What's so bad about Tomino's writing? Is "Tomino

It's a meme started by people who either don't pay attention or are't smart enough to understand it.

>>14509567
Disclaimer, I don't speak Japanese so everything I watch is subbed. I also don't think Tomino's writing is as bad as people make it out to be.

That said, I don't like the use of flowery sentence structure and grammar. He could choose to write something a very simple way, but chooses a weird roundabout way to express the same idea without adding much.

Also, I'm pretty sure it's bait, but gundam.png is actually Macross.

The only Tomino show I've watched that didn't consistently manage to bore me is Zambot 3.

>>14509567
I don't think he's bad, but sometimes the characters don't speak like human beings, like what >>14509600 wrote.

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>>14509636
What did he mean by this?

Tomino didn't write a lot of episodes himself, but the dialogue tends to be weird and stilted in Tomino gundams, no doubt the translation from moonrunes to human doesn't help. He obviously did a good job with the world building, which is why UC gundam has persisted for almost 40 years.

Although really the only gundam where people talk like humans and not weird anime aliens is 0080.

>>14509567
M E M E
E
M
E

>>14509688
>Although really the only gundam where people talk like humans and not weird anime aliens is 0080.

While 0080 is pretty good, I thought the dialogue was just typical animu melodrama type stuff while Tomino's has that sort of weird, but also strangely naturalistic flavor to it. Just my opinion though.

>>14509654
Aspergers

>>14509567
His dialogue is really wonky. There are a lot of times where characters will exposit half-assed philosophy (as anime characters do), but it's always about motherhood or how much Tomino wants to fuck his mother.

>>14509654
He's reminding himself what he's protecting. He can't just protect the moon, he can't just protect the earth, his actions have to be about the universe.

>>14510007
Yeah Zeta was good except when the female characters started talking about being female
it was so out of place, unnecessary, cringeworthy, & weird. If I was making a dub I would just make up dialogue to hide that embarrasing shit

>>14509600
>without adding much
I disagree.
>>14509636
> the characters don't speak like human beings
Of course not. It's fiction. It would be impractical to make character speak as a real person but it should reflect at least a part of reality.
Different authors focus on different things. Most emphasize flow and comprehension - the purpose of communication is to transmit an idea after all so they just cut to the chase.
Lots of writers give their characters various accents, dialects or vocal ticks to further differentiate the characters and by thus expressing their personality, background etc.
Rather than these Tomino prioritizes dynamics.
Not the character themselves, not what they mean to say, but how they react to the world around them. Tomino speak is often abrupt, vague, erratic. It sort of jumps around. Those leaps of logic give you the impression that the characters' thoughts are jumbled together or that they are not really listening to each other or they don't really understand what exactly is going on, that they are confused or angry, frustrated or scared or defensive or stubborn or passive aggressive or avoidant etc. etc. depending on the context.
So when you watch Tomino series it is very important to pay attention to the current situation - not so much "what did he mean by that?" as "why is he saying right this right now?". Though that last is true not only about the character's dialogue but also about their actions. The point is that there shouldn't necessarily be a strict logical transition from one scene to another or from one phrase to another.

>>14509688
>He obviously did a good job with the world building, which is why UC gundam has persisted for almost 40 years.
It's survived because of BAD world building, 40 years of fucking Zeon revivals

>>14509834
One big mark against 0080 in my eyes is how long it is. The plot was ready to wrap up in episode 3, but 4 and 5 are there and do nothing but hammer everything that's already stated into the ground. I might have actually found episode 6 moving if it hadn't of come after 4 and 5; by that point I was ready for the show to hurry up and end.

>>14509567

As others have mentioned, the anime he is involved with tends to have a distinctive and identifiable brand of 'what the shit?' dialog choices. Combine that also with a recurring habit of awful pacing, and frequent battle monologing about entry-level philosophy.

I once heard it claimed that Tomino's brand of weird writing was in line with old Japanese opera. He writes his shows like he is writing a stage play aimed at old Japanese people.

I'm not sure if that is true or not, lacking expertise on the subject, but it feels like it would explain a lot.

>>14511740
But Tomino only used Neo Zeon in two series (that took place back to back) and a movie. Everything else was other writers.

>>14511806
You know, I also recently hip upon the thought that his writing has a lot in common with drama. Drama is by necessity exaggerated and kind of stilted representation of reality because of it's limitations on the stage. Because it can't provide context and background the way a book or film can it focuses on the here and the now, on action, on performance, on immersing yourself in the emotions of the moment.
This kind of direction has its charms. I wish more people used it outside of theater.
Also I've noticed that Tomino often uses some pretty strange, rare and archaic sounding words in his writing. Now I can see where they could possibly come from. It's worth researching.

