I don't get how Turn A did so badly and was disliked for

did you marathon the show?

>>13699085
no, I take shows slowly.

I've thought about this myself, and I came up with an answer that satisfied me. Simply, it was a lack of exposure that caused Turn A to fly under the radar of most people who'd actually enjoy it. Outside of HK stuff, it hadn't gotten any kind of release outside of Japan. Likewise, Gundam enthusiasts were still spread out in 2000, and wouldn't start gathering in the same watering holes until a couple of years later, right in time for SEED to blow up.

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>>13699153
That's true for the west but what about Japan? It was an anniversary project there not a small thing

You also bring up an interesting point, how would Turn A have done if it had a dub and put on TV in the west?

I love Turn A a lot but if i had to sit through it weekly instead of watching like 5 episodes in a row then i'd probably hate the slow pace

>>13699080
Because it was new and different for it time, also the pacing was slow in the first episodes.

>>13699163
>but what about Japan?
They liked it. Turn A was voted to be the 100th MG release.

>>13699080
>Okay so it isn't your standard robot war show
That's the reason they didn't like it. Japanese have bad taste.

>>13699310
That was much later, Turn A flopped at the time

>>13699321
Prove it.

>>13699326
*8.06% 1993 ガンバレ!SDガンダム大行進
*6.60% 1985 機動戦士aガンダム
*6.12% 1986 機動戦士ガンダムaa (*6.1276%)
*6.12% 2002 機動戦士ガンダムSEED (*6.1240%)
*5.41% 2004 機動戦士ガンダムSEED DESTINY
*5.32% 1979 機動戦士ガンダム
*4.84% 2007 機動戦士ガンダムOO
*4.47% 2008 機動戦士ガンダムOO 2nd season
*4.25% 1995 新機動戦記ガンダムW
*4.11% 1994 機動武闘伝Gガンダム
*3.89% 1993 機動戦士Vガンダム
*3.10% 2000 G-SAVIOUR
*2.99% 1999 ∀ガンダム
*2.75% 1996 機動新世紀ガンダムX (前半*3.51% 後半*1.21%)
*2.56% 2011 機動戦士ガンダムAGE (フリット編*3.22% アセム編*2.33% キオ編*2.25% 三世代編2.23%)
*2.09% 2004 SDガンダムフォース
*2.05% 2010 SDガンダム三国伝 BraveBattleWarriors
*1.80% 2014 ガンダムGのレコンギスタ
*1.64% 2013 ガンダムビルドファイターズ
*1.42% 2014 ガンダムビルドファイターズトライ

If you need this explained, Turn A only got slightly better ratings than X

>>13699080
>surely a nice change of pace might have been good wouldn't it?
Sure, but not that kind of change of pace. Turn A is boring and slow as hell, sorry.

>>13699339
>Contextless ratings.
Timeslot nigga.

>>13699349
No those ratings are bad for an anniversary project with Tomino returning. If you want to claim it was good for the timeslot find it

>>13699343
i'm sorry you're an adhd child with bad taste

Watching Turn A every week would have been a slog. Isn't it like 3 or 4 episodes until Loran actually gets in the Gundam?

All at once and with the benefit of time makes things all better

>>13699361
>Isn't it like 3 or 4 episodes until Loran actually gets in the Gundam?
I don't really get the whole slow thing, do people really only see robots as things happening? If Turn A actually had little going on then watching it in a batch would get worse as you go through a load of nothing

>>13699361

He gets in the Gundam at the end of episode 2.

>>13699339
Why would you compare ratings from different time periods? What matters is how Turn A ranked in comparison to its contemporaries.

>>13699080
Not edgy enough for teens, too much nudity for children, and not gritty enough for adults. It's well written and high quality but it wasn't marketable enough to attract a decent sized viewer base.

>>13699339
That's what happens when a show follows up something that was unpopular like Gundam X. The reputation is already tarnished and the best the show can do is turn that reputation around through word of mouth by the next entry.

>>13699444
thank god they made based SEED to save gundam after those two shitty generic series

>>13699487
Seed and Seed Destiny were awful.I never understood why they were popular in Japan.

>>13699492
melodrama and idols

Turn A is brilliant IMHO, but flopped at the time for numerous reasons...

