Why do people pretend Thunderbolt is any good when it is just

I don't think I've ever seen "sappy" as a description of Thunderbolt.

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>>14743633
>sappy shit that refuses to take any sides

Pretty sure that's the entirety of Gundam you're describing there guy.

>>14743633
The problem with your opinion is that you assume that narrative has to take a side and that you don't seem to know what the word sappy means and/or think it's a prominent adjective for describing Thunderbolt.

Why does it have to take a side?

>>14744464
Except for G. Still sappy in some other ways, but it does take a side.

>>14743633
I certainly don't see anything wrong with it. Amazing Jazz soundtrack, cool fights and mechs. The only thing that seems a tad bit lackluster is the story but not for the reasons you seem to think it's lacking.

>>14743633
I'm legitmately curious about how one can seriously describe Thunderbolt as 'sappy'.

>>14744513
That kind of rivalry story relies on both main characters heavily, so I can see that if you, for example, think that Darryl is boring, the story would suffer for it.

>>14743633
Feddies being triggered at just the idea that Zeon might not be that bad is really entertaining.

>>14743633
>sappy
The anime adaption is utter shit on that aspect (and many others), but the manga actually managed it pretty well.

>>14743633
>that refuses to take any sides
But /m/ told me it is zeonwank.

>>14745864
Only the anime, the manga is actually quite on the feddies side.

>>14745657
Reminder that Side 4 had no strategic value whatsoever and Zeon still destroyed it.

That christmas flashback to the amputated arm was still the most well made scene in any gundam show to date.

>>14743633
Because
>muh edgy war drama
Same crows that likes IBO without shame.

>>14745990
Thunderbolt actually does War Drama better than most anime though. Rather than giving us long melodramatic monologues, they just show the gritty confilict as it is and let it speak for itself.

>>14746176
Babbies happily taking pictures with each other and celebrating was pretty hamfisted though.

>>14743633
>refuses to take any sides
I'm not sure what you mean by this or if it's meant to be a point against it.

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>>14746287
If you saw a Gundam you would totally take a selfie of it.

>>14743633
Maybe some people just like well animated mecha action and don't need to pretend they're smart because of the politics in a fucking cartoon.

>>14744472
Humanizing genocides isn't really ideal.

>>14748308
you obviously are most comfy thinking in binaries

>>14744480
zeon is barely relevent in current thunderbolt though.

>>14744480
>Because the US influence is waning, modern writers can afford to side with Zeon now.

So much this. The Globalism apologism is the single worst thing about Gundam. America is the vampire of the world.

>>14746176
>they just show the gritty confilict as it is and let it speak for itself.

Yeah, handicaps considered useless garbage made to fight while testing their bullshit sci-fi device for which they cut limbs off of the handicaps is not over the top edge.
And federation sending teenagers for no fucking reason. Wait, it's newtype magic shit.

So gritty !

>>14749090
By that time cyborg power armored soldiers will be common scene.
At least thost implants wouldn't be a
>fucking
>tube
This is why I hate anime only fags. Had they read the manga, it was all about that device.
So much shit happens in OYW because gotta have to farm money from
Zeek fags.

>>14743633
>Why do people pretend Thunderbolt is any good when it is just sappy shit that refuses to take any sides?

Thunderbolt is nicely animated. But it starts and ends there. It's just a godly technical demo. In terms of character and story well people complain about Macross Delta (rightly so) but they've never ever seen Thunderbolt. It's a thousand times worse than Delta. At this point I have simply lost faith the Japanese can tell a coherent story in anime.

>>14749094
>Gundam is about a humanity-wide total war situation where over half of humanity dies to brutal gassing and orbital bombardment

I guess 0079 is too "edgy" for you too? Fuck, how about you stop calling things "edgy" any time it's dark as if that's actually a valid criticism of it?

The Feddies are sending in kids because literally every military age person is fighting in the OYW. And they are running out of people. 50% of the remaining Federation fleet gets wiped out just before A Baoa Qu. They don't have tons of people to spare.

>>14743633
Thunderbolt is a triumph of animation, sound, and direction in a way that most anime -- let alone most Gundam -- typically fails.

Is it full of puerile attempts at philosophizing via lengthy expository bullshit and borderline autistic dialogue? No; and this is another triumph. The autism is kept to a minimum. But the most autistic, shit-tasted members of this board are of course going to have a problem with that.

