Why are opinions among Gundam fans so divided on SEED in particular?

>>14310198
Same. I started it the other day and I'm 10 eps in and aside from the character design I like it a lot so far.

>>14310225
>I'm 10 eps in
Oh boy
Ooooh boy

Divided? I thought it was pretty well agreed all around that it's crap.

>>14310198
>and after twelve episodes
>>14310225
>10 eps
Hey anons, did you know most people have actually finished SEED? Did you know most people have actually finished both SEED and Destiny, some even were around when it was airing.

Come back when you're finished with the C.E. and see if you can make this thread

It's either 4 things with SEED. You have people that like it, and don't like it.

Then you have the two groups,
>STOP LIKING WHAT I DON'T LIKE
>STOP DISLIKING WHAT I LIKE
that fight to the death over their computer screens on /m/.

>>14310198
It starts off strong because the plot is a retelling of 0079, but it gets worse as it goes on. By the time the Freedom is introduced it's more or less shit. The phase shift and limited combat time was great and I lost interest once that was tossed, among other reasons

I'll be honest, Seed was pretty boring. I actually found Destiny more entertaining than seed.

There is a specific point where it goes from "eh I guess this is ok/actually this is pretty cool" to almost complete crap. At least you have the remasters to help with the terrible animation.

Actually, did the remasters do anything for the horrendous stock footage in the latter half of the series?

>>14310333
no remaster only ruined Nicols death and cut out the recap episodes.

>>14310337
NICOL WAS 15

>>14310242
No, there are people who insist that it's only mediocre, or is actually good and only gets hate because of Destiny.

I mean, if you're into the teenage melodrama bullshit, the MS designs and the music, I can see why people would like it. But overall it's a weak product that attracted the wrong crowd for Bandai.

>>14310333
>At least you have the remasters to help with the terrible animation.
Yeah, sure, like replacing Kira with a poorly drawn version of how he looked in Destiny.

>>14310333
I thought the remasters gave Kira a much uglier character design

>>14310257

Aren't the two groups in BOLD LETTERS basically just a subset of the first two?

>>14310333

>Actually, did the remasters do anything for the horrendous stock footage in the latter half of the series?

Nope, in fact the remaster made some bits look worse ie. >>14310346

>>14310343

>Attracted the wrong crowd for Bandai

I sometimes wonder if Bandai have ever succeeded in actually getting new, long-term Gundam fans or will Gunota just ended up being a group of "old, bitter" people from the 20th century

SEED is barely ok, try its sequel Destiny.

>>14310353
gunota's souls are weighed down by gravity, there's no helping them

all they can do is keep making more OYW fanwank

>>14310353
>BOLD LETTERS

Biological
Organisms
Lambasting
Detritus

Laughable
Egregious
Trash
Truncated as
Evermore
Regurgitated
Shows

I'll give you my reaction to this show as it was coming out. My background with Gundam going into it was: I saw the movie compilations of MSG on VHS, saw some crabstick subs of Zeta, and watched Wing on Toonami. I got involved with Gundam forums back in the day, but I was excited to be apart of the fandom during the release of a new series.
>First Episode
This might be alright. I'm not against a (then) modern retelling of 0079
>Second to Fifth Episode
I'm not really liking most of the cast, but that's okay. The opening song is alright but the actual opening is boring. This show is already formulaic, though.
>Sixth Episode
Really, the Luna II thing again? Maybe this retelling is too faithful.
>Seventh, Eighth, and Ninth
This is getting pretty exciting. Still don't like most of the cast.
>Tenth episode
I hate most of the cast
>Eleventh, Twelfth, and Thirteenth
At least the set pieces are fun
>Fourteenth Episode
Space whales? Huh.
>Fifteenth Episode
Geez, this is boring
>Sixteenth Episode
Kira got laid? Nice.
>Seventeenth to Twenty-First
You know, I can get behind this show. Maybe it just took some time to grow on me. I like the choreography (sand wall to deflect missiles? Fucking sweet) Kira is even getting kind of badass.
>Twenty-Second to Twenty-Fourth
Oh yea, I hate the cast.
(1/2)

