Okay Feddie Apologist Bootlickers. Let's hear it. How is

>>14242952
If they're armed, they're combatants. I know this is bait but I'll take every chance I can get to make Zeeks look bad.

>Thunderbolt

I see no reason to debate the ravings of zeon fanwank

>>14242952
>says the faction that dropped a fucking colony and still managed to lose the war
E B I N
B
I
N

>>14242952

Zeeks aren't people

/thread

That was easy.

>>14242952

All of Thunderbolt was such a shit show, from a military tactics standpoint.

No training of anti-sniper SOP despite the presence of a enemy sniper force, no clear chain of command beyond the mob and the mob leaders, no proper defensive screening for the main fleet, no adherence to international codes of conduct on war crimes...

>>14242952
nothing wrong with shooting down missiles. if evacuees dont want to get shot down they should properly identify themselves.

>>14242996
Calm your autism, retard

>>14242963
>armed

>>14242963
>Escape pods
>Armed

Did the GM pilot yell 'It's coming right for us!' before firing too?

I always find it funny that Zeeks think that they deserve anything more than complete and utter annihilation. Zeeks should have outright genocided for their crimes against humanity.

>>14243055

War Crimes are defined by their actions, not their targets.

Shooting a Nazi who has surrendered and is unarmed is just as much of a war crime as was that Nazi shooting unarmed civilians.

>>14243043
Turning yourself is a missile is arming yourself

>>14243062
Except Nazis didn't return to commit genocide multiple times. It would have been better if they were extinguished.

>>14243062
No, the targets matter too. If a race demonstrates an unshakable determination to commit genocide, it's fair to stop calling them human. In which case, all rules are void.

>>14243080
>edgyasfuck.jpg

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>>14243080

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>>14243080
>a race
Woah there, who brought in race?

>>14243128
Just an edgy /pol/tard. Ignore the poor thing.

>>14242952
No need to defend it anymore than defending Zeon cutting people's limbs off to make them living CPUs. Because it's all an edgy AU that plays up brutality and inhumane treatment for dramatic effect to underscore the desperation of the conflict.

>>14243101
>zeeks kill 90% of humanity
>it's edgy to expect no one to give a fuck about keeping them alive

>>14243134
>Half of humanity
>90%
Feddie education everyone

>>14243140
>Thinks 3 billion dead instead of 6 billion makes any fucking difference at all

Zeek morality, everyone.

>ITT: Further proof that the Zabis shouldn't have stopped at two colonies
Gihren was right.

>>14243140
>50% in the OWB
>then rest of the war
>then starvation due to Stardust
>then countless attacks until by CCA the planet would literally die if hit with one more asteroid
>lol jk Sleeves still want to fuck you up
>not starting on all the little branches of Zeon that remained in places like Mars
90% is hyperbole but 50% is a lowball estimate for total Zeek crimes.

>>14243145
>>ITT: Further proof that the Zabis shouldn't have stopped at two colonies
>only two colonies and not 3 whole Sides filled with dozens of colonies

And Zeekfags say the Feds can't into maths.

>>14242952
The court martial for this would be amusing short

>The defendant is accused of war crimes in the form of destroying life pods, does he have anything to say in his defense?
>They were zeeks
>Ah, case dismissed. Give that man a medal.

>>14243031
Massively underrated

>>14243153
But that's wrong you dingus because this is Thunderbolt, not the main UC line.

If we're debating UC things up to CCA then you can't argue about the scene OP is talking about because it didn't happen. If we're arguing about that scene then you can't cite events up to CCA because those haven't happened yet in the Thunderbolt timeline.

>>14243145
Guys, we aren't being represented in our government!
>supports autocratic monarchy
Guys, the Earth elite is keeping us down!
>pays taxes so oligarcial nobility can have another extravagant party
Guys, spacenoids are the chosen people!
>gasses colonies

Muh ideals

>>14243229
You just don't understand because your soul is weighed down by gravity. All of that makes sense once you join the glorious zeek cause.

Aren't the Feds in Thunderbolt all recruited from survivors of Side 4? It actually makes sense why they wouldn't be inclined to show the genocidal Zeon hypocrites a shred of mercy.

>>14243242
>being unbound by gravity makes it easier to justify and accept genocide

Guess that explains why every Spacenoid government in UC is some form of batshit insane genocidal dictatorship.

>>14243212
Zeeks are Zeeks. All that means is that you use the 50% number instead of mainline UC's higher count.

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Oh boy, another thread filled with Feddie tears as they try to condemn the 'war crimes' of Zeon while white washing similar acts by the Federation.

I'm sure this thread will go places.

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>>14242952
Idk you dropped the colony on us you spacenoid vermin.

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>>14243899
>"war crimes"
Nice quotes, what're they for? Are you going to say that what Zeon did wasn't criminal? Are you going to tell us that the Federation did anything on the same scale? I can't wait sempai

>>14243899
By all means, provide evidence of the feds killing billions of people.

I'll wait.

Is it true that Thunderbolt is in-universe Zeon apologist propaganda?

>>14243936
Excuse me I forgot, SEVERAL colonies were dropped on us.

>>14243955
inb4 muh crossfire meme, I want to see some evidence for OYW crimes.

>>14243128
>implying superior newtypes are a member of the same race as oldtypes

>>14243967
>I want to see some evidence
Look at fucking Australia.

>>14243952

He's basically a Nazi advocate, leave him be.

>>14242952
Oh it is a war crime, but I don't think anybody cared after the colony drops and nuclear war wiped out half of humanity. I mean look at M'Queve. He tried to nuke Odessa after the Antarctic Treaty was signed. You didn't see him punished. Nobody really cared.

>>14243972
I meant done by the Federation

>>14243989
Ah, my bad then.

>>14243989
>implying it wasn't an inside job
>implying the federation wasn't a-ok with colony drops

Wake up sheeple how else do you explain everything in the OYW except that a secret cabal of zeeks and feddies were purposefully trying to depopulate earth and unite everyone against newtype idealists.

>>14244076
Except they made Amuro Ray a hero.

So...yeah good work with that.

>>14244083
by the time of F91 (which is what, UC120~?) No one even knows what newtypes are anymore, and eventually they seem to die off.

Seems like it worked I guess?

>>14244091
That or everyone is by that point, so its not special except when a main character shows up.

>>14244076
Why bother? There was no evidence of evolution in space until the OYW. Then both sides employed cyber-Newtypes and psycoframe to accomplish their goals. Sounds dumb to me.

Not to mention almost all the people killed in the OYW were actually Spacenoids.

>Blow up Australia
>Gas other spacenoids
>HEY DON'T DO WAR CRIMES AND BLOW UP OUR SHIPS AS WE TRY TO BLOW THEM UP OURSELVES

>>14243062
>Shooting a Nazi who has surrendered and is unarmed is just as much of a war crime as was that Nazi shooting unarmed civilians.

Not when the people who are fighting the Nazis win the war and now are the most powerful force in the world.

>>14243936
>Ozzie thinking his hellhole of a country matters outside of bantz, dropbears and dingo memes

Nah, I'm just kidding.

>>14244111
>it's not a war crime if you win

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>>14244107
>blowing up straya
>a crime

>>14244115
I know you're being sarcastic but that's actually what happens.

>>14244115

Because it's not. Vae victis has never stopped being a reality in human history.

Do you think Sherman would've gotten away with it if the north lost? Or that Japan would ever have to apologize for Nanking if they won WW2?

>>14244115
Yeah.

>>14244121
What is it about Sherman's March that can be considered "war crime" worthy?

>>14244145
The literal destruction of any major city in his path. It can be argued that he single handedly broke the South's economy at the time in conjunction with the emancipation proclamation not saying they didn't deserve it tho

>>14244145

In consideration with things that happened in WW1 or 2, it's not. But it was the first major instance of Total War being enacted by a general in a war, and that struck a lot of people.

As Sherman himself said, the best outcome for a war is for it to be brutal, but quick and over with because drawing it out is far more horrific. "War is hell. Its glory is all moonshine."

>>14242952
Kids probably thought they were missiles.

>>14242952
>Thunderbolt

>>14243132
>Because it's all an edgy AU that plays up brutality and inhumane treatment for dramatic effect to underscore the desperation of the conflict.

This.

I mean, original Gundam has everyone be too chill for a conflict that supposedly killed half the humanity - which is a ridiculously overinflated number by the way, even taking colony gassings and drops into consideration. But Thunderbolt goes way too far in the other direction. Feels like a fanfic written by a 14 year old sometimes.

Who gives a shit? The average Zeek is so ignorant that it does know what lightning or Hitler are.

>>14244632
>doesn't know
Damn typos.

>>14244118
They may be shitposter but then they were our shitposters dammit .

>>14242952
Your sense of truth is crippled, OP

>>14242952
>How is this NOT a war crime?

Well it is,just like having crippled made to fight at frontlines and then delibrately cutting limbs off for their experiment in vein of Unit 731.

As for the mental gymnastics, Io Flemming likes removing zeeks from the premises.

>>14243899
People like you are the reason why federation should have committed more warcrime than Zeon so that the master race mentality to exterminate other species could have met it's match.

