I'm 11 episodes in to Macross Delta, and how is this even

We finally got there somewhat at ep 16.

Its almost entirely shiptease on Mirage's side so far.

Kawamori is fucking around with the shippers

>>14521761
They'd better commit suicide rather than ruin every macross thread.

>>14521692
She doesn't have a chance anyway. The person in the loce triangle to be chosen is ALWAYS the one with a lower life expectancy. Misa was older, Isamu wasn't a near immortal Zentrad, the guys in 7 were about the same age so no winners there, Sheryl won because she had space AIDS, and now Freyja is going to get the Immelmann turn in her 15 year old wind hole because she's a Windermerean.

>>14525009
Will Hayate be expected to keep fucking her when she literally looks like a granny in her 30s?

>>14525184
Using her rune like crazy

Will she even make it to 20?

>>14525009
Agree with you.
Except I think Izamu won because he is not a rapist

>>14525542
Oh yeah, forgot about that. Plus was good.

>>14525009

I'd suggest that it would be nice for Macross to concoct a scenario where the winner is actually a close call, but then I remember that subtlety is a lost art and that it'll probably be another half a decade before Macross gets another show.

>>14525764
Delta has the closest love triangle since technically 7 (which had an irrelevant love triangle), but assuming it's not irrelevant here, it's the closest since SDF, despite what a lot of Freyjafags keep harping on about.

Either way, I don't think either of them will "win" here. This will be like 7 again where we get no conclusion, I guarantee it.

It's not, Episode 13 is the fucking best so far.

>>14521692
>I don't think there's been a single scene so far that implied Mirage feels any attraction whatsoever for Hayate.

PERHAPS

THAT WILL HAPPEN

AT SOME POINT

IN THE REMAINING

15 FUCKING EPISODES LEFT

YOU IMPATIENT FUCKING KEK

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Believe in Mirage

I get the feeling Mirage will still win it.

Poor Freyja though...already midlife.

>Freyja has to choose between living with man she loves and saving her homeworld through music
>Chooses the latter
>A broken Hayate and Mirage find comfort together
>They name their first daughter after Freyja

t. delusional shippers

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>>14525907

>>14525907
I'm utterly confident that her biggest arch will be resolved. That being that she will find a reason to like flying, and untrap herself from the expectations placed on her for being the grandchild of Max and Milia. I believe this will result in her to 'git gud'. She won't neccessarily become a second Messer, but she'll get over that last mental hurdle she has causes her to fly like a 'textbook' just because you 'should'

>>14525009
>She doesn't have a chance anyway. The person in the loce triangle to be chosen is ALWAYS the one with a lower life expectancy.
Can't fault this logic, to be honest.

But in all honesty, I can't see Mirage winning. Hayate and Freya's relationship dynamic is far better and more akin to a couple or friends that will couple up than anything Mirage has.

They'll resolve her Jenius expectation issues and she'll get gud, but I don't think they can really make her relationship wiith Hayate reach the same levels as Freyja in the remaining episodes. At least, without an asspull and in a believeable manner.

I'm on suicide watch.

>>14526123

I don't know or care who'll win but I'm kind of getting tired of Freyja as a character and how everything seems to be about her and going her wa. She joined Walkure with no real bumps and has immediately become their big new star, with her rune making her more important than them all and everyone in the cast, enemies and allies alike commenting when she starts singing using it. Everyone likes her, she has effortless fold connection with Hayate and no-one seems to remember or care that she has no real control of her rune, which is about her only fault or issue.

I was fine with her having no problems joining Walkure, singing strongly etc. initially, since I hoped/assumed the show would do more with her and that she'd have an arc of some kind and character growth. I even defended it with the one or two people who were complaining about those t things as part of a concentrated Delta is shit/unworthy shitposting thing that was there in the first few episodes because the idols were on the battlefield or whatever.

I'm not a huge fan of Mirage either just to be clear, since while I prefer her archetype, she hasn't actually done anything to make her a good take on that archetype. Freyja hasn't anything interesting about her though, since just makes faces and is kind of perfect in a boring way. I like the show's conflict, setting and so on, but the characters are pretty dull and even the conflict will almost certainly become less interesting by shifting all the blame on to Epsilon while Windermere become allies or not real villains of some kind, bucking the interesting part of the whole thing.

>>14526150
Let's review this, shall we?

