how is it possible to be an atheist and not believe in free will?

>>9890924
>to defeat the cosmological argument, you have to deny the ontological existence of causality
No
>and with that, physical determinism goes out the window.
No

>>9890951
please, provide another argument against the cosmological argument for god, and try to say free will is an illusion without mentioning determinism or causality

>>9890960
That's not how this works larpbro.

>provide another argument against the cosmological argument for god
We neither know whether the universe had a beginning nor what was before.
>without mentioning determinism or causality
Why? You don't even have the slightest idea how arguing or logic works. I swear reading WLC instantly decreases one's IQ 30 points.
m.phys.org/news/2012-10-quantum-causal.html
On a quantum level things can cause themselves.

The cosmological argument is not an argument for theism. It just means any cause. Physically, or metaphysically.

You just spout a bunch of quotes you picked up without understanding them.
How about YOU try to explain how the 2 are contradictory?
Of course this would require you to actually understand what you are saying so I guess that won't happen

>>9891003
if you dont see the contradiction in the original post, just leave the thread

>>9891026
He told you that on a quantum level things can cause themselves, can't you read? If this is true, your cosmological argument is meaningless, for it does not really relate to reality.
The prima causa argument is based on a physical speculation, if that speculation refers to a diaproven theory the whole argument falls off.

>>9891044
do you think the original post is arguing for the cosmological argument?

>>9891055
Exactly. Physical Determinism is out of the window.

>>9891055
The original argument implies that the cosmological argument is a problem atheists have to deal with, yet scientific knowledge seems to tell us otherwise.

>>9890924
Give yourself time to grow up and think things out for yourself instead of making embarrassing posts like this. You'll get there eventually.

>>9891115
>>9891063
How do so many people think OP is making the ontological argument? Reading comprehension on /lit/...

>>9891242
Why is OP talking of himself in the third person?

>to defeat the cosmological argument, you have to deny the ontological existence of causality
You didn't just make the argument you presupposed it to be valid and be infallibly valid if causality exists which is wrong on so many levels.

>>9891291
pathetic

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>>9890924
If we are making a philosophical discussion, I dont care.

If we are talking about Sam Harris, he is a biological determinist, as made clear in his last podcast. We lack free will because we are animals and slaves to our biology and environment. Which is fucking stupid, pic related.

>>9891044
>he told you

hi samefag

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>>9891003
>On a quantum level things can cause themselves.
>Making truth claims about quantum anything in 2017

AHAHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA WEW WEW WEWE WEW AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHAHHAHAHAHAHAHA

holy reddit

>>9891985
>We lack free will because we are animals and slaves to our biology and environment. Which is fucking stupid
I kind of agree with this but still find his claim ridiculous just because it's so absolute. "We lack free will". Our free will is IMO highly limited by those factors (biology, environment) but it's not a yes or no answer.

>>9892078
I agree with you on the macro scale, but on the micro scale, I can put a red and blue marble on the table, and determine which I will pick up. I might even decided to pick up the one that I dont like.

>>9892086
of course, that's what I meant
his "no free will" is so unnuanced it makes him look like an idiot

Friendly reminder that although determinism is circling the drain in the field of physics, that doesn't necessarily nullify deterministic philosophies like Hobbes'

>>9890924
>how is it possible to be an atheist and not believe in free will?
Anyone who believes we're being puppeteered by whichever force is on some disney shit desu

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determinism is redditor shit

we have free will retards

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>to defeat the cosmological argument, you have to deny the ontological existence of causality,
please stop deluding yourself. i get it, being religious feels punk rock these days but you're just being a fool.

>>9892283
Agreed. To say we are the product of our environment and surroundings is almost (I say almost) the basic foundation of determinism.

That is basically hell.