I once saw a japanese "how to write like Tomino" list (old pasta from a 2005 thread actually, but easy link).
http://garren.tumblr.com/post/50736042522/
1. Odd sentence endings
2. Roundabout wording
3. Sudden self-introctions
4. Men use feminine mannerisms
5. Unnatural occasions of using full names
6. Monologues with no logical connections
7. Others
>Conversations about men and women
>Logical leaps
>Ambiguous lines
>Unique expressions
Many of these are lost in translation so if nips recognize common stylistic choices of their writing tradition then still more stands out compared to us.

>>14511988

Yeah. Even the Japanese think that Tomino's style is really weird. Its not just a culture thing.

Keep in mind that a lot of tv writers, especially for anime, are not good writers. They're servicable writers, they're entertaining ones, but to say that what they're penning will be held up as some form of great literature is in fact kinda insulting to the greats. You have to remember that when you talk about calling them "bad writers".

Tommy Wiseau is a bad writer. Bad in the best way, yes, but bad nonetheless and shows you what someone who is truly awful at writing is like.

>>14511988
>Unnatural occasions of using full names
This always bothered me. Is Tomino the only one who does this?
I can more or less get the logic behind the other thing but this one always perplexes me.
Even though the characters might know each other well and are usually on first name basis?
Does it imply some sort of special situation? Some special sort of feeling?

>>14510360
Glad to know you aren't in charge...

>>14510360
What is unusual about it?

>>14512224
nah, other gundam shows have done it on occasion, like when christina died in 00

>>14509567
How come it's his writing that's always criticized, and not his directing? Isn't director his main role?

>>14509567

Tomino purposefully writes in a messy and sort of chaotic style, which can be jarring. I think the fact that people are constantly erratic and say weird shit, barely listening to each other half the time, all actually makes it more immersive and real. In normal dramas and anime dialogue and the sequence of events are more streamlined and deliberate, following a very simple and linear format meant to make a certain kind of dramatic impact. Tomino is the kind of guy who throws important information into the background and does things in a roundabout way, making characters blow their load too early, or say something really stupid in the heat of the moment. If you aren't paying attention it can get confusing, but to me it makes the shows more interesting, dynamic and organic feeling.

>>14514130

In terms of directing, I can't say I have ever been all that impressed with his fight choreography. For a series that is built on a foundation of giant robots, the robots themselves generally move like shit.

80% of mobile suit combat is mobilesuits standing in place firing their gun, or flying/running straight ahead against a static background. I realize much of that is technological limitations of the time, but there are plenty of shows that came out at the same time that have better fight choreography.

>>14514146
How do we know it's purposeful though? I mean, what would be the point, in his mind, of all the nonsensical, bizarre shit? Maybe he's just inept. I tried watching Reconguista in G recently; I think he's actually gotten worse and more incoherent as both a writer and director over time.

Tomino often comes up with interesting ideas but than things get downright perplexing in the execution. 'Baffling' seems to be the best single-word description of his work. To the point that things that are supposed to be serious and dramatic are often at best confusing as hell, or outright laughable.

You know how people can write essays about what /kino/ BvS is?
Tomino is more an idea presenter than a writer. He gives you an idea to think about and something to guide your thoughts, but you'd be better off using your own brain.

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>>14515871
>G-Reco
>incoherent

>>14515923

Your post...

>>14515948

...IS NOT SQUARE!

>>14509600
>but gundam.png is actually Macross.
That's not a Macross, though.

>>14515958

Its a VF-1 from Macross, instead of a literally anything from Gundam.

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Read the 0079 novels. His writing is really bad. You find things like "two characters talking, then cut to a flashback that's 6 pages long, then back to the original characters". You also find long-winded philosophical rants about the future of humankind.

To give credit to the old coot, he's a competent director and idea man. However, just like Gene Roddenberry and George Lucas, actual writing is not his strongest suit.

>>14515953
I spit my water out a bit.

>>14515986
But writing prose and writing scripts are two entirely different things. He is bad at structuring information but he still has his odd phrasing that makes for great memorable dialogue.

normal moonspeak is playing catch
tominospeak is playing dodgeball

>>14515986
>Even the novel cover has QUALITY

Jesus 0079 just breeds Quality in all forms doesn't it?

