So Gundam Unicorn, if there is no Unicorn, can Char/Full Frontal

>>14895515

By all accounts, the Neo Zeong had the Unicorn beaten, but Banana used some newtype space voodoo to magically pull a victory.

>>14895515

Probably. It's more broken than the Unicorn or Banshee in my opinion, since they need special circumstances to use a psycofield, where the Neo Zeong appears to be able to use one at will.

>>14895542
Full Frontal lost the argument so he gave up.

Imagine if instead of talking, Full Frontal just tentacle rapes the Unicorn AND Banshee with its wires.

That would be a sight.

Full Frontal lost because he realized Unicorn is shit and lost the will to live.

>>14895542
Banana used the Sekiha Sore Demo Tenkyouken.

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>>14895595
>Banana used the Sekiha Sore Demo Tenkyouken.
I facepalmed because I had just gotten over the disaster that was Build Fighters' Second Half
He literally build knuckled the thing, but at least it was pretty on-sided, as opposed to that punch-for-punch matching garbo

Depends entirely on if the blue haired Yoda with a girl's name decides to fight him.

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>>14895515
lmao get fucked earth sphere cunts

>>14895771
Not implying glorious Zeon-Jovian empire!

Did anaheim really build the Neo Zeong?

For what reason?

>>14895805
Zeon gold.

>>14895812
But where do they have that gold?

The Neo Zeong shit on both masterpiece MS, Unicorn and Banshee.

>>14895816
From the colonies.

>>14895558
That was so laughably fucking stupid,

>Banana there is nothing in this world to believe in

>no there is hope that there is which is cool

>oh ok

>disintegrates...

>>14895852

It's say it's slightly more complex that that. Frontal showed Banana the most nihilistic concept and imagery he could believing that it would sway him and Banana didn't give in to the same apathy that he had taken on so he let Banana go because the best argument he could summon made no dent on his opponent and he had no idea what to do. At which point Lalah came by and just told him to give up and let the next generation(s) handle it. So he did.

The final battle of Unicorn was a metaphor for an internet debate. Full Frontal is the guy with an actual argument and proof, and Banagher is that one shitposter who denies everything no matter what.

The true lesson of Unicorn is to learn to let go and accept you're just talking to a wall. Full Frontal is rewarded when he gives up, because he gets a free pass out of the show.

>>14895949

The only proof he offered Banana was to deal in extremes (time will eventually end therefor nihilism) and his argument was only an extension of that view. His extremism was no better than Banagher's optimism.

>>14895908
It's still fucking stupid.

>>14895955
He literally took Banagher through a magic carpet ride through time. It was all explicitly to point out that Banagher's argument that humanity would find a way was completely full of shit, because they wouldn't.

Banagher's argument is that EVEN SO you may as well have hope anyways, which is such a non-argument you can't even debate that.

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>>14895515
what if i tell you that one million GM is good in Kung Fu?

>>14895959

His argument is that because time will end there's no point in anything and so you can do anything you want. He's using a complete extreme to nullify any kind of reason and it too is a complete non-argument that's full of shit and you can't really debate against. Both arguments are stupid, but if he's going to engage in such shitty behavior he got the kind of debate he deserves frankly.

>>14895771
I never got the deal with Jupiter.

Is there a Gundam series located in the Jupiter sphere?

>>14896062
Sirroco was from Jupiter, and Crossbone Gundam primarily takes place in Jupiter.

Jovians are....kinda massive dicks.

>>14896084
that's it?
Maybe I really have to read Crossbone gundam for once.

>>14896016
Full Frontal took Banagher literally Beyond The Time because he wanted to show there was only darkness and void. He wasn't arguing for anarchy, he was trying to tell Banagher his ideal was wrong because the entire point of both Full Frontal and Banagher as characters is that they were walking vessels for their ideals. The final argument was a contest of who could stay true to their ideal the hardest, and that ends up being Banagher because no matter how much evidence Full Frontal shoved down the kid's throat he refused to budge.

The fact that this sorta parallels a classic internet debate, complete with it only ending because one guy rage quit, is an amusing coincidence.

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>>14895908
See, this is why you don't use nihilism as an argument. Far better it is to just cut straight to an appeal to force.

>>14896113

And the reason he wanted to show that there is only darkness and void was to justify his own plan that he knew was likely to alienate one faction, result in a war and end up killing a lot of people to Banagher. Who didn't buy it as justification or offer any meaningful return debate, because honestly, when your opponent is using the heat death of the universe as justification for nihilism what kind of argument can you use beyond either rage quitting yourself or just telling him to stuff it because his argument is pretty stupid and has no real merit?

