How can mecha genre be saved? Literally every new series fails.

>>14733030
Might help if the designs weren't shit

Then why was Delta the best selling show of Spring?

>>14733030

Yes, every new series fails, and doesn't do well enough to break even and end like Buddy Complex or Aldnoah, or gets two sequels and a movie like Fafner, or a movie and a special episode sequel like Majestic Prince, or a successful spin-off like Akito for Geass which may end up also getting a third season depending on what happens in November.

Everything just crashes and burns.

>>14733038

Sorry, Fafner got -a- sequel and a movie before, but it ended with so many loose ends that a third series is practically guaranteed.

I'm guessing your idea of "success" is "sell more than 20k"

>>14733035

13k for first volume is nothing amazing when you look at other big series recently. It also dropped a lot with vol.2.

Frontier did 40-50k.

Compare it with other /m/ shows without mechas like GuP or Symphogear that sold over 2x better without Macross brand behind them.

>>14733038

You do know that generic harems with below 4k sales sometimes get more seasons and movies? Often those are already in the works while S1 is airing and cancelling them would cost more than just airing them.

People were going crazy over how good Aldnoah was doing but in the end it sold 7k.

>>14733038
We can ignore MJP since it has a pachislot and pachislot just means you're a tax haven for Yakuza and thus bound to get extra installments because Yakuza money.

Just stop airing mecha for a couple of years and Japan will yearn for it in a nostalgic frenzy. Like when Japan gobbled up Gundam SEED because it was the first Gundam series in years that slightly resembled the original universe.

>>14733030
Just make gurls und not-gundams already.

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>>14733030
Maybe Level-5 and Tatsunoko might save the day, as weird as it is to say this.

But seriously, between this and Heybot (not by Level-5 or Tatsu), an influx of shows that don't take themselves seriously at all is sorely needed.

>>14733067
Okay, so does this mean Fafner has a pachislot too?

>>14733105

I think people are really tired of teen boys in robots fighting with laser katanas.

The fact that a show about tanks is shitting on them is a clear sign.

>>14733110

It helps that GuP is actually good and Actas gives a shit about making it such.

Gundam Build Fighters with S1 style 1v1 and all the characters are girls + 1 trap.

>>14733100
Better yet, just have mecha go back to its roots

Mecha may well be underperforming nowadays because the new series we get are focused more on having a CUHRAYZEE/"deep" plot that falls flat almost every time. If they'd return to having simple, effective stories and unapologetically fun robot action, they'd succeed for the same reason mecha shows have succeeded in the past

>>14733115

It also shows that people are interested in real war machines more than in toy robots.

>>14733038
>>14733042
Fafner also got a prequel, remember.

>>14733138
Nope, that doesn't work anymore either unfortunately. As far as I know at least.

I mean Doamaiger only rarely gets talked about for instance.

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I wish this would create a surge of mecha series without humanoid robots.

But who am I kidding, they will just put lesbian girls in Gundams and it will start selling again.

>>14733110
GuP was something new and fresh. It succeeded for the same reason that Build Fighters did. And that's because it was made with effort and a real love for its subject matter.

>>14733154
>they will just put lesbian girls in Gundams and it will start selling again.

How could you not want that?

>>14733156

GuP sold many times better than BF.

>>14733163

I wish they would put lesbos in wrecking ball mechas or spider mechas.

And lesbos in gundams show airs next season.

You're acting like it's only the mecha genre having this problem.

Every fucking genre of anime is having it with oversaturation, you're just ignoring it in other genres because they manage to hit big.

How many fucking Cute Girls doing Cute Things anime have tanked in the past 5 years? How many do people even remember?

How many Isekai? How many magical high schools?

>>14733170

Mecha and harem are suffering.

All-girls series still sell great. They top ranks every season.

>>14733151
Doamaiger was a series of 3 minute shorts; it was never going to have any lasting impact regardless of what it was about

Anyway, I'm not saying to go back to the 70s for every new show, I'm saying that they need to stop trying to make a new Code Geass or Eva

>>14733175
Well maybe Jinraiger is supposed to be that.

You know.

Whenever it fucking airs.

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Heavy Object is supposed to get a spin-off about a fighter pilot. And then likely a spin-off about a mecha pilot soon after.

I have a lot of hope for them.

If they do anywhere close as good as Railgun it could push the genre in a nice direction.

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>>14733170
>How many fucking Cute Girls doing Cute Things anime have tanked in the past 5 years?

A good number

>>14733170

Majority of cute girl series tank because every season there are 1-2 that do very good and take all the sales. You can't expect otaku to buy 5 series every season.

Mecha sells bad without competition.

>>14733192

Is that show even good? Those "cute girls doing cute things" shows are so fucking boring.

mecha will never be good again so long as studios and directors continue to fail on world building.

God damn every sing show might as well exist in a vacuum where nothing exists outside the plot

>>14733219
Most shows establish a generic sci-fi setting with their technology and don't go beyond that because it's not necessary

Not everything needs to be FSS and have detail for the sake of itself

>>14733219
kids wanting fighting hamsters and ghost doraemons and other non-robot shit doesn't help much, either

>>14733219

I'm actually more pissed about shows not focusing on mecha using mechas. In almost every Sci-fi anime everybody is using fucking humanoid mechas like they were some natural evolution of ground vehicles.

It's fucking stupid. Mechas don't work for serious war shows.

>>14733138
So you want more shows like SEED then.

>>14733231

Mecha was never really a genre for little kids.

Fuck blu rays
Sell Toys
Everything will go better

>>14733234
>serious war shows.
>serious
Anime is never serious

>>14733283

Gundum pretends to be.

But really, there are plenty of serious anime.

