Hey /m/ I'm making a sci-fi roleplaying universe (or atleast

>>13442976
Mechs as the all-rounder, maybe? They're not the best choice for any situation, but they're flexible enough in deployment that you can use them for anything. That makes them useful for a fast-response role where the specifics of the enemy forces are uncertain. It would be especially useful if this is a setting with spacecraft, where limited mass ratios keep the carrier ships from loading every type of vehicle they might need to deal with a situation, and multi-role machines are preferable.

>>13442976
Realistically? None.

Believably within a silly universe? Upscale infantry. Quick and agile, for its size, and able to be easily equipped in the field, because all it has to do is pick up a new weapon.

>>13443022
OP Here

I was thinking as them being special infantry support units that would carry big and powerful weapons capable of penetrating very tough and durable vehicle armor but normal infantry would still exist

>>13443011
OP here

I like the idea of them being easily modifiable and customization for the majority of missions, and I have yet to decide if there is going to be spaceships and space combat in the game. But if there is I think that having them act as sort of a space infantry is believable due to normal soldiers being at severe risk if they get a hole in their suit and them being able to move around well in low to no gravity

>>13442976
Check out Heavy Gear. The primary fighting is done by Gears (VOTOMS style robots) but tanks and infantry are both still viable.

Google Heavy Gear D6, use the drop box link. It's a solid setting, and best of all has giant land ships.

It really depends on the type of environment that they're going to exist in, and what types of mecha you want.

For starters, tanks suck in urban environments since they rely on thick frontal armor, when they can be attacked from the sides or behind (or even above and below). They're also road-bound due to the existence of buildings, and can be herded to their destruction (bridges make nice traps as well since you can just drop the tank into the river). Jets are too fast to do more than ordnance delivery, although helicopters have more staying power at the cost of survivability and payload. You could design your mecha to basically be bigger infantry, with the agility to dodge heavy ordnance and the size to be able to fit through alleyways or possibly jump on top of (or over) buildings; beware of the former case there though, since mecha can still weigh a lot and bring down the building with their sheer weight.

In wide-open expanse environments, these advantages are more muted since tanks don't have to worry about getting attacked from the sides, so you could make your mecha speed-based and able to outmaneuver lesser opponents at the cost of armor. There's also the Metal Gear case where treaded vehicles can't move through forests or up mountains easily, whereas a mecha with legs can sidestep through trees and walk up steep slopes, possibly aided by jump jets.

As for the type of mecha, you have two two philosophies at your disposal: the "walking tank" or the "jet fighter with arms and legs." The former is something like Steel Battalion, MechWarrior, etc., where you have a slow ground-bound mecha with limited/no jumping, but is almost invulnerable against everything but another mecha and carries enough weaponry to level a town. The latter is more like what you see in Gundam, Macross, etc., where the mecha has unparalleled speed and maneuverability (and they can fly) and is decently well-armed but is easier to kill if you can hit it.

>>13443506
(Cont.'d)

If you want inspiration, try watching shows like Patlabor and Ghost in the Shell Stand Alone Complex. Those shows portray mecha in a fairly utilitarian way, where they're a part of society but don't absolutely dominate it (at least in the case of the latter). There's also Deus Ex Human Revolution, which has limited mecha but does feature a cyberpunk setting that might give you some ideas. There are probably other mecha shows that I'm not thinking of, but those have some pretty good ideas.

>>13442976

A mech the size of a Titanfall is only about 6m, so it would basically be Big Infantry and serve the same purpose as other armor. Fighter jet sized mecha, like gendums, are correspondingly more powerful for some reason.

>>13442976
you could have mechs that transform into tanks I guess, vertical maneuvering through cities and buildings could be an advantage for that, but it depends on how realistic you want them to be

>>13442976
>Hey /m/ I'm making a sci-fi roleplaying universe (or atleast trying to) and I'd really like to include mechs into the universe alongside other more realistic stuff like tanks and whatnot

That's easy, tanks are one-hit fodder if the mechs are the focus. If they're not then mechs are basically just tanks that can go prone.

>>13443573
OP here

Mechs are not going to be the focus in anyway, I just felt the absolute need to include them because I love them so much

>>13443670

Then they're tanks that can go prone

If this is your own system, and you have SKILLS, you can differentiate mechs from other vehicles in this way:

Where driving a tank or a plen would require the requisite skill, flying gundam directly benefits from your character's skills, as in the mech would shoot based on the character's SHOOTING etc

But these actions are taken at a penalty unless a requisite trait is taken, etc

What system OP?

>>13443704
Well it would kinda be my own system based off of a modified D20 system, there would be skills and one of them would be vehicle operation. The mechs would not be a large part of the game at all just something in the world and that could be piloted but the game is by no means a mech pen and paper game.

There is no realistic reason at all for mecha.
Now, with that out of the way...

In my settings we use them as a replacement for something else, currently I'm going down the Heavy Gear route and basically using Gear/Titanfall sized mecha as light tanks/recon units.

BattleTech effectively uses them to replace the main battle tank.

For the size you're talking, I would use them as light tanks. Fast, manoeuvrable and able to carry decent weapons - customisable, but unable to stand up to an MBT one-on-one. They would support infantry, be able to go where larger vehicles can't. And not be invincible.
Think VOTOMs/Heavy Gear/Protomechs (from BattleTech).

File: slut bajeena.png (206KB, 450x338px) Image search: [Google]

206KB, 450x338px

>>13442976
>hey im making mecha (...) realistic
everytime

Well, you can try the whole multirole thing.