>>14895908
i love that scene

>>14895949
i think you got things the other way around but it's okay you're retarded

Yo, can we get back to talking about how Neo Zeong can pretty much destroysthe EFSF?

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>>14896113
>>14896127

See, it would've been fine if Banagher had countered with an argument of his own, since it seems like they were trying for it. But nah, gotta just have the protagonist win.

>"The most terrifying fact about the universe is not that it is hostile but that it is indifferent; but if we can come to terms with this indifference and accept the challenges of life within the boundaries of death — however mutable man may be able to make them — our existence as a species can have genuine meaning and fulfillment. However vast the darkness, we must supply our own light."

>>14896127
Is this like, some kind of joke where you're pretending to be Banagher? You can repeat yourself as much as you want, but you're not going to magically change Full Frontal and Banagher's dynamic.

The final battle had jack shit to do with the Sleeve's economic plan. It was all about the worth of possibility because, and I know the show is very subtle about this and you might not have picked it up, Unicorn is all about possibility and potential.

>>14896147
Banagher argument is perfectly valid.

Even if there is nothing, there is hope, thus it is perfectly viable for you to care.

>>14896140
Well the thing is, you have Shamblo. Shamblo BTFO of the Feds at Dakar, none of the GMs could touch it and it just massacred ranks and ranks and ranks of them.

So if we hold that Neo Zeong is even bigger a bad than Shamblo, can wreck shit like Jegans and Silver Bullet with ease, can pretty much stomp Unicorns too, then yeah, what are piddly little GMs and ReZELs gonna do to it?

>>14896140
Nah.

>>14896148

Why do you think Frontal was trying to convince Banagher of the worthlessness of possibility out of interest? Or do you honestly think they were just arguing about it in a void and it had no relevance to the plans or motives of the two individuals involved?

Banagher is deep as fuck and you niggers are slowly understanding it now.

It's literally about determinism vs free-will.

Unicorn's biggest plothole:

Why didn't Full Frontal just show his cards and kill the EFSF with the Neo Zeong in the beginning?

He would have Marida on his side.

>>14896195
Did you just skip every other interaction between Full Frontal and Banagher or something?

FF explicitly points out Banagher is similar to him. He takes an interest in the kid because he recognizes they're both walking vessels for ideals, and the reason he doesn't just kill him right away at the end is because he sincerely wants to convince Banagher that his ideal is wrong.

Banagher doesn't even really have an opinion on the Co-Prosperity thing, that was all Mineva.

All I'm getting from this conversation is that you somehow failed to understand Unicorn. Which is kind of impressive, really.

>>14896248

All I'm getting is that you think that their ideals are unrelated to their motivations or plans.

>>14896255
Here's your (you).

>>14896255
Quite on the contrary.

- Full Frontal: the present is bleak, I have to force it to become better!
- Banagher: the present is bleak, SORE DEMO I hope it can get better
That's the crux of it.

I swear to god nobody should complain about Unicorn being nonsensical until you at least explain why.

It's a shitload clearer and grounded than Tomino works.

>>14896275

Full Frontal isn't arguing the present is bleak, therefore force though - he's arguing the unimaginably distant future will be bleak therefore nothing done to make things better or the existence of the possibility of betterment has any has meaning. To which Banagher just shakes his had and goes "Nuh-uh" and it's over, because again, if someone is using the heat death of the universe as an example there's really not much else you can do.

>>14896301
The present for Full Frontal IS bleak because without his intervention, Zeonism will die.

>>14896312

Full Frontal doesn't even really care about it and is just doing it because it's expected and he thinks it's a utilitarian plan. And arguing the future is bleak does nothing to prove the present needs force regardless.

>>14896333
Full Frontal/Char cares about the future of spacenoid and fully believes in Zeonism (i.e. NT evolution of human race).

>And arguing the future is bleak does nothing to prove the present needs force regardless.
His point is if you don't force it, the future IS bleak.

>>14896341

Full Frontal is a different man from Char regardless of his origins, which is why his plan is so different. Char cares, Frontal doesn't. And using the heat death of the universe doesn't prove the future is bleak only if not forced since no amount of forcing is going to stop it. If he was using that to prove his point he's even dumber than I was suggesting.

>>14896360
Frontal has Char's soul, he's doing the same shit Char did but in a smarter way.

>And using the heat death of the universe doesn't prove the future is bleak only if not forced since no amount of forcing is going to stop it.
Full Frontal was losing hopes in humanity, the heat death of universe remains a world of determinism, no hopes.