>>14733189
really? sounds like it would be pretty cool

Make a pokemon style video game that plays really well with mech collection

make a tv show tie in for it, let writers do whatever they want to and not really follow what the games do

you have a successful mech franchise now

>>14733236
To be frank, yes, I think mecha needs that, although SEED was far from three only example of the mecha boom of the late 90s/early 00s to follow the same principles and enjoy success. Just look at Mazinkaiser, or hell, even King Gainer, as unique as it was, was still pretty simple and never tried to be more than entertainment

I say all this despite having lukewarm feelings at best to all the shows I've brought up

>>14733327
Something like Medabots?

>>14733327
Sounds kinda like Gotcha Force, except we all know how that went.

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>>14733322

That ace girl volume is already the best one in the series. We'll see how this turns out.

>>14733336
you need a better and more addictive video game first, and with giant piloted mechas instead of tiny friendly mechas, but that's the germ of the idea

>>14733327

More people care about animals than mechas. I doubt it could ever become as popular as pokemon.

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>>14733206

it's one of the good ones

>>14733344
>that vajayjay covering
Is that for ease of access?

>>14733366

It's probably for gathering piss. Pilots often piss themselves.

>>14733344
that's just a fortified suit though...

>>14733506

It's her pilot suit.

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>>14733365
More like there are worse things airing at the same season.

>>14733164
It was also a lot better, the fights didn't end with 1:1 trades almost every time

>>14733154

Having a big metal ball as the integral part of every design isn't appealing and reminds me of WWII "napkin" prototypes.

All those tiny guns make me think of hairy balls

>>14735528
>hairy balls mecha piloted by little girls

That's somehow appealing in it's own way.

I think it's high time we accept that mecha is past it's prime and stop worrying about how it can become thing again.

>>14733058
>Frontier did 40-50k.

what happened? Delta couldnt have been that bad

>>14733030

The problem, as I see it, is that too much anime (mecha especially) treats the show as an advertisement for itself without caring for the final product.

Which is to say, the show exists purely to get you to buy the merch of the characters and the blurays.

What this incentivizes, then, is putting a lot of work into the character and mechanical designs to give it an immediately distinctive feel. Try and grab the audience as quickly as possible with as big and flash opening and first couple episodes, build hype and memes as fast as possible.

And then immediately stop giving a shit.

That's why they start pushing merch in the middle of the show these days. That's why in japan they want you to buy a bluray of the first 3 episodes of the show as the show is still airing. Because the majority of people who buy the first 3 episodes can be reasonably expected to put good money after bad and buy the rest of the series as it becomes available, even if the ending of the show sucks balls.

Its becoming rarer and rarer for studios to give a shit about how a series ends, because if they haven't already made their profits by the time the final episodes airs its a failure. After all, once the show is over there are no longer any new episodes to advertise the show. The commercials for their products stop. So all they care about is how a series begins, and keeping the middle of the show interesting enough to string you along until the ending.

You can still get directors with integrity or shows that are a labor of love where the staff is actually invested in the outcome and having fun. But the business model incentives shows that splash big at the start and don't care about the last half at all.

>>14733189
>no one but Project Aces can design fictional planes.png

>>14733030
Are robots being effectively marketed to kids as being as cool as Kamen Rider recently? No. Has this been done to death? Yes. Real type overload? Yes. Kids in Japan? Less and less are being born. Cold war? It's over. Otaku focus OD? Yes. Cool Japanese construction robots and powered suits? Happening. New cool thing = Not robots. There is a huge PA boom. Are smaller toylike robot series such as Medabots popular? How about less realism?

Tons of question, but a lot of it: are they making it cool to kids or just the adults with cash to burn? Right now monster stuff is popular, so maybe a show about taking pictures of cars and motorcycles and junk that would morph into robot for something in a manor similar to PKMN Go. Constuction stuff is buff/debuff/tnk specials, Military is tnk/DPS, ambulances&police&stuff are hlr or Buff/debuff, and carsshift everywhere. If it sells pizza: it heals though.

>>14735860
Too many copies and even the original Gundam hawked merch, but at least you had a world and characters that were not wink-wink, nudge-nudge, hint-at-x. Shipping wars is too fun though. And, good wifus can sell well like IS... As long as the author a Tenchi Muyo, and lets other universes exist like a Tenchi Universe that could handle it a more seriously light and explore the universe. /m/ would complain to hell but would be entertained at least with more battle and interaction with the world and plot. There would be way more than the typical crazed and radicalized militant feminist groups after the boy. Governments, terrorists, and radicalized /pol/ trolls would be trying to get him.

Derailed myself... But, yeah. The substanceless cloning machine needs its leash pulled hard a bit.

>>14733058
It sold about the same as Symphongear GX. Both of them were heavily pushed with event ticket offers in them and dropped once they stopped. Funny people were saying it would sell as well as Love Live prerelease or would save spring by being the first 10k average show, boy did they look silly now.

>>14733035
>the best selling show of Spring?
In the worst selling spring season and won't even make a 10k average?

>>14733115
>It helps that GuP is actually good
Kek
>and Actas gives a shit about making it such.
Which is why its final episode was delayed for months and the movie is mediocre garbage?

>>14736601
>movie is mediocre garbage

Cute opinion dude. Shame literally nobody agrees.

And they delayed final episodes so they could look great. A shit studio would just air unfinished QUALITY.

>>14736593

Symphogear GX sold over 20k. That's two times better.

>>14736601

The GuP movie is so good that people I know who fucking hate anime love it. It's pretty much half an hour of straight action, half an hour of plot, then an hour of more action.

>>14733149
>GuP tanks
>real
They're super, dude.

>>14736716

I honestly can't remember an action movie made within last 5 years that's better than GuP movie.

It was perfect.

>>14736737

Are you literally retarded? Every single machine in GuP is a real machine that existed.

You mean how they shit on physics sometimes? First of all much of the shit you see in GuP actually can be done in reality. They are also using future tech. And show me a single popular action movie or series that was 100% realistic.

>>14736748
>And show me a single popular action movie or series that was 100% realistic.
G Reco

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>>14736753

3/10

>>14736753

Flying Gundumbs will never be realistic. Ever.