Can anyone actually explain to me how scripts for anime series are created? In many of Tomino's series he is actually credited as a script writer for very few of the episodes even though you can find at least some amount Tomino dialogue in almost every episode especially for stuff that actually matters.
So how does it work exactly? The one who is responsible for series composition writes everything important and plot relevant and the rest of the script writers just fill in the gaps?
Sounds like a fun job.

>>14509588
So everyone on /m/.

>>14515986
He is the anime version of Hideo Kojima when you think about it.

You can even draw some parallels between Turn A/G-Reco and MGS 2/V.

>>14509588
Or he's just a shitty story teller.

>>14515986
>You also find long-winded philosophical rants about the future of humankind.

Deikun's Newtype stuff has always been bizarre. Tomino introduces this fictional philosophy only to spend a lot of time demonstrating that it's full of shit. From a plot standpoint Newtypes are really just a vehicle for Toimino to wank about the human condition and human relationships. Only because, as far as I can tell, Tomino is either some kind of android or an alien disguised as a human, he has no understanding of how real people actually think. So the results are...insane. Sometimes entertaining, but not for the reasons he probably intended.

>he's a competent director

He's really not. The way his works are usually edited is especially disjointed.

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>>14509567
What is good writing?

>>14515871

In order to give it a distinct flow and feeling, and emphasize the themes of chaos and misunderstanding that permeates his work. Aesthetic and structural choices reflecting the thematic choices is how Tomino does his works, and most of them emphasize how things get out of hand due to needless misunderstandings and peoples weird eccentricities.

All of the his Mecha Anime has had these underlining themes and an emphasis on spontaneity and misunderstandings unfolding into tragedy. This is expressed even in the haphazard way that the MC always ends up just falling into the Gundam , its expressed in the anti-climatic deaths, and its expressed in the way that characters talk past one another and constantly misconstrue what the other person's position is.

I think G-Reco did a great job of this personally. It was all about chaos, confusion, different clashing ideals exasperating the conflict, etc slowly unraveling into a pointless conflict. People didn't understand that for allot of the show you are meant to be as confused as the characters are about what the hell certain factions think they are doing, why people are acting a certain way, etc. If one pays attention though most of it all comes together eventually.
It is chaotic, but not at all nonsensical if you pay attention and keep whats going on tracked before the eventual resolution. It is allot like those pictures that looks like static fuzz until you really pay attention, then the full picture becomes clear.

If it was actually bad then I could see it just being him being inept. But he is one of the few good writers and directors in Anime BECAUSE he breaks these arbitrary narrative conventions that drag works down into mediocrity.

>>14509567
>picture unrelated

>>14516297
You're giving him waaaaay too much credit. And he's unique, very much so. But that doesn't automatically equate to being good.

>he is one of the few good writers and directors in Anime

Ahahahaha...

>>14509567
For all his faults, Tomino is a memorable fucking writer. His weird dialogue sticks around in the mind, and that's honestly more than I can say about a lot of writers.

>>14516292
Not everything needs to be Conrad or Henry James, but I'd settle for coherent plotting and characters not doing extremely dumb shit every 15 minutes.

>>14516286
>From a plot standpoint Newtypes are really just a vehicle for Toimino to wank about the human condition and human relationships.
You don't say.

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>>14516335
>And he's unique, very much so. But that doesn't automatically equate to being good.
>reading comprehension: 0
Not him, but I've lost count of the amount of series with pointless idiot plots, infantile and forced themes, and rushed anticlimactic endings. Tomino at least generally avoids these pitfalls and manages to innovate a little bit at the same time.

>>14516400
>infantile and forced themes

What is Zeta?

>rushed anticlimactic endings

What is ZZ?
What is G-reco?

>>14516400
You really shouldn't be using a picture that concludes with CCA as part of a post defending good storytelling.

>>14516463
>examples of good storytelling are not good storytelling

>>14516556
CCA is a crappy film. It's not great in and of itself, and as the final chapter in a multi-series plotline it's abysmal.

>>14516570
I disagree on all points.

>>14516455
>what is generally

>>14516570
You must be one of those faggots who genuinely believes Char is a stoic badass.

>>14516670
No?

>>14516335

There is no point using "good" or "bad" as a descriptor. I've stated what it is about his work that I enjoy and how people don't get what is going on when they criticize his work. I don't thinking that "getting it" means that one will think that it is good. But when people say things like it is nonsensical I do feel obliged to show them how his works do "make sense" and what the purpose of his anti-conventions are.

I'm especially happy that Tomino is the contrarian he is, because that made the real robot boom of the 80s possible.

