Could Mika in the Barbados defeat Setsuna in the Exia? To keep

Beam weapons > Nana-laminate armor.

>>14004368
I was thinking more melee combat.

Keep in mind Mika fights against second-rate pirates, glorified militarized police forces, and an honor guard, most of whom don't see real battle all that often (if ever).

Fun fact: In a way, these two protagonists are the closest to being Gundam.

No. The Exia can fly/hover for much longer periods, it is much more agile, has a speed and weapon output boost ability, and GN armor is basically the GN equivalent of Nano-laminate and is supposed to be very resistant against physical round weaponry. That said Mika could still potentially win if he manages to get a couple of hits in somehow as that mace weapon is designed to deal damage through tough armor.

>>14004363
GN Blades would decimate

With as much as Setsuna likes to throw those GN shortlades around, no fucking way.

I'd be surprised if Barbs could even catch up to Exia.

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Setsuna also has this advantage

>>14004384
Not seeing how hitting the Exia with that stupid mace thing is going to do any damage given how stupid advanced GN technology in 00 is.

>>14004363
>TRANS AM
>RAPE
back to the gutter with your IBO shit

>>14004401
>>TRANS AM
>>RAPE
>SEED shit
>not shit

>>14004363
Mika hasnt had a real fight the entire show. He's fought joke units, faggot pirates and mediocre gjallagoons.

There's no way he can take Setsuna. Especially with Trans Am.

Exia's faster, that's about it. Give him either GN Arms or 00 Raiser and he would win. Barbatos is too durable for Exia and it's actually strong as fuck in melee range. The Gusion fucked up an asteroid like 10 times its size with one swing in episode 12.

Exia would get caved in since the energy of what weapons its armor took is nowhere near that, which would be GN-X's beam rifle. Tripling its power wouldn't increase it to the aforementioned level. I would suggest Repair II when it has GN Sword Kai, but it doesn't have a beam saber mode like 00's GN Swords IIRC. Setsuna can just play keep away until IBO is immobile or attack one of its vulnerable spots, though, couldn't he? Especially if this is post-S1 Setsuna.

>>14004412
>Barbatos is too durable for Exia
GN blades would literally slice the Barbatos like a hot knife through butter.

>>14004412
The Barbatos isn't the Gusion.

>GN arms
>00 Raiser

Both of those are tremendous overkill for IBOverse much less a one on one match with the Barbatos. The Exia is more then capable of crushing it. And that's only going into tech difference, not pilot skill.

>>14004425
Napalm is enough to burn nano-laminate armor. GN blades would be overkill.

>>14004439
Don't forget even 200mm magnetic railgun based linear-guns the Union and AEU use failed to do any actual damage against the Exia, just knocking it around.

This is like asking if Batman could beat Superman without gimping him.

>>14004446
To be fair the OP did say >>14004378 he was thinking purely close ranged melee combat.

>>14004425

Based on? Exia has never cut through armor as good.

>>14004430
>The Barbatos isn't the Gusion.

You're aware Barbatos matched it? So the power it displayed can be applied to Barbatos'. There's displays of power that are getting overlooked while Exia is being overestimated. Even the guns criticized are shown to be able to fragment asteroids several times the size of Gundam with a couple of shots and reduce them to dust in the very same episode.

>>14004458
>Based? Exia has never cut through armor as good.
Based on the principles of GN particles and how it counter attacks beam shields that are more impressive then anything displayed in IBO so far.

>>14004458
>Exia has never cut through armor as good.
he sliced Alejandro's mobile armor to ribbons, and also the gn field of the suit, which is far more advanced than anything in IBO

just suck it down, you are comparing a rustic suit vs one of the most advanced ones, of course the latter will win by simply using trans am and the beam sabers

>>14004460

That's based on the blade being coated with a GN Field on in the first place that allows it to specifically negate GN Fields. You can't honestly think Exia's GN Sword is more potent than GN Arm's GN Cannons, which was deflected by Alvatore's GN Field.

>>14004458
I'm rewatching the Brewers episodes in IBO and all I've seen in terms of ranged weaponry is Mashhiro's body put a handful of small craters in a small asteroid at close range while shooting at Mika.

Also Mika engages the Gusion in close combat without his mace/hammer thing while using his katana and he's not exactly ever "matching" the pirate dude in brute strength.

>>14004495
Its not coated, its completely manipulated by GN particles. That's why the blade is fucking sharp it can rip through GN barriers and mobile suits that are armored like it if not even more so as displayed with Alejandro's own Avalore/Avaalon MA.

Cutting things vastly more durable with the GN blades > IBO's tech level.

>>14004516
*Mashiro's buddy

>>14004495
GN particles greatly increase the cutting ability of the blade in general.

>>14004495
But that's precisely how melee weapons in 00 work with GN technology? They literally made the GN blades and GN sword that the Exia and its successors use by infusing GN particles that make the blades super sharp, as well as not melting from contacting plasma or GN beam technology.

Also iirc GN particles also make metals super light yet durable.

>>14004521

Yep, but this specifically counteracts GN Fields rather than being an exhibition of the power against physical armor.

>>14004516

The instance I was talking about happens at 13:02 of the 12th episode.

>>14004449

What's range got to do with it, Exia has beam sabers too, and beam daggers which Setsuna likes to throw because of GN-Arabian Nights. Physical weapons wouldn't damage Exia to heavily.

>>14004533
>But this specifically counterattacks GN fields rather than being an exhibition of the power against physical armor.
Except it is literally just as effective against non-GN particle infused armors or fields as it is with those that are.

Also episode 13 shows the final fight between the Barbatos and the Gusion being Mika is shredding the Gusion by hitting it but he's never matching it directly in strength. He's basically bleeding the guy dry.

That's enough to tell me it does not have the same level of strength as the Gusion. In fact the guy specifically states Mika is aiming at "the gaps in my armor plates?" in amazement.

>>14004363
Barbatos is a shit tier gundam that would get rekt by the RX-78.

>>14004533
GN particles are infused into the metals they use to construct the blades for the Exia. Those particules make the GN blades super sharp, super durable, and capable of counter-acting and overpowering even GN barriers or other armors that are infused with GN particles themselves.

That's why the Exia is the "trump" card of Celestial Being. Also I don't know why your so hung up about the Gusion when the Exia fights a similar heavy-duty physical mobile suit like Sergei's Tiren early in S1 and wrecks it.

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>>14004533
>The instance I was talking about happens at 13:02 of the 12th episode.
I'm gonna be honest, this looks more like debris from some wrecked old starship then an actual asteroid.

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Exia's operations time greatly outclasses the Barbados. Not to mention its faster.
Worse comes to worse, Setsuna could zoom away, destroy Mika's refueling ship, then fly circles around it, pestering it beam shots.

Strike vs Exia
Which suit is the better First Suit?

>>14004650
Sexia

>>14004650
Exia hands down

>>14004650
the strike is a tanky type of ms built for doing versatile jobs.
The exia on the other hand would look alien compared to it

Couldn't Exia's swords just slash through any sort of club Barbados brings to the table? They're not just regular blades they got all kinds of GN-bullshit

Although to be honest i like IBO's relatively low tech standard, it's a nice change of pace

>>14004663
I like IBO not having beam weapons.

That's literally it. Setting wise I like AD/00 a lot more though.

>>14004700

Flag, Enact and even Tierens > Grazes

How does it feel to be autistic enough for comparison threads?

>>14004791
How does it feel to be autistic enough to make meta shitposts? The thread is fine until you showed up.

>>14004814
You deserve having your fun ruined.

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>>14004363
Fan of IBO here, just for the record

The Exia Gundam is one of the better Gundams out there for close-in fighting, and uses space technology
--The Barbatos is from the first intentional lower-tech Gundam settings.

Exia would quickly and handly defeat Barbatos. hell, most Gundams could. the Barbatos is LITERALLY one of the lowest power Gundams ever by design: part of the cool factor of the mecha is that it's a scavenger mecha.

and, this is without Trans Am mode

also, Setsuna is the closest thing we have to match Mikazuki's cold efficiency. the Exia would be less overkill with another protag' in the seat because Mika is balls enough to use someone's edge/emo against them...

why is this thread still here?

they are 2 entirely different classes.
period.

/thread

>Swords fucking everywhere
>TRANS-AM
>Superior piloting
>Capable of sustained flight hundreds of feet up

Even without TRANS it wouldn't be much of a fight.

>>14004363
doesnt really seem like a fair fight. Its like having a medieval knight fighting against a swordsman from from an advanced future. Exia can fly/hover for near unlimited amount of time while barbatos can run out of fuel, also GN technology is ridiculously advanced with shit like trans-am.