But then It can't be helped , until the day when people like you will get to taste their own medicine after realizing that human body is not fit for space, and their need for organ for transplant will be barred, equipment needed for exercise shall be taken away so you can see the effect of muscle atrophy,all after being given a residence in a space colony of your wet dreams.

Only then this racial supremacists spouting their gravity free soul can see the wrongdoing and crimes against their body itself , after which you will bow down and cry for help, and I will whisper - No.

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>>14244803
Io's motto was kill a zeek, get a peek.

The captain didn't really agree with that, but it's not like she would actually say no.

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>>14244817

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>>14243952
It's rather simple, when the war began, Zeon was at a massive disadvantage in both size and resources due to every other Side (Minus Side 6) siding with the Federation, along with the obvious fact the Federation controlled Earth and had at least one space base, Luna II. So with the war inevitably going to break out, the Federation will have massive amount of resources, colonies located near Side 3 to use as rally points or bases of operation to launch attacks, and worst of all, millions, if not billions of people to join the war effort. So the only logical option is to launch an attack to destroy the Federation aligned Sides, which rob them of all those things. Now the Feddies are going to cry;

>'They just had to destroy the Federation Garrisons and leave the colonists alone!'
Terrible idea. That's like just chopping off the top of a weed, if you don't deal with the roots, it'll grow back. And in this case, the Federation would come back and dig in further to keep from having their garrisons destroyed again. Another big point the Feddies like to try and make is;

> 'Why couldn't Zeon just occupy the other Sides?'
This would be a logistical nightmare, because how many colonists live in a single colony, now think of how many live on a Side, now expand that to multiple Sides. Zeon would not have the man power to occupy every single colony of the sides they attacked, and even if they could, it would take away from the forces necessary to fight the Federation fleets that were still in play. Even with mobile suits, the Feddie Fleets are no sloughs. The other idea the best and brightest of the Feddies suggested is;

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>'why not just destroy the space dock? And put a Musai around it, Colonies are just giant bottles in space!'
This shows no understanding for how a colony works. To think there is only one door to get in and out would be a horrible design flaw. There are going to be shipping and secondary space docks along with the countless number of maintenance hatches and entrances (Bernie and Al used one of these to infiltrate the Secret Feddie base in 0080) So good luck having a small occupation force consistently guard every entrance to a colony who's population is at least several, if not 10+ million. 'Automated systems"? Like those were never easily evaded or disabled. Plus even if you have occupying forces, that doesn't mean they will be able to stop people sneaking to and from. Hell, look at the Zanscare Empire and the fact their HOME COLONY was infiltrated multiple times by the league militaire, including one operation where they managed to take the head of state hostage. And that was their home colony, what makes you think trying to occupy one under threat of force will work better? But let's face it, if there's one thing shown in Gundam consistently, it's piss easy to infiltrate a colony without anyone knowing.

Another tidbit is that people don't like to be occupied. Zeon had 20 years to try and persuade the other Sides to declare independence, but only Side 6 followed. That means every other Side followed the Federation, so what's going to happen when your enemy comes and starts occupying you? You're going to find every way to resist them. And even if Zeon came in announcing they were there to liberate them, it wouldn't mater.

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Look at F91 where the Crossbone Vanguard invade the Frontier Colony and make sure to avoid civilians while announcing they were there to help people. And this was while the Federation garrison had no regard for civilians and you say at least some Federation soldiers try to use children as human shields. Did all the citizens of Frontier open the Vanguard with open arms? Nope, some of them went to form a resistance. Now if a single colony can have that happen against a force that was unknown and came saying they were only there to help. Imagine the reaction of people if their enemy invaded and occupied their land.


So yes, it was hard choice to make in destroying the enemy aligned Sides, but you also need to realize that even in October, well after the One Week Battle, Zeon only had a 30th of the resources of the Federation. Imagine what that gap was before the war, I couldn't even figure to calculate it.


So, after eliminating the enemy alligned Sides and removing any immediate threat to side 3. There needed to be an attack on the heart of the Federation, Jaburo. Zeon didn't know the exact location of the base and since it was deep underground, even if they decided to start bombing the area it wouldn't affect the base. So they decided to use a giant kinetic weapon to destroy Jaburo, a colony. You take out Jaburo, you not only crush the brain and heart of the Federation, you destroy any morale it has left and secure a swift victory through shock and awe. The problem of course was the Federation Fleets knew of the operation and did everything in their power to stop it. This ended with the Feddies redirecting the colony and causing it to break up, with the largest chunk hitting Australia. Should Zeon have tried again immediately afterward? Probably, did they? No. The Loum colony drop operation was false information sent to lure the Federation Fleets into a decisive battle.

>>14245108
so basically zeon was justified in gassing the sides and their civilian populations because they couldn't win their war of "independence" otherwise?

Or they could just not rebel in the first place and things would have turned out better for literally goddamn everyone.

Keep in mind space colonies were all basically self-sustaining utopias prior to the OYW, and thia is an objective fact.

>>14245121
So let me get this straight. Genocide is ++good as long as you would lose the fight if you didn't commit genocide?

This is why people cheer when feddies blow up zeek escape pods.

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>>14243967
>>14243955
>OYW
This is something interesting to look at my impartial viewers, the Feddie Apologists are trying to keep the scope of the debate to the One Year War because they know they lose their precieved moral high ground the moment you look the Titans, a Federation task force, gassing, and using a solar ray on multiple colonies and while also attempting a colony drop of their own. The apologists will inevitably fall back on numbers, meaning you have to kill so many for it to matter, and creating a logical pretzel to claim the Titans were not a part of the Federation, absurd because of how they came out of the Federation. That's like claiming the Marines aren't part of the US Military. But that's pretty typical of people wanting to claim they have the moral high ground in a fictional series, but not as bad as people who assume you hold the same ideas in real life.

>>14245123
Can't make the mother of all omelets without breaking some eggs anon. The other Sides had ample time to come around, but they sided with the Federation. It couldn't be helped.

>>14245130
>It couldn't be helped.
This is some doublethink levels of denying reality going on here.

>>14245130
>two rights make a wrong meme
>Titans are real Feds and not Jovian Jews meme

>>14245130
the titans were dicks but they gassed what, 2 colonies successfully? and poked holes in a few more? that's like saying "sure the Nazis were bad, but man who cares because the US really fucked up some Iraqis!" this aside from the fact that the titans were an attempt by some within the federation to establish a military dictatorship with long term jovian goals

also
>couldn't be helped
?
they were independent in everything but federal recognition. they had enough food because colonies are self sufficient by design. they're at L2 and thus have the easiest time getting to jupiter to get energy of all the sides (except maybe 6? 5? whichever one is at L1), as well as having close access to lunar resources. literally ALL they had to do was wait and bide their time.

>>14245130
That's like blaming the Union for what the Confederates did after the Union won the civil war.

And Zeon sided with the Titans anyways so your entire rant loses its point.

>>14245125
>>14245132
>>14245129
>>14245135
>>14245152
>>14245174
>Keep in mind space colonies were all basically self-sustaining utopias prior to the OYW, and thia is an objective fact.
But that's not the case at all, especially if the populations of the colonies continue to increase, since there is only a certain amount of resources to go around at any given time. It's why you had Sides pursue different things to keep them competitive for trade. (I.E. Side 6 became proficient with technology.) You also seem to forget that the colonies were built so the Earth's elites could eject as many of the poor and undesirables from earth as possible. Just look at how quickly the population shifted from Earth to the colonies, and it wasn't because space was the place to live. So you attempt to frame the colonies as self sustaining utopias is a farce. You want to find a way to win the war against those numbers? Remember you're trying to win the war, so you can't just run away and go 'we just need more time' or surrender. I'm all ears if you got a better plan. When you're fighting against a nation that out numbers you by billions and controls every other known region. As you can see, you're just trying to dismiss the acts of the Federation committing the same actions you condemn by saying 'It wasn't as many' For all this talk of war crimes, I find it funny how you're going 'well, it wasn't as bad, so we should ignore it' Life doesn't work like that. Plus trying to push the 'oh they weren't REAL Feddies' Just ignore all the evidence that supports they were a group within the Federation. You seem to ignore the fact that the Federation put an embargo on Side 3 immediately after they declared independence and then started a massive military build up with the Year 60 Armament Reinforcement Plan, and later the Year 70 Armament Reinforcement Plan. That analogy makes no sense, and Axis Zeon played both sides during the Gryps Conflict.

>It's a Black_Knight defends Zeon war crimes episode

Well OP, you got your wish and triggered our resident Nazi. All we need now is for Black_Knight to defend Gihren's 'cull the population to make way for the Superior Race' plan and the thread will be complete.

Oh yeah, and for him to say that machine translations are PURE, TRUE and UNBIASED and superior to people who actually speak Japanese.

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ZEONWANK! ZEONWANK! THE FEDERATON ARE THE GOOD GUYS AND NEVER DO ANYTHING WRONG

>>14242952
What escape pods? I only see improvised kamikaze suicide missiles

Nice try Zeek scum

>>14245190
Well at least the federation didn't lose every single war they fought.

>>14245190
>FEDWANK! FEDWANK! THE ZEON ARE THE GOOD GUYS AND NEVER DO ANYTHING WRONG

>>14245186
Is this what a mind unfettered by gravity looks like?

I expect it to start muttering ftagn ftagn at any point now.