>>14517059
You seem to be mistaking the inconsistencies in his writing for intentional contrarianism, and apologizing for his shortcomings by citing his influence in the mecha genre. I'm not biased against Tomino, I enjoy his work and appreciate the impact he's had on popular culture. That said, it's important to recognize that he is capable of making mistakes, and is not the messiah incarnate of giant robots.
These threads always have two types of posters: the people that think he's a washed up hack, and the apologists that gargle his cock between posts.

>>14517266

>You seem to be mistaking the inconsistencies in his writing for intentional contrarianism, and apologizing for his shortcomings by citing his influence in the mecha genre.

I you have me pegged all wrong. I like what Tomino does in general, it does'nt stop L-Gaim or the first half of ZZ from being atrocious, but those weren't atrocious because of Tominoisms, they had their own issues. King Gainer and G-Reco both had failed endings that were too rushed due to lack of space. Tomino has made plenty of mistakes, I don't deny that.

I don't see how the things I listed are inconsistencies though, nor do I think that his influence on the genre apologizes for shortcomings that I don't believe are there in the first place.

What is actually wrong with my description of Tomino's style? Where are your grounds for calling those features "inconsistencies"?, where does the "badness" of them come from ?

>>14516400
>Maybe human sacrifices run in your family!
This joke caused CCA.

"That's ridiculous. Love is an illusion, a weakness of the glands! Like mother! It was love that caused her to leave us!!!"

>>14517387
I can't tell if this is a real Tominism or not.

>>14517387
Jonathan go away, you won't get any christmas presents.

>>14517454
>>14517444

It's from the English dub of 08th MS Team, spoken by Ginias.

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>>14516286
>From a plot standpoint Newtypes are really just a vehicle for Toimino to wank about the human condition and human relationships.
Wrong. From a plot standpoint, Newtype powers are there in order to make the protagonists more powerful than the rest of the characters in the easiest possible manner.

They're a shortcut with the story, common among science fiction and fantasy writers. Read this and you'll understand.

>>14517722
It was both. Amuro sensing where everyone was on the battlefield and getting impressive killstreaks was just a vehicle for Tomino to labor about THE LIGHT WITHIN THE HUMAN HEART and all that shit.

>>14512224
>This always bothered me. Is Tomino the only one who does this?
No fucking way

WATASE AOBA!

>>14511890
Have you ever seen a play? The dialogue isn't written like Tomino Gundam

>>14517722
>Plot is shit
You realize that's the basis of that guys argument right? Like no matter what happens in a story it's because of the author, which taking his example means it's arbitrary shit.

>>14511890
...so have you just never seen a good drama or what?

>>14518088
>>14520242
While I think Tomino is a good writer and this is also important for emotional impact, for the comparison itself I am not really talking about the dialogue as much as about the staging.
In a movie you can do a lot of things to emotionally manipulate the viewer that you cannot in drama, but Tomino avoids using those things. The focus is totally different.

>>14517722

The Well-Tempered Plot Device

That's a pretty funny title if you get where it's pulled from.

>>14516347

This is probably my biggest complaint about Tomino plots.

He relies on the absolute weakest crutches of bad writing as loadbearing pillars to prop up the plot. Tomino plots literally cannot function without handwaving away major character actions or motivations with "he is just crazy/autistic(sub: Newtype)/stupid". Just, you know, pick the one that applies to the specific character at the time.

The problem with these crutches is that they replace the need for coherent progression regarding that character. As long as you just say that the guy is crazy, you can have him do literally anything the plot requires with no setup or internal consistency, and call the lack of any logic to the situation a direct result of his generic store-brand insanity.

"Why would he do X if X just screws him over in an incredibly obvious way?"

"Because he is crazy! He doesn't need a reason! Also because it moves the plot forward."

Repeat for stupidity or (space) autism as needed. Newtypism in specific has evolved into an all-purpose plot bandaid that can be used to explain away nearly anything at this point. Need too character to instantly fall in love for drama? Newtype connection! Need two characters to have an irrational, plot driving hatred of each other? ALSO Newtype connection! The Protagonist needs to be a place or do a thing, should we come up with a sequence of events that actually gets that information to him in a sensible fashion? Why bother, when he can just have a Newtype Flash (tm) and KNOW what he has to do?

Just really weak writing practices all around.

>>14520667
>he is just crazy/autistic/stupid
Great. Your entire reasoning is based on memes.

>>14520667

>He thinks that newtype connections are romances

Opinion discarded. Tomino covered this shit with the Rosamia arc, newtype connections are not romances.

