>Absolute Democracy And I thought the Federation is some

>>14716771
Yes

>>14716771

If you don't believe what Unicorn retconned in, then yeah.

>more voters on earth than space
oh wait no there aren't. You can't even make a proper over ruled minority argument.

But Yes Blackknight lied Zabis died

>>14716771
Absolute south american democracy

>>14716823
>Absolute south american democracy

I believe this, specially when in CCA they talk about getting the gold to fund welfare.
It is really funny when a 1979 show points out the falter of socialist state that is happening in 2016.

>>14716847
>Trump's grandson will effectively be Degwin in our universe

>>14716771
Technically the Federation was an absolute democracy on the surface, but it was generally managed by a lot of backroom politics.

Due to how voting delegation is based on the population of areas, along with the fact Side 1, 2, 4 and 5 all were completely aligned with the Federation, it could basically block out most other voting blocks in space.

The Federation were also known for propogating and rewarding mass reproduction in areas like Africa and Eurasia due to them being massive voting blocks with uneducated populations being mass accounted for voting wise.

Democracy was quite real with the Federation, the only problem was that the game was always rigged.

Uhh isnt absolute democracy a system without representatives, wherr the people vote, slowly and ditectly upon every issue?
Zeta seems to depict the federation as a representative republic
Maybe the translator was just a retard, or maybe Tomino gets in over his head with political technicalities

>>14716942>The Federation were also known for propogating and rewarding mass reproduction in areas like Africa and Eurasia due to them being massive voting blocks with uneducated populations being mass accounted for voting wise.
Crazy how we need asian cartoon s to confirm such things exist when the western media pretends it doesnt happen ever
Heck, even our history books say its why NYC politicians imported so many Irish and Italians. Or at least the old editions did

>>14716942
>The Federation were also known for propogating and rewarding mass reproduction in areas like Africa and Eurasia due to them being massive voting blocks with uneducated populations being mass accounted for voting wise.
In what work was this revealed?

It sounds too-current-events to be true, frankly, as demonstrated by >>14717036. Not saying you're a liar, just saying I'm too surprised to believe you without a further source.

>>14716942
>>14717030


In the setting notes, it's stated that the EF's democracy (or as it calls it, the parlimentary system) weaked it's ability to defeat Zeon early on.

Reading through the setting notes helps clarify parts of MSG, like "why does the war seem like it's a stalemate early on despite the carnage shown in the opening?" and little bits thrown out that seem out of left field, like the picture in the OP.

Notes are at http://www.ultimatemark.com/gundam/archive/gundamsetting.html

>>14716779

The only thing Unicorn said was that the leaders of the Federation were corrupt and led by money, which is not only true of politicians in general, is true of Gundam since at least CCA, and heavily suggested since it started in 0079.

>>14716771
>people on earth vote to send people to space unwillingly (old men in Mobile Suit Gundam)
>people on earth vote that colony representatives should be assigned by earth government districts (Char and Blex talking in Zeta)
>eventually spacenoids outnumber earthnoids (narrator, Mobile Suit Gundam)
>people on earth never vote to give spacenoids the right to choose their representatives (Char and Blex, Zeta)
Eat a falling colony full of dicks, all you Federast revisionists claiming this wasn't an issue until Unicorn. This was ALWAYS there.

>>14717395
>Thank you for correcting the record

>>14716847
But socialist and welfare states are two different kind of things.
>>14717030
Yep, Zeta shows EFSF to be parliamentary republic
>>14717395
>Federast
That sounds like russian swearing.

>>14716771
The Feds were an absolute democracy?

No fucking way. It wouldn't have lasted so long.

>>14717395
>wasn't an issue until Unicorn
Unicorn? You mean the show with the old guy talking about the emigration age and all the people who willingly went up there? that Unicorn?

Remember the Feddies were literally prepared to give up before Revill escaped

>>14717438
>But socialist and welfare states are two different kind of things.

Same shit really in term of what they want to do.
Look at Bernie with his "democratic socialism."

If anything, it seems in the world of MSG, the Federation is so bloated in term of the population it controls, the distance of travels, the technical difficulty in communication and more that it literally folded like the Roman empire with the Byzantine and the various break away states.

