Can we have a polite discussion on what exactly makes a robot

>>14034369
Real robot shows have plots and settings that pretend to make sense

Super robot shows are usually character driven

There are exceptions, but real and super are like two genders of mecha. There are things that are generally considered to be the norm on both sides.

In the end there's really nothing to care about. I want robot carnage and whatever form it comes in is good.

Why be concerned? Just enjoy stuff. If you see a million realism threads there's always shift+click.

We could, but I really don't recommend it

Super robots don't have an upper limit on their functionality and grow more or less on their own. Getter and TTGl are good examples for their Getter rays and Spiral power respectively. They also tend not to dive to deep into explaining the properties of the power that drives them and even when they do, the explanation tends to be vague like 'it's the power of evolution' or something.

Real robots are more grounded in reality in that whatever magic particle makes shit run the way it does in the show tends to have specific rules in the way they work. Like with Minovsky particles there's a whole article on how those things work and the show follows those rules except when Newtypes are involved, but then Newtypes aren't robots and most of the technology that harnesses their psychic bullshit are stated to not work as expected within the UC universe. 00 arguably turned into a super robot at the end of season 2 though.

Pretty much everybody's definitions are different and some people act really childish when another person's doesn't match up with their one. So it's best to not indulge those people.

Then there's the people who can't handle the fact that it's used broadly, isn't very specific, and not everything fits into it and go on a crusade to let you know that you thus shouldn't use it.

>>14034369
Unless you're looking at extreme cases like VOTOMS/TTGL, the situation is extremely blurry. The problem is that those "definitions" are often written by people who THINK this is what the genre is like but actually haven't seen much.
Really it's just our niche version of the deconstruction crap.

>>14034404
That's what I was thinking.

>>14034369
>polite discussion
>on /m/

>>14034390
The original Gundam hardly even touches on Minovsky particles, iirc.

Also, I think using Getter Robo as an example is pretty silly. It provides as much explanation as Gundam does on howthe rays function while pretending to be scientific. There's pretty much no difference between them when you look at Getter Robo Go.

>>14034390
>Getter Rays
>Power of evolution

Eh? They only propelled mankind's evolution by killing off all other intelligent races on earth

>>14034369
Any argument that tries to assert that real/super has bearing on plausibility, quality of writing, presence of magic, lack of mechanical verisimilitude and content of story or characters is basically dead wrong.

The knee jerk reaction is that they'll say "hybrid" or "deconstruction", but in the end when there's no tangible body of works that fit into clearly real or clearly super, then you've got an inherent problem in your thinking.

I think it pretty much either comes down to the design of the robot or if the robot is part of an army or some other everyday job. Like any slice of life mecha about mining or something would end up being the most real robot series ever in a lot of people's minds.

>>14034369
>Can we have a polite discussion
No.

I'm gonna take a shot. And I think we can have a polite discussion on /m/. So, from what I've seen:

1.Real robot mechs don't have broken shit like Universe-destroying canons, galaxy-piercing drills, etc.

2. There's more emphasis on the mech as a military weapon in real robot shows and mooks have standardized mechs more frequently whereas super robot shows have giant monsters/MOTW mechs created by the villain.

3.From what I've seen, the antagonists are more often human in real shows than super.

4. Super robot shows are more often hotblooded than real ones.

5.Real robot shows put more emphasis on explaining how shit works, how it was engineered etc.

6. More real robot shows are "war dramas" or deal with war than super robot shows.

So basically, if it's less realistic than 0079 and more like Getter Robo, TTGL, Mazinger or with broken powers I'll classify it as Super, and if it's more war-oriented and as realistic as Zeta, Dougram or Macross (even if this one is debatable), I'll classify it as Real robot.

I think it's mostly what kind of show it is. They are generally made for very different audiences and there are some generalizations.

However, the reality is you can write a show with a super robot in the style of a real's plotline, like Dancouga did. And the opposite is certainly true as well. The reality is that this shit was never meant to have concrete definitions, it was just show ideas people came up with, they weren't trying to fit shit into a niche when they were brainstorming.

File: XXXG-01SR_-_Gundam_Sandrock_Ver.Ka_-_Front_View.jpg (125KB, 557x600px) Image search: [Google]

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Its stat distribution.

The exception of course being this motherfucker

>>14034493
Everything you said is wrong. It's amazing.

>>14034512
I never said I was absolutely correct. So explain the difference between real and super, please.

>>14034493
>1.Real robot mechs don't have broken shit like Universe-destroying canons, galaxy-piercing drills, etc.

Neither do most 70's robots. Universe destroying shit didn't even exist in 70's mecha.

>2. There's more emphasis on the mech as a military weapon

What? Using Getter and Mazinger as an example, those two are obviously Government funded. No real difference other than them not mass producing thousands of giant robots.

>5.Real robot shows put more emphasis on explaining how shit works, how it was engineered etc.

