Which Cyborg 009 series is better to start with, the 1979 version

There's no decent subs for the second half of the 2001 one and there's only some of the 1979 one subbed.

The series is criminally ignored by westerners

>>14606510
I think the 2001 one was dubbed but I don't know how far that goes.

>dubbed
Yeah I know but sometimes you gotta take what you can get.

You'd think Discotek would've picked this up by now...

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>>14606510
1966 movie and then the 68 serie already half subbed by Skaro.
Funny enough, the 3 series are around half subbed.

>>14606602
Dub only goes to 26

>>14606510

The 2001 is a faithful adaptation of the original manga. The 1979 series is a pseudo-sequel to something that never existed and requires you to know the characters beforehand. They were supposed to be well known by the general public when it came out, so no origin provided.

>>14606637
Dub should go all the way, or at least dubtitles? Well, all but one.

>>14606670
The only released 26 episodes on DVD. The rest were never released.

>>14606637

Wrong, you can find all episodes dubbed.

>>14606625

Why the 68 series?

>>14606624
Sony has the rights... and they're dicks.

>>14606518
I remember catching some episodes on Cartoon Network Latin America.
That channel had some really obscure anime airing. I also remember Nadja. This was the mid 2000s.

>>14606717
He seems to have all the Nora Inu subs for the 70s one (via VHS), but needs the Blu-ray raws to proceed. In the meantime, he can freely do the 68 one (when he's not multitasking, anyway).

>>14606645
>They were supposed to be well known by the general public when it came out, so no origin provided.
More shows and movies need to do this when adapting well known characters. How many times does one need to see an origin story?

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Read what was translated of the manga. Aside from a few rushed looking stories it's some of the best cartoony post-Tezuka manga art I've ever seen with really wonderful paneling.

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>>14610956

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>>14610958
And this sequence is probably the best example of Ishinomori's great sense for paneling in V1

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>>14610959

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>>14610961

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>>14610962

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>>14606645
>The 2001 is a faithful adaptation of the original manga.
No, it's not; at times it's more of a reimagining. Like the haunted house story or the vietnam arc.

What I'm saying is you should check out both the manga & anime; they're both good.

>>14606625

And the entire manga is half-translated. It's like a curse.

I tried reading the manga a while ago but at some point it got confusing as if they retconned some stuff.

>>14614812

What? They didn't, some chapters got rearranged because it switched magazines. But it's very early on, the entire "Journey" arc is made out of several stories cut and pasted together, but not originally supposed to be that way originally. The entire first run works like this:

Birth arc
Assassins arc
Vietnam arc
Mythos arc
Underground Empire of Yomi arc

Then there's isolated stories that doesnt't really fit in any of those, most of them were included in this "Journey arc" that follows right after Assassins in the volumes compilation. It's basically about the cyborgs doing some errands and fighting Black Ghost while they were wandering in their stolen submarine. These were not originally tied together. There's a bit of a controversy when some of these chapters introduced kid 007 because of executive meddling related to the first 009 movie and Toei. That's the only idea Ishinomori decide to completely ignore later on.

Then there's Phantom Dog and Golden Lion, those are one-shots and could take place at anytime around those events.

Anyone have a torrent of the translated bits of the manga?

Just read the manga

>tfw have the first six volumes of the manga

Vertical Inc need to pick that shit up again

>>14617538
I would also be interested, we were at 17 volumes in France when the publication stopped, but I heard that the serie wasn't entirely translated in english either. I the serie worth reading anyway ?

>>14620840

It's a great manga, one of my favorites of all time. And if you don't want to spend your life reading all 770 different titles Ishinomori has made, it's also the best way to get a glimpse of his entire career since the 60s. 009 was the only title he kept working on for the majority of his active years. So there's plenty of different styles and plots. The series also grew up with its readers, so the late stories are almost unrecognizable if compared to the early years. But it has an overall consistent quality to it.

But that said, it's a very hard sell overseas. First because it's old and Ishinomori's name is not nearly as recognizable as Tezuka's in the west. Authors like Shigeru Mizuki were lucky since his life history itself is so impressive people were willing to take a chance at his war stories (while ignoring the supernatural stuff he truly loved and is beloved for in his homeland). Cyborg 009 also has no nostalgia value for any country in the world except for Italy (and guess what? J-Pop published the entire series and it sold well there). If the anime was brought to France at the right time, it could have had a huge following today like Albator or Goldorak.

The 2001 series was possibly one of the best anime of the past decade, but it was just not your average otaku cup of tea. It's beloved by a considerable amount of people who gave the series a fair chance, but that's it.

>>14622946
So even without an ending it's still worth a read ?

But it was entirely published in Italy ? So even if the french publication is stopped I can still read the end in italian, good. I don't speak italian but it's better than japanese I guess.
I will go through the 17 volumes we already have and then I will certainly go for the italian release. Did you have a link to the italian scans (if it exist) ?