Also,
> Tomino plots literally cannot function without handwaving away major character actions or motivations with "he is just crazy/autistic(sub: Newtype)/stupid"

I've never seen this happen, there is always a reason, plot point, of character trait, that works into why the characters make the irrational decisions they do. Like with Reccoa, her sexual assault and experience in the war made her do irrational things like join up with Scirroco. Yes she was irrational, because it is well explained what is driving her rather than good reasoning.

I would love to see any solid example of what you are talking about here.

>Need two characters to have an irrational, plot driving hatred of each other? ALSO Newtype connection!

Who ?

> The Protagonist needs to be a place or do a thing, should we come up with a sequence of events that actually gets that information to him in a sensible fashion? Why bother, when he can just have a Newtype Flash (tm) and KNOW what he has to do?

Do you have an example of this ?

>>14515101
>For a series that is built on a foundation of giant robots, the robots themselves generally move like shit.

As they should. Call me crazy, but I do like the fight scenes in a lot of his series better than that of most other mech stuff. I feel as if they have this sort of subdued nature that helps drive the down to earth nature he attempts t\o present in his series in a way I think only guys like Takahashi manages to replicate. Of course, there are some exceptions here and there, but still.

>>14517387
So basically the character was saying Love is fake shit that is actually base instinct that make people do stupid things. and then uses an example of their mother abandoning them for some man she just met?

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>>14515101
Really? Personally I like Tominos fight choreography. Like in the fight between the gundam and Chars Gelgoog, and Amuro starts doing sick point blank dodges. Or the black tristars attack and Amuro using one as a foot stool. Or that time in Zeta where Amuro crashed a ship into another mobile suit. Or in Zeta obligatory re entry episode where Kamillie cuts through the guys balluste.

>>14515101
>80% of mobile suit combat is mobilesuits standing in place firing their gun, or flying/running straight ahead against a static background.

That's the case for most of the non Tomino Gundam stuff. Aside from Zeta and maybe G-Reco(haven't seen it yet) has the main cast constantly using the environment to their advantage frequently having to kill off characters in methods that aren't just standing in place trading gunshots. Hell 079 despite the wonky animation had amazing fight choreography.

>>14516670
No she probably just doesn't like a movie where the plot becomes a hectic mess because it tries to introduce a bunch of new characters while also trying to wrap up a saga that spanned three television shows.

>>14521151
Anyone that talks bad about his fight choreography is talking out their ass.

>>14521642
>she

>>14521642
CCA is a mess for a lot of reasons. New characters is only one of them. But it's a pretty big problem because it misses a chance to bring in characters from Zeta and ZZ to really make the movie the epic motion picture conclusion to a multi-series saga. I've seen several alternative fan created plotlines that are much more interesting than the movie we actually got.

>>14516670
Char was always a petty, selfish dipshit. That's one of the things I actually like about CCA, and the Amuro-Char relationship in general; Amuro has long since moved on, while Char is still butthurt over their rivalry and wants a rematch. Of course then the rematch is a completely one-sided steamrolling.

>>14522232

Amuro was still having dreams about Lalah in CCA. And Char and Amuro fight toe to toe for over 5 minutes before we get 30 seconds of one sided smack down, why do people always ignore the first 90% of the the CCA duel?, it is really weird. Char almost slices open the Nu's cockpit, it was'nt a one sided steam roll at all.

Who do you think should have came back. I mean, Kai could have come back to do some James Bond shit, and Saylah could have come back to try to plead with Char for a few minutes, neither are terribly interesting prospects imo. I can't think of anyone else who has a reason to come back. Kamille was'nt going to go out there after finally getting over being a potato, Jewdough left earth sphere, and just about everyone else of note was dead. Yazan could have come back as Amuro's wingman, but he would have either wasted to much time in the main plot or just be irrelevant anyways.

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>>14522262
>almost
Yeah, and most of MSG's monster of the week mobile armors "almost" didn't get fucking wrecked. "Almost" doesn't count for much against a top of the line prototype piloted by a badass. Bottom line, Char did superficial damage to Nu before trying (and failing hilariously) to win a fistfight with one arm.

>>14522302

> Unless you win the fight you've been completely steamrolled and it was a one sided fight.

Ok then.

>>14522232
Yeah. Amuro is such a great mature adult that neglects women and children, throws jealous tantrums at ghosts, jumps out of moving vehicles and acts like an autistic butthurt baby.
When I grow up I want to be just like him.