>>14896371

He might have his soul, but there's a reason he acts so different to Char and that the plot even makes sure to point it out. He's not just going after the same goal a different way, he's a different person. And while the heat death might represent determinism, it certainly isn't a good argument for the need for force or how bleak the present is.

SOMEWHERE OVER THE RAINBOW

>>14896385
He acts differently than Char because Char has tried this shit once but not successfully, so Frontall tries again, using a more political subversive plan.

>And while the heat death might represent determinism, it certainly isn't a good argument for the need for force or how bleak the present is.
It shows how Frontal has lost hopes in humanity's possibility to change, so he has to do shit himself, even despite humanity's wish.

>>14895515

Designer of Neo Zeong says it was simply created to emphasis over-exaggeration. That FF was just using it to overwhelm Banagher psychologically first with sheer intimidation rather than put up any fight with it. (furthering the idea that FF is a tired soul in the anime version)

>>14896461
But it's a very strong MA, no?

One that can take on the EF space fleet singlehandlely.

>>14896107
They are also on a whole different technological league than normal zeon, their one time prototype ms are absurd, he also forgot how they are also featured in Victory gundam and how they introduced a planetary mind rape machine

>>14896122
The thing is that FF was a nihilist wannabe, if you actually see the nihilistic teachins they would show that FF was just a huge baby, its all about realizing there is no greater meaning to your actions and universe and realizing that you give your own actions meanings not something else

>>14896147
What fucking argument could Banana show? The "argument" Full Frontal showed him that it was meaningless to do anything because in the end everything will stop existing is pure unfiltered bullshit, if it doesn't matter a single fuck what either of does why does he care that Banana is optimist about the future? Why does it matter what Full Frontal wants then? In the end nothing will matter so why care?

This is not an argument, this is a kid bitching and moaning when he has no argument

>>14896490
FF is not a nihilist, he's a determinist i.e. things only have one outcome.

>>14896312
>The present for Full Frontal IS bleak because without his intervention, Zeonism will die.
Is this supposed to be bad? So because one faction of literal nutjobs is goign to be finally extinguished Banagher should give a shit about and stop? Zeonism is the biggest reason for why spacenoids keep getting fucked over sicne they funnel whatever money they have to creating more retarded mobile suits/armor instead of using it for infraestructure

>>14896502
Because that future is actually not set in stones.

There's always hopes.

>>14896516
It's bad for Frontal/Char because when Zeonism dies, the concept of NT/evolution of humanity will also die, and souls will forever be bound to gravity.

>>14896522
And isn't that precisely what Banana keep saying? That he had hope that humanity would lead itself to a better future while FF kept screaming about how it was useless and how he had to take control of everything and force humanity down a path he and only he could was the right one?

>>14896530
Yes, it's free-will vs determinism.

This isn't even subtle.

>>14896525
Which is retarded, the only thing that will die is the idea that a evolutionary step should be worshipped because if newtypes really are the future then all of humanity will become newtypes.

In the end Char and his fat clone had gigantic messiah complex believing they were the only ones who could see how humanity would/should evolve while Banana simply believed that humanity had to decide for themselves what they wanted

>>14896407

Yea no, not really. He's not just trying a new plan because the old one failed. There's a reason Mineva calls him different to Char and it's not to highlight that he's totally the same minus the plan. And the heat death might represent him, but again there's really very little argument possible when someone uses such an extreme to represent their view.

>>14896542
No, if everybody believe in NT theory, humanity would advance into the next stage.

The death of NT theory means nobody in NT anymore, and even newtype does not realize they are NT.

This is why in late UC, things calm down but do not change.

>>14896481

They don't feature very much in Victory though. They exist, but mostly as background.

>>14896545
Mineva calls him out for being a program imitating Char, but Frontal himself states that he does not know if he does it because he's programmed to do it, or because he has truly become Char.

>And the heat death might represent him, but again there's really very little argument possible when someone uses such an extreme to represent their view.
It's just Char being very, very disappointed in humanity that it refuses to change. Banagher just gives him hopes again.

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>>14896547
Nigger what, do you think evolution stops just because you don't believe in it? What the flying fuck

>>14896558
If nobody realizes they have evolved, evolution might as well not exist.

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>>14896570
They have fucking telepathy, jesus fuck, have you even finished high school? This thread took a turn for the deeply disturbing once you started posting

>>14896584
Actually, most Newtype do not awaken in normal condition.

Seabook took quite awhile until somebody says that he might be a NT.