>>14245207
>>14245188
You sound upset and highly biased since you no longer have anything of merit to say. Plus, I just like to speed up the reply process and make you digest everything as opposed to just sticking with your own little post.

>>14245205
No, Zeon are bad but /m/ are gigantic feddiewankers when the Federation have always been bad guys. Zeon and most of the Gundam villains besides Char just want what the Federation already has: An elite club that controls the Earth sphere and gets to decide who gets to live on Earth and who doesn't.

>>14245204
Except for the ones they had civilians win the war in their place?

>>14245186
nice nice Black_Knight has now gone to one paragraph all posters mode so his incoherent ramblings are even more in character. next up is calling someone who points out that zeon was clearly in the wrong a dismissive nickname and then ceasing to respond to the thread because he pissed himself in anger

>>14245186
But they don't need to win any war in thw first place, you dense nigger. There was nothing to be gained.

>>14245223
>digest everything
lol no.

Once you start shifting into gibbering incomprehensibility it's time to just point and laugh at our resident retard namefag.

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>>14245174
>>14245152

Gentle reminder that the Titans were an elaborate false flag by a closet Zeonist.

>>14245227
>when the Federation have always been bad guys
Oh yeah man remember all those BAD THINGS they did in 0079? Like, uh.

Those guys that got drunk in Amuro's mom's house. That was just plain rude.

>An elite club that controls the Earth sphere and gets to decide who gets to live on Earth and who doesn't.
Funny, the only time I remember people being FORCED to move to space colonies was in CCA. By a certain Neo Zeon.

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>>14245235
>>14245238
Stop trying to weasel out and find me a battle plan that would give Zeon just as much success in reducing the Federation's numbers that doesn't use anything you would condemn. If you can't, just say so. Although the fact that you're just going to resort to name calling now to ignore the substantive part of the debate is standard fair. Keep on shitposting, it's what Feddie /m/orons do best.

>>14245258
Forgot my trip

>>14245190
Too late, Zeon already killed all the children and used their day care as a chemical dirty bomb.

>>14245108
>>14245112
>>14245121
That doesn't make any of what Zeon did not a war crime you shitstick. They had the "hard choice" between enforcing their corrupt autocratic racist personality-worshipping dictatorship on the planet and NOT killing half of humankind, guess which one they chose. Exactly, they chose to kill civilians. No matter how you look at it, that's what they did. And don't try to turn this back on the Federation because I'm not a Feddie. It isn't a matter of who killed more or less, it's just a simple fact that Zeon committed the most atrocious war crimes and genocide under the guise of a war for independence. However, I will note that the Titans (who were already planning to coup the Federation and were controlled by Jovians) arose from anti-Zeon sentiment because people were THAT afraid of letting another OYW happen. In other words, they spawned sue to Zeon's actions. Obviously they were evil too but the Federation government split from them. Not every Feddie is a Titan but every Zeek is a Zeek.

>>14245130
>Can't make the mother of all omelets without breaking some eggs anon. The other Sides had ample time to come around, but they sided with the Federation. It couldn't be helped.
Yeah, your war of "independence" is surly worth the life of every other man, woman and child that was alive at the time. Can't wait to taste that "SEIG ZEON, no, HEIL ZEON spacenoid master race" omelet with a dash of "Feddie elites were evil so they should be replaced by Zeon nobility, that will be much better" and some "no really, I want my autocratic government to represent me better than the Federation parliament did" on the side. That's what half of humanity died for.

>>14245258
Here's a battle plan that your insipid little mind can probably wrap itself around which gives a better outcome for literally everyone in the solar system: Surrender.

>>14245190
He got a point you know?

>>14245245
The Federation already did all the bad things a long time ago, the colonies exist because the federation realized the Earth couldn't sustain the human population forever and they created them to remove lower class people from Earth and keep Earth around long as possible for a chosen elite, which is literally what Zeon wants, just replacing the Federation elite with themselves. In Victory they talk about "illegal immigrants" a lot, which are basically people who live on Earth when they don't have the Federation's permission to, whether they were born there or came from space or whatever.

If you don't know the backstory you shouldn't talk Gundam.

>>14242996
You forget it was during the one year war, they made due with what they had.

>>14245258
okay, here's a plan for you
they don't go to war
they don't gas half the colonies
they just live at L2 with their mobile suits and their space nazi aristocrats and try to maintain diplomatic contact with the federation so they can avoid misunderstandings that would lead to war. maybe one day they could even resume trade!

hell they could probably have even started a limited war on the moon or at another side without facing the full might of the federation since, as you so CLEARLY point out, the feds shoved all the undesirables up there so if side 4 or 6 gets bullied by zeon fleets who cares, as long as earth isn't getting fucked up? since that's all the feds care about right?

man they could have even built up their nuclear arsenal or a giant mass driver at L2 to threaten as a deterrent against war!

i swear black knight if you were in charge of the us or ussr during the cold war we'd all have died in a nuclear holocaust. just because there's a military buildup

>>14245296
>non-animated
>canon
Pick one.

>>14245374
>(cont)

doesn't mean there has to be all out war. sure, sometimes in history you have arms races or buildups lead to war - but a lot of the time you don't!

even assuming that the evil feddies would have one day attacked zeon, why not just fight a defensive war, in space, and then bombard jaburo with above deterrent mass drivers or whatever? why go to the trouble to invade earth in a war of conquest if you only want independence?

>>14245375
No. Side materials are there for a reason. There's nothing that says animation makes canon anyway.

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>>14242952
Winning the war.

>>14242952
In war it's kill or to be killed. Only idiots abide to the rules.

>>14245384
Not him but they couldn't fight a defensive war. The joke about Zeon losing despite committing so many war crimes isn't just because they're incompetent, it's because the Federation actually had horrifically greater strength than Zeon did. Zeon still isn't in the right but it was a Pearl Harbor move to help equalize strength.

>>14245404
That's not true though. Rules exist so that you don't ruin the Earth Sphere for the rest of time. Life exists after the war and you will have to answer for what you did.

>>14245405
If the best plan you can come up with has you killing half of humanity as your step 1, and that only gives you a small chance of ultimate victory, then you don't go to war. Willingly choosing to enter that kind of fight is beyond insanity.

>>14245269
>>14245280
>>14245293
>>14245374
Show's who incompetent the Feddies are, they want to make a shield out of child corpses. The problem here is you make it sound like war wasn't inevitable at the point things were in 0078. Do you expect a nation that suffered under hardship for the past 20 years to just roll over or do everything they can to survive? Also, you make it sound like they didn't try other means of resources through the rule of law or appealing to the other Sides. Something they were trying for 20 years. That's a long time to be at it before war becomes inevitable. Cry about genocide and war crimes all you want, but the fact of the matter is the only reason Zeon even had a chance to win the war, was because of their actions during the One Week Battle. The Federation would have massacred Side 3 if Zeon didn't neutralize the Federation aligned Sides. And as I listed above, they didn't have any options to not destroy the colonies due to the size of their forces and logistics.I also find it amusing you claim not to be Feddie but then go full apologist for the Titans. Yes, pretend they were controlled by Jovians and think they had a coup planned when they increased their influence through strong arming the weak willed Federation parliament. Even better is you blame Zeon for the rise of the Titans thinking it's Zeon's fault by proxy for the fact the Federation gasses and lasered Colonies too. Using your logic, it was the Federation's fault Zeon destroyed all those Sides because of their actions of not recognizing and trying to suppress Side 3. Nice job there. Once again, you can't say how Zeon could do so well without doing what they did. As for the idea of a MAD arm's race is that they don't get used because both sides get destroyed. There wasn't a weapon race like that in UC. Just more and more conventional forces. You also fail to realize there were skirmishes already breaking out. Or think the Federation would defend a Side under attack.

>>14245445
What fucking hardships you autistic fuckwit?

>>14245108
>>14245112
>>14245121
>It's too much trouble to occupy the Sides so let's just kill everyone instead.

It's like you don't even understand how inhuman this is. Not even the actual real Nazis wre this evil. Not even Imperial Japan, which actually did pay lip service to the 'Liberating the Asian Colonies' propaganda, was this evil. Hell I don't think even ISIS is this evil (they tend to limit their genociding to religious minorities they don't like).

I mean why bother trying to recruit quislings or collaborators from among the colonial population like every colonial power since the dawn of history has done? Nah, that's too much work. How about nuking or gassing a single colony (preferably the Side Capital as that's most likely to be where most of the pro-Federation leaders will be concentrated) as an example to the rest of the Side? Nope, that won't satisfy Gihren's murderboner. Let's just jump immediately to killing every man, woman and child in that Side!

But then what else would you expect from someone who has such a hard-on for Space Hitler that he will defend his plan to start culling the population to create the Superio Spacenoid Race.

>>14243936

This is because you shitposted on Zeonchan until it crashed.