>>14522262

and Amuro nearly beats Sazabi with a ReGZ

>>14522411

That never happened. Unless you mean Amuro running and hiding and Char saving Gyunei instead of chasing him. Char only even engaed Amuro in order to chat with a bit and stop Gyunei from being taken out.

>>14522411
Why are power level fags so retarded?

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I'm 12 episodes into G-Reco, and the writing is garbage. Much of the dialogue and logical leaps within are incomprehensible.

I feel like there should have been some more exposition at the start of the show just to explain a lot of the shit that gets mentioned. It has become more fleshed out over time, as expected, but that doesn't help the earlier episodes retroactively.

I watched L-Gaim a few months ago - I can safely say that the characters in G-Reco, and the dialogue, are significantly inferior. And L-Gaim was a show that I thought had terrible scripts and mood-swining characters.

Scene direction is often confusing: Tomino's penchant for focussing on pointless stuff in the background in the middle of some dialogue has become more intense. Zooms are used very frequently, with strange timing. I just don't think they work well.

I'm actually enjoying the show, but it is mainly a result of the eye candy. Although on that subject, the fights are pretty hard to follow.

Does anyone else find that the Tomino shows people seem to find the most confusing generally seem to be to be the simplest?

Like Garzey's Wing is simple as shit yet people write long-winded rants about how it makes no sense.

Also, Tomino excels at making and setting up satisfying endings. Dunbine's ending is one of the most fantastic endings I've seen in anime.

>>14523575
Tomino's endings are just the toppest tier

Gundam, Zeta, Victory, CCA, Ideon, Dunbine. I don't think anyone's made so many endings of such high quality

>>14523512
Found the retard

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>>14523694
Who?

>>14523512

I don't know what to tell you other than get good at following whats going on on the screen, Tomino's works are more difficult to follow than most anime, but it is really satisfying once you are capable of it. If you can manage to keep all the different pieces of the puzzle together as it is given to you it won't be confusing. If it is then you may have to take a few minutes during the eye catch and at the end to process everything, ultimately it all makes sense and nothing is incoherent.

I find it odd that you find the fights hard to follow, they are a bit chaotic, but thats who skirmishes should be. I do recall one episode where a scene seemed to be legitimately missing from a battle though, I believe it was episode 6.

>>14523575
Brain Powerd comes to mind.

>>14523617
Turn A and Brain Powerd have amazing endings as well.

G-Reco is one of the few Tomino shows were he totally dropped the ball at the last episode.

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>>14523915
>G-Reco is one of the few Tomino shows were he totally dropped the ball at the last episode.

>>14523711
(YOU)

>>14523915
>G-Reco is one of the few Tomino shows were he totally dropped the ball at the last episode.
He should have killed them all

>>14510007
>how much Tomino wants to fuck his mother.
Way to project your own issues onto other people, motherfucker.

Tomino only wants to lick her vagina

Source: コンプティーク 2015年8月号 増刊 TYPE‐MOONエースVOL.10
Comptique (August 2015) zoukan, Type-Moon Ace Vol. 10
ASIN: B00YWYL8F6

Voice from Type Moon Relations / Urobuchi Gen no Yaritaizakari

(Interview with Urobuchi Gen)

http://imgur.com/pJUC4Dm

A story is a method with which one separates things into good and evil via their imagination. It is a system needed for people to keep themselves sane and deal with the unreasoning chaos of reality. Religion offers the story of salvation, for example. Likewise, morals and ethics could be defined as the most popular story of the people of the age. But while these stories are harmless as long as they're used to keep individuals calm, this changes when they're used as tools for a country or race. Stories like "jews are an inferior race that have to be purged" and "capitalists are devils and if you suicide bomb them you can go to heaven" brought about tragedies due to their popularity. For an example on a smaller scale, it's not uncommon that a story that one person regards as a "small love story" turns out to be to the world at large a kidnapping of a minor. At times, stories are a poison that can drive a person mad. This presents a dilemma to us creators: If there are infinite possibilities in writing, is it possible to write a story about the potential danger of stories? A story that renounces stories? Yes it is. Reconguista of G did it.

The villains of G-Reco are the people who take the simple event of "the Crescent Moon Ship is coming from Venus" and add their own interpretations to twist it into a story with which they can move the world. The exact same thing that dictators and cult leaders have done throughout history. Belri stops them by going along with the flow and doing his best to handle only what's in front of him.