Freyja: an orphan who lost everything in a war, who raised herself and committed to sing to make her fellows feel better. She escaped her isolated planet against the law, with help of her childhood friend/ex-fiancee and joined Walkure abandoning her beloved planet, you retard. She did it after a hard as fuck test, and because of her fold waves emission. After that she was torn down by Mikumo until she finally got good but got threatened to be kicked out, plus got called out as traitor by her own people. Regardless of this, she realized what she sang for and took measures to be better at what she did to accomplish her goal of peace.

Mirage: coddled and spoiled granddaughter of Milia and Max, born in a prestigious family and getting all her jobs because of her connection and not because of any merit of her own (she became squad leader despite having zero leadership charisma as proved by the stripped naked episode). She doesn't follow her true path, only the path she's supposed to follow and is unable to mature beyond that. Cries because some boy she barely knows likes another girl. She is also subscribed into girls' magazines.

The one who gets shit effortlessly without even trying is Mirage. But as easy goes, she sucks at it.

>>14526381

> an orphan who lost everything in a war, who raised herself and committed to sing to make her fellows feel better. She escaped her isolated planet against the law, with help of her childhood friend/ex-fiancee and joined Walkure abandoning her beloved planet, you retard.

All of of which is backstory and not stuff happening in the show you retard.

> hard as fuck test

It wasn't difficult, it just required courage. Which I'm not denying she did or faulting her for, only pointing out that there were no actual blocks to her dream in the show. She shows up, does the test and joins. Which would be fine if she had some character growth or an arc or something afterwards. She hasn't had any though, at least so far. Her only real thrust since joining Walkure is her relationship with Hayate. Which is boring.

> she was torn down by Mikumo

No, she wasn't. Someone telling a new hire to do their job in a mean way isn't tearing you down.

> got called out as a traitor by her own people

Which has barely registered in the show. Bogue has been annoyed and that's about it. Even the people who thought she might be a spy were silenced within an episode. It was basically a single line by Mikumo on that front.

> took measures to be better at what she did

Not really. She still doesn't have any control of her rune and no-ones mentioned it in about 10 episodes, if not more. She has more stage confidence, but that's due to experience, not conscience effort.

>>14526477

> coddled and spoiled granddaughter of Max and Millia

If she was, it was in her backstory. And even then it's an assumption.

> getting all her jobs because of her connections

There is no indication she was hired by Arad for Delta Squadron because of those connections.

> as proved by the stripped naked episode

Her not being a good manager at engineering has nothing to do with her leading a squad of Valkyries, though she's displayed no real talent for that regardless. She's displayed effort, but not aptitude. There's still nothing to say Arad hired her simply because of family connections though and not because he seems talent in her, similar to how he hired Hayate primarily because of his possible talent and was pleasantly surprised by the family connection.

> She doesn't follow her true path

Because she has no idea what that is, same as Hayate.

> Cries because some boy she barely knows likes another girl

Freyja was freaking out over Hayate spending time with Mirage around about episode 09 and had to run away and scream about it in frustration because of jealous. So what?

> She is also subscribed into girls' magazines.

Again, so what?

> The one who gets shit effortlessly without even trying is Mirage

Except the entire point is that she tries despite, or even because of those family connections and is simply not great at her chosen field despite that effort: not that she isn't good and only coasting on family.

>>14526477
>All of of which is backstory and not stuff happening in the show you retard.
Reminds me of Sheryl. When we saw her flashbacks as a child on Galaxy. Sheryl probably had it rougher.

Maybe this character could be appreciated for her own merits rather than her chances of being dicked by the protagonist.

>>14526529
Freyja rides on moe appeal and singing voice. Her only actual character conflict was resolved before episode ten and since then, she's done absolutely nothing interesting. Even Ranka had more going on.

Mirage has the whole legacy thing that she's failing to live up to, and that hasn't been resolved yet. She's also starting to show changes from the more strict, by the book person she began as. It's not much, but it's more than most of the cast. Still, she's not very interesting or entertaining to watch.

At least Hayate is a really solid protagonist; it'd be tough to pull through this show without him.I wouldn't have said that a few episodes ago, but it looks like the show's about to give him an arc of his own. Either way, he's still fun to watch.

>>14526939
>he's also starting to show changes from the more strict, by the book person she began as.

It only took over half the fucking show for that to start happening.