>>14736748
Rocky Count as an action movie?

>>14736770

Not really. And it's still not realistic. Real boxing is nothing like that.

>>14736704
>Shame literally nobody agrees.
You mean moeshitters who would eat everything?
>>14736716
>>14736741
Cool horseshit bro

>>14736704
>And they delayed final episodes so they could look great. A shit studio would just air unfinished QUALITY.
Except the final episode also looked like shotband Actas is a shit studio, they're so shit they couldn't even finish an anime they had scheduled for Summer.

>>14733110
>The fact that a show about tanks is shitting on them is a clear sign.
GuP is the same shit we've been getting throughout the decade. Cute girls doing blank with the draw being tanks. Its a completely substanceless show otherwise and its fanbase are as degenerate as the average moe fanbase.

>>14733156
>GuP was something new and fresh
I seriously hope you don't believe this. Like this anon said>>14740895 its the same shallow garbage we've always gotten.

>>14733030
You know not every fucking mecha anime from the last decade were top sellers, we just remember the big titles from that era hence why we delude ourselves into believing we were in top. The truth of the matter is all genre sales are down and anime is moving to a new transition where companies are finding different ways to gain profit not just through BD and DVD sales. Gundam and Macross are crossmedia franchises who make money through product while everything else will no doubtly struggle like always. Mecha doesn't really need to change

Last good mech anime that i saw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2hEjVKlU_o8

>>14741146

New episode/movie when and who's subbing

>>14741152
still waiting for that movie

>>14736764
>obligatory shitpost from some fuc/k/er
Its cute you think we even give a shit about the shitposts that mechs are unrealistic

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>>14733219
>God damn every sing show might as well exist in a vacuum where nothing exists outside the plot

Isn't G-reco pretty recent?

Becaue I'm watching it not and "exising in a vacuum" is the last thing this thing has going on.

>>14733030
Help the Japanese have more babies.

>>14733120
>Mecha
>all the characters are girls
destined for failure, like the recent yuri mecha thing we just had

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>>14741435
>like the recent yuri mecha thing we just had

Third most highly regarded show this season in Japan and it hasn't even failed as they're currently restarted for Autumn.

Regalia has its issues but it's definitely not a disaster/failure like you make it out to be.

>>14736601

Its final episode was delayed because of production issues, much like Regalia was postponed and pulled from its slot by Actas because it didn't live up to their standards of quality and they're touching it up again to re-broadcast.

>>14740911

I'm sorry that a show about girls driving tanks has done better than almost every mecha outing in the last decade.

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>>14740911
>>14740895

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>>14733030
>How can mecha genre be saved?

Idols.

>inb4 Love Live is not /m/

It's /m/ because I say so.

>>14741527
Not a bad idea, just switch roles. Idols doing cute things with mecha and the male characters do the bridge bunny work with their flagship.

>>14741539
Fuck idols, let's do sailor moon with mecha.

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>>14741554
If they fight like pretty Cure, i'm IN.

>>14741333

That post was talking about realism autism-kun. Gundam was never realistic.

>>14741435
>destined for failure

Like GuP right? I remember how everybody was laughing at it and expecting a giant flop when it started airing.

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>>14733105
>Maybe Level-5

They gave us Gundam Age, one of the worst received entries in Gundam. Shame cause the premise was good

>>14741615
GuP ignites military otaku and normal otaku at the same time.

Gundam, no mecha, has nothing on that.

>>14741412
G-Reco is what happens when you have a large world with multiple factions with their own motivations, politics and in-universe cultures and traditions, and then respect the viewer's intelligence and ability to follow it by presenting it organically without setting aside chunks of the show to make lengthy infodumps and exposition: half the audience can't follow it and apparently get really offended that they're expected to or something.

>>14741654
So G-Reco is too smart for its audience?

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>>14741659
No, G-Reco is a show with cluttered pacing and goofy shit all over the place, and while I liked it I wouldn't consider it higher than a 7/10.

I just didn't have a problem following it and have been generally confused as to why people think it's incomprehensible and felt the need to start a war over the big mean G-Reco fans trying to keep them down, or whatever the fuck the deal is.

>>14741661
So you think you are pretty smart huh?

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>>14741664
Nah, I replied to you so I couldn't be.

>>14741667
That's just your ego talking, brah.

>>14741640
Do you think if AGE would've been better if it was IBO edgy-like? I mean, IBO was supposed to be the next Gundam series after 00 before the shelved it for AGE.

>>14733030
You hire a studio that is dedicated and commited like Studio David and animate the entire Getter Robo Saga.

>>14741654

It also doesn't help that most of those factions, predominantly G-IT and the Towasangans, were painfully flat and underutilized.

>>14733173
So you're saying Regalia is going to save mecha?

>>14741654
Yes, it's so organic that none of its dialogue sounds like people talking to each other.

>>14741661
>>14741751
>G-Reco is a show with cluttered pacing and goofy shit all over the place
Found the retard

>>14741450
>Third most highly regarded show this season in Japan
Cool horseshit bro. It was also doing poorly in preorders.

>Regalia has its issues but it's definitely not a disaster/failure like you make it out to be.
Uh...when you have to cease production on your show because you're too incompetent to get the ball moving then you have a disaster.

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>>14741461
>Its final episode was delayed because of production issues, much like Regalia was postponed and pulled from its slot by Actas because it didn't live up to their standards of quality

>>14741461
>I'm sorry that a show about girls driving tanks has done better than almost every mecha outing in the last decade
And Love Live has done better than GuP. You really have no reason to gloat when GuP is on the same level as shit like Kamcolle and Highschool Fleet.

>>14741706
>flat and underutilized.
Guess you didn't watch the show

>>14741789
About Regalia, i still do not understand why they stopped. Yes, maybe there was some problem with the sound, but the animation of the first episodes seemed quite good.

The real issues is that the story did not make a good initial impression, to me, at last, but I have nothing to say about the visual quality. It was far better than a lot of other stuff around and the mecha were 2d.