>>14245384
>>14245432
>>14245432
>>14245465
Because it would be a war Zeon would lose even if it was defensive since you're sorely under estimating the sheer numbers the Federation fielded. The one of the two man factors for why Zeon lost the Battle of A Baoa Qu was that the Federation fielded overwhelming force, even when half their forces were destroyed by the Solar Ray. If they could zerg rush even at the end of the war, imagine what they could do at the start? Double so if they still had access to all the Sides that remained allied with them because they could just station their fleets there and keep sending more and more attacks at Side 3. Also, outside of the colony drop, Orbital Kinetic weaponry wasn't really touched upon in UC. Although the problem there would be even being able to set up a system because the Federation would control the entire space. Good thing you aren't a leader since under your philosophy, smaller nations would just get steamrolled by larger ones. Being second rate citizens since they were forced to immigrate to space. The economic embargo, isolated from the rest of the Earth Sphere after they declared independence, none of the other Sides minus Side 6 decide to follow the ideals of Spacenoid actualization. Those sorts of hardships. So you're just going to ignore the fact that Zeon had been trying for 20 years and wasn't making any progress, or think that that the other sides would magically join Side 3 if only Zeon occupied them for a little while? That's just you being naive. Although your stupidity is up there too in thinking destroying the capital colony of the side wouldn't cause a massive uptick in resistance since people would rather die on their feet, than live of their knees. If that's the case, Zeon just speed up the process that would have inevitably been the outcome.

>>14245486
>Being second rate citizens since they were forced to immigrate to space. The economic embargo, isolated from the rest of the Earth Sphere after they declared independence, none of the other Sides minus Side 6 decide to follow the ideals of Spacenoid actualization

So no actual hardships, just their pride was hurt since everyone thought they were psychotic personality cultists and didn't want any part of them.

It actually worries me that you're not rusing and you really are this crazy.

Spacenoids are literally subhuman mutants.
Newtypes should be gassed.

>>14244103
Not only that but after the first actual war that had zeon dropping colonies you could actually make a point about there being a conspiracy in the future engagements since AE fields most of the mobile suits for every side

>>14245445
>Also, you make it sound like they didn't try other means of resources through the rule of law or appealing to the other Sides. Something they were trying for 20 years.

>we want to be independent but also have 100% trade rights with everyone we broke away from or we'll kill half the human population
They were self-sufficient and had Helium-3 coming in just fine.

Anyone got that pic that shows a bunch of posts showing just how fucking well Zeon actually was before the war? I think the upper part of it has a Gato screaming about indepence

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>>14245509
>>14245537
>>14245542
Based on your logic, am I right to assume you believe that black people in South Africa only hated apartheid because it hurt their pride? Because being treated like a second class citizen is a matter of pride to you. Self-sufficient doesn't reflect quality of life. Communist states were considered self sufficient, but their quality of life were awful. Plus you make it sound like it's wrong for a colony to break away from control of its original country, but seek to maintain friendly relations. That went out the window when he Federation immediately started the embargo and a massive military build up against Side 3. Considering I've already refuted the major parts of it. The best the opposition can do is just go 'genocide is wrong!' and not offer any tangible strategy for reducing the Federation's manpower and resources at a similar rate without reducing the battle strength of Zeon's forces in a similar time frame. Still waiting oh great tacticians. But here, have this.

>>14245570
>The best the opposition can do is just go 'genocide is wrong!'

The scary part is that this isn't enough for you.

>>14245570
>feddie leaders
Didn't Haman have an agreement or something to let the pollies go while all the citisens in Dublin were left to die?
I dunno, I haven't seen ZZ yet.

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>>14245570
What sort of second class citzen lives in a fucking castle? I have never seen you go against pic related, what are your arguments you nigger?

>>14245577
>>14245578
>>14245588
But you can't come up with a reasonable alternative strategy. Which is all I asked for. Your only argument is just an appeal to emotion. Are you going to claim the Dublin colony drop wasn't to squash the Federation leadership before they cut a deal with Haman to save their own skin while sacrificing millions of their own citizens in the process and they don't even send any of their military to try and evacuate the city or hold off the Neo-Zeon forces? That good old, noble Federation does it again. Already up to the 4 post in this thread alone. Colonies weren't paradise, lead up to the war. Why the destruction of enemy aligned Sides and the Colony drop was necessary. Want me to work in why the Earth Invasion was necessary or do you want to just keep being completely self aware in using racial slurs while you claim I'm from /pol/? Also...
>Feddie fags need to post an image of a copy pasta because they don't have anything else to post.
The Federation is exhausted.

>>14245570
>diverted by feds

I'm going to shoot you in the head. However, you jump to the side and I can only shoot your back. Your spine is hit and you are paralyzed from the waist down. Whose fault is it that you are paralyzed?

>>14245612
Why did you lump me with them? I asked you to answer pic related >>14245588 , there was no appeal to emotion there and its funny you excuse the pasta because you have literally no argument agaisnt it except tryign to ridicule it

>>14245618
>Why did you lump me with them?
Because Black_Knight can't tell the difference between anons and considers them one entity unless you either namefag or tripfag

>>14245614
>>14245618
The logical option would be to shoot you first, and then gas your family 3 seconds later to make sure they can't retaliate. You should read up on the thread then to see why things weren't all sun shine and rainbows in the colonies. How the Federation retaliated against Side 3 after they declared independence, and why Zeon needed to employ the tactics they did for the One Week Battle. If you want to go 'nu huh', I can't stop you, but it doesn't change the fact I brought up counter points to a copy pasta image that Feddie apologists on /m/ treat as gospel and don't need to resort to calling people 'niggers' to do it. Which is ironic since you like to accuse me that I'm from /pol/ or have a /pol/ mindset just because of my opinion on a fictional series.

>>14245612
You are literally retarded. Possibly a side effect of being free of gravity. You know how small forces killed big forces irl? By covert operations. Killing leaders, inciting rebellions, dumping propaganda.

If your main problem is with the leaders of the earth federation, then target them. Keep targetting them until you get leaders more amenable to your goals.

But zeon's problem wasn't the leaders of the earth federation, it was with humanity as a whole who more or less pointed and laughed at their insanity. So genocide it was.

>>14245633
>You should read up on the thread then to see why things weren't all sun shine and rainbows in the colonies

There has been no evidence of bad living conditions. At all. The worst someone (you) has said is that self-sufficiency isn't wealth. Provide any evidence that the colonies were a bad place to live and we'll talk.

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>>14245633
>How the Federation retaliated against Side 3
By cutting the benefits they would only receive if they were part of the fucking federation? How is the federation wrong? The only argument you made was easily shot down by itself, why would the fucking federation allow Zeon to create their military, their goddamn Mobile Suits right in front of them if they had access to the colony? How would the Sides retaliate when they were even part of the fucking war? They were civillains unafilliated with anyone? What is your excuse for this? Seriously answer me this without beinga evasive fuckwit

>>14245633
That's not the question I asked, retard. I know disregard for human life comes naturally to you but I'm being serious here, whose fault would that paralyzation be?

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>>14245633

>>14245633
Are you seriously saying the federation should continue giving them food for free when they told the federation to go fuck itself? Do you know of any country in the world that declared indepence and continued to receive goods from the mainland?

>>14245633
>read up on the thread
>thread just contains unsubstantiated statements and "look it up elsewhere"

>>14245612
>you can't come up with a reasonable alternative
>several people suggested attempting to maintain status quo, defensive posturing, starting a limited war
>NUH UH NOT WHAT I ASKED FOR I SAID THEY HAD TO WIN THE WAR AND DO OTHER STUFF AND REEEEEEEEEEE

i guess you've just given up on your ideals and are just shitposting for the sake of shitposting now huh?

>>14245655
>given up on your ideals
It's the zeek way.

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>>14244803
>Io Flemming likes removing zeeks from the premises.
Except that wasn't Io shooting the lifepods. It was someone in a GM Cannon.

>>14245486
>So you're just going to ignore the fact that Zeon had been trying for 20 years and wasn't making any progress, or think that that the other sides would magically join Side 3 if only Zeon occupied them for a little while?

People tend to change their minds when an enemy fleet and troops show up on their doorstep.

>That's just you being naive.
>knows nothing about history
>has the gall to call other people naive.

Even the American occupation of Iraq, noted as one if the most incompetent occupations in history, was able to eventually build up a puppet government. How? Again by doing what colonial powers have done throughout history; divide and conquer by elevating those disenfranchised by the previous regime; or simply by just buying people off. Yet somehow the Superior Spacenoid Man didn't think to use some of their suitcases of gold to do this. For fucks sake, fucking Israel is able to build up a network of collaborators and informants in in Hamas, yet you're telling me Zeon couldn't find a. Couple of guys out off apopulation of millions to buy off? Or maybe they were just cheap. That's a lark, Zeon committed genocide not because they had no choice but because they were lazy, stupid and cheap.

>Although your stupidity is up there too in thinking destroying the capital colony of the side wouldn't cause a massive uptick in resistance since people would rather die on their feet, than live of their knees.

You're the one being stupid and naive, my Nazi friend. History is full of cases where people have accepted occupation, escpecially if the occupiers are replacing an unpopular regime (which Zeonfags love to claim the Federation was among the colonies). Why? Because while people don't like being occupied, they like living a whole lot more, so if you give them a chance to live their daily lives relatively unhindered, most of them will take it. That is, unless you act like total assholes like Zeon did. Again, Imperial Japan was literally better at this.