The shitposters that hated TB are the people that need imaginary girlfriends in all of their animes.

>>14749166
>>14749094
yep, and on the Zeon side they're losing the war and have a well-known pilot shortage at this point. hence the living dead unit and desperate attempts at any kind of tech breakthrough that might give them an advantage.

>>14749105
>>14749108
We can't be content to shit on Thunderbolt so now we have to bring in Delta? Fucking enjoy something you shits

>>14749181
Too bad it's story and characters are one note and pretty shit. Thunderbolt is just well produced because Sunrise money. It contributes nothing past that.

>>14749209
Way to explain why it's so one note for me. That's all it is. There is no other interesting character motivation. It's just boring.

>>14749232
>I guess, people who are anti-military will never understand.
Stop watching anime Clint Eastwood. I thought you hated the japs?

>>14749232
>I want to watch a show about one fucking thing ever
I do understand, you have the attention span of a flea. A show that only has one aspect to it is garbage, full stop.

>>14749243
>implying Clint doesn't have a deep respect for everyone except politicians

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>>14749181
>Thunderbolt is a triumph of animation
I've not seen any "epic animation" gifs that were great. The best was that 1st person Zaku clip and even then it was mainly the storyboarding that made it work, not the animation.

I just went to Sakugabooru and clicked two random clips and it's the same choppy average stuff I've seen posted and linked here:

https://sakuga.yshi.org/post/show/22338/animated-artist_unknown-effects-fighting-gundam-it

https://sakuga.yshi.org/post/show/22336/animated-artist_unknown-beams-effects-fighting-gun

It's not even particularly fluid. The detail and shading is over-digitized stuff that overuses the fuck out of gradients and the color scheme looks "dark and gritty" in the laziest and simplest way.

And holy fuck what is it with how the effects are rendered?

>>14749277
Yeah Unicorn looks better in everyway, but don't tell that to Thunderboltfags

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>>14749277
It's like they're drawing the beams and whatnot flatly and then deforming them digitally to feign perspective, which looks stretched out and ugly and obviously artificial. Who does this? Why not just draw it normally?

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>>14749278
Unicorn is obviously better but there's plenty of digital era stuff that's also better, arguably better than both.

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>>14749293
I know this is art and not animation, but compare the shading here...

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>>14749301
...to the shading here. The mix of colors and gradients in the Thunderbolt clip makes the robot look like it's made out of semi-transparent plastic or something, it's such a bizarre type of texture to give to a robot and so much anime does it. It was ugly when 00 did it too.
>>14749297
>>14749297
>>14749300
>digital era
I meant PRE-digital era, sorry.
>In all seriousness, what's so ugly about that?
It's awkward for the same reason that Flash-tweened animation can be awkward. Drawing something by hand and then scaling and deforming it artificially with a digital tool is not only obviously unnatural (look at the bottom of the beam here >>14749289) it's also superfluous. I seriously don't get why you'd do it to begin with. You can draw detailed robots in perspective but you can't draw beams in perspective? The fuck?

>>14749300
>>14749314
He's desperately trying to justify why an anime that looks high quality to basically everybody that watches it is, if put under the scrutinizing eye of a TRUE XPERT, WELL IT'S ACTUALLY SHIT I GUESS GUYS YOU'RE RIGHT, IT LOOKS LIKE SHIT BECAUSE OF THE PIXELS

>>14749308
>it's a "listen to /m/ try to sound smart about animation" episode

>>14749094
>And federation sending teenagers for no reason
>no reason

Almost all the adults are dead from the one week war. Both sides were forced to employ women and children by the time the war was drawing to a close.

>>14749314
>>14749320
I explained in detail why it's awkward: it looks artificially stretched out instead of being drawn in perspective by hand.

Now it's now your turn to explain why stretching things out like that to feign perspctive is somehow superior to drawing the effects in perspective by hand from the get-go: https://sakuga.yshi.org/post/show/17591/animated-beams-effects-gundam-liquid-mecha-mitsuo_

And you don't have to be an expert to tell that >>14749293 looks more fluid, weighty and three-dimensional than >>14749308

Thunderbolt is just eyecandy, it looks good but says nothing.
Which I guess is a step above other entries that don´t look good and are almost ofensive in how shallow they are.

>>14749322
>nobody understands it.
On the contrary both normies and professional animators will tell you they're well animated. Only a loud minority of /m/ contrarians will say they look horrible.