Given that I do not think that they will change story, I do not see why of this stop.

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>>14740933
This. All you fags are asking for is just shitty gimmicks that will become irrelevant within the next season. Mecha is something only hardcore otaku are into and this has been the case for quite some time, SEED, Code Geass and 00 were popular with people outside the usual demographic largely due to the second boom of anime fandom that came about during SEED's popular run. Nowadays anime has gotten a lot bigger, there's a lot more choices so fandom are spreadout, there's not one huge thing everyone is watching but multiple things different people are watching but at the same time anime in general seems to be dropping in sales given the low output last season brought. With the success of Your Name many people are speculating that it may cause another surge of new anime content but it has yet to be seen.

>>14741794
That's just saying mecha has gotten to its deep end.

Military otaku who prefer battleships and tanks and guns overpower the "mech" fans now.

>>14741654

If half the audience can't follow it, then that's defineably the fault of the show. If you saw a murder mystery and, at the end, only half the audience understood the explanation because one of the primary clues was too subtle and never drawn attention to during the explanation at then end, that's now the fault of the audience.

Its the job of a mystery writer to keep the audience apace with the clues such that when the resolution comes it is both inevitable and surprising. When it comes to worldbuilding, you have to do the same thing.

The setting is the least important part of your scifi story. The setting only exists to enable and explain the plot. But even so, if the audience doesn't understand your setting it can't do those things, and you start running into problems because your characters and their actions exit in that context.

Take the character of Mask, for example. Mask's entire character and motivation is deeply tied to the Kuntala issue, but no one can fucking agree as to what the Kuntala situation actually was. I've seen people claim that the Kuntala were literally human livestock born for that purpose, that the Kuntala were just second class citizens (for unknown reasons) that were used as a food source during a dire emergency, or that the line in question was purely metaphorical and that the Kuntala have just been treated poorly and 'cannibalized by society' as a workforce. All because the one or two lines of dialog that tell us anything on the subject are so 'organic' that they are extremely non-informative.

And yet Mask cares so goddamn much about it. How am I supposed to care about Mask when he is upset about something I have never been told about? I can't know whether his rage and actions are justified, because I don't know the crime he is trying to avenge. It forces me to back up a character by making assumptions and headcanon of my own to prop up their story.

>>14733151
>I mean Doamaiger only rarely gets talked about for instance.

Although all of Doamaiger being a little over 30 minutes long doesn't help.

>>14741806
>Given that I do not think that they will change story, I do not see why of this stop.

The first 3 revised episodes already aired, They fixed some animation and broke up some scenes but the problem with the story is still there.

People have been dreading the death of anime since 2008 due to durr durr the western market doesn't like it anymore

But it shows that as long as the japs buy it, anime will never die.

And now the West's taste even turns into more like japs.

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>>14741827
>If half the audience can't follow it, then that's defineably the fault of the show
Nah, there's been plenty of well-received shows and movies that got poor reception from general audience because "they couldn't follow it" it has nothing to d with the quality of the show itself just that it has a limited appeal factor beyond its scope and the people who do "get it" got something out of it while the people who didn't hate it for it.

>The setting is the least important part of your scifi story
And because of this stupid ass logic we got shit like A/Z and Cross Ange both shows which had blatant disregard to its own setting and wide up being clusterfucks as a resort of their own negligence. Hell mecha classics like Gundam, Dougram, Votoms etc all take great pride in detailing what works and their world and how they effect their characters because that's the world they live in so fuck your logic the setting does matter.

> Mask's entire character and motivation is deeply tied to the Kuntala issue, but no one can fucking agree as to what the Kuntala situation actually was
Mask literally says what his beef with it is you just suck at paying attention.

> I've seen people claim that the Kuntala were literally human livestock born for that purpose
Its explained in show
>that the Kuntala were just second class citizens
This is false

>How am I supposed to care about Mask when he is upset about something I have never been told about?
Wow you really didn't watch this show at all.

>>14741856
>take great pride in detailing what works and their world and how they effect their characters because that's the world they live in.

This anon speak true. Very often it is the setting that has saved many boring stories.

>>14741798

Oh yes, how silly of me, Tomino is the best writer ever.

Sorry, I deviated from this board's programming for a second.

>>14733030

How can the mecha genre be saved?

Make better stories.

Basically, Thunderbolt is the apex of writing in mecha anime. Just look at how it completely BTFO'ed nearly all other entries in the franchise.

You need a show that's mature and deals with adult themes (like Evangelion) without being incoherent and edgy for no reason (Valvrave.)

That's really all that matters. You need to get a good story first, and you have to steer clear of 'Gundam-isms'. Do something really surprising! Kill off characters. Perhaps the ostensible protagonist croaks. Maybe the bad guys win, forever, and the end of the show is them heading forth to conquer the world and it's not really so bad.

Maybe the hero ends up filled with PTSD at the end. Maybe his character development makes him a WORSE PERSON. Do the unexpected, and run with it!

>>14741922
>board's programming
>/m/ agreeing on anything

New or just stupid?

and, as is so often the case, the answer is in the middle.
Tomino is not a perfect writer by any means. His desire for making more 'naturalistic' dialogue can often lead to rather bizarre asides, and on several occasions he's set up plotlines that ultimately go nowhere or clumsily rush to conclude themselves.

At the same time, the people who argue his work has no merits whatsoever and that he is just THE WORST are little better, simply banking on the other hyperbolic extreme.

Granted, that's 4chan for you - ain't got time for nuance and all that, but really, to say this board just unequivocally sucks his dick is just...painfully wrong.

>>14741938

>Make better stories.

And then you talk about Thunderbolt, a Gundam installment that barely has a fucking story.

>>14741950
>to say this board just unequivocally sucks his dick is just...painfully wrong.

Well, news to me, considering how ardent every G-Reco supporter is in doing so. Perhaps including the entire board was excessively sarcastic.