Maybe the first mechs were repurposed ship repair pods, they just swapped out the repair tools with guns. Legs could be just simple landing legs made to hold onto the ship with a magnet/grappling hook at first, then they designed new legs to increase the strength of the legs so the pods can "land" on the ship at higher speeds to cut down on wasted time from retrieving the pods and resupplying them without having to let them slow down so much. These makeshift mechs then went through so much modifications during the war that they became a new combat vehicle, no other vehicle had the versatility stemming from the arms of the mechs that, from its repair-hand ancestry, could grab pretty much anything and operate any weapon that they can grab with sufficient pre-programming for the hands and the control cables that can be deployed for it.
No other vehicle, except the likes of air-drop tanks, could take a drop from high altitude since their shock absorbance system wasn't made to take that much strain.
But its not without its own weakpoints, it is versatile, but not as effective as the specialised machines. It is weak in muddy terrain, due to its legs, but in urban combat where tanks do not excel in, the assortment of non-conventional equipment lets the mechs excel, they can use the grappling hook to climb a building, the electromagnet on the limbs can be used to pick up metallic objects to use as shields, etc. Their armor is not fantastic, but years of actuator development and thruster development(both of which went into relevant vehicles) gave them good mobility if they didn't get bogged down.

>>13443557
>titanfall
>mechs

>>13445270

Mecha ja nai?

Really you guys aren't thinking in the slightest on how to make mecha real.

I just figured out a way to make tanks obsolete with one of its easy flaws.

>>13447512
>Really you guys aren't thinking in the slightest on how to make mecha real.

A 6 meter tall ground based armored weapon is a really bad idea breh

Anything that would make it a good idea is easily applicable to tanks

>climbing

That is what helicopters are for

>>1344753
I'm not going to prove you wrong because I feel I have a good idea for myself.

But you aren't thinking out of the boundaries of what mecha is and how its capable of evolving to take its place in reality.

>>13447618

I would legit love to be proven wrong though because I too want viable mecha in a semi-realistic setting

From where I stand I can't see them doing anything that tanks and helos and jets can't do but your vision could be revolutionary in this aspect

>>13447643
Well, ok. I'm not a military expert but I can give you something to work with.

I call it a ghost.

Its rather small in size and its made to for fast acting stealth support and stealth operations. it can't support loads of armor because it would destroy the joints. Its movement is its best feature. So spheres would be placed on the ends of its feet for ease of movement in every direction with A.I controlled legs for balancing purposes. A Separate A.I is made for upper torso and visual status on the pilots surroundings using a 360 camera the same camera that is used for self driving cars. Grapple hooks for rough terrain used on the ground that is similar to the way spider man swings and infared gas is used to cloak from enemy vision. Two anti tank sniper rifles for shoulder 1 and LMG for shoulder 2. Arms are used for reloading and other features you may have in mind. If it is spotted it can relocate to a different position within a moments notice.

>>13442976
I always thought the most realistic way to implement mechs is to make them essentially an evolution on powered armor. Powered armor essentially removed most land vehicles from the equation, but afterward a sort of mini arms race happened to make the biggest and heaviest PA they could. Suddenly without really thinking about it all your "infantry" is now in 10 meter tall self-propelled vehicles armed to the teeth with rockets and cannons.

>>13442976

New weapons are made for one of two reasons: to use a tech technology to gain an advantage, or to fulfill some newly needed role where other weapons fail.

In terms of justifying mecha, both approaches have been used in anime.

The first is the easiest, which is to say "mechs are just better". This is the Mobile Suit route, where big robots are mysteriously just 200% better than all other alternatives. Missiles fired from planes are useless, but put those same missiles on the shoulder of a robot and WHOA BABY, LOOK OUT WE GOT A REAL BADASS OVER HERE. For a story this is low tier but acceptable, for a roleplaying setting you CAN NOT afford this path. If you do you run into the same problem that Harry Potter has as an RPG setting: even moderately clever players can just abuse the shit out of the obvious flaws by pointing out mundane shit like "what if we took the beam weapons, and put them on the tanks? Since, you know, they ignore all armor and everything."

The other approach requires more work, but is more likely to be successful for an RPG because it specifically integrates the mechs into the world: come up with a specific problem that the mechs are there to solve. Something that mechs can do better than more conventional weapons, which makes up for their other downsides.
In Sidonia, for example, the enemy are an alien race called the Gauna who can endlessly regenerate their body, making conventional weapons no matter the firepower fucking worthless. The only thing that can kill Gauna is some strange metal we found floating in space, which they are deathly allergic to. The problem is that the humans have only ever found this metal once, and there wasn't a hell of a lot of it. We cannot afford to put that shit into bullets, because otherwise we will run out of the space metal and be fucking defenseless again.
So they used it to make reuseable melee weapons (spears), which then robots wield because how the hell else would you do it?

>>13442976
One of the things bipedal machines are really useful for is very rough terrain, since legs handle extreme height differences much better than treads or wheels.

Maybe mechs are useful as basically hyper-advanced offroad vehicles? They can surprise the enemy by getting into positions that would otherwise be inaccessible and putting out fire from there.

make them into medic bots, that have slight combat capabilities. that or itano circus bots, basically meaning missiles forever.

>>13443506
Tanks and other armored vehicles are essential in MOUT ops.


OP, I would use mechs as a sort of long-loiter helicopter analogue. Something with a 20mm autocannon (or your scifi future equivalent) would be the ideal armament for something in the 6-9 meter range, especially if they can get kneel down to about 2.5-3 meters or so. Doubly so if this is in the relatively fragile environment of a space colony. A cannon that heavy would be good against most light armor, and isn't impossible to armor against, at least a bathtub of armor ala the A-10.

I think that might be the only situation they'd excel at, and they couldn't possibly do it without heavier armor support. Putting a pair of them sweeping streets while infantry sweeps buildings would be good, as you could put those antiambush mic/radar combos on a mast on one of them and defend against snipers too.

>>13443670
If you don't care about going into depth with the mech, just use damage states.

For example, you start in condition blue. You take X damage and you slip down to green and take a minor penalty to all actions. Take X damage again and your at yellow with a bigger penalty. Take X damage yet again and your down to red with a test to make sure you don't explode. Take X damage once more and you'll be in real trouble.

One of the neat things you can do is keep going with the damage states. Vehicles don't just explode when you shoot them, they explode because the ammo cooked off or the fuel caught fire. So if a player is outrageously good with damage control checks and extremely lucky not to be killed in the cockpit he could keep using the mech until the penalties mean that only nat 20s can keep it moving.

>>13443704
That actually sounds pretty cool.