>>14004773

bullshit.

Grazes are stormtrooper level sex

power level aside, Grazes have a cleaner look

>>14004838
>your fun

>>14004363
Exia
Not even a fucking context dude
Let's get a more fair fight. Barbatos versus the Gundam MkII

>>14004663
I imagine it would. I always got the sense that it was one of those Katana folded over 1000 times deals, but it's a broad sword.

Also, lol beam sabers.

>>14004846
What if it was Exia at the start of S2?

This thread reminds why I never liked the 00 suits especially Exia and It's variants.

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>>14004663
This time it'll be Mika dying like this..

>>14004858
Sure I guess Mika would have a chance then but that's like pitting a weaker guy against a stronger guy with one eye and an arm tied behind his back.

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>>14004861
>especially Exia and it's variants
You have no taste, anon. None whatsoever.

Lets be honest the Exia would defeat Barbatos simply due to three reasons its really fast it can hover and that gives better maneuverability and lastly the Beam saber the heat beats the Nanolaminate armor and its light enough to work with the speed to out do the Barbatos and really the Barbatos weapons with the best chance being the Dino wrench and the mace are both unwieldy by comparison

>>14004409
Setsuna in the Exia never had a real fight either until the very end. Most of S1 has him relying entirely on having a machine that's not just ludicrously stronger and faster than his opponents, it also has armor so tough that they literally cannot scratch his paint job.

Exia is the better machine than Barbatos regardless, but in terms of piloting skill there's no way that S1 Setsuna is any better than Mika.

>>14004875
Well I'm going to have to agree with you anon see I took some speed earlier and then broke my period key so I post like this but I think you really nailed the point home on the exia beating barbados by a long shot especially the beam saber part which I forgot about because really even a dino mace can't stand up to beam power so thank you for posting that have a nice rest of your day

>>14004886
He fought Ali multiple times.
He fought Graham multiple times.
He fought Sergei at least once.
He fought the Trinities at least once.
He fought professional soldiers, mercenaries, and PMC groups from the start of season 1.

He had proper fights throughout season 1.

>it also has armor so tough that they literally cannot scratch his paint job

Except they could. Ali overpowered Setsuna in the Enact Custom until that GN Burst thing rebooted his Gundam and he sliced off the Enact Custom's arm.

Was Setsuna aided by his lack of skill with the power and tech advantage? Yes. Did Setsuna fight superior opponents throughout Season 1? Also yes.

>there's no way S1 Setsuna is any better than Mika
Except he is.

>>14004439
ANTI-SHIP napalm will overpower a ship's nano-laminate with enough hits. That's all that was ever said, and by worrywart Biscuit. Not that some hick burger pilot out of Vietnam could drop some napalm and take out Barbatos's defenses.

That said, nano-laminate is basically anti-beam coating worth a damn, it wears off over time. Barbatos fights pretty damn slowly with most of its weapons, and Hyakuren have it a run for its money. Exia will dance around Barbatos and give it a death by a thousand cuts.

>>14004886
>until the very end
So Ali showing up 2/3rds way in Season 1 with the Agrissa/Enact Custom mobile armor and torturing Setsuna to death after smashing him to the ground until Nena showed up to save his ass wasn't a real fight?

>>14004894
Ali, Graham and Sergei could and did hit Setsuna many times, but they never inflicted any visible damage on the Exia. At best they were able to knock it around or grab it, but none of those attacks actually caused it any harm. The one time Ali actually beat Setsuna was when Setsuna had been fighting for hours on end and was exhausted, then got trapped in the electric cage.

The Trinities were even more dependent on their power advantage than the Meisters, so that's not much of a comparison.

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>>14004851

They're alright designs, but they have had little presence and they job pretty hard. Not than 00's grunts don't job, but they have at least one pilot to make them look good same thing can't be said of the Graze. At least not until we see the Psyco Graze in action.

>>14004903
>Sergei could
Go rewatch the fight.
>they never inflicted any visible damage
Ali was going to rip the cockpit open, that's more then merely "scratching the paint", anon.
>The one time Ali actually beat Setsuna was when Setsuna had been fighting for hours on end
He beat Setsuna in every fight they had actually. First time Lockon interferes saving Setsuna's ass from being shot, second time Ali disarms the Exia of its Seven Swords, pins it to the ground and is about to rip open the armor until the GN Burst, third time Ali completely downs the Exia with the Agrissa's speed and power and is torturing him to death with the plasma field and the final time Ali is kicking his ass with the Zwei despite having zero familiarity with its control systems until Trans-AM bullshit is played.

You are wrong.

>The Trinities were even more dependent on their power advantage
That has nothing to do with skill. Which they did exhibit, or at least the two brothers certainly did.

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>>14004907
00 Grunts are extremely impressive compared to most other mooks in Gundam shows, save Wing's being criminally underrated.

>>14004903
Setsuna and Tieria didn't get deployed in the Takamalan Intervention mission at the same time Lockon and Hal/Al were. And I'd consider one being disarmed of all their weapons, pinned to the ground, and only saved by the last minute 11th hour literal DEM in the form of GN Drive doing some wonky shit as "losing" nominally.

>>14004874
Don't get me wrong it's a cool design and even cooler weapons but when everything that makes the suit special is handwaved by saying it's space magical dust it loses all of it's appeal to me.

>>14004363
I haven't kept up with IBO, but where I left off it didn't really do anything the RX-78-2 couldn't do it self.

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>NOW THAT THE DUST HAS SETTLED. . .
Let's have a real powerlevel bread.

EXIA vs. IMPULSE (pick your flavor)
For balance, assume Shinn pilots both against himself, then Setsuna pilots both against himself.
Space or atmosphere, your choice.
>Exhibition round
Feel free to let them go head
I think Shinn wins easily

>>14005011
>Shinn can defeat Shinn
But we saw this happen in GSD already!

>>14004917
To this day this is one of the best activation sequence any gundam ever had

>>14004929
You must really hate UC suits.

Mikazuki is the Kira Yamato of the 2010's

Setsuna doesnt stand a chance.

>>14004363
Mika wins because the fight would be animated by the same staff doing IBO. They'd finish scribbling out the Barbatos, take one look at the Exia, then throw their arms up and leave.

Barbatos VS Nothing
Winner: Barbatos

>>14005049
You can't be serious.

Mika couldn't even take out a full platoon of Carta's flunkies on his own - Grimgerde came in and diced several while Mika offed a couple with the dobergun. The rest flew away, and he got ninja kung-fu fight through the atmosphere.

Kira would just beamspam them all and leave them all alive somehow. They're not even close to the same level.

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>>14005049
>Mikazuki is the Kira Yamato of the 2010's

>>14005054
muh mary sue plot armor

>>14005054
Most of the grunts from Carta's forces or the naval ones were taken out by the two chicks in Fedora kun's harem or Gutts. But you are correct that Mika had little to do with it.

>>14005072
Orga and Biscuit also were one of the reasons why so many of the enemy MS forces were destroyed.

>>14004917
>Wing's (grunts) being criminally underrated.

I am pretty sure if you ask someone who has watched more than 2+ gundam shows not counting W would agree with that statement.

>>14005119

"It's a Gundam!" meme and the mains having the highest kill counts in franchise outside Amuro and Uso distort the view of the grunts.

>>14005138

Grunts are pretty good in Zeta, ZZ, F91 and Victory. Zanscare might have the highest on screen Gundam kill count among all the antagonists.

>>14004363
Even S1 Setsuna shows better feats than Mika

>>14004412
>The Gusion fucked up an asteroid like 10 times its size with one swing in episode 12.
00 Raiser did that while it was on earth.

>>14005162
The successes of others don't make Wing's any less underrated.

>>14005054
So Heero is more Kira with knowing nothing but beam spam, only the buster rifle only had three shots.

At least Setsuna is likeable, Mikazuki is just an edgelord fuckhead

>>14005072
In the land battle, yes, but Mika was staring down their formation in orbit with all the other suits already on the shuttle, and it was Grimgerde that saved him from being bum rushed.

>>14005187

Did it? I remember 00 Raiser cutting an asteroid in half in space. Regardless, 00 Raiser would shit on Barbatos and Gusion at the same time.

>>14005212
Technically, I'm talking about the Memento Mori.

>>14005049
>>14005065
>>14005205

The key thing you're missing is that Mika has barely even BEEN in any battles. What fights he has been in were mostly incredibly brief skirmishes with Akihiro watching his back, and often he got pelted until either someone intervened or he stabbed something. Precious little outside a Graze machinegun has been fired at Barbatos, and he's certainly never had a nuke blow up in his face or taken a flying leap out of an office building only to roll down a bank and immediately get on his feet.