>>14529457
That's why there's no intentional dramaturgy to be found in the story which is shown from his viewpoint, and instead it's like reading a replay of a tabletop RPG or watching a documentary on the Discovery Channel where you're left in a vagueness free of undulations with no clear rhythm. The easiest example of someone fooled by the danger of stories is Mask. As a passionate revolutionary who seeks to free the oppressed caste of the Kuntala, he at first seems to be more of a hero than Belri, who just wanders around with no clear goal. However, in the show itself, discrimination against the Kuntala is only mentioned, and not once seen. In other words, in the world of G-Reco, discrmination against the Kuntala exists only in Mask's imagination, and this is his "story". And in order to complete said story, he forces onto Belri the roleplaying of the villain. This is solely because Belri's lineage and surroundings contain elements that would make him a good villain for Mask. That Belri doesn't respond by arguing with his old friend dramatically is what makes G-Reco amazing. In the end, Belri doesn't commit himself to a greater good or fate or anything above his personal level, and at each point in time only does what he thinks he ought to do at the moment. No matter how much his ex-friend runs around going crazy, Aida's more important to him. And at the end of this one-sided game of tag completely out of place between a robot anime's protagonist and his rival, the final episode concludes with the unthinkable, in which he just abandons the fight and runs off in his core fighter. All that's left are people who are strong enough to live without the lies of stories. They are freed from the boring curses known as "catharsis" or "conclusions" and head towards the future. When I saw the end credits I was just moved, and exlaimed " they did it!". I had been worried about the limits of storytelling, and was just thankful for this slap from a veteran creator to me.

http://www.asahi.com/articles/DA3S11795546.html

Asahi Shinbun Digital, Subculture Commentary by Uno Tsunehiro
"It's made to be hard to understand." (6th June 2015)

Tomino Yoshiyuki's latest work, Gundam: The Reconguista of G, which ended in March, continues to draw controversy even months after its conclusion.

The far future of Mobile Suit Gundam's Universal Century. After numerous space wars, civilisation on Earth regressed, and only by using the technology of the Universal Century to a limited degree are people living on. The story follows a boy and girl on Earth as they're thrown into a war surrounding remnants of UC technology, but it's nearly impossible to understand the entire story at one glance.

Conversations between characters don't seem to fit together, and the most basic of explanations about the situation have to be deducted from the most nonchalant of lines. A massive amount of information that you can only begin to understand after rewatching recordings several times while taking notes, and a miniscule amount of explanation lead to many viewers saying that they don't understand it. It is in my opinion however that it's made to be hard to understand.

The real world we live in doesn't have a narrative with an all-seeing point of view to organise and record all events. Every single person has their own separate, detached experiences. Fictional worlds, however, are organised; Seen and put together through the eyes of their creator.

In other words, the 20th century was an age where we found out that while localised contexts have to be understood for three-dimensional real experiences to be shared, organised two-dimensional realities (images) could be shared widely through society easily without a need for this.

>>14529463
It is a result of this that the media expanded, and it became an age where massive societies of unprecedented scale could be managed. Animation is basically an organised, unified reality where nothing exists on the screen that the creator(s) didn't intend to put there. It is no coincidence that animation and SFX dominate Hollywood's charts. Animation is the ultimate form of two-dimensional expression, with the widest and furthest reach.
So why did Tomino Yoshiyuki chose to create, in such a medium, separate, detached spaces?

What we have here is a strong untimely message. In the present day, information and visuals flood the networks, and anything that you don't know can be searched for and understood instantly, and it is starting to be that the complicated detached realities mankind faced in the 20th century can only be found in media with high amounts of freedom to fabricate, such as anime. It may be that due to a dependence on information technology, humans are starting to let go of the intelligence used to connect, organise, and understand detached realities.

This theme, critical of civilisation, can be seen in many other works by Tomino, but in Reconguista of G this is found not just in the story but also in the execution. At the same time this is also an act that questions again the power of anime as a form of expression to provide criticism in this modern age. If you think of it this way, it's rash to simply treat Reconguista of G as a failure that didn't manage to explain it story.

In the end, the Newtypes Tomino once showed us may have been people with intellects able to understand detached realities without relying on networks.

Tomino: The anime industry is in a transitional phase, and though you can't tell from the outside, the industry is self-aware of this. Frozen became popular only because of the music. A lot of people in visuals think that you need to copy Frozen to be successful, but they're wrong. But the sponsors and such just don't get it. For example the visuals are mostly made with "motion picture" (Translator's note: I'm no expert but I think he means motion capture)- This isn't just in Frozen, Pacific Rim and so on do that too- And this can be said of all movies that use CG and 3D- They start to go in a direction where they start to think this is the only way they can make movies. In animation, using "motion picture" is a lot easier and faster than drawing stuff by hand, and when people realise that they start to head that way. But I have reason to believe this is wrong. Why does CG end up going in a realistic direction? Because the visuals are left to science and maths-type operators, and there are no artists art work. Everything is based on technical prowess. Among the bunka-kei there may be artists who are losing to this reality of of how there's no choice but to use CG technology, and they don't realise that they're losing and think they're just using using a convenient tool.