A. Non-traditional gundam series without as much combat. This was actually quite new for Gundam. I don't think there was a single episode before 1999 in gundam without a battle, and yet Turn-A's first episode had none. That would've been offputting to many japanese.

B. Western designer who made the mecha look very different. I don't think the japanese liked mead doing the designs because he wasn't one of them, and because the end result of the designs very much strayed from the norm of the gundam look. Remember, to many in the west Turn A was very ugly until the show was actually widely available... then they finally understood that it looked odd when still, but beautiful in motion. Japan took a lot longer to accept that for whatever reason.

C. A very unconventional gundam opening. No pop-idol promotion. Sure, Kanno is a genius and one of Japan's best composers... but Bebop didn't do well on TV at first there either. They didn't even air most of its episodes but had to save them for DVD/VHS! At the time she would've only been known for Macross Plus and MAYBE Brain Powerd. Only the former would've been truly mainstream.

Ironically, Turn A has all the elements that appeal to a western audience, hence why it became fairly popular here on /m/ and at least some circles (it was eventually popular enough to get licensed before the other older shows, before Bandai USA shut down.) But almost all those elements that helped it out with the western fanbase were the antithesis of the Japanese fans taste.

In short, it went completely against the traditional marketing mould and flopped as a direct result of this.

>>13699376

You can already compare it to contemporaries on that list, since X aired the year before, Wing 2 years before and SEED aired only 2 years later. That's contemporary enough for comparison and there's no point pretending otherwise. And Turn-A only did a bit better than X, which was shifted to a different time-slot part way through it's airing, more than a full point worse than Wing and had less than half the ratings of SEED. Not to mention that it got very little Gunpla, which meant that the Gunpla that did release wasn't shifting units. The show has only ever had the Turn-A, Turn-X, SUMO (and Gold variant) and Kapool released as far as I can recall. 4 separate units is a tiny amount of gunpla by any series' standards.

>>13699915
X aired 3 years before, man.

>>13699918

Ah jeez, you're right. For some reason I though, G, Wing, X and Turn-A all aired one after another and didn't even double check it. I still think X and SEED are contemporary enough for comparison personally since there's only a few years in the difference and demanding something from the same year is just being contentious to deny the conclusion that Turn-A wasn't received that well.

>>13699080
It's the least GUNDAM of all the Gundam shows, what's so hard to understand about that?
People who are tired of same-old same-old find it a refreshing change, people who like the formula and want more of it find it an unwelcome change. Half of the standard-formula shows were produced after Turn A, so there is a larger bloc of same-old shows for it to stand out from. Before Turn A, the only real out-lier was G Gundam. Now the only other real out-lier besides G and Turn A is Reco which followed in Turn A's footsteps, and there are a dozen standard gundam shows for people to get tired of.

>>13699915
>>13699968
If you're not comparing it to shows within the same season, it basically does not matter.

>>13699997
But 00 is also very different yet hugely successful

> Half of the standard-formula shows were produced after Turn A
Do you just mean gundam or mecha in general?

>>13699080
It's because it's fucking boring where nothing of note happens until over halfway through the show.

>>13700027
>But 00 is also very different
Only for the first half, which /m/, especially during its airing, liked far more than its second half

>>13700036
Say what you want but the numbers don't lie >>13699339

It got good ratings, a movie and a fuck load of gunpla. Even did okay in the west.

>>13700027
Were you here during 00's airing? While 00S1 was moderately successful, there were complaints about various story elements on Japanese twitter about the show. The end result being that 00S2 was reworked into a more conventional Gundam story. And better received by Japanese audiences.

>>13699492
Because they aren't awful.

>>13700050
See >>13700046 . People complaining on the internet =/= doing badly

>>13699163
Go read katte ni kaizo, every other page is Kumeta talking about how much he likes it.

>>13700027
>mean gundam or mecha in general?
I was only referring to the Gundam franchise. And while 00 is different in terms of plot, the overall tone is not.
Turn A is dissimilar in both plot and tone. No newtypes, no cyber-newtypes going berserk, no dead girlfriends, no total war with rebel spacenoids, no fleet battles with ships exploding in the background, etc, etc.
Turn A is a happy place where they load cows into their mobile suits and sing songs of stolen meat trucks. Where standard Gundam fare is "this world of war is horrible, why can't we make a world without war?", Turn A is "this world without war is pretty chill, why do you want to start a war?".