Yes, he's a poorly written character somewhere between autist and sociopath who barely gets used at all in the show he's supposed to be a star of, but it's a real stretch to start comparing him to the death-defying antics or character-based power levels of Kira or Heero.

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>>14004363
>Could Mika in the Barbados defeat Setsuna in the Exia?

One can hope

>>14005218
00 Raiser launched upward past the edge of atmosphere to reach memento mori then cut it

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>>14004917
>not posting the real version

Setsuna would crush Mika, if it were Exia vs. the current form of Barbados.

Exia has not only beam weapons, but one of the primary reasons stated for Barbados' superiority in the series is the fact Mika is plugged into it directly, giving him a much more maneuverability and reaction time in comparison to other machines in the IBO universe. But Exia has Trans-Am, end of story.

Setsuna himself is also equally steel willed so we won't be getting any of that "oh noes he's so savage and real!" stuff surprising Setsuna. Setsuna though is also far better trained.

Like, seriously Exia would absolutely floor Barbados. The technology of 00's world, unless some of that lost war tech in IBO turns out to be incredible or something, is just superior in every way and the pilot's even better.

>>14005096

This is a huge thing that needs to be underlined.

IBO has gone to pretty good lengths to regulate Mobile Suits to a very specific role, to go with its more mundane machines theme I guess. But a lot of battles had Mika basically buying the ship time. It was tactics and strategy that's won most of IBO's battles.

IBO's technology is just not even close to 00's tech, especially as far as Mobile Suits are concerned. At least not at the moment.

>>14005011
Seems like a much closer match than anything against Barbatos.
Unless Blast Impulse manages to take Exia out from long range, I'd say Exia takes it with Trans-Am.

Let's have a real fight:

Setsuna
Heero
Mika
Bellri Zenam

>GMs Only
>Beam Rifle and Saber Only
>City Map
>Battle Royale
>No rules outside those previously stated

>>14005450
Bellri's bloodlust knows no bounds

>>14005450
Hiro's the one who's shown to be most proficient in a grunt mech. Maybe Belri too but I'm not sure.

Mika relies heavily on Alotta Vagina so I'm sure he'd be out first.

>>14005450
Depends at what point they are in their on shows, if its movie Setuna, Ova Heero, last episodes Bellri and right now Mika it would end up being a fight between the autist duo of Setuna and Heero, two who showed to being able to pilot grunt mechs to devastating effect

>>14005450
Setsuna Heero and Mika stare at each other in hostile silence, until Bellri starts shouting about how there's no need to fight.

They promptly kill him, and then form their own godly PMC out of mutual admiration.

>>14005485

Yeah, Bellri isn't anywhere near their level and Mika isn't on Bellri's.

>>14005450

Tie between GundamLover69 and Bellri "I killed my sisters boyfriend and now I'm going to Gundam my penis into her Zaku" Zenam

>>14005509
Thing is he only ever won against people piloting vastly inferior mobile suits and his siter because she is comically incompetent, when MUH KUNTALA fought him with a MS that was more or less on the sametech level he trashed it even when he lost, he really isn't a good pilot, he just had a horrifically overpowered robot

>>14005487
Heero is literally a trained terrorist/assassin from birth thanks to his dad.

>>14005592
Setsuna was a child soldier under Ali, Mika was a child soldier in CGS.

>>14005400
On paper IBO's style of fighting sounds more interesting than 00 but in reality the shit animation ruins it

>>14005764
>Mika was a child soldier in CGS
He's nowhere as competent as Heero or Setsuna though.

>>14005782
How is it more interesting? Even if it was well animated all you see guys like Mika in the Barbatos do is fly/dash toward their enemies and try to bash them to death or stab them to death.

Its pretty cut and dry generic stuff outside of a lack of beam weaponry. Even in 00 you at least had Setsuna, Ali, and Graham, pulling spins, acrobatic feats, hover dash close combat, and what not.

>>14005806
Well Turn A did it good with having physical weapons and stuff in fights, or even the original gundam

>>14005450
Mika doesn't know how to operate a GM since he's illiterate and doesn't have the AV to carry him.
Bellri takes him out with a beam shot to cockpit while shouting some tominoisms.
Setsuna attacks Bellri as an armed intervention.
Heero activates self destruct. Minovsky reactor creates nuclear explosion destroying all the GMs.

>>14005817
Original Gundam had Amuro pulling wrestling and judo moves and being a dirty fighter. None of that is apparent in IBO, regardless of animation quality.

>>14004363
Setsuna floats above him and shoots him until dead. Even if it takes all day, he can just do that because nothing Barbatos does will hit a flying Exia if it dodges a little (Which it will, Exia's fucking fast).

Let's not get into Trans Am, which would allow Exia to just sort of spam hit and run attacks and then (when about to run out) fly up to a ludicrous height to negate the recharge.

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Hey guys, what do you think if Mika will fight this guy?

Ali will use the following suits'
1st round: Uses an AEU Enact
2nd round: Throne Zwei
3rd round: Arche Gundam

Mika will fight in his beloved Barbatos

>>14005487
>until Bellri starts shouting about how there's no need to fight.
>Until Bellri fires a warning shot and kills both of them
FTFY

>>14005948

>What is 'would be on land'.

>>14006115
Exia can fly though...

>>14005487
Mika is way to feral at this point. Heero and Setsuna at least had control of their emotions.

>>14006119
Did you even read the OP.

>>14004363
>To keep it fair: the hypothetical match would be on land.

>>14006132
Do you even brain bruh?

Did the OP stated that they cannot use their thrusters and GN drives?

>>14006154
What would be the point of specifying on the ground if it wasn't meant to be a melee ground based battle? In space would suit Barbatos better than ground anyway since it can move the same ways as Exia in space.

>>14006160

Depends on how you want it to happen. OP didn't elaborate his rules.

But still you can still use hovering or gain some lift for advantage from the enemy and still considered a land battle. Land battle means battling in environment with gravity, Earth, Moon, Mars, you name it.

Also you just assume that it is a melee only battle just because it is the forte of the two but they have guns and can use it and it will still be considered a "land battle".

Either way, unless Setsuna won't use his brain against Mika and avoid to suffer trauma like Carta, if he did he would win.

Don't forget that Exia is made of special type of E carbon, more durable than yo momma's ass. So it won't be squashed into a pulp.

>Setsuna goes Trans-am and rapes Mika
/thread.

>>14006218
*unless Setsuna use his brain...

damn it

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>>14005450

The GN blade sliced Union Flag's swords, which use high frequency vibrations.

Meanwhile Barbatos use a katana and can barely slice through shit.

>>14006218
I think that's one the details people are missing here Carta died of blunt trauma from the consecutive beatings from Mika and Exia's armor wouldn't protect Setsuna from it.

>>14006274
>and Exia's armor wouldn't protect Setsuna from it.
Doesn't need to when he can escape and evade the hits.

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What about this
>No beam weapon
>Direct limb control

>>14004841
you dumb fuck the barbatos is the 8th strongest gundam in IBO based on ranking. read up on Ars Goetia you fuck. the 72 gundams are based off of the Ars Goetia demons.kimaris is just a low ranking knight. not saying that the barbie would beat the exia but reasoning is completely off

>>14004917

00 Grunts probably have the most combat experience as well, living in a second Cold War. There'll be proxy wars all over the place, which would allow for plenty "Soviet pilots in Korean MiGs" type scenarios.

Compare that to Zeon's pilots in MSG, they scarcely had to face (captured) mobile suits before the Gundam was rolled out.

>>14005162
Victory Gundams are mass produced so you can't really call that an accomplishment. Especially since they have cardboard armor.

>>14005581
Mask in the final episode fought Bellri when he wasn't even at top condition.

>>14005375
I actually think that it's going to be some Dune tier shit.
The lost tech is something that was used on/being tested on Ein now.
That's litterally Char form IBO's end goal.

As a matter of fact, I honestly believe that the lost tech is more then likely MGS OG tier stuff combined with some really dirty cybernetics/xenogears and wetware stuff. Real fucking bodyhorror shit.
Mainly because the tech that's used with the gundam frame is so advanced and prickly that it requires that it direct links to the pilots body and brain to work correctly.

The whole "threw away their humanity" thing goes directly to that.
How good they are in what is considered out of date or even crap suits in their universe simply because of what very well might be a shitty cheap backroom version of the ajra varjra system says that the technology from back then may have been monsterous both in power and what they had to do with the pilot to get that level of power.

