Sup /m/. So, I just watched Char's Counterattack. What

>>14470510
Char Counterattacked, then Amuro and Char turned into fairy dust.

>>14470511
Okay, but why?

They seemed fairly friendly the last time I saw them.

oh look

its this thread again

>>14470529
You didn't read Beltorchika's Children? What are you some kind of faggot?

Char was 100% right

>>14470529
So, the best in-between explanation for the Z/ZZ to CCA shift is from a video game. Basically, at the end of Zeta when Char went AWOL, he watched everything turn to shit and realized that the Zabi way was the only way to achieve his father's ambitions.

Which is weird considering the son of Deikun was never really much for his father's philosophical bullshit.

Regardless, he shows up, takes over Zeon, the Feddies think he's friendly-ish because of Dakar and the whole AEUG thing, but Amuro knows better.

>>14470576
>he watched everything turn to shit
How did it turn to shit other than cleaning up the mess he made with Haman?

>>14470602
EF was still corrupt as shit and didn't reform, the earth was still a polluted shit-hole, the colonies and lunar cities never got the decentralized authority that should've come with reforms, etc.

Basically, the EF is more-or-less the same shitty establishment for the entirety of UC. The only way to reform it is to break it completely.

Personally, I'd like a better and more thorough explanation, but that's what it boils down to. Char's bitterness and general sociopathy should also not be underplayed.

>>14470576
Wrong wrong wrong. The "Zabi way" is taking control of Earth, which is exactly the opposite of what Char is doing in CCA. He is taking Earth off the table for human exploitation/dominance by force because he doesn't see it happening on its own. If you think about it, every single war in UC gundam is fought over control of the Earth EXCEPT, CCA. Char is trying to end this cycle and force humanity to evolve the way his father thought it would naturally.

>Which is weird considering the son of Deikun was never really much for his father's philosophical bullshit.
Completely wrong, he devotes his life as a young adult to eradicate the Zabi's corruption of the nation and spacenoid movement his father created. In Zeta he tries to use the AEUG and that speech in Dakar to get people to abandon the Federation follow his fathers ideals by choice. By CCA after the Zeon name has been abused for conquest of the Earth a second time and the Federation is as stagnant as ever, he's tired of waiting and is going to force it.

he went nuts the poor lad

>>14470576
>>14470783

> So, the best in-between explanation for the Z/ZZ to CCA shift is from a video game.

Except the video in question places the change squarely on Kamille and what happened to him, which is nonsense. Even if Char had actually cared that much about Kamille, he disappeared before he could have found out what happened to Kamille. He also never checked in on Kamille to find out what happened or see if he got better. There was no indication he found out via newtype senses while he was gone either.

>>14470529
>Okay, but why?
>They seemed fairly friendly the last time I saw them.


Watch the following https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQMz7YHPIiI

>>14470783
>The only way to reform it is to break it completely.

seems like one the reasons why some dumbasses voted Trump.

Char's shift was because of how everything went to shit as the end of Zeta. The PS1 game implies it was just Kamille getting brain-fried that did it, but it was more Neo-Zeon under Haman and the EF government not changing at all after the Titans were destroyed.

If you pay attention to the Dakar speech, he was already on the path to CCA Char. He just hadn't hit the idea of taking Earth out of the picture for humanity permanently.

The whole Quess/Hathaway thing was about how young newtypes were repeating the same mistakes Amuro and Char made with Lalah.

>>14471465
>If you pay attention to the Dakar speech, he was already on the path to CCA Char.

This.

The entire motivation for his actions in CCA is found in that speech. He just hoped that humanity would leave the planet on its own decision.

The ending of Zeta and the events of ZZ soured him on humanity being able to do willingly and he realized he would have to force things.

>>14471487
Not really, his Dakar speech was him vomiting Deikunism all over the assembly.
His pops would spin like a jet turbine in his grave, over what he did and attempted in CCA.
What a mighty shift from "our motherland should become a sanctuary to be cared for by the alliance of Sides."
His Dakar stance and his CCA stance are about as compatible as Deikun's and Gihren's, Pedo got so focused on little details, that the big picture flew right over his head.

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>>14471510
>His pops would spin like a jet turbine in his grave, over what he did and attempted in CCA.

