Was this the worst thing that happened to literature in the past

>>9826103
They are annoying. I don't see why it's bad for literature though lol.

I'd argue that it's the worst thing that has ever happened to literature.

are hp books still popular in america?
here in poland barely anyone remembers them

>equating pop culture with serious literature

This is like saying capeshit has ruined film

>>9826148
They're still popular and widely read/remembered in Western Europe, especially among basic bitches.

>>9826103
>It isn't so much that the books are bad (they are) but the fandom which followed and how they interpret the real world through the Harry Potter books.

How is this different from books, and sacred texts, historically speaking?

Won't the followings of contemporary literature (and the contemporary study of literature as an organised discipline) fall prey to the same general tendencies that our ancestors demonstrated when they read and studied, for instance, the bible?

The worst thing isn't so much something happening to literature, as these tendencies (in one form or another) have been around for a long time. I would say it is the culture at the moment which makes the application of Harry Potter so insufferable. Harry Potter is such an arbitrary fiction which asymptotically resembles life and myths and other literature... but inevitably falls short into a hollow, stilted fairy tale world where everything is just too simple and too perfect.

One of the interesting readings I remember about Harry Potter was that it was basically a child's consumerist power fantasy.
>harry left all the money he would ever need, no parents
>constantly receiving incredible gifts, the latest broomstick, the perfect fitting sweaters, the invisibility cloak, etc.
>constantly discovering new sensory delights in the wizarding world... interesting candy and collectibles, pranks, spells, etc.

That is what I think about when I see people using Harry Potter to read the world. That really, they are just reaching back into their childhood and their idealisms and trying to frame things in a simple way. As if in their mind there are infinite indulgences and a vague structure of good vs. evil from when their parents read Harry Potter to them. And when faced with greyness, with complexity, with the wobbly times of individual and collective humanity, they recoil and whimper "this isn't what harry potter said life would be like".

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>>9826187
good post

>>9826149
Capeshit is the best thing to have happened to Kino since Kubrick. The eventual backlash and counterculture will be free of Hollywood.

>>9826148
As the other anon said they are still popular and will forever be popular to teens. In theur minds is either you are a chad who plays football and parties hard crushing pussy or you are AN INDIVIDUAL.tm that "reads". Since reading can be done with any book why would you choose a philosophical work or a cornerstone of literature like Ulysses when you can blast trough a few HP books and join the fandom and be all INDIVIDUALS.tm in a group.

The fandom is atrocious. They mindlessly worship these books and act like they're the greatest thing that happened to literature. They also love the worst characters for some reason and somehow so many of them love the movies but complain about the dumbest shit (Dumbledore yelling) even though the movies are full of scenes that are OOC.

Trump is Voldemort.

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Was this the worst thing that happened to literature in the past 50+ years? It isn't so much that the book is bad (it is) but the fandom which followed and how they interpret the real world through the Bible.

>>9826103
>Was this the worst thing that happened to literature in the past 50+ years?

my diary desu

>>9826148
Hijacking this shit thread because I've been looking for a Polish anon. Do Poles remember Jerzy Żuławski? I just saw 'On the Silver Globe' and I think that it's easily one of the best science-fiction movies ever made. There's no English translation of the books unfortunately so I can't really learn much more about it.

>>9826187
>How is this different from books, and sacred texts, historically speaking?
Most sacred texts provide a good guide for life.

Harry Potter allows you to fit the good and bad guys in the book over the neoliberal politician du jour and DRUMPF respectively.

>>9826103
No, it was the gateway to lit for a lot of people, including me

>>9826103
television

>>9826976
This, if 1 in 10000 people that read harry potter pick another book becausr of it then its a clear win for literature

>>9826769
This. How often do you find a HP fan who truly appreciates white nationalism and having women return to the kitchen? These days theyve been brainwashed by rowling.
We need a redpilled Harry Potter.

>>9826337
Are you sure about that? What if the alternative to formulaic comic book movies is formulaic video games movies for example

>>9827012
So I'm assuming the book would urge its readers to do labor for glory and country or some spooked bullshit instead of wasting your time shitposting online?

>>9826103
No, it was actually capitalism, it's why shit like this exists.

>>9826769
Trump IS the neoliberal politician du jour, he's just cosplaying as a nationalist

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Literacy was the worst thing to happen to literature

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>>9827012
>How often do you find a HP fan who truly appreciates white nationalism and having women return to the kitchen?
I read hp as a kid and Im the person you're describing

They're good books. If they were so horrible, there would already be a fantasy series which is better, but there isn't and HP succeeded in transcending genre boundaries. I don't see how Rowling's retarded worldview makes the books bad. Tolkien had retarded politics and made a masterpiece, it doesn't fucking matter. Why are you faggots so obsessed with social status of literature?

