>Jaime is good guy no really >First thing he does is push

And then the rest of the story happens.

>>9894135
Yes,

I believe it's called character development

>He still subscribes to the good guy/bad guy dichotomy

>>9894198
Fuck postmodernism and fuck white people

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>>9894198
>Implying Danny is not a shit and won't be an authoritarian prick like her father
Don't worry though because luckily there is a horde of zombies which will magically unite the continent. Guys, this is how we achieve world piece, we gotta focus on fighting the zombies guys.

>>9894199
what the fuck are you talking about
read a book faggot.

I am more than ok with incest.

>>9894236
I am only okay with incest where the people fucking are pretty to look at.

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>>9894109
>Jaime is good guy no really
agreed
>First thing he does is push a seven year-old out of a window
and? little shit would have gotten him, his children, and his sister killed
>Second thing he does is order his men to pointlessly murder Ned's men in a street after acknowledging that he gains nothing by hurting Ned
Showing his strength and also weakening his force and him at the same time? sounds good to me.

>>9894109
Ask me how I know you read only part 1.

>>9894717
>ahowing his strength
ah yea, like that time he got his hand chopped like a bitch?

such an intimidant super macho

>>9894222
>an authoritarian prick like her father
Or any other ruler?

>>9894851
How do you redeem murdering Ned's men for no reason?

>lit

>>9896475
>implying you can be redeemed after murdering someone
>implying it matters in a world where everybody is a murderous dickhead
Is there a POV character beyond Sansa who didn't murder anyone?

>>9896475

1) There was a reason for the confrontation. Catelyn had taken Tyrion prisoner. This was effectively a declaration of war between House Stark and House Lannister.
2)There are many paths to redemption. Jaime's own path has been the gradual renunciation of violence and the machinations of his family, and the multiform attempts to protect and provide for the youngest members of the family he helped destroy.

>>9896495
Bran

>>9896596
Didn't he kill Hodor by using him as a doorstopper? (That shit is pretty much canon)

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>>9894109
>500 threads on /tv/ aren't enough, we also must shit up /lit/ as well!

>>9896596

Bran keeps a half-giant idiot as his personal slave and ate his friend, Jojen Reed.

>>9894109
>muh black and white moralism
>muh lack of understading what character development is

Autism speaks through OP

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>>9896596

During Bran's journey to the wall, he warged into Summer multiple times in order to hunt. Victims of this hunt included members of the Night's Watch which, as Summer, he proceeded to eat. Bran is as much a murderer as any Predator Drone operator, as much as Tywin Lannister is, and includes a taste for cannibalism.

>>9896378
Considering those men were killed for it I would say yes.

>>9894109
You have a fucking containment thread for this trash, take it there.

Those books are garbage.

>>9896604
>REEEEEEE a book series has a tv adaptation so said books can never be talked about!!!!!!

>>9894109
>wat is character development

so let me ask you gernrefags something while you're all here in this /pleb/ thread

GOT is a series renowned for it's gritty realism. when I ask people why it's good they tell me "because it's realistic" (I guess they think everyone in the middle ages was a sadistic rapist) but there are countless episodes where the good guys are surrounded on all sides and all hope is lost and DEUS EX MACHINA their friends come and save them. why is this?

>>9898557

Because you are referring to a television program, and they are referring to the books.

>>9898600
>fat pink mast

>>9896495
>Is there a POV character beyond Sansa who didn't murder anyone?
Sansa essentially killed her father by being a snitch, and is in many ways a sociopath. I'm sure she'll kill somebody before the end.

>>9898557
I don't know anything about the show, so I can't speak to that.

>>9896495
>Is there a POV character beyond Sansa who didn't murder anyone?
A few (especially one-off POVs), although it depends on your definition of murder for most. Does self-defense count? How about an Other? Because that's all Sam has killed.

I dont care about the "bad things".
Jaime is one of the best and complex characters of the show.