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>it's another "Argue with Black_Knight" thread

>hey there is a Side that has declared independence and they have a militia
>that means there could be militarization and we'd have no way to keep it in check to safeguard other colonies and ourselves
>it's probably a good idea to build up some forces and show Zeon that they shouldn't get any ideas

>looks like they turned their militia into a full military, we should conduct a naval review to make sure they get the idea

>oh fuck that crazier guy Zabi took over and vastly expanded the military, we should probably do the same

THE FEDERATION WAS PLANNING ON WIPING OUT SIDE 3 JUST BECAUSE THEY WERE INDEPENDENT, IT WAS ALL IN SELF DEFENSE

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How much you guys wanna bet that BK is doing some olympic level mental gymnastics to try and counter our arguments? Or will outright ignore them to try and argue some other point that exists only in his head

>>14245721
remember that time he said side 5's destruction was the federation's doing and it was because the zeon fleet shot all of the colonies trying to chase down enemies?

>>14245635
>>14245642
>>14245643
>>14245645
>>14245655
Are you going to show me a precedent in history where your ideas actually work in comparison to the size of Side 3 verses the Federation? I'm not even getting into the the whole blow back of assassination. Also the only way to make someone more amenable to your goals is to have a threat of force, something Side 3 wasn't in a position to do. I'd counter point there is no evidence that living conditions weren't prosperous either. The colonies we usually saw had major military installations. Plus, we never saw daily life in Side 3 to make a judgement there. So instead of trying to maintain respectful relations, the Federation slaps Side 3 with an embargo and gets all the other Sides to agree to it and then starts a massive military build up where they immediately do a navel review to show off. You're also implying that the Sides only take from Earth, when it's the exact opposite and it's the materials produced in the colonies that are then transported to Earth. It would be mine because I shouldn't have turned my back to you and taken a better course of action to either disarm or evade your shots. Refer to previous post. So are you going to explain how Zeon would win the war without destroying the Feddie aligned Sides or list how an occupation would be practical? I'm all ears. As for the reasons given. Military build up made a status quo impossible to maintain, defensive battle would lead to defeat because of the Federation's overwhelming number, a limited war would immediately turn into a full blown war because the Federation would send all their forces to defend an allied side. But please, keep shitposting if you can't offer something substantive.

>>14245669
>>14245699
>>14245737
Then the moment the enemy turns their back they start plotting against them. Oh yes the Iraqi government, one that many Iraqis themselves didn't consider to be legitimate, but had to tolerate it because they were under the gun of the US Military. Plus the obvious oversight here is Zeon would need to create at least a hundred provisional governments, one for each colony and then find people who were sympathetic to them. And then keep a large enough military presence to keep the citizens from revolting. Please refer to my previous post in how that would be an impractical allocation of manpower when the Federation's fleets were still lurking about and Jaburo's war machine was in full swing. You also ignore the fact while at face value, the citizens will go along with the occupation, they're going to do everything to undermine it. All that fun stuff of Intel gathering for the Federation, sabotage and just outright acts of terrorism. I again point to the limited manpower and resources at Zeon's disposal as to why that's impractical. Also, just because you don't like your current rulers, doesn't mean you aren't going to defend your country. Say Russia decides to level Washington DC tomorrow, Republicans might not like Obama, but a lot of them are going to rally to him and the US military to fight the Russians after the attack.
>Start a massive military build up immediately after Side 3 declares independence
>Start another massive military build up 10 years later when Side 3's only military commissioned ship at the time was a transporter.
>HEY WHY ARE THEY STARTING TO BUILD THEIR OWN WEAPONS?
I see we've entered the revisionist phase of the conversation. Good job ignoring the word 'crossfire'. I'm still waiting for a good alternative military strategy to neutralize the Federation's forces as efficiently as destroying the enemy Sides that won't end in Side 3 being destroyed.

>>14245509

I don't see why anyone bothers. I enjoy being a zeekfag so much more when BK isn't around.

Fucking Gihren apologists.

>>14245751
by you own admission only "film" is cannon

what gundam film shows anything bad in side 3 due to the embargo? none? so you've just made it up despite colonies having farming pods by design that provide enough food, so at the very least no one will starve to death.

so which is it black knight? its it your headcannon "muh embargo hurt the poor zeekies :^(" or is it "only film is cannon"?

because if the embargo didn't do anything to side 3 except make clear the federation disliked zeon's actions, that's a hell of a reason to start a massive military buildup and eventually massacre 1/2 of humanity's population

>>14245757
>I see we've entered the revisionist phase of the conversation.
says the guy who accepts MS igloo's revisionist version of loum and uses leaps of logic to arrive at his own conclusion

if it was never stated, it never happened, it's as simple as that.

>>14245578

Serious answer, I don't actually think so, the politicians just reserved all the flights out and laughed at the Irish stuck behind.

Feddies deserved to fall as much as Zeon did. Imagine if Bright had just become emperor or something, how much shit would have been avoided by having an actual humane, competent individual leading humanity.

>>14245751
>You're also implying that the Sides only take from Earth, when it's the exact opposite and it's the materials produced in the colonies that are then transported to Earth
If that is the case why does Zeon needed Earth to send them goods? Aren't they self-sufficient? Also the military build up began with zeon or did you forget about the whole mobile suits being made and fielded out as soon as possible? Where the hell are you even getting that the federation started they military build up soon? They just stopping their shipments to a independent country that closed itself

>>14245758
>Fucking Gihren apologists.
Casval please

>>14245773
>Imagine if Bright had just become emperor or something, how much shit would have been avoided by having an actual humane, competent individual leading humanity.

>Bright
>Competent
>Slaps Amuro because he doesn't know how to lead properly

>>14245774
>Also the military build up began with zeon or did you forget about the whole mobile suits being made and fielded out as soon as possible?
that didn't happen until 15 years after side 3 became independent, you do know that mobile suits are still supposed to be very recent inventions in the OYW right?

>Where the hell are you even getting that the federation started they military build up soon?
he's talking about the 0060s and 0070s feddy armament reinforcement plans which comes from databooks that he conveniently rejects as invalid when you start talking about the battle of loum

>>14245782

He had style and aristocracy. Only plebs drop colonies, patricians drop asteroids.

>>14245786
>implying amuro didn't need to be slapped even harder

>>14245786

Amuro needed slapping almost as much as you do.

Why did he stop slapping in ZZ, by the way? Judau definitely needed correction, and Beecha and Mondo should have been pimphanded into a Kamille-coma.

>>14245795
The bigger question is why didn't Bright slap Banagher.

>>14245786
he gets better at least
eventually
okay fine he goes from "slapping the shit out of amuro" to "slapping the shit out of kamille" to "oh fuck it judau do whatever" to "i'm the titans now" to irrelevant.

at least he was a decent guy

>>14245789
>>14245795
>/m/ posters in charge of understanding

bright slapping amuro did not help him. slapping a child soldier who doesn't believe in his leader and possibly has PTSD will not fix their underlying issues. IMMEDIATELY after being punched out by bright amuro leave, only to come back after he realizes that the white base needs him and he cares about the people onboard

>>14245612
I wasn't coming up with an anything.
I was just asking a question about ZZ.
Jesus Black Knight, way to jump the gun.

>>14245769
>>14245771
>>14245774
>>14245787
>>14245806
Ignoring your shitposting, you fill in the blanks with secondary material if it is not contradicted by primary sources. Not that hard of a concept and it's consistent with the main timeline. So using a show's depiction of the battle and knowing how it ends, and then filling in the little blank part in between is a leap of faith to you? I guess I understand why you cling to straws, but come on. The issue was that there are still some materials that can only be found on Earth that the colonies used (only so much you can mine from asteroids), or other Sides creating goods and services to trade with the Sides. The embargo completely disrupted both those fronts. You seem to be misinterpreting how canon in Gundam works. It's rather simple, the film versions takes priority, and if there are any other animated shows that do not contain material that is contradictory to the movies, they are included. (So just about every OVA minus Unicorn is included.) As for written mateiral, as long as none of the information there is contradictory to anything animated. (In this case, MS IGLOO's depiction of the Battle of Loum takes priority over the Bible's version.) it is accepted as well. Pretty easy to follow. Although I'm sure you'll find someway to intentionally misread it. Don't sound so smug when coming up with a gotcha question, one which you're wrong with too.

>>14245801
Bright in Unicorn didn't need to slap Banagher. A simple talking to managed to get Banagher to give up on total understanding, immediately allowed him to perform a mini-Axis miracle, and then allowed him to come to the conclusion that even if you understand each other that doesn't mean you can work and live together before resolving himself to kill Full Frontal.

>>14245816
My main question is why Black_Knight still can't tell the difference between anons when he's putting this much effort into his posts.

>>14245816
You didn't answer the question BK. What about the embargo hurt zeon? What material shows any ill effects, if any? What secondary sources? You made the claim, so back it up

>>14245757
>realize that for space to be safe you need enough ships to protect the 8-10 billion or so non-Zeon humans from any new threats created by Zeon, an anti-Federation government, so you commission some ships
>Zeon responds by starting their Elite Force (where have I heard that before? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waffen-SS), Federation responds with showing off what they've done rather than building anything more
>Zeon vastly expands their military, Federation responds by saying "I fucking told you so" and initiating the Year 70 plan
Because I'm sure with a vastly expanded military the only thing they were planning to build was a bunch of Papuas.