>>14741951
What are you talking about?

Daryl's struggle is barely no story? Io Flemming's thrill seeking adventure is no story? The whole alternate UC is no story?

>>14741951

Exactly. You didn't need a complicated setup or hours of technobabble. No, we immediately understood that it was WWII in space, and both sides fucking hated each other.

It would be a similar set-up if it was about Ace Combat fighter pilots and so on. What stood out were the character interactions and the sublime cruelty of the fighting.

>>14741554
So Symphogear, then.

>>14741960

Maybe in the actual manga, which is something that actually existed to try and tell a story and not shove four episodes of noise and explosions in its viewers' faces, and even then the story element only really kicks in after the first arc.

>>14741969
I watch the OVA first and I don't see why fuck that it has no story. It got characters, plot, event, political factions, battles, all of that translate into a fast-paced military story.

It has more stories than some of the OVA like 08th MS and 0083.

>>14741976

Because the OVA goes full fucking fast-forward on everything, it's got a bunch of cardboard cutouts and about three, maybe four people that can actually be described as proper characters, and even then as with the first arc itself in the manga it basically boils down to two of those characters getting really angry at each other while everyone else gets fucked or distracted by little things like the only time Claudia has a drug problem, and then the actual plot happens.

You don't read Thunderbolt's first four volumes to be gripped by scintillating character interaction and realpolitik, nor do you watch the OVA for the same purpose, you do it to see things explode in good animation.

>>14741985
Dude, 5 characters are enough to carry a show, considering how piss poor the other Gundam OVA are.

0080 for example only has 3 proper characters, or 2, since Chris barely only serves as exposition.

>You don't read Thunderbolt's first four volumes to be gripped by scintillating character interaction and realpolitik, nor do you watch the OVA for the same purpose, you do it to see things explode in good animation.
I watch Thunderbolt for good animation, what I got is a grippling story inside that animation, where both protags are rather likeable even with flaws.

>>14741990

Well, all I'll say is you leave me baffled, because I don't understand how you can find that story gripping at all.

>>14742009
Considering the other OVA and even some other Gundam, I would say the conflict between two ideological groups with good/bad people on both sides are pretty fucking grippling.

>>14742018

Wow, that's almost every conflict in the history of man ever.

>>14742024
Indeed, and these conflicts happen to be most grippling in the history of men.

>>14742030

One, 'gripping'.

Two, heavily, heavily subjective, especially when Gundam's run it into the fucking ground the way it has.

>>14742033
Even 0079 is less gray than Thunderbolt.

>>14741957
Or maybe we're not as stupid as you and the folks at ANN, AML and reddit?

>>14742043
>/m/
>not the singular most stupid community around

Glass houses, anon. Glass houses.

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>>14741938
>Make better stories.

>Basically, Thunderbolt is the apex of writing in mecha anime

I really want Space Buddhists to be animated just to shut these idiots up.

>>14742036

Why, because it features cripples?

>>14742049
>/m/ liking a show I hate makes them stupid

Great argument you got there

>>14742052
Because the White Base is good and Gihren was fucking evil in 0079.

In Thunderbolt though, both sides fight for what they believe in, and aren't "good" or "evil".

>>14742050
That's gonna be glorious actually.

South East Asian operating.

>>14742066

Yeah, and then the manga shows that Zeeks are fucking dicks again because they send off two cripples on a suicide mission because they can't pilot effectively. Whoops.

>>14742070
And? The EF sent a bunch of kid soldiers to their death.

I would say that's worse than sacrificing two cripples.

>>14742066
>Because the White Base is good
he WB isn't on some majestic crusade to save the world just to survive the conflict, all throughout 0079 we're shown that the people who they're actually working for, the EF, are assholes and Kai pretty much blurts out "Once we're finished with Zeon shouldn't we take out our side as well?"
>Gihren was fucking evil in 0079.
I like how you just mention Gihren and not Zeon as a whole. Like Thunderbolt somehow didn't have evil characters with ill intentions because MUH GRITTY WAR AESTHETIC

>>14741938
Everything you just suggested is a retarded, base, and childish inversion for the sake of being different. Thunderbolts writing is absolute garbage, and BTFOs exactly nothing. It exemplifies everything that is wrong with the stereotypical "what /m/ claims to want in mecha" viewpoint to a T. It is a childish, violent romp for nothing more than its own sake and the source material is even worse. Straight-laced military men are boring and make awful MCs. Edgelord combat addicts are worse. I'd rather have a mecha anime about kids playing EVE-O with mechs at their computers than more Blunderbolt.

>>14742072

Well, one, not all of them died, two, no-one told them upfront 'Yeah, you're going to die, tough luck', and three, though I may be mis-remembering, it was an (extremely stupid) way of trying to find more outstanding pilots.

Oh, and Zeek ground troops are also shown to be unrepentant wannabe rapists later, but I'm not sure I'm too surprised by that considering Thunderbolt's made by the same guy who wrote Dog Life Dog Style.

>>14742077
>>14742077
>he WB isn't on some majestic crusade to save the world just to survive the conflict, all throughout 0079 we're shown that the people who they're actually working for,
The WB is relatively good side with a noble intention to save Earth.
>the EF, are assholes and Kai pretty much blurts out "Once we're finished with Zeon shouldn't we take out our side as well?"
They are assholes, but not to Zeon's level.
>I like how you just mention Gihren and not Zeon as a whole
Because even the good guys in Zeon are honorable, that's about it.
>Like Thunderbolt somehow didn't have evil characters with ill intentions because MUH GRITTY WAR AESTHETIC
For the moment, there are no guys evil for the sake of evil. It will have in the future, but not now.

>>14742087
>
Well, one, not all of them died, two, no-one told them upfront 'Yeah, you're going to die, tough luck', and three, though I may be mis-remembering, it was an (extremely stupid) way of trying to find more outstanding pilots.
That's an even worse fate considering these kids mostly serve as cannon fodders to distract for the main player, the FA Gundam.
>Oh, and Zeek ground troops are also shown to be unrepentant wannabe rapists later
Realistic then.

