Post yfw MSG The Origin episode 4 canonizes MS Igloo by feturing

>>14488817
The Origin is a separate canon than the original MSG so it doesn't really matter.

The whole point of The Origin is to try tidy up all the inconsistencies between the different series and side-stories, but that still makes it a re-telling of the original.

And there's no point trying to argue which is the "true canon".

>>14488998
so its basically the same as GoL??
an attempted clean up to all the side stories but ultimately still a retelling that doesn't supplant the material that came before it?

>>14490962
That's obvious.
Also Igloo is canon without needing to be referenced in other works.

>>14488817
celebrate by posting moar Monique

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>>14488817
>canonizes MS Igloo
It already is Sunrise produced it.

>>14490962
Yes. The same as the Origin, 0083 Rebellion, Zeta Define, Beltorchika's Children, Bande Desinee, Super Class!, SEED Re:, and etc. mangas. It's becoming fairly routine to put out a manga repackaging the story with new and/or updated suits thrown in.

>>14491182

What's Super Class!? Never heard of that one.

>>14491160

She looks so much better in 2D.

>>14491182
Especially if they have Blu-Rays coming out. They just ramp up the promotion machine in general, which sadly means inventing new 2-seconds-and-it's-gone suits to hawk P-Bandai's of rather than actually making kits of older designs.

>>14491182
you know

instead of rehashing old stories

maybe just maybe they could finish ongoing ones?

ecole du ciel conclusion never

>>14491222
because the stupid green eye shadow doesn't look as dumb in 2D

>>14491239
>thick and painted on in 2d
>tastefully applied in 3d

>IT LOOKS BETTER IN 2D THO!

Anon don't you dare start.
I don't even have my collection of Igloo faces anymore.

>>14491207
G gundam's manga

>>14491182
Being fair Beltochika's Children is an adaptation of a book from the 80's. Also Define is crap.

>>14488817
MS Igloo also got a refrence in that recent Cima picture drama.

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>>14491250
>>14491207
oh yeah I meant to post this Upgrades for the shuffle alliance & DG Cell versions of their main suits.

>>14488998
>The whole point of The Origin is to try tidy up all the inconsistencies between the different series and side-stories
But they'll keep making sidestories after Origin is over and hell, even while its on-going. It's futile to try and incorporate everything because more things will come along and feel left out.

>>14491230
>ecole du ciel
They'd need to tie up Mikimoto to a chair for that though.

>>14491248

Just find and post pics of the drunk Russian dude in the first episode. He made the best faces.

>>14491294
>clash

I love you Japan

I kinda just assumed IGLOO was always canon since it got animated.

>>14491491
>I always assumed ZZ was canon since it got animated
This is the idiot you sound like.

>>14491504
Forgot your trip there, Black Knight

>>14494419
No, just having a laff.
I noticed that you didn't bump this thread, but lemme fix that mistake ;^)

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>>14488998
>The Origin is a separate canon than the original MSG so it doesn't really matter.
It isn't, really. At best, you can say they endless waltzed a few of the designs, which isn't terribly uncommon for Gundam. It isn't a separate canon, just supplementary material that takes a few artistic liberties for the sake of selling Gunpla.

Everything about it matches up with the mainstream canon in just about every important fashion. Yes, even the crude early Guncannons in 0078 (the RX project did start at around the same time.)

This is kind of supported by the fact that MSD, Origin's tie-in Gunpla line, is not only reusing some designs from various other works, some even animated, but also newer variants that serve to give various mobile suits some extra backstory.

>>14494631
>Everything about it matches up with the mainstream canon in just about every important fashion. Yes, even the crude early Guncannons in 0078 (the RX project did start at around the same time.)
WEW

>>14491294
Only Versailles and Double Dragon look fine. The other two look even stupider than the blind assassin's anal bead Gundam.

And the Devil Army upgrades/clones look even better. Kind of like that "Great Wall" shoulder piece on Devil Dragon and the Zeon-hoses look on that Devil Bolt.

>>14494674
That is actually true, though; specifically in March of 0078. It's possible that the RX-75 and RX-77 started out as something else and were both later worked into the RX project when the Feds started getting antsy about Zeon MS development.

In fact, the only thing that Origin really changed is the date Professor Minovsky tried to defect to the Federation from 0072 to late 0078, which was only a footnote in the lore to begin with, so it's not exactly a huge retcon or anything.

>>14491160
What is this from?

>>14494734
>>14494631
Since you mentioned Endless Waltz, keep in mind this is the same franchise that, in the EW OVA/Movie, showed flashbacks of the Gundams before Operation Meteor, but used their EW versions of their mid-season upgrades in them.

Trying to make sense of visual inconsistencies between series is an exercise in futility, since Sunrise usually doesn't seem to make much of an effort themselves. It's just kind of how things work in Gundam. Trying to say Origin exists in a separate canon simply because it changes around a few things is just overcomplicating things when Sunrise is just going to consider the events of the Origin OVA what happened from now on for everything else, anyway.

>>14494734
>Guncannon used in 0065
>Amuro didn't invent Haro
>Char's entire backstory
Origin makes even less canonical sense than Unicorn

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>>14494784
OVA places these events in 0078, actually.

On that note, the manga places that event in 0078 as well, so I don't know what you're talking about.

>Amuro not inventing Haro.
Have they ever actually said in the anime that Haro is Amuro's invention specifically? All I remember is the fact that he's famous for owning one and that his was special, likely because of personal modifications.

Either way, Haro being a toy before 0079 kind of explains how Kamille found one in a wreckage from the OYW.

>Char's entire backstory
What exactly conflicts with the lore here, again? I can't think of anything. I guess there's Lalah's backstory, but I don't remember anything really solidifying that she was a child prostitute or whatever.

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>>14494784
>Guncannon used in 0065
I swear, I've seen this claim five or six times on this board. This isn't true at all, for EITHER the manga or the OVA. In the manga, the Guncannon battle happens in 0078 near granada, and the promo material for episode IV seems indicate the same thing, so the same is true for the Anime.

Stop pretending you retards know shit. I'm beginning to think not a single one of you read the manga to begin with.

The Federation having been building MS before the OYW is retarded, even if they weren't as good as the Zaku II it means they would still have the numbers, the production capabilities and a corps of pilots with MS piloting experience to overcome Zeon from the start.

>>14494967
It doesn't mean any of that. It means, solely, that they had a group of egg heads build a handful and do jack shit with them.

>>14494980
They already had test models and prototypes established, there was really no need to have shitty guncannons.

Why couldn't they have just used stuff like the Zanny?

>>14494967
They never had numbers because Gundams and Guncannon were never put into production. At best they had a few.. And enough spare experimental parts to build a few dozen units but they never actually built them (those parts were later diverted and used to construct the RX-79 Ground Gundams).

A weapons development lab is not the same thing as a production facility. Tinkering with parts to see what works isn't the same thing as an assembly line MS factory.

And no, having some test pilots doesn't mean they have a whole corps of trained, battle-ready, pilots. They don't even have a doctrine for MS combat besides "let's build a lot of GMs and then IF it's not good enough we'll figure out specialized models later".

>>14494991
You are talking about MSG, not Origin

>>14494967
I don't really see the problem. The early Guncannon can barely AMBAC. I mean, the guncannon literally FELL ON TOP of the very man that was trying to defect. If anything, the federation probably struck all record from existence, they were so embarraased.

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>>14494996
No, that goes for Origin, too.
>B-But muh lore inconsistancies!

I submit to you the entire premise of 08th MS Team

>>14494990
Zanny is one of those test models built solely to gain experience. It's made out of salvaged Zaku parts.

They can't exactly mass produce the Zanny unless they plan on capturing a ton of Zakus.

>>14495005
They managed to scavenge Zakus before they had MS themselves

>>14495005
Not to mention they weren't at war yet. The whole idea behind the RX-77-01 is the Federation going "see? We can do it, too! You guys aren't special!"

Why do Zeekfags love IGLOO so much, is it because of MUH 2FAST2ZAKU making GMs look even more like jobbers than usual in Zeekwank works?

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>>14495097
GM's whooped Zeek ass at A Baoa Qu in IgLoo. Only time they jobbed was when they went uo against a mobile armor.

In fact, they were more badass than typically depicted since the original MSG.

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>>14495004
08th MS team drove me up a wall with that "early type"/"pre-production" bullshit.

They practically retconned the GM Kai into the early days of the OYW for the sake of it when they already had regular RGM-79s on the field in limited amounts. Don't even get me started on "we built 20 ENTIRE GUNDAMS out of spare parts from the V Project and none of them look remotely similar to the Gundams that they were supposedly spare parts for."

>>14495236
>we built 20 ENTIRE GUNDAMS

Are you unironically retarded? They were preety much just GMs with a few Gundam parts

>>14495304
No, that's wrong, they were using Project V parts. Thr Ground GMs are the ones that are built on same/similar pattern but are using GM parts.

>>14495236
No, 08th MS Team started in October 0079. There were no regular RGM-79 units operating yet.