Nah, he's the one who gave Char the idea in the first place.

>>14471521
I don't think that Gaia's wrath and retribution against the parasites, was supposed to involve suicide via a large island to the face.

Then again, dis' Nigga be high as fuck, trippin' dem' ballz.

>>14471510
>Pedo got so focused on little details, that the big picture flew right over his head
The philosophy is the same. The methods are different. What do you think he is missing other than a few screws in the head?

>>14471521
>hellfire
>try to turn earth into a ice cube

>>14471521
>Taking The Origin (non canon) (shit) into account at all when it comes to characterization

>>14471695
Well when he had no characterization to begin with, it's all there is.

>>14471708
Or maybe if there is no characterization you should not indulge in baseless speculations or at least refrain from drawing unjustified conclusions from them.
The Origin is a stand alone work written by a completely different person. There is no reason for you to use it as a basis to explain the events or characterization present in Zeta or CCA in which Yas had no involvement.

>>14471746
Or jus let people theory craft instead of getting this ass blasted autistic over it? Just let people have their fun.

That said it's also baseless speculation with your whole Deikun rolling in his grave thing. Hell it has less of a base than the origin shit, seeing as what little we know about Deikun from the past series is said from unreliable sources to say the least. Ergo you have a weaker ground to stand on with your own shitty point han the people using The Origin, yet go after them for making baseless speculation.

>>14471708
Origin Deikun's characterisation draws from Tomino's Zeta novels where he rants like a fascist nutjob on the evils of individual rights (said speech is actually translated in Jinbal Ral's notes in Origin episode 2). All Yaz did was add a messiah complex on top of that.

>>14471769
I'm not that guy. Nothing wrong with speculation and fun but aren't you two the ones getting autistic over it?

>>14470534
Well you know we can't go a month without the obligatory CCA thread.

>>14470529
>They seemed fairly friendly the last time I saw them.

Yeah, but so did Char and Garma the second-to-last time you saw them together. Char doesn't really have friends, just people he hasn't tried to murder yet. He doesn't really believe in causes, he just joins whichever one is convenient for getting him what he wants right now. Past the early parts of 0079, "what he wants right now," usually revolves around beating Amuro, somehow. In 0079 he wanted to beat him in battle. In Zeta he wanted to be a greater hero than Amuro was. Having failed at both, he basically tried to flip the board by going, "You know what?! Fuck you! You think you're so great, I'm going to destroy everything and let's see you stop me."

And I'm sure somebody's going to come up and say, "No, Char's honorable! He gave Amuro the psycoframe!" but that's bullshit. That's Char preemptively making an excuse for himself when he loses again. At the beginning of the movie Char and Gyunei go up against Amuro in the Re-GZ and they still manage to do jack shit to him while both of them retreat in their damaged mobile suits. Nu Gundam made it easier, but Char was going to lose no matter what. Amuro's better than him, and he's so butthurt about it that he'd rather die and take everything Amuro cares about with him than live in a world with somebody better than he is.

>>14471898
Go back to sleep, Amuro.

>>14471898

> In Zeta he wanted to be a greater hero than Amuro was

How about no. He wanted to stop the Titans and enact his father's will but didn't want any real responsibility. He did believe in the cause of stopping the Titans and stuck around till they were gone, but the AEUG weren't where he wanted to be once that was done.

I'm not going to say he's honorable, since I don't believe it, but I don't think there's anything to support the idea he wanted to one up Amuro at being a hero, which no-one outside a few friends ever really saw Amuro as in the first place, so he'd have no reason to think that way even if he was the kind to in the first place. It's just a really stupid idea.

Also, Char doesn't fight Amuro using the Sazabi. He basically just retreats and never even takes out his funnels. When Gyunei points out they can still fight he just shushes him. Char wanted to view himself as honorable and beat Amuro when they were both at their best since he completely believed he was the better pilot - that's all there is to that bit.

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>>14470510
Char was angry.
ANGRY ABOUT EARTHNOIDS.

>>14471746
>>14471695
>implying Tomino is a writer
>implying the UC works he directed were all written by one person
>implying Yas had no creative input on 0079
Hello, redditor. Are you enjoying your summer?