>>14245816
>You seem to be misinterpreting how canon in Gundam works. It's rather simple, the film versions takes priority, and if there are any other animated shows that do not contain material that is contradictory to the movies, they are included. (So just about every OVA minus Unicorn is included.)
Please cite your sources shoeing that this is the one true way canon works in Gundam.

>>14245817

>Literally UNDERSTAND Full Frontal to death
>Give up on total understanding

>>14245843
He was going to kill Full Frontal. No one bothered to think that two psycoframes might go on an LSD trip through time that ends with Char, Amuro, and Lalah still beyond the timing.

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>>14245633
>The logical option would be to shoot you first, and then gas your family
m8

>>14245757
>Plus the obvious oversight here is Zeon would need to create at least a hundred provisional governments, one for each colony and then find people who were sympathetic to them.
>It's too much effort to buy off some local offical with suitcases of gold even though they do it later in ZZ

So Zeon committed genocide because they wre lazy, stupid and cheap. Thanks for the confirmation.

> I again point to the limited manpower and resources at Zeon's disposal as to why that's impractical.

Wow, Zeon has so little manpower. Good thing they didn't decide to invade a large celestial body a thousands times larger than any collection of colonies, right? Oh wait, they did. And they even had enough troops to occupy large swaths of the Earth! So much for that lack of manpower, eh? Oh and when they invaded Earth, they did the exact thing I proposed, recruit and buy off local quislings and collaborators. Hell, they even treated the occupied Earthnoids better than their fellow Spacenoids by not massacring them at all. Why is Zeon racist against Spacenoids?

>>14245816
Japan took over half of Asia in the span of thirty years even after America cut them off from oil.

There. You've got your example dumb shit.

>>14245823
>putting this much effort into his posts.

He isn't. He's just repeating the same arguments over and over. Like a broken record.

>>14245852
It gets better.
>It would be mine because I shouldn't have turned my back to you and taken a better course of action to either disarm or evade your shots
Victim blaming at its finest just so he can try to stick to his guns about Zeon. You could literally kill him and he would try to turn himself into the police in his last breaths for failing to stop you.

>>14242952
>Federation are the bad guys

They maybe corrupt to the bone but they still a sense of humanity left in them.
Do you see Feds dropping Earth or a part of Straya on Colonies?
Sure they let the Dublin Drop successful because Earth already fucked with no food left to feed the population the Federation has to make a hard decision to leave some of its population behind so the rest can live dammit

And they sure as hell fight to the last man when some femnazi from spess threaten all of humanity with everything they got from obsolete cruiser to tired old man. now that is some fucking dedication to save humanity

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>>14246370

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Reminder that the Titans did absolutely nothing wrong and were vindicated by every space war both before and after the Gryps conflict.

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>>14243080

>>14245859
I wonder if he has a text file saved with all his canned answers, it would explain why he always spells naval the wrong way

>>14246760
I don't think hitler is really valid here. I mean, a more analogous situation would be the jews turning around and declaring fatwa (or whatever the fuck they do) on nazis after half of them got gassed.

One thing i thing gundam has always glossed over is the sheer level of reprisals zeon would've suffered after the war was over. The amount of people screaming for all their deaths in the federation would've been huge.

>>14246965
The hitler thing is about how Gihren wants to fucking genocide the earth people, do you remember what the nizes are famous for?Genocide

>>14246985
That...doesn't make sense in relation to what he was responding to. In context, he's clearly saying the feddies are following the path of hitler.

>>14247005
I got confused now, I was talking about what Dedwin meant when he said Gihren was like Hitler, you were not talking about that?

>>14246965

It isn't just the Federation that would have been screaming for reprisal, the Spacenoids should have been too given all the Sides they attacked. The Titans are supposed to represent that reprisal, but they don't really do a good job of it, in any sense.

>>14247008
No, i took the pic to mean anon was saying feddies becoming radicalized due to genocide were the same thing as hitler.

>>14247035
Welp I fucked up then

>>14247035
No, he's just making the genocide connection.

>>14247027
Who do you think the Federation is made up of? There's only the Republic of Zeon, Republic of Riah, and the Federation.

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>>14247041
It's alright anon. Understanding triumphed in the end.

>>14247053
>in the end.
End? What "end"? Does late UC just not exist anymore?

>>14247062
Does it? I thought unicorn retconned it out of existence.

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>>14245773
>Imagine if Bright had just become emperor or something, how much shit would have been avoided by having an actual humane, competent individual leading humanity.

Nah, what the Federation needed was for these two to have survived. Revil would have kept the military from being complacent and incompetent while Blex would have reformed the political side to stop being corrupt faggots and give Spacenoids a fair share.

>>14247062
Gwrecko will forever be canon. UC is now forever and in the toilet.

>>14247072
Only if you're a retard.

I'm sort of getting the impression that Black_Knight is false-flagging in an attempt to make the Feddies look like saints in comparison to Zeon.

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>>14247092

>>14247027
Honestly the Feds should have put Bright in command of the Titans and staffed it with Spacenoid survivors of Zeon's colony nuking and gassing sprees. The Spacenoid survivors would have gleefully hunted down the Zeek dead ender scum to the last man and Bright would keep them in check and from going too far.

>>14247114
Bright isn't some wonderful leader. He's a good captain but he's not one for politics.

>>14247123
>implying TITANS wouldn't have been Londo Bell 6 Years Early under Bright's command

>>14247152
Londo Bell was tiny compared to the Titans. Now, had the Titans been that much smaller, maybe.

>>14247123
He wouldn't need to be dealing with politics. All he'd be doing is killing Zeeks and making sure his men don't go overboard and commit war crimes while they're hunting down Zeek scum.

>>14247235
>No Crossbone Vanguard
>Feds being US Conservatives and Hillary somehow?
Pretty much entirely wrong.

>>14242952
Uh, can you prove that UC has the same laws as the real world?

>>14247235

I knew Titans were based. MEGA!

>>14247235
And this is why the Titans are my favorite faction.

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>>14245190
Yeah, Zeon has a real problem with killing children, civilians, and people fleeing a battle.

>>14247247
Sorry you can't admit your side is fucktarded.

Also F91 and everything spawned from it isn't even canon, so who gives a shit about the crossbones?

>>14247092

At last, I truly see. Fucking tripfags.

>>14247247
It's just a Trumpchump doing what they do best, dragging their shitty meme into threads where it doesn't belong.

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>>14247268
>Also F91 and everything spawned from it isn't even canon

>>14242996
That's what happens when a daddy's girl aristocrat is dropped into command.

>>14247272
Need some preparation H to soothe your aching asspussy, friend?

>>14247272
Wrong. The Trumpchumps are the anons with the megaboner for the Titans.

I'm in the camp that Gundam is just a show so who gives a fuck?

>>14245445

>suffered under hardships

Oh fuck off, every single depiction of Side 3, to a tee, shows it as being an alright place to be in 0079. The embargo did jack shit.

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>>14247275
>Declaring F91 not canon
>Get called autistic for it by the butt-blasted piratefag

Don't project your flaws onto me scurvy sperg.

>>14247272
>Trumpchump

If you're American there is no other rational choice.

>>14247288
>Trump
>Supporting an extra governmental organization that ignores national sovereignty with no oversight.

How much does Shillary pay per post?

>>14247305
0.2 Shekels

>>14247305
I dunno. Why don't you stay in space Mexico immigrant?

>>14247305
But there's two pro-Titans Trumptards right here
>>14247251
>>14247261
Well, maybe that second one is just a 40k fan.

>>14247298
>>14247285
>>>/pol/

Can't believe you guys are letting yourselves get derailed like this but I shouldn't be surprised in a Black_Knight thread. My guess is that he posted that to avoid having to respond to the arguments posted.

>>14247262
But anon, family, friends and random people who live near the military aren't considered human.

>>14247346
>>>/tumblr/
Deal with it.

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>>14247353
rip animal mother

>>14247325

Sarcasm pal. Trump is still the best Newtype.

>>14247346

Fuck off. You cucks make snide remarks about Best Boy and when anyone defends him you scream /pol/ and run to your safe space. Over half the country likes him, grow up.

>>14247373
>Barely gets 40% of republican votes in the primary
>HALF THE COUNTRY LOVES HIM

Trump supporter math, ladies and gentlemen.

>>14247313

Are you calling me Moon Race!? Them's fighting words, I'm a proud Inglessan you scum!

>>14247368
>Newtype
Genetic mutants with no impulse control, a predisposition towards bloody conflict, and no capacity for taking responsibility for their words and deeds?

>>14247382
GET FUCKED, INGLESSAN TYRANT
LUZIANNA WILL RISE AGAIN

>>14247381
>Breaks records for the number of actual votes he gets in a race with seventeen people

Wew lad. Donated your college fund to Bernie, or do you just think it's "Hillary's turn"?

>>14247387

STAY KEKED YOU STARTED SHIT FIRST

>>14247415
>backs off his previous statement completely
>tries to redirect to a totally unrelated talking point

Yeah, that's trump in a nutshell.

>>14247415
>moving goalposts
>not understanding how contested conventions impact voter turnout
>ignoring the fact that he broke records for most votes cast against him
>ignoring the general trend towards larger turnout in Republican primaries each cycle
wew yourself

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>>14247363
Don't worry senpai, instant karma happened.