>>14526985
Well again, this is the kind of show where developing characters is not the main focus. In fact, I can't really think of anyone else in the show that has a character arc at all other than Mirage.

>>14527026

Hayate became a less obnoxious and abrasive person due to the time spent training with Mirage I suppose, and he's probably going to have to fill Messer's shoes somewhat by becoming a better pilot. Him refusing to accept more pilots in Delta squad feels like a huge step backwards in that regard though, and I'm still disappointed neither Arad nor Mirage pointed out it was just his petty fear of letting someone take Messer's spot like doing so is replacing him as a person when he promised to fly Messer's share too.

>>14527075
>Him refusing to accept more pilots in Delta squad
Did they ever explain how does he even have a say in that?

>>14527088

Not really. It's presumably because Chaos is a civilian organisation, but it's still a stupid decision to let him have a say and far more stupid to let him have his way considering the stakes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hJepWBUqZk [Embed]

Is riding the wind any faster than this?

>>14527237

Depends on how you ride it. If you just jump in to the drafts with no plane like Hayate did in episode 02 I doubt it. If you have a VF-31 then yes. Probably as much as twice as fast for short bursts when the ICS is turned on to full.

>>14527237
the YF-21 didn't have no g-force canceller thingy

>>14525009
But the idol already won in Frontier, we never saw a female pilot winning.

>>14527352
both were idols in Frontier. Saying the idol won would be meaningless. And if you're gonna say that the other one was just the 'upcoming singer' instead, then that's true in this case too. The upcoming singer has in fact, never won

>>14527333

It doesn't, but the YF-19 and YF-21 were approaching the limit of air frame speed within atmosphere anyways, because going more than mach 5 or so exceeds the heat resistance of the air frame they use. Which continues to be a problem with further variable fighters, though some of them manage to increase that maximum cruising speed under normal circumstances by a small bit, like the VF-27.

I say normal circumstances, because the VF-27, the YF-29 and more than likely both the YF-30 and VF-31 along with the Siegfried variants can temporarily increase that max cruising speed by nearly double the amount by using both the pin point barrier (on the nose of the craft to diffuse air resistance) and ICS (on the frame, to diffuse g-force). They can only do so for a limited time though, maybe 2 minutes or something at most I'd imagine, though it could be 30 seconds or so instead. Still, for that brief duration, the VF-27 can hit mach 9 and the YF-29 can hit mach 10. The YF-30 is probably up around the mach 10 mark too if it can do it, though I'd imagine the VF-31 can probably only hit 9 or so since it's a cheaper craft with lower technological limits all round from what we can see.

>>14527367
So if guld and isamu were given a better plane like the siegfried VF-31? Do you think they can perform better than messer? Because i see Guld and Isamu to be extremely capable pilots, just like a one man army.

>>14527363
Arguably, Basara won in 7. Mylene liked him just as much as Gamlin without him putting in even a quarter of the effort that Gamlin put into it

>>14527352
Macross II is your answer

>>14527385

I don't think so. I don't hold them in nearly as high a regard as many though. They might match him, but I don't think they'd exceed him.

>>14527419
in my opinion, i don't see Alto as a great pilot, he is good only when he is supported by the song buff, just like Hayate. I would say by far the best pilots that existed in the Macross Universe (not included Delta) are indeed and Max, Milia and those from Macross 7.

>>14527432

You could argue that Basara was only good due to song buff too, with the difference being that he was under his own constant song buff since it was before song buffs were a known, observed phenomenon. I wouldn't disagree that Alto isn't on his, Max and Millia's level but I don't think he's solely dependent on song buffs either and would probably rank him with Isamu and Guld at the least.

>>14527439

I would agree even, jeez.

>>14527411
Don't really matter none considering the triangle was never resolved. So noone won it. Basara was completely uninterested. Arguably the new singer in it was Mylene instead too, with Basara being the more estblished veteran.

>>14527452

Wasn't Fire Bomber a relatively new band that were only drawing small crowds at the start of the show? I'm pretty sure Mylene was already part of the bad by episode one too, and responsible for several of their early gigs, even if she was the last member to join.

>>14527439
1) I thought Max admits that basara's piloting skills is better than him in the end? He is basically flying the valkyrie with a guitar control right?

2) So how would you rank the delta pilots along with the other Macross characters if they were in the picture?