This is pretty much a meme. 079 pretty much pulled New Types out of it's ass to avoid having to explain shit.

>6. More real robot shows are "war dramas" or deal with war than super robot shows.

What would you say makes things like Mazinger or Zambot 3 not a war dramas?

>or with broken powers I'll classify it as Super

Name a 70's robot with "broken powers". Things like GTMs or Turn A Gundam are stronger than anything from that era.

>>14034456
They've been stated to cause evolution actually. The Getter Beam works by causing shit to evolve so fast it explodes. The rays have also been implied by several works to be sentient and have chosen humans specifically to be 'blessed' by them at the expense of other races.

>>14034441
See above for how Getter rays and Minovsky particles are different. The original show didn't go too deep into the specifics of how they work because first and foremost Gundam is a glorified toy commercial. It's the side materials that really delve into the pseudo-science of how it works, like why it jams any waves that's outside the visible spectrum which in turn necessitates combat being done by line-of-sight, how they form a cubic lattice when pressed against each other and cause repulsive force which is how the Nahel Argama could fly despite having the aerodynamics of an obese whale.

>>14034493
This is bait

Protip: try using supporting facts next, jimmy
2/10 see me after class

>>14034544
The side material isn't part of the actual show, though.

>>14034544
>They've been stated to cause evolution
>The Getter Beam works by causing shit to evolve so fast it explodes.
That's an alt-universe OVA by a different creator.
>The rays have also been implied by several works to be sentient
So? That's a standard sci-fi concept. Not all sentient life will have the same form.
>The original show didn't go too deep into the specifics
And that's the only thing that counts. We're looking at the actual works here. Not cash grab side material for otaku. I could write up a bunch of pseudo science for Getter radiation too.

>>14034369
A general rule of thumb is that real robots tend to be more directly tied to miltary use than supers.
This isn't always the case, as with everything people say makes a real a real or a super a super.

A lot of things people say make a real a real applies to Gunbuster and Eva.
A lot of things people say make a super a super apply to Gundam.
It's a confusing can of worms that will never ever get a concrete resolution outside of SRW where a real is simply a unit that tanks via evasion and a super is a unit that tanks with its HP/Armor.

>>14034555
Did you read the mangas? The Shin Getter Robo manga by Ishikawa himself almost has the Shin Getter be an organic entity with it's own will. People don't so much pilot it as sit there and give it a vague direction to go in and wreck shit.

>>14034551
Minovsky particles as a whole do behave less erratically than Super Robot power sources though. They jam radio waves and radar so people resort to line of sight and when concentrated can be used as a powerful beam. Outside of that Minovsky particles don't see much else being done with. Newtype psychic bullshit is where Gundam's magic ass pulls happen.

>>14034562
>Did you read the mangas?
Yes. But you didn't.
>People don't so much pilot it as sit there and give it a vague direction to go in and wreck shit.
That never happens. Also, supernatural stuff is commonplace in things like Gundam and Votoms.

>>14034567
>Minovsky particles as a whole do behave less erratically than Super Robot power sources though

No? Come on, name that list of wacky power sources. You'll get a list of Ide, Spiral power and maybe getter energy. The rest? They're just normal energy sources. You're trying to assert it as the trait of a subgenre but in fact it's just an element that sometimes happens in mecha of all types.

>>14034569
>That never happens
The Getter Robos went on a rampage by themselves when Ryoma tried to stop Saotome from retrieving the Getter Dragon, which spun a cocoon around itself and was evolving. Not to mention Getter Emperor being implied to have a will of it's own. And Ryoma asking the Getter rays themselves what they want with humanity. You clearly didn't read the manga. Educate yourself.

Supernatural stuff isn't the issue, it's when it animates the robot that's when it becomes a super robot. Otherwise it's just psychic pilots.

>>14034572
That's because most super robots don't even get an explanation of what makes them tick, only that they do and you need to scream in order to make them work. Even Mazinger Z usually runs on photon energy but gets a boost from fucking Zeus himself for the Big Bang Punch. And guess what, photon energy is only mentioned in passing and every new move the Mazinger gets to wreck shit isn't explained or can be tied down to photon energy other than the Photon Beam, rocket punch or Breast Fire.

>>14034588
And Zeta Gundam formed an impenetrable aura of telekinetic energy around its body via the souls of psychics before proceeding to make its beam saber extend through sheer willpower. Also Amuro pushed back an asteroid while it was entering Earth's atmosphere.
>Otherwise it's just psychic pilots.
In robots that are built to channel psychic energy. It literally draws in souls.
>and you need to scream in order to make them work.
Now you're just shitposting.
>Even Mazinger Z usually runs on photon energy but gets a boost from fucking Zeus himself for the Big Bang Punch
What boost? Besides, did you miss all of Gundam Unicorn?
>And guess what, photon energy is only mentioned in passing
Photon energy is part of the main plot. It's an clean source of energy derived from Japanium ore which is mined from Mt. Fuji, and it is utilized for the entire city. Dr. Hell is trying to steal Photon energy and Super Alloy Z.

