What good is Leiji Matsumoto for? >can't fucking draw

>>14638020
That's not how you spell Go Nagai.

Manga is a shit medium.

>>14638020
>one man is so autistic he has to spam these fucking threads
Take it to >>>/a/ faggot

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>>14638020

By that criteria, anon, does your own life have any value?

>>14638028
Go Nagai can actually draw and write though.

Leiji Matsumoto is so bad that he relies on shitty tv anime studios like toei to make good out of his crappy art.

>durr hurr character x is going to punch character y
>how am i going to display this?
>oh i know! i'll just draw a fist in a panel and call it a day

>nevermind about drawing legs
>I can't either

Yeah sure, you got me there. Lazy Matsumoto is good. Hope that helps you sleep at night.

>>14638054
Leiji Matsumodo can actually draw and write though.

/thread now fuck off

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>>14638070
>Leiji Matsumodo can actually draw and write though.
I didn't know Matsumotofags were that delusional.

>>14638020

Cool looking hats?

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>cartoons aren't suppose to look like cartoons

>>14639033
Cartoons are shit and for children and autists.
We like anime here.

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>>14639038
>Cartoons are shit and for children and autists.
>We like anime here.

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Why isn't this shitposter banned yet?

>>14639753

That's Maki Miyako.

>>14639753
>>14639758

If anything, Lazy probably only did the squirrels and the old man

>>14638041
#REKT

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>>14639758
Google Images gives me mixed results. Either way that doesn't answer my question.

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>>14639763
>If anything, Lazy probably only did the squirrels and the old man
kek

>>14638020
Giving you ass pain.

>>14638020
>What good is Leiji Matsumoto for?
Well, unlike you he singlehandedly created space opera, characters that are highly influential to this day, a unique artstyle that is influential to this this day and even designed IRL vehicles.
Oh, and unlike Nagai and his clique he received the medal of the Order of the Rising Sun and the Ordre des Arts et des Lettres, both for his significant contribution to both japanese and foreign culture.

So he's a very good artist, surely not as technically skilled as Tezuka, but he's universally acknowledged as one of the most important men in his medium, and surely a better artist that you.

The thing he's arguably best at though is triggering a poor useless spic who can't even properly read manga but thinks his worthless opinion amounts to something other than shitposting.

So, spic, let's get down to business, what good are you for?
You can't draw, you can't read children's manga and you can't read japanese either, what value is there in your existence?

>>14640088
This has to be a falseflag. I refuse to believe otherwise else I might go crazy. 100/10

>>14640088
>he singlehandedly created space opera

Stopped reading here.

>>14640088
>Order of the Rising Sun
Great. A criminal empire gave him a medal.

>Ordre des Arts et des Lettres
>frogs

>>14640163
>Criminal empire
>an award based on an order created decades before Matsumoto was even born, issued to him decades after the empire's dissolution, made by an Emperor that had absolutely no part in WWII

Do you not know anything about honor systems?

>implying ww2 was the only crime that dirty nips committed

>>14640199
>Expecting the spic to know anything

>>14640261
>spic

There's only one single post by me in this thread and it's right here: >>14639758

>>14638028
Go Nagai was actually subversive with Cutie Honey and DevilMan, he was pretty modern. Matsumoto is known only because of his anime adaptations

>>14641140
There are multiple spics. There's Pablo, Mario, and José. Each one dedicated to making awful threads and being unable to follow simple paneling.

>>14641295
Cutey Honey manga is shittier than anything by Matsumoto.

>>14641302
Cutie Honey had boobies in 70's Japan tho
It's not the "Ashita no Joe" kind of subversive but is still nice

>>14641302
I just picked up the official release of Queen Emeraldas and the writing and art are really great.

>>14641297

Oh, I see.

>>14641297
Mario is the Italian.

Matsumoto is a lazy writer who always writes the same techno-phobic shit, and his action scenes suck total ass.

Any other old school manga artist is better than Matsumoto; Tezuka, Ishinomori, Yokoyama, Mizuki, Terasawa, Kurumada, Nagai, Takahashi, Chiba, Akiyama, Sato, Koike. You name it. Literally everyone is better than him.

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>he can't draw
Haven't properly read enough of his stuff yet (I'll go through Harlock and what was scanlated of the Galaxy Express manga soon) so I can't comment on the writing at this point, but I explained to you on length that even though I think Ishinomori's art is more flawed than some of his contemporaries, he was still a good artist. I posted multiple examples of Ishinomori art showing off both technical skill and inventiveness. Your response? Bringing up off-site drama and posting a drawing I made as ~ultimage ownage~ because you recognized my posting style but couldn't think of a way to counter my points.