>>14527462
Sure. But my point is, Mylene is the rookie, not Basara. By comparison. Freyja is the rookie in Delta, Ranka was the rookie in Frontier, and Minmei was a rookie in SDF.

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How will Windermere end up after this series?
People there are supportive of the war without any mind control after all.

Is that mercat turn performed by Hayate a pugachev's cobra when he is go against Mirage?

>>14527477
>Commoner population of medieval monarchy without mass media is support of their King.

Who would've thought. Also they didn't seem too thrilled at the idea more war, but they supported their monarch. What else would they do? Are you some kind of edgy faggot who think all the german people were burned alive on pyres after the Nazi's fell or something?

>>14527491
Not quite, but similiar? He also went into gerwalk to gain altitude, then he shoots Mirage from above in battroid mode.

We do have cases of the pugachev cobra being done in macross though.

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>>14527463
not him but Keith and MESSAH are at least Isamu/Guld-tier, and Hayate might get as gud later in the series.

>>14527469
That's fairly meaningless when Mylene isn't the one competing with anyone. Not that Basara was either, mind you, but Mylene's choices were him or a beta pilot picked out by her Mom. In this context, Basara is the equivalent of Minmay, Ranka, and even technically Freyja despite having far more in common with Mikumo.

>>14527509
It's difficult to rank the skills of people of different series because when we dont have any direct comparisons. Often older series character seem to have an innate advantage (bias?) that's hard to explain away. With Max and Milia, it's hard to argue why they wouldn't be the undisputed top. Then it gets fuzzy.

But Keith is just on a whole different level of difficult to rank. He's got superhuman senses and stuff. Ok. He shot his rival with a pinpoint shot single shot in a duel. That's inhuman. He then gets downed by a much lesser skilled pilot who was buffed by fold resonance. Like fuck.

>>14527494
What? No.

I'm talking about their future.
Whether they'll actually agree to join NUNS and such. The main intent of the old king was to keep independence (hence the original war) and control the cluster because of "muh clay", Belka style.
But even with the old man dead and the goal achieved, they haven't done nothing but keep expanding more and the current king seems content to press the advantage to its limits.

>>14527544
Honestly I can see Windermere remaining neutral outside of the NUNG even after peace is reached. We'll see. We still don't know what exactly went down in the past on how and why it was bad to warrant them wanting independence

>>14527463

Max says he might be as good as him one day but isn't at the moment only if I recall. Personally I think that's his ego talking and Basara is on his level as is, since he beat someone on Millia's level and flew not one, but two seperate VFs using an acoustic guitar while singing, including a civilian monkey model VF-1 (that could reach orbital velocity on it's own so wasn't completely stripped down from the original) and he did so on, as far as we know, his first time piloting it.

I don't think Max is being arrogant or anything, I think he's just misjudging his own skill and Basara's and thinks himself better because he wants to since he can't pilot VFs much anymore.

I'd say Max, Millia and Basara are in the lead as super pilots, Isamu, Guld, Alto and Messer next as aces, Hikaru, Gamlin, Arad and Hayate in the next position since they're good, but mostly unremarkable pilots and Kakizaki, Mirage and Chuck in last place as mains for the moment since they're competent but not great pilots. I don't know where I'd put Shin or the guy from II since I don't even remember them.

>>14527469

That's ruling on a technicality really, and it's more like Fire Bomber as a band are the rookie, not one individual within it.

>>14527477

I wouldn't exactly call them eager to support the war. They did because they had to, but every civilian there seemed puzzled and upset at the revelation there'd be more.

>>14527536

Generally I think older protagonist do have a nostalgia bet going for them, since they're the first and it's hard to beat that. I think Hikaru is exceptional in that regard since he was never meant to be the best though, and his focus was more on him maturing as a person and making a love choice. Max and Millia are so good it's hard to beat them though, because their entire schtick is being good and they have a fair bit to support the idea they are too. I think Basara managed to do the same, but no-one else has.

>>14527567
Max completed operation stargazer by himself.

>>14527579

I know, which is why I said he couldn't fly VFs much any more - not never at all. I don't think that makes him a better pilot than Basara though, since Basara had other objectives than Max for a start. Max just wanted to plant the bomb and go. Which he did. Basara mostly wanted to make the Protodeviln listen to his song, which he tried unsuccessfully to do. The bombing was secondary to that as far as he was concerned.

