People say that the Empire was a deep nuanced and morally grey

>>14503925

look Ep 7 just needed to have storm troopers and remnants of the empire because actually thinking up something clever and new is scary and hard.

>>14503925
A lot of backround info from reference books says the Resistance was funded out of pocket by Leia and her staff, the New Republic generally didn't fucking care about the first order until they blew up not!Coruscant and basically declared war. Of course this is never explained in the movie because that would be too easy.

>>14503952
>until they blew up not!Coruscant
That scene would have much more weight had they actually blown up Coruscant and not "Hosnian Prime".

From what I know, the New Order is just really mad at losing to the Rebels. The Empire was something the vast majority of Republic citizens approved of.

FO is essentially North Korea, if North Korea could successfully construct a WMD.

And also kept its citizens in line by enforcing a culture of absolute militarization rather than the anti-backwards mind-rotting bullshit that Juche operates on.

But still, a world where North Korea could wipe New York off the map is a North Korea that isn't taken seriously until it's too late.

It was weird how TFA went out of it's way to shove OT nostalgia down your throat while also shitting over the old characters and nullifying everything they worked for.

>>14503925
Sigh.

There is NOTHING we know about the Empire. Watch the movies again. The ideals and politics of the Emperor are not discussed.

The expanded universe was wiped away.

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>>14504164
>Sigh.

>>14504179
Yeah no. Been typing like that since 2001. Star Wars forums incidentally (I was young).

Don't care. Not gonna change to fit in.

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>>14503988
>The Empire was something the vast majority of Republic citizens approved of.

>>14504224
The core worlds did in the old EU because Sidious was brainwashing them with the force.

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>>14504231
>old EU

>>14504224
Remember Jar Jar's speech in RotS?

>>14504224
>I encounter civilians like you all the time. You believe the Empire is continually plotting to do harm. Let me tell you, your view of the Empire is far too dramatic. The Empire is a government. It keeps billions of beings fed and clothed. Day after day, year after year, on thousands of worlds, people live their lives under Imperial rule without seeing a stormtrooper or hearing a TIE fighter scream overhead.

>>14503938

Pretty much.

They needed a movie where stormtroopers get killed by Jedi. And Rogue One was later down the pipe.

Which is fine, just acknowledge it as it is.

>>14503952
>>14503957
I thought that was Coruscant, glad it wasn't

>>14504385
>glad it wasn't
That's what I thought at first, but it really hit me recently that making it some planet we don't know was a pussy move. We've never seen Hosnian Prime before so we have no basis for any kind of emotional reaction to its destruction. We aren't even told that it's the Republic's capital until mere moments before it's destroyed. Contrast this with Alderaan in ANH. Right from the start, it's established how important Alderaan is. It's esablished as Leia's homeworld and the story builds up to Luke and Obi-Wan traveling to Alderaan where Luke can learn to be a Jedi. Thus, the plot twist of Tarkin destroying Alderaan carries actual weight.

>>14504151

I think it was because they didn't actually know how to do "nostalgia". It was just a lot of obvious winking call-backs rather than anything nuanced.

>>14504326

You know as sad as it is to say, I think I have more respect for the PT. They at least TRIED to be different. They failed SPECTACULARLY but they where different. I could see what Lucas wanted. It just didn't work.

Ep 7 was just...too safe.

>>14504414
I do wonder if it was Coruscant in an early draft given that JJ casually obliterated Vulcan in Star Trek.

Made-up-planets Prime seems like a very last-minute, "shit no we need to keep recognizable stuff around for future installments."

>>14504437
Prequel trilogy was fine, there was a lot of bad acting and they didn't handle the dark side shift in episode 3 well.

>>14504414
>some planet
Not just some planet, FIVE some planets. That's, like, five times as bad as the Death Star!

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>>14503925

I thought the Empire as depicted in the movies was cartoonishly evil, too.

>Kills Owen and Beru
>Kills Jawas
>Blows up Alderaan
>Tries to blow up Yavin 4
>...until they stopped because of some terrible over-looked design flaw of their flagship
>Headed by a cackling old sorcerer
>...and his 7ft-tall cape-philandering cyborg
>...who executes his own high-ranking officers on a regular basis to prove a point
>...and wants to freeze his own son in carbonite for some reason by testing it out on somebody else

yeah, no. The Empire was just as dumb as the First Order -- probably even more so.

All I know is Leia, the Organas, and the rest of the shmucks from Alderaan (whats left anyway) and Coruscant have this hard on for *obi wan voice* DEMOCRACY

Even though the old Republic is full of coups, backstabbing, political assassinations, nepotism, and general anti-democratic things.

Not to say that sheev and his band of edgemasters were better, but one could argue that they weren't worse in the grand scheme of things

>>14505499
>Prequel trilogy was fine,

No it wasn't. Shut up. You're an idiot.

>>14505733

With any popular franchise you'll always get the fanboys of the evil group who have some obsessive need to prove that they aren't all that bad, and because they think that the media should warp itself to fit their worldview or it's bad.

Never mind that Star Wars exists in a universe where the basic good/bad morality is a fundamental spiritual law of the setting that had tangible effects, they just brush it off and say that KOTOR II is the best SW media anyway because pure grey, realistic morality needs to exist in all media.

Or maybe they just want to jerk off to the outfits.