I'd love to meet a professional animator who does good work and seriously thinks the "epic" Thunderbolt webms look better than this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D-Z6vcNX4_E

>>14749346
The circus scene was kinda meh though, the zaku just shrugged them off but not in a particularly cool or clever way.

>>14749346

Beams aren't light, they are excited particles. They're more like plasma than a laser.

So it's either
>it's bad but at least it looks good
or
>it's bad AND it looks bad

Either way it doesn't bode well for Thunderbolt.

>little dots with colored trailer following them and blasts when they collide
>good animation
Blunderbolt was a mistake

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>>14749346
>Beam doesn't have weight, you fucking retard, it's light.

Good thing I was talking about the robots and not the beams when I said weight.

>the actual Psycho Zaku vs FA Gundam fight is superior in actual choreography and armanent.

Irrelevant. I think the first Joe vs Rikishi prison boxing match in Ashita no Joe is great in terms of plot context, storyboarding and art direction but I won't pretend the drawings and animation are technically impressive.

If you're bored of the MS Team clip I'll link this instead:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NIJR69hZiN4

Go ahead and explain how Thunderbolt is animated better and how this is cancerous TTGLshit or whatever.

>Sappy shit that refuses to take any sides

Take Zeon's side, it's bad. Take the Federation's side, it's bad as well.

Refuse to take any sides? Still bad. What's with fags like OP never being happy?

>>14749366
>Unlike 08th MS and 0083, which are bad but look good.
This is why everyone hates Thunderboltfags

>>14749373
Half the series is awful to be honest.
I think most people have an issue with that, that second half ruined it.

>>14749366
>technical shortcuts are good
>actual effort and technical proficiency are bad
You fucking what
Goddamn thunderfags

>>14749378
Are you quoting the wrong post?

>>14749377
We are speaking solely about the artwork and animation you insipid fuckstain. Thunderbolt uses objectively awful techniques yet somehow manages to convince people that the overall presentation 'looks good' while you compare it favorably to a pair of series made at the very peak of painted cell artwork.

Fucking no.

>>14749385
>0083
>not fucking incredible choreography

>>14749383
I'm not the guy you are arguing with, anon.
08th MS team is just not a good series no matter how good it looks.
Same goes for Thunderbolt, they are both bad.

>>14749383
I guess you could say nothing is "objective". I mean technically you could also say Twilight is a better book than Moby Dick but it still feels wrong.

But really I don't understand how >>14749277 is justifiable; the shots look like little bits of paper floating in the air. it's even noticeable in motion because the animation is not very fluid.

>>14749382
That's because the bullets are being deflected.

If that's your entire reasoning then lmao.

Anime is not a serious medium.
You are allowed to like things just because they look cool. In that aspect, Thunderbolt is amazing.

>>14749392
Aren't you the guy who linked the Black Getter introduction scene and said it has "good choreography" because it has ebin gore

>>14749392
And not the ENTIRE Dra-C sequence? The fuck outta here.

>>14749399
>Anime is not a serious medium.
Who gets to decide what is and isn't a "serious medium"?

>>14749396
Techniques are objective. Actually drawing an effect is always better than drawing a little thing and applying a transform to it. It's like actually torquing a bolt and applying loctite instead of just yanking on the breaker bar. It's lazy.

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Look at that kid's fucked up face at the beginning. It's one single character that's the focus of the scene.

Man this is comical, what happened that got all the critics out of the woodwork to attack yet another gendum animation?

>>14749415
A Dra-C tries to slice and dice Kou.

Kou disappears and reappears behind the Dra-C and goes "Nothing personal, kiddo." Then he draws his Beam katana.

>>14749429
The TTGL fandom was a mistake.

>>14749414
Well one has objective real-world impact.

I'm agreeing with you and I'm the one who complained about the digital deformation to begin with, I was just countering a "well it's subjective" statement before someone else said it. There's a reason I said "technically".
>>14749408
The mecha deflected the tiny handful of bullets it took.

Regardless that's a really fucking silly reason to dismiss such a well executed scene. The video is like 5 minutes.
>It's detail like that that makes your show look straight out of the 60s.
Yeah man, fuck 60s anime animation: https://sakuga.yshi.org/post/show/23146/akira_daikubara-animals-animated-character_acting-

>>14749428
No he doesnt. He charges it and deflects the beam saber with his beam bayonet.

