I'm on Code geass R2 and the guren MK II is essentially

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Well I think there was a more classic inspiration for both

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>>13622196
Bakunetsu god finger should always live on

The scene where Guren gets wings really reminded me of the way Mazinger would dock with the Jet Scrander

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>>13622185
Best girl gets best mech. And all is right with the world.

Why did people like Kallen so much? And I'm not just talking about "because she kicks ass rawr yeah action gurl fuk u suzaku"

I felt like she never really had any character development or any defining moments other than that episode with her junkie mom. Compared to Lelouch and Suzaku, she's not all that compelling (which isn't too harsh a criticism given how well-developed/written those two are).

Still, when she roasted that faggot Luciano I was pretty hyped.

>>13624410

Mostly just because she kicked ass for Lelouch and being on Lelouch's side equaled instant popularity. People hoped she'd kill Suzaku so Lelouch could pwn everyone, since he couldn't do it himself.

Though she did start to get alot of haters after the show aired, mostly because she turned on him where as Suzaku ended up joining him in the end, and because at the end of the show there was nothing much really to her when all was said and done like you said.

>>13624410
>Why did people like Kallen so much?
They did? Most people hated her for being worthless and stupid like the rest of the cast barring Lelouch and Suzaku just only gets fanfare from waifufags and shippers. Like all female characters in Code Geass she just got worse in R2.

Also Suzaku won.

>>13624410
I think it's because she complements Lelouch pretty well. She's the missing link between Lelouch and Zero, sorta. Like, Lelouch is this dorky teenager, while Zero is the commanding British bastard inside him. He can switch between the two personas at will, but he has trouble when he has to manage both. Kallen isn't really that great of a character, but instead of just being CG's physical Red Comet, she also acts a Haman in reflecting bits of the commanding Char too.
They both do this double life thing, but Kallen has it easier because she just has to kick ass, take names, and get her homework done on time. Because of that, though, they have this thing in common, she can help him out whenever he's in trouble doing the same thing.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that Kallen as a character basically works because she's Lelouch's wife.

>>13624527
>>13624510
That's disappointing. I watched the show back in ~2007 but I avoided any and all forums/boards, so I guess I lucked out. It's definitely one of those cases where you love the material but can't stand the fanbase. Maybe CG deserves it for going after that mass-appeal.

What still bugs me is how people tend to shit on Suzaku simply because he's not Lelouch. I'm probably one of the few people who actually rooted for him and Euphy throughout season one - they were definitely an underrated couple. And Suzaku was a perfect foil for Lelouch. They were both great characters for how multi-layered their flaws and triumphs were IMO. You can't discount one and praise the other, really.

>>13624510
>mostly because she turned on him
What

>>13624604
She sided with Schneizel in the final battle.

>>13624600
>What still bugs me is how people tend to shit on Suzaku simply because he's not Lelouch
He's the hero! Everybody hates the douchey moralfag protagonist. With Suzaku they were allowed to be extra douchey and lay on more moralfaggotry because the villain was the protagonist.

>>13624613
She sided with the Black Knights, which is exactly where Zero wanted her to be. She trusted Zero to the very end and was even trying to make Suzaku let her in on their keikaku

>>13624595
This is totally not shipperfag delusion.
>>13624600
That's sadly how the fanbase sees things but honestly the show dud know favors at making everyone out to being an idiot one way or another so it wasn't just Kallen she's just the weakest link of the main cast and doesn't get bearly as much relevance or development and is just there for fanservice.

>>13624623
>She trusted Zero to the very end
Which is why she was trying to kill him....

>>13624614
The moralfaggotry was just a pretense that was quickly dissolved once he started to develop. He didn't care about justification and righteousness so much as he just wanted to die because of his survivor's guilt over what happened seven years ago. Even in that regard, Suzaku was still being naive ("death equals redemption") and got called out on it constantly throughout the show, especially by Lelouch and Euphy. He was far from a stock "moralfag" character.

>>13622185
>>13622196
>>13622227

Let's be real though. Gurren's Claw hand, Shining Gundam's Shining finger, Kazuma's Shining finger all are referencing the Palm Strike which has deep ties to many of the classic martial arts techniques, particularly in Asia.

So really, nobody is ripping off anyone, they're all sampling a part of their shared cultural heritage.

>>13624527
I liked Kallen. Also it was a draw, as was pretty much ever fight they ever had. Both their machines became inoperable at the same time. You're free to not like the character, but you've still got to call a spade a spade.

>>13624658
That's where the issue is with her, I think. Ougi, Diethard and the other Black Knight betrayers were all on board for ousting Zero, but Kallen was the only one who would have followed him to hell and back (she pretty much said so directly). That's exactly why Lelouch rejected her when they were at Ashford for the last time before he took the UFN hostage - because he knew she would follow him to her death.