>>14034572

There's also the "flame" from the 2nd Gaiking series at least (never watched the original), G-Stone from GaoGaiGar... There are super robots that aren't moved by super special energy sources that answer to the pilot's feelings, but that whole concept in general is actually rather common for super robots, especially the ones from the 90s and on.

>>14034588
>and every new move the Mazinger gets to wreck shit isn't explained
The original manga doesn't explain the upgrades because it was rushing to keep up with the anime.

Every upgrade was explained in the anime and they were just add-ons by Yumi and his crew. Even the most questionable one (the ice beam) originally was just a glorified fire extinguisher could put out fires, but not damage the mecha beasts.

>>14034591
The robots were never built to channel psychic energy. The psycommus and biosensors were only there to amplify the enhanced spatial awareness and brainwaves that newtypes had in order for them to use shit like funnels. What Kamille and Banana did confused the people who built it just as much as it did us. The Psychoframe on the Unicorn wasn't even supposed to glow because it would make it stand out like a sore thumb in the black of space. It's psychic pilots.

And Photon energy isn't given any more elaboration than that. That it's a Mcguffin the big bad wants to steal. Minovsky particles have clear and defined properties, Photon energy doesn't.

Could we generally agree that shows with named moves (occasionally yelled) fall into the super category?

>>14034588
>every new move the Mazinger gets to wreck shit isn't explained

Didn't watch the anime, did you?

>>14034551
>the actual show
Why don't you watch Armageddon, Shin vs. Neo, then New, and get back to me on that, faggot?
The original Getter Robo and G were dumbed down versions of the manga. Same as Mazinger and Devilman.

>>14034605
>Why don't you watch Armageddon, Shin vs. Neo, then New

Those aren't from the 70's or from the original author :^)

>Same as Mazinger and Devilman.

The Devilman anime and manga are completely different and were created around the same time. They aren't based on each other.

>>14034596
So, G and 00?

>>14034617

Yeah definitely G, 00 gets pretty close too tbqdesu

>>14034617
00S1 was still real robot
00S2 went full super

>>14034617

Never really thought of how super 00 really is

I mean GN drives shooting green sparkles, Trans Am mode, it's all prettttty super

Gonna have to spam this meme more thanks senpai

>>14034628
Those were still within the realm of 'yeah, they still kind of make sense within how the GN particles were supposed to work' though. It's when season 2 rolled along with UNDERSTANDING and quantum teleportation that's when it went super robo tho.

>>14034369
>Can we have a polite discussion on what exactly makes a robot "super" or "real"?

I can give a polite answer that the distinction between real robots and super robots is irrelevant. It's just a way with which a part of the fandom can piss on the other half all the while ignoring that its own half is about as super/real as that of the other half.

There are no real robot series or super robot series. The qualifier super or real can only be given to specific robots. So for instance is Gundam a real or super robot series ? Well the titular robot is definitely super. It cannot be destroyed, it transforms (0079, ZZ), it combines (0079, ZZ). It has various armaments, it has a special attack. It runs on "invented energy" and is made of an "invented alloy". About as real as Mazinger Z.

Example of a real robot would be the Scoop dog of Votoms. Mass produced military mecha. Can be destroyed as you can destroy a tank. Have you ever seen a Gundam (not the mass produced variants) be destroyed in an anime ?

Real military mecha in anime are as rare as diamonds I'm afraid. There is a reason why Gundam failed to ignite the real robot revolution. Not even Gundam Zeta is a real robot.

Evangelions are real or super ? Well considering they run out of energy in 5 miutes without the plug they really cannot be qualified as super robots. Alien robots yes. Super ? No.

>>14034632

yeah but it's like the super was showing through the cracks and then BURST OUT

>>14034633
Gundams did get wrecked on screen though. The original 78 lost it's head and arm when fighting the Big Zam. Getter Robo also gets damaged quite often on screen as well. That it cannot be destroyed is less because it's super and more because of plot armor.

>>14034633
It isn't what the robots are made of that's important but how willing are they to stay within the rules they set for themselves. By and large the UC timeline gets roped into super robot territory not because of the robots but because of the psychic bullshit their pilots pull off. See >>14034595.

>>14034633
>It's just a way with which a part of the fandom can piss on the other half

I just use it to explain to people who don't care about /m/ stuff how the genre can be different. Even super casual toonami crowd western fans can see a difference between EW Wing Zero Custom and 08th MS team, and the Real to Super spectrum helps understand why they might be different. I don't think I've ever used the distinction here.