>>14742094

Being 'realistic' doesn't make it good.

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>>14733030
Make more realistic shit like Patlabor

>>14741938
>incoherent and edgy
>not Cross Ange

There's an agenda being pushed, and I'm sure it's being pushed by space vampire apologists.

>>14742094
It's true for all ground forces forever that aren't above boot level. You raise a pack of ultraviolent hard-charging ass kickers so they can take ground effectively, that's what you get. They don't come with an off switch.

>>14742091
>The WB is relatively good side
The WB IS the EF. They're intentions are just to survive the war.
>They are assholes, but not to Zeon's level.
They're about the same and throughout the franchise they get worse and worse
>Because even the good guys in Zeon are honorable, that's about it.
They're just fighting for a cause they believe in but their intentions are not malicious or even for the sake of it
>For the moment, there are no guys evil for the sake of evil
Io's dad and the Doc

>>14742098
I like my grimdark thing, realism is just an excuse, it makes my dick wet.
>>14742103
Yes, and these guys will always happen to be the best troops.

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>>14733030
Get a mecha villain like Pete over here with a crazy-ass mech. I would watch the shit out of it just for the villain.

>>14742107
>They're about the same and throughout the franchise they get worse and worse

It's more the bad sides for each get exaggerated.
The difference is the EF is more dangerous in their ineptitude and complacency.
Zeon, meanwhile, gets more dangerous in their use of 'ends justify the means' rationale to pursue their agendas.

That the EF allows Haman to drop a colony is bad, but it's hard to really say they're worse than the people WHO ARE ACTUALLY DROPPING THE COLONY IN THE FIRST PLACE.

>>14742107

Didn't Io's dad basically commit sudoku since he basically cracked to the pressure as Side 4 is getting destroyed?

>>14742110
>boots
>best
Neck yourself, the average LAARP would wreck three times their number of boots and the ass whipping only gets worse as you go up in professionalism.

>>14742116
He was behind some illegal shit and Io didn't have much fondness for him as a person.

>>14742117
Excuse me, meant LRRP. Don't know where that came from.

>>14742107
>The WB IS the EF. They're intentions are just to survive the war.
WB is a part of the EF, but as you show, they even hate the EF. Then again, Tomino loves to do this reasonable faction inside a bad faction with his White Base, Londo Bell, League Militaire shit.
>Io's dad and the Doc
Io's dad wanted to deny the enemy's territory.
Doc is just a coward greedy piece of shit.

>>14742115
>T-t-t-t-t-t-hey did it first

So that's why Zeon is worse

>>14742111
Fuck off

>>14742125
Comparatively speaking, yeah.

I mean, say you see someone getting mugged and go "Shit. Sucks for them, but not my problem."
Do I charge you with armed robbery?

It's not good, but the fact is, saying there's an equivalence between the one who looks the other way and the one who's actually doing the deed is disingenuous and largely just done in an attempt to make the one doing the deed seem less evil by comparison.

>>14742134
So entrapment isn't wrong

>>14742155
/m/ doesn't believe in entrapment

>>14742155
The problem with that argument here is that it suggests the EF was just letting Haman do this figuring 'The people won't stand for it.'

The entire point of entrapment by definition is that you let the crime happen not because you feel it doesn't concern you, but in the hopes that it can then be used to nail the perpetrator.

The EF had no such intentions.
There was no sinister master plan beyond 'Well, fuck it. What's a few less mouths to feed?'

That's always been the difference.
The Federation isn't a 'good' organization.
They're lazy, self-serving, and prone to all manner of political corruption.
Most of the time when faced with a conflict, they'll take the easiest path, ethics of it considered secondary.
Remember, a big part of why Revil's 'Zeon is exhausted' speech worked was because the EF leaders were prettymuch shamed into taking action by it.
They started to turn against the Titans less from Char's speech and more from Jerid opening fire on their assembly hall.
Even in ZZ, it was Bright's pleading the case to the EFSF that got them to mobilize rather than any sort of grand moral outrage over Dublin.

Again, not good people.

HOWEVER, the harm of that ineptitude is entirely variable on what other groups around them do. If no one's dropping a colony, they're not gonna stop and say "You know what we haven't had in a while? An old-fashioned crime against humanity."

They'll be content to sit on their hands and keep doing what they're doing.

Again, still a bad thing, but in and of itself, mostly just apathetic and self-serving rather than outright malicious.

Which is the problem. No one's saying they're right here, but it's a false equivalency to argue that their decision to look at a faction's plan to slaughter an entire city and go 'ah, let 'em do it' is worse than the group who's decided they're going to slaughter the entire city in the first place.

Maybe if you guys actually watched the shows I'd be willing to take you seriously.

>>14741794
Why is GuP on the same level as kancolle and Haifuri? Seriously, why? And don't tell me it's just because it has cute girls. Simply having cute girls doesn't inherently make a show bad. If you want to say it's shallow, explain how exactly it's shallow.

>>14742103
I thought that commanders wanted discipline in their soldiers, not wild animals.

>>14742184
Please old man we can't ask for the impossible.

>>14742215
They would get themselves in order real quick after raping some girls.

>>14742204
GuP is Build Fighters Season 1 for tank nerds. It's already head and shoulders above Kancolle.

>>14742215
Close. They want them to stand still when told to and to fuck everything up in that general direction when told to. The second one is the problem.

>studio trigger announces crazy new mech show
>yfw

>>14741794

And every show you listed is better than almost every Gundam season. What's your point exactly?

>>14742230

You really think that GuP fans are tank nerds? Really?

It's a show that managed to make tank battles fun and interesting. Tank fans had shit to do with it's popularity. It's more like it made tanks popular. Tank models sales in Japan skyrocketed after GuP.

Meanwhile GBF was something only Gundam nerds loved.