>>14749438
You can accept the metal robot deflecting the bullets but not the metal wall?
>Do you know physics?
Ironic since you never take it into account when judging animation and in fact dismissed an entire article about it by Hayao Miyazaki when I copypasted it because it was defending "snappy" Kanada animation and that's wrong.

I'm not the guy getting all autistic over animation and shit, but Thunderbolt does not look that amazing. I don't understand the hubbub over this show, it's just another UC Gundam OVA for the pile.

If I wanted gritty one year war stuff, I'd just play Gihren's Greed, where there isn't a Johnny Ridden knockoff Zaku with a space shuttle jammed on the back

>>14749449
I suspect Thunderbolt's animation will get less idealized over time. Back in 2009 people (maybe even the same guy) called me a cancerous faggot and said I deserve to be "shot in the fucking head" for saying GaoGaiGar episode 1 has better animation than Shin Mazinger episode 1. Their argument was that GaoGaiGar ep 1 has a 1 second panning sequence of the kids reacting to the fight, and that somehow dismisses the entire thing. Now Shin Mazinger is generally accepted to not be very well animated overall.

People also defended to the death the pacing and direction in Heroman once again saying it's "better than cancerous ADHD TTGLshit" (these guys always bring up Gurren). Now anyone barely even brings up Heroman at all let alone as a shining example of atmospheric pacing.

>>14749456
>If it's snappy, it's shit, stick to fucking comedy.
So it's good in comedy but bad in non-comedy?

And to think there once was a time when you needed to be, at least, 18 to post on 4chan.

>>14749461
I dunno the story didn't grab me all that much. It wasn't downright dumb like 0083's turned out to be, but it also doesn't look as good as 0083. A stiff rivalry plot that doesn't shit the bed is is still stiff.

I guess it all comes down to opinions, but I don't think any Gundam OVA is anywhere near as good overall as 0079 or Victory

>>14749466
The fuck you even talking about

>>14749476
This is like saying Giant Robo is impossible to take seriously because it has cartoony artwork and would've been better if the characters were in DYRL style or something https://sakuga.yshi.org/post/show/9192/animated-character_acting-debris-effects-giant_rob

Note that they're actually talking about pretty serious shit in this scene.

>>14749486
>>14749475
Also, you're talking about "people" (argumentum ad populum). Which doesn't even apply here because general audiences enjoy the "snappy" action scenes you're shitting on.

>>14749489
That is completely irrelevant to what I said. Re-read my post.

>>14749498
So you're backpedaling over using "people" as an argument. This is the first time you've admitted to beging wrong; you're growing up, anon! Baby steps.

>>14749504
>I have never said you cannot take cartoony-style show seriously.
So cartoony art works in serious shows but snappy animation doesn't? That's a very specific preference that has little relevance to anything.

GL's designs are "comedic" but this guy isn't? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vGSnmjYRVh8#t=3m7s

>And even then GR actually tries to add a lot of detail to classic Yokoyama designs
I wouldn't say that "detail" is what makes the character art superior to Yokoyama's and it certainly doesn't try to add "a lot" of it.

Do you feel that detail equals quality? If so GR's character art is hardly good.

>>14749506
Outside anon here, um, can I say that I think they both look good?

Jesus Christ this thread is so ridiculous now

>>14749532
>can I say that I think they both look good?
Even the once common opinion that "GL's writing was nothing special but it looked good" is considered haram now and makes you tasteless underage normie cancer who doesn't belong on /m/ so no

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>>14749539
I-I'm just scared that people will be mad at me, anon-senpai. Everybody in here is so mad!

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>>14749533
By that logic, Rob Liefeld does better human drawings than Giant Robo.

Saying Giant Robo looks good because of "detail" isn't giving it credit for what it actually does well. The art and animation are drawn very skillfully and creatively; they look believably three-dimensional, stylize real-world anatomy very well and have many instances of original scene-specific body language instead of resorting to cliche anime faces. All these things have more impact than "durrhurr I draw a lot of lines"

>>14749551
>>14749533
Your praise of Giant Robo sounds like Otaking trying to justify liking Birth years ago despite it going against his stated standards

>>14743633
>refuses to take any sides?

>Shows Zeon destroying Side 4 at the start of the war.
>Shows Gihren ordering the Living Dead Division to stay in Side 4 and die fighting.
>Shows Zeon scientists using crippled soldiers as lab rats.