>>14034595
>The robots were never built to channel psychic energy. The psycommus and biosensors were only there to amplify the enhanced spatial awareness and brainwaves that newtypes had in order for them to use shit like funnels. What Kamille and Banana did confused the people who built it just as much as it did us. The Psychoframe on the Unicorn wasn't even supposed to glow because it would make it stand out like a sore thumb in the black of space. It's psychic pilots.And Photon energy isn't given any more elaboration than that. That it's a Mcguffin the big bad wants to steal. Minovsky particles have clear and defined properties, Photon energy doesn't.

Oh my, this is the pot calling the kettle black.
Minovsky particles are invented. They don't exist and have the same magic properties that photon energy does. That is to say they do what the auther wants them to do. Now, were the author using real science he wouldn't have a choice now would he ? But as it stands, people that herald the realness of Gundam because it uses Minovsky particles are as retarded as those that qualify Votoms as super because Chirico ends up being some kind of god.

>>14034658
The difference is that photon energy isn't clearly defined in what it can or cannot do. Minovsky particles are. That they're fictional or not isn't the issue. It's whether their characteristics and behaviors are well defined and consistent.

>>14034596
>>14034617
FIN FUNNEL

>>14034639
>Gundams did get wrecked on screen though. The original 78 lost it's head and arm when fighting the Big Zam. Getter Robo also gets damaged quite often on screen as well. That it cannot be destroyed is less because it's super and more because of plot armor.

Mazinger Z and Baldios both have plot armor. Are they super ? Be careful with the answer.

>>14034658

>people that herald the realness of Gundam because

Not my argument, I just think people tend to forget this stuff because they watch the show and tend to remember the rest of it more strongly and that becomes what gundam "is about" in their minds. In both 0079 and Zeta there are points near the end when they go much more supernatural in a way that feels unexpected. I think people tend to remember the more realistic majority and minimize the ending stuff.

>>14034633
>Mass produced military mecha. Can be destroyed as you can destroy a tank
>Well considering they run out of energy in 5 miutes without the plug they really cannot be qualified as super robots. Alien robots yes. Super ? No

Getter confirmed for real

>>14034668
Plot armor dictates whether the robot gets wrecked or not, not if they're super. Learn to read.

>>14034668

not him but yes they are

>Be careful with the answer.

SERIOUS ROBOT CARTOON CLASSIFICATION

>>14034665
>The difference is that photon energy isn't clearly defined in what it can or cannot do.
Yes it is. It generates photonic energy. That's it. It's just a battery, basically.

>>14034665
>The difference is that photon energy isn't clearly defined in what it can or cannot do. Minovsky particles are. That they're fictional or not isn't the issue. It's whether their characteristics and behaviors are well defined and consistent.

You do realise that the only thing about Minovsky particles that is told is that they inhit long range scanners ? And it makes long range attacks impossible. Gundam 0079 anime docet. They are about as well defined as photon energy in Mazinger Z. It's easy to retconn this shit over the course of 40 years to make it look realistic but look at Gundam 0079 and tell me seriously it's not a super robot series. The Gundam has all the traits of other 70s era robots, Mazinger Z, Great Mazinger, Grendizer, Getter. What changes is the setting of the story. But the robot itself is about as super as the other Nagai robots.

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>>14034633
>Have you ever seen a Gundam (not the mass produced variants) be destroyed in an anime ?
While not completely totalled and it was repaired, the GP01 got pretty fucking obliterated.

>>14034687
>Kou never heard of strafing

>>14034684
That can be chalked up to the sentiment towards robots at the time, being that robot shows are little more than toy commercials. The original design for the Gundam was to have it plain white so it could be camouflaged against the clouds but the execs shot it down in that it would be a design that's boring and no kid would want. That philosophy is apparent in the rest of the show where it largely follows the format of other super robot shows at the time, as you mentioned. As such, 0079 isn't a good representation of what should and shouldn't be considered a real robot show.

>>14034687
>that mecha gore
muh dik

>>14034692
The Gundam wasn't calibrated for space and wasn't functioning properly.
Kou was just being an impatient, arrogant shit who wanted Nina to see his dick.

>>14034369
The 'real/super' monikers were a term used by the staff in the older Super Robot War games to describe stylistic differences. Since some robots were noticeably more 'mechanical/technocool' where the mecha are effectively expendable tools.

Whilst others were campy, flashy and more like your old school superhero comics full of 'samurai spirit'.

Older series used to be more distinguishable but as time went by everything has basically blended/melded to having a little of everything so almost everything is a Super robot series now.

Not helped by newer fans who just seem to refuse mecha is a genre broad enough to have a whole spectrum of styles and run under the 'anything with big stompy robots is fantasy and therefore super' blanket, most of which just do it for attention/trolling.

Real robots or whats left of that style do exist but are very very rare now so it's mostly those who like that style who use the term. The closest we've had to modern real robot series? Argevollen and Broken Blade, IBO Gundam and maybe Viper's Creed are probably it, they certainly carry most of what people used to associate with that term.