The undrlying theme, whether they realize it or not, is what war does to the soldiers and how they are being slowly but surely transformed into living weapons.

One of the things in the series might be a basic beam sword so advanced that it can't be duplicated at all.

>>14004902
>getting the drop on a sleep-deprived pilot and hitting him with a plasma field that's got his suit disabled and is slowly killing him
>real fight

No. An execution, maybe, but not a fight.

>>14004368
nano laminate also seems to come off

is mika even really that good a pilot?
i mean his fight style doesnt really seem to involve anything other than brute strength, he ditched that katana saying that it was too difficult for him to use. Also theres the fact that he's triple pentrated by the av system whilst 99% of his enemies arent using it putting them at a massive disadvantage right of the bat

>>14006282
What can happen will happen.

>>14006274
Yep. Unless CB's Gundams has a shock absorbing mechanism to protect him from shock.

Remember the episode where Setsuna and co. we're bombarded with tons bombs from 3 economic power blocks for almost a day? Gundams we're able to make it if only pilot fatigue came in.

Not to mention that Carta's not wearing a helmet (also no seat belts I presume) during her battle with Mika.

Not saying impossible but just came up to my mind after writing my reply to another guy.

>>14006005
Ali would rape Mika to death.

>>14005450
mika ain't shit without the jav system, he can't even read, even a gm would be beyond him. and he certainly wouldnt know what to do with a beam rifle or beam sabre, you cant mash shit with that
he's fucked

Exia can and will rape Barbatos all day every day.

But Mika is not Setuna who is dumb enough to get out of the cockpit in the heat of battle just to greet Ali. And unlike Setsuna who can only claim that he is Gundam, Mika just goes and merge with his Gundam and he doesnt even make a big deal about it.

>>14006523
He's been training and running practice simulations on the hyakuren machines ever since they met the turbines and those don't have AV systems in them.

>>14006523
If we're talking S1 Setsuna then he was pure garbage too.

>>14006547
What's this nonsense? Setsuna can throw daggers and blades to match fangs/bits and pull off outrageous maneuvers. He managed to face off Aces even when outnumbered. The meisters wouldn't be chosen if they couldn't be the part.

>>14006523

He learned to read and write to some degree already and figured out a katana quickly. He just didn't care for that style of fighting. Mika is at a disadvantage since he's the only one to have unfamiliar technology to get to grips with (beams), but it'd probably be Heero regardless.

>>14006451
>Exia flies away and starts shooting
>Barbatos can't hit

>>14006274
>Carta died of blunt trauma from the consecutive beatings from Mika and Exia's armor wouldn't protect Setsuna from it.
Tomino already solved the issue: install airbags.

>>14006591
Tomino did but AU designers are stupid enough not to put one in their MS.

>>14006591
Its not like a airbag will help you when you're in the middle of a beatdown from a gundam as Marida, Angelo and some other pilots in Unicorn can can atest

>>14006698
>as Marida, Angelo and some other pilots in Unicorn can can atest
They didn't die because of the beatdown though.

>>14004405
Not really.
SEED mode is the pilot getting a power-up from themselves and, as far as we can tell, has no set limitations.
Trans-Am is the suit itself powering up for a short period of time.

It's more akin to something like BD's EXAM System or G-Unit's PX System.

>>14006274

Exia won't get hit by such a slow, clumsy weapon. Setsuna is a pretty hardy guy anyway given he survived the abuse Exia took at the end of S1.

>>14006736
But when Marida was taken out of her MS she was bedridden, the airbags are made to stop sudden impacts not continuous attacks

>>14004363
The GN techonology is stupid OP for melee.

>>14004381
Miles is fighting for his own interest

He wants to build a utopia for himself

Setsuna is completely selfless to the point he no longer wants to be considered human.

Sure he strays and is influenced by his past in ways but in the end he does what he feels right for EVERYONE. Not just the people looking after his interests

>>14006809
Mika ** fucking auto correct

>>14005450
http://gundam.wikia.com/wiki/CBNGN-003_Union_Flag_Celestial_Being_Version

Setsuna also has experience in mook suits

>>14004363
where can I find that kind of photos?

>>14007026

So does Heero, though his presence makes them slightly less mooky.

>>14007026
Holy shit, so he used a vanilla flag with the only change being the GN Sword, not even a GN drive or anything, goddamn

>>14006561
Your points are okay, but! Setsuna was chosen by evil Amuro, not Veda. And it shows, he's the shittiest gundam pilot at the start of S1

>>14007045
Gundam mechanical file.

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>>14004851

Don't you fucking shittalk the Flag you unAmerican piece of space refuse.

>>14005162
Grunts are also really underrated in Unicorn.

>>14004856

If Kamille is piloting it, he wins. If Emma is piloting it, Mika wins.

>>14004907

Someone shop a MAGA hat on Graham.

>>14004363
They both would bore at each other with their hollow personalities before even thinking about tear apart the other.

Setsuna: I'm Gundam, you're Gundam, no attack...
Mika: Should I attack him, Orga?

>>14005450

Bellri could do it in a Recten with minimal weapons.

>>14005491

Didn't Bellri fuck up a Gundam in a shitty grunt MS?

>>14005882

Amuro is OP.

>>14008027

Not only wasn't the Gundam responding correctly, Aida was the pilot. And he would've still got his shit pushed in if G-Self wasn't reacting towards him.

>>14006005

Ali wins because he's fucking based.

>>14007588
Setsuna still had to be approved by Veda itself since at the time Ribbons didn't have any control over it

>>14007588
Pretty sure both regular Hal and Tieria were the actual shittiest pilots in season 1. I think between the Meisters and Trinity's it went from best to worst:

Lockon/Neil > Hal > Al = Setsuna > Johan = Michael > Nena > Tieria.

>>14008220
*regular Al

>>14004929
http://z11.invisionfree.com/gundam00/index.php?showtopic=699

>>14007391
Not just that. He uses a vanilla Flag in the era of GN-XIVs and kills shit with it. If we're talking Trailblazer Setsuna who's already an Innovator inside Exia vs Mika in Barbatos, Mika's fucking dead.

>>14007588
At the start of, yes, but by the end he's a much better pilot. That's why he was able to take on Alejandro Corner immediately followed by Graham Aker and definitively win both fights (Graham damaged him, but he destroyed the GN Flag and scarred Graham, that's his win.)

>>14008231
Aker vs Setsuna at the end of season 1's fight was a literal stalemate.

>>14008231

Alejandro was a scrub, though. He just had a decent machine, Alvaaron, that was comparable to Exia.

>>14008248

Exia was also the better suit and Graham's only weapon that would deal damage was a beam saber.

>>14008385
>Alejandro was a scrub
Subjective: background fluff states he used to be a veteran MS pilot in the AEU military.
>He just had a decent machine.
The machine wasn't everything. And Lasse's aid with the GN arms played a major part in him beating Alejandro.
>Exia was also a better suit
Yes, and the Exia was powered down from over-taxing the Trans-AM system and Graham was using his Over-Flag Custom that couldn't transform, had no ranged weapons, still managed to stalemate Setsuna given the tech difference and other factors.

Setsuna didn't win.

>>14006817
Miles wouldn't be a terrible dubname.

>>14004902
That's more of a one way beating than a fight.

>>14008231

Flags are indisputably the best grunt mech ever.

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>>14008231
>Setsuna
>indisputably beat Graham at the end of S1.

Exia was nonfunctiinal too, Setsuna just fixed some of the damage between S1 and S2. He tied with a fucking FLAG.

Why are tripfags such drooling cretins? Why do they hate America?

>>14008395

Being AEU proves he's a scrub, though.

>>14008638
The only other two characters who were against CB and were AEU were Ali and Patrick. Neither of those two are scrubs, so nah.

>>14008852
>Patrick
>Not a scrub

Quattro_Bajeena.jpg

>>14008862
He trounced Tieria more then once and survived shit no other pilot would.

>>14008870

He did get shot down by Tieria when it was 2 on 1 during the S1 finale in a pretty chump way.

>>14005450
I'm gonna go with Hiro on this one, but Bellri is as bloodlusty as Mika. Setsuna really depends on his suit's OP stats, even when after all his training.

>>14008870

Tieria likes it when boys hit him, so what?

>>14008870
No he didn't. He always lost to a healthy Tieria and Tieria sucks anyway.

>>14005487
>I've never watched Reconguista
That's what I read.

>>14008870
>>14008886

Am I the only one who legitimately thought Tieria was a girl with a weird voice for a while?

>>14006274
The Barbatos would never be able to touch Exia. I'm telling you, that shit is fast as fuck.