Just because the villains aren't portrayed as one-dimensional mustache twirlers like in shittier Gundam shows (Zeta/ZZ) doesn't mean it's not taking a side.

See >>14749181

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>>14749556
You learned this behavior from /pol/? Holy shit hahahahaha.
>>14749568
>Details are not actually about drawing a lot of lines. It's about details.
So you're talking about fidelity. Well, in 2D, attempting to add more fidelty to a drawing means drawing more lines.

This ideal of more fidelity equals better is what leads to everything in American CG cartoons having bizarre over-detailed textures.

>>14743633

People love it because UC is their god and they must continue to consume gunpla

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>>14749590
>>14749568
Also Giant Robo tones down detail for motion very often.
>>14749574
>because its mech design is very detailed
And the characters are less detailed than a lot of old mecha OVAs considered classics like DYRL or Gunbuster. I'd say they're far better though.

The robots are also far less detailed than say the mechs in Five Star Stories. But that doesn't make them less good (I'd say both FSS and Giant Robo's mechs are great in different ways).

>>14749589
I'm too lazy to find the "I've killed Millons of Minevas" page from The Origin, but yeah, that.

The entire movie takes place in the ruins of space colonies Zeon destroyed at the start of the war. The Feddies are made up of vengeful refugees.

>>14749595
>Genocyber for example is flat as shit, no shading or lines
This is crazy talk, you literally can't have detail without lines. I dismissed your claims in the last thread so I won't bother again >>14736425

You enjoy some great looking things like Giant Robo and Genocyber but your praise of them is extremely bizarre and nonsensical. It's like your brain a chaotic mess and just randomly applies a good or bad status to things.

>>14749105
It was written by the Dog Life Dog Style guy, so a garbage story full of gore was to be expected.

tbqh fammalians I don't think Thunderbolt needs to be as good as 08th MS Team, animation-wise, in order to be considered as having good animation. Nobody ever said it has the best animation of a Gundam ever. Unfortunately that era is dead and we aren't going back unless somebody Makes Japan Great Again.

In a world where the fucking bankrolled Origin movies are using shamelessly 3D animation and almost every other /m/ show is being animated in godawful 3D, Thunderbolt was able to make something that looks quite good and still skirts on economical. They had a good budget but obviously it was constrained if they're putting 3D shit in there. Yet when I first watched it I didn't even notice which parts were 3D and neither would the vast majority of audience members.

>>14749209

If I were someone asking you for an elevator pitch and you gave that to me, I'd be snoozing against the wall halfway through the sentence.

Thunderbolt is flash and panache - almost no real plot to speak of, very little in the way of actual characterization to speak of for anyone who isn't Darryl and Io - and some of Io's moments in the manga get cut outright in the OVA - and very nice action, most of the time. That's the best you can say for it, really.

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>>14749613
>"The robots in Giant Robo are actually no less detailed than FFS."
>showed a piece of promotional art
>now showing a panning still shot
Here, comparing two shots in the middle of with actual motion.
>About the character designs, I would say this comes down to the fact the artist tries to imitate Yokoyama's style.
It doesn't matter what it comes down to it just shows your 'detail = quality' standard is silly since they're still very good designs despite not being very detailed compared to other classic mecha OVAs.

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>>14749637
I haven't posted in this thread but I saw your post and wanted to chime in.

There is no greater level of detail in the shot your show of FSS. They use the same number of shades and each have lots little panel lining on the robots. However, the background and foreground in GR is more detailed at least in that shot.

>>14749639

I'm sure I would, with a premise as mindless as anything made by Harmony Korine.

Don't fanboy too hard over it or you'll be like a certain other sect of supporters on this board, who create falsehoods to praise and champion so as to give their favorite work artificial depth.

>>14749635
Lol holy shit

That's a fan trace.
>Imaishi tries to add visible lines and shading and shit, but the characters aren't really detailed. The mech looks like a cardboard cutout.
That's about solid three-dimensional drawing, not detail.

You can't even use words right, that's why you say silly shit like
>Genocyber for example is flat as shit, no shading or lines, still a shitload of details in its character and mechanical designs.

>>14749645
>They use the same number of shades

>>14749642
>But both are actually hugely detailed?
I'm talking about the humans in Giant Robo

>>14749654

Well, all I'm saying is to not invent fabrications.