Votoms, Patlabor and Dougram as some have mentioned are the definitive example of real robot series. Gundam used to be considered there as well but in truth only one or two select series really fit in. Best examples would be War in a Pocket and Victory Gundam far as animated stuff goes.

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>>14034633
>Have you ever seen a Gundam (not the mass produced variants) be destroyed in an anime ?

Yes?

>>14034713
>Broken Blade
>literal magic robots
>real

>>14034718
They run on psychokinetic powers. Everyone in the world is a mutant.

>>14034717
Still functional.
That's damaged, not destroyed.

>>14034695
>That can be chalked up to the sentiment towards robots at the time, being that robot shows are little more than toy commercials. The original design for the Gundam was to have it plain white so it could be camouflaged against the clouds but the execs shot it down in that it would be a design that's boring and no kid would want. That philosophy is apparent in the rest of the show where it largely follows the format of other super robot shows at the time, as you mentioned. As such, 0079 isn't a good representation of what should and shouldn't be considered a real robot show.


You sir are an exception. But the reality is that all (99,99%) of Gundam fans cited Gundam 0079 and the UC timeline as the epitome of the real mecha genre, and the Gundam robot as the apex of what a real robot is. As you correctly say the reality is more nuanced but fans unfortunately don't look at it that way.

>>14034718
Magic in the context of Broken Blade is no different than electricity.

>>14034728
>Still functional.
It loses both arms and a leg in that scene.
What exactly is its function after that?

>>14034730
Truth is that Tomino originally wanted to write it as a real war story but with robots in it, which is one of the possible sources where the term 'real robot' originated from. In spirit he wanted it to be as realistic as possible which is why he invented the Minovsky particle; to give a reason for the robots to even be around. It's when the execs meddled in all of it that he had to turn most of it into a super robot show. The rest of the UC timeline does stick to the behaviors of Minovsky particles as detailed in side materials citing Tomino as the source, but when you throw in psychic bullshit from newtypes the lines get a bit blurred, although the robots themselves are still 'real' but the series is a bit more ambiguous. The newtype-centric tech wasn't supposed to manifest souls of dead humans or push back an asteroid, it was the pilot.

>>14034738
Oh right I forgot Char fires back.

>>14034369
There was a time when /m/ used the "teal"/"super" distinction to refer to the setting, or the show itself, and not the actual robot. And even then, it's fast and loose.

>>14034738
To toast bread.

>>14034520
ideon?

>>14034742
I might be wrong but on Newtypes - while we see it as silly nowadays, Psychic powers were considered "scientific" back in those days so given the knowledge of such things back in those days, using them as a sample of an "unrealistic factor" might be a little off

A real robot pilot wins battles because of his skills

A super robot pilot wins battles because of his overpowered robot

>>14034929
I can think of exceptions to both.

SRW Super Real Distinctions.

Super - It can't dodge, and tanks hits.

Real - Dodgy as fuck, fragile if hit.

And like all the others, there are exceptions (Jeep for example)

>>14034953
I'm waiting.

>>14035017
>Jeep
Is that related to Mazingolfer?

>>14035021
Name an overpowered robot from the 70s

>>14035025
OP's pic related: Mazinger Z.

>>14034929
So I guess the Getter pilots are real robot pilots, then.

>>14035110
>Z overpowered
>when it frequently gets its ass kicked

I always felt a big part of the super vs real argument has to do with the basic setting. In Supers you usually have the old man professor, like Satome and Kabuto, making the robot to fight some sort of outside force, like the Dinosaur Empire and Dr. Hell.
Real on the other hand usually has the antagonists be other humans, and the robots are more like really fancy tanks in terms of origin.

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>>14035025

>>14035162
>A robot that can become god or a devil
>not extremely powerful

>>14035162
> So I guess the Getter pilots are real robot pilots, then.

Getter 1, 2 or 3 is usually overpowered due to its pilots compatibles with ray getters

>Z overpowered
>when it frequently gets its ass kicked

It gets his ass kicked because Kouji is an autistic cunt that dosen't know how to operate a robot.
Besides Mazinger Z is really overpowered with its special alloy and weapons.

And of course when the super robot get overpowered by an ennemy, it is time to make a new super robot greater than before. That's how it usually works.

>>14035176

I think this is the best explanation I've seen in this thread.

>>14035021

>A real robot pilot wins battles because of his skills
How many gundam series have had a support character saying
>you just rely on the strength of your machine!
Even if you pull the "gundam is a super" card (please don't) this trope is used a ton in the "new prototype out preforms mass production models" type shows.

>A super robot pilot wins battles because of his overpowered robot
There are several super robot shows where an enemy has an advantage over the super robot, and the pilot has to use a strategy to negate it (And later gets an upgrade to overcome the weakness, but lets not get into is.) One example is Kouji borrowing Sayaka's missiles to handle a flying robot. Another example is Magne Robo Gakeen where the super robot has to trick the enemy into nuking their own forces.

>>14035024
God damn autocorrect. I meant Jeeg.