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>>14008852

Ali isn't even AEU, though. He's a Kurdish terrorist-turned-mercenary.

Patrick is, as has been established, actually a scrub. The entire AEU is scrubs, just like in real life. Also the Enact is a shitty piece of shit compared to the glorious Flag.

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>>14008904
>Enact is a shitty piece of shit compared to the glorious Flag.
Except the Enact is superior to the Flag in every way and Ali did more with a non-GN enhanced Enact then Graham did with the Flag and Over-Flag.

>>14008876
And so? Tieria also got played like a scrub by him after his first encounter with the Gundam Meisters like getting boxed in like a bitch.

>>14008896
Yeah. I firmly believed that Tieria was a chick who was binding her tits and using a voice changer for months.

>>14008926

The point is they're both scrubs. They would get their shit pushed in by episode 7 Kamille.

>>14008896
Because Tieria is an androgynous not-female bio-engineered human computer terminal who may or may not have temporarily grown tits in S2.

>>14008880
>Setsuna really depends on his suit's OP stats
Nice meme.

>>14005846
Heero manages to survive somehow despite being at the epicenter of the explosion so I guess Heero wins.

>>14008896
Xe's genderfluid you shitlord

>>14005882
Whenever Tomino is on board the fights are good, I don't know if the director also oversees fights but coincidentally fights in 0079, Zeta, CCA, Victory and F91 are better than the rest of it.
It seems like he really thinks about what mobile suits can do and applies it to fights, this was evident in Greco.

>>14009067
>Zeta
Ehhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

>>14009073
For a 50-episodes series done in 85' Zeta fights are great, the mobile suits are made faster and deadlier and they really bring that point home with the one-hit kills and the dodging being prevalent all the time.
It's not as good as some fights in SDF Macross but even then it's a different kind of war.

>>14008925
>Ali did more with a non-GN enhanced Enact then Graham did with the Flag and Over-Flag
Well, yeah. It's Ali, fabulous he, Ali-Al Saachez. The fucker made a sniper want revenge on him.

>>14009084
Most of Zeta's fights were dodge and shoot or dodge and slash. The fight choreography in Zeta for most of the series was pretty fucking generic compared to 0079 and ZZ.

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>>14009124

That's why I enjoyed ZZ better. You had a lot of colorful characters doing entertaining stuff and fighting in different ways.

And Haman kicked ass in an Accuguy.

>>14008925
>Superior in everyway

Enact is just a copy of Flag, though Ali is the only one who used the suit to its full potential. Give him a flag and your Gundams would like look like mooks.

>>14009132
>Enact is just a copy of the Flag
The Flag is just a copy of the Hellion.

>>14009132
You realize that by virtue of being a design copy, the Enact can do everything Flag can do, right?

Well no, there's one difference. That bigger head antennae. You know, the one that can recieve energy transmissions? Enabling Enacts to be nigh inexhaustible while within AEU territory?

>>14009159
I think the Enacts have that advantage in any area that has an Orbital Elevator actually, not just specifically the AEU's own ones. In fact, how would Flags and Enacts (sans GN equipped units) compare to the mobile suits in IBO?

>>14009159
The same goes for Flags, and other solar powered suits. They have limitless power of supply as long as they're near the space elevator.

Also A having one advantage to B doesn't make A superior to B in everyway.

>>14009135
Not exactly because Helions cannot transform on their own.

>>14009185
They would trounce anything on IBO, remmeber that Graham on a Flag managed to drive off the Thrones

>>14009221
He fought 1 Throne and cut off an arm and nearly died doing it. If Yohan wasn't being lazy and caught off guard that could have went way differently.

>>14009225
He nearly died because he tried to match the speed of movement of the Throne and since they can barely hover in IBO it would consist mostly of Graham flying around and power tackling Mika like he did with Lockon 1.0 and Setsuna on ocasion

>>14009185
Generally speaking, because Flag/Enact are flight types that can stay in the air with ease, they can just hang up out of reach. But it's a question as to how their linear rifles and plasma sabers perform against nano-laminate.

If they were forced into a ground-based melee, it'd be a matter of the thicker, more armored Graze body vs. the spindly flight-type body. We'd be right back to Exia v. Barbatos to some degree in that you'd be pitting speed against strength.

>>14009198
Flag was specifically based off and inspired from the Hellion. Hence why Billy corrects and calls out Graham for getting upset over the AEU doing the same with the Flag to develop the Enact in the first place.

>>14009245
The Throne barely moved. Yohan was lazy as fuck in that exchange.

Kimaris may be fast enough for some of the non Gundam suits. Barbatos is slow as shit and the Grazes barely get any screen time but don't seem particularly fast.

>>14004363
Barbados has so many wires exposed
Also Im sure the Gundam have a similar system that picks brainwaves for better reaction time in 00.
It's like the Alayala system without the drawback of needing a surgery
not just that, Sexia has TransAM

>>14009249
Those spindly bodies require at least 60mm grade railgun styled linear-rifles to damage. Despite their anorexic slim-appereances, they are actually toughter and more durable then you're giving them credit.

Also they iirc already had plasma based melee weapons, sonic weapons, and the AEU and Union were both already progressing toward beam weapons given Graham's reaction to Setsuna pulling out a beam saber early in 00 S1 when they first fought.

>>14009225
Graham nearly died from disengaging all the compensators and safety inhibitors to push the speed and acceleration tolerance of his Over-Flag Custom beyond the human endurance limits.

>>14004368
I thought they didn't use beam weapons because the Laminate armor made them useless?

>>14009131
ZZ fights were dodge and shoot or dodge and slash. Only with occasional moments of incredible incompetence from both sides.

>>14009292
Only Seed do that and it's installed only for ships.

In IBO, laminated armor is effective only against bullets

. Which is i think BS because a gun which exert more force to make bullets pass through your skull and still can't damage a MS while using a blunt object and you can smash a suit into pulp in one stroke.

>>14009587
laminated armor and nano-laminate armor aren't the same thing.

http://pastebin.com/mUXp6QD6

Laminated armor dissipates the energy of beam weapons fire impact by spreading out the heat energy across the surface of the armor rather than letting it focus on a single spot.

Nano-laminate armor refers to some kind of armor material that is apparently super dense, heat resistant (resisting heat is not the same as absorbing heat and redirecting it) and manipulated/constructed on a molecular scale. Covenant ships and vehicles in Halo universe have that as armor.

A team of 3 Grazes vs a team of 3 Union Flags, deployed in Flight Mode

>>14009628
Apparently in IBO, nano-laminate is applied as a paint. It can be mixed, and the usual strategy to defeat it is to chip it off with bullets and substance melee. It's the explanation for why there aren't any beam weapons, because it's just so widespread it makes them pointless.

Even more when you consider that it reacts to the Ahab waves coming from the reactors, and the more reactor output, the more waves, the stronger the resistance becomes.

>>14009769
And oddly, a legitimate strategy for attacking ships coated in it is to use napalm and burn it off.

>>14009587
Its only really effective against bullets from long range to be specific.

>>14009784
has there been an instance in IBO of a gun being used at point blank range to good effect?

>>14009769
I don't even recall there being any mention of beam weapons at all, as if they can't develop an effective enough version to bother using

>>14009878
There hasn't been a mention in the show itself. It's one of those 'the staff said it in an interview" things.

>>14009779
Well napalm is heat, and it burns for a fair while. It'll probably wear off like anything else in that situation. But just as you don't see or hear mention of beam weapons, you also don't see or hear mention of suit-mounted napalm. One would think if it were easy to do, every Graze would be toting napalm grenades or flamethrowers.

>>14009687
>Flags deploy napalm bombs to Grazes.
>Using smoke and fire as concealment, Flags engages in CQC .
>Stabs Graze cockpit (bottom part)
>???
>Win!!!!

>>14006005
Guy literally only lost because he's allergic to Irish fags. He went from 1v2ing CB treating them like chumps to getting dunked in melee combat by two pistols from a sniper Gundam. If that isn't plot induced retardation I don't know what is in /m/. Everything else kinda makes sense so long as you suspend you disbelief, but this guy always takes it up the ass when a Lockon is around.

Maybe we should just get Ireland to take down ISIS.

>>14010260
My suspension of disbelief was pretty much gone while Lockon 1.0 was holding his own and even at times overwhelming Ali in close combat in season 1's finale despite missing one eye and Ali being undisputed king of close combat.

But in season 2 if it makes you feel better, Cherudim was built more like a mid-range gunslinger suit then a sniper suit and those GN pistols doubled as hatchets/axes; though I agree it was still even bigger bullshit since Lockon 2.0 is relatively inferior in every way to his older twin.