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>Twenty-Fifth
Why can't this show be about ZAFT? I guarantee that a show in this setting surrounding a ZAFT cast would be better.
>Twenty-Sixth
You know, I was tolerating the stock footage, but jesus christ, I don't know how much more of this I can take.
>Twenty-Seventh
Kill me.
>Twenty-Eighth-Thirtieth
Fuck these stakes are getting real. Also, I must've rewatched that Nicol deathscene like four times! I'll never get sick of it!
>Thirty-First
Akira Ishida is a bomb ass voice actor. I think I love Athrun
>Thirty-Second and Thirty-Third
This show may have its faults, but I love how much they develop the bridge crew. It makes the cast feel more alive, and gives the show more stakes.
>Thirty-Fourth
Well, Kira is even more insufferable now, but at least the action is good.
>Thirty-Fifth to Fortieth
At least the action is good.
>Forty-First to Forty-Fifth
What the fuck is actually happening? Ultimate coordinator? The fucking Three Ships Alliance is using some console commands or shit. How did this happen? At least the action is good. When its not stock footage.
>Forty-Sixth-Fiftieth
Errr uhhh.... I think I don't like this show. Can't say it was all bad. But it wasn't a favorite.
This setting has potential, I hope it gets a sequel.

The dark secret of SEED is that it's really not that noticably bad as a cohesive whole. Each element people talk about individually are certainly bad. Kira is insufferable, but in the universe of SEED you really don't notice him. The mech designs are tired but you are only really aware of this when you compare it to other shows. The show was most intriguing conceptually when it was apeing the original series, but when it tried to form its own identity, it became two-dimensional, but also more visually exciting. I hate to take a middle of the road position, but its hard to summon strong feelings about SEED. I'm only reminded of it because Bandai won't let us forget it.

The ost is great, and anyone who says otherwise has shit taste.

(2/2)

>>14310343
>No, there are people who insist that it's only mediocre, or is actually good and only gets hate because of Destiny.
Well maybe those could be so. Admittedly I don't have a lot of ground to stand on for calling it shit, since I only watched up until the desert stuff early in the series and noped out since it was painfully obvious they were rehashing MSG.

Let's be honest the only reason you suffer through destiny is to reach the Stargazer at the end, aka "Reward for finishing Destiny"

>>14310455
>Watch a shit series for a 45 minute toy commercial
What?

>>14310198
I'm in it for the music, melodrama, and some mech designs. The transitions to the ED of most episodes were godlike.

>>14310505
This. ED transition for River is still GOAT for all of Gundam. Money well spent. There's plenty of other series that do animation right, like G-Reco and Unicorn. But SEED holds it's own when it comes to music and how to sync it with the scenes seamlessly.

>>14310456
>Stargazer
>Toy commercial
All of gundam is a toy commercial anon, its just some are better than others. Like Stargazer. It made me buy a Strike Noir

>>14310516
>implying you wouldn't buy Strike Noir even if you never saw Stargazer and just saw the box from window shopping

Don't deny it. You don't have that much self restraint. Where do you think you are?

SEED is a mediocre story that gets dragged down by its sequel being completely awful.

This is not to say that SEED is good. With its emphasis on melodrama, ridiculous abuse of stock footage, childish solutions to whatever problems the characters are facing, and a frankly awful art style, it could never be considered good. it's just not horrible.

>>14310750
>You don't have that much self restraint.
it was my first kit so at that point in time I did and was only swayed by Stargazer

I really like Seed. It's one of my favorite Gundams. I highly doubt it's intentional, but I like how as the war ground Kira down he lost personality and was beat down into a barely functional avatar of just ending this shit. And how as he lost personality his mecha reflected that, going from a real war machine to a super robot that was just an extension of his intent.

>>14310198
Destiny left a very, very sour taste in peoples mouthes. SEED is a dumb show but I enjoyed it for that. I think people underrate a lot of SEEDs characters too. Mwu and Rau are both great.

>>14310776

The only real fault I have with Seed is how the Seed thing itself, and whatever back story there is, was just not thought out or shown in the series. That shit was dumb. Also how the idea of a race of eugenically designed super humans was used as an allegory for race. That's some bullshit, considering well..... eugenics and their history.

>>14310790
>Also how the idea of a race of eugenically designed super humans was used as an allegory for race
X-Men basically did the same thing and it suffers the same problem: if there were a group of objectively superior people, the rest of us would demand their extermination or containment. Like, if all the Jews were Magneto, we'd remember the Holocaust as something very, very different.