>>14035176
This so much.

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>>14034713
Best reply in the thread. Thanks for posting this.

>>14035110
>Mazinger
>Overpowered

Haha, wow.

>making the robot to fight some sort of outside force, like the Dinosaur Empire and Dr. Hell.

Dr. Hell is human, mate

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>>14035258
He may be human but in no way is Dr. Hell and his army of mechanical beasts the same as something like Feds vs Zeon or the factions in VOTOMS

>>14034595
Didn't Kamille design the Zeta?

>>14034673
In fairness, you COULD probably make a reasonable argument for the original Getter. It wasn't that amazing by any means, the only thing special about it were its power source and its pilots

>>14035017
>@3: EVERYTHING can dodge

>>14034369
It more has to do with implementation. Super robots are extensions of their characters, eldrich gods, etc, related robots are combat equipment.

Keep in mind that when Mazinger's theme song called it a super robot, it was just saying it was amazing and cool

>>14035388
>Super robots are extensions of their characters
No more than any random Gundam. Besides what about the series where the robots are disposable, like Getter?

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>>14034369
it's simple.
human vs human-> real robot show
human vs anti-Humanity fuck yeah whiners- super robot show

>>14035558
Macross confirmed for super robot.

>>14035558
What is Macross then?

Super Robots = Superman
Real Robots = Batman

>>14034435
>polite discussion
>on 4chan

I'm going to go join the "It's the setting and aesthetics that make a show fall into the categories and not the robot itself". Often you could paint a super robot green, and it would fit in a real robot setting just fine. And Vice Versa.

Super robot settings:
>The attacks of the robot are named, and are shouted, usually in english
>The color palate is bright, the pilots wear brightly colored outfits, and the robot itself has bright striking colors.
>The robot is referred by name, and often spoken of as a super hero.
>The enemies are outlandish with larger than life personalities. Usually there is a monster of the week, with one of the leaders of the bad guys trying to take out the heroes in some way.
>The Heroes are attached to a lab, or a private organization.
>The Supporting staff all have quirks.

Real robot:
>Takes place during a war
>Heroes are part of the military, mercenary group, or attached to the military in some way.
>Antagonists are the other military, consisting of a lot of mass produced grunts, and a hand full of characterized aces.
>More subdued color palate, with lots of greens. Most of the grunts are all the same color, with the MC getting a special color scheme to start out
>No named attacks, the pilot just shoots his weapons. May scream the name of his rival, or yell when doing a powerful attack.
>There is a large supporting staff, usually down to earth personalities, or background characters don't talk.
>Robot needs to be constantly upkept, reloaded has a large staff, repaired, etc.

And here is the thing though. None of these are hard fast rules. Not one of them. Just generalities. There are Real Robot shows where pilots shout their attacks. Super Robot shows where the robots run out of ammo. Real robot shows where they aren't part of the military. Super robot shows where the pilots are military. Etc.

The lines blur. A lot. It's not really worth paying attention too. Or getting mad about. Basically this: >>14034404

>>14035598
Super robot,obviously

>>14035605
I used to belive that too,until I realized his name is batman,not realman

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_know_it_when_I_see_it

Trying to put specific criteria on something like this isn't going to work, and just invites more shitposting as people poke holes in whatever arbitrary "definition" you try to push, because no set of criteria is ever going to be anywhere close to airtight.

Super Robot --> mech is treated as superhero in show

Real Robot --> mech is treated as weapon/equipment

>>14035665
>The attacks of the robot are named, and are shouted, usually in english
>The color palate is bright, the pilots wear brightly colored outfits, and the robot itself has bright striking colors.
>The robot is referred by name, and often spoken of as a super hero.
>The enemies are outlandish with larger than life personalities. Usually there is a monster of the week, with one of the leaders of the bad guys trying to take out the heroes in some way.
>The Supporting staff all have quirks.

Literally all of this is wrong.

>>14035721
Getter Robo and Mazinger is real.

>>14036229
Great rebuttal friend.

>>14036530
asserted without proof, dismissed without it etc

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>>14036611
>Named attacks not a super robot staple
>what is ROCKETTO PAUNCH!
>what is GAGA DRILL BREAKER!
>what is GETTER BEAM!

>>14037032
>what is toei anime and one gainax mecha

>>14035558
>human vs human-> real robot show
> human vs anti-Humanity fuck yeah whiners- super robot show

So SPT Layzer is a super robot show ?

>>14037032
>what is GAGA DRILL BREAKER!
Lady Gaga's latest hit?

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>>14037036
Is this trolling or retardation? It's so hard to tell sometimes.

>>14037078
Was there any doubt?

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Lets not forget to bring up mecha shows that don't fit almost any criteria for either "genre" to further show how useless this exercise is

>>14037522
It'd be easier to bring up what shows actually DO fit the criteria, because there are so few.

Also, you need an actual criteria.