>>14527588
True thing. I believe age is also a problem just like Flit Asuno from Gundam age who is still piloting the Age-1 but rarely sorties unless situation calls for it

>>14526150
Yeah, I kinda agree with you there.

I'm enjoying the show, don't get me wrong, but Freyja like you said, is just a bit too perfect and the show basically revolves around her which is kind of boring. She's both relationship and plot central, which makes the show the Freyja show, with Hayate on the side and a few other extras.

I also prefer Mirage's character archetype and design, but she's literally done nothing throughout the series of any note other than scream Delta 5. In term of character development, the only thing she's done is maybe, just maybe, figure out that she's attracted to Hayate for no real reason other than him being the MC.

It just feels like the Freyja and Hayate show with a Jenius shoe-horned in for the sake of it.

>>14526150
>I don't know or care who'll win but I'm kind of getting tired of Freyja as a character and how everything seems to be about her and going her wa
Just like Frontier and Sheryl. Even when the show was focused on Ranka (for two episodes) Sheryl was always there even in the movies.

>>14527658

I don't think she's attracted to Hayate for no reason, since he's the kind of carefree and skilled person she wishes she could be, as well as someone who managed to set goals and exceed them in a path she's always struggled with. I think that makes total sense.

>>14527662

I actually prefer Frontier in terms of romance and characters, since while it was a major element of the show I like that Frontier had (a) an extroverted character in Sheryl who knew what she wanted and wasn't afraid to make it known or go out and get it, which neither Hayate, Freyja or Mirage really are and the show really needs and the show made it obvious early on that Alto returned Sheryl's feelings even if he wasn't best pleased about it. And started actually advancing that romance by the middle of the show, with them dating and living together before the end. We're more than half way through Delta and there's equal signs of Hayate liking both and no real movement of him toward either, since he's not really thinking about it, concerned about it or likely to act even if he were. Which is just kind of boring.

Additonally, while Ranka was always the secondary character to Sheryl, I think Frontier gave both of them some plot and development of their own to compensate, and Ranka was clearly the superior singer in universe - becoming the new galactic celebrity and having better Vajra/fold capability. Which balanced them out somewhat. Freyja is apparently just superior in every way and sings effortlessly as well as fold buffs effortlessly while Mirage struggles along and really does nothing, and it's just kind of tiring at this point.

>>14527662
I disagree with you there. The only thing Sheryl always had locked down was Alto. Her singing career kinda fell by the wayside for half the show while Ranka took center stage and she repeatedly got ill and screwed over by her manager.

Though I will say that even if you do think the show gives Sheryl undue focus; I think it had more of a reason to than Delta had for Freyja. Sheryl has a lot more charisma and personality than our current clumsy moe stereotype idol number 4012.

>>14527688
>Her singing career kinda fell by the wayside for half the show while Ranka took center stage and she repeatedly got ill and screwed over by her manager.
Yeah and the show still focused on her and she gained more sympathy as a result. Even when Ranka was at the top of her fame we were reminded that Sheryl had space aids and needed a comeback in omnparison to how Mirage has just be completely shafted to the point that nobody even knows she exists despite her linage.

>Though I will say that even if you do think the show gives Sheryl undue focus; I think it had more of a reason to than Delta had for Freyja.
No they're just both exceedingly popular you just like Sheryl more so her focus doesn't bother you as much as Freyja.

>>14527701

> needed a comeback

Not really. She wanted to regain her place originally and then she decides she just wants to sing even if she's not famous. She eventually gets so again, but it's not because she needs it.

> you just like Sheryl more so her focus doesn't bother you as much

Or it's as he said and he's not bothered as much since Sheryl had concrete conflicts, both physical and cultural to overcome as well as better balance with her rival, since her rival was more popular and a better singer in universrer, as well as more important to the Grace and the galaxy at large. There's a balance between both Sheryl and Ranka, but not really any between Mirage and Freyja, as well as the latter having no real character arcs or anything to help compensate.

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>>14527684
>I think Frontier gave both of them some plot and development of their own to compensate
Ranka literally gets the short end of the stick in the TV series and the movies omit her only crowning achievement over Sheryl in the finale among others.

>>14527715
>She wanted to regain her place originally
Yeah hence the comeback.
>concrete conflicts, both physical and cultural to overcome as well
Freyja had all this. The problem is that Delta has breakneck pacing while Frontier dragged heavily so it felt a lot more was done when they were really just stretching.
>better balance with her rival,
You keep believing that.

