How do I convince autistic nerds to accept Death of the Author

Split the question

>>9956851
Tolkien's foreword to the 2nd edition of LoTR.

>>9956868
Altruistic reasons: I want others to have a healthier, more fulfilling and more enjoyable relationship with fiction.

Selfish reasons: I hate losing debates, which I do constantly because the other side has tons of "evidence" in the form of links and quotes and screenshots, while all I have are some abstract ideas that I struggle to put into words.
I also like to participate in the discourse and I hate having to wade through tons of very passionate, very well-prepared but completely useless discussions to get to something good.

>You know you're right, so why do you need to convince others?
Why did you write your post?

File: d063ee5125b0fdaf_medium.jpg (74KB, 636x750px) Image search: [Google]

74KB, 636x750px

How would you reconcile the statement that the Metal Gear Solid universe exists within, both, the Monster Hunter universe AND the Frito-Lay universe?

This is something I have failed to convince people that they are separate.

>>9956851
Slash is a pretty easy way.

I really do not give a shit what you the author or anyone else. The two characters are gay and repressing their feelings. I have many ways to take a heterosexual love interest and and reinterpret to support my shipping.

>>9956851
Isn't Star Wars itself the best case study for that? Simply because Disney -bought- the rights they now are able to determine the state of the canon.
What if Disney goes bankrupt and a multibillionaite, who hates SW, acquires the rights and declares only the Prequels and the Holiday Special as canon? Will all the Disney-drones accept the new status quo?

I don't quite see what interpretation has to do with that though. On matters of official canonicity there's only Word of God. Do you subscribe to the official canon or not?

You say that you do not ignore authorial insight altogether, so why do you dismiss an interview from 10 years ago? I assume the interview wasn't entangled in IP law business?

I think it would help if you could provide a concrete example, OP.

>>9957431
>Do you subscribe to the official canon or not?
I do or do not based on my choice.
Suspension of disbelief is what makes fictional stories "real" and it happens in the audience's head, not the author's. If I want to declare an Official Sequel™ to be non-canon and instead uphold my fanfiction as the "real" continuation of the story, that is a valid choice (whether it's a good choice depends on the quality of the fanfiction, of course).

>You say that you do not ignore authorial insight altogether, so why do you dismiss an interview from 10 years ago? I assume the interview wasn't entangled in IP law business?
I don't dismiss it, I just don't uphold it as Word of God.

>concrete example
Rowling declaring Dumbledore to be gay long after the last book was written.
Bethesda "shrinking" the areas described in previous games and making them much smaller, declaring such descriptions to be "just legends".,
Disney dismissing the Expanded Universe books as non-canon.

In all of the above, there are people who didn't like the above choices because they would affect future sequels (which is a valid complaint), but there are also people who are offended that their personal interpretations ("headcanons") were destroyed, which is a really stupid complaint and copyright holders should not be given that power.

>>9957431
for star wars, I just think that the canon status of stories is only a way for us to know what is relevant for a story, in the same canon-stories-composed-universe
for exemple you can choose to take in account stories from the extended universe while reading EU stories, but it would be retarded to watch the force awakens while thinking about stories from the EU because it was made in a universe where the EU is not canon

>>9956851
Why are arguing about movies made to sell products to children with nerds?

>>9956851
Ask them what they think of Mein Kampf. If they think it's racist and evil, then tell them that's not the author's interpretation.

If your friend is racist and evil, try one of Obama's books or something.

>>9958459
Made me laugh out loud, though it sounds like something you could easily refute along the lines of "evil is subjective and although it's evil by my standards it may not be by his, still evil though by my standards", whereas two gay characters etc isn't really subjective in the same way. Either the characters, were they alive, would be attracted to men or they wouldn't. As for the racist part I'm sure Hitler wouldn't deny that, though I guess if for the sake of argument he did we could still clearly see how it was racist because it fits the definition of racist.

It'd be like a character being described as being attracted to male characters and then having it claimed he was straight, in which case fuck the author indeed.

>>9958330
It's valid enough to ignore the author's claims, but when the author is clear (such as stating a few months after the last book was released that she had "always" thought of Dumbledore as gay"), then you should examine your motivation for disagreeing with the author, and what it means to how you interpret texts. I disagree with Rowling's "I never said Hermione was white" bullshit because of the mountain of evidence that suggests she had always thought of the character that way. Dumbledore being gay, however, makes his backstory much more logical.

>>9956851
I don't get why people MUST always listen to their corporate overlords.
Why is important that something is or isn't canon?
Disney and JJ want me to think that Luke had a middle age crisis after becoming a failed teacher, Leila and Han had a bitter divorce, that the Republic after the whole evil empire thing couldn't spot the 3rd fucking moon sized planet destroyer weapon built by space nazis (which, by the way, was another trillions credits and manpower dumped into nothing and this time couldn't even move around because it's fucking orbiting around a star) and that I must care for desert girl, "funny" black guy and a mexican of whom I barely know his name? Why? Why should I care? The trench run didn't happen? No "Luke I'm your father"? The story didn't tie up all loose ends? How can Disney stop me from just rewatching episodes IV to VI? Why should I give a flying fuck that Lucas wanted to cash a 4 billion dollar check?
imo everything just ended on the forest moon of endor with a party, fireworks, some strange teddy bears and dead people talking.

Also this >>9958419
Star Wars is a product for children and adolescents. If I want to get that sweet sweet nostalgia I call my close friends, roll a joint, and just rewatch the original trilogy

>>9958330
>>9958761
Canonicity does have its merits. If lots of people are working on a whole universe that attempts to be semi-consistent, then the establishment AND enforcement of rules does have its uses.
As a reader you can 'rely' on the story mostly fitting within an established framework. Compare it to puzzling with two different sets. At some point inconsistencies and errors will be too glaring and spoil your enjoyment.

To use Star Wars as an example - it would've been wrong to not take any stance at all on the matter of canon. Of course it sucks that years worth of additional, arguably superior, content has been 'wiped' from the Disney continuation. But then again, it's not gone. None of the stories can become untold. All that's changed is their label.

Regarding Dumbledore. That's a take-it-or-leave it situation. Personally it annoys me much more that something so... drastic was dropped on Twitter. If I was an author, everything I wanted to be part of a story, I would include with that story.
What next? Will Harry be Voldemort's projection after Rowling has a stroke and messages her therapist on Whatsapp?

>>9957101
>How would you reconcile the statement that the Metal Gear Solid universe exists within, both, the Monster Hunter universe AND the Frito-Lay universe?
>This is something I have failed to convince people that they are separate.

Gonna need some context for all that.

>>9957101
prove to me that we don't exist inside the metal gear universe

You are an autistic nerd, OP.

>>9957431
>only the Prequels and the Holiday Special as canon?
You mean the sequels and the holiday special?

is the author merely a medium through which art is constructed out of circumstance