However, I can say for certain that 3D is not an absolute method of expression. One of the reasons is super realism which surfaced in New York in the 70's. It was popular, but lost steam really fast, and contemporary art after it was closer to hand-drawn anime characters than it. I thought about it and realised that that's because expressing something realistically is in fact not an act of expression.

>>14529468
Interviewer: Is it because the reader is free to interpret static images in their own minds?

Tomino: That's right. It's by getting used to that that expressions are more easily accepted. From what I've seen, because you have to draw the characters and backgrounds in anime, the expressions are all being forced into realism, and I can't say it's a good thing.

In the end, Frozen is not at all strong, and that's because like you said you need leeway for the receiver's interpretation for there to be diversity. There are many parts where the receiver adds on to or understands something differently inside their own head, and the current trend of all expression heading towards realism is wrong. Also, what I realised through working on hand-drawn anime is that anime is close to symbolism. When you use symbols to tell a story, whether you can convey the story's message depends on how good the anime's potential, and anime may have more potential than movies, and manga may have more potential than anime. I want to create a story that actively uses symbolism, and in my case, G-Reco, the message takes priority over the story, and I'm leaving many things I want the next generation of children to think about.

Tomino's writing is great. It's his directing that's the problem. Actually, I'm not sure. He seems to be the anime world's George Lucas: has amazing ideas, implements them with shoddy execution.

>>14510360
How about you go choke on a donkey's dick mate?

>>14511890
>>14511806
Tomino's dialogue writing is nothing like a theatre screenplay. Have you faggots actually watched a play? Like, ever?

>>14520484
Tomino's style is probably the least theatrical of any big name anime director. You need to find a different comparison to explain what it is you're trying to explain, because that makes no sense.

Dramatic writing is usually very regular (as in, orderly), because drama is extremely old and has amassed a lot of (useful) conventions over the time (it is also one of the reasons why plays comes across as stilted when they're done poorly). This is the very opposite of Tomino's approach to writing.

If you want some examples of theatre-style anime directing, try anime by Dezaki or Ikuhara.

>>14529538

Please tell me one single "amazing" idea George Lucas ever had. I can't think of any.

>>14529463
>A massive amount of information that you can only begin to understand after rewatching recordings several times while taking notes,

Is this guy literally mentally retarded or something? "Taking notes" is necessary to understand G-Reco? Really?

Noone watches Gundam for a plot or a story, we look at all the cool gundams, warring sides and just enjoy.

They figured this out a long time ago, so this thread is pretty lost in the past.

>>14529468
>>14529470
Wasn't this a copypasta that changed every instance of the actual thing Tomino was talking about to "Frozen"?

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>>14510360

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>>14510007

>>14517387
1. That wasn't written by tomino, he had nothing to do with 08th.
2. I think the line was fine given the context and character (though I'm similarily batshit so I'm biased).

I think Tomino's writing can be weird as fuck sometimes (oh God Victory), but he can put together a decent story. He's also pretty creative with ways to kill/torment characters, at least during the kill 'em all era.

>>14532825
>at least during the kill 'em all era.

Even after that. Turn A had some extremely brutal deaths like Will Game's hands being the only thing left sticking out of the Guncannon's cockpit after being blown up while trying to escape.

>>14509567
Meme

>>14510669
Christ. We get it! You went to college for an arts degree and you need an outlet.

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>>14509567
I mean, I pretty much understood Ideon's plot. It's basically "No one talks things out like adults: The Series".

>>14515982
it is bait, and you are now double confirmed autistic

>>14540790
>No one talks things out, like adults.
Here. I fixed it for you. Now it's Tomino.

>>14509567
Everyone is always talking to themselves.

>>14514115
Later Gundam shows are likely just imitating Tomino-isms

>>14512224
Pretty much a holdover from the "Yamato Damashii" days of Japan. Some sort of formal address, one would say.

>>14529556
Japanese theatre is different from western theatre, faggot, as if all of their artforms. Anime is strongly influneced by Kabuki and Tomino's writing reflects it as well as Kurosawa's.