So I'm rewatching SEED, and yes I can see that it's

I've only seen some of early SEED but couldn't find it in myself to like it. Just seemed like 0079 all over again, straight down to the exceedingly boring earth parts. Plus it was the editted for Toonami version so crazy disco parties all around.

>>14178945
hah, I remember that.

that was 12 years ago.

how old do you feel anon

I'll just post this here

What happened to the Destroy between ep32 and ep38?

How come Kira couldn't even scratch its paint, yet Shinn opened up the cockpit with a single hit, then 6 episodes later they're relegated to oversized jobbers that get split in half with their main cannons being effortlessly blocked by another mobile suit? Didn't the first one have some super barrier?

Is it just Destiny being a turd?

>>14179004

The show sucks.

Alternatively, you could argue it's because Shinn and the others got new suits that were more powerful. The Destroy was also mainly a terror weapon - it's not an efficient machine.

Once the novelty wears off, it can be destroyed with sustained effort.

Of course, this makes one wonder why there wasn't simultaneous deployment of the Destroys. One for each city held by ZAFT. That would have fucked them up.

>>14178931

SEED is, at it's heart, decent and relatively inoffensive. It has it's problems, sure, but it's still a passable series. It's peace-porn, so what did you expect?

But I'll argue that is because it ended when what would become the major issues concerning the SEED-subfranchise were starting to come out. Most of Destiny's problems (writing-wise) have their roots within the way things were going in SEED, and were in full bloom during it's sequel.

The druggie trio was the best thing about SEED hands down

Too bad the Destiny equivalent sucked except for Auel

>>14179004
Fukuda is a director that doesn't really consider such things. If he wants something to happen, it'll happen no matter how much logic says otherwise. It seems like he believes asspulls are acceptable when telling a story, or at least he doesn't think too hard about them.

>>14178931
Fun fact, I watched 3 episodes of Destiny as a young child and I didn't watch mecha anime for ten years because it was so bad.

>>14179004

You can sort of explain that by Destiny and Legend having Beam shields and shield piercing weapons like Destiny's sword and Legend's spike Dragoons. They were basically made to fight Destroy's.

Freedom by contrast was mostly guns which were ineffective, and thanks to the fight always being two or three on one because of Neo and Sting helping her out, he couldn't really get into melee range before having to back off (and the one time he did she blocked it) His no kill preference didn't help.

But as we saw when Neo and Sting were down and he'd finally decided he had to kill her, he flew right up and jammed his sabers into it, downing it rather easily.

>>14178931
I'm still working my way through the various Gundam shows, but I constantly hear about how SEED is meh and SEED Destiny is garbage. Genuinely curious; what makes it garbage?

>>14179056
>But I'll argue that is because it ended when what would become the major issues concerning the SEED-subfranchise were starting to come out. Most of Destiny's problems (writing-wise) have their roots within the way things were going in SEED, and were in full bloom during it's sequel.

I'd agree. Lots of Destiny's problems were based in the fact that they immediately jumped into late Seed era stakes with WMDs being tossed around and evil puppetmaster manipulating both sides.

And team Kira having to fight everyone because they're "above" the war.

This wasn't so bad for the last 10 episodes of Seed, but trying to make a whole series about that from the start just didn't work.

Dismissed the series based on the title alone. "Seed". Really? Yes Japan, please pour more biblical and sexual innuendo into your works. Makes them that much easier to not give the time of day.

I watched through SEED and SEED Destiny dubbed not long ago, and I honestly thought both were good.

Sure, they do have problems, but I don't think they deserve most of the flack they've given.

>>14180936
ha, i had the same experience. it turned me into one of those autistic aggressively anti anime people for a good couple of years

>>14178931
I had less trouble going through SEED and Destiny than with IBO.

>>14180956
>You can sort of explain that by Destiny and Legend having Beam shields and shield piercing weapons like Destiny's sword and Legend's spike Dragoons. They were basically made to fight Destroy's.
I really hate the explanation that Destiny Gundam and Destroy Gundam were built specifically for destroying Destroy Gundams, because that just serves as a lame explanation for their performance against other Gundams, and the fact that we only see those two Gundams smash Destroy Gundams and lose the entire series.

That would only make sense if they knew that Destroy Gundam was going to be mass produced, and a half-competent pilot, a decent mobile suit and a beam saber can do the trick easily.

>>14179004
Because Kira was shooting at it over and over, and the beams bounce right off of it, even without it's beam barrier. To be fair, he was fighting Neo and Sting at the same time, (that leaves the question of what happened to all the other Windams though).

When Shinn shows up, after he sees that the beam rifle isn't working, he immediately goes for the kill, and tries to slash open the cockpit.. While Neo is telling Shinn that Stella's inside, we do see a short scene of Freedom trying to use it's beam sabers, but Destroy Gundam blocks it.