Though more or less he still only won because when Tieria and Regene turned off Veda, it shut off the Arche completely, which is why Ali ends up losing the fight. Not because of Lyle's skills, but because he is literally fucked over by his suit's connection to Veda because Ribbons is a paranoid faggot.

>>14006313
Not him, but I believe he's trying to compare Barbatos in the scale of all Gundam series. Yes, in the context of IBO, Barbatos is strong, but not in the context of all Gundam series.

>>14008935

Kamille is a ridiculously good pilot.

>>14009159

Most Chinese cars are copies of American, German, and Japanese cars...but they aren't as good. Face it, even in the future the EU is balls.

>>14009159

Shitty copies are still copies.

>>14009259

He seemed more mocking than upset.

>>14011027
That's not what I read from it.

>>14010183
Don't even standard Flags have plasma sabers?

>>14010279
Well it was either that or Setsuna would have to summon kebab ghosts to destroy Ali's suit. Which option did you wanna pick?

>>14011020

Who cares both Flags and Enacts are still fodder, with nothing much of value to their mass produced versions.

Ironically enough it's the fat chink Tieren that had something to offer. Papa Bear in a single one could match Exia's strength pound for pound for a good half a minute. All you had to do was dogpile the guy with them. That part in the desert where two of them were in the trenches? Just dogpile them from every direction, they are already cut off on two fronts. Even if the pilots die it's not like exploding is gonna reduce mass by 90% or some shit.

And before anyone dares to claim they are too slow, let me remind you that a certain sniper was missing these same fat pieces of shit flying in space towards him in a straight line, simply because he lost a leg.

>>14012895
>Flags and Enacts
>fodder
They were top of the line MS that had better weapons, better performance, and better uptime then anything the HRL could put out.

>>14012826
Yep that's why Grazes suck. Old tech impractical shit. Even a terrorist mudslim can down a Graze using RPG. Their reactor are pretty much exposed.

>>14012895
Kek. Not really, they're too goddam slow (admit it) and they rely on electricity engine. The have short operation time and they suck.

Basically a Tiger tank fitted with legs.

Complete mismatch. Short of getting a lucky shot with that slow Oni club thing, Mika would be completely outclassed. I don't think the question is really a fair one until the end of the season and we see if he gets any newtype-like powers that would put him in a position to repel Setsuna in the event he uses transam/awakens/bothers to use his hover function.

>>14011008

Yeah, but he gets much better by even the middle of the show and he wasn't half the newtype he was during the finale. I'd say Kamille is better than every pilot in 00.

>>14014576
Well the faggot had already special powers. Having Allah-vagina system makes his reaction time better and faster than the others, it's like your body is the Gundam itself.

True disadvantage is the suit cause it sucks. Better put Mika in a GN-X and make the cockpit compatible to him (He need to fight the Innovade Setsuna though to make it fair) and let's see the fight happens.

>>14014867
>GN-X
>not Masurao

>>14009194
Uh, no actually. Last I checked, Flags are built to be deployed around the world and in space, to be American world police, so they don't have that tech because they can't rely on being close enough to an elevator for it to be worthwhile.

But by the same token, the AEU is way behind on finishing its tower, so it can't use the tech in its own territory yet. Were it to have finished the tower, and gotten beam weapons, it could have had an advantage at least for a while. But that's a bunch of ifs, and the points were made moot with the sudden introduction of GN Drives.

>>14014902
Kind of typical. Europoors busy selling old weapons to terrorists and still not being able to pay their bills. Americans busy giving away old weapons to ally countries that then use them counter to American interests.

The disparity here is that the GN Drive is well-developed and fully-weaponized while the Ahab Drive might as well be a pair of AA batteries for the Barbatos, for all the effect is has on every offensive and defensive system.

As of the most current episode, unless Mika learns Ahab Hadouken, all that supposed power is sitting there doing nothing.

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>>14014902
Tieren were the best. That's why they got to have GN Drives.

>>14014864
That's a stretch. He only beat Yazan with bullshit NT powers where as you have guys like Ali, Neil and Lyle keeping up with Innovators, Innovades, Not-Cyber Newtype expies, and Super Soldiers as normal humans in terms of skill.

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>>14015044
>He only beat Yazan with bullshit NT powers

I never said he was better than Yazan. He's better than all the guys you mentioned, too. NTs at Kamille level while discounting psyco fields are far superior to Innovades and Super Soldiers in psychic ability. Setsuna as an Innovator doesn't compare either.

Lyle, seriously?

This is complete overkill. For example, late OYW Amuro in the RX-78-2 would probably be able to take on the Barbatos without too much trouble. Beam sabers and the beam rifle would almost certainly be too much to handle.

>>14015056
>Muh UC pilots are the best meme
Epic.

>>14015056
>I never said he was better than Yazan.
You implied it pretty hard, dude.
>He's better than all the guys you mentioned, too.
Doubtful. Outside of his NT powers, I'm more impressed by the likes of Yazan, Ali, Aker, Lockon 1.0, Descartes, and Ribbons for example.
>NTs at Kamille's level
That's not piloting skill, that's just NT power levels your bringing up. And to be fair, if you put Setsuna in the Qan[t]a at his best as a fully evolved Innovator, Kamille is going to get his shit pushed him.

Not the same anon but the fact that we have aces with skills shown such as with Aker, Neil, Lyle, and Ali keeping up with enhanced physically superior and genetifically modified pilots like the Super Soldiers (Hal/Al + Soma/Marie), Innovades (Revive, Anew, Hillings, Stabbity, Trinity Siblings, etc...), or otherwise is a pretty damn impressive feat.

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>>14014971
Tell that to my GN Flag.

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>>14015092
Super Pilot a best

>>14015086
different guy here:
I'm not remotely a UC purist, but the only people who can out-bullshit high-level NT are Gundam Fighters. The Meisters were shown to be highly trained and extremely capable, but Kamille and Judau pulled some "impenetrable ghost-powered force field" bullshit. Kamille took direct control of the Zeta with his mind, and later Judau reassembled the ZZ with his mind. Both were seen to massively boost the power of their beam sabers via psychic power (and in Judau's case the beam saber was even completely out of power).

Girard Spriggan from AGE comes close because she NTD'd the fannels from three different enemy mobile suits while not even wearing her psi-booster-thingy.

Granted, in terms of spatial awareness, reflexes, control, etc the Innovade, X-Rounder, Coordinator, and Newtype are roughly equivalent, but there's also the LOLNEWTYPEHAX that none of the other shows touched. Except for G, of course. Master Asia could beat up the entire Gundam Team from any other show with just a scarf, but that's a whole other argument.

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>>14015092
>You implied it pretty hard, dude.

Saying he's a better newtype in the finale than the beginning isn't implicit of his piloting ability compared to others in the series. Scirocco is explicitly stated to be a better pilot in the end. The point was that the increased ability factor into his sensing and reaction speed, much like if I compared Setsuna at the end to the middle of S2.

>>14015092

>That's not piloting skill, that's just NT power levels your bringing up.

Sure, but you were linking skill level with beating psychics in 00, implying Lyle was impressive because he fought Innovades. Innovades can't do much without a tech advantage and typically beat on Tieria who sucks despite being an Innovade. Now, you're doing it explicitly, which makes your objection more questionable.

>"Without their support system, the Innovators don't have a lot going for them."

And Lyle proceeds to beat the Gadessa while his machine's falling apart and Hal just bullies Garazzo. Ribbons was fine and lazily put down Arios while fighting Setsuna. Innovades have no real impressive feats in reaction speed or awareness. Why would beating them be indicative of high skill? Anew was only in one fight, wasn't she? Ali's impressive because of things like beating on Setsuna in an Enact and winning against 00 and Seravee at once. Neil for his showing against Ali with one working eye while going melee in Dynames. Setsuna being spent out, getting shot in the air, and still dodging Ali and his fangs with the barest of movement? Impressive, even Ali thought so. Soma's actual performance against Virtue in a Tieren and one of thrones in GN-X is what makes her look good in S1, not the simple fact she's a super soldier.

>>14015092
>if you put Setsuna in the Qan[t]a at his best as a fully evolved Innovator,

Obviously, but that wasn't the point. When do Innovades sense hostile intent from tens of kilometers away? That's what I'm talking about. Setsuna and Descartes are far beyond Innovades.