>>13447897
So how well does it stand up to an actual tank?

Well...The AT rifle isn't going through the frontal armor of any MBT. Maybe an armored fighting vehicle or light tank but against a front line tank it's not going to cut it. You'll have some luck with the flanks, though. However, if they've got ERA you'll loose your first shot if you don't find a gap.

And that first shot is going to be very important. They might not be able to pin point your location but they'll have a good idea what direction you're in. They'll just swing the tanks around to face you and start saturating the area. Now, being a mech you can go prone or depress the legs to hide. Which is a good thing since they don't need a solid hit. No, without armor they can retaliate with high explosive and canister rounds. Just a big ol' tank sized shotgun to sweep an entire hillside.

So in conclusion, good in the ambush but lacking staying power. If it gets caught in a fair fight it dies like anything else. Best used in remote and otherwise impassible terrain where it can retreat and disappear.

I've got another idea though, if you'll hear it.

>>13454057
The mech wasn't great in space and was barely good on the ground. But it could do both. In space it could AMBAC around, giving it a mobility advantage to offset it's inefficient weapon mountings. Mostly, they swarmed larger ships using solid shields to survive the point defenses and then started cutting them open with arc wielders or unleashing rocket pods at extremely short range.

On the ground mechs favored cities, jungles, hills, and even rivers as long as they were tall enough. With their legs they could find hull down positions in the damnedest places and dug in they could stall a column of heavy tanks. Most carried shoulder hardpoints for anti-air or anti-tank missiles, depending on the mission. The right hand usually had some kind of autocannon or tool/melee weapon. The left, however, could carry a solid shield with explosive reactive tiles. While the tiles wouldn't last in a prolonged fight the shield could be replaced in the field. Spare shields were often mounted on the upper arms and hips, adding to the mech's defenses even when not in use.

One of the quirks of being a space adapted weapon was that the mech still had some rocket motors even when adapted to ground combat. It even had some fuel for them as hydrogen was both propellant and power supply. As a result, mechs could fly temporarily. They were as aerodynamic as a brick and had the heat signature of a second sun but it was often a neat surprise to perform top down attacks on dug in enemies.

Training for the mech was usually quick. Mostly, the mech followed the pilot's own movements with a kind of motion capture controls. With all those limbs most of the systems were only one or two parts deep making maintenance a breeze. As a result, the Mech became useful as a general purpose swarm unit, overwhelming the enemy with numbers of poorly trained recruits and cheap mechs. Still, those that survived tended to be very skilled at what they did and elite units existed.

>>13442976
Just copy Dream Pod 9's work.

>>13443022
Oh boy yet another retard tripfag to shit up /m/

>>13454142
Ididn't mean to use the trip there, I only use it on the drawthread intentionally. I'm not going to be another Snapfag-Kun, and most of the time, you won't even know it's me, I swear.

>>13442976
I think the way your mechs will be used will depend on your setting and how it makes it viable, or preferable over other types of military available. Maybe the environment encourages it, like certain weather conditions that are prevalent enough that mechs are necessary; maybe there's a special material that is inapplicable to other common military units; maybe mechs were built first for some reason and tanks are a more recent invention. Then when you find a reason, consider what happens if the technology used on mechs were used on other military units instead.

Whatever the reason, you can probably figure out a proper role for them once the setting requires their presence, rather than forcing them into a role that doesn't mesh with the setting.

File: Kodiakfront2m.png (198KB, 270x360px) Image search: [Google]

198KB, 270x360px

>>13442976
Heavy Gear, you're looking for Heavy Gear.
There's often a DP9 Thread up on /tg/ not right now though.

In Heavy Gear, the eponymous "Gears" are Votoms-Like minimecha with wheels that fill a shock trooper and infantry support role.

Tanks are still kings of the land, and Helicopter gunships are more frightening than Dragons in D&D, almost all vehicles burn gasoline, and there are massive hovering land ships.

It's pretty awesome, and the crunch is fast, fun, and lethal.

Obviously the answer is to upscale everything so mecha are the size of infantry and are supported by fuckhuge tanks and massive aircraft. All the buildings are really huge too to fit the giant mecha and you look inside and see all the desks and tables and offices are made for mecha and you see a giant mecha coffee cup that says "#1 Boss" on it and after the war is over you go home to mecha wife and mecha kids and hope that mecha government does right on the innocent people you met during deployment.

Mechs can be justified as Deep Strike units designed to destroy SAM positions by going fast and low. Basically walking/boosting attack helicopters, with similar attack power to a Bradley or so.
They would still get oneshot by tanks. 6-8 meters tall.
Directly stolen from Muv-Luv by the way.

Echoing the idea of going smaller.

Especially as depending on how cyberpunk you go, their niche could be heavily geared towards being heavy corporate raiders, actually capable of going inside buildings and doing stuff.

Which in some ways could have things going in an Armored Core direction.

>>13445176
Adding on to this, you can have a mech-conversion ability for the repair pods that some ships carry.
Basically, they use the modularity of the repair pods to slap on combat equipment, turning it into a makeshift mech/fighter

Of course, the real combat mechs, although they were derived from the above(Originally just converted repair pods), they are built for combat unlike the repair pods that are built for repairing ships, so the combat mechs are more effective in their job.

The existence of the conversion capability and the availability of the fire control software for various weapons makes it easy to convert a repair pod into a makeshift mech, so even unarmed ships, as long as they carry some weapons for the ship's repair pods(Every ship will have repair pods, to fix damage from debris collision and all), can fight off enemies.

>>13442976

the thing with sci-fi is, the more realistic it is, the harder it becomes to mesh mechs into it.

tanks, planes and spacecraft are always more effective.

I think you have to go smaller and consider hardsuits instead of mechs.

In this one bit I'm working on mechs are used because they react quicker than tanks or armored vehicles. Normally, with a tank you need the commander to spot the enemy then tell the driver to move and the gunner to aim so if they get jumped in an ambush it takes time to react.