As for the other scenes? Fucking cruise control, they didn't have any other options, because they were running on late scripts, and the animation they use makes it really easy to use stock footage. Almost every scene with Destroy Gundam has stock footage in it.
I suppose you could argue that Heaven's Base was supposed to be Legend and Destiny's "real debut", but the fight on the moon is the same goddamn thing.
It goes by what GSD ended up considering a good fight under time restraints. Make the strongest thing the enemy's get completely blown out.

How much could you cut out from SEED/Destiny while still keeping the story intact and using minimal extra animation?

In other words, a compilation OVA series about 18-26 episodes in length. You can't cut Destiny out entirely and you have to keep the story intact, although you can cut details as you please. Basically, if you could edit both series for maximum enjoyment while still being able to let someone get the plot.

>>14181232
>That would only make sense if they knew that Destroy Gundam was going to be mass produced

Durandal probably did. He had the data for it before they even deployed the first one, somehow.

Meanwhile Destiny and Legend aren't rolled out until after Angel Down after which in a strange display of being genre blind after so long, Durandal is entirely convinced Kira is definitely dead and Lacus is now powerless to stop him. And after Athrun gets downed the next ep he is again completely convinced Athrun could not possibly have survived. The only thing he expects in opposite are Destroy's and grunts, with no Gundam's of Destiny and Legend's caliber with pilots capable of rivaling Shinn anymore since the only two were dead.

And then he's completely and totally BTFO with a look of stunned horror on his face when Lacus appears in Orb with SF and IJ and a not dead Kira and Athrun.

>>14181185
Haha this! AGE is so much worse, haha like holy shit it sucks hahahaha! Amirite SEEDbros?

>>14181185
Seed has a few ups along the way and can be pretty enjoyable. Destiny is fucking indefensible. I really don't understand how someone can find any kind of enjoyment or things to like in that travesty.

>>14178931
SEED is still shit
Destiny is just super shit

>>14182626
As expected of the only AU most similar to 0079.

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>>14178931
They're all just jealous, Kira is the only gundam pilot manly enough to get laid.

SEED and Destiny were only good for the BL

I think SEED's worst sin was that it wanted to be both a war story and a generic anime drama. Like, instead of portraying the Archangel as a cog in a bigger machine, they have to build it up as the greatest thing ever. Ditto Kira, whose past is so intertwined with the show's setting it boarders on fanfic levels. The war aspect is cheapened to all hell, ultimately turning into a super robot show in spirit, while the drama that drove the show dies a quiet death once Kira and Athrun join forces. Fukuda can just not plan a 4 cour series.

Then we get to Destiny, which pretty much poisons the well. It's the timeline doubling down on what SEED said, as childish and naive as it was. And all that does is turn it's heroes into raging hypocrites who ignore the world around them, do whatever the fuck they want, and then ignore the consequences their actions had. They're portrayed like they're Superman, but really they're more like Manchester Black.

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>>14183310
YOU WERE SAYING?

>>14181376
You know anon, ironic shit posting is still shit posting.

>>14180936

Are you me?

>>14185291
Amuro was the first pilot to get a girl pregnant, but that was in a novel.

Shiro is first Gundam pilot to get a girl pregnant in the run of his show.

Kira is the first Gundam pilot to explicitly have sex during his show, but didn't get her pregnant. Damn Coordinator infertility.

And then Flit is the first Gundam pilot to impregnate a girl, raise the child, and see that child pilot a Gundam during the run of his show.

>>14185371
Truly, Flit is the best dad.

>>14182650

Amuro wasn't a little bitch forever, though, and he killed pretty often.

>>14183310

SHIRO

FUCKING

AMADA

YOU

DUMB

FUCK

>>14185375

I like to think that Kira is the anti-Amuro, what Amuro was never supposed to be. Amuro grew into a proper soldier, a member of the military who followed orders. Kira, on the other hand, grew into a carniture of a Super Robot protagonist, someone who will go out and do what he believes is the right thing regardless of what he's ordered to do. Amuro was a part of a greater whole, Kira is the guy who will set humanity back on the right path. Towards the end of the war Amuro was facing machines that easily surpassed his own and had to rely on his skill, while Kira gets a new OP machine. Amuro talks about leading humanity by example in CCA, Kira will force humanity to play nice by force.

> fukuda is the anti-tomino

>>14180988
Many things, most notably really shoddy, inconsistent and nonsensical writing.

>>14185371
>Shiro is first Gundam pilot to get a girl pregnant in the run of his show.
No, that's Oliver.

>>14180988
Destiny? A bunch of reasons.

> They introduce a new cast and MC for the sake of accessibility, only to focus more on the exploits of the cast of the first SEED.

> Then they have Kira and the Archangel create a bunch bad blood with the new cast. They set it the barely touched new cast up against the popular old cast.