>>14015181
>Saying he's a better newtype in the finale than the beginning isn't implict of his piloting ability compared to others in the series.
That's not what you said:
>"He's better than all you guys mentioned, too."
He, being Kamille, then you further moved and stretched what was being argued contextually by bringing up NT powers. You aren't being honest here.
>Innovades can't do much without a tech advantage.
Patently untrue.
>typically beat on Tieria who sucks despite being an Innovade
Tieria was only a shitty pilot in Season 1.
>linking skill level with beating psychics in 00
No, I was linking the performance and feats regular human aces in 00 showed even compared with physically/genetically/psychically superior pilots in the same universe.
>Lyle proceeds
Jobbing.
>Hal bullies Garazzo
While nearly dying from it.
>Innovades have no real impressive feats in reaction speed or awareness.
Utterly nonsensical. They are completely superior in those areas to normal human.

>When do Innovades sense hostile intent from tons of kilometers away?
When do Newtypes do this and still not get shanked by people like Yazan? Its irrelevant.

>>14015181
Lyle jobbed both fights against Ali and Revive. Hal got pretty fucked up fighting Hillings, and both of these are after the two Innovades are disconnected from Veda while Celestial Being doesn't just take that from them but gains Veda completely back in turn.

Not only that but I don't remember Kamille doing much of anything late in Zeta in terms of legitimately out-piloting better pilots himself. He won against Yazan solely on the basis of bullshit Newtype powers manifesting themselves and he does the same against Scirocco.

So why is this evidence of Kamille being more impressive when people who are his peers or superiors to him are never defeated by him when it comes to skill or technique and solely brute NT power?

>>14015160
>Master Asia could beat up the entire Gundam Team from any other show with just a scarf

Fuck yeah! G Gundam all the way baby!!!

>>14015228
Simply because Newtype abilities can be counted as a skill.

>>14015244
No they can't.

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>>14015086

They pretty much are, but I'm not saying 00's very best aren't comparable. You got people doing that in their first sortie.

>>14015213

>You aren't being honest here.

I was talking about Yazan there. My image was meant to be indicative of Yazan's ability where he makes one of the Chimera Corps his bitch. Plus, I specifically said "in psychic ability."

>Tieria was only a shitty pilot in Season 1.

I see no substantial improvement to not call him shit. Even in S1, he was capable of tactics, but he continually looks like scrub and jobs.

>Patently untrue.

Prove otherwise. When Garazzo first shows up, Setsuna comments on its speed and strength. It even cut through 00's GN Sword II. After that showing, there's just jobbing for the most part when not fighting against a rusty Al, who comments on this, and Tieria.

>>14015213
>They are completely superior in those areas to normal human.

That's not my point. Sure, but that doesn't say much when you just compare them to grunts or compare them to another universe. It's not like they're beating Graham or Ali.

>>When do Newtypes do this and still not get shanked by people like Yazan? Its irrelevant.

The point was that NTs are superior in sensing. Yazan is impressive because he can beat Kamille, it doesn't just discount their ability. This is particularly hypocritical since you're using regular humans being able to beat super humans as an example. I was just doing the same.

>While nearly dying from it.
>Jobbing

They lost badly and there's a reason. They were already losing to Setsuna while double teaming him while being baffled by his ability.

>>14015244
>Newtype abilities can be counted as a skill
That's fine just not as a piloting one.

>>14015312
>They were already losing to Setsuna while double teaming while being baffled by his ability.
Not in the last episodes of S2, that was only the first time 00 Raiser debuted.

>>14015312
>I was talking about Yazan there.
Then you need to be more clear cut on who you are talking about you vague fucker.
>I see no substantial improvement
Then you are blind as a bat, Tieria improves enough by season 2 that he can keep up with Ali in close combat despite the limitations of his own suit not being suited for that kind of close combat role. That's an improvement by any stretch, you pedantic fuck.
>Prove otherwise.
I already did. What about the basic factoid as well that any of the Innovades are superior pilots to people like Captain Zinn who was schooling Setsuna early in S2.

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>>14015228
>Kamille doing much of anything late in Zeta in terms of legitimately out-piloting better pilots himself

He pretty much brushes Jerid aside, something he wasn't capable of doing before like that. Jerid is someone who's underestimated as a pilot, even in the beginning when he learns to mimic newtype spatial awareness from Lila. Kamille made her, a OYW veteran, look like chump while making use of the environment in the beginning of Zeta.

>>14015228
>Lyle jobbed both fights against Ali

What stands about Lyle against Ali is Arche's armor becoming weaker.

>Hal got pretty fucked up fighting Hillings

No, he didn't.

>>14015331
>he can keep up with Ali in close combat

That explains why Ali was beating him and Setsuna at once.

>vague fucker
>pedantic fuck

What's the point in getting hostile? We're just having fun here. I specifically said "too" when making the statement, indicating another person than Kamille.

>>14015348
>Arche's armor becoming weaker.
No, you gigantic mongoloid. When Veda was disconnected from Ribbon's control, Ali's suit was shut down. The fact that Lyle is already inferior in every way to Neil and still holding his own is the pinnacle of bullshit and jobbing.

This is further pointed out when Ali is sitting in the Arche yelling "What is going on?" after his suit is shut down.

>No, he didn't.
Yes, he did you dolt. Look at the damage done to Arios after his fight with Hillings.

>That explains why Ali beating him and Setsuna at once.
I said "keep up" with Ali, I didn't say he was winning, you incomprehensible moron. The connotations of my earlier statement and his display on screen show he improved enough not to get instantly slaughtered by Ali in close combat with a suit not made for that sort of niche role is only further indicative of his improvement as a pilot.

Stop acting like an ass.

>>14015348
>He pretty much brushes Jerid aside
That's supposed to be impressive?
>something he wasn't capable of doing before like that
That's supposed to be impressive?
>Jerid is someone who's underestimated as a pilot
Not really.
>Newtype spatial awareness from Lila
Never happened in the TV series, sounds like something from ANT which isn't canon.
>Kamille made her, a OYW veteran, look like a chump
He didn't do that and considering how early this was in Zeta and the toll it showed on Kamille mentally, that wasn't an easy win for him either.

Your exaggerating.

>>14006462
If you think about it, Ali probably saw a shitload of kids like Mika when he was fucking around in the Middle East. If he didn't shit on Mika like a champ no one could.

>>14015360
>No, you gigantic mongoloid

I was talking about before his suit shut down. Arche has taken no damage against stronger weapons than Cherudim's pistols and then it blows off its arm off. I never said Ali didn't job.

>you incomprehensible moron

Someone getting schooled 2 to 1 isn't really "keeping up" in my eye. It's a difference of opinion, not an incapability of understanding. Not getting fucked up more than he could have isn't keeping up.

>Look at the damage done to Arios after his fight with Hillings.

Isn't the first time we see Garazzo deal Arios damage while it was in the process of being cut in half? Then the explosion quickly follows, which is what caused the damage to the pincer-claw. Garazzo wasn't in the position to have done that with its Beam Claw.

>Stop acting like an ass.

That's strictly coming from you. There's a clear shift.

>>14015367
>That's supposed to be impressive?

Jerid consistently gets better, eventually being able to match the Zeta in the Byarlant.

>Never happened in the TV series

Nah, it did, it's in episode 6. Jerid specifically says "she's sensing their hostility!" while the familiar newtype sound plays.

>that wasn't an easy win for him either.

I think it was. Lila was completely overwhelmed.

>>14014911
>unless Mika learns Ahab Hadouken
I wouldn't put it past him.

>>14015459
Pretty sure the 00 Gundam/00 Raiser's GN swords and blades are stronger then the fucking pistol/hatchets Cherudim has and the Arche keeping up with those is a clear case of inconsistency and handwavium for Lyle to damage the Arche in the first place.

>>14015464

That's exactly what I was saying. It's what stood out the most is all I said about it. I forgot to put "out" after "stands", but it doesn't indicate disagreement.

>>14015499
Then you need to be more concise with your words, nigger.

>>14015514

I fucked up here and there, but that wasn't an issue of conciseness.

Kamille's feinting and use of the cables in his fight against Haman was cool. He nearly kills Jerid when he's piloting the Gabthley, but Mouar got in the way.

>>14015160
>I'm not remotely a UC purist, but the only people who can out-bullshit high-level NT are Gundam Fighters. The Meisters were shown to be highly trained and extremely capable, but Kamille and Judau pulled some "impenetrable ghost-powered force field" bullshit. Kamille took direct control of the Zeta with his mind, and later Judau reassembled the ZZ with his mind. Both were seen to massively boost the power of their beam sabers via psychic power (and in Judau's case the beam saber was even completely out of power).

That shit only happens when they're incredibly angry and have a personal grudge against the person they're fighting. That won't happen in a normal fight.