And just because they used parts from the Gundam, Guncannon, and Gundam doesn't mean their exterior armor will look the same.

>>14488817
>Origin
>ever acknowledging the OYW sidestories
I would far rather we got to see some other characters besides 0079s lineup awkwardly popping up all the time.

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>>14495304
Not him, but that fact-let was (very clumsily) clarified way later, in the 2000's. Back in the 90's the story behind the RX-79[G] was 20 Gundams, and about 42 GMs based the same frame.

Then, the Gundam Officials encyclopedia came out and said that are actually more twin brothers than one being based on the other, developed in tandem. It wasn't until the Master Grade of the RX-79[G] came out that it sort of implied that the RX-79[G] was actually based on the RGM-79[G], not the other way around, and that it was most the same suit, but with parts from the V Project thrown in.

>>14495404
There's a good chance it might happen. At a London event, one of the staff said that if all goes well, they might even get to remake the entirety of 0079. If that happens, you can be damn sure they are going to sneak in an occasional cameo, especially if it gives them an excuse to make an "Origin edition" or "Origin Ver." of various MS to push Gunpla sales.

>>14495404
You haven't heard of MSD yet? They're tying animated Origin into 08th MS Team and possibly beyond. They introduced the RX-78-01 Local type that serves as a bridge between the RX-78-01 and the RX-79. The development chart on the MSD website also mentions the Zaku with prototype Dom legs that Aina used in the show.

http://www.gundam-the-origin.net/msd

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>>14495451
>The development chart on the MSD website also mentions the Zaku with prototype Dom legs that Aina used in the show.
it got a gunpla too

>>14495469
What the fuck is wrong with the colors they don't match

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>>14495480
looks fine to me

>>14495480
test machine, parts were probably used from different sources and nobody bothered to paint them all the same colour because it's purpose was to run a half dozen times for data collection to be used for another project

MS IGLOO is already canon you dolt.


If anything we need more MS IGLOO, but dump any idea about it staring the Feddies since that was a disaster that killed it in the first place.

>>14495534
Gravity Front was the best one you shitlord.

>>14495564
Moby dick with tanks was the only good one.

>>14495649
>not loving butthurt guntank girl's butthurt adventures

>or Zaku vs pot-holes

>>14495649
>not liking Barberry going Saving Private Ryan at the end

>>14494784
You can always tell who hasnt read the manga

>>14494933
>Guncannon used in 0065
I think this is referring to the Guntank, but that's also a Mobile Suit when it was crucial that the first MSs were made by Zeon to facilitate the consequences of the One Week Battle.

>Haro being a toy before 0079 kind of explains how Kamille found one in a wreckage from the OYW.
>No, even the toy versions were programmed with the names Amuro and Bright in them...

>Char's entire backstory
It's not so much that this contradicts canon as it is pure stupidity.

Meanwhile the core fighter was removed from the Gundam, which despite not being that bad, makes the actual design of both the waist and White Base redundant and Sayla's participation in the Battle of A Bao A Qu defeated the point of her character in the first place, which was to be a foil to Char and his obsession with revenge.

>>14494933
>Either way, Haro being a toy before 0079 kind of explains how Kamille found one in a wreckage from the OYW.
That was the same one Amuro had.

>>14496075

Someone, pretty sure it was either Bright or Quattro, says it's a replica.

>>14494933
>All I remember is the fact that he's famous for owning one and that his was special, likely because of personal modifications.
Pretty sure he was rich in Zeta due to selling his haros. That was the reason he had the nice mansion to be house arrested in.

>>14496034
>Meanwhile the core fighter was removed from the Gundam

No it wasn't, read the manga. The core block system was an upgrade for the Gundam midway through the story that merely functions as an emergency escape system instead of the way it was in MSG. They even had Amuro go for training/simulations for how to use the thing before he piloted the Gundam afterward.

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>>14496126

>>14496182
Wong tells him it's a mass production toy.

>>14496214
Fuck off man.

>>14494631
>It isn't, really.
Except by all accounts it is. The 1979 TV series is one continuity, the novels are another, the trilogy movies are also another, and the Origin is another different one.

>This is kind of supported by the fact that MSD, Origin's tie-in Gunpla line, is not only reusing some designs from various other works but also newer variants that serve to give various mobile suits some extra backstory.
That doesn't prove your point at all.

>>14494966
I think he meant the Guntank, not Guncannon

>>14496214
Bright also said it was OYW memorabilia when he meets it on the Argama, as all toy versions were pre-programmed with Amuro and Bright's names.

>>14496268
I think the god damn point was that nobody fucking knows

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>>14496175
It wasn't just supposed to be an escape pod, though. It was designed specifically for the White Base so that if the ship was understaffed, a pilot could scout the surrounding area in a Core Fighter and be able to immediately transfer into the Guntank, Guncannon, or Gundam so that it would be easily defensible to compensate for it's large size as a carrier.

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>>14496034
>I think this is referring to the Guntank, but that's also a Mobile Suit when it was crucial that the first MSs were made by Zeon to facilitate the consequences of the One Week Battle.
To be fair, the Guntank used in the OVA is a different model completely separate from the RX project (RTX-65 as opposed to the Manga's RX-75,) and even though the boxart lists it as such, it's never actually referred to as a "mobile suit" in the anime, since the term hadn't been invented yet. In addition, Sunrise's name for the Guntank in question is "Early type" is never used in the anime, for obvious reasons, and seems like both the name "Early Type" and it's status as a "Mobile Suit" is a retroactive change in-universe. If they go on with the OVA and actually do remake the OYW, there's a good chance we'll see a few in action, so it's possible that by the time the OYW rolls around, the Federation Military simply simply rebranded the RTX-65 to an "early type mobile suit" to reflect it's combat role.

On the matter of the Haro is Zeta, it's specifically said that the colony wreckage is leftover from the OYW, so no matter what the case, it's either a staff oversight or Bright's wrong and Amuro's specific Haro somehow found it's way to the moon.

Either way, Amuro having a Haro toy at a young age is something that can be easily rectified with simple writing or a minor inoffensive retcon. Do they even specify that Amuro built it in the anime? I can't remember and I don't feel like checking.

It had it in the manga at some point, as I recall.

Besides, the MG RX-78-02 and the FIX Figuration version both have it.

>>14496034
>Sayla's participation in the Battle of A Bao A Qu defeated the point of her character in the first place, which was to be a foil to Char and his obsession with revenge.
Didn't she also participate in the TV and Movie versions though?

>>14496310
>the Federation Military simply simply rebranded the RTX-65 to an "early type mobile suit" to reflect it's combat role
That makes no sense. It's like saying the Wright Brothers didn't invent the first functional aircraft, but it was actually WWI fighter jets.

>it's either a staff oversight or Bright's wrong and Amuro's specific Haro somehow found it's way to the moon
The point was that the toys were made after the war, not before it. That also implies that Amuro personally built the original, because all logic of licensing laws require that it wouldn't somehow have one line in the early '70s and then get another one as a war toy ten years later like the Zeon and Federation badges that were getting sold at Colony 6.

>easily rectified with simple writing or a minor inoffensive retcon
It's a worthless change that requires any retcons. That's the point.

>It had it in the manga
Yes, but it was completely changed from a design perspective, being incorporated later instead of being a key part of the design.

>MG RX-78-02
I just built it a month ago. It was removed to improve poseability.

>>14496397
She got captured by Zeon in the Origin and interrogated, revealing that she was Artesia and rallied some of the remaining Zeon forces. By making her role of Artesia relevant to someone other than Char, it defeats the point of her consistently moving on from the past while Char hopelessly clung to and distorted it for his entire life.

>>14496407
>That makes no sense. It's like saying the Wright Brothers didn't invent the first functional aircraft, but it was actually WWI fighter jets.
That makes perfect sense. The Federation never even thought of mobile suits at the time, but when mobile suits entered the battlefield, they simply figured that since they had the RX-75 in development, based on the RTX-65, that the RTX-65 might as well be rebranded as an early version and called a mobile suit.

What doesn't make sense is actually calling the RTX-65 the Guntank "Early Type" in universe when there was nothing else developed or in development, much less calling it a mobile suit when in the very same anime that featured it, the term hadn't been invented yet, so the only way to rectify that internal inconsistency is to assume that the Early type moniker came after the RX-75 entered the field.

>The point was that the toys were made after the war, not before it.
Then how did one get on the moon in a colony wreckage FROM the war? It's either Amuro's original Haro or it's a staff oversight. You can't have your cake and eat it too.

>Yes, but it was completely changed from a design perspective, being incorporated later instead of being a key part of the design.
You're also assuming that the OVA is going to follow the manga to a tee, when in fact in the very first episode, it made a significant change to the Guntanks used in 0068 from the manga to maintain synergy with the mainstream continuity. If the Origin OVA was indeed intended to be a completely separate entity from mainstream UC, whose events are not applicable to the universe at large, there would have been no need to do this whatsoever.

>>14491504
Everything leads into Turn A, so everything animated is canon, even if that makes literally no sense.