>>14037531
I don't think it's so much that mecha shows don't exactly fit a list of criteria as that most mecha shows take a lot from both sections of lists like these >>14035665, with a show like Dai Guard being a prime example

But then you got shows like Gorg or Big O where almost nothing from either part of that list applies to them, which I think better demonstrates how pointless this is because with these shows, the lines aren't "blurred." Instead, the lines are not even in the fucking ball park.

Superhero robots. Not superhero robots. That is it, this is the difference.

>>14037629
I've never seen a robot that was a super hero. What is a super hero to you?

>>14037619
Even more reason the distinctions are bullshit.

>>14037637
>I've never seen a robot that was a super hero
Well there is Heroman, Vision, The Red Tornado, yeah, I'll shut up now.

Yo janitors, where the fuck you at? You guys suck, but you usually delete these threads within a day or so of when they're posted.

>>14037637
If Mazinger Z doesn't seem to be a superhero robot to you then I question your definitions.

He fights the monster of the week, he has an (anti-)heroic design. He is a masculine robot, not a genderless machine. Kouji himself can't be a super hero so Mazinger serves as Kouji's super power. Mazinger is as much the hero as Kouji.

>>14035385
>Impact: NOTHING can dodge

>>14037685
>If Mazinger Z doesn't seem to be a superhero robot to you then I question your definitions.
It'd be nice if anyone knew yours.

>He fights the monster of the week
Most shows are "X of the week". That includes every Gundam.
>he has an (anti-)heroic design
What? First off, if anything Mazinger looks heroic. Secondly, what?
>He is a masculine robot, not a genderless machine.
It's just a machine. It doesn't have gender traits one way or the other.
>so Mazinger serves as Kouji's super power
Mazinger is a machine that can be piloted by anyone. That's a huge part of the story.
>Mazinger is as much the hero as Kouji.
Mazinger is a central part of the story because its a machine that the bad guys want. It doesn't have a personality or is portrayed as a person. It's just a robot that's really strong and advanced.

>>14037685
Sounds like every mecha series I've ever heard of. Guess they're all Super then, time to pack up and go home.

>>14037685
Dougram confirmed for Super.

>>14036229
>>The attacks of the robot are named, and are shouted, usually in english
>The color palate is bright, the pilots wear brightly colored outfits, and the robot itself has bright striking colors.
>The robot is referred by name, and often spoken of as a super hero.
>The enemies are outlandish with larger than life personalities. Usually there is a monster of the week, with one of the leaders of the bad guys trying to take out the heroes in some way.
>The Supporting staff all have quirks.

Gundam right ? Lol. It satisfies all your criteria except shouting the weapon's name. But we can replace it with newtype bullshit talking. Camille that talks to jerid during fights etc...

>>14037796
I can think of a number of times in UC that weapon names were shouted.

>>14035598
>What is Macross then?

A j-pop show with airplanes.

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If the characters are soldiers in a formal military or something similar, then it's real robot. You're welcome.

If you're too stupid to know the difference between a real robot or a super robot you need to fuck off back to /a/.

This shouldn't even be an issue.

>>14037829
How do you tell?

>>14037842
He doesn't have a real answer, so he's just gonna give you the "if you don't know you don't belong here" cop out.

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>>14037842
>>14037845

Your heart tells you. If you can't tell it means your heart doesn't truly love mecha.

Any robot with Super in its name is super, otherwise it isn't.
Super Robotto Mazinger Zetto: Super
Mobile Suit Gundam: Real
Super Gundam (Mk II + G-Defenser): Super

>>14037847
>implying those who see mecha as binary love it more than fans who have reached mecha enlightenment

I'll give you a hint: newfriends unironically use real and super as genre terms

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>>14037858
You've failed to comprehend my point

The point being that you should be listening to your heart when it comes to mecha and only do what feels right for you. Letting others influence your opinions or ignoring your feelings towards a robot because of someone else means they don't come first

>>14037078
Gradosians turned out to be humans after all,so it switcches from supe to real

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>>14034369
One is a term hardly anyone uses anymore and the other is a term people who are in denial about liking mecha shows use while saying some bullshit reasoning like it focuses on the characters more than most mecha shows.

>>14037702
>D: NOTHING can tank

Do you guys think one of the biggest problems is people who only watch modern mecha and everything they know about older series is from the SRW series?

While we're at the differences between Real and Super Robot, how often do we get shows where the two concepts collide.

E.g. in Aldnoah.Zero (and that was the only interesting point of that show), Earth uses Real Robots while the Martian forces run on pseudo-scientific bullshit and have the big bad gattai'ing during the S1 finale.

I'd like to see more of that with less Inaho and Slaine.

Does it have one or more attacks that are much more powerful than the rest of its weapons?
Yes: Super
No: Real

Does it rely more on absorbing hits or avoiding them?
Absorbing: Super
Dodging: Real

Is it a one-off design with specialized parts or equipment compared to the rest of the setting?
Yes: Super
No: Real

So basically the SRW way of things.