>>14471453
Reminds me of Senator Armstrong. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LmWQd8zhEg4

>>14472076

Not him, but Tomino is a writer. It isn't his main job and he often does it under pseudonyms, along with song writing, but he has written some episodes. I'm not sure if he wrote any episodes of 0079 himself off hand, but he's definitely written some episodes of other shows, like Turn-A. Castigating people for that when you're partially wrong yourself is silly.

>>14470529
They haven't explained jet, we just know that CCA was the end of a long chain of events
>>14470550
Beltorchika doesn't explain shit

>>14472162
He did write the episode where those dudes put bombs on the Gundam in the hopes of returning home to their families. That said he still did a large amount of the series' storyboards however coupled with the songwriting you mentioned. This is pretty much a natural part of almost any show he's directed though. I'm interested at taking a look at more of his storyboards; the only ones I've really came across were ones he did for a scene in OG Yamato and a glimpse of one he did for G-Reco.

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>>14472053
>Also, Char doesn't fight Amuro using the Sazabi.

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>>14470550
Belty's Children is terrible, NEWTYPE FETUS POWER GO!

>>14477163

> Only partially quoting
> Not realizing that he didn't actually use all of his weapons or even try to in that scene

Can you not understand context or something? He spends that scene retreating since he wants to fight Amuro in the Nu. Not because he's honorable, but because he has no concept of the idea he might lose, thinks himself genuinely the better pilot and wants to make Amuro acknowledge it by beating him on a level playing field.

>>14477178
But he deosn't spend that scene retrating. He's chasing Amuro at the beginning of the scene and only retreats when he starts losing, and he's losing even when Gyunei's helping him. He's not using his funnels, but those wouldn't help him anyway considering that Amuro has been sniping those things out of the sky for 14 years, and indeed they don't help him at when he does use them against Amuro.

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>>14477178

Here, Gyunei even points out that Char isn't using his funnels when he could be. And when Char makes Amuro hide, he chooses that moment to leave despite Gyunei urging him to finish it, with Char using Gyunei's state as an excuse. Char had Amuro running and was beating him in the Sazabi even without using funnels (he does use one once though oddly, but stops after that point, hence Gyunei's comment - reflex I guess?) and retreated because he wanted to rub it Amuro's face that he was better, not because he was honorable.rrr

>>14477225

> only retreats when he's losing

I'd love to see how you think he's losing since Amuro has to hide just before Char decides to leave.

>>14477227
>>14477232
But he wasn't retreating from the battlefield, he was putting himself in a position where Char and Gyunei had to come to him under his terms. That's how Amuro has always operated. He has no pretense of fair play or honor, he's just out to ensure that he survives and the other guy doesn't. We see him rigging mines out of more than one weapon and even weaponizing his decoy balloons during the movie.

Amuro doesn't give a shit about winning a face-to-face duel. If he can kill someone without exposing himself to danger then he'll do it. He did the same stuff in 0079, even sacrificing the Gundam itself so that he could take a shot at Char from relative safety.

>>14477247

None of that makes what he's doing winning though. He's certainly winning against Gyunei, and beating Zeon forces (winning would be stretching it since Luna II was falling), but he's not in any way winning against Char. He hasn't damaged Char at all, and as much as you want to dismiss funnels, they're still a weapon he could have used to initiate all range attacks and at least distract Amuro. He didn't though. And when Amuro went to find better ground (re: hid), he left, despite having the apparent advantage since his enemy had temporarily left. Sure, you can say he left to find better ground and make his enemy come to him - but he still hid. And Char still used an excuse in that situation to leave himself, since Luna II was already dropped and he didn't care about beating Amuro in his ReGZ - a thing he later verbally confirms by admitting why he leaked the psycoframe plans.

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>>14470529
Char has always been an insane attention whore psychopath. It was harder to see during Zeta, because the Titans and Neo-Zeon were so evil, but the guy is fucked up in the head.

>>14471817
Considering modern anime fans, I wouldn't be surprised so dumbasses just jump into CCA.

>>14477359
Or Char wanted to lose to Amuro and was just trying to bullshit a reason to give Amuro a huge advantage.

>>14470529
>>14470510
You are fucking stupid. It says a lot about people how often this exact same thread nearly word for word crops up.