>>14496497
>Everything
Not anymore, Turnfag.

Why do people care about canon so much? This isn't like the bible where deciding between what's canon and what's apocryphal literally causes wars.

It's just fucking entertainment. What, are you not allowed to enjoy KotoR anymore because the Star Wars EU has been relegated to Legacy status? What kind of stupid shit is that? If the stories told gave you such enjoyment, why should you care whether or not it fits into some grand scheme of things. It's fucking autism is what it is.

>>14496536
Blame ZZ fags for wanting their dumpster fire of a series to remain relevant even though it's worse than SEED Destiny.

>>14488817

looks better than berserk.

>>14496567
You forgot your trip, black knight.

>>14496471
>they simply figured that since they had the RX-75 in development, based on the RTX-65, that the RTX-65 might as well be rebranded as an early version and called a mobile suit
If it's rebranded as a mobile suit, the first 3 RX suits aren't the Federation's first mobile suits anymore. If they already had that sort of technology, it still defeats the point of what the One Week Battle facilitated.

>Then how did one get on the moon in a colony wreckage FROM the war?
I'm pretty sure that it was a junkyard anyways.

>If the Origin OVA was indeed intended to be a completely separate entity from mainstream UC, whose events are not applicable to the universe at large, there would have been no need to do this whatsoever.
That's true. It's unfortunate that there's already enough that it defeats the point anyways.

>>14496579

That isn't hard, IGLOO had a budget.

>>14496567
here's your you.

>>14496567
Personally I blame anyone who says "X is worse than SEED Destiny" because they probably haven't seen Destiny or they have the mind of a fourteen year old girl who self-inserts as Lacus.

>>14496588
ZZ is worst than SEED Destiny because it had a competent director who managed to completely fuck things up and managed to make the entire show meaningless. SEED Destiny had a little potential and turned into a train wreck that then into a radioactive meltdown because the train was carrying nuclear rods. But that was expected because of the director and his wife's track record. ZZ doesn't have that excuse, especially with parts like Moon Moon.

>>14496588
Have you not seen ZZ or do you self insert as Judau?

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>>14496407
>The point was that the toys were made after the war, not before it.
When Kamille looked at the Haro's internal parts, he mentions that the chip inside is ten years old, so it's probable that it is the same Haro Amuro had. That said, that would mean the chip was made sometime in 0077. In 0072, Haro doesn't refer to Amuro by his name yet, so it's clear that Amuro still had a hand in modifying it.

Either way, Banagher mentions that the Haro he has is a replica of one built by an ace pilot during the OYW, but it's never really outright stated that the Haro Amuro had was one of a kind, only that he tinkered with it extensively, so it's easily just as possible that the Haro's built after the war were replicas of Amuro's modifications.

>>14496536
Mostly it's because there's this weird trend of trying to segregate the events of Origin away from mainstream UC because of the manga and minor inconsistancies and minor differences in MS design, meaning that the past established by the OVA is not applicable to the UC we're all familiar with. It's an outright futile effort, considering Sunrise specifically marketed this as a prequel detailing Char's life and the events leading up the OYW and is likely going to consider it as such in all future timelines, so everybody might as well just come to terms with the fact that if the manga wasn't part of mainstream UC before, the events of the OVA are now, and nothing's going to change that, certainly not a upside down shield or a tweak to Haro's backstory.

Also unrelated, but KotoR's canon in Disney's EU now, IIRC.

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>>14496605
>>14496607
>destiny apologists

>>14496588
>haven't seen Destiny or they have the mind of a fourteen year old girl who self-inserts as Lacus.
And are you telling me fourteen year old boys wouldn't self-insert as Judau?

>Leader of a gang of kids
>Doesn't have to respect any adults or authority figures
>Gets away with punching out Wong and Bright
>Has super newtype powers that makes Haman pee her dress
>Super bewtype powers also let him do impossible feats on his own
>Gets own super awesome transformable super Gundam like his giant robot series
>Does what he wants, when he wants, how he wants.

>>14496582
>If it's rebranded as a mobile suit, the first 3 RX suits aren't the Federation's first mobile suits anymore.
No, they are. The RTX-65's rebranded status doesn't make it a true mobile suit, just a retroactive wannabe via semantics.

>If they already had that sort of technology, it still defeats the point of what the One Week Battle facilitated.
They...didn't have that sort of technology? Which is kind of the point I'm trying to make here; it's just a rebrand. Nothing changed about it aside from some higher-up's insistance on an advanced MBT being considered a mobile suit. Same could be said for the RX-75, really.

>>14496611
>Also unrelated, but KotoR's canon in Disney's EU now, IIRC.

I think what they said is that the KotoR trilogy takes place SO long ago and affects literally nothing else, that it doesn't matter if it's canon or not,

>>14496629
Unfortunately, the terminology behind Mobile Suits is too vague to argue this properly. Regardless, anything would have been fine to take the place of the early Guntank. Even Type 61s which appear anyways. They only existed as a contrivance to show off how much of a snowflake Char was.

>>14496611
>built by an ace pilot
I don't have Unicorn anymore so I can't check it, but the word 'built' is a bit of a red flag. That aside, it's never stated when exactly Haro was first constructed if it actually was Amuro's and again, the two seperate lines is still a bit of a stretch. An explanation would be necessary if Amuro's cameo in the flashbacks was.

>>14496710
>Regardless, anything would have been fine to take the place of the early Guntank. Even Type 61s which appear anyways.
There's no way they could have done this. Type 61s are two man vehicles, and they needed to replicate the scene from the manga without breaching continuity on the appearance of the RX-75. Only way to do this is create a new design and call it an ancestor.

>>14496735
That's what I was getting at. The flashbacks were retarded.

>>14496755
What flashbacks?

>>14496628
I don't. I insert as Bright in every series like a real man besides CCA where I pretend I'm a Jegan pilot. And I'll do the same if they ever animate Flash of Hathaway.

>>14496773
Everything that took place before Amuro's story?

>>14496780
>ZZ Bright
>Gets fed up with these retarded kids and just leaves
I can understand that, sort of.

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>>14491222
2d does look better

>>14496787
That's a prequel story, not a flashback

A flashback is an event shown in the past to explain an event or circumstance in the present

>>14497093
It was Sayla and Char's flashbacks from the manga being rearranged into a prequel OVA. The problem came from the manga, hence flashbacks.

>>14497144
Oh okay. I wasn't sure what you were referring to.

An argument can be made for Thunderbolt being alt-UC, maybe, but The Origin anime is pretty clearly meant to be part of the mainstream UC, retcon or otherwise. The assumption that a random weapon added here and there and some invalidates it is a pretty stupid.

>Origin
>canon

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>>14497319
By that logic the assumption that taking place in a small, isolated theater of the OYW with some A Bao A Qu on the side invalidates Thunderbolt is pretty stupid as well. More importantly, though, it's not so much that adding an early Guntank invalidates Origin as much as it is an insult to the original continuity a lot along the lines of the 08th MS Team mobile suits, for example. There's still plenty of other pointless stupid shit in Origin beyond the Guntank Early Type as well; so much so that it comes out pretty worthless altogether.

>>14497382
>There's still plenty of other pointless stupid shit in Origin beyond the Guntank Early Type as well
Nothing in the OVA readily comes to mind, Guntank Early Type included.

Manga's a different story but that is actually alt-UC, so...

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>>14497382
Thunderbolt adds in a random Full Armor Gundam when it's pretty vague whether or not the original was built or remained in the planning stages, not to mention the Re-use psycho device is pretty awkward. Even if you use the EW excuse for artistic license in terms of MS designs, the idea of a Full Armor Gundam not only existing but being so fast that god-tier snipers can't seem to hit it is a bit rich. Acceleration was always the Full Armor Gundam's achilles heel, yet FA-78 in the Thunderbolt ONA is zig-zagging around like a madcunt.

Strangely enough, Thunderbolt would have been the perfect place to put the currently-unused RX-78-3 G3 Gundam to use in-continuity. We already know it existed thanks to MSV being given official status, but it STILL doesn't have a pilot during the OYW, and instead got some postwar Zeon-loyal twink piloting the thing and fucking up left and right.

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>>14497577
>Garma was always a fag for Char since they were 8! Huh? Who's Icelina?
>My name is Kycilia, I am now even more literally Hitler than Gihren for some reason
>here's a pointless Guntank because Type 61s and fucking transport vans with a mounted machine gun don't exist
>kek, I've never fought before, but I'll immediately be a badass ace pilot who can take out 3 trained soldiers while they catch an idiot ball because I'm just that 8 years old
>Giant armored assassin who can survive getting stabbed in the head
>teehee, here's a pointless Mirai cameo for literally no fucking reason
>teehee, here's a pointless Amuro cameo so we can create more continuity errors than we solve
>I look literally exactly like Char, but I have a different eye color!
>I know that my voice and demeanor is the polar opposite of his, but this security officer couldn't possibly tell if we change clothes!
>lol mobile workers have a shit cockpit because retarded
>I somehow know you're Casval and not some other crazy lookalike!
>lol here's a backstory for your mask Char
>Char started the One Year War, Gihren just went with the flow when Zeon attacked the Federation with a 5 second warning!
>Here's some Guncannon Early types too, because the V Project needs to exist for a completely different reason!
>What do you mean Zakus were supposed to be close-range anti-ship/anti-fighter weapons anyways? What's the Pacific Theater?
>Red is a nice color, isn't it?