A mech has a crew of one. More over, the controls mostly just follow the posture of the user. The pilot raises the left stirrup and the left leg lifts. The pilot swings the joystick left and right and the right arm swings left and right. Very intuitive, functional with the bare minimum of training. So if the pilot needs to do something RIGHT NOW he can.

>>13455775

If that is the case, then all you need is some kind of high kill rate antiarmor weapon, like say military railguns.

Tanks get eaten by Railguns because the armor to survive a Railgun hit simply isn't around right now/ is too heavy. Therefore you make the Mecha who, with a combination of faster response controls + higher mobility + a package of chemical rockets for short bursts of speed = ability to get out of the way of the shot a reasonable amount of the time.

So it fills the same role as a tank, but has a significantly higher survival rate against modern tankhunter weapons. They probably cannot dodge a supersonic shell in flight, but they can move the fuck out of the way as the railgun is taking aim, making tracking them as a target much harder than shooting a tank is.

On top of that, throw in some fluff about the increaed range of motion for handheld guns + mech tier firepower allowing the mechs to serve as a reasonable anti-air defense for area denial. High altitude bombers and shit are out of their range, but helicopters and stuff they can really easily shoot down.

>>13455821
>They probably cannot dodge a supersonic shell in flight, but they can move the fuck out of the way as the railgun is taking aim, making tracking them as a target much harder than shooting a tank is.

And since Mechs can go hull down just about anywhere they can play peekabo with them.

>anti-air defense
Give them lasers. tactical high energy lasers would wreck havoc on most air power as it stands. Ground forces have armor, smoke, and terrain to protect them but a high speed bomber filled with fuel and bombs? It's an explosion waiting to happen.

>>13455909

Seems reasonable. You can even say that the Mechs can carry energy weapons that most other platforms cannot, because the mechs by definition have to have some kind of very powerful power supply to function at all in the first place for any length of time.

Go into 'artillery mode', divert power from the rest of the mech to just the gun and what systems are necessary to aim/use it. Fire the laser cannon.

This does, however, sacrifice their mobility for as long as they are in air defense mode. But that just means that the mechs have to decide which part of the battle they are participating in, and given a couple minutes warning can switch from one to the other.

>>13442976
Tanks have no place in the future. Aircrafts will rule land and sky

>>13456220
> because the mechs by definition have to have some kind of very powerful power supply to function at all in the first place for any length of time.
Unnecessary and someone is going to wonder why the same tech can't be applied to tanks or other vehicles.

On the other hand, you do have rockets...
Oh, just jump. Rocket up to the same altitude of the bombers and engage them directly. You'll be going through fuel like an SUV, you'll have thermal signature that would make Micheal Bay proud but you'll completely negate the altitude advantage. They'll still have speed and possibly firepower advantage but most planes are comparatively unarmored. Likewise, most AtA missiles are designed for fragmentation and would have a hard time killing a mech.

Landing is going to be troublesome. Braking with the thrusters is going to eat nearly as much fuel as getting up there in the first place. Parachutes would be best but it leaves you a sitting duck.

Ah well, can't be perfect.

>>13456304
What about THELs?

File: 1437371101292.jpg (58KB, 300x470px) Image search: [Google]

58KB, 300x470px

>>13454057
I designed its base specs I bet it would work better if people shared their knowledge. I only gave anti tank snipers just because of the distance it has. The weapons are interchangeable and I didn't know about ERA.

A tank costs around 7 million. A jet costs 160 million. We are all thinking too small and not grasping the bigger picture. its not tanks that mecha should be beating. It should be beating jets. If we can make a mech under 160. Then were as good as gold.


And Team I've been doing some research. We need to think smaller mecha. Military groups do not want to build a giant fucking robot that can only walk and use its hands. The price would be astounding and hands are obsolete. Why make a mecha that can drop its gun if shot in the hand? If it runs out of ammo it should be loaded manually by a support solider and only have a pilot as a operator to help the A.I. figure out top priority

>>13453825
>That actually sounds pretty cool.

It's the justification for mechs in the ruleset I'm currently working on, but it remains nothing more than a flimsy fluff/crunch justification for GIANT GODDAMN ROBOTS

>>13458460
We do have something of a plan to take down air power.
>>13456318
Basically, it's using rocket boosters to fight jets at the same altitude. Now fighting an enemy on their home turf is pretty bad but if you take into account how most air to air missiles have fragmentation warheads and how jets often have almost no armor in order to be as fast as possible a mech actually has a decent chance in a fight.

However, landing is something of an issue.

>If it runs out of ammo it should be loaded manually by a support solider and only have a pilot as a operator to help the A.I. figure out top priority

I'll be honest, I don't know where you're going with this.

A mech already has hands so you can use those to reload. Furthermore, any vehicle can loose it's weapons to lucky hits. It's why battleships had armored turrets and tanks sometimes had gun mantlets. At least in the case of a mech you could discard damaged or jammed weapons and pick up salvaged or improvised weapons.

>giant fucking robot

How big are we talking here. I've been modeling it at about 5 meters or about 16 feet.

>>13458634
I'm not thinking of along the lines of mecha flying but just being capable of destroying a 160 million dollar aircraft. I find that to be valuable and in good reason to build a mech for 160.

>>13458710
>>13458634
(Continued)

Yeah, I'm not talking big. As small as we can make and and keep it under budget. but no hands. like I said why make a mecha that can get its hand blown off and drop its gun?


The mech will eventually run out of ammo and hands are obsolete, so support soldiers are going to be waiting for the guns to run out and reload the weapons. Think of it as a Battletech mech, a Mad Cat, small as a 1 story house and runs of out ammo. Who would be there to reload its gun arms?

My vision for the pilot just act as a big brother for advanced military A.I. The A.I will be doing all of the quick and humanly impossible evasive maneuvers and weapons firing. I was thinking that the A.I would display its targets and priorities on a hud system and the Pilot would pick and sort on what happens next.

>>13458840
You keep saying "hands are obsolete", but what do you exactly mean by that? Hands are a great idea for mechs, because they're extremely modular and dextrous, useful for everything from holding a gun to picking up cargo.

Also, if you give a mech hands and extra magazines/batteries, you don't need that support unit, because the mech pilot can do it themselves.