A couple of bullet points:

-He had technical skill and could draw very solidly as seen in his mechanical drawings
-He was very, very good at drawing pin-ups, better than all the other old-school cartoony manga artists who tried
-He had an inventive and unique sense of design as best exemplified in his weirder humans and his animals
-His paneling & compositions could be atmospheric & make good use of contrast
-His inking style was very personal and skillfully controlled

I won't repeat myself by going more in-depth so just read the last thread http://desuarchive.org/m/thread/14553321/#14553982

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If you have any respect for good panelling, good art, good storytelling, don't read anything by Matsumoto.

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>>14641476
You shot yourself in the foot in the last thread by posting a wonderfully cinematic and easily readable Matsumoto scene and going "WTF IS GOING ON THIS IS HORRIBLE"

You're the one with garbage taste

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>>14641488
This one's more basic but the fact that you can't understand it shows that you fundamentally can't read comics.

>guy rides his horse behind the rock formation
>get killed by something
>wandering tiny guy discovers their corpses

>>14641472
>He had technical skill and could draw very solidly as seen in his mechanical drawings
I've seen way better mechanical stuff from Ken Ishikawa, and even Go Nagai.

>-He was very, very good at drawing pin-ups, better than all the other old-school cartoony manga artists who tried
Anyone can do pin ups as good as Matsumoto (Definitely) and better and I assure you that skill is absolutely useless because manga is not about fucking pin ups all the time.

>He had an inventive and unique sense of design as best exemplified in his weirder humans and his animals
Kek. Those are just his terrible art at work. He can't draw people so he hacks his way through.

>-His paneling & compositions could be atmospheric & make good use of contrast
Please. I've seen way better panelling from guys like Kurumada.

>-His inking style was very personal and skillfully controlled
Again see above. His inking looks absolute dog shit. It's perhaps the worst part about his art.

>>14641488
>easily readable Matsumoto
That page looks like absolute garbage. The panelling is all over the place.

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>I've seen way better mechanical stuff from Ken Ishikawa, and even Go Nagai.
Ishikawa is one of the best manga artists even as far as I'm concerned so I won't say Leiji is better than him. Besides my point wasn't that he was a genius at drawing mechanical things, just that it showed solid three-dimensional drawing.
>Anyone can do pin ups as good as Matsumoto (Definitely)
Ishinomori was absolutely HORRIBLE at exaggerating body parts in an erotic way (despite being otherwise a fantastic artist), Tezuka even did an autobiographical thing where he admitted he was not very good at it. Monkey Punch drew ok bodies but gave them awkward faces.
>His inking looks absolute dog shit. It's perhaps the worst part about his art.
>Kek. Those are just his terrible art at work. He can't draw people so he hacks his way through.

You sound like Theron Martin from ANN. "It's this way because I say it is, I won't go in-depth and explain this opinion because my word is final."

You've also yet to explain how Gosaku Ota is a good artist beyond "he learned from good artists".

Yeah, he can copy some of what Nagai and Ishikawa did. Most of it he executes much, much worse. Leiji's art is purpusefully cartoony in a way that's controlled while Ota's characters randomly start looking like deformed midgets even in the middle of dead serious scenes. He seems like the kind of artist who can't make something look good unless spending a very long time on it.

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>>14641522
What are you having trouble with? It flows perfectly and the way that one panel focuses on the glisten in the guy's eye before the cowboys get killed is cool as fuck.

What manga is that? It seems fantastic.

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>>14641548
Oh also the way it zooms in on his face to begin with. I wonder if the FF black mage got inspired by the "face in shadow with sparkling dot eyes" thing that Leiji did for multiple characters? It's one of my favorite design things since I was a little kid, at least one mech in Five Star Stories has it too.

>>14641542
>You've also yet to explain how Gosaku Ota is a good artist beyond "he learned from good artists".

He actually drew people, and action scenes. That's a start.

>>14641472
>-He was very, very good at drawing pin-ups, better than all the other old-school cartoony manga artists who tried

I'm not even the guy you're discussing with, but that's only your opinion. I see nothing special in those Matsumoto pin-ups, they look all the same for me. I see no appeal in any of those you're always posting.

Why should I trust what you say on this matter? I would rather trust in my eyes than some random guy on the internet with the only argument of "it's so stylized and appealing" like it's worth a damn. You don't mean anything by saying that other than "I like it".

>>14641548
Well ok /m/, let's just say that he was a good guy, had his ups and downs, was sometimes good in drawing, sometimes bad, was sometimes good and sometimes bad in panelling (more often the second option tho) to finally end this thread

>>14641564
>He actually drew people
So did Ishinomori, with far more consistent stylization. Why the would the proportions of Ota's characters constantly switch to that midget look? You could say it's a "comedy scene chibi" thing but it happens time and time again during the most dramatic moments. It looks like he was rushing it because he couldn't draw fast enough to meet a deadline.