>>14497432
That's all true. The odd thing is that it's not all that different from what we've already gotten from the OVAs. The stupidity is nothing new, but it's been consistently bad. 0080 is the only partial exception.

>>14488817
>Loam
It's Loum nigga.

>>14494751
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lM-IE474t0k

>>14495097
Did you watch the final episode when GM's Zerg the fuck out of Zeon? Zeon gets their face raped in Igloo.

>>14495331
You realize the entire insides of a Ground Gundam are the exact same parts of the GM variant right? The left over parts are shit like the powerplant and the armor.

>>14497382
>He doesn't know about the South Seas Alliance.

>>14497828
>>Here's some Guncannon Early types too, because the V Project needs to exist for a completely different reason!
the RX project actually did start in March of 0078, and is not the same thing as the V Project

>>14497875
>smooth movement
>less gaudy colours
>really nicely animated MS
>battleships look a billion times better
Why in gods name does Origin not look that good? The 0079 parts were exactly what Origin SHOULD look like.

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>>14497828
I'll reply to the ones worth replying to.

>Garma was always a fag for Char since they were 8! Huh? Who's Icelina?
Garma IS a fag for Char, just didn't know it yet at the time. Bitching about that's kind of shitty.

Also, Icelina's an Earthnoid. Couldn't have met her yet.

>My name is Kycilia, I am now even more literally Hitler than Gihren for some reason
300% true to her character.

>here's a pointless Guntank because Type 61s and fucking transport vans with a mounted machine gun don't exist
Type 61's are two man vehicles.

>teehee, here's a pointless Amuro cameo so we can create more continuity errors than we solve
I don't remember anything that actually said Amuro built Haro outside of an errant comment from Banagher, but feel free to correct me on this one (seriously, I don't want to comb through 0079 for the line that confirms it.)

>lol mobile workers have a shit cockpit because retarded
It's a mobile worker, not a weapon yet. It's kind of a plot point.

>I somehow know you're Casval and not some other crazy lookalike!
This is explained in the very OVA.
>lol here's a backstory for your mask Char
Fuck you man, that shit was cool.

>Char started the One Year War, Gihren just went with the flow when Zeon attacked the Federation with a 5 second warning!
Gihren WAS kind of an opportunistic bastard...and technically Char didn't start the OYW, just the Zeon rebellion against the fed security garrison stationed at Side 3. It LED to the OYW, but through kind of a long winded leap of logic. Char just took a ride on the coattails of history.

>Here's some Guncannon Early types too, because the V Project needs to exist for a completely different reason!
The RX Project DID start in 0078, though >>14497965 beat me to that one...

>Red is a nice color, isn't it?
Fuck you, that was cool, too.

>>14497976
>smooth movement
>less gaudy colours
>really nicely animated MS
>battleships look a billion times better
Origin's CGI is mileage may vary, but you're full of shit if you think any of those are true. Gihren's Greed's cutscene's cut corners like a motherfucker, and only do the (almost) bare minimum to get the point across (EiS does the actual bare minimum.)

>>14488817
I'm exited. But I'm even more exited about Lalah getting some backstory

>>14498008
>I'll reply to the ones worth replying to
>I'll reply to the ones that aren't blatantly clear and make it sound like the rest are just stupid to come off as confident and secure

>Garma IS a fag for Char, just didn't know it yet at the time
There is literally nothing to suggest it throughout the entire series outside of Origin and sort of Char's shower scene if you ignore that every military does that anyways.

>Also, Icelina's an Earthnoid. Couldn't have met her yet.
That's not the point. If it were, then that would be arguably even more retarded. Icelina is proof Garma isn't a humongous fag for Char.

>300% true to her character.
If by you 300% you mean flanderized to all hell and erasing every little sense of ethics and reason she had.

>Type 61's are two man vehicles.
>Guntanks aren't a two man vehicle
The role they served is stupid regardless.

>anything that actually said Amuro built Haro outside of an errant comment from Banagher
It was discussed moderately in Zeta, but that aside, it serves no purpose and confuses everyone.

>It's kind of a plot point.
It serves no purpose other than acknowledging that exposed cockpits are retarded in a series 90% lacking exposed cockpits.

>It LED to the OYW, but through kind of a long winded leap of logic.
For starters, that was a blatant act of war. The emphasis on the exponentially brewing tensions between Zeon and the Federation also defeats the point of Zeon suddenly just attacking like assholes. In comparison, the development process of the Zaku showed how Zeon was conniving behind the scenes to attack.

>The RX Project DID start in 0078
The Guncannons influenced how Revil's speech should be interpreted, and the V Project is specifically about not only the mobile suits, but also the White Base and the Core Fighter that united them. It was made as a last pitch to change the tides of the war.

>Fuck you man, that shit was cool.
>Fuck you, that was cool, too.
The author literally made Char into Spiderman.

>>14497828
>0080 is the only partial exception

Make that "one of the only good Gundam OVAs".

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>>14497899
Indeed.
Space Buddhists is a weird thing in a post-OYW story

Are there still people who believe the Ground Gundam was developed from the Ground GM when its actually the other way around?

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>>14498033
>I'll reply to the ones that aren't blatantly clear and make it sound like the rest are just stupid to come off as confident and secure
To put it more accurately, I was replying to the ones that actually seemed like an issue with consistency and not you being a big baby about not liking [thing], but put it however you like.

>That's not the point. If it were, then that would be arguably even more retarded. Icelina is proof Garma isn't a humongous fag for Char.
Are we still talking about the OVA, here? Because that scene is from after the OYW started.

Only issue I had with The Origin is the fact that they made Garma into such a big fucking baby during the pre-war era. That shit got old quick.

>If by you 300% you mean flanderized to all hell and erasing every little sense of ethics and reason she had.
>Kycilia Zabi
>ethics

>It serves no purpose other than acknowledging that exposed cockpits are retarded in a series 90% lacking exposed cockpits.
Well, every kind of mobile weapon up until then had an exposed cockpit, which is kind of the point of Ral's input; a mobile suit needed something different.

>For starters, that was a blatant act of war.
True, but it wasn't the cause of the OYW. In the manga, Degwin has to calm things down after that incident, and the OVA will likely follow that route.

>The emphasis on the exponentially brewing tensions between Zeon and the Federation also defeats the point of Zeon suddenly just attacking like assholes.
I'm not really sure why this is a grievance, since Zeon still does exactly that. It's a more believable scenario than Zeon straight up deploying Zakus to Side 6 to back their independence movement, since that would have been a far bigger demonstration of MS capabilities that would supercharge interest in MS development for the Federation.

>and the V Project is specifically about not only the mobile suits, but also the White Base and the Core Fighter that united them.
And it still is, so I don't see the problem.

>>14498033
>If by you 300% you mean flanderized to all hell and erasing every little sense of ethics and reason she had.
The extent of Kycilia's ethics have always been "what course of action in this scenario would get me ahead?"

Killing Sasro may have been done out of spite, but it was a decision that greatly benefitted the Zabis in the end.

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>>14488817
>See MS IGLOO image for OP in catalog
>Think it's an MS IGLOO thread
>Read OP to find out it's an argument over if Origin is part of the main timeline
Such pressure, bait is near.

>>14499313
How so? Even if they were able to make the Ral's look like they were behind his assassination, he was still the political brains of the Zabis and public opinion would have turned on the Ral's regardless based on how well he was able to manipulate the press. if Sasro were still alive he would have more than likely would have put together an operation to kill Casval and Artesia using competent people to finish the job as opposed to Kycillia who at first let them go, and then used local thugs to try and kill them. If anything it was Kycilia who fucked everything up for the Zabi's throughout the Origin timeline with her scheming since Zeon would have won the Battle of A Baoa Qu if she didn't assassinate Girhen and throw the chain of command into chaos and bolster Artesia's insurrection forces. Plus that lead to Char killing Kycillia, causing that massive chain reaction that destroyed the Dolos and a portion of A Baoa Qu.

>>14497828
Origin is literally the Crisis Core of UC. The need to explain away everything and throw in winkwink,nudgenudge lines which are devoid of any subtlety.

>>14499413
Go away

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>>14499433
Origin is a angst wankfest about an OC donut steel played by a washed out pop star?

>>14499413
Fuck off BK, your input is always worthless.

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>>14498008
I always liked how Char perpetually looked as if he was going to start belting out Riders on the Storm during his tenure with the AEUG.

>>14497577
>Strangely enough, Thunderbolt would have been the perfect place to put the currently-unused RX-78-3 G3 Gundam to use in-continuity.