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>>14896570
I hope you're just fucking with us

>>14896599
It's true though.

if a NT does not realize he's a NT, he's a normal human.

>>14896556

Mineva also calls him out for being different from Char when he talks about the Sides banding together - that Frontal doesn't have Char's passion or intensity. I'm pretty sure in the final episode he's even more frank, when he says he's no longer a vessel. Banagher don't so much give him hope as just wear him out since he had no other argument, but neither had a particularly good argument in the first place. Frontal jumped straight to the greatest extreme possible and Banagher just stone walled that. It worked, but neither was great argument, which as the only point I made initially.

>>14896593
How do I know if I'm a Newtype?

>all these people deny the power of UNDERSTANDING

>>14896470

EF would always have some secret super prototype gundam though, it's their shtick.

>>14896606
This dialog when he's no more a vessel means he has become Char thoroughly, just a shitload more mature Char since he learned from CCA.

But this Char has also given up hopes on humanity changing by themselves, so he's different than CCA's Char.

>Banagher don't so much give him hope as just wear him out since he had no other argument,
On the contrary, the warm he felt even in the dead heat of the universe convinces him to have hopes for the future again.
>Frontal jumped straight to the greatest extreme possible and Banagher just stone walled that. It worked, but neither was great argument, which as the only point I made initially.
It worked because even his argument is lost the moment he has doubts i.e. hopes for a better future.

>>14896610
When you start to feel space flowing through you, and acknowledging it.

>>14896661

So what you're saying is that Banagher gave a hood argument and he didn't rage quit, but instead agreed and left? Well that's almost the complete opposite of what I started arguing against.

>>14896685
There was no rage when Char left Unicorn.

It was acceptance, to let the kids have their way.

What I wanted:

>Gurren Lagann Kamina (banana) duking it out with Anti-Spiral Char in a grand finale of Full Armor Unicorn vs Neo Zeong

What I got:

> philosophical dribble

I don't care what they were arguing about. It didn't fit with the rest of the OVA. It was hamfisted, and it killed the pace of the final episode. And it was a completely let down thematically.

>>14896786
>>14896782
Seriously, what the fuck is your problem with TTGL that you need to false flag on every thread?

>>14896786
>I don't care what they were arguing about. It didn't fit with the rest of the OVA. It was hamfisted, and it killed the pace of the final episode. And it was a completely let down thematically.
not only that, but Laplace box was a bummer

>>14896786
>show is full of philosophic discourse
>often to the point of detriment to those here for the robot porn

>AND SOMEHOW HAVING THE ENDING BE MORE OF IT ISN'T FITTING WITH THE TOTALITY OF THE OVA

OK, at what point do we all stop pretending to be retarded? Is it after actual retards move in and think they're among like minded individuals?

This has gone on too far, can you all please shut the fuck up instead of saying stupid bullshit?

>>14897051

An absolute bummer. They were better off letting it stay hidden.

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I swear, this corrupt bitch reminds me of somebody...

> Filename

>>14896661
Is it the same with saying that bootleg chinese Gundam become a Gundam thoroughly?

>>14897064
He is just an underage who can't appreciate adult discussion.

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>>14897145

>>14895542
Frontal never wanted to kill banagher. He could have if he wanted to.

Char lost the optimism he saw in Kamille, and later lost his optimism when the world didn't change after the axis shock.

Char's restless soul, devoid of hope, clings to the Universe in Frontal's body. That hope is reignited when he meets banagher, but the jaded Frontal seeks to crush his own hope by exposing banagher as a false hope. He wants to legitimize his own hopelessness.

This fails when he tests banagher. realizing his soul no longer has a reason to linger, he finally moves on.

While kind of deep the story isn't as confusing as you apes make it out to be. You're the same dumb rucks that thought that 00 movie was confusing.

>>14897614
I always saw it in terms of allegory. Frontal being a voice for the masses clamoring for more Zeek-vs-Feddie UC even if that voice doesn't necessarily want it, and Banagher representing the desire to move on from that and embrace a future for Gundam unbounded by the UC framework.

>>14897145
>>14897585
UC predicts Trump victory?

>>14895515
so where did they get that thing in the first place, and why didn't they use it from the beginning?

Is there any actual difference between OVA and TV or it's just the same thing?

>>14898904
>UC predicts Trump victory?

He's from 00S2. The A laws commander fyi and not Alberto from UC.

>>14899772

It is the same thing. No new scenes. Don't bother watching it if you were hoping for that. Bandai/Sunrise just milking the cow.

>>14899148
Anaheim built in secret.