Space opera manga doesn't focus on the kind of "battle scenes" that a shonen super robot manga does so it's an apples and oranges comparison.

I just noticed the old man in panel 2 of >>14641542 has six fingers.

I honestly think this guy is just fucking around by this point or more likely pulling a "JOKE'S ON YOU I WAS TROLLING ALL ALONG" by defending Ota because he got owned when he was being serious, but I still think he could start a "Leiji can't draw" meme amongst newfags if I don't call him out given this site's history

>>14641548
No it's not. The guy can't tell a story without text, his panelling is bad. Not everybody can be Bastien Vivès

I think this manga is Galaxy Express 999, but I may be (and am probably) wrong

>>14641613
>I honestly think this guy is just fucking around by this point or more likely pulling a "JOKE'S ON YOU I WAS TROLLING ALL ALONG" by defending Ota because he got owned when he was being serious, but I still think he could start a "Leiji can't draw" meme amongst newfags if I don't call him out given this site's history


You're the hero no one asked for, BusterBeam.

>>14641589
Direct me to a full chapter of a Leiji manga with mostly bad drawings and paneling.

>>14641622
>The guy can't tell a story without text
I can't read Japanese and you should know that given that you keep drawing attention to who I am. The fact that I could make sense of the pages you posted despite that fact proves you're full of shit.

Not /m/

>>14638020
Can you please just shut the fuck up already? I don't even give much of a shit about this guy personally (although I'm sure he's very important and one day I'll probably read something by him) but even i find your whining obnoxious

>>14641656
true kek I didn't post any page

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>>14641630
>>14641589
I just downloaded the biggest batch of Galaxy Express I could find on Madokami and I'm currently skimming through it. 4 chapters in and I can count the amount of obviously rushed drawings on one hand which is a pretty good track record when taking into account that specific period, its work environment and comparing it to other similar artists of the time.

>>14641690
Your posts are extremely easy to spot dude.

>>14641717
I swear I didn't post any page. i talked about how I think his panelling is bad and the fact that he had his "ups and donws". That's all. For real

>>14641736
The way you spell it as "panelling" and your constant use of "kek" gives it away.

>>14641736

I believe in you. BusterBeam is so dumb he can't tell when he's discussing with more than one person. If you ever disagree with what he says, he will immediately assume you're the same guy who disagreed with him before. It works like this:

Anonymous: I don't like the animation in this specific 70s TV show.

BusterBeam: You might be one of those who complains about Gundam 0079 animation because of QUALITY!

That's how simple his mind works.

>>14641756
Sorry, english's not my maternal language. In french it's "découpage de planche", which i thought was "panelling", looking at the coms in this thread.
I just used kek once. Sorry not being your man

>>14641828
Keyword being "might be"; the consensus in anime fandom is that 0079 is particularly badly animated when it's pretty above-average when compared to other shows of its time.

>>14641462
>Techno babble
Confirmed you never read anything by him.

>>14641905
Technophobic means something radically different.

That guy's a fag but come on dude.

>>14641933
Read it wrong. That's even worse since it's what gives his designs a unique look. They don't try to mimic real technology and that's the appeal. The futuristic towns are like something from the 50s.

>>14641962

Matsumoto likes to draw machinery, but he don't have a very high opinion on technology achievement. That's why he never does main characters as robots, cyborgs, androids or anything thing like that. He says he can't trust in anything who is not 100% human flesh. Wonder what his views on robotic prosthesis are like. Galaxy Express has people keeping their conscience intact but getting robot bodies so they can live forever. He thinks that is disgusting and you should accept your fate and die like a human being. That's what a "true men" should do. Women are not real people in Matsumoto universe.

He also has a thing for pedophile women, I might add. A lot of his stories involve a idealized adult grown women in an awkward romantic relationship with little boys. To add a little bit of incest in the mix, sometimes this woman is the exact image of their mother.

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>>14642036
Literally what the fuck are you talking about. Maetel is a mother figure to Tetsuro. I think the problem is on your side, Mario.

You think Leiji doesn't consider women real people when characters like Emeraldas, Maetel, and their mother are central characters in their universe. Emeraldas is considered on-par with Captain Harlock.

Also, humanity relying too much on machines is a common scifi trope and I don't see why you're trying to use that to rationalize your hatred of Leiji. Your posts reads like something fucking Clawshrimpy would write. All it's missing is a mention of "toxic masculinity."

I don't get the obsession with complaining about lack of action scenes either. It's not Kamen rider.