>>14477416

I doubt it, given he shouts about how Amuro just doesn't understand what he's doing out of frustration, when he's alone in the cockpit and not in radio contact with anyone. Maybe he was just really committed to the act though. Who knows?

>>14472076
ebin :D

>>14477382
he's so fucking cool

>>14477382
You know what's actually sad? All the EU stuff about Garma actually makes it seem like if Char just told him Garma would've probably helped him get revenge on the other Zabis, Garma already had a reason to hate them anyway considering they hated his girlfriend.

>>14477777
QUINTS OF TRUTH

>>14477777
Garma's probably the least evil person in Zeon, but while his personal motives were in many ways laudable his naivete kept him from really looking at what was going in the world around him instead of just what was going on in his life. He wanted his dad to respect him and respect his choices, which is a pretty normal conflict for a teenager to have with his father, but he didn't hate his dad.

If Char had told him the truth he wouldn't have believed it, and he would almost certainly have brought it up to Degwin and asked his father to say it wasn't true.

>>14470529
Char was only on good terms with Amuro in Zeta because a lot of people in the AEUG were friends with him so it'd fuck up his agenda if he started anything with him. I don't get why this is so hard to comprehend it's not like he did the same exact thing with Garma before blowing him up or anything.

>>14470783
He doesn't want to reform the EF, he's running on a level above that, he wants to reform the human species.

>>14470864
This is a pretty good answer. Did he really care about the Earth though? IMO Char seems more focused on humanity than Earth, makes more sense seeing as he's gonna drop that shit into a nuclear winter.

>>14480007
Part of the reason he wants people off Earth is to save it from human exploitation, and that's a part of contolism, the philosophy his dad created. He's dropping a big asteroid on it to get people to leave by making it uninhabitable to human life which sounds like a big contradiction, although from Char's perspective that's probably a case of figuring that it's better to cause a lot of damage so that humans will leave earth it will eventually recover from rather than leaving Earth to humans forever, which it might never recover from. Char always was a "ends justify the means" kind of guy, but by CCA he's really far down that path.

Victory proves Char right and wrong, the Earth is really bad off in Victory and the technology is so destructive in the war between the Zanscare and the League Militare that every single battle does irreparable damage. On the other hand, the Federation is at it weakest and doesn't really have control over the colonies anymore, despite this, the colonies don't become what Zeon wanted them to be, they just fight among each other in space and (in Zanscare's case) try to conquer Earth.

>>14480028
Good point, the contradiction was the killer for me, and it didn't really seem like he needed any more reason than just evolving humanity. But that is something with Char, he has multiple goals and motives at pretty much every moment

>yet another "CCA DOESN'T MAKE ANY SENSE" thread

>>14480028
Everyone is retarded by Victory, proven by thinking battleships that are also enormous motorcycles are a good idea

>>14480092
Hey, to be fair, those battleships were practically invincible.

>>14480099
And it's kinda terrifying when rather than threatening to bombard you're city they just flatten it instead.

>>14480092
Hey man you gotta sell those toys

>>14480028
There's a small problem - through their technology, humanity will outlast the rest of the ecosystem.
To chase them off the Earth, you'll have to literally kill the planet beneath them.

>>14480028
Dropping a space rock on Earth is human exploitation. Did he even consider how many species of plants and animals would go extinct? It's ridiculous. Domon should've shown up and slapped him around while giving his "humans are part of the earth" speech.

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>>14480419
>Dropping a space rock on Earth is human exploitation.

Could this man possibly be a hypocrite?

>>14480419
And? It's not like Char was ever that logical in the past. He's an extremely petty piece of shit who lets his emotions get in the way of his critical thinking, guy almost threw his chance to kill Kycilia away cause he got super butthurt over Amuro beating him in a few skirmishes. Hell even killing Garma and telling him he did it on purpose over a radio was fucking retarded.

>>14470529
Only because they were both fighting the same enemies.

Was Chan's soul absorbed by the psycoframe sample she was carrying with her? After her ReGZ explodes it flies all around the battlefield, and Amuro says he can sense her as he's fighting Char.

>>14480711
>those shitheads living on earth are destroying it!
>I know! I'll destroy earth to teach them a lesson!
char pls