>>14247381
>>14247373
>>14247360
Nah, you can all fuck off back to /pol/. This isn't the place to argue about politics. I'm not saying this as a like or dislike for any of the candidates but this is violating a global rule: Keep /pol/ shit in /pol/.

>>14247422

Stay salty, November will prove me right. Over half the country. Watch and learn.

>>14247429

Le increasingly nervous boi.

>>14247471
>>14247467
>>>/pol/

>>14247437

Riddhe did nothing wrong.

>>14247475
>>>tumblr

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>>14247476
Riddhe did everything right.

>>14247437
Is she ded

>>14247479

Calm down, it's just the Spic shitposting because he knows he's due for deportation.

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>>14247479

>>14247488
>Everything I don't like is /pol/!

You have to go back, ese.

>>14247495
>politics isn't /pol/
wew lad

>>14247507

Unless you spread that shit evenly I won't bite, especially since this thread has been war and politics from the very first post.

>>14247512

Ignore the Hillshill, reddit must be down for maintenance.

>>14245532
Most of them were

>>14247439
Make me, bitch boi.

>>14247512
The fictional politics of a mecha series is not /pol/. Do you understand the purpose of any of these boards?

I like Zeon because Zeon is badass. People in ironically defending Gihren are weird. I only pilot my Hamrabi for Mineva Zabi.

>>14247555

Unironically, fuck this new mobile keyboard.

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>>14247522
Burn

>>14247235
should add imperial japan top Zeon

>>14247082
This

>>14247082
>give Spacenoids a fair share
The problem with Zeon is that they wanted more than their fair share.
>wah a statistically negligible portion of us are psychic we should run everything

So you move the Earth Sphere capitol to space. Where? Which Side? Do the Sides that are now further from the capitol get to bitch even harder about lack of representation? Is the centralness of Earth and the fucking atmosphere that much of an impediment to communication when you can beam your messages through space at the speed of light anyway?

Shit. The fact that the Sides are all probably running on a standardized time means there'd be less issue communicating with all of them from the one place on Earth that shares that time than it would to contact an official on the other side of the planet because he's fucking asleep when you're working. Why even bitch?

>>14247282

But she has a command support team and it's shown that she listens to them.

Why didn't they make suggestions?

>>14247650
Because making the spoiled rich girl look bad via the corpses of child soldiers is far more important than little things like victory. Duh.

>>14247650
>Women
>Listening to advice

A reminder that the various leaders of Zeon include a space-faring fascist who would murder his own family to prolong a war he was losing.
A misanthropic 20 year old who wanted to bang a 14 year old.
And a sociopathic momma's boy who probably did bang a 14 year old

>>14247841

If the 20 year old you're referring to is Glemy then he's 17 and Roux is 16, so there's really nothing weird about that. Though you could be referring to Char, who suits the next description better I guess. Not that there's anything wrong if he did bang Lalah, since she was 17 to his 20 and that's a perfectly acceptable age range too.

>>14247841
Char wasn't a pedophile, that was just that one fag who wanted to bang Quess talking shit about him.

>>14245816
>ask question about show and characters motivations
>hurrr ur a shitposter

>>14247235
chuckled at AEUG

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Enough 'muh warcrimes, muh morals' posting. The real question is, which faction has the snappiest uniforms?

>>14247977
The answer is always nazis.

>>14247977
Titans > EFF ground > Zeon > EFF space > everyone else

All the others blend together

>>14247977

You just posted them.

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>>14247977
No competition really.

You know what? Fuck the Federation. And Fuck Zeon too, while we're at it.

Neither of them care about the people, neither of them answer to anyone, and they're both culpable for keeping up the constant cycle of warfare.

Was it really a war crime though? The ship was still in active combat and for all the Feds knew the pod ejection was to eject supplies from damaged parts of the ship.

Shooting down escape boats/pods usually only become a war crime in most countries if the ship has actively surrendered beforehand.

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>>14247977

>>14248025
This. They were the lesser of two evils but I wouldn't call them the good guys. AEUG and LM were really the only "good" groups and they weren't governments.

>>14248025
this is why I like 0087-0094 era UC. You got AEUG, Titans, PMCs like Themis, Zeon Remnants, African insurgents, Bandits, Space Pirates.

You have visors and monoeyes working together, cobbled together franken-MS, overcosted prototypes, and no short supply of OYW-era surplus. If any UC era should have more attention, it's Gryps and post-Gryps era.

>>14248168
Agreed. The only issue that arises is anachronistic designs but I wouldn't mind if something like Blazing Shadow or Mirage of Zeon was adapted.

>>14248168
>>14248227
DOUBLE FUCKING FAKE.

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So many (you)'s if I were a troll, I'd say I hit paydirt, but I'm not, so once more unto the breech, dear friends.

>>14245823
>>14245830
>>14245825
>>14245839
>>14245854
>>14245857
>>14245871
>>14247289
>>14247971
Because it's more efficient to make omnibus posts as opposed to trying deal with everything individually and estimating who is who since these are fluid conversations and not all separate individuals. Good job with the self fulfilling prophesy, what did you expect Side 3 to do when Federation aggressively expands their military after independence was declared? Just sit around and hope for the best?
>U.C. 0059 - The Federation adopts the Bardot Policy and applies economic sanctions against Side 3 (L2). The Bardot Policy froze all trade between Side 3 and the Federation (aka everyone else). Now, try to find when it was lifted. Protip, it wasn't before war broke out, meaning it had an effect on Side 3's economy otherwise you wouldn't maintain an embargo. (Even people don't consider the US's embargo on Cuba to be devastating, it still has an impact on the country.) And as I stated before, self sustaining doesn't mean high quality. North Korea can technically be considered self sustaining, is the quality of life good though? You tell me. Sunrise's Shigeru Horiguchi, the rest is simple logic based off that. That's your conjecture, but it was because it would be impractical, and nearly impossible to maintain. Look at real life when the US installed puppet governments in Afghanistan and Iraq, minus the people who directly befitted from it were less than happy and the countries suffered from massive instability, and this was with hundreds of thousands of soldiers assisting with the occupation. Now obviously, a colony is not the size of Iraq, but you still need to a sizable force to maintain security at each colony and to deal with insurgents. Plus find a way to make the provisional government look legitimate. Unlikely.

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As for the invasion of Earth, it was the fact that they needed resources and to keep the Federation on the defensive after the peace talks were sabotaged. As for why Zeon didn't aggressively pursue development of land specialized mobile suits like the Dom more quickly (The prototype was built and being tested in March.) is something never addressed in any series. The reason they were working with certain groups on Earth is, 1. and this is the big thing, they had the luxury of time to do that now. Unlike when the war began, they couldn't go to colony to colony looking for sympathizers. Even if the destroyed all the garrisons, there was no guarantee the citizens would support them. For the most part the landing operations were done either in areas sympathetic to Zeon or resource rich. It can be speculated that those who supported Deikun's ideas gravitated (pun intended) to Side 3 over they years which reduced the amount of people sympathetic to Side 3 in the other sides. 2. Life under the Federation wasn't sunshine and rainbows since even on Earth the elites still ruled and mainly looked out for their own interests. (Like how they just decided to save themselves in the TV timeline when the colony was dropped on Dublin.) Plus there was control over who lived on Earth, remember in Victory where people were considered illegal immigrates for living on Earth without the Federation's approval? So, you now have the time to engage with local dissidents since you don't have to worry about being Zerg rushed by the Federation, like Zeon had to at the start of the war. Sounds like you're upset I'm not answering your loaded question the way you want me to. You can't prove otherwise, if the Embargo didn't work, why never drop it? Don't do it in a way that can be precised as a shitpost if you're going to ask a question.

>>14248246
>not all separate individuals
Kek

Who are you quoting with all that greentext?

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>>14248246
Cocked up the green text, don't feel arsed enough to fix it since it shouldn't be that hard to figure out where the quote ends. Then again with some of the people here...

>>14242952
The same way M'Queve's use of a nuke or Ghiren firing of the colony laser during a truce period weren't considered warcrimes.

In short, they were. That is the whole point. The one year war was supposed to be the most bloody and horrific war in human history and by the end both sides were getting increasingly desperate and eager for an end to it. And much like in real life whether you were punished or not depended on who won and how much attention it got.

>>14247932
The second one is about Haman and what she felt towards Judau. I'm also pretty sure Lalah was 14, to say nothing about what Char was doing to Haman before he joined AEUG

>>14248318

Lalah was 17. It's her listed age in the novels, while her age is never mentioned in the anime, so it's the age most things state for her since it's a source compared to none. Also, Haman's entire problem is that Char won't bang her, not that he did.

>>14248246
>North Korea can technically be considered self sustaining, is the quality of life good though? You tell me.

Was life in Side 3's depictions ever shown to be as dire as the existence of an average North Korean citizen?

You tell me.

The answer is no, by the way.

>>14247865
this pretty much sums up this thread mate

>>14248246
>Horiguchi Shigeru: I count whatever’s in the footage as official.
Unless you've learned Japanese and can verify that 'フィルム' means "movies", which would be incorrect, you're just retarded.

>>14248639

I'm guessing it means film, because a quick GIS turns up a good few images of rolls of camera film as well as video film - but pretty much all the actual physical film stock and not an intangible one like I'm assuming he's taking it to mean.