>>9896495
> Ned dindu nuffin wrong
> Bran dindu nuffin wrong
> Jon dindu nuffin wrong
> Brienne dindu nuffin wrong
> Davos dindu nuffin wrong
> Sam dindu nuffin wrong
> Arya debatably dindu nuffin wrong

>>9894109
>Be Eddard Stark
>The line between right and wrong is always clear
>Some of yours responsibilities as a king are hard but you have the reassurement that people will respect you if you follow the rules
>You don't think too much about the moral nuances of your actions, and if you do you don't change anything anyway because things are comfortable as they are
>You're judgemental and find pride in being perceived as a moral authority
>You were so obsessed with decorum that it led to your death and the partial destruction of your house, all because you were too arrogant to see beyond your nose
>The one time you faced something close to a moral dilemma, you decided to lie to your adopted son and your wife, bringing suffering to both, so you could save your own ass
>Everyone thinks you're the most honorable man of Westeros

>Be Jaime Lannister
>The line between right and wrong is never clear
>You have to face difficult moral dillemas and you're often stigmatized for doing what is right
>You carry the guilt of your actions by yourself and you act as a cocky bastard so your loved ones don't have to suffer with you
>You sacrifice your honor to save the realm
>You're willing to kill a little boy to save your family
>You're the only one who cares about Tyrion, despite being shamed for doing so
>You were willing to risk your life for the sake of the realm by asking Robb to end the war just between the two of you so innocent men didn't have to die
>Everyone thinks you're an unhonorable piece of shit

The point of Jaime is to deconstruct the black and white morality of chivalric romances, represented by Ned.
I haven't read the books, though.

>>9898924
>The one time you faced something close to a moral dilemma, you decided to lie to your adopted son and your wife, bringing suffering to both, so you could save your own ass

tell them whose Jon's father truly is and Bobby goes apeshit

>>9898934
He didn't have to tell everyone, just Jon, so he didn't have to ruin his life joining the Night Watch, and Cat, so she didn't feel betrayed and treated Jon like shit because of it.

>>9898942
It's possible that telling Jon could have ruined his life, as he'd never be able to claim his heritage. I think Ned took the kinder and wiser route. Assuming Jon is what we think.
And how was it saving his own ass? I'm sure it absolutely killed the honorable Eddard to claim a bastard, but he did it anyway, for the sake of his sister and her son.

>>9898942
what else could have Jon done with his life lol
he can't reveal his lineage, because either they'd kill him or use him as a piece to instigate another war with the excuse of "putting the rightful heir on the Throne"

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>>9894236
>>9894309

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>>9894222

>there is a horde of zombies that will magically unite the continent
>we gotta focus on fighting the zombies guys

So you're saying GRRM stole all his shit from Alan Moore?

reminder that Jaime did nothing wrong

>>9899377
was thinking the same thing. Its a convenient plot tool, but a little overused. Hopefully the night king has an interesting back story. Would be nice if his conquest of westeros was in someway justifiable and not just because he is the embodiment of evil.

>>9898557
I don't like it because it's realistic I like it because I want to watch the fight scenes and get m knight shamalamadingdonged at the increasingly retarded twists.

>>9899377
no, because in this story, things are about to go to shit, because they can't unite against the threat

(((talking about the books, not the show)))

>>9894222
>>9899377
>>9899391

There is no Night King in the books. There won't be a final stand off between all of Westeros and the Others. Dany is going to die.

>>9898924
>The one time you faced something close to a moral dilemma, you decided to lie to your adopted son and your wife, bringing suffering to both, so you could save your own ass
He didn't lie to about Jon Snow's real parents to save his own hide, he did it because Robert Baratheon would literally murder him in the crib.

>>9898942
What's the point in that?
As far as Ned is concerned the war is over, House Targaryen is dead and all we can do now is move on. It's better for everyone if they all think Jon Snow is just another lord's bastard and thinks no more of it.

> so he didn't have to ruin his life joining the Night Watch
1. The Night's Watch didn't ruin his life.
2. If he knew he was a secret Targaryen he'd probably be even more likely to join on the count that if anyone ever found out who he was for whatever reason he'd be a dead man. Whereas Eamon Targaryen got to live out his life in peace at the wall.

He could also potentially ruin his life for real by doing something stupid like trying to claim the throne.

>>9899414
>He didn't lie to about Jon Snow's real parents to save his own hide, he did it because Robert Baratheon would literally murder him in the crib.
He didn't have to tell Robert.

>The Night's Watch didn't ruin his life.
Come on, there's a reason why the send the criminals to the wall.

>If he knew he was a secret Targaryen he'd probably be even more likely to join
It's possible, but Ned took that choice away from him.

>He could also potentially ruin his life for real by doing something stupid like trying to claim the throne.
This is true, but even if Ned thought Jon would be so stupid to do something like that, he still could have told Cat the truth. He could have also asked Robert to legitimize him.

There was no reason for Ned to let Jon grow up feeling so alienated other than to push him to join the Night Watch.

>>9898869
>Jaime is one of the best and complex characters of the show.
How's that? They made him a lot less interesting and all but linear. He's still sucking Cersei's cock despite being given countless reasons not to, how is that a good character?

