Since we've outed Matsumoto as the biggest manga hack, who's

Also Matsumoto

He's not a hack at all, but mecha fanbabies are so blinded by their obsession with Patlabor they can't accept someone doing something slightly different from the tone of the main series.

>>14553749
I used to think Oshii was a hack, but then I read his interviews and realized he was a pretty cool guy. His opinions about others in the anime industry like Miyazaki and Anno are 100% spot-on as well.

Everyone's a hack.

>>14553749
Your favorite.

>>14553792
Can you point us to any? I've heard plenty of OPINIONS about Oshii on /m/ but I've never seen a translated interview.

>>14553910
Just google Mamoru Oshii interviews. There's a truckload. This is the one where he slaps everyone's shit, including Anno, Miyazaki, and Hosoda:

http://www.otakuusamagazine.com/Newsletter/News1/Mamoru_Oshii_The_most_opinionated_man_in_anime_4973.aspx

>>14553792
>>14553939
talking shit about other hacks doesn't make you based

Hideaki Anno. No contest.

>>14553873
/thread desu desu fampais

>>14554335

that's not how you spell tomino.

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This thread is just another shit attempt to sway /m/'s opinion by some /a/utist with an irrational hatred for Matsumoto after getting BTFO in the Harlock thread:
>>14553325
>>14553339
>>14553938
>>14553956
>>14553985

Don't bump, it's trash bait anyway.

>>14553873

Some are more hacks than others.

>>14553749
see
>>14553788

Also Patlabor 2 really wasn't as huge a tonal departure as noafags like to admit. Yeah it's the most serious part of the series, but there's still a lot of dry humor, and Patlabor in general's always had a melancholy streak bubbling under the surface to begin with.

>>14553749

Oshii sort of like David Cronenberg or Michael Mann: he's made a handful of really outstanding movies and a bunch of middling stuff, but even his worst output is still interesting to analyze and pick apart.

>>14555491

Same goes for Anno and Tomino really

>>14555487
It's still a crappier, philosophy-jammed version of a story already told in the OVA.

>>14555533
Which is why the second movie should have just been a sequel to the OVA's story. It even ended with a hint that Kai would come back.

No one who makes Red Spectacles can be a hack.

Their head up their own ass maybe, but not a hack.

>>14554019

Actually I agree with what he's saying. Hosoda is good at making things that are regarded well and profitable, but generally aren't very creative. Anno has lost his spark for a long time now. And he's definitely right about Miyazaki, it's bad for a person to become someone you can't criticize.

>>14555620

Red Spectacles is love.

>>14555533

>crappier

y tho

>>14555629
Sup Reifag

>>14555649
This meme is getting laughably out of control. Keep it contained in evageeks.

>>14555649

Actually I prefer Asuka. Rei is the most stable of the girls in the fact that there's nothing there for the most part. But it also makes her boring.

Wait, this is the wrong thread.

>>14555487
>>14555533

Problem with Patlabor 2 is that it's a very Japanese story, told to people who would be aware of Japanese politics at the time: the end of Japan's long period of prosperity, the JSDF's increasing intervention in overseas affairs (in 1992 they were authorized to take part in a variety of UN operations, and in 1993 the JSDF actually sent forces to Mozambique as part of a UN operation), Japan's peace relative to many other nations in the world and its relative insularity, and even older events like the plot by rogue army elements to stage a coup when the emperor surrendered. So it's meaningful to Japanese audiences, but for non-Japanese these plot points don't really resonate.

>>14558005
So much this. But for a politics buff, the film is a god-sent.

>>14558005
P2 isn't even close to being Oshii's most boring pretentious movie.

>>14558005

I know almost nothing about Japanese politics but I freaking love Patlabor 2 just as a movie.

>>14558005
What didn't resonated with me is why Gotoh lost the Shinobu Bowl and what was antagonist's main motive behind creating all these chaos ?
Shake the post-war peace loving pampered Japanese how war/terrorism feels like?

>>14559392
>why Gotoh lost the Shinobu Bowl
TVfag pls

>>14553939
>But like (Evangelion director) Hideaki Anno, there’s nothing driving him, no theme, no substance.”
Well, he's completely wrong here. Anno is obviously driven by his autism and his struggle to communicate, and that is the theme of everything he makes.