>>14742111
FMP the second raid had Gates who was kinda like that

>>14742297
>Tank models sales in Japan skyrocketed after GuP.
>Meanwhile GBF was something only Gundam nerds loved.

Okey, maybe, but they sell in relation to what? And what kind of product are we talking about, the tank kits, plastic reproductions, figurines of GuP? Your speech seems a bit generic.

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>>14742285
>And every show you listed is better than almost every Gundam season

>>14742297
>It's a show that managed to make tank battles fun and interesting. Tank fans had shit to do with it's popularity. It's more like it made tanks popular. Tank models sales in Japan skyrocketed after GuP.
I think GuPfags are the most deluded fanbase on /m/

>>14742204
The characters aren't memorable and are largely archetypes. The tank battles themselves looks like shit and the story...well there is no story just a series of battles. Its the very definition of shallow enetertainment. At least Haifuri looks good. Actas literally got fucking lucky

>>14742362

>The characters aren't memorable and are largely archetypes. The tank battles themselves looks like shit and the story...well there is no story just a series of battles.

Why are you complaining about this when Gundam literally follows this in almost every one of its iterations and you lap it up like a cat to milk.

>>14733030
[insert pic about mecha old and busted]

Problem is, mecha used to be excuse to tell a good war story while still looking cool which never happens with any reasonable sincerity these days. That or super-robot shows which were the rule-of-cool cranked up to 11.

Most mecha within the last 6-7 years lack the passion or sincerity in these two areas so the result tends to be a subpar product. As such, any recent mecha thats attempted war-stories tend to feel way too self-serious with no actual gravitas behind them. Otherwise mecha as a genre is used as an excuse to sell toys which doesn't work if/when your show is subpar anyway because then outside or core mecha fans, you'll fail to draw enough audience from average viewers to get them attached to the mecha designs which in turn drives toy sales.

If they fixed these or at least tackled their subject-matter with more sincerity I think we'll be alright.

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>>14742419
>Most mecha within the last 6-7 years lack the passion or sincerity in these two areas so the result tends to be a subpar product.
May I remind you that the most popular mecha anime within the past decade were SEED, SEED Destiny, 00, Code Geass and Macross Frontier?

>>14742474
Please check your dates. The only one of those that would fall into the 6-7 years past time period is 00 S2, and that was in 2009. Theres a reason I specified the 6-7 year timeframe rather than "decade" or whatnot.

>>14742487
...is that reason by chance that you are full of shit?

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>>14733030
It would help if they made good shows every once in a while. Most either fall apart on the first plot-point; generally falling back on tired-ass tropes, or just pander to the LCD; no meat on it's bones (see Heavy Object).
Too often they think one niche hook will be enough to make their show sell, and then just paint by the numbers on top.
Kuromukuro is the only half-decent one we've had in a while, and even it does all of the above; a 3/5 at best.
I think, at the end of the day, mecha is already a subgenre, so it can be hard for writers to think of new things to do with it when it has been so so heavily defined by the likes of EVA, Gundam, and Macross.

>>14742297
Yeah no fuck off. Tanks are why I got into GuP, I've been a tankfag since I was eight.

>>14742362
Excuse me? Not fucking memorable?
>Erwin
>Yukari
>DUCE DUCE DUCE DUCE DUCE

And
>no story
Confirmed for didn't even fucking watch the show, the story was about the Nishizumi family problems that caused the series in the first place, and that's the resolution that takes place at the end. As much as it was about 'a series of battles' as you would put it, GuP was a character driven series from a very outset. You can see it in nearly everything that happens, and in the details of the character interactions.

Sorry you couldn't see the sports anime under the tanks they used for it.

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Here's a few things that might help with popularity:

1. Shorter season.
Yes, it does suck to only get 12 episodes, and even less would be terrible. But there are lots of shows with bad pacing. Think of it as animating the back blurb of a book, rather than the whole thing. Not for Gundam or Macross, but some other series trying to get itself out there might benefit.

2. Streaming Services
It has their advantages and disadvantages that are elucidated elsewhere, but they seem to pay upfront and can give new ideas a chance to grow

3. New Media push
Again, the pros and cons have been done elsewhere. But someone like Bandai, who already has the machine going, would benefit of more targeted advertising available. Instead of having to pay an ad company to put billboards in places that don't even look at them, going after people who are already into it with some smaller stuff would pay off. Imagine getting a copy of Giant Robot Monthly in your email inbox, with some links to flash animations, proof of concepts, and mangas about ideas the higher ups didn't believe in too much, but they can pay an artist peanuts to see if maybe it has some value out there.

>>14733030
Stop forcing giant robots.
Lets get some starship series.

Yeah I've been noticing lately I don't find any interest in most of these shows of recent years. Oh well at least there's other stuff I can watch instead.

>>14742577

Yeah, those aren't boring.

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>>14742577
Why not something with both?

>>14742082

The issue is that you have to do something unique with your show, to keep asses in seats. Look at how Game of Thrones, Madoka, Evangelion and other 'iconic' media function.

They function because you know no-one is safe and the story is unpredictable. If you can make a story like that without it descending into self-parody (Cross Ange), then people will want to keep watching.

Just imagine watching Evangelion for the first time. You'd be hooked instantly, because what the fuck is going to happen next? This be crazy, yo.

Everyone gets their hopes up for a new Gundam series, then things drop off because we keep retreading the same story over and over again with no real risk. Something crazy has to happen to shake up a show, or it'd never sell.

I'd argue that given the flood of hopeful, all-loving, non-lethal KO'ing mecha protagonists, playing it straight is best. You gave have a compelling story when the protagonist is an actual soldier with no real moral qualms against killing.

Think of all the Western war movies. Generally, I don't see anyone being filled with angst over having to kill Nazis. But you can still have a compelling story anyway.