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>>14642095
>Literally what the fuck are you talking about. Maetel is a mother figure to Tetsuro. I think the problem is on your side, Mario.

How often did you tried to spy on your mother taking a bath and how many times did she french kissed you?

>You think Leiji doesn't consider women real people when characters like Emeraldas, Maetel, and their mother are central characters in their universe. Emeraldas is considered on-par with Captain Harlock.

Have you forgot how Emeraldas's main focus in life is wander in the universe because she lost Tochiro? Her entire life was based in worshiping and living for HIS dream. It doesn't help Tochiro was also Matsumoto self-insert character. It's the same between Maetel and Tetsuro, Leiji's "real" women are there to support a central "real man" figure. Their characterization is very flawed in this aspect. Leiji's women have no dreams of their own. The same is also true for Miime in Harlock.

>Also, humanity relying too much on machines is a common scifi trope and I don't see why you're trying to use that to rationalize your hatred of Leiji. Your posts reads like something fucking Clawshrimpy would write. All it's missing is a mention of "toxic masculinity."

Asimov, Heinlein and Clarke were all very critical of it and considered that kind of story cheap plot devices. Demonizing and putting all the blame in technology is not something that would go well with most of the best science fiction writers. It's an rather simplistic view of how technology affects our world. Now, I don't mind that kind of story at all and good stuff came out from it, but it's still cheap writing from a science fiction standpoint.

>>14639033
Mizuki actually drew stuff though. He wasn't a workaholic who killed himself thirty years earlier than he should have from exhaustion like Tezuka or Ishinomori, but he drew a hell of a lot more than Leiji.

>it's a "busterbeam makes another non-/m/ thread about shitty old manga no one cares about so he can keep posting the same shit over and over again" thread

>>14642164
Go away, Clawshrimpy. You're clearly too dense to understand what the ending to GE999 was about. I'll even help you -- it was about him finally growing up and that kiss symbolized it.

>Have you forgot how Emeraldas's main focus in life is wander in the universe because she lost Tochiro? Her entire life was based in worshiping and living for HIS dream.

I see you also can't relate to the loss of a love one. Not to mention Emeraldas clearly states that she won't tell the protag her goals in Queen Emeraldas. Not even the reader finds out. Try reading it sometime when you get the chance.

>>14642190
My reverse-psychology troll OPs usually have more substance than that, and all the old manga I talk about is good.

Why are all these threads just the same two people pointlessly arguing.

>>14642322

Sure thing. My bad for not understanding Matsumoto's genius.

About Emeraldas, maybe you should read more. Because Queen Emeraldas is not the only manga she shows up. Now I'm going to do something more productive with my time.

And Clawshrimpy is like a confuse and lost child. No reason to bring him into this. I can't even tell why do you guys bother with him.

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I want to marry Sinunora

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>>14642347
Your arguments read exactly like something that he would write. And because Emeraldas' backstory changes depending on the work, makes your argument entirely pointless bullshit.

>>14642342
/m/ isn't really that massive but it's funny to read this same dumb argue the same thing all over again

>>14638020
Why does he look so fucking sad?

>>14645965
Because he's Leiji Matsumoto

>>14645965
Because he knows retards like OP exist.

>>14645965

He knows he made a fortune out of being a hack. It's his conscience acting.

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>>14645965
Because he's a hypocrite and when death gets near he's going to go full robot. Leiji a total pussy because he ain't a 'real man' and he knows it.

>>14640088
Fuck you! I'm a spic and I love Matsumoto. I know many others that do as well.

>>14638020
Why is does everything he does is boring as fuck? The only bearable one was Yamato.

>>14645965
Because someone went trought that effort just to waste time.

>>14654044

That's because Yamato is not his creation. It's like saying Gundam was created by Yoshikazu Yasuhiko and Kunio Okawara. The difference is that there's no Tomino, just Hajime Yadate. Yamato was made by several different people.

>>14655182
He didn't even get into Yamato until about halfway through that show's production, while Nishizaki and some others have been in it from the start.

>>14655207
Yes and he salvaged it and made the show what it is. There's shit loads of articles on what he did at Star Blazers.

>>14655423

Written by the time he had control over the franchise and produced crap after crap. Have you ever read of Great Yamato? Dai Yamato Zero-go? That's what happens when you give Leiji's full control.

>>14654044
Which wasn't even his to begin with.

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>>14655433
>Written by the time he had control over the franchise

He never had real control over the franchise and is one of the reasons Great Yamato is unfinished. Dai yamato Zero-go is a slot game that was released on DVD with all the animated footage.

>>14657691
The original plan before he got involved is so radically different it might as well not even be Yamato. Read up on it before you talk.

>>14638020
He has like five cool character designs that other people have made cool shit with.