>>14559453
Random guy on youtube understands Anno more than Oshii does
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ntZhZKOy1o
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jn51kU-n0Fo

>>14559510
>Digibro supporter

Kill yourself.

>>14558389

No that's Stray Dog by a longshot

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>>14555491
I've never seen another person admit to appreciating Michael Mann in the same light as other mainstream auteurs. Heat is a masterpiece sensitively and intelligently engaging with a variety of prescient themes even if it never strays from the confines of the crime film genre but Mann gets almost no recognition in film criticism

However, I wouldn't say he's comparable to Oshii. His obsession with and willingness to divert entertaining drama towards his thematic and philosophical preoccupations via intrusive monologues (something Mann or Cronenberg would never do) are similar to Godard or Pasolini, though far more amateur - and he doesn't experiment with form, his work is pretty conservative relative to the cinematic avant-garde he takes reference from, despite being in a unique position straddling film & animation.

Gosenzo-sama/MAROKO is the one exception. I don't know why he hasn't returned to that level of radicalness, I'm sure he could get away with it now easily. I guess he got used to restraining himself to get away with what he did in his earlier films.

I don't blame him for his smugness over anime. The fans are fucking retarded. They still think NGE's ending is unclear and have a comic book nerd's understanding of reading art.

>>14559510
Fuck off

>>14559516
What's wrong with supporting Digibro? His videos are great.

>>14559719
What are you talking about? Critics love Mann. They're the only ones who gave Blackhat a chance

>>14553749
guess his artistic record is much like his military record.

>>14559719

Oshii's position as an auteur really always has been a weird one. He's never quite fully embraced the crazy side the way his influences did, but he takes enough influence from them that he doesn't 100% fit comfortably with others in the mainstream, either.

Although if you wanna compare him to Mann or Cronenberg thematically, then you might actually have something.

>>14559392

Because Goto never really had a chance in the OVA/movie continuity to begin with.

Plus, Goto actually winning the Shinobubowl just feels weird and out of character. Even in that one New Files episode, I never got the sense that it was reciprocated on her end.

>>14559868

Also, it's kind of telling that Oshii's best work tends to present him at his most restrained.

Talking Head notwithstanding because that movie is love.

>>14559744

Blackhat's a weird beast of a movie. It's directed like a 60 fps 10 out of 10 blowjob, but the script is like fucking a gym sock dry.

>>14559734

He's sorta hit and miss for me. I'd get high with him, though.

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>>14559744
I mean in film theory. I wrote an essay on him in uni 4-5 years back and iirc there were only 2 or 3 articles on JSTOR discussing his work.

>>14559868
Who were his influences exactly?

I can see why Cronenberg is similar to Oshii with the media theory in his films but what similarity does Mann have? What I'd consider Mann's recurring themes are postmodern/industrial urban alienation, masculinity tied to work and obscured legality (ie Heat's parallel of the cops & robbers, and the corporate guy toeing the line between both)

>>14559734
Fuck off

>>14559891
You too

>>14553749
japs are naturally born hacks

>>14553749
I'm the hack.

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>>14559510
>Digibro and Kotaku shills on /m/

As if the shitposters weren't bad enough.

>>14559510
No, he doesn't. Half of the stuff in those videos is hearsay or plain false.

>>14559881
> Oshii's best work tends to present him at his most restrained.

Which is? I don't think I follow.

>>14560037

GitS1, Patlabor 2, Sky Crawlers, Angel's Egg.

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>>14559510
>listening to a literal neckbeard faggot who thinks the Monogatari series is a legitimately DEEP show

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UbXcnA82B7U

>>14560030
Examples?

>>14560051
I don't care for Monogatari but it obviously is a deep series. You can't pretend there's nothing to analyze there.

>>14560069
Fuck off already Digibro.

>>14560069
>Anno was allowed to do whatever he wanted with Eva
>Shows like Utena, Lain, and Bebop wouldn't have existed without Eva

Not even the same guy, but anyone who considers Eva to be the catalyst for those shows is beyond delusional.