Not tacticool enough.
Remember who's writing this and enjoy your heavy grit and murderdeathkills.

>>14499649
Aerith a best.

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>>14499791
Always.

>>14491294
Max Revolver dosent even look like it would belong to Chibodee any more
why did they Mangaka take a boxing, surfing, football player with revolvers and tun it into just a cowboy?

>>14496497
well i always took it as Turn A's past is an amalgam of those series in its own unique thing rather than those series end point

>>14499087
>I was replying to the ones that actually seemed like an issue with consistency and not you being a big baby about not liking [thing], but put it however you like.
I'm sorry for having standards for what asinine fluff I'm given, anon, but ignoring what's obvious under the guise of subjectivity and keeping up an argument in 4chan for hours is a bit of a paradox.
>Fuck you man, that shit was cool.
>Fuck you, that was cool, too.

>Are we still talking about the OVA, here? Because that scene is from after the OYW started.
It's about the depiction of Garma throughout the OVAs relative to the original series and the value of those differences, which is none.

>>Kycilia Zabi
>>ethics
>choosing to sit down and confront Char's objectives and identity, talking it out with him and moving on
>killing Gihren to avenge the patricide of their father by his hands
>escaping not just to save her skin, but also to preserve Zeon and negotiate for the remnants who will be captured

>every kind of mobile weapon
>read: the retarded Guntanks
Ral's input was just common sense.

>In the manga, Degwin has to calm things down after that incident
That's true. However, the instances of combat prior to the One Week Battle are still signs of war, whereas initially, whatever tensions there were aren't much different from what's happening with China, but their inferior military to much of the world aside, how would you react if they suddenly nuked, gassed, and invaded large parts of the Earth today?

>that would have been a far bigger demonstration of MS capabilities that would supercharge interest in MS development for the Federation
>a far bigger demonstration than eliminating almost the entire Federation space fleet twice over, capturing their general, and conquering about two thirds of Earth with almost no losses

>And it still is, so I don't see the problem.
Revil's speech, the actual designs of the mobile suits and White Base, etc. It's been covered a few times over now.

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>>14499649
yes

>>14499791
>Aeris a best.
ftfy

>>14498033
>For starters, that was a blatant act of war. The emphasis on the exponentially brewing tensions between Zeon and the Federation also defeats the point of Zeon suddenly just attacking like assholes. In comparison, the development process of the Zaku showed how Zeon was conniving behind the scenes to attack.

Wasn't the lead-up to the OYW always like that? The Side 6 revolution, backed up by Side 3 Zaku Is, was the real tipping point. War was inevitable by then, Zeon decided to get the first hit in while the Federation was still gearing up for it.

>>14500579
That's bullshit too, though. It's another example of the buildup lightening the impact of the OWB when Side 6 originally declared neutrality so they don't get gassed by Zeon like everyone else.

>>14499993
Or just every series ends at turn A, meaning in some AU like SEED rather than Zakus they use Ginns and shit.

>>14500760
see ive always liked some weird timeline that combines all of it in some convoluted singular timeline like UC>SEED>Wing>X>G>Turn A with lots of inbetween

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>>14500388
Not the guy your responding to, but you're kind of being a whiny bitch about this. Half the things your complaining about seem like more of personal issue with the source material's lack of total compliance with Gundam backstory that was pretty poorly set in stone to begin with, rather than actual lack of faithfulness with the rest of the franchise. Gundam's always been very vague about it's backstory outside of random books that few people read and that contradict each other anyway. Even then, Origin does a far better job of staying faithful than you're giving it credit for.

For example.
>a far bigger demonstration than eliminating almost the entire Federation space fleet twice over, capturing their general, and conquering about two thirds of Earth with almost no losses.

The One Week Battle isn't what made the Federation decide to finally develop mobile suits. They started back in 0078, and that's not something Origin invented; that's been the case since MSV was a thing back in 1983. On that note, the Pegasus Class was in development around the same time too, according to the same source.

The One Week Battle and Revil's rescue are what ststted the V-Project, which was more of a big rush to complete and deploy the Federation's MS with an assault carrier capable of transporting and maintaining them.

Not to mention your interpretation is wrong. Zeon actually suffered heavy losses during the outset of the war. That's the whole reason they sued for peaceful surrender of the Federation during the the Antarctic Treaty in the first place, not to mention the semi-successful invasion of earth. They still got pretty rekt in the process of all this.

>>14500706
The Riah revolution and Side 6 declaring neutrality are two different things.

>>14501004
To be completely frank, it's already been stated that there's an abundance of inconsistent side material and that's nothing new. Origin's existence was to clean these discrepancies up, but although it does do that to a certain extent, it does so while adding an abundance of it's own problems and stupidity to the pot.

>The One Week Battle and Revil's rescue are what ststted the V-Project, which was more of a big rush to complete and deploy the Federation's MS with an assault carrier capable of transporting and maintaining them.
I've said pretty much exactly that three times now. I don't get why everyone thinks I'm saying that everything began with the V Project just because it was the central topic.

>Zeon actually suffered heavy losses during the outset of the war
Every problem they encountered can be attributed to the size of the Federation, and they still completely outperformed them. It was more about not getting nuked when one well-placed attack would easily wipe them out.

>>14501083
No shit, that's the point.

>>14501251
>Origin's existence was to clean these discrepancies up
Citation needed

>>14501387
Go away, BK

>>14501251
>Origin's existence was to clean these discrepancies up, but although it does do that to a certain extent, it does so while adding an abundance of it's own problems and stupidity to the pot.
Eh, that just means business as usual. At least it's fun.

>>14501500
No, I want a source too. I thought it was Yas just retelling something he loved in his own way, so if you have contradictory evidence then I'd like to see it.

>>14501504
A. The OVA and Manga are not made by the same people, in spite ofnone being based on the other.

B. Sunrise essentially promoted Origin as a prequel about Char, meaning there was no intent to divorce the anime from MSG. The idea that the Origim anime is an alternate history seems to be an invention of westerners

>>14495480

jesus fucking christ

can anyone be this retarded, really?

>>14501635
A. It doesn't matter if the people behind the OVA didn't consult Yas, his work was still the template and there isn't a clear attempt to show that Yas's version of events are integrated into Tomino's.

B. That is entirely speculator on your part, and if you want to go down that road, it would be much better to have Origin be a separate timeline like they did with Thunderbolt because it allows Sunrise to reuse their most popular properties (The One Year War and Zeon) without further cluttering up the main timeline with more side stories which was becoming an issue. Origin, like Thunderbolt creates some major deviations to the original plot because sunrise decided to value author creativity over the main timeline. If both series are popular enough to continue, I'd want you to say with a straight face they wouldn't follow the how the manga was done.

Also, I'd like to see you bring forward creditable evidence that the Japanese fanbase are treating Origin as part of the main timeline and not as its own separate one.

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>>14504646
>Also, I'd like to see you bring forward creditable evidence that the Japanese fanbase are treating Origin as part of the main timeline and not as its own separate one.

I've yet to see evidence to the contrary. The burden of proof is on the person making the claim, and Sunrise has never so much as remotely implied that the Origin OVA is meant to be a separate endeavor from UC proper, and likely never will because they don't put the same level of importance on trivial bullshit as westerners do, so it doesn't matter what "makes more sense"; Char's origin story is now the de-facto source of characterization leading up to the man he was in 0079, the events within will now inform the way fans percieve the pre-war era, and there's nothing some faggot from an imageboard can do about it. Most people aren't nearly autistic enough to let an extra weapon here and a minor retcon there divorce it into a separate fiction from Universal Century.

Don't like it? Tough titties.

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>>14504984
So your request to show evidence proving your theory is to counter with, 'prove me wrong'. See pic. If you want me to play your silly game. Let's see, movies take priority, the contradictions already pointed out in the thread, other contradictions like how the Battle of Loum played out in comparison to MS IGLOO, the weaponry the Zakus used, ship and mobile suit designs, the fact that the Origin version going to use the retconned events that Zeon planned a second colony drop using a Loum colony as opposed to it being false intel to lure the Federation Fleet into a decisive battle. That's why you have so many fatal flaws in your theory, it has to hold up to scrutiny, which it doesn't. It's also the reason why stating you can go directly from A New Translation to Char's Counter Attack causes so much butthurt, there are no contradictions, no matter how trivial. Otherwise people would be trotting those out in every thread. Good luck if you want to take a swing at it.


So wake me when Sunrise produces a full Origin TV series instead of using piece from a magazine that contains a still of Char from a car commercial.

>>14505646
The fact that you posted that image macro as a response indicates a hilarious lack of self awareness on your part, BK...

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>>14505659
Stop replying to him. He's just shitposting, like always.

Hell, he doesn't even believe half the shit he posts.

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>>14505659
>>14505685
It would only apply if I weren't correct, but I am. So your attempt to turn it around on me is rendered moot.
>Thinking that's me.
Oh the desperation

^quod erat demonstrandum^

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>>14505708
>quod erat demonstrandum
>QED
>Quantum Eigenstate Device
Nice try Owlman.