>>14742554
>>14742230
Basically these. GuP had love put into it. Little details like the KV2 falling on its side, or the Russian singing are what made the show so great. Your average anime wouldn't go out of its way to find seiyuu that can speak fluent russian for the sake of a gag.

While the story in GuP isn't particularly deep, it's still in there. Over the course of the show we see Miho grow and change from a shy girl into a courageous captain. This is more development in 12 episodes than, say, IBO.

In comparing GuP to the current state of mecha, I think what's needed is studios to care more about what they're creating.

>>14733154
Wasn't the main thrust of that series about how the Heavy Objects brought conflicts to a standstill and how the main character dudes on foot were the ones doing the real important stuff?

Sincere question, I didn't see it.

Personally, I feel the problem is that the problem lies within how the industry currently is. Everything today feels too committee-designed, afraid to alienate viewers while reusing popular elements of other shows for their own gains. We're not getting many love letters these days, nor are we getting many shows that try and shake things up. The industry is mostly going through the motions, and something like mecha is being hit harder because it's niche.

Take chances, make mistakes, get messy. That's what the industry needs to attract more people, not pandering to the same crowds over and over.

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>>14733030
>How can mecha genre be saved?
Stop making shows about little kids beating highly trained adult warriors.

Start making shows about hot MILFs piloting mecha and beating highly trained warriors.

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>>14742554
>>14744306
>. GuP had love put into it. Little details like the KV2 falling on its side,

>GuP was a character driven series from a very outset. You can see it in nearly everything that happens, and in the details of the character interactions.
You fags are fucking delusional. Like seeing Kancolle fags talk about how deep and insighful the cast are

>>14744306
>In comparing GuP to the current state of mecha, I think what's needed is studios to care more about what they're creating.
By giving us very cheap production values, shitty CG and being incompetent enough to delay episodes for months at a time?

>>14744439

Sounds like their problem wasn't that they didn't care, its that they didn't have enough budget. The first two are clearly budget related, and the latter certainly wouldn't be helped by a low budget.

Which might be why GuP was allowed to be good int he first place.

Think of it like the Deadpool movie: it was only allowed to be good because the people working on it really loved it and wanted this movie made right, and it was made with the money Ryan Reynolds found under Fox's couch so it didn't draw studio meddling. There is a real concern for the sequel that Fox will give it a blockbuster budget, be unwilling to let it fail, and thus executive meddle the shit out of it to make it 'safe' and prevent it from doing any of the stuff that made the first movie worth watching.

>>14733030

Pic not related?

>>14744432
Please explain why this is delusional.

>>14744258
>Just imagine watching Evangelion for the first time.

mhn, maybe i'm wrong , but i'm pretty sure that when Evangelion was broadcast on TV the first time in japan it was a colossal fiasco.
It was only later, when the press has touted the show as the most innovative of the century, that people became aware of Evangelion and becomed a cultural event.

>>14733030
What's the show name?

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>>14733030
Make mecha realistic and serious again.

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>>14733154
Why not just pilot "soulless giant girls" as mass produced mechs?
Just like EVA but being used like Mobile Suits.

>>14733030

>How do we fix mecha
>lets take out the mechs

are you fucking stupid?

>>14733030
>How can mecha genre be saved?
You do know its fine right? its just that its no longer catering to your tastes, they have to continue to evolve and constantly change. There are good mecha shows out there and most of them are not catering to oldfags. Why do you think IBO was a hit? IBO was a completely shit bag but its a Gundam show thats easy to get into if you're a casual or new to the genre.

>>14745623
> maybe i'm wrong , but i'm pretty sure that when Evangelion was broadcast on TV the first time in japan it was a colossal fiasco.

Indeed, you are wrong.

>>14745641
>It's a Dougram takes five shots at point blank range then jumps twice it's height in the air and wins episode

This doesn't seem very realistic.
I wish we could de-age Takahashi

>>14744432
>didn't even watch the show
It's a fucking sports anime. You are wrong. Kancolle doesn't even have real characters and the anime is considered not only noncanon but counter-canon.

If you wanna completely ignore the dynamic behind the relationship between Miho, Shiho and the board of advisors then you're blind.

>>14749242

>Not only non-canon but counter-canon

Counter-canon is actually a thing? And how did it do so badly to be considered that?

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>>14733030
Mecha has declined because there isn't enough science fiction in the genre anymore. Too much kiddie power fantasy and Otaku/Fujoshi bait.

What the genre needs is solid speculative fiction with a message.

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>>14733154
Japan has a long history of cool space fighter designs for shmup games

>Nah man just give us a crappy humanoid Gundam clone, but be sure to make it as generic and uninteresting as possible

>>14744340
It was more about how the notion of 'clean' wars created by objects was complete bunk and that conflict between the powers was just as brutal and ruthless as ever.

reduce amount of autism in them

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>>14733030
>How can mecha genre be saved?
By making a good, fun show ala TTGL or Megas XLR.Or why not both

>>14733030
How can the mecha genre finally be killed off for good?

Literally every new series fails but they still keep making them, how do we put the final nail in the coffin?

>>14749795
Alright, so that's the theme, but what about the actual combat? What's the object/on-foot getting-shit-done ratio?

>>14742474
if only that list was replaced with shin mazinger and greco

>>14733030
It's time to accept that many mecha series were only popular because there weren't that many series at the time, and that it was a novel concept.

There's a fucking billion series and none of them are novel, and in fact almost all of them are formulaic as shit. There's no generation that "grew up with" a particular anime and has that kind of attachment. That's a thing of the past. That's why Gundam is still barely alive.

At this point you would have to do something kind of weird, but the Japanese hate that. They're a conservative people. They hate taking risks, and they love copying whatever worked in the past and trying to resell it with a few tweaks. AKA Gundam. Japanese occasionally have interesting, weird ideas, but the anime industry is under such deep corporate control at this point that almost nothing can slip through. Aspiring mangaka and whatnot have nothing but corporate aspirations to try and make it into the next shonen jump, into the next anime that sells toys, etc.