>>14527716

The only short end of the stick she gets is Alto not loving her. Both she and Sheryl have conflicts that challenge them, both come out of it eventually and while Sheryl has sympathy for space aids, Ranka has sympathy for being kidnapped and Alto not returning her love at the least. I don't recall the movies to comment on them, but saying the show was unbalanced and gave Ranka less focus, drama, conflict, sympathy or reward seems untrue to me.

>>14527715
>better balance
>Sheryl goes through an physical and emotional crisis that takes up the majority of the show
>Ranka becomes a plot device

Yeah...that's some balance alright.

>>14527722

> Freyja had all this

I don't agree. She joined Walkure by passing a test without having to overcome any major challenges and she's been accepted since with no conflict. Mikumo treating her mean once or twice or Bogue passing comment that she's a traitor isn't a conflict either, since the show gives them so little attention, Freyja doesn't do anything to overcome them and hasn't changed any as a result of those things happening.

It's not an issue of pacing, it's an issue of focus.

> You keep believing that

Okay. You keep believing she didn't in that case I guess.

>>14527725
>Ranka has sympathy for being kidnapped
People call her a dumbass. You never see anyone feeling bad that Ranka became a vessel that almost destroyed because she's a dumb teenage girl.

>>14527734

And people call Sheryl a diva, a has been and so on too. Alto is the only one that sympathizes with her. The audience is supposed to sympathize with both.

>>14527732
>Freyja doesn't do anything to overcome them
There's not much to actually do but keep singing. That was pretty much Sheryl's solution when all she kept doing was drowning herself in self-pity was to get up and sing again.

>It's not an issue of pacing, it's an issue of focus.
Criticizing Delta for having focus problems while praising the Sheryl show featuring Alto is the epitome of hypocrisy.

>>14527737
>Alto is the only one that sympathizes with her
There were lost of people who sympathized with her. The only people who care about Ranka are Ozma, Alto and Mao (who did omit entirely from the films so she's practically friendless now)

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>>14521692

>>14527741

> There's not much to do but keep singing

She could actually address her problems, or have some focus on the fact people think she's a traitor or spy - both of which are basically single statements with no focus of any kind and which she doesn't have to deal with at all. She could also address her single issue, lack of rune control, or have anyone else address it after episode 4 or so, since she's yet to do anything about it and no one even seems to care any more despite it being a big issue at the start.

> Sheryl show

If you say so. It seemed an ensemble of all 3 to me, while this seems to be the Freyja show featuring Hayate.

>>14527746

No, there wasn't. She got fans when she started singing again, but when she was initially down none of them cared. Which is why her singles were on discount and she had no concerts or representation.

> she's practically friendless now

Mao was her only friend from before the show started in the tv series, Alto in the movies. She's equal in that regard.

>>14527765
>She could actually address her problems, or have some focus on the fact people think she's a traitor or spy
But she did. You don't need half a series be devoted to whether she's a spy or not just as we didn't need half of Frontier dedicated to Sheryl having space aids and nothing coming from it other than the obvious. I'm not sure why the solution is to drag shit out.

>It seemed an ensemble of all 3 to me,
Well if you ignore that fact that Ranka isn't really relevant at all for most of the show's run and Alto isn't really much of a character at all sure.

>>14527765
>No, there wasn't
There was. There were lots of people who kept wondering when she would come back to the spotlight.

>She's equal in that regard.
Not really. That just shows that she had nobody but Alto in the movie series while she did have a friend in her own life in the TV version.

>>14527780

> You don't need half a series

You do however need more than a single line if you're to pass it as some kind of real conflict. She didn't even address it, she just ignored it and it stopped being a problem.

> if you ignore the fact that Ranka isn't really relevant at all for most of the show

So wait, is she a plot device or irrelevant? Not that I think she's either, but she can't be both. She was central to the villain's plot, had her own plot and conflict, and supporting characters mainly concerned with her. Alto had those things too.

>>14527784

> Lots of people who kept wondering when she would come back to the spotlight

I don't think so. She wasn't even gone that long in show, maybe two episodes or something, and when they showed civilian reactions it was that no-one cared, hence the discount prices and why she found it had to go to Ranka's old manager, who was a nobody, to get representation.