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>>14560074
>it obviously is a deep series

Spamming filters, still images, and monotone dialogue does not make a series "deep" you massive retard, especially when half of it is mindless smut.

>>14560069
End of Evangelion was NOT the original ending planned for Eva for starters, the TV show ended exactly how Anno wanted it to until fans started bitching.

>>14560069
Fuck off

>>14560047
It's good to know which one of his works you deem highest, but I still don't understand what you mean by them being made with him "at his most restrained". Those are very distinctively Oshii films.

See, I'm thinking about another pair of films that paint a pretty different picture: the first two Urusei Yatsura films. He had a lot more creative freedom for the second film, and it's probably the best part in the franchise. As a film, it's fantastic. Some say it is actually his best work, and there are a few qualities in tat film that would distinguish it as such in my eyes, although I personally enjoyed GITS, Patlabor 2 and Sky Crawlers more.

>>14560078
Anno obviously had a lot of creative freedom with Eva. And he didn't say that those shows wouldn't exist without Eva, he said that it's likely that Eva's success allowed other directors to get away with a lot more than they normally would be able to.

>>14560081
How is the smut in Monogatari mindless? There's clearly more thought put into it than other fanservice shows. The toothbrush scene you posted is probably one of the most interesting fanservice scenes ever.

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>>14560102
>How is the smut in Monogatari mindless?

Serious question, are you retarded?

>>14560102
Give it a rest pall. We won't hold it against you if you enjoy tits and ass in anime. You only need to maintain that pretentious facade on facebook. And you should probably go back and post about anime on facebook or leddit where you belong.

>>14560105
>>14560110
Why are feminists allowed on /m/?

>>14559873
>Even in that one New Files episode, I never got the sense that it was reciprocated on her end.

Yeah, which is why it's so great. The awkwardness was palpable in a very amusing way.

>>14560115
>calling out Monogatari for being a silly smutty romp means your an SJW

Kill yourself Trump

>>14560115
How in the name of fuck did you get the idea that I am a feminist for the simple fact that I point out that there is nothing wrong with enjoying fanservice, that what is actually wrong is needing to pretend that there is more to that fanservice due to peer pressure?

Or, in short, how's your reading comprehension? Not that good apparently.

>>14560102
Porn is porn dumbass, unless you want to argue that there is any artistic value to it.

>>14560127
>>14560133
Can you point out a fanservice scene in any other anime that is similar to the toothbrush scene in Monogatari?

Are Matsumoto threads ruined like getter threads now?

>>14560115

You don't need to adhere to an ideology to call Porn what it is when you see it.

Monogotari is well made, well produced, and is far more watchable than other harem soft-core porn anime...but be real it's still soft core porn.

>>14560140
Similar in what way? Also, why the fuck are we discussing ~monogatari on /m/?

>>14560140
Go on pornhub faggot, this isn't a rec thread.

>>14560151
>Monogotari is well made, well produced, and is far more watchable than other harem soft-core porn anime
That's pretty much my point. You can't just pretend all fanservice is equal, it clearly isn't, Monogatari does things differently, that's what makes it popular, that's what makes it deep and worthy of analysis.

>>14560098
>Eva's success allowed other directors to get away with a lot more than they normally would be able to.

Is that why Bebop was cut halfway through its airing and wouldn't finish itself until a full year later?

Digibeard is full of shit but faggots like you slurp it up.

>>14560152
I'm not sure. I don't even care about Monogatari, and I have no interest in that video that someone posted, but these nu-male feminists are forcing me to defend the fanservice anyway.

>>14560162
>Monogatari does things differently, that's what makes it popular

Monogatari's portrayal of fanservice is better than many other anime that's why it sells. Because it's sex. And sex sells. But to claim sex is worth a critical literary analysis?

Fuck off.

>>14560133
Lost Girls?

>>14560102
>There's clearly more thought put into it than other fanservice shows.

such thought
such deep
such complex

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KOdKiXH8cdY

>>14560172

I think you're projecting things on people that aren't there. I'm not of that ideology at all, but I'm still put off by the porniness of the Monogatari series. I can't say whether it's deep or not, because I haven't bothered to watch it, but the little I have watch is pretty high grade as far as the usual notPorn goes.