>>14505733
>>14505787
SW is a lot more cartoonish than the EUfags want to admit, and I think that lends itself to a lot of the weird hateful holdouts whenever something new comes along

>>14505796

I mean I wrote >>14505787 and I'm an EUfag, I jsut accept the fact that SW is a pulp universe
with primary-colour heroes and villains, that's why I like it. I don't mind when the EU fleshes that stuff out, but it's not an obligation of the setting or the main movies. That's not the style of storytelling Lucas was interested in, you might as well complain that Flash Gordon doesn't give Ming The Merciless enough rich characterisation or emotional depth.

But I also loved TFA, so I'm sure that makes me some kind of traitor to the cause or some bullshit like that.

>>14505815
see, but that makes you a EUfag after my own heart, anon

Ain't nothing wrong with the EU although FUUckk The VonngGgg

>>14503925

Sheev was a fucking evil psychopath. Anything headed by him is evil by default.

And as far as the First Order, the fact that they're trying to hand onto the Empire in the first place kind of puts a damper on them being anything different, especially when it's headed by a guy who decided to tear a family apart by corrupting their child with lies (Kylo clearly doesn't know anything about the actual Darth Vader) and making him want to kill his family.

Politics aren't even important. The fact that they are headed by such evil dudes makes them bad by default.

>>14504231
>>14504236

Brainwashing or not Sidious sold them the idea of the Empire on a lie about the Jedi taking over and because of a war he personally orchestrated to remove his rivals and give him an excuse to take over.

And that is still canon.

>>14505927
>hand onto the Empire
am you of are to being of speak the english

>>14505932

Look I don't have time to spell check every post when I need to get my brilliant points in and posted before someone else does and steals the growth my e-penis would gain from it alright?

But it should have been Hang onto the Empire.

>>14505772
Do people forget the whole "The Empire was preparing for the Yuuzhan Vong" premise and that's why Sheev was doing it all along?
>inb4 no expanded universe

>>14505941
Oh fuck off.

>>14505951
I appreciate your constructive answer

>>14505958
I appreciate your fanfiction.

>>14505941

Yes, because that was fucking stupid even before the EU was wiped and at no point before that does Sheev imply he's doing for any other reason than he wasn't overlord of the galaxy and decided that was a problem he needed to rectify.

>>14505930
I'm not sure the current canon even really delves much into how the actual populace views the Empire, though there's a few books I haven't read.

What is often noted is the rampant corruption in the pre-Imperial Senate and how the few trying to address this often ended up sidelined and secretly attacked by Palpatine to continue the war efforts during the Clone Wars and keep the senate incapable of dealing with the Supreme Chancellor's growing power. I wouldn't take the Senate voting him in as any sort of sign about how good the Empire as a whole viewed him.

>>14506013
Probably widely disliked for no real reason or the empire being evil for the sake of being evil in their neighborhood.

>>14505941
Wait...the EU tried to make Palpatine into Bian Zoldark?

Fucking Hell, suddenly I'm glad I fell off around the Black Fleet Crisis.

>>14503925
Honestly i never been too much into star wars as other people did, but i did cringe with the First Order. Its basically lol nazis evil xdd

>>14503925
The movies are Rebel/Resistance propaganda
>the Emperor is a scheming asshole!
>Darth Vader? Annoying kid and edgy teenager
>the First Order? Literally ISIS

>>14505733

The First Order killed an entire village to secure some information they could have just taken with little to no death, brain wash their storm troopers and blew up some planets to make a pact. That's putting aside they're led by an evil wizard. They're basically the same as the Empire. By design.

>>14508028

> pact

Point even. No idea how autocorrect got that.

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The reason our Emperor was able to negotiate the dark waters that characterized the terminal years of the Republic and remain at the helm through a catastrophic war that spanned the galaxy is that he has never been interested in status or self-glorification. On the contrary, he has been tireless in his devotion to unify the galaxy and assure the well-being of its myriad populations. Now, with the institution of sector and oversector governance, we are in the unique position to repay our debt to the Emperor for his decades of selfless service, by lifting some of the burden of quotidian rulership from his shoulders. By partitioning the galaxy into regions, we actually achieve a unity previously absent; where once our loyalties and allegiances were divided, they now serve one being, with one goal: a cohesive galaxy in which everyone prospers.

It may appear to some that the enactment of universal laws and the widespread deployment of a heavily armed military are steps toward galactic domination, but these actions are taken merely to protect us from those who would invade, enslave, exploit, or foment political dissent, and to punish accordingly any who engage in such acts. Look on our new military not as trespassers or interlopers, but as gatekeepers, here to shore up the Emperor’s vision of a pacified and prosperous galaxy.

I'm a person and my name is Sheev.

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Eh, all I want out of Star Wars is bringing back TR-8R (FN-2199) as a cyborg precursor to the Dark Trooper Project.

Even if the Dark Troopers look like Halo Spartans crossed with the iPhone rather than cybernetic/robotic FutureNazis.

>>14505617
For all the energy it took to hallow out a planet and eat/contain a star. Why not just build five proper death stars?

>>14508028

The only thing that makes them less evil than the Empire is that they don't treat their troopers and pilots as completely expendable and encourage them to die en mass. Nor is Kylo allowed to just casually murder any officer than annoys him.

This is for practical reasons of them not having the numbers the empire did, but still it's something.

>>14511948

I think the fact they brainwash them if they show the slightest tendency towards disobedience kind of obscures that and makes it an even stevens to be honest.