Like claiming Thunderbolt is deeply rooted in gripping political ideologies when it's about as 'political' as Vermin Supreme.

>>14749672
They still lack detail compared to the humans in other mecha OVAs of the time and yet they're better than a lot of them

At least if you personally think say Gunbuster or DYRL are better in terms of designs I'd have to disagree.

>>14749687
This is like trying to explain the color of the sky to someone who was born blind

>>14749692
>What you really mean is they lack lines and shading, and those aren't details.
Define detail

>>14749696
I disagree that shading doesn't add detail but regardless >>14749558 pays more attention to specific small things than GR's human faces (or even Giant Robo's face) and yet it sucks dick

>>14749707
was meant for >>14749696

>>14749714
He draws nostrils and outlines cheekbones and the philtrum and other shit like that. Objectively more detailed than GR but still worse.
>Then you might say that certain artsyle is shit
You can go deeper than that without generalizing "style" in a vague way. Your standard is flawed as hell and I just proved it.

>>14743633
I call it blunderdolt.

>>14749728
>So I cannot even say style anymore?
Missing the point
>Maybe because it's drawn badly?
Exactly

>>14749737
You can have whatever opinions on styles you want as long as you stop saying shit like "it is all about details" >>14736430

>>14749746
>You think this is somehow impossible.
No I don't

I'm gonna go to sleep

>>14749751
I think it's mostly your wording that's silly and mistaking stylistic opinions for skill but I'm bored of this

>>14749649
Ignore the guy that said Thunderbolt is just about "SOLDIERS DOIN' THEIR DUTIES"

Thunderbolt is mostly about 2 relationships on the 2 different sides

On the Zeon side you have Daryl, who develops as he loses more and more must sacrifice more and more of himself to protect his comrades and eventually the woman he loves, and maybe ultimately for revenge. Karla on the other hand is forced to essentially mutilate her lover and transform him into a weapon of war, and struggles with that decision since she also hates war but has no choice.

On the other end is Io, this guy who is so fucked up by his Dad killing himself (because he felt responsible for Moore's destruction) he only cares about battle; he has this frictious relationship with Claudia, who does give a shit about everybody (because everybody is now her responsibility, which is a position she was forced into) and she goes through an arc trying to come to terms with that, and with his attitude.

They are both forced to examine their smaller dualities throughout it; Daryl is at the end made to question whether or not there is a part of him that loves war driving his decisions, Io is made to question if he really does give a shit about anything except war.

It isn't ultra deep, heady shit, and nobody said it was. In part because this is all crammed into four 15-minute episodes where a significant % needs to be devoted to robots exploding, but I think they did a good job conveying it all, and conveying everything way more smoothly than many longer series that are out there.

>"MUH ZEEKWANK"
>"MUH FEDDIEWANK"

If these people got permabanned /m/ would improve a lot

>>14749797
>but I think they did a good job conveying it all, and conveying everything way more smoothly than many longer series that are out there.
You're a fucking idiot for believing this.

>>14749909

Then prove him wrong, shithead.

>>14749909
wtf I hate thunderbolt now!

>>14749589

There was literally a kid at the end of gundam 0079 during the battle of a baoa qu. Tem Ray says there are kids as young as Amuro fighting on both sides at the beginning of the whole damn series.

>>14750913
he's saying both sides did this. his point is they aren't taking a side in the story.

within the context of thunderbolt itself we only see the kids being used juxtaposed with cripplies being used, but the audience already knows that zeon has already done worse war crimes. they're not whitewashing zeon war crimes by showing what they show. just because they're not relevant to what happens in TB doesn't mean they don't think you know about them.

>>14749722
And we call you snapshit, your point sir?

>>14748308
The point was that both sides are terrible.

>>14743633
I bet you think evangalion is good... kys

>>14743633
That's most of Gundam though. Cheap melodrama and fencesitting between two factions in shades of a really shitty grey.

Narratives don't need to take a side though. You can tell a story from a somewhat neutral point of view but balancing it is the hard part.

>>14752717
No, most of the enemy factions are only 'morally grey' because their fan base insist that they did nothing wrong and make excuses for their crimes.

>>14752738
Hence the "shades of really shitty grey". Whenever you get so called super evil guys, it's just that, one guy. The Federation are assholes, every important Zeek is an egotistical cunt or a maniac.