It's a shame that Ishinomori's work is so hard to find, even in France which is one of the biggest consumer of manga after Japan, we had a lot of tezuka's, Matsumoto's, Nagai's and even the yokai stuff that Mizuki did, but we had less than 10 Ishinomori's series.

>>14623348
>Matsumoto'
For shame. That man's a hack of an artist. Yet people suck his cock because of the Toei animated Harlock.

>>14623377
Please, we talk about Ishinomori here, I was mentionning Matsumoto only because he is an artist from the same time period and he has drawn a lot of Sci-Fi series.
I'm kind of agree with you, his stories are far from flawless, but they have a certain charm, and some of his shorter works like Queen Emeraldas are quite good in a lot of point.
Simply read it as a historical source, a glimpse of what a part of the industry was in the 70s, ther is no need to be upset at the mere mention of it's name.

>>14623430
He's a horrible artist who can't draw shit.

Matsumoto, sci fi writer, whatever. Manga artist? Fuck no. He's an insult to manga artists worldwide.

>>14623446
Hi Mario

>>14623446
Well anon that was an interesting fact you present me there, I'll think about it deeply.

>>14606510
2001 but absolutely nobody wants to sub and re encode it. I went to great lengths to ask around and every person i asked was like, 'nah, not feelin it".

I would do it but I lack the skill set.

>>14623348
>So even without an ending it's still worth a read ?

Well, there's 2 attempts at a ending in the main series. The Angels and the Battle of the Gods arcs. It's interesting as an experiment, but you don't really need to take an ending into account. 009 is a series Ishinomori could always get back and write new stories. The first run had more of an over-reaching story, while the stuff that came after it is more like the cyborgs solving mysterious cases around the world or about their personal lives. Later on there's a Neo Black Ghost, but they act more like recurrent villains than a big threat to be defeated like the former Black Ghost. 009 can be a series about pretty much anything Ishinomori was interested or reading about during its run, it can be science fiction, action adventure, avant-garde, slice of life, drama, horror... It's really hard to define it all in a single genre. You can argue the story ended with the Underground Empire of Yomi back in the middle 60s, but the characters live on and can be brought back together at any minute. Some stories are more inspired than the others, but as a whole, there's always something to enjoy about it. I guess Ishinomori felt he needed something BIG to put a end to it all, but the fact alone that he decided to start something like that almost 20 years after the last story has been published shows that the manga could stand by its own pretty well. It was more about fan pressure than anything else. He promised that ending and never got a chance to do it until he passed away.

>It's a shame that Ishinomori's work is so hard to find, even in France which is one of the biggest consumer of manga after Japan, we had a lot of tezuka's, Matsumoto's, Nagai's and even the yokai stuff that Mizuki did, but we had less than 10 Ishinomori's series.

And yet, you guys are doing better than the rest of the world. Sabu and Ichi, Kuzuryu, Hokusai, Kamen Rider, Eros X Sf, Ryu no Michi and others... That's a lot compared to us!

>>14623348
>Did you have a link to the italian scans (if it exist) ?

I'm sorry, I don't think they exist anywhere... I bought the entire series while they were being released. The italian edition came pretty fast! In about a year they release all the 27 volumes (it's 36 volumes in other publications, but the Italian version used the Ishinomori Complete Collection version as a basis).

>>14623446
>Matsumoto, sci fi writer, whatever.

It's hard to give Matsumoto a pass as a science fiction writer when his characters breathe air in space and his stories have a very technophobic feel to it. He was not even subtle about how much anti-progress he was, reminds me of something like Orwell's 1984 and all those old people and their "the old ways are always better" mindsets.

>>14623446
You tried and failed last Leji thread
>>>/a/
You will NEVER surpass the spic. Might as well end your troll ambitions now

>>14624125
Nice samefag dude!

>>14624184
What is it about the spics anyway?

>>14624195

Yeah, sure.

>>14624058
>>14624067
I see, thanks for your help anon, it's not that easy to find info on this serie.

>you guys are doing better than the rest of the world
That's why it's depressing, there were a lot of fantastic authors in the 50s to 70s but we only get a fraction of it, and even the countries that have more old series than the rest of the world have a handfull of titles.

>>14624125
You could criticize Matsumoto for his conservatism,even if there is more complexity in his works than simply that, but comparing it with Orwell is nonsense.
Orwell never favour "the old way" he was simply a british who wasn't
enthusiastic about that "new way of doing thing" that was Stalin's USSR, and he was quite right about it.
1984 was more a warning about the possible abuses of such a gouvernement, at a time were a lot of people were seduced by those ideas but didn't know what was going on out there.
It was durring the 70s with a book called "the gulag archipelago" that people realise Orwell was kind of right, at least in Europe, and particularly in France.
Reducing such a book to a simple conservative work is quite sad, a book that was wrote in 1949 should always been seen as a product of it's time and not judge by today standards.