>>14505646
>So your request to show evidence proving your theory is to counter with, 'prove me wrong'
Considering the only one making the claim that the events of the Origin OVA do no apply to UC proper is a small handful of westerners on an imageboard of faggots that are wrong more often than not, -mostly you- ...yes; the burden of proof is on you, not the person asking "where the fuck was it ever said that this was alt-UC?"

>>14505742
HARD MODE: your personal interpretation of canon based on the semantics behind the word "filmed" I know this sounds crazy, but episodes of TV exist on film as well. Yes, even animation. is not a bearing on this argument.

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The very fact that MSD not only exists, but is telling Doan's story firsthand kind of goes pretty hard against the idea that Origin exists within it's own canon.

Just my two cents.

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>>14505742
Considering the source material for the animation creates massive deviations to the established timeline, but Sunrise hasn't come out with any statement regarding it. The burden of proof lies upon you to prove that Origin and Thunderbolt are part of the main timeline. The fact that you are presented with inconsistencies and all you can do is go 'Who cares?' and brush them aside shows how week your case is. As I said before, people always try to shit on the Movie timeline, but there have yet to be any creditable evidence that contradicts it even when getting down to the minor details like mobile suits. Like the GM III, which was developed during the Gryps Conflict

So, again, burden of proof is on YOU to explain how Origin is part of the main timeline with all the inconsistencies between the MSG Trilogy and Origin. Oh, let's not forget that the MS-03 in Origin was actually the MS-04 in all other versions.

>>14508386
>Considering the source material for the animation
Not him, but even Mark Simmons recently admitted that supplementary material is all pretty much in the air at this point, and was always pretty shaky and inconsistant to begin with. Seeing as it tended to contradict each other all the time in the first place, it's probably best that Origin's finally setting the record straight for the more normie Gundam fans that don't lurk mechatalk to sperg in toysdream's latest thread.

So the way I see it, best way to approach Origin is treat it like the new canon unless specifically told otherwise by the horse's mouth.

>Movie timeline
What?

>>14509458
>What?
Black_Knight has this theory that TV Series and Movies are specifically segregated into separate timelines adhering to those formats.

It's a load of shit he made up that he uses to shitpost, and will play an extensive semantics game about the word "filmed works" (because I guess Kamille and Char are literally standing in front of a camera or something) that would bewilder anyone working for Sunrise, but trying to fight him on it is just going to derail an otherwise interesting thread.

>>14508386
those were never canon, nigga paladin

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>>14508386
>ZI-XA2
>ZI-XA3
>random bullshit from a hobby magazine
Guess the Solomon Express G-2 is canon now

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>>14509458
>>14509520
>Simmons
Into the trash your assertions go. Even if we let all history before the One Year War and Sasiro never being mentioned slide. You still have other contradictions stemming from MS IGLOO as mentioned before not only at Loum and the mobile suits and ships themselves. But other issues like the Federation even having mobile suits. Episode 2 is pretty clear cut where the Feddies are using Zaku II's so they can infiltrate and destroy Zeon supply depots, but Episode 3 is where the contradictions become apparent. First, the Zeon propaganda video at start of the episode where they air Feddie testing footage and congratulating them on finally developing a mobile suit. But more subtle things like Oliver's look of horror when Schacht showed him the footage salvaged from Gene's Zaku before it was destroyed by the Gundam at Side 7. If this were the Federation's 2nd go around at developing mobile suits like Origin wants, there wouldn't be as much fanfare and shock from Zeon's side. Especially when the first attempt with Tem's Guncannons were a complete failure. I'd chock that up more for test pilots inexperience verses what was the ace corp of Zeon who actually helped design the mobile suits. As for the poor trolling attempt saying separating the various airings is wrong. I've yet to see any any evidence that contradicts it. In fact, Sunrise has actually given more and more creditable evidence towards it. Just look at the retcon they put into the SEED movies where they removed Mwu's helmet from the TV version, and had he return in SEED Destiny. Or how there there are no contradictions between A New Translation and Char's Counterattack so you can go directly through them all. As for OVAs, unless they have contradicting materials, they are included. Unicorn was the only one with that (ZZ), but surprise, they made it a TV series, TV timeline it goes. Even making the claim the 'Film' versions don't count, doesn't discount the timelines.

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>>14512621
>Even if we let all history before the One Year War and Sasiro never being mentioned slide.
You might as well, considering Zeta never mentioned the colony drop in 0083 and MSG never mentioned the Federation having functioning MS in October, much less participating in Odessa.

>You still have other contradictions stemming from MS IGLOO
MS IgLoo's just as guilty as any other Gundam OVA of retconning shit in, like vanilla RGM-79s being in space in November, GM Kai's making up half the forces at A Baoa Qu. Using it as an example of why Origin is alt-UC is kind of hypocritical.

Strangely enough, IgLoo contradicts it's OWN RETCON. The RGM-79C being in the OYW actually piggybacks off of 08th MS teams RGM-79E, which came from Luna II. The Federation didn't start sending Jaburo's version of the GM into space until weeks later. They should have used the RGM-79E if they wanted to demonstrate Federation Mobile suits in space during November.

>But more subtle things like Oliver's look of horror when Schacht showed him the footage salvaged from Gene's Zaku before it was destroyed by the Gundam at Side 7.
I could ask you the same thing considering the existence of the RGM-79E and the RX-79[G]/RGM-79[G] prior to October 24, which is the day he saw that. The Federation has had numerous mobile suits deployed in small numbers by that point, and Oliver apparently didn't know about -any of them-, and a laughing stock like the RX-77-01 is far less notable or successful than any of those previous mentioned suits.

>I've yet to see any any evidence that contradicts it.
Actually, Char's Counterattack directly references Haman Karn's actions posing as a protector of the Zabi legacy, which he would have no reason to do had ZZ not happened, as in A New Translation, Haman Karn took no action against the Earth Sphere in the end and sent Mineva down to Earth for studies.

Kind of pokes a hole in this headcanon of yours that Sunrise has never indicated even being remotely the case.

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>>14509520
That sounds completely faggotrocious; I don't remember dick about Sunrise mentioning anything about separate canons even for shit that SHOULD exist in a separate canon, like EW.

>>14513756
That's his main argument for it actually.

>>14496611
>Also unrelated, but KotoR's canon in Disney's EU now, IIRC.

Nnno it's not? Elements of it have been included and reworked for the canon, but KotOR itself is not canon.

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>>14513788
No, he didn't start arguing for it until Unicorn made specific mention of ZZ. Before that, he used to claim that A New Translation retconned ZZ out of existence, which is especially retarded in itself because Tomino had already said that the alternate ending was just because he watned to end things on a nicer note.

Basically, he got BTFO, so he went through mental gymnastics to convince himself that he was still right.

Basically, he's an annoying shitposting sperglord and it is the duty of every anon on /m/ to either disregard any input he has to say on any subject.

>>14513624
The latter two can be rationalized because the Feddies did everything in their power to erase Operation Startdust from their records, and GMs weren't the make or break for the Battle of Odesssa. On the flip side, blacking out the existence of one of the Zabis, especially from Dozle's side is a lot more vexing. If anything it would make good propaganda to mention him at Garma's funeral.

You have yet to point out any true inconsistencies in MS IGLOO. First off, there was only one record of the RGM-79E being sorted and it was Sanders team which was nearly completely wiped out. Second, I have yet to see anyone, Sunrise or third party give a strict date for the roll out of the RGM-79, only that it was first deployed in November. So you can't dismiss the fact there were GMs attacking the 603rd are within the established timeline. Third, the RGM-79Cs at A Baoa Qu was done to bridge the gap between the Federation's mobile suit development between the original series and and 0083 because they have a track record for continuing to use the same mobile suits well after they become obsolete, so having them being mass produced at the end of the war to supplant the original GM makes perfect sense. Add to the fact that they are better adapted for space use making the GM and GM kai an inverted version of the Zaku II F and Zaku II J. Four, there is nothing in any series that shows that anyone on Zeon's side, minus Command and those who had direct contact with the Gundam, or orders to hunt it down knew of its existence. More than likely it would harm troop morale because mobile suits were the one major advantage Zeon had over the Federation. (Just gauge the reaction of Oliver and Prochnow when they spot the GMs over Odessa.) At worst, people like Oliver knew the Federation had created operational mobile suits, but seeing it is as it reached towards a Zaku's main camera and destroy it is an entirely different thing.

Going along that tangent, the 603rd was focused on testing weaponry and they are in the military, so things are kept on a need to know basis. But if the Guncannons from Origin existed, they would have been public knowledge by then as proof to dangle over the Feddies' heads that they can't design good mobile suits and Oliver's reaction wouldn't have been as harsh.

Fifth, attempting to date things actually works against you since the only mobile suits the Federation deployed by late October was the Gundam, Guncannon, the RGM-79E and RX-79[G]/RGM-79[G] the non project V suits were only deployed for 2-3 weeks at best and only assigned to specific theaters in small numbers. And why would Oliver know? He was to busy evaluating what he thought was going to be Zeon's next gen mobile suit for the war.