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>>9899377
>So you're saying GRRM stole all his shit from Alan Moore?
Pretty sure the idea predates Moore.

The enemy of my enemy is my friend, etc...

>>9894198
No matter how much Martin trirs to hide it, it's present in his work.

>>9901243
But what was Aragorn's tax policy? We're suppose to believe Gondor just accepted him and flourished because he's the chosen one?

He's nothing like Danny, a 14 year old girl who has inspired unyielding devotion in a massive tribe of eastern savages who rape as easily as breathe and who now obey her word as divine law while she dismantles the basic tenets of their society and livelihood as she frees the slaves of the world with a snap of her fingers undoing thousands of years of cultural norms despite being totally disenfranchised as both a foreigner and a woman. This while she prepares the conquest of another land she's never so much as stepped foot to but which she knows belongs to her and which she will undoubtedly win.

>>9898522
Genre fiction should not be discussed on a literature board.

>>9901286
kek. i haven't watched the show, but i'm pretty sure the main girl with dragons is supposed to be the villain.

if martin/d&d pull this off, it will be the prank of the century. think of how many babies have already been named "daenerys" and registered for social security.

>>9901355
Can you copy and paste this in the Against the Day threads? I'm getting sick of it.

>>9894109
That helmet has so many serious design flaws.

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Is this the literature board?

>>9896615
nice try fedora cuck

>>9894109
>seven year-old
a seven year old incarnation of an ancient evil spiritt with a bunch of evil demonic powers

>>9896495
melisandre

>>9901432
name seven.

>>9902462
Limited vision
No way to remove visor
front neck extremely vulnerable
Sides of neck extremely vulnerable
Mouth is extremely vulnerable
Looks like it's made of very thin metal
Strap looks like it's choking him

>>9902490
the visor actually opens up like window shutters from the center so that's 6

>>9902442
ummm no sweetie

>>9902729
she never killed anyone

>>9902683
Alright well the helmet as a whole looks incredibly loose and easily fucked with. Looks like it'd shake all over if you tried to actually move with it on.

>>9902791
thanx brah

>>9902490
>Limited vision
So... like most medieval European helmets?
>sides of the neck
>mouth
>front neck
Those are basically just 1 point. The helmet is incredibly opened from the nose down.
>thin metal
Only on this pic. In general it does not.
>Strap looks like it's choking him
>helmet looks loose
Those two points don't go well together.

Nice try but you failed.

>>9904106
>It sucks
That's only one point. All points are fundamentally the same. In a certain reference frame, distances converge to zero while the time axis becomes consumed by a single point. All reference frames are valid.

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>>9901237
It'll make the point he finally turns on her that much more impactful. Too bad by then it will also be farcical, something like, a grain of sand atop a mountain being the tipping point of weight. All of the characters in the show are significantly dumber and less interesting than their canonical counterparts.

>>9904106
Limited vision was only a problem when I thought you couldn't open the hatch.
That's not one point. Many pieces of armor protect certain sides of the body more than others. This neglects all sides of the neck. If it protected the left side I'd say, "offers good protection of left side of neck, so good for a right hander and offers more mobility but doesn't protect against a blow from the right. He has to be conscious of that, etc."
The strap and helmet being loose thing are not connected, because the fucking helmet is loose and the strap is tight....... That strap is supposed to keep it on the head, it does nothing to stop it from going back and forwards.

Fuck off.

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>>9902490
>>9904106

Sometimes I wonder if the whole series won't end with the Others winning and the whole world being plunged into everlasting cold. It seems like the sort of thing Martin would do, and would anyone REALLY feel bad for any of the remaining characters if they all fucking died? Everyone left is a monster. Fuck em all.

>>9901218
>He didn't have to tell Robert.
Of course he doesn't have to tell Robert, but he's taking a risk by telling anyone including Jon Snow and Cat. Ned Stark has no way of knowing what's going to happen in the future so the safest thing for everyone is to just keep it a secret from everyone.

And he was right to. If Cat knew Jon Snow wasn't Ned's bastard at all but a Targaryen pretender and instead of going to the wall to escape his bastardy he was just chilling in Winterfell why wouldn't she trade him over to the Lannisters in exchange for Sansa and Arya? They'd be far more interested in probably the best claimant for the Targaryen loyalists there is than her otherwise unimportant daughters.

And more importantly Lyanna told Ned "Don't tell anyone" and he promised her he would not. Ned being an honourable man isn't going to break a promise to his sister no matter how justifiable it might be.