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But the real question is, can Setsuna beat this with any of his MSs?

>>14013250
>>14013781

And yet they could match the Exia in short bursts of power unless Exia went rage mode spamming GN particles out the ass.

Still the best fodder despite having the shittiest specs. You can't deny this considering the only thing those 3 can ever amount to is human wave tactics against CB. Those shitters that strap bombs to themselves to jihad CB were totally worthless, it didn't even chip the paint off the fucking Gundams.

Dog piling CB would have won them the desert campaign like 20 hours earlier than wasting bajillions of ammo of concentrated fire that amounted to jack shit other than making it really hard for the meisters to take a shit because of the rumbling thanks to their inferior toilet technology unlike G-Reco.

Seriously, if those faggots were smarter they would just go in pairs, get one to sleep while the other looks out. It might be noisy but they should have trained for such things, Setsuna definitely would have the experience for that shit.

I don't even wanna get into how stupid it was that 4 invincible Gundams couldn't just ignore getting shot at and ragdoll their way out of the desert just because they couldn't leave because of their 'mission' and were cut off from HQ. That's literally a situation where a field commander steps up and takes the reigns, the entire point of having separate stages of the chain of command. Who the fuck ever needs a field marshal if the only person allowed to think was the guys back at home?

Then again those 4 were clinically retarded, they really should have just installed a commander for dummies AI on Haro.

>>14015056
To be fair, if 00 had an Ark Performance spin off about the Solar Wars, Ali would be around the same level as Yazan, though his addiction to battle would be a huge flaw whereas Yazan is a pro soldier to the core being rational about everything.

Fon Spaark is still the most broken 00 pilot, even more than ELS Setsuna, but I don't know if that counts as canon.

>>14015933
Qan[t] maybe, Quanta almost certainly since it will probably have quantization masterfuly atuned and Jehuty aside from that didn't have all that much in the way of weaponry since the vector cannon takes too much time to charge and it would end with it getting raiser sowrded

>>14015464
>clear case of inconsistency

Wrong. Not in the way you are thinking of course, but it's VERY consistent.

If you are as autistic as the past /m/ guys who literally counted frame by frame of every episode of 00, you'll notice that both Lockons had over 90% accuracy with their pistols, and less than 20% with the sniper rifle.

You will also notice that the pistols are mostly used against sand niggers like Ali and the middle east faggots in construction robots or just soldiers holding bazookas and manning turrets.

The sniper gig was just a ruse. It was always about dem dual wield cowboy shootin just like their predecessor the Strike Noir.

>>14015986
I remember Lockon 1.0 being primarily a sniper with 2.0 being the pistol using one, to the point that in the movie he used only small arms

>>14015996
Correct, however, if you judge accuracy, as in hit ratio not usage ratio, then both Lockons are god-tier with pistols (regardless of how much damage it does like how Dynames pistols were so garbage a flag's windshield wiper could block all it's shots no problem) while their sniper hit ratio ranked amongst the lowest among all 4 meisters, including the fat Gundam that always misses once every 2 episodes against a swathe of enemies.

I don't get it either, but that's what happened. It's kinda like LOGH, where the narrative and characters try to tell you the viewer one thing, but then what's shown is the complete opposite. It's just that the music and angry faces kinda blurs over it and no one actually counts shots, only how manly pilots go GAR and [intensifies] in their cock pit.

The moment you do, it gets all fucked up. Exia in S1 has the highest hit ratio among firearms (not counting Dynames pistols only obviously) for the meisters when you'd think it would be Dynames or Kyrios especially given how the narrative tried to downplay Setsuna as a sperg.

Meanwhile Flagfag was the most hyped enemy pilot but is inferior to sand nigger and papa bear, only beating out the super jobber Patrick because the latter usually gets KOed before even firing 5 shots per fight. Guess that's what S2 was for, cause the whole Innovader army was made to make Mr. Weeb look good.

I tell you, that fucking license? Unlocked via tutorial.

And for reference, S1 Ali being the overall best pilot, only had 40%~ hit ratio. That tells you just how broken pistols are in 00. It's like Halo 1 all over again.

>>14004363
Barbatos and Mika doesnt have any real feats yet so I gotta give it to The Ayyy Gundam meister

>>14016754
This exactly. Pummeling stationary mooks and lucking out every fight aren't exactly achievements. Gotta give it to the Gundam boys in this one.

>>14016581
>>14015986
Literal verbatim authentic autism.

>>14017020
unfortunately it's not wrong

eh, what can we do?

>>14017020
Where do you think you are?

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Who could beat Uso in the Victory 2 AB besides completely broken things like Turn-A, Qan[T] or G-Self Perfect Pack

>>14017020

No I just learned how to count while watching chinese cartoons and have a better memory than my gold fish.

>>14017247
can I see the work

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>>14017246

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>>14017246
Easily.

Shrike Team vs Turbines?

>>14018080
Shrikes sweep with ease.

>>14017246
I actually think Uso can destroy G-Self with the perfect pack, people kept saying he was a ace pilot but Bellri was one of the most dependant of his overpowered with him getting his MS totalled when he fought someone with a near same tech level suit

>>14018049
I actually want to see a fight between Final Mission Zabanya and Strike Freedom

>>14004363

Gunpla manual states that the nano-laminate armor is basically a paint coating applied to armor that allows it to deflect standard bullet shots. Napalm and other heat-based weaponry will fuck it up. A beam shot from Exia's rifle would be enough to melt away Barbatos' armor.

DESU, a more fair fight would probably be Barbatos VS Throne Zwei. Just take away all of their armaments aside from their giant melee weapons, and they'd be on pretty equal footing. Hell, they're designed by the same guy, i.e. Barbatos is just a Gundam Throne given the main protagonist treatment

>>14018483
Zwei's sword is still a fancy GN particle weapon, it could probably cleave right through whatever weapon the Barbatos has.

>>14018483
Oh? Is there a full translation out?

>>14017246
I don't know why Qan[T] even gets brought up in these powerlevel threads, it's not terribly strong. It can fly, which damn near every final Gundam can, it has six bits that have to attack in melee, it has a pretty standard beam rifle that turns into a sword and a little beam gun on the shield meant for shooting down missiles. It can turn the sword into a big sword, which does nothing, or a Buster Rifle that's about as strong as the one the Wing had but takes much longer to assemble and charge up before firing. It can teleport, but it's actually worse at teleporting than the Raiser was because it has to set up the gate with the bits first and then they have to follow it through. It has more control over the teleporting, sure, but it doesn't do the thing where the Raiser would sometimes just disappear as you were hitting it. And even then Ribbons was able to just turn around and hit the Raiser as it rematerialized, so it's not that great a trick except to dodge something huge your opponent can only do once.

If you want saturation fire, even the Hi-Nu blows the 00Q out of the water because its fin funnels can shoot, not even getting into insane things like Strike Freedom. If you want artillery power, Wing Zero, V2AB, even the ZZ offer big guns that can do just as much damage while firing faster. Teleportation is a niche trick and one the Turn A can do better and faster anyway.

I like 00 and I like the 00Q, but it's really not some god tier fighting machine compared to other Gundams.

>>14015961
Fon Spaark is garbage, fuck off.

>>14016568
The Flag's Defense Rod was meant to deflect and dissipate energy rounds, you retard. Same with the Enact's for that matter. It doesn't mean the GN pistols the Dynames use were shit tier.

>>14019107
I can only imagine there's very little supervision on Sunrise's part as to who's allowed to write "official" novels.
Fon Spaak is basically the kind of character that stars in fanfiction you'd write when you were twelve.

>>14019191
He's literally an edgemaster Gary Stu self-insert whose apparently better then Ali, Aker, and Neil put together who could've killed any of the three as well as Setsuna or the other Meisters had he chosen too, and has stupid abilities for an irrelevant side character.

Fon Spaak is literally without a doubt the kind of character that makes people wince when talking about side stories in Gundam shows.

>>14018483
>DESU
I keep seeing this pop up as an abbreviation, but I can't for the life of me figure out what it means.

>>14019107
>>14019288

Why are you so angry? Are you offended other people can admit to Sunrise's edgy Gary Stu being #1? You the kinda guy that tells everyone to fuck off when they mention Star Wars prequels because you think they are cancer and ruined the franchise?

Just because nobody likes it (including myself) doesn't mean we can't acknowledge it. It's rather unhealthy that you are getting so emotional about it, or perhaps think people actually like Fon Spaark just because they bring him up in a power levels discussion.

>>14019045
>Buster Rifle that's about as strong as the one the Wing
You what, faggot that thing was a kilometers long beam sword that he swinged around, are you insane?