>>13458840
>Manually reload the guns
Having support soldiers reload it is kind of silly.

You don't need a hand to reload anyway, just drop the empty shell container from the gun, move the gun close to the body, a simple mechanism on the torso slides the next shell container in.

>>13458858
Well, I guess it depends on how real we are trying to make mecha. They are useful and you are correct on there capabilities, but I have yet to see in this age a robotic hand that can do anything a human hand can do. That is why I find hands obsolete. They are currently just a dream.


>>13458866
I wasn't even thinking about this. thanks.

>>13458866
Actually I really like this idea I can't believe I wasn't thinking about this.

>>13458932
http://bebionic.com/

The only thing this bionic hand is missing is the spreading movement of the fingers. That is very important, but we're a lot closer to full replication than you'd think.

>>13458937
Well, I can get behind hands on my mecha.

>>13458932
>>13458934
Though, using that idea does mean that a portion of the torso will be taken up by the spare ammunition. That would basically be a weakpoint in that a shot that hits there, goes through the armor and fuck up the ammo enough will pretty much cause the ammunition to cook off.

>>13458970
From a physical design standpoint, ammo cookoff is terrible, but it makes a perfect "HIT THE ENEMY FOR MASSIVE DAMAGE" for game logic purposes.

Ok, From a design standpoint I want this mecha to be able to take down a tank and a Jet.

what weapon are available to take both of those down?

And as a side note. The weapons are not in the hands of a man but Military A.I., so I thinking it could predict movement.

>>13458983
Is there a pilot at all?

>>13458983
some kind of guided missile based on a MANPAD like a stinger or javelin would do the trick, or maybe just a MLRS like a rocket pod would also work

>>13458985


"My vision for the pilot just act as a big brother for advanced military A.I. The A.I will be doing all of the quick and humanly impossible evasive maneuvers and weapons firing. I was thinking that the A.I would display its targets and priorities on a hud system and the Pilot would pick and sort on what happens next."

What would be your approach? Am I going too far?
Maybe the A.I should just help the pilot out.

>>13458992
>ERA.
Would that be issue when fighting a tank?

>>13458996
Other way around. A.I takes care of the mundane bullshit like balancing, autowalking, gross bodily movement, pilot has fine control over torso, shoulder, elbow, and wrist movement.

>>13458983
>Tank
A tank's gun? As long as it goes through the armor and/or affect the crew, it doesn't really matter what you use. Hell, you can even try firebombing the shit out of a tank and cook the crew, or drop toxic gas at them and choke them out.
Hell, just look at the guns used in WWII to kill a tank, one of them was the 88mm AA gun, and the tank guns then were developed from AA guns that was very effective against tanks.

>plane
AA guns? Missiles?

>>13458999
Yes, but there are types of rocket/missile warheads intended to beat ERA.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tandem-charge

If the mech can carry something like those rocket pods that helicopters carry, then it could simply try to overwhelm the ERA with repeated fire, but that's not really efficient or practical. Still, a rocket pod for quantity of firepower would be useful to try and overwhelm active protective systems like trophy and arena mounted on tanks that try to shoot incoming rockets out of the air

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arena_%28countermeasure%29
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trophy_%28countermeasure%29

>>13459021
these are some ideas I'm just figuring out how much weight I could put on it. Movement is the mechs best feature. I don't want it to be over encumber the mechs speed or movement on the joints.


>>13459019

That seems like a neat idea. but it so hard on what chooses the weapons should be. I'm going to need to remember those defense systems.

>>13459000
trips. Alright. sounds good.

Has anybody thought about the issue of making it bi pedal? If the mech somehow shuts down it doesn't tip over and destroy itself? I was thinking the pilot just needs to flip a case and push a button for spikes on the legs to shoot it into the ground and hold it in place.

>>13459074
Seems kind of complicated to have to include harpoon and anchor systems just to keep a mech standing when not being used. Ideally there would be a lock that prevents limbs from moving freely when the mech is offline, other shows have mechs lying or kneeling in a special standby mode, such as the Scopedog.

>>13442976
Shittier than tanks with firepower like an IFV where the only real advantage is that it requires only one guy to work it, so much smaller forces can have more units on the field at one time

>>13459074
Depends on how tall you make it. Realistically, you shouldn't make it bigger than, say, 7-8 meters.

>>13459125
All that surface area would mean most of the parts would be only one or two parts deep. So if you can bullshit the cost you could spam mechs at problems.

>>13458983
>Ok, From a design standpoint I want this mecha to be able to take down a tank and a Jet.

There are a lot of things the mecha can mount to take out a tank. Most of them are already mounted on tanks or helicopters.

As for jets, good luck with that bruh

>>13461718
SAMs?

>>13460085
I'm trying to make it no bigger than 10 feet.

>>13461718
I'm wanting to resort to something fictitious now like a pile bunker


I just want make a sick as mech that does real stuff!

>>13462799
Pilebunker would make a nice sidearm. For planes, future-lasers, like the STAR WARS system, but much more powerful, would be just enough realism to justify.

>>13462799

A stake weapon is a last resort weapon against a tank, which can move as fast as you and fire guns as heavy as yours

Ideally you don't want to be anywhere that thing

>>13463523
I imagine that you'd want to close with tanks to counter their advantages. Getting into ATGM range, for example.

File: worker zaku.jpg (777KB, 1085x1772px) Image search: [Google]

777KB, 1085x1772px

>>13462914
I don't think pile bunker is the answer. I think it needs to be further developed. And do you know what is the most capable, versatile close combat weapon known to modern man?

The motherfucking trench shovel.

Take that, build a mecha-sized one out of plot-relevant armor materials, install it into a hard-striking pneumatic system like a pile bunker, and you have a weapon whose strike can collapse most IFV chassis and bend MBT gun barrels, break tracks and dislodge wheels, WHILE being able to quickly and effectively dig trenches, foxholes, pit traps, minefields et cetera in minutes thanks to the mech's physical qualities. You know how hard it is to dislodge or kill a tank in a prepared hull-down position is? Well, think of a hull-down mech in its own little turf-covered foxhole, with only its main gun and its applicable sensors poking out, surrounded by a field of steep trenches, tank traps and secondary fallback positions, with each circle of trenches filled with barb wire and claymore mines! And best of all, with its fancy pile shoveler, the mech can do all this by itself, unlike an armless tank!