>>14752748
It's not, the EF are portrayed as cunts in some way in every installment.

>>14752759
That's because the focus is different between the two groups. You aren't following EF leaders coming up with suicide decoy plans, actively talking about abandoning certain areas, targeting or abusing Zeeks etc but rather some fringe group or special group with a Gundam that are always much milder in attitude.

Where as with antagonist factions there's more focus on the genocidal maniac leaders, they're are the ones with the most screentime next to your mandatory masked ace.

Though I will admit even the EFs worse portrayal doesnt top the shit Zeon does.

>>14752773
read
>>14752717
>between two factions in shades of a really shitty grey.
>You can tell a story from a somewhat neutral point of view but balancing it is the hard part.

I don't care much about fan reception. The fact is, in most Gundam shows both major factions are portrayed as shitty to some extent and for the record I never praised the use of it so far.
You're meant to sympathize with the protagonists faction purely from a standpoint of being the "lesser evil" however in UC Gundam shows the EF is still vilified even from the standpoint of people within the Federation, most commonly from the protagonist's group. Bright wasnt exactly RENGOU BANZAI and for most of First Gundam the civilian cast just wanted shit to end.

I'm not saying Gihren is suddenly Gandhi because of this or that it hasn't always been done sloppily.

>>14752773
>Tomino fails his propaganda

More like he exposed just how unrepentant and nationalistic Japan is because they'll side with people who wanted to genocide most of humanity because the Japanese are clearly part of the chosen people who won't be.

That they hail a petty and vindictive man as the hero of the universe.

>>14752960
I think as a Japanese person he can easily identify with supremecist culture which is a reoccurring issue in history.

Some Japanese, Germans, Zionsits see themselves as inherently superior as a whole leading to colour coded movements

A lot of Japanese writers do a great job or humanizing both sides of a conlicts regardless of the message

>>14752844
But Gandhi and gihren are very identical both are blood thirsty,both get assinated,
Both destroy Australia capital Zeon using a colony and Gandhi using a Nuke

>>14753081
Yeah, it must suck to be him and see your people side with the bad guys in your story.

>>14752923
A lot of westerners also sympathize with Zeon.

>>14754140
It's only the bleeding heart SJWers millennials who are shitting on Zeon these days.

>>14754177
If you are a living human being on this planet I don't see how you could side with anyone but Zeon.
The story made sense in its time but nowadays that shit just doesn't fly anymore, we've moved on from Tomini's ideals and have seen them as childish and false. The EF only has cool robots as a positive.

>>14752923
There is nothing wrong with being overly nationalistic.

I like Zeon even though they're evil because cartoons aren't real, dummy

>>14754206
This. Hail Zeon.

>>14749243
Have you never seen Letters from Iwo Jima?

Clint has a definite respect for the old style manly jap

File: Msn-04.jpg (215KB, 370x512px) Image search: [Google]

215KB, 370x512px

>>14754206
zeon has the greatest suits thunderbolt sazabi when

>>14754140
That's partially a consequence of our history.
Thanks to our nation's backstory, we have something of a rose-tinted view of the idea of rebellions/revolution.

It's all over our culture - we LOVE a good story of an underdog faction sticking it to a big oppressive evil regime.

The irony being that we still see ourselves in that while disregarding the fact that, in reality, the west has far more in common with the EF than it does Zeon.

Westerners favor it because it fits with that outdated part of our cultural identity that lets us still believe/sympathize with the underdog factions because FREEDOM.

>>14754325
Somewhat awkward for this conversation, but he also credits a good chunk of his inspiration for that film to the Japanese movie Fires on the Plains.

Which was, for Japan, a pretty scathing critique of their efforts in WWII.

Where LFIJ still kind of tries to capture some nobility for the individuals, FotP is a much harsher 'this guy is just trying to stay alive while catching shit both ahead and behind him' narrative.

>doesn't take a side

The Federation forces in thunderbolt are the most justified in any Gundam show. They are all survivors of Side 4 which Zeon destroyed and are willing to give anything to reclaim their homeland and get their revenge.

Even the suicidal Zeon give pause when Cornelius reveals he's a side 4 survivor. You can hear the guilt in their voice.

>>14754140
>>14754177
>>14754478

is Zeon repilled?

>>14755996
/pol/ leave.

>>14755996
No.
Ideology itself is bluepilled as fuck despite having backing of a fascist army.