Finally, you're grasping at straws. Since even if we go by your wording that Haman was the protector of the Zabi legacy. She was that in Zeta because she was using Minerva as a means of reestablishing the Zabis for her own benefit which Char called her out for when he was among the AEUG delegation at Axis. Once again, A New Translation has not left a loose end, no matter how trivial.

Don't see why you complain about the ideas of multiple timelines. Just combining all the TV and Movies into separate timelines since there was no way even the original movie and TV series could co-exist, let alone Zeta and a New Translation. Plus SEED is evidence of what version is prioritized when it comes to creating sequels You can shitpost all you want, but you have yet to provide compelling contradictory evidence, 'My way of translating a word so that it can create some doubt', does not fall into that category

Plus you skipped the other stuff.

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>>14515931
>The latter two can be rationalized because the Feddies did everything in their power to erase Operation Startdust from their records
>literally covering up a COLONY DROP.

Stopped reading here.

>>14516374
>yo remember that colony drop a month ago
>NOPE THAT CRATER WAS ALWAYS THERE, ALTHOUGH I DO REMEMBER EARTHQUAKES AND SHOCKWAVES COINCIDENTALLY HAPPENING A MONTH AGO
>why is the crater smoking then
>THAT WOULD BE OUR LONG-TIME NATIONAL PARK JELLOSTONE'S GEYSER, OLD FATEFUL
>if it was always there then why are we in a famine that started right when the disasters struck
>SOMETHING SOMETHING STOCK MARKETS, PLEASE MOVE ALONG

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>>14515931
>The latter two can be rationalized because the Feddies did everything in their power to erase Operation Startdust from their records
No, they expunged the Gundam Development Project from their records because of the fact that Physallis's nuke was used to cripple the Federation Fleet. They used the outcome of Operation Stardust as political leverage to push the formation of the Titans.

That's basic Gundam backstory, how did you fuck that up?

>>14515933
>She was that in Zeta because she was using Minerva as a means of reestablishing the Zabis for her own benefit which Char called her out for when he was among the AEUG delegation at Axis. Once again, A New Translation has not left a loose end, no matter how trivial.

Not him, but the issue is that A New Translation took out any involvement from Haman in the problem's plagueing the Earth Sphere. She's a non-issue past the movie trilogy. A big plot point of ZZ is the fact that Haman used the Zabi name to seize power in the Earth Sphere for herself, which is what Char was referring to in his speech. If the events of A New Translation were canon, the citizens of Sweetwater and the colonies as a whole would not only care very little about Haman using the Zabi name to hold power at Axis, they'd have no idea who she is, as she held zero relevance outside of Axis.

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>>14515931
>Second, I have yet to see anyone, Sunrise or third party give a strict date for the roll out of the RGM-79, only that it was first deployed in November.
Late August, with minor deployments on a trial basis. In early October, but never in intended combat with Zeon forces, and it was the RGM-79A model, which was not space capable (Luna II's RGM-79E filled that niche) nor did it incorporate Amuro's Learning Computer data. The B-type came in later October but did not reach space until after the battle at Jaburo due to their production being limited to Jaburo's production lines.

Source; RGM-79 MG manual and the RGM-79 Master Archive Vol. 1. Also should be noted that Luna II came up with the RGM-79G GM command, but Augusta apparently put through a small production run based on their similar RGM-79D, which explains why in the latest Blue Destiny Manga running in Gundam Ace, the Marmot team uses GM Command types with RGM-79D backpacks.

This means that the GMs in MS IgLoo either came from Luna II, which is a contradiction considering that Luna II's version of the GM was the E/C type, or a retcon made canon by virtue of being animated, the latter case being the most likely, meaning Origin's Guncannons are allowed to exist by the same rule.

Although it should be noted that Origin's in a unique position in both parties have a reason to cover up the event; it dealt with the defection of Professor Minovsky, a VIP in the Zeon homeland. The Zeon likely didn't want the common grunts to know about Minovsky's treason due to his heavy involvement in the creation of Mobile suits, and the Federation probably didn't want anyone to know that they not only fucked up, but that their mobile suit had actually collapsed on top of him, making the officers in charge of the operation accountable, and we know how Federation higher ups feel about accountability...

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>>14515933
>Don't see why you complain about the ideas of multiple timelines.
I don't think anyone has a problem with the idea so much as the fact that it is your own theory, yet you insist that everyone adhere to it and that contradictory information is not admissable in a discussion, especially when your theory has no actual relevance to Sunrise or how look at how Gundam canon works (in that they barely bother to.)

If these rules work for you, more power to you. You can poke some holes in it, but far be it from us to tell you how to look at something. That said, nobody else has any obligation to follow said rules, and your insistance on it completely invalidates your input in any discussion.

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>>14515931
>e latter two can be rationalized because the Feddies did everything in their power to erase Operation Startdust from their records
Factually incorrect, as >>14516488 pointed out. Good job on cocking that one up.

>and GMs weren't the make or break for the Battle of Odesssa
But they were there, which is the point of importance. Zeon would NOT have ignored that, and a weapons development bureau would not have been left ignorant to such battlefield conditions.

>First off, there was only one record of the RGM-79E being sorted and it was Sanders team which was nearly completely wiped out.
You're missing the point, which is that the RGM-79E was the one GM in space at the time. They could have easily justified Luna II building more, but decided to flub the lore even further.\

>I have yet to see anyone, Sunrise or third party give a strict date for the roll out of the RGM-79, only that it was first deployed in November.
I'd point out how that is not only wrong, but old news, but >>14516678 seems to have done the job for me.

>Third, the RGM-79Cs at A Baoa Qu was done to bridge the gap between the Federation's mobile suit development between the original series and and 0083 because they have a track record for continuing to use the same mobile suits well after they become obsolete, so having them being mass produced at the end of the war to supplant the original GM makes perfect sense.

Ignoring how the logic behind this is kind of backward, the actual reason is because 08th MS Team had it's own special snowflake predecessor of the RGM-79C and they decided to make it somewhat less retarded by shoehorning the MS the RGM-79E apparently inspired into the OYW.

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>>14518751
>Four, there is nothing in any series that shows that anyone on Zeon's side, minus Command and those who had direct contact with the Gundam, or orders to hunt it down knew of its existence.
...Which, in light of Origin's actual story, kind of supports the RX-77-01's existence, which I'll get to at a later point.

>More than likely it would harm troop morale because mobile suits were the one major advantage Zeon had over the Federation.
>At worst, people like Oliver knew the Federation had created operational mobile suits, but seeing it is as it reached towards a Zaku's main camera and destroy it is an entirely different thing.
...Ditto previous statement? You're kind of kicking your own argument's ass here.

>Going along that tangent, the 603rd was focused on testing weaponry and they are in the military, so things are kept on a need to know basis.
Literally the exact opposite; they need to know whether or not the machine they are testing can beat the opposition. It completely behooves someone within a weapons testing unit to know what the fuck they are fighting in order to gauge whether or not it'll be practical.

>Fifth, attempting to date things actually works against you since the only mobile suits the Federation deployed by late October was the Gundam, Guncannon, the RGM-79E and RX-79[G]/RGM-79[G] the non project V suits were only deployed for 2-3 weeks at best and only assigned to specific theaters in small numbers.
Which, honestly, Oliver SHOULD have known about, which kind of encompasses my point about IgLoo being just as retarded as other OVAs

>Finally, you're grasping at straws.
I'd respond to this but >>14516530 already did it for me. It's surprisingly easy to call you out on your lack of coherence in your shitposting, it seems.

>>14518751
>You're missing the point, which is that the RGM-79E was the one GM in space at the time. They could have easily justified Luna II building more, but decided to flub the lore even further.
I thought there were more. Sanders mentions losing wingmen in that episode, doesn't he?

>>14490962
GoL is written by the head writer of Wing's TV series and is claimed to be canon by said man, also GoL and FT are both referenced in the animated pictrailer by Sunrise which falls under animated canon which is the highest indicator of canon by Sunrise's standards.

>>14518758
>Literally the exact opposite; they need to know whether or not the machine they are testing can beat the opposition. It completely behooves someone within a weapons testing unit to know what the fuck they are fighting in order to gauge whether or not it'll be practical.
I thought the 603rd were just doing test flights and data collection, not combat trials. Sure, they deployed the Zudah to scare off the Ball team and to pick up friendlies fleeing from Operation Odessa, but the former was a case of attempting to assist friendlies under attack rather than actual combat (they only intended to scare off the enemies) and the latter was an emergency that called for every available ship to render assistance in any way that they could. Neither incident was meant for combat information gathering or actual battle trials of how the Zudah would perform.

>Which, honestly, Oliver SHOULD have known about, which kind of encompasses my point about IgLoo being just as retarded as other OVAs
Those details seem like things that intelligence officers and maybe frontline combat troops should know, not Oliver's unit which falls into technical/logistical support. They're not originally outfitted to perform combat trials either. It isn't until later in Apocolypse 0079 episode 2 that the Jotunheim and its crew are reorganized as part of an actual combat unit and have their experimental weapons officially put into combat use because Zeon has no other choice.