>>14716779
>Unicorn retconned
Hahah there's this meme again

>>14717453
Some people went willingly but a lot of people were forced off. Both narratives are true and have been confirmed in shows other than Unicorn but your hate boner for Unicorn is so fucking irrationally strong your autism will make you ignore that just so you can continue with the UNICORN IS FUCKING GARBAGE RRRRRRRRREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE STOP LIKING POPULAR THINGS

>>14716771
>And I thought the Federation is some kind of evil dictatorship that oppresses the spaciods?
>Has I been lied to?

No.
It's EU-US type democracy.

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>>14716771
Frankly tbe the only show I really liked was "first Gundam"

Which is also the least watched Gundam coincidentally.

Zeon are space Nazis.

All the other Gundam shows are just dedicated to retconning that fact. Because for some reason fans liked Zeon more, edgy and shit.

>>14717575
because sunrise has to pander to japs

>>14717536
What hate boner? I was just the guy pointing out Unicorn took a shit on the notion that every last colonist was forced off the planet, which was one of the things I liked about it.

I'm not a huge fan of the show either, but I think you've got your anons crossed.

>>14717575
>Zeon are space Nazis.
>All the other Gundam shows are just dedicated to retconning that fact.

This is actually incredibly true. Even in Origins, they didn't go nearly as full-Riech as they were in 0079.

>>14717600
Not really. Even in the original, Ghiren was the only truly evil character.

>>14717453
Yes, that Unicorn.
The one that these fucknuggets:
>>14716771
>>14716779
>>14716781
claim introduced actual spacenoid oppression as a retcon because they weren't paying attention during MSG and Zeta.

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>>14717506
>But socialist and welfare states are two different kind of things.

>Same shit really in term of what they want to do.
>Look at Bernie with his "democratic socialism."

I hate hearing people talk about leftism on the internet because.

1. You're never really sure what they mean by leftism/communism/socialism/marxism
2. What they mean to say is usually retarded.

>>14717694
>truly evil
They were all "bad guys", but while Ghiren was a bad guy for being ~Literally Hitler~, the other Zeons were bad guys for simply going along with it.

>>14716771

You do realize that democracy can be just as oppressive as authoritarianism, right? Political systems are vehicles, not the message themselves.

>>14717506
Not the same shit at all. Bernie's "socialism" is a bait for american students and immigrants.

>>14717048
Thunderbolt delved into it very heavily and it was lightly mentioned with Hathaways Flashes novelization and parts of ZZ made mention of how those regions were massive voting blocks, which is why the Federation converted its capital to Dakar.

>>14717694
Ghiren was the only character with literally no redeeming characteristics at all, but there were plenty of Zeon characters who were evil but still had some admirable characteristics to them.

M'Quve, for example, seemed like the only person who was actually bothered by the destruction of Earth's history and culture, but he didn't give a shit about the people who died in the war and he was willing to nuke the Federation forces.

>>14717694
I was speaking in terms of good/evil. Just about how much the zeeks were like Nazis in 0079. In other series, it was much more toned down.

>>14719003
It's to symbolize War time American propaganda in WW2 actually get lesser influence over times.

At first it was the nazi were completely mass murdering psychopaths to now nazis are just soldiers, man.

And it works, 0079 is Fed's propaganda.

>>14717775
Depends entirely on what you mean by "Democracy". You could mean mob rule and be correct, but other definitions of democracy explicitly say mob rule is not democracy. And those later definitions most certainly cannot be as bad as authoritarianism.

For something so integral to the setting the Federation government reeky isn't explained much in "canon" materials. Do the Nation-States like France or Mexico still exist just in a subsidiary role? Would that mean the Federation actually works like a federation where each nation gets a vote? Were all national governments swept away and constituencies are decided in other ways? Does the Federation have an Executive branch? A President? Are there political parties?

>>14720031
Why and how?

There's a representative democracy in South America, but the government is even more brutal than the authoritarianism in Singapore.

>>14720031
FUN FACT:
Hitler was elected.