>>9827305
This smug anime is correct

>>9827012
>theyve been brainwashed by rowling
>We need a redpilled Harry Potter
So instead of their "brainwashing" it's your brainwashing

>>9826103

I used to hate Harry Potter but it's pointless. If these grown up people weren't reading Harry Potter they'd simply be watching something inane instead, not reading highbrow literature.

the books aren't even bad though. they're mediocre, but competently written.

prove me wrong. you fucking can't.

>>9826632
DIDJAPUCHANAMEINAGOBLEHUFIYA

Think of the millions of trees that were cut and the carbon released from running the factories and transportation. All so children could consume intellectual poison and fill the pockets of Rowlingstein Co.

>>9826103

no, probably video games have done far worse

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>>9827414
>fandom spergs out over this scene
>meanwhile Ron being dumb is OK
>Hermione flying a broom is OK
>Snape being calm and cold is OK

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>>9826632
>>9827414
>>9827604

>>9827423
Literally 1000 times more bibles have been printed.

>>9828230
You mean 100x? 1000x would be over 500 billion Bibles. Anyway, I made the distinction of HP being intellectual poison. There's nothing wrong with printing important books.

>>9828260
The Bible is the single biggest piece of fiction that had has a detrimental effect on knowledge and science, it is the worst intellectual poison ever written.

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>>9828281
If it weren't for the Bibble we'd have colonies on sunspots by now.

Why does this board hate HP?

>>9828281
>*tips fedora*

>>9828289
kek

>>9826662
>Do Poles remember Jerzy Żuławski?
well i don't, but i'm not into scifi anyway

>>9826985
Not worth the price tag of the insufferable fans who apparently have read no other book.

>>9827305
objectively right answer, we need to de-literize the plebs.

>>9828308
thanks anyway, might ask in /sffg/

Oh no, they got more kids to use their imagination in fantasy than any other modern day book/movie/whatever... oh nooo how terrible they are! Fuck off...

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>>9828998

>>9829054
What a shit sign. All that printing.

>>9829048
>not really reading, stretched his legs, becoming boring people who will read Stephen King, etc...

>>9826103
Just curious, how are HP books bad ? I'm not a huge fan of the saga but I think that they are actually very correct books for teens. The style is fluid and decent (though I only read the french version), the story is nothing very original but the characters are well depicted and the universe has some charm.
Of course you can see with HP uncle and auntie, that the story wasn't supposed to be a saga like this and it has some growing inconsistencies. But in the end, I liked it back when I was young.

>>9826976
I'm sorry

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>>9828281
>this meme again

The Bible is the greatest literary achievement to ever grace civilization, regardless of whether you're Christian or not.

>>9829084
They aren't explicitly bad books, the trouble is the cult that formed around them. Gene Wolfe, who I consider to be the best living fantasy author, read the first book and liked it very much (he does tend to praise everything and seems like an extremely nice and polite person overall but his word is still worth something). The trouble is like Harold Bloom said, Harry Potter isn't going to get readers moving in the right direction. Her actual writing is perfectly fine, but there are plenty of writers who have produce work for children which is genuinely well written and can potentially give them an appreciation for skillful writing. All Rowling's writing can really do is convey the plot competently. And again, like Bloom said the plot is nothing remarkable either. Highly derivative of old schoolboy books with thoughtless wish-fulfillment magic on top.

When I was 10 I was reading Tolkien without any difficulty, now we're faced with >>9829054 being considered normal behaviour rather than freakishness on par with watching My Little Pony over the age of 8.

>>9826103
Admit it, you enjoyed reading them when you were ten. Honestly any author that is able to sell over 400 million books is at the very least a COMPETENT writer. You have some literary skill if you're able to entertain that many people. The problem is that a massive chunk of its audience never developed beyond Potter. For them, their childhood joy of anticipating the next Hogwarts installment is the most pleasurable experience they ever drew from reading. Beauty, image, grace, sublimity and intelligence aren't things they know how to appreciate. Character, plot twists, and alternate realities, sure, but anything that couldn't be featured in a multibillion dollar film franchise is off limits.