>>13700003

Oh, so you just want to stick with denial then? That's okay too. I mean, I'd think the fact it obviously wasn't shifting gunpla to say it got so little of it would be enough to show it wasn't well received on at least that front, but apparently not. Do we need solid gunpla numbers (which Bandai don't publish) or something before you'll accept that too?

>>13700219
Do you always get this angry when people people out your logical fallacies

>>13700219

Do you always get this angry when people point out that you're being needlessly dismissive?

>>13701400

Ahahaha, jesus, meant that to go to >>13701381. That's a fairly silly mistake to make.

>>13701400
You're trying to determine if Turn A was a ratings failure. To do that, you have to see how it ranked when it aired. This is accomplished by seeing where it ranked in comparison to the other shows of the time. Comparing it to anything else is literally stupid. There is nothing unreasonable about pointing that out.

>>13701429

Not really. You can see how it did by comparing it to shows that aired at roughly the same time just as easily and be just as well informed because even if you take stuff that aired during the same year you could break that down further in to stuff that aired during the same season, and even that further down in to stuff that aired in the same timeslot on other channels. So really, what you're saying is it's only that tiny slice of stuff that aired on competing channels at the same time that you can measure it against to determine whether it was a failure or not. Which is rubbish.

You can hold it up against other shows in it's own franchise and determine whether it was well received in comparison to them and that's a totally valid thing to do, because fans of one are likely to at least check out related shows. And if the ratings are up or down in comparison you can gain some information from that comparison. Whether it retained numbers from the previous show or pulled in new viewers overall can be seen at the very least. And that's valuable information.

I've literally never seen anyone on any forum regarding any serialized television of any kind that you can only measure ratings in comparison to stuff that aired in the same year/season/slot and not against contemporary shows in the preceding or following years. The very idea that you can't gain anything from doing is just plain ludicrous.

>>13701466
>You can see how it did by comparing it to shows that aired at roughly the same time
You can do that, but that's misleading data that doesn't account for all type of factors. You want to determine how Turn A did? Compare its ratings to its contemporaries. Do anything else is actually retarded. So please, stop being retarded and go fetch those ratings or shut the fuck up. Thank you, have a nice day m80.

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I loved how in Turn A, it really felt like the two parties were never really at odds, short of the bad incidents that happened because of a few bad people that just provoked it.

It was.. kind of weirdly resonating knowing that something so large scale and threatening just happened over happenstance and paranoia. How if that one girl just didn't totally nuke that town, or how if that one guy didn't assasinate the Moon Officer, they'd be in almost grand standing with one another.

Turn A was great for a lot of reasons while I watched it. Some episodes even made me cry. I need to finish it, made it about half way before dropping off due to life.

>>13699080
ok you have to remember when it aired on TV, it aired one episode a week. It's painfully boring in this regard unless you are watching 3 or more at a time.

>>13700036

00

>Only for the first half, which /m/, especially during its airing

No this isn't true. /m/ thought 00 s1 was boring as fuck as it was airing. /m/ backpedaled this opinion and started golrifying s1 after s2 started airing when they realized that s2 was just an attempt at shoehorning UC tropes and completely disrupting the 1st season.

>>13701579

What good does know whether a completely different show that aired on a completely different timeframe and that started and ended on different dates did better or worse than Turn-A? Like, say we get the ratings for the Power Stone anime (to name one random 1999 anime, aired Feb - Sept that year), what do we actually learn from that data? There's no obvious crossover between the two in terms of demographics, it was a shorter show that only aired part of the time Turn-A was on (April 99 to April 2000) and while I don't know what time it aired it, it was more than likely a different time slot too. So what do we actually learn by knowing that information that we don't already know by comparing it to other Gundam shows from that time period?

>>13701629
People disliked early season 1 and called it boring because of how it handled characters like Setsuna. When the The Thrones showed up opinions greatly changed. I remember being one of the only people who liked Setsuna before that.

>>13701654
>What good does know whether a completely different show that aired in a completely different year did better or worse than Turn-A?
fixed

A show is a success or not depending on how it performed compared to everything else that aired that same season. Your method completely ignores every single factor that affects ratings values from different years. Eat a dick, you dumb sperg and get some real data.

>>13701668
Similarly people are waiting for some sort of shake up in IBO as well.