> she had nobody but Alto in the movies

Cause they're movies. And have a fraction of the screen time. She didn't have Alto as an old friend in the show, only Mao - she did in the movies. She still had one in each, and was friends with Luca and Sheryl and so on in the movies too. Just like the show, only after it's events started, not before.

>>14527786
>She didn't even address it
But she did. That was her conflict in episode 9 was that nobody believed her which Walkure brought up to her, she realized that it wasn't worth getting pent up about since she knew she wasn't. End of story. If this was Frontier we would have had episodes upon episodes of Frejya angsting over the issue until someone points out in the last episode that there's nothing to worry about since you aren't a spy.

>So wait, is she a plot device or irrelevant?
As a character she was irrelevant since Grace didn't give a shit about her as a person just her voice hence the plot device. She didn't get nearly as much development or focus as Sheryl and most of her success happened off screen. Alto wasn't important to the central plot either and his whole character involving him not wanting to be apart of the family business is a joke in itself.

>>14527799
>She wasn't even gone that long in show, maybe two episodes or something
Try Five. And no there were people concerned for her even if her fans had moved on to the latest fad, then she sings again for the crowd and people like her again.

>Cause they're movies
Then why not omit Luca, Klan Klang's squad team or virtually most of the cast that don't amount to anything?
>and was friends with Luca
They barely talked to one another

>>14527815

> That was her conflict in episode 9

Her conflict in episode 9 was thinking Hayate and Mirage were spending time together as more than friends and not realizing it was because they were talking about Messer. Are you thinking of another episode?

> Grace didn't give a shit about Ranka

She also didn't care about Sheryl. Alto did. Just like he cared about Ranka. As did Ozma. And Mao. And Luca.

> as a person just her voice hence the plot device

You might as well call Sheyl a plot device because most people only cared about her voice and only a small few like Alto cared about more. Grace didn't even care about Sheryl's voice, so she wasn't even a plot device to her. Alto cared about her though. He also cared about Ranka. As did Ozma, Brera, Mao and so on.

> She didn't get nearly as much development or focus as Sheryl

She did though. She got focus on the Vajra wanting her and kidnapping her, on her rising stardom and career, on rescuing her being a big part of the finale and so on. Oh wait, that doesn't count as focus since it's plot device stuff. Never mind.

> most of her success happened off screen

So did most of Sheryls.

> Alto wasn't important to the central plot either

Neither was Hikaru. Or Shin. Only Basara and Isamu were in their shows. A protagonist doesn't need to be central to the plot, only interact with it. Which Alto did.

> his whole character is a joke

If you say so.

>>14527830

> Try five

Try 3. She confronts Grace in episode 18 and Grace tells her she's worthless, causing her to have a crisis. She gets over it in 20, singing Diamond Crevasse to help people. I've no idea where you're getting 5 from.

> there were people concerned for her even then

Yea, her friends. The public didn't care till she sang again.

> why not Omit Luca, Klan's squad etc

Cause all of them bring more to the show than being Ranka's friend, which they can also fill in while doing the same things. Mao's only contributions were being Ranka's friend and Luca's love interest. Which is a droppable thing.

> They barely talk

She barely talked with Mao either, and talked more with Sheryl in show.

>>14527877
Ranka's friend was Nanase. Mao is Sheryl's grandmother.

Unrelated, but I just deleted Macross Frontier after 3 episodes.
Shit was like Disney, what the fuck anon. The whole 3 episodes were idiots singing over passable CG or just generic nonsense.

>>14526939
Remember that at some point Freyja will probably end up having to confront the wind singer and the other windermereans, which will be very late but pivotal character development. If the show skips it I'll spam every Macross thread I see with "you mean robotech, right?" for the next year.

>>14528237

What would she even develop from doing so? I don't think she'll develop in such a confrontation so much as the story would, since she might convince them that they're doing the wrong thing. I can't see her changing because of such a confrontation though.

>>14528245
I mean sheryl was confronted by galaxy people a lot for betraying them, right?

>>14527715
You're mistaking Freyja as Mirage's rival. That's just in love.

Hayate is Mirage's rival in a professional level. She sucks so much because she fails to measure up to our mcs.

Just finished the Macross Plus movie.

Better than the original imo and also a bit eerier.
RIP Guld

inb4 I missed the dedicated Macross discussion thread.