>>14248384
>>14248639
Just posting an example that being self sufficient doesn't automatically mean things are hunky dory for a nation. It means film, and unless you use some mental gymnastics to re-interpret it film means movies. And even if you try to say it means the stock, it's used almost exclusively for movies.

>>14249502
Loanwords change meanings. For example, in Japan anime refers to all animation, over here it just means Japanese animation. Katana refers to all swords over there, here it refers to one type of sword. Even in the English language film has multiple meanings. It could mean movies, or refer to film as a physical object, or the art of filming.

>>14249502
>And even if you try to say it means the stock, it's used almost exclusively for movies
Got any proof to back that up? You literally don't know shit about Japanese.

>>14248246
>Black_knight can't even tell the difference between a namefag and a regular anon

I was >>14245823 by the way.

>>14249535
>>14249520
>>14249892
So you're just admitting to interpreting the word in the way that best suits your agenda as opposed to using a non-biased and straight translation. The latter is way I use it. Get some clarification from Sunrise if that's not good enough.

>>14250269
Black Knight go ask a Japanese learning community what the word means then report back to us. If you're right, they should agree. It's as simple as that mate.

>>14242952
Simple, because Thunderbolt isn't canon.

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>>14250281

>>14250274
That would raise the possibility that he could be *gasp* wrong, which he is autistically incapable of admitting.

Aw, who am I kidding. He'll just whine about how they were 'biased' and continue to delude himself that typing random words through Google Translate makes him an expert at the language.

Remind me again why anyone takes this idiot seriously?

>>14242952

I'll let you know of my opinion when the dubs come out, OP.

>>14248246
>North Korea can technically be considered self sustaining

nope.

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-northkorea-aid-un-idUSKBN0N01YK20150409

>>14250380
I actually went and asked DJT on /a/ for their opinion once, and they said that it did refer to film the object. Posted it here, and Black Knight dismissed it on the possibility that I might be a samefag with no proof at all.
He's good for honing your debating skills against though, so I give credit for that.

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>>14250383

>>14250479
This. Black_Knight has improved my ability to spot outright contradictions (factual or ideological), to maneuver and organize walls of text, to target goalpost moving, and when the opponent tries to completely divert the conversation in the face of defeat.

>>14248639

Just take a picture of the top Google machine translation sites with more than one word outputs (i. e. an actual explanation of the word) translation of the word. They all have film stock in some way or another. And they're machines, so they can't be biased, right?

>>14250636
>and when the opponent tries to completely divert the conversation in the face of defeat.

Just to be clear, you're referring to Black_Knight here, rght? Because i can totally see the delusional autist taking you to mean his opponents while posting some smug anime reaction pic.

>>14244803
>Io Flemming likes removing zeeks from the premises
To be fair that's not even Io in the OP, but yeah. This seems to be the right attitude.

And if my home had been wrecked by the forces of space-Nazi Tojo and family, and I'd been given a Gundam to fight them off with, I'd be all about it too. Most people would, because when one side is awful enough it doesn't matter if my new bedfellows aren't my favorite people in the world either: at least they're better than the Zeeks.

>>14247373
>4CHAN NEEDS TO BE MY SAFE SPACE DONT CRITICIZE MY SHIPOSTING IM TRIGGERED STOP OPPRESSING ME

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>>14250274
>>14250380
>>14250636
>>14250816
>>14250876
Good job proving my point in regards to letting your bias seep through once again while just resorting to petty insults, circle jerking and attempting derail the debate since you can't win on the substance. Complaining about autism, while posting on 4chan. Accusing me of being from /pol/, while calling me a 'nigger' Oh the irony of you people never cease to amuse. And even if you're right, and the word can be interpreted as an object, that film almost exclusively applies to movies. You should be thankful that a clear system can be made, and why get sore over what is, and isn't canon? It doesn't mean you're banned from watching shows that aren't part of the canon timeline. Or that canon is a super exclusive club that only a select few get into. (unless it contradicts the movies.) Demanding I post a smug anime reaction for you. So that just proves my point that a nation needs to have trade to even be properly self sufficient in the modern world, so the embargo did do damage to Side 3.

Oh, and no one ever did find a sufficient alternative to how Zeon could effectively reduce the manpower and resources of the Federation at the start of the war while not outright destroying the enemy aligned Sides. Since that was the core point of contention and every alternative presented was either extremely unrealistic (A defensive war against an opponent that countries at least a few hundred times more forces and controls every other part of the known world?) or impossible (Thinking you can turn back the clock and keep trying a diplomatic solution when that was tried and failed for 20 years? Just surrendering?) Contrary to what you believe, I'm an open minded guy and if you can find a way Zeon could have done it even quicker and more efficiently, I'll accept that and I'll condemn Zeon's tactics during the OWB. BUT, just making a suggestion isn't good enough, has to be applied practically.

>>14251932
>since they can't be self sufficient

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>>14251932

Side 3 did have trade, just not with the Federation. They could and did trade just fine with Jupiter. We know they did, because they got a lot of the stuff for mobile suits from them. They probably traded with Riah/Side 6 too, given that they were independent of the Federation at the time too.

Also, for your inspection, a picture of every machine translation from the first two pages of Google search results that gives an explanation or example of some kind of what a word means rather than just a word translation with nothing else. They're machine translations, so they can't be biased by your own word, and they overwhelmingly give back a result of the physical film itself, rather than the intangible movie. One of them even has news results that feature the word, all of which talk about film in the physical sense.

Why would the Japanese even use the word film when they have their own word for movies, which is eiga. It seems more likely they'd use it to refer to film as an object, or medium.

>>14252315

I should clarify the Google search I did was "Japanese to English Translation", not anything to do with "フィルム" just in case.

>>14252315
>>14252470
The Jupiter Fleet is an NGO that only deals in what is essentially fuel and just fly in to drop it off. While it is a pillar of any industrial society, it's just that, one pillar. Fuel alone doesn't create textiles, electronics, materials, food. And relations with Side 6 only opened AFTER they declared independence. So for the most part Side 3 was isolated for a vast majority of it's independence before war broke out. Film, which is used for movies. Film, which is the medium Shigeru Horiguch says that takes priority. It's like if he said books were what were considered canon. Would you say that doesn't count because you believe he should have said writing? Why have multiple words that mean the same thing? I wonder how such a confusing and vexing conundrum could exist?

>>14251565
Who are you quoting?

>>14252670

Multiple words don't mean the same thing. I just posted proof that even a machine translation says they don't mean the same thing. フィルム means film as in the physical thing you put in a camera, not film as in movies, which the Japanese use a separate word for. There is no conundrum.

Also, the Jupiter Energy Fleet might have been just an NGO, but they were an NGO no-one wanted to mess with because they controlled a vital resource in Helium-3. Hence why they could build their own mobile suits without recrimination. If they can supply mobile suit parts as well as energy, they can probably supply anything else Zeon wants. Not that they're likely to be starved for anything else, since the entire point of a space colony is to be self-sufficient. There's no shots of anyone wanting in Zeon, no indication anyone was in a situation of less than that the Federation embargo was responsible for. Just your assumption.

>>14252773
He's talking about what's used then if we go by what you're saying the definition is. Which ALSO proves my point. When is film traditionally associated with TV? Never, it's movies and cameras, so it's not that hard to comprehend it's a reference to movies. It's like if they said they consider anything written on paper to be canon. People would more than likely assume that means, anything in a book is canon. As opposed to twisting yourself into a knot thinking otherwise. Also again, the Jupiter fleet only supplied fuel, they were cut off from everyone else because of the embargo. If it wasn't effective, they would have dropped it to find another way to contain Side 3 as opposed to just hoping they'd break. Again, quality of life.

>>14253523

It means the difference between his quote saying 'anything in the films is canon' and 'anything on film stock is canon'. Which is a big difference.

Also, what quality of life? You've yet to supply any actual examples of bad quality in Side 3, just your assumption they have to exist because it justifies their actions to you. Which isn't an example.

The embargo didn't have to be 100% effective, just inconvenient to justify itself to the Federation, because the Federation were lazy shits and took the simplest method. The Cuba embargo fails in multiple ways on a consistent basis, but the US keeps it up because it's effective enough, not completely effective.

>>14253559
Outside of a more open interpretation for one, it barely makes a difference. Due to the fact they never went in depth into the life and times of what happened in Side 3, we can only go off what was done to Side 3. Obviously you can't prove that the quality of life for the Average Side 3 citizen was great, however we know there was an embargo, and based on historical precedent, those do affect the quality of life who it is target against. Also the larger the embargo, the more potent it is. You bring up Cuba and even admit it is effective to an extent. That logically can be applied to Side 3 in how it harms their economy.

>>14254231

That open interpretation is the difference. There doesn't need to be another one. And while Cuba us a good example of an embargo working, Side 3 is different because it was built to be self sufficient. Which Cuba wasn't. So proof of some kind would be rather a good thing. And which you don't have.

>>14254715
When neither one implies it includes TV unless you make a major leap of logic. Plus you're failing to take into account population growth stressing any established systems, let alone still ignoring that the embargo did negatively impact Side 3.

>>14255168

If it's on film stock it does include TV.