The thrones showed up in episode 16, but opinions didn't really change until ep 18/19 when they started blowing up civilians and killing Grham aker's squad members. Which means 00 s1 held the opinion of being boring for roughly 3/4 of the season.

>>13701669

I already explained what good it did though anon. You just ignored it.

>>13701466

> You can hold it up against other shows in it's own franchise and determine whether it was well received in comparison to them and that's a totally valid thing to do, because fans of one are likely to at least check out related shows. And if the ratings are up or down in comparison you can gain some information from that comparison. Whether it retained numbers from the previous show or pulled in new viewers overall can be seen at the very least. And that's valuable information.

A show is not and never has been a success depending on how it performs in comparison to shows that aired in the same year. It might be considered a success depending how it did compared to shows that aired in the same timeslot and date, or shows of a similar nature, but comparing it to shows that happen to air in the same year tells you nothing of value if they aren't actually competing.

Please do tell though, what factors that affect ratings is it ignoring?

>>13699881

>Ironically, Turn A has all the elements that appeal to a western audience

If it was dubbed and aired on Toonami or even Adult Swim it would probably be considered the best Gundam in the west, I don't get why it wasn't at first.

I'm guessing it wasn't just the mech designs and reception in Japan though, it had a feminine, dark-skinned protagonist who looked good in a dress and was naked at several points, it wouldn't have been easy to edit, though I'm sure it could have aired unaltered on Adult Swim.

>>13702526
Especially ironic when Yoko Kanno did the soundtrack and back then she could literally do no wrong with westerners.

>>13702526
You had to consider that Bandai Japan forced MSG on Bandai America (and thus CN).

Bandai Japan thought that the audience should know where Gundam started, ie by production order and didn't took into account how Americans kids would have been turned off by the animation quality.

>>13702640

>Bandai Japan thought that the audience should know where Gundam started


This is wrongggggggg.

It's because the vast majority of merchandise is in the UC.

They had already been airing 0080, 0083, 08th MS Team on CN, but needed to air MSG at some point. It was inevitable.

I heard a lot of anime fans where not into Syd Meads designs.

Which is another reason to never listen to anime fans

>>13699080
10 yrs? more like 6-8 yrs

>>13701683
That isn't really the same. 00 had very good ratings (better in season 1) despite criticism here and other places. There was certainly a split n the show but stuff was at least going on in episodes if you go back and watch even if not everyone was into it. IBO is just dull and actually does have fuck all going on and the mediocre at best ratings reflect that

>>13702526
Boys would have likely have gotten bored with it (Turn A actually does have a lot of robots doing stuff yet no one counts it as they aren't 10 minute fights) but I could actually have seen girls being somewhat into it
>you could have lived in a world where loads of girls like Turn A

>>13702653
>They had already been airing 0080, 0083, 08th MS Team on CN, but needed to air MSG at some point.

You need to check your timeline again.
08th went to air here around the same time 0079 did and 0080 and 0083 weren't given spots on CN until much later - 0080 being that winter and 0083 being part of the inaugural run of Adult Swim's Saturday action block.

Prior to 0079, the only Gundam CN touched was Wing/Endless Waltz.
0080 and 0083 were available for home release at the time, but neither would see any sort of television air time for several months after 0079.

>>13699295
That's actually how I'm feeling about IBO. If I marathoned it, I'd probably love it.

>>13704442
I did as I was playing catch up and trust me it doesn't. It made me see why everyone was moaning about pointless scenes there are, especially repeating the same shit. The way I watched it also meant I got a batch that didn't even have any robots moving, seriously 3 episodes and the best was stills at the end of one episode

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Is there a smaller version of the Turn A release with the official subs? I keep being told the fan subs are incomprehensible so I REALLY want to avoid those. But the blu ray rips are 70 fucking gigs which my laptop doesn't have enough room for.

Or are there separate sub files I just use instead?

>>13703392
>>you could have lived in a world where loads of girls like Turn A

My Niece liked it. For what that's worth.

>>13704604
Oh nevermind, the BD apparently has the shitty subs too. FUCK

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>>13704633
she single?

>>13704604
>>13704753
Buy the DVDs.

>>13704753
Someone ripped the official subs and timed them, you can find them easy.

>>13704604
wan piss fans should jump off a cliff

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>>13704879
well as long as space rats are not attached, perhaps