>not subbed or dubbed

Funny how I can get the series in Arabic, but not in English. What kind of sick world is this?

>busterbeam posting ITT
This diaper autist literally watches Digimon and One Piece. Get a trip so I can filter you. You are the new Clawshrimpy.

>>14625245
>New
Isn't there a new one already?

>>14606602
Both dubs were fine, though.
Christ I want the /a/ meme to stop.

>>14625254
He might be busterbeam as well. It wouldn't be the first time he pretended to be someone else.
>[Don’t change your username and email address to pretend you’re someone else entirely. I’m reverting it back from “Dead Leaves White Knight.” Reflect on the fact that you’ve been banned from ANN and are currently on probation at SA. –Daryl]
http://www.awopodcast.com/2011/01/anime-world-order-show-91-breaking-the-rrrrruuule.html

>>14625277
It would be weird if they were since I don't think busterbeam even likes Diebuster.

>>14625209
>Reducing such a book to a simple conservative work is quite sad, a book that was wrote in 1949 should always been seen as a product of it's time and not judge by today standards.

Well, that might be true. But it seems other science fiction writers were really critical towards Orwell's portrayal of the future, not only in the political context, but in more subtle ways. Here's some bits from a essay written by Isaac Asimov:

Orwell lacks the capacity to see (or invent) small changes. His hero finds it difficult in his world of 1984 to get shoelaces or razor blades. So would I in the real world of the 1980s, for so many people use slip-on shoes and electric razors.

Then, too, Orwell had the technophobic fixation that every technological advance is a slide downhill. Thus, when his hero writes, he 'fitted a nib into the penholder and sucked it to get the grease off. He does so 'because of a feeling that the beautiful creamy paper deserved to be written on with a real nib instead of being scratched with an ink-pencil'.

Presumably, the 'ink-pencil' is the ball-point pen that was coming into use at the time that 1984 was being written. This means that Orwell
describes something as being written' with a real nib but being 'scratched' with a ball-point.
This is, however, precisely the reverse of the truth. If you are old enough to remember steel pens, you will remember that they scratched fearsomely, and you know ball-points don't.

This is not science fiction, but a distorted nostalgia for a past that never was. I am surprised that Orwell stopped with the steel pen and that he didn't have Winston writing with a neat goose quill.

Nor was Orwell particularly prescient in the strictly social aspects of the future he was presenting, with the result that the Orwellian world of 1984 is incredibly old-fashioned when compared with the real world of the
1980s.

If you want to check the rest, here's the complete text:

http://www.newworker.org/ncptrory/1984.htm

>>14625317
As much as I love Asimov, he seem to judge a 1949 books by 1980s standards, which is wrong. And you have to considere that many of european intellectuals (that include sci-fi author, but my knowledge of the sci-fi landscape of 1949 is vague) at the time were not against the idea of communism, and thus respond negatively to a critisism against it.

Plus, Asimov is an american author (born in Russia but never raised there) with US values and beliefs, he lived in a golden age for his country, and it's only logical that he has, like many other US citizen, a strong faith in technology, as US machines were accomplishing miracles in the 60s.
Orwell is british, and the UK has a different way of seeing things, technology destroyed many of british lives (all the textile industry has been mechanised for instance, and many farmer had to quit there houses and move to town due to the mechanisation of agriculture), and Orwell is simply not as enthousiastic as the US citizen.
It may seem reactionary, but his conservatism is more like a warning and a doubt against technology.
For Orwell, the technological progress of men is not always a viable solution to our problems, where Asimov solve many of his books conflict thanks to technology, or at least has never questioned it. But as it is irrelevant to reduce Orwell as a mere reactionary, we can't reduce Asimov as a naive techno-enthusiastic, they're both major authors of their time, and they're both representant of two different ways of seeing the future or the Science-Fiction genre.

The link you sent is still very interesting tho.

>>14625317
>Orwell lacks the capacity to see (or invent) small changes. His hero finds it difficult in his world of 1984 to get shoelaces or razor blades.
the whole point was that everything was shit and scarcity was everywhere to intentionally keep everybody miserable

>>14625385

The same standard from which his own books should be judged, I guess. Since Asimov started his writing career back in 1939. So he was aware of 1984 since it came out, even thought that review was from the 1980s.

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>>14625429
>So would I in the real world of the 1980s, for so many people use slip-on shoes and electric razors

>>14625445
But the critic came out after it, and the jugement of Asimov depend of the of orwell's inaccurate predictions.
But I guess he disliked the book even back in 1949 due to his pessimistic vision of the future, but it's just a speculation at this point.