In a sense, I sympathize. This is basically everybody's starting point in a media-saturated commercial society and most people aren't inclined to pursue a sincere appreciate for art and literature. But at some point you gotta move forward. Trying to recapture your childhood emotions just makes you a mediocre person and ruins those childhood artifacts for everybody else

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>>9829167
Admit it, you enjoyed eating them when you were ten. Honestly any franchise that is able to sell over 400 million McNuggets is at the very least a COMPETENT chef. You have some culinary skill if you're able to entertain that many people. The problem is that a massive chunk of its audience never developed beyond eating McNuggets. For them, their childhood joy of anticipating the next happy meal toy is the most pleasurable experience they ever drew from eating. Flavour, texture, palate, odour and aesthetic aren't things they know how to appreciate. Chicken, soy sauce, and alternate toys, sure, but anything that couldn't be featured in a multibillion dollar film ad campaign is off limits.

In a sense, I sympathize. This is basically everybody's starting point in a food-saturated commercial society and most people aren't inclined to pursue a sincere appreciate for the culinary arts. But at some point you gotta move forward. Trying to recapture your childhood emotions just makes you a mediocre person and ruins those childhood artifacts for everybody else.

>>9829107
>Harry Potter isn't going to get readers moving in the right direction
I will contest a bit this opinion from my experience. Lots of my friends were absolutely NOT into books, and for them HP was the "switch" that made them realise "hey actually I can also have a good time with a book, let's try some more". And they're now reading even more serious stuff than me (something they like to tease me about, since I graduate college in litterature and philo)...

But I completely understand your opinion about the fact that JKR's books will not push you in a direction that will make you appreciate a more skillful writing style. It's most certainly true. But the only fact that these books are able to make people WANT to read is already something imo. Because, I genuinely think that you can't appreciate good writing skills, if you don't like to read in the first place.

I don't know Gene Wolfe (to be honest I'm not that much of a fantasy reader) but apparently he's a very well known author, what are his best works ? I could give that genre another shot.

>>9829189
That's true though. There is culinary value in McDonald's and genuine culinary talent in the McDonald's chef who created the McNugget

>>9829217
Wolfe is best known for 'Book of the New Sun' which is considered by many to be the greatest work of fantasy/science-fiction (it's both) ever written. Some of his other well known works are 'Latro of the Mist' (Greek mythology), 'The Wizard Knight' (Arthurian legend) and 'Peace' (American horror).

If English isn't your first language and you don't have any patience for Catholicism Wolfe might not be for you. His work is very dense and has been compared to having a crucifix pounded into your chest with a sledgehammer.

>>9829269
His work is very dense and has been compared to having a crucifix pounded into your chest with a sledgehammer.
AH ! That's quite the awesome comparison here lol
I'm not a Catholic, but I usually don't mind influences too much. And I kindda like sci-fi so that might work for me. I'll try the Shadow of the Torturer then, and see if it's too sanctimonious for me or if I can deal with it.
Thanks for the advice anon.

I don't know if this is the absolute worst thing but I really don't like how influential anime and video game have been on fantasy books being released currently. Hopefully it's just a fad.

I just watched the first two flicks and they were better than I remembered. I haven't read any of the books but the first two movies are fun and cute. When I was a kid I stopped watching them once they got all edgy and shit. If I wanted a serious, dark film I wouldn't watch Harry fucking Potter.
The TCG is pretty good too

This post is as shit-tier as when in part five Snape gets bullied by James Potter and then he as revenge betrays him, and Dobby dies so Dumbledore is Obama and Trump is Voldemort.

>>9826103
Industrialization of thought, especially beliefs and knowledge. Sets of tools, ha! Then why do we have the largest amount of lollygaggers in history?

>>9831109
>The TCG is pretty good too

I'm really surprised that no one tried to buy the rights from WotC after they stopped giving a shit about it. It would be an amazing setting for a deckbuilding game.

>>9826662
Thanks for the rec anon

>>9830901
Its not going anywhere, you got 2-3 generations growing up on anime. We're taking it to the grave.

>>9831134
Yeah there's plenty of spells and creatures in the setting to make interesting cards from. If I didn't know better I'd say the setting was made for a TCG. It really is perfect for this type of game. Just played my first 2 games with my gf last night and its fun

>>9826769
>Harry Potter allows you to fit the good and bad guys in the book over the neoliberal politician du jour and DRUMPF respectively.

Excuse me what? I've seen more people complaining about this than people actually doing it. In fact, I've never seen somebody do it.

Can someone redirect me to proof? Or is this some kind of collective hallucination?

>>9827012
>This. How often do you find a HP fan who truly appreciates white nationalism and having women return to the kitchen?

Uuuh... often? It's not like the book will set itself on fire if you hold certain views.

>>9826646
Dat nigga Job was wack.