And then Kallen just goes ahead and joins in on the Emperor Lelouch hate train despite once being his most loyal friend. Maybe she was pissed she was rejected, like a scorned lover or something, which would've been a pretty lame character development.

>>13624658
I thought she was just trying to get to Zero to ask him what the fuck was up

>>13624631
Work wife. I personally think Lelouch belonged with Shirley.

>>13624693
>Let's be real though. Gurren's Claw hand, Shining Gundam's Shining finger, Kazuma's Shining finger all are referencing the Palm Strike which has deep ties to many of the classic martial arts techniques, particularly in Asia.
Nigga I've seen some crazy-ass kung-fu movies but I ain't never seen a Bakunetsu God Finger before G Gundam.

>>13624739
Maybe it's like the "dim mak" a.k.a. the five-point-palm exploding heart technique, seeing as the radiant wave surger literally makes Knightmares explode.

Probably not intentional by the show's creators, though.

>>13624749
>Maybe it's like the "dim mak" a.k.a. the five-point-palm exploding heart technique, seeing as the radiant wave surger literally makes Knightmares explode.
Except she kills them with a God Finger, not the sort of accupressure movements they'd usually do to convey that

>>13624729
I never understood the Lelouch/Shirley thing, or it must have completely gone over my head or something. Never liked her as a character, she didn't have much of an identity beyond wanting to get in Lulu's pants. Her death was a pretty intense scene, but I didn't care that she was gone.

>>13624756
Are you saying a wave of radiation disabling circuitry isn't close enough to a wave of force disabling pressure points?

>>13624758
Shirley was bland because she was a normal preppie girl. Her only problems in life were "When is Lelouch gonna take this relationship seriously!?" and "I wonder which dress I should wear to this week's episode of Milly's Bullshit." Her normality was crushed by her connection to Lelouch, and bad shit just kept happening. Tragic whatever they're called.

>>13624795
Yeah, pretty much. She was an innocent who just got jerked back and forth by all the bullshit going on in Lelouch's life and he felt guilty about it, but she had no personality.

Kind of like when people claimed to bawl over Robb's death in Game of Thrones. Dude was an idiot who was setting himself up for failure despite multiple warnings, I didn't miss him one bit. I get the feeling people mistake the tragedy/shock value of a character's death with how well they actually liked that character, or even how well that character was written.

>>13624819
I dunno, I thought the normal schoolgirl contrasted really well with the obscenely theatrical rest of the cast. Also I cried like a bitch whenever something bad happened to her and Lelouch jerked off his tragedyboner.

>>13624739
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nIFD-PnzCiI

You were saying?

>>13624527
>Kallen
>Most people hated her

Nope.

>Suzaku won

Strategically, but not tactically.

>>13624600
Thing is, Suzaku was meant to be annoying and hated. The whole Code Geass narrative sets him up as a stubborn obstacle in Lelouch's path who serves Britannia until his mindset break. It's completely natural that people wouldn't like him. I did find him kind of interesting, in the long run, but I was never a fan of his.

Suzaku's relationship with Euphemia was just too perfect a fairy tale to work. It was set up as an obvious parallel to Kira and Lacus, but for that same reason it was destined to fail too. Instead of having Kira and Lacus defeat everyone and have their way, their situation is turned upside down.

>>13624410
Well, the main reason is obviously because she's hot-blooded and has a cool robot with several good battle scenes. Plus sexiness never hurts. That's the basic idea.

It's not exactly too deep, but other /m/ characters have been liked for less.

That said, I thought the episode with her mom was pretty good. She learned from her past mistake and strived to do better. That's more motivation than what any other Black Knight in either season of Code Geass got.

It's true that Kallen never had a huge super-involved development arc, but she did get a few decent scenes nonetheless. Such as questioning herself after Shirley's dad got killed, plus her early interactions with Lelouch at school where they were both hiding their double lives. She had a fairly nice talk with Suzaku on the island episode too.

The issue is that the second half of the narrative had her either missing for like six or seven episodes, which wasn't a very good idea, and while there was some attempt to have her attempt to understand Lelouch...this couldn't be accomplished until the very end for plot reasons. Which meant she absolutely had to be fooled by Lelouch for the sake of ZR until nothing else could be done. Not a particularly popular writing decision, since it pushed her away from the main character's team. At least she did realize the truth in the finale, I guess, plus her mom seemed to be recovering in the episode.

>>13622196
>>13622227

Indeed. Taniguchi was an episode director and storyboarder on G Gundam, which was also were he met Takahiro Kimura, so it's more of a homage than anything else.

>>13624659
There were seeds planted earlier, but Suzaku didn't actually abandon his moralfagotry until episode 20 of R2. Before that point, the closest he came was using Refrain to interrogate, but he turned back at the last sceond. I would agree that he wasn't "stock" per se, but there have been criticisms towards him (or the writers if you prefer) for not representing a proper alternative to Lelouch.