>>14042921
>Does it have one or more attacks that are much more powerful than the rest of its weapons?
Yes: Super
No: Real

I can't think of any.

It's really impossible to separate the two into distinct "genres" when so many shows are a gradient of them. The terms should really be kept to SRW as they actually have a purpose there.

>>14042921
>Does it have one or more attacks that are much more powerful than the rest of its weapons?

When has this happened

>Does it rely more on absorbing hits or avoiding them?

You've been playing too much SRW and watching too little mecha

>Is it a one-off design with specialized parts or equipment compared to the rest of the setting?

That's such a flawed concept. This implies that Chirico's Rabidly Dog or Strike Dog is super robot.

>>14043407
>When has this happened
Shining Finger, Breast Fire, Getter Beam, Longinus, Hyper Mega Cannon. Fucking constantly.

>You've been playing too much SRW and watching too little mecha
>Implying there's any other time something being Super or Real matters

>That's such a flawed concept. This implies that Chirico's Rabidly Dog or Strike Dog is super robot.
It's a which-is-there-more-of thing shithead.

>>14043420
>Breast Fire

What? No.

>>14043420
How can you prove that their more powerful? If they aren't, why doesn't the robot spam just those moves? What it comes down to is that those abilities are powerful in certain situations.

For examples, Breast Fire isn't more powerful than Mazinger's other weapons. That's patently false. Getter Beam is powerful, but it doesn't necessarily ever do more damage than a tomahawk to the face. Hyper Mega Cannon is just a big gun, it has a lot of flaws because you're stationary. Longinus is a plot device. Shining Finger? Maybe, but it's based literally on emotion so there are many times where its weaker.

>It's a which-is-there-more-of thing shithead.
What? That doesn't make sense. Chirico has three special robots compared to Kouji's one. Or two if count Mazinkaiser.

>>14043452
>How can you prove that their more powerful?
Breast Fire melts everything in front of it compared to Rocket Punch busting a hole through a thing, Getter Beam does similar compared to the Tomahawks just chopping clean through things, Hyper Mega Cannon is still the biggest gun in Early UC and erases battleships.
>If they aren't, why doesn't the robot spam just those moves?
Because it's not the right place all the time.

>What? That doesn't make sense. Chirico has three special robots compared to Kouji's one. Or two if count Mazinkaiser.
Not robots, which parts of the list. Like ZZ would be Yes Dodge Yes, so it'd be a Super.

>>14043475
>Breast Fire melts everything in front of it compared to Rocket Punch busting a hole through a thing, Getter Beam does similar compared to the Tomahawks just chopping clean through things
So they're not more powerful? Okay.

>Hyper Mega Cannon is still the biggest gun in Early UC and erases battleships.
So does a beam saber. There have been plenty of times in Gundam where people just chop up battleships. Hell, they could probably destroy a battleship with vulcans given how retardedly weak they are portrayed.

>Not robots, which parts of the list. Like ZZ would be Yes Dodge Yes, so it'd be a Super.
Use proper English, you sperg. Are you attempting to talk about unique robots or SRW dodge/evade bullshit? Either argument favors my stance.

>>14043487
>So they're not more powerful? Okay.
>The punch that can only go through something is as powerful as the heat ray that can melt a half dozen mechabeasts or whatever.
Sure.

>There have been plenty of times in Gundam where people just chop up battleships.
That's not erasing.

>Are you attempting to talk about unique robots or SRW dodge/evade bullshit?
Neither. I'm talking about taking a robot and comparing it to the list.

>>14043512
>Sure.
The OP of Mazinger shows rocket punch destroying multiple targets at once, broski.

>That's not erasing.
That wasn't your first goalpost.

>I'm talking about taking a robot and comparing it to the list.
You really suck at this whole communication thing.

>>14034369
super robots do cool shit and reals make you go to sleep
i shoot oversized assault rifle @ u

>>14043524
>The OP of Mazinger shows rocket punch destroying multiple targets at once, broski.
And Dragonar's opening makes it look like it has a budget.

>That wasn't your first goalpost.
Yea it was, it's a much more powerful weapon than the Hyper Beam Sabers or the missiles or anything else on the ZZ.

>You really suck at this whole communication thing.
Apparently.

>>14043534
>Yea it was, it's a much more powerful weapon than the Hyper Beam Sabers or the missiles or anything else on the ZZ.

But anyone using it is completely vulnerable, stationary and can only shoot after a lengthy period of time. Raw power isn't everything when considering capability. It's just a piece of artillery used by robots. Fuck off with your overly simplistic thinking.

>>14043620
This isn't about usability though, it's about raw power.

>>14043644
Your criteria is retarded and baseless. The end.

>>14043664
Yea, just like every other way of comparing them.
lawl ur a puse

>>14036229
I think you missed the point of everything I wrote.