>>13442976
What about having them be generally more powerful than tanks but have a major downside along the lines of Eva where they have to constantly be plugged to a main power source or else they have a ridiculously short amount of time before they power down?

>>13464770
We've already discussed hull down positions. Mostly, the legs make any random hill good cover. The shovel would be almost redundant if not for stretches of flat terrain.

The shovel in and of it'self is a decent polearm good for slashing and stabbing but it's not going to pierce tank hulls even with a pile bunker. Consider a jackhammer system instead. Constant chiseling will eventually crack the armor.

>>13464945
>The shovel would be almost redundant if not for stretches of flat terrain.

Ah, I see you haven't attended your civic duties yet.

>>13465001
What, like cleaning my lasgun or slaughtering the infidel?

>>13465429
Crawling around in the woods until your nuts become a permanent feature of the undergrowth. You won't understand the importance of being dug-in in the era of modern indirect fire systems unless you get it drilled into you by force.

>>13465570
Oh, well I figured the armor would block anything that being lightly dug in would protect against and anything the armor couldn't handle can't be defended against with just timbers and dirt.

File: Magella-HullDown2.jpg (18KB, 352x240px) Image search: [Google]

18KB, 352x240px

>>13464945
Even Gundam recognizes the usefulness of hull-down. Granted, it IS a tank, not an MS, but still, being able to dig in and hide something as large as a mech would be incredibly useful.

File: HESCIdisplay2.jpg (380KB, 800x531px) Image search: [Google]

380KB, 800x531px

>>13465570
I've got this mental image of mechs digging out an anti-tank trench and putting the dirt into Hesco Bastions

Ok guys what do you think about this as a first generation mech.

The mech will have a armored dress instead of armor on the legs this will keep the legs from being damaged while keeping armor off the legs which I feel could make them slow when stepping on terrain.

though one of the major flaws is that if it happened to run over a mine or a grenade rolled under it will be screwed. But I like that flaw.

So for the legs have a engine in each leg to power the ankles and knee joints, while a extra engine will help move the hips of the structure.

for movement the feet will be removed and have multi directional balls that will have a pattern similar to the bottom of the shoe.
The pattern act as tank treads to keep the mech from sinking or from getting stuck in muddy fields.

As for the torso I don't have anything.

For the head I wanted it be a 360 camera so it can keep view of all surroundings.

The arms I want to figure out a way to keep them low to the ground so the mech could pick up any weapons from downed soliders.
So what is your conclusion?

I'm mocking up some sketches incorporating a lot of these ideas. Will post them in here/drawthread soon.

>>13467964
That's cool. I was pitching out my ideas to see what my sketch compares to others.

Guess this is as good a thread as any to type this up.

I was playing with the idea of having a bipedal mech's arms, legs, and joints controlled by spools of high-strength cables that act like tendons, or a big marionette with the strings on the inside. That means that a lot of the major movement actuators can be stuffed closer to the cockpit, giving more control over placement for the center of gravity. This also means, for space use, room for CMGs or flywheels in the extremeties to help with cases of gimbal lock without resorting to thrusters, same idea as AMBAC except a lot more useful. Would also make maintenance a lot less of a headache.

Freeing up actuator space in the legs would give room for thrusters in the feet that go up through the ankles, and internal propellant storage and the like near attitude control or movement thrusters in the arms and legs.

Ideally I was thinking of using this for grunt mechs in a story that were around ~8 meters tall or so. As far as the joints, I was thinking of something like one of those jacobs ladder toys, basically a big plate with two pins, one going through the upper limb section and plate, the other, the lower limb section. A pair of opposed tendon cables are spooled on the upper limb section, go through the plate, and attach to a pickup on the lower limb section. Lets the limb fold over itself for storage, or to let a mech take a knee and sit on a heel to go low, for example.

It wouldn't work for every joint, of course, but moving some of the bigger, heavier actuators closer inboard is useful for a lot of things.

Given the right clearances, the joint could be armored too - in my story idea I was gonna throw plates with ERA on them.

Since the mechs I was picturing would take a knee a lot for cover (ie behind their sheilds, covering themselves and infantry) I was thinking of giving the grunt mechs a hydraulic pushed shin plate to help them get up faster from a kneeling position too.

>>13469152
bumping because I fell other people need to see this.

>>13470072
dunno, it's not that revolutionary. Probably the only big thing is the kick plates on the shins

>>13469152
I would use the strings for the hands for better dexterity but I'd leave the servos in the limbs. This would transfer more weight to the limbs which in turn would increase AMBAC effectiveness.

With more important parts in the limbs it would be easier to access them since the greater surface area would make most parts only one or two parts deep.

As attractive as flywheels are, they don't make the most of the mechs capabilities.

>>13472017
Flywheels and CMGs are sort of a necessity, on land or in space for a biped robot to keep it balanced and capable of attitude control. Gotta throw them somewhere.

>>13464728

I mean if your mecha can carry a gun big enough to defeat a tank's armor then you don't necessarily need ATGM

>>13472197
if you're talking a smaller mech below 10 meters you might not be able to put a cannon big enough to penetrate an MBT's frontal armor, and may not have the elevation to hit it from the top. A mechs' a good spot to stuff some javelins though

>>13472190
The entire point of AMBAC is that you don't need flywheels. The limbs do the same thing.

>>13474695
From a functional perspective, AMBAC is a joke compared to a good set of flywheels, but ultimately OP is asking about how to integrate mechs into a scifi tabletop, so realistic function is moot.