>>13624712
To me, it came across as more the lack of any explanation than the rejection as such.If Emperor Lelouch had bothered to just hint at his true intentions, or at least keep the whole "I plan to die" part a secret, Kallen wouldn't have opposed him. Hate is too strong a word, since she's actually shown crying later on.

Beyond that...she wasn't going to stand and watch Britannia take over the whole world, you know. Certainly not without a good reason. But Lelouch couldn't tell her, even for her own sake, since being on the "opposing side" prior to the peace gave her the chance to live a normal life. Suzaku can't be himself anymore, Jeremiah is off on a farm in the middle of nowhere, etc.

>>13625000
Kung-Fu Hustle came out before G Gundam?

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>>13626108
Kung Fu Hustle's referencing the same palm strike, 如來神掌 usually translated as Buddha's Palm. It's a fictional kungfu move popularized in various kungfu novels and movies. Here's an oldskool Hongkong movie titled after the move from the 60s. https://youtu.be/-Rf4z2bG0yU

The name of the move is actually referencing the part in Journey in to the West where the Monkey King tries to evade Buddha, only to be pinned down under his palm, since his palm is endless like the sky itself.

How powerful are palm strikes really in real life compared with punches?

>>13625681
>Suzaku was meant to be annoying and hated.
But that's wrong you fucking retard.

>>13624614
>douchey moralfag
Is that really all you picked up from his character in the show?

Sometimes I wonder how lulufags even know how to breathe.

>>13626416
>Is that really all you picked up from his character in the show?
That's not what I said at all.
>Lulufags
Did you somehow forget about Suzack becoming one of the main villains in R2?

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>>13626434
>>Lulufags
>Did you somehow forget about Suzack becoming one of the main villains in R2?

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>>13625681
Honestly, I really enjoyed Suzaku. Him and Kallen were the two characters I found the best among the cast, and I can call them my favorites easily.

>>13626452
DELETE THIS

>>13626311
Punches can hit a bit harder if you male sure to strike with the knuckle, palm strikes are much easier on your hand so you won't hurt yourself as quickly.

>>13626223
That doesn't really look like a God Finger

>>13625681
Never watched SEED, although I've seen more than my fair share of cliche, tripe and tedious romantic subplots in movies/TV, and I can totally understand how you'd call Euphy and Suzaku a perfect fairy tale. Still, I think there's so much more under the surface.

What I liked about Euphy x Suzaku was that they were on equal terms during both their good and bad times. They were both using their moralist tendencies to try and cover up their own self hatred (Euphy didn't want to be just a figurehead, Suzaku had survivor's guilt). Their romance wasn't a one-track road to happiness - they were both being called out on it by Lelouch and Cornelia for quite some time, and for good reason. It was one of the most down-to-earth character developments in the show - relationships seem amazing at first, but a couple soon realizes it's not all butterflies and daisies, and divorces/breakups happen at this stage if things move too fast. Suzaku's resignation was basically that.

But they overcame it together, once again on equal terms. The whole "love me, and I'll love you in return" bit in S1E20 drove home how they didn't just have a conveniently forced romance, but rather a truly mutualistic relationship. I feel like most TV/movie romances don't ever bother developing that third stage where characters have to affirm why they're in love, for reasons other than "the plot demands it".

To make things even better, they re-brand their moralism from naive idealism into something that actually gets results. That's why Euphy's death and the whole princess massacre event will forever be the most vicious gut-puncher to me - because it shit over everything they went through to learn not to hate themselves.

>>13628517
>survivor's guilt
I don't think committing patricide quite qualifies as survivor's guilt

>>13629173
He flat out admits it to Euphy when he hands in his badge:

"I killed my own father. I was never punished for it. I just lived on like nothing happened. And right now, I'm being protected again. As soldiers die and elevens suffer, I'm unscathed. A person like me doesn't deserve this."

>>13629178
You need to google what survivor's guilt means.

>>13629180
>Survivor's guilt is a mental condition that occurs when a person perceives themselves to have done wrong by surviving a traumatic event when others did not.
>"As soldiers die and elevens suffer, I'm unscathed. A person like me doesn't deserve this."

Yes, he feels guilty over the murder he committed, but he directly states says he's also ashamed of being a survivor. They're two sides of the same coin, really. We're only arguing over semantics here.

>>13629194
Being a survivor of what, exactly?

>>13629198
Of the first war between Japan and Britannia. He was sheltered by Kirihara after he ended the war by murdering his father, and he just got away with it while his countrymen fought and died for nothing. And then he was being sheltered by Euphy while the Japanese were being oppressed all over again.

>>13629194
>Survivor's guilt is a mental condition that occurs when a person perceives themselves to have done wrong by surviving a traumatic event when others did not.
That definitively does not cover patricide.