> Despite the Vs, nature, the show plays favorites. The old cast, who are supposed to be "above" war, are going around attacking armies in order to protect the Orb military. They're picking fights. They fight for what they believe in, make no case to other groups all while saying repeatedly that fighting is wrong and solves nothing. Meanwhile, the new MC is framed as being "misguided" when he voices his belief that they should take proactive measures against those who would break the peace.

> Speaking of which, massive amounts of hypocrisy in the writing. The show never really wants you to think too heavily on what the old cast are doing, but you're expected to cheer for them despite the intended moral being "Think for yourself and don't blindly follow your leaders."

> Character derailment. One character spies and records a meeting, and then acts completely shocked when an edited version of the meeting is played... and believes the edited version! Not to mention how one of the returning cast goes through the same character arc from the first series. Hell, couples who were meant to prove Coordinators and Naturals could get along are broken up by Destiny. Some rivalries are dropped in order for the show to reuse footage from the first show.

> And another returns from the dead without explanation. Seriously, he was confirmed KIA in the broadcast version but that was reconned in the compilation movies.

> Also, lots of flashbacks and stock footage. Sure signs of a troubled production.

>Plot Armor

> The Flawless Victory ending of the TV ver. This pissed off a lot of people back in the day, even people who were on Kira's side.

SEED is mediocre at best, much like most Gundam series.

But this is the Gundam fanbase so everything but your favorite show must be awful and we need to spend hours debating exactly how fucked up it is.

>>14186058
SEED is the best Gundam if you view it as a comedy show
Someone needs to edit it so that all episodes have a laugh track like Zeta

>>14186074
If SEED is a comedy with mechs, then Zeta is a wrestling show with mechs.

seed is a censored version of jersey's shore

>>14186074
>>14186126
>>14186058
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lwWbkzN6Nk0

>>14186126
Wait what is g then?
>>14186140
I want to argue that... But sadly i haven't seen Jersey shore.

SEED by itself, ranges from being meh to simply ok. I liked it personally, but from a critical standpoint, it's nothing to write home about. It could have stayed that way, just an ok entry in the Gundam universe.

But then Destiny comes along and with it's subpar writing, bastardizing of old characters, and just plain nonsensical-ness, retroactively made the original SEED drop from simply ok, to crap, mostly because lumping both shows together can't be helped.

>>14185773
>> Character derailment. One character spies and records a meeting, and then acts completely shocked when an edited version of the meeting is played... and believes the edited version!
Wait, is that when Lunamaria went to go spy on

>>14185773
>And another returns from the dead without explanation. Seriously, he was confirmed KIA in the broadcast version but that was reconned in the compilation movies.

I almost don't want to fault them for that, because they had no idea they were getting a sequel when they did that. If they did they'd clearly not have killed him.

Actually alot of Destiny's flaws could have been avoided if they just knew it was coming when they wrapped up Seed. Instead it's a jarring constrast. In only a year all the nations that were supposedly devastated by the war are back in fighting force with even bigger armies. The old cast seemingly just fades into obscurity to the point that nobody even seems to know the official story but them in universe.

And then there's Durandal and Rey who despite being heavily connected to Rau and the Ultimate Cooordinator project come the fuck out of nowhere. They knew what Rau was doing, why didn't they stop him? If Rau had two guys he was actually friends with why he did want to kill everyone. Were Durandal and Rey cool with being genocided?

>>14186321
agreed, I think the sequel wasn't all that planned. But SEED was a large success, and commercially it revived sunrise because the toys sold like hotcakes and the show had enough people watching it.

They just had to make a sequel of it, and commercially successful as the sequel was(fuck the strike freedom and all of its variants), it was a putrid pile of shit.

>>14187215
The toys bombed, what really sold was the character merchandise.

There is a very good reason the only SEED designs to consistently get kits are the Strike, Freedom, and Strike Freedom.

>>14187311
you are right, nothing else gets made

looks like everyone in japan hated the zaft zaku, gouf and dom

>>14185291

We don't talk about 08th's final episode.

引継ぎの新人ライターが無能だっただけです、どうせ使えそうな連中は残っていません諦めろ、学園馬鹿アニメしか作れないヘタレだけです

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なんで日本はザフト版ザク、グフ、ドムが嫌いだと決めつけるんだよ?
てめえら薄汚い外人共はMEGAS XLRがどうやればスパロボに参戦できるか死ぬまで語ってろ

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アメリカ人にガンダムを頼むとAS7-Dアトラスを出して来る、アメリカ人にスーパーロボットとリアルロボットの区別は無いマジンガーa並のパワーを持つボスロボットに武装を付ければ互角とかよく解らん定義が有る、彼らか見ればこれがガンダムなんだろ

>>14178931
>But in general it's not actually as bad as you people keep saying it is.
No shit, Dick Tracy. Even Destiny isn't as bad as we say it is.