>Come on, there's a reason why the send the criminals to the wall.
Because no one wants to sit on a giant ice-cube for the rest of their lives waiting for arctic hillbillies to try and murder them. Jon Snow on the other hand thought that sounded like an opportunity for heroic adventure, and that's exactly what he got.

>It's possible, but Ned took that choice away from him.
His mother took that choice away from him when he told Ned not to tell him.

>This is true, but even if Ned thought Jon would be so stupid to do something like that, he still could have told Cat the truth. He could have also asked Robert to legitimize him.
1. As mentioned earlier Cat is even more liable to do something stupid with that information than Jon is.
2. Legitimizing Jon would piss off Cat to no end as this would make him a potential claimant to Winterfell over Robb since it's unclear when Jon which is older. And there's also political concerns which Cat brings up when Robb considers naming Jon as his heir that Jon Snow's future heirs could become the Northern version of the Blackfyres even if Jon Snow himself would be fine.

>There was no reason for Ned to let Jon grow up feeling so alienated other than to push him to join the Night Watch.
Ned didn't, Ned raised him as if he was his own son. It was Cat and the general societal view of Bastardy that pushed him away.

All in all Jon Snow turned out better than Theon, who despite not being a bastard still had a conflict of identity of Stark vs. Greyjoy that wound up ruining his life anyway.

>>9899377
Not really, the plotline of "Ancient evil awakens, everyone else must put aside the bullshit and fight it" is very old. It's basically the plot of Lord of the Rings as well.

The innovation of Watchmen is that the ancient evil awakening was deliberately engineered by one of the "good guys" to get this to happen. Which no one did in ASOIAF.

>>9904448
>White Walkers win
>All the shitty characters get killed horribly
>All the good characters are brought back to life as immortal Wights
How is this not a happy ending?

>>9904505

>ozymandias was an accelerationist

>>9901286
>We're suppose to believe Gondor just accepted him and flourished because he's the chosen one?
Yes? That's basically Tolkien's mission statement.

>Fuck all this politics and industrial civilization shit. Let's just be chill godly people.

There's no room for cynicism in middle-earth. Yes Gondor just accepted him and flourished because he's the chosen one, what of it?

>>9904545
t. never read TLotR

>>9901286
>But what was Aragorn's tax policy?
Kill all the orc babies, right in their little orc cribs.

>>9898676
nah, ned wa mou shindeiru

>>9898676
>and is in many ways a sociopath
name 1

her story was constantly a normal person put into an extraordinary situation

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>>9894198

if my intent is to cause you bodily harm for no other reason than my sadistic enjoyment and callous disregard for the dignity of life, you will see me as the bad guy, you sophist moron.

>>9907371
No, I will see you as another subjective entity pursuing their own interest.

>>9907374
then you clearly demonstrate that you have no real understanding of good and evil

>>9901432

I hate the tacky "fantastical" outfits they have in these shows. Like for some reason everything has to have leather straps on it.

>>9907388
>being this spooked

>>9907391
Really? I wish the outfits were a little more tacky and colourful. Everyone just wears black leather in the newer seasons.

>>9902784
She killed Renly Baratheon and Cortnay Penrose, not to mention Lord Sunglass and the others she sacrificed to the flames.

>>9907364
>name 1
She lacks empathy. Consider her reaction to Hugh of the Vale's death. The kid is drowning on his own blood a few feet in front of her, and she's cool as a cucumber....she's fascinated to watch her first man die, while Jeyne Poole is screaming her head off next to her.
There's 1.

>>9908039
>screams and gasps
https://youtu.be/emxAQduEjCE
yep sociopath

>>9901286
gondor flourished under aragorn because it is the restoration of monarchy after a republican period

the hobbits are a kingless people, simple, analogues for the welsh. as their society developed under the influence of the men, they adopted republicanism and floundered

tolkien read carlyle

>>9904448
So it will all end with a nuke that destroys everything basically? that doesn't make any sense and isn't a good conclusion to the story.

>>9898557
The show is retarded, the books are too (how the fuck does a crop-cycle work with decade long summers and winters?) but the show is beyond excusable. Anybody who likes GoT for realism is a pleb.

>>9907875
As it is we have the worst of both worlds. The costumes don't look practical or visually interesting. Half of the cast look like punk-rockers or renaissance fair larpers.

>>9901425
Get fucked, faggot.

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>>9904448
>eventually all the living manage to unite against the dead
>they still lose

Hopefully.

>>9898557
>>9908731
I'm pretty sure that when people say that GoT is realistic, all they mean is that protagonists die and it has rape in it.

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>>9908869
Pretty much. Sex and violence are the only reasons to watch that show so it would make sense.