My reasons are more personal and moral, rather than having anything to do with identity politics. There ARE still people around who don't think indulging in every lust you can think of is a good thing.

>>14560193
Not him, and while that video is funny, Goat Jesus is full Evageeks-level reading too much into Eva.

>>14560176
Everything is worthy of critical literary analysis. To say otherwise is just elitist liberal ivory tower bullshit

>>14560200

Also a literal faggot, but it's not like he acts like it.

>>14560200
But Eva has actual thematic depth unlike Monogatari.

>>14560204
>To say otherwise is just elitist liberal ivory tower bullshit

Kill yourself /pol/tard.

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>>14560208
>But Eva has actual thematic depth

Yes but Evageeks takes it too far. They read into every line like it's some labyrinthian puzzle. They act like pic related.

>>14560213
Better to over analyze something with some actual substance behind it than a show that exists only to be a pretentious version of To Love-Ru.

>>14560221

Did it ever occur to you that Monogatari actually isn't pretentious, but that its fans project it as such because they themselves are? The show doesn't do anything SZS didn't aside from having fanservice.

>>14560229
So you agree that there's literally zero depth to Monogatari?

>>14560235

I'm saying the show is what it is and there's not much evidence that it lies about that fact. At least Katanagatari actively tries to be a bit pretentious.

People just call SHAFT shows deep because they're wierd and the director for a lot of them is quirky in his visual choices. No point in getting pissed off at a show because of its fans.

>>14560248
>No point in getting pissed off at a show because of its fans.

No one's getting pissed at the show, but anyone who considers it being "deep and worthy of analysis" >>14560162 really ought to kill themselves.

>>14560258

If it genuinely bothers you that some people take the english major approach to everything, then really you need to get off the internet once in a while because quite frankly you're just going to give yourself an aneurysm.

>>14560235
Monogatari probably has a good level of depth, like SZS. Literally zero depth is like Asterisk War or something

>>14560266
Retards are fine until they open their mouths, like you.

>>14560267
>Monogatari probably has a good level of depth, like SZS.

SZS has the same directing style, but is a totally different show than Monogatari. Mongatari is the same as To Love-Ru with more pretentious cinematic techniques used to make it more visually interesting. Like putting candles next to a McDonalds burger.

>>14560221
>>14560295

I find your consistent shitting on TLR offensive. TLR is a masterpiece at what it sets out to do.

Is Oshii the Digibro of anime directors?

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>>14560303
>TLR is a masterpiece at what it sets out to do.

Yes, it's great softcore porn and knows how to arouse you, and I say this unironically. That's not a bad thing at all, but it doesn't make it anything of artistic value. But at least it's honest about it from the get-go.

>>14560314
>using the anime as the example

THe manga is hotter than the doujins made of it.

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>>14560105
>>14560110
>>14560121
>>14560127
>>14560133
>>14560151
>>14560158
>>14560198
>>14560258
>current year
>thinking fan service devalues a show
Seriously Hope You Guys Fuck Off Back To Redd/t. How new can you be?

>>14560229
>SZS didn't have fanservice
Have you even watched the show? Fanservice is present throughout and key to the narrative itself, it'd be absurd for it not to be when the entire show and all its characters are built as a self conscious breakdown of the harem structure. Read the ending in the manga.

>>14561093
>I have abysmal reading comprehension.

Some of the posts you quote say the exact opposite of what you're making them out to.

>>14560305
Who?

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>>14553749

so he's calling out other creators for copying but obviously influenced by Blade Runner

Easy, Fukuda. The guy CAN make entertaining shows, but it appears to me more in spite of him than because of him. Like, he's the director who will take whatever the producers want and make a show out of it. Give him the proper input while keeping control, the man's not bad. But if you don't and let him take the wheel, that's when things start falling apart. It's obvious that the man doesn't really think about what his shows are saying to people and storytelling is not his biggest concern. The man wants to make schlock but he cannot pull it off.

>>14561234
Wrong, try again.