>>14720093
It's a parliamentary system. The EF is led by the General Assembly (seen when Quadrapussy made his speech at Dakar) and is made up of representatives chosen by member nations. The hang-up about the spacenoid vote is that the representatives of the colonies aren't chosen by the citizens of those colonies, they're chosen by the Assembly and don't even live on the colony they're assigned to represent. Also supposedly there are more voting districts on earth than there are in the colonies despite the vast majority of humanity living in the colonies, but this is from side material and not actually stated in Zeta.

And just to underscore the "colony governments aren't chosen by the colonists", let's look at Side 3 as portrayed in Zeta and ZZ:
In Zeta, the narrator stated that Side-3 is so fiercely anti-Zabi that they have been conducting joint operations with the Titans *without EF approval*.
In ZZ, the EF agree to give Core 3 to Haman Karn, whose whole claim to political power is that she's the caretaker of a Zabi princess.

It should be pretty obvious that the rabidly anti-Zabi people of Core 3 did not vote elect Haman Karn as their leader.

>>14717775
>Political systems are vehicles, not the message themselves.

I guess you could even call them "vessels."

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>>14720209
>In ZZ, the EF agree to give Core 3 to Haman Karn, whose whole claim to political power is that she's the caretaker of a Zabi princess.

I dunno about that. In Zeta the AEUG were gonna hand over Side 3 to Haman as part of their alliance. How the fuck they'd have the authority to do that is anyone's guess. Maybe the Federation just agreed not to oppose Haman taking over Side 3 and recognize her as the official Government or something like that.

>>14717440

It's also blatantly untrue I would think. Absolute democracy is a radical form of direct democracy, and the Federation used elected leaders.

>>14720357
>I dunno about that
Watch ZZ, then. It's part of the conversation when the EF fatfucks tell Bright to disarm the Argama and cease hostilities against Haman.
>How the fuck they'd have the authority
Because the Sides don't get to choose their own representatives and never have, with the sole exception of Munzo rallying behind Zeon Zum Deikun's call for independence.
>Maybe the Federation just agreed not to oppose Haman taking over
Or maybe you didn't watch ZZ? They plainly state that they gave it to her, and as I already said, the people of Side-3 are EXTREMELY anti-Zabi and would want nothing to do with Haman Karn and her Zabi princess.

>>14717395
Feddieshills getting btfo damn

Where were you when the WRONG guy won 0079?

>>14720568
I think he meant how would the AEUG have the authority to give away Side 3, given that they're essentially a terrorist organization financed by a bunch of arms merchants.

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>>14717694
>Ghiren was the only truly evil character
>>14717772
>Ghiren was a bad guy for being ~Literally Hitler~
>>14717974
>Ghiren was the only character with literally no redeeming characteristics at all

>>14720653
Wasn't the argument something like
>IFF we defeat the Titans with your help, we guarantee you ownership of Side 3
which makes sense because, if the Titans are defeated, then the AEUG will no longer be considered a terrorist organization. There were AEUG Federation officers and Titan Federation officers, if the Titans lose, the AEUG Federation officers gain all the influence.

>>14720129
Wrong, The Nazi's never gained the majority of the vote and in-fact seized power by convincing a coalition of right wing power brokers led by Hindenburg to appoint Hitler Chancellor after which he suspended the Democratic process. The idea that the Nazi's were elected dictators is a fiction told because it makes a dramatic cautionary tale.

>>14720891
So what you're saying is vote to make America great again?

>>14720899
If you want a cheap American knock-off of Silvio Berlusconi, then sure.

>>14720031
Is this going to turn into a 'my version of democracy hasn't been tried!' goalpost moving?

>>14716781
What is proportional representation? How people lived in the American Colonies and how many representatives did they get in British parliament as a result?

>>14716942
A perfect real life example of this is examining FIFA and all the corruption in their elections.
>But it's not a government!
Doesn't matter, you still have people voting and they are divided up into regional voting blocks and to no one's surprise, the blocks of Africa and Eurasia have major influence in elections and are extremely corrupt.

>>14720891
The Nazi party still received the most votes out of all the parties running in the 1930 elections onwards, which gave them the first opportunity to create a coalition government. You're conflating a majority system with a plurality system to imply that democracy was somehow subverted and therefore cannot be blamed as a part of Hitler's rise of power is asinine.