I think a mech that can crouch (not go prone) to about ~2.5-3 meters while carrying a few fixed and swappable weapons, anti ambush gear, and a stonking huge shield would be a dream for infantry conducting MOUT ops, especially in dense areas, or environmemts like relatively fragile space colonies where a large cannon would be overkill. Mechs would have the advantage of having a gun with high elevation too. This is probably the only niche they would excel in, but the loadout flexibility they provide as light support armor would make them handy for a rapid reaction force... which means MOTHERFUCKIN' AIRDROPPED MECHS

>>13474777
While 2.5-3 meters is pretty good, every time I tried to sketch it out I always ran into issues trying to fit a pilot in there. At 2.5 meters it makes more sense to just make powered armor. Not that there's anything wrong with Powered armor but it's not what we're looking for.

The best I've been able to do is about 5 meters, 4 if you take off the head and fold back the missile launchers. That's 2 meters for the legs and another 2 meters for the torso. A pilot could almost stand up in the thing if not for all the armor and avionics.

Also
>MOTHERFUCKIN' AIRDROPPED MECHS
You're thinking too small. The mech would be designed for both ground and space combat.
MOTHERFUCKIN' ORBITAL DROPPED MECHS

>>13475178

I know this sounds pretty stupid but its just an idea. Why not you put a some sort of armored casket on the back of the mech that acts as the pilots seat. You stand in their with a couple of control sticks and a few switches. The first mech was never meant to be a comfortable one

>>13475383
Sounds good, especially for a single seat vehicle like a mech. However, with internal space being at a premium it's going to be more like an ejection seat than an escape pod. No guerentees you'll escape with all your limbs either.

>>13475178
I think height wise you can make the cockpit tub about... ~1.5-1.8 meters total or so. Average sitting male is a bit shy of 1.4 meters, angle the seat back a bit and you get more space. Alternatively, you could do the coffin deal like >>13475383 suggests, which might actually give you a bit more room to play with.

I did some sketches for a story way back, it looked like I was able to get a mech ~8-9 meters tall to kneel down to about 3 meters. It did involve that jacob joint deal though, which helped as the knee could be overextended without compromising functionality. I seem to recall funky stuff going on at the hip too, but I don't have the skeches on me at the moment.

>>13476106
The coffin would have the pilot standing up so that's about 1.8m but if you want to use motion capture based controls (but with stirrups and waldos rather than cameras and gimp suits) you'd need more horizontal room. Even scaling the input means a good amount of space.

I'm not familiar with the jacob joint though. I mean Jacob's Ladders are one thing but I don't think there's any attractive force there.

>>13476870
Jacob's Ladder style joint is just kind of a mouthful

>>13476911
I get that, I just don't understand how to make a joint out of one, there's a repelling force due to like charges building up but there's no attractive force to hold things together. I don't see how the joint is supposed to work.

So, I'm having a hard time making the top half of my mech. Anybody have ideas or what would be appropriate for a first gen mech?

I could post my legs which doesn't have any armor because its going to covered by a skirt.

Would anyone like to see?

>>13477395
Yes. Make the body a squat, flat-ish brick, like the Scopedog upper body.

File: Untitled-2.jpg (83KB, 408x601px) Image search: [Google]

83KB, 408x601px

>>13477404
Right, the simpler the better.

Alright, These things aren't polished nor do they look pretty but here are my legs.

Balls for feet, a engine for each leg (located near the foot, the box shaped piece) which would support the speed. A tube that would send fuel to the leg engines and there will be an additional engine to move the joints when need be.

How does that sound as the first realistic mech?

>>13477526
Balls IN feet would be better. That way you can plant and walk when you have to, and use the trackballs for sprinting.

>>13477526
And I really just want this thing to support strong fire power and speed. As much speed as possible. I don't think a mech really needs armor if it can't be touched.

>>13477544
Right ok. I'll be sure to do that.

>>13477547
A mech will never move fast enough for that to be a reality. Even transforming mechs will need armor for when they're doing feet-down missions

>>13477547
You'll want 10-20mm RHA equivalent, though. Not enough to stop even autocannon rounds but enough that they'd need a dedicated anti-vehicle\anti-tank weapon to penetrate. No sense making a vehicle that suffers from suppressive fire.

>>13477526
We were actually discussing using the mech for space combat and then keeping the rockets for ground use. The hydrogen propellant can also double as a power source, fuel cells and what not. I was considering putting the thrusters on the feet since the pilots would be used to putting their weight over them.

Balls in the feet would be better for ground movement but it wouldn't do anything for space or aerial movement.

>>13477668
Replace balls and their motors with rockets and fuel tanks.

>>13477668
>>13477709

Right, I wanted to make a mech more relevant to today's standard in technology. But you have a better grasp on science then I do. I'll happily replace my motors with fuel tanks and replace my trackballs with rockets.

>>13477637
So you're telling me I can't make a mech similar to a Veyron?

>>13477750
No you dupe. I'm >>13477544. We were talking about adapting those legs for space use.

>>13477750
You sure? Wheelies are much more efficient for ground movement but trying to stuff both them and the rockets into one foot sounds a bit too much for a foot.

>>13477755
Nope. Veyron is pigfat heavy as it is, adding legs and arms would only make it worse.


Think of a role a mech would excel in (all I've come up with is infantry support in MOUT and multipurpose rapid reaction) and design for that role.

>>13477816
Eh, I don't see anything too wrong with stuffing traction motors and wheels into the feet of a mech.

>>13477868
I can't see how to fit it all together on one foot. Maybe as an accessory.

ah, why not go full Code Geas and make it wheelies attached behind the ankle.

>>13478233
Geass's shit makes no sense. You'd need wheels in both the back and front of the foot to make it work, otherwise you'd just end up spinning your wheels. The front of the foot acts as a brake.

>>13478233
Unpowered wheel at the ankle isn't a bad idea, saves weight if the mech is light enough.

>>13478307
Maybe if you moved it closer to the foot you can lift the mech partially off the ground.

hrm...tests.

>>13478788
Could you power the wheels with leg strength alone like a rollerblader or should we go with the rockets.

The rockets would give more power but pushing off might be more efficient.

>>13481239
>Def Jam Robo

FUND IT.

>>13481239
For a realistic setting, a pair of motorized wheels around where the balls of the mech's feet would be and an unpowered wheel at the ankle would make the most sense.