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>>14518758
>Just combining all the TV and Movies into separate timelines since there was no way even the original movie and TV series could co-exist.
The whole point is that it doesn't matter. Both are compatible with Zeta TV AND the movies. I checked.

>Plus SEED is evidence of what version is prioritized when it comes to creating sequels You can shitpost all you want, but you have yet to provide compelling contradictory evidence

That has more to do with Fukada's own personal storytelling incompetence than Sunrise's actual stance on canon. SEED is it's own bag of worms and using it as an example as to how canon works is incredibly shitty of you.

>Don't see why you complain about the ideas of multiple timelines.
As pointed out in this very thread, the idea itself is not a problem. The problem is that said idea is not the case, and is merely your interpretation of events based on your own internal (flawed) logic, so it's absolutely ludicrous to assume anyone here should follow it. Your understanding of Gundam lore is pretty inaccurate, as your own participation in this thread suggests.

>>14516678
>Although it should be noted that Origin's in a unique position in both parties have a reason to cover up the event; it dealt with the defection of Professor Minovsky, a VIP in the Zeon homeland. The Zeon likely didn't want the common grunts to know about Minovsky's treason due to his heavy involvement in the creation of Mobile suits, and the Federation probably didn't want anyone to know that they not only fucked up, but that their mobile suit had actually collapsed on top of him, making the officers in charge of the operation accountable, and we know how Federation higher ups feel about accountability...

That's the exact reason for Origin's own justification of the RX-77-01 existing in 0078, actually. Neither party wanted to divulge that the event even took place, for aformentioned reasons revolving around Professor Minovsky and his botched defection.

>>14518783
>Those details seem like things that intelligence officers and maybe frontline combat troops should know, not Oliver's unit which falls into technical/logistical support.
Oliver's unit is established specifically to assess various weapons on the field of battle and their performance and practicality. This involves being familiar with enemy progression in weapons development and the assessment of such, or communication with a department responsible for such assessments.

So this can either go one of two ways; They either should have known about the existence of the RX-77-1/01, RGM-79E, and RX-79[G]/RGM-79[G], or they existed purely to see if various weapons were suitable for propaganda, in which case, the knowledge of the aformentioned suits is not necessary.

You CANNOT have it both ways. The fact of the matter is, the 603rd was ignorant of mobile suits that were operational at that very moment. To assume that Origin is not admissable into proper UC simply because they didn't know about the Guncannons that were part of an operation that both parties endeavored to cover up doesn't hold up.

Sunrise may have been clumsy in introducing the Guncannon Early Type where it's awkward in the timeline, but it IS 100% compatible with established lore, given the circumstances of it's deployment.

>>14518784
>The RX Project faces an immediate overhaul.

Funny, that actually aligns with the RX Project's place in the timeline pretty well.

>>14518784
Why can't you have it both ways? Oliver was part of team that tested weapons that were slapped together or already stamped as 'rejected'. The head of his division would have been informed, but there is no reason for Oliver to be kept in the loop.

I must say, it's always considerate of you to keep the thread alive when I'm gone.

>>14516374
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>>14516678
>>14516788
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>>14518816
Meant the GDP which white washed from history the Federation's violation of the Antarctic Treaty. She and Axis were one of the major reasons why the Gryps Conflict ended the way it did, also the Titans promised to hand over Side 3 to Haman in exchange for her support, so she was hardly an unknown even in Zeta. Regardless, the quote in CCA was a throw away since I believe it was Char that mentioned Haman. Plus, if the citizens of Sweetwater knew who Char was, they'd know the back story of Zeon as a whole including Axis and Minerva. The whole history your listing off is moot because it was the basic RGM-79 GM type in MS IGLOO, not A, B, or C. Which means Jaburo could have easily had two squads shot up into space for testing, it also explains the fact why the Federation would approve of a mobile suit that happened to be even more volatile than the Zudah and the pilots didn't cut their engines before they exploded. But that is hypothetical. we do know they were the base model of GM, and those models did operate in space. How they got up there is a question, but they did get up there. So people have a problem with the fact that there are a Movie, TV, (and now Origin and Thunderbolt) timeline specifically because they have an issue with me, which would imply a portion of the reason people are always trying to knock it down or condemn it is motivated from spite and not because they have a workable alternative. (The Black Hole timeline of UC doesn't work, we've been establishing that. Hell, Thunderbolt's battle of A Baoa Qu had all Thunderbolt versions of their ships and mobile suits. (Minus the MSN-01.) Plus the fact the further we dig, the more it comes out in favor of the multiple timelines. Of course you're allowed to dispute those findings even if it means mincing words.

First off Oliver May was apart of a Technical Evaluation Unit, who's duty was to collect data on new experimental machines by testing their practicality and combat effectiveness. That means they focus on what they are given, and are a combination of testers and troubleshooters. They are not the people who develop weapons, they are not the people who are privy to the latest intel that Zeon collects. Only the head of the department, Schacht would have access to that, which is the case when he shows the footage of the Gundam to Oliver to show why the propaganda war featuring the Zudah was so imperative to counter the psychological advantage the Feddies were gaining because of the Gundam. You're wrong again, their job is to merely test the weapon, it's not mandatory it has to be against Federation forces. Case in the point, the Hildolfr would have just done some test firing until it encountered Czariano's squad. As for the rest of the prototypes and weapons, they were put into combat because Zeon needed to use everything to do damage to the Federation or as a decoy or propaganda. But don't think testing against the Federation itself was a requirement. Why should he? He's an engineer who's job is to evaluate whatever Zeon sends to the 603rd. You make it sound like Zeon is going to hold daily briefings on the latest enemies weapon, which shows how much you know about controlling morale in an army. ('And here's this weapon the enemy has that completely outmatches our mobile suits, wiped out Garma and his attack forces and humiliated some of our best aces?') Yeah, that's going to get the troops fired up. Still grasping at straws, only now more apparent.

That would imply Sanders was always a GM pilot, but since his nickname was 'Team Killer', there's a good chance he flew a tin cod or saber fish at the start of the war and lost his squad mates there since he wouldn't have enough time wit the RGM-79E to lose enough wingmen to earn a reputation that dogged him down to Asia.

Actually they aren't based on the ship designs. 0083 managed to create a cop-out by stating the ships in that version where the late OYW or 0083-refits. Which Origin never did. The fact you have to resort to ad hominems show you don't have a counter in any way, shape or form. Sunrise allowed it to happen, that's all that matters. The ideas aren't the problem, they're very sound and as of this point, have not had a major contradiction put in front of it. Now if Origin gets a TV show where they follow the events of the MSG movies or TV series, that proves Origin is apart of that respective timeline. Odds are they're going to follow Yas's version, which cements what I am saying. Same thing with Thunderbolt. If those poorly done scans are your evidence, I don't see it. Granted I need to find what happened to my copies to read it over again. But based on what you presented, it was implied by Zeon's side that the Feddies would attempt to cover it up, but as you can see, they didn't hedge their bets on that because they immediately killed the Mayor of Granada. Propaganda wise, Zeon could have easily spun the story that Professor Minovsky was kidnapped by the Federation and killed when they attempted to rescue him or hundreds of other stories. The end of the story is the Federation's mobile suits got crushed. But that's wrong, you can have it both ways. As stated before, their job is to test the weaponry only, not to deploy it in battle. They clearly didn't have any data on the GMs when they attacked the helpless Zeon forces in orbit because all he said was they were the Federation's mass produced mobile suit. So unless you can find evidence that shows Oliver was aware of the existence of mobile suits like the RGM-79E, and RX-79[G], all you have is extremely questionable hypothetical, while I can base mine off of scenes from the show itself.

>>14528357
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>>14509458
What's the point of arguing.
What's the point of anything.

>>14528366
I agree, you should go fuck off if you have no reason, only those with points can stay

>>14528334

> So people have a problem with the fact that there are a Movie, TV, (and now Origin and Thunderbolt) timeline specifically because they have an issue with me

People saying they take issue with a theory you propose isn't the same thing as them saying they have s problem with you.

>>14528382
Which is why there is such a backlash against it and it usually devolves into people attacking me, if not in the thread itself, in other threads as passing comments? Seriously trying to find where the reasonable criticism ends and the vindictiveness begins for this since there hasn't been any clear indication of them being separate.

>>14528444
Because the only proof of this theory you have requires several posts to explain and cherrypicking events into something you keep claiming is canon

patchwork logic != canon

>>14528473
What we're talking about right now is if Origin can fit into the UC Black Hole Theory. Based on the series itself being separate from Tomino's MSG, I don't see how it's the case. meanwhile people who support the theory are trying to create reasons to support it.

It's hardly patch work when it works out in the end and it keeps things neat and clean and allows Sunrise to make merchendice from all the different timelines. The only way things will end is if we get a definitive statement from Sunrise and they pull something like Nintendo did with Zelda.