Personally, I prefer to look at SEED through a class lens. Coordinators are for the creative class what mechanization was for the working class.

>>14310760
Oh I see. Still innocent back then!

>>14310516
It made me buy a Civilian Astray DSSD Custom HG, after looking for it for years since Bandai only made 3 or something.

Does anyone have the comparison for Nicol's death?

>>14310225
>>14310198
>10 eps
>10

Come back after u have seen at least 35 eps , and then let's see if u have the same opinion.

>>14310198
>Hey guys I can't get how you people who have been through 100 episodes of this entirity hate it as I am just done with 10 episodes of it?

There is no difinitive answer as to why SEED is bad. Just look at Kira. For some people, he goes from being a whiny bitch to a badass one man army. To other people, he goes from being a normal teenager to an unfeeling, holier-than-thou robot. Lacus is either awesome because she's always getting shit done, or she's shit because she's a self-insert power fantasy that needs to be called out on her bullshit. The MS designs are either good updates to UC designs, or just childish ripoffs made to look cool when posing.

There's good in SEED as well as bad, both balancing against each other. Watch it for yourself and see where it does right and what it does wrong.

Then watch Destiny at your own risk.

>>14310398
Hahaha

Fuck

>>14310198
Really, it's not even that Destiny is so bad, it's that the shitfest fights *around and about* Destiny are so bad that it sorta ruins the whole thing.
Including SEED, retroactively.
/thread

>>14310198
>Does it get particularly bad later on?
Yes, it gets pretty bad halfway through.

> Is Destiny so awful that it retroactively ruins SEED
Also yes, it goes out of it's way to shit on the few things that SEED's second half itself didn't already ruin.

I started Gundam franchise with Seed/Destiny a few years ago and liked them overally, but didn't understand a lot of stuff there (especially in Destiny, which I still don't get at all).

I rewatched them both not that long ago and... yeah.
Both are pretty bad to the point I was kinda disappointed.
The fact that annoys me the most about Seed is, that it's a new, modern interpretation of 0079 and UC in general, but instead of "down to earth and realistic" portrayal, it was supposed to be a glorious LoTR/Legends of the Galactic Heroes-level big space opera with meaning and philosophy, like making a Newtypes-Normies racism parallel.

Instead, the characters are either bland and boring on the level that even Tomino never was able to achieve or annoying beyond measurement. Art style is atrocious, plot is non-exiting and the only redeeming factors are fantastic soundtrack and good mech designs (at least Gundam ones).

In a way, I think Seed/Destiny are kinda like new Star Trek movies.
Seed/Star Trek is pretty bland and average, but enjoyable, if you are not familiar with any good space opera and/or any better Gundam/Star Trek series.
Destiny/Into Darkness is trying to be big improvement (especially in the plot department), but fails miserably and comes up as one big terrible mess.

Still, I kinda enjoyed Stargazer for it was worth and plan to read Astrey series eventually.

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>>14310342
AND HE lOVED TO PLAY THE PIANO

>>14310198
Destiny, just Destiny.

>>14328326
This

>>14310198
I dunno OP, I never understood either. AGE had more plot holes and nobody seemed to mind

>>14332194
A lot of people mind, are you retarded? AGE is universally considered to be trash on the same tier as Destiny.

>>14310198

Because Destiny also made certain things in SEED stupid as shit too.

In Destiny we see the EA fielding MA as their new great trump of force. While in SEED the message we got was MA is fucking shit MS is the future get the OS working and we have solved all our problems. Now what Destiny did with the MA was not that stupid in it's own right, except that we should have seen the EA fielding new MA by the time of SEED, because they had all of this new technology that came with the Gundam Project but no OS to operate these new weapons. So why would this new technology not be implemented on a MA by the time of SEED. Which would have let the archangels other crew members have be something other then faceless mook nobodies a wasted chance.

In the end outside of Mitsuo Fukuda's bullshit SEED was held back by the fact that it never could let go of it's coordinator wank fest.

>>14310198
It's fucking shit

>>14332194
AGE has the advantage of actually being well animated sometimes, but it's still bad

The phrase train wreck does not do justice to what Seed Destiny is.

>>14332957
>well animated
I'd share a few examples to completely debunk this, but AGE is one of the few Gundam shows that was so terrible that I never bothered to save or keep it.