But what kind of monster would I be to call rocket powered roller skates for a mech a bad idea? That shit's awesome

>>13481754
Need to put rockets on both the back and the feet or they'll knock you over.

But how's the pilot going to balance that out, it's not like they've got a leg on their back to work with.

>>13482381
Shift CoG forward, fire up those CMGs and flywheels, and hope you don't tip over so much that you fall. Even walking is basically controlled falling, after all.

I'd imagine any setting using mechs with rocket skates will have thrusters on the mech's back anyway.

hey, guys. I'm the dude that posted the legs that have the trackballs for feet.

Right now, what I am thinking is to just have the balls be the heel of the foot while rockets will be in front of it, I also have a rock behind the ball for balancing purposes when space happens.

I was thinking the legs were in the hands of the A.I. so I'll have a camera on the pelvic area of the mecha and a spinning camera on top. This way the only thing the pilot has to do is hit the thruster button when in need of a jump.

>>13482946
>>13482714
Part of the selling point was that the mech so closely follows natural human movement that it takes little time to train a pilot.

Since the Mech has only a single pilot and that pilot doesn't need extensive training it makes the Mech very spammable. Throw rookies right out of boot into the cockpit and the skills they have as infantrymen will pass over to piloting a mech.

>>13481246
No, we aren't doing mech basketball.

That's already been done.

>>13485509
A. Def Jam is a rapper fighting game, not basketball
B. I meant Jet Set Radio, not Def Jam.

>>13442976
Giant mechs?
Construction and destroying large cities and bases. A HOLY SHIT NIGGA A MECH kind of situation.
A big no no for open field sky and sea battles.

Power suits? More versatile and useful for large fields with trees mountains and lakes.
Need to be high speed and maneuvarabilty bove anything else. Basically just one man massive weapon platforms that have the option of lifting heavy shit.

Know what, the stupid one size works everywhere thing going in mecha is boring and overplayed.

Even in gundam they had specialized suits for combat.

I want to see a mecha show with different kinds and sizes of mechs all created for certain pourposes.

Giant fuck off huge mechs which are just walking weapons platforms and smaller more agile ground mechs that are just battle armor

Light mechs designed to fly through the air. and outmaneuver missles.


The generic humanoid mechs will be seen as a liability

>>13485682
I have an idea you might like, I call it a War Walker and it's based on this one boss battle in Front Mission Evolved.

It's a Gigantic Mecha Turtle with a BFRailgun on it's back. Haven't figured out the idea height but the footprint is about 60mx60m. Armor is almost paper thin but it's got enough VLS batteries, SAM batteries, 30mm flak guns, and ATGM launchers to face off with a carrier group even before factoring in the railgun with SCRAM rounds.

Basically, I tried to make the ultimate mobile firebase. Not sure if I succeeded. Maybe I should have used a triple railgun turret.

>>13485743
Oh my, a target for anti-capitalship missiles!

The Chinese already have missiles that will ruin one of these' things day. Over land, you do not want one single thing concentrating firepower, it ends poorly.

>>13486138
And that is why it has canister railgun rounds.

>>13486344
...what? Having a certain type of round isn't going to change the fact that its a fuckhueg target that can get BTFO by rockets.

>>13486363
Haven't you heard, we can shoot down missiles these days. The PATRIOT was pretty finicky but it did score some kills. A railgun would be able to put even more shots into the air.

Actually, it would be more effective with fragmentation rounds than straight up canister. Still, even if that fails ship mounted anti-air missiles have been known to knock out anti-ship missiles now and then and countermeasures will be more effective with terrain to play off of.

>>13486553
Nah, the only way you can have that turtle mech work is if the shielding is ridiculously good ON TOP of the anti missle tech.

Otherwise it's just a sitting duck. I like the idea, and it's kind of what i"m talking about but it's way too big of a target and has bad shieldcing

Hey OP, I know this isnt much, but perhaps this might give you some inspiration of a "grounded" Mecha combat situation.

Best of luck with your universe

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7HMDaNhTTi8

>>13486564
Hmm...well the railgun mounting will need to be pretty robust so the armor plate can double as structural reinforcement.

Need to keep the weight down, though. Something this big will end up obscenely heavy.

>>13486989
(not OP) God, I have never seen this before. This looks so amazing. Seeing a Police Mecha. That would be a great Mecha Horror game. The only defense against kaiju is a mecha linked up to all the to the city's cameras and you can't function both the mecha's camera and the city camera's at the same time.

That is the only time I feel a state government would over spend on a single military product. Is if they had to fight kaiju.

>>13488452
Had an idea like that, mostly based on Atomic Robo's newest story arc.

The idea is that they needed something that could chase kaiju out of forests, cities, swamps, etc. Sure, they could simply blow up the entire area but they'd run out of planet before they run out of kaiju.

The goal was that they needed something that was bigger than infantry but could react faster than a tank. Mechs were developed because they react nearly as fast as the pilot.

>>13485517
I'm going to spend the next week trying to figure out how to weaponize spray paint.

Maybe lace it with RDX. Needs detonator. Thermite? Nah.

>>13442976
Lasers, railguns, or missiles?

>>13491694
Aerosol foamy explosive that uses atmo oxygen as it's accelerant?

File: artsfon.com-23500.jpg (616KB, 1366x768px) Image search: [Google]

616KB, 1366x768px

I'd actually recommend going for a sort of 'Appliance' Robot design in Shadowrun. Not a sleek military thing, but something that looks like moving garbage. It'll fit the role of brute muscle, using it to smash through vehicles and wield shields and bigger guns, but I won't feel too bad about abandoning it.

Think of the robot from the first Judge Dredd movie.

>>13442976
A squad support mech would be a lot more agile than a tank and would be better with minefields etc. You could have them adapted to different environments where wheels and tracks are no good or you could just say because they have advanced tech they've made mechs. No one would question that.

>>13443022
>'Hmmm, I know I'll become a tripfag, everyone loves tripfags. But where to post? Well I hate mecha so I'll enlighten the fools of /m/'