How can you treat Marxism as some shallow childish fantasy if

Marx is outdated

>>9818180

About a third of it is just letters and correspondence that they wrote.

You can get a lot of shitposting done without a TV or internet to distract you. Volume, in and of itself, only impresses by dint of its size, for simply being what it is. You are also in a much better position to have all of your shitposting enter the historical record when you have the good fortune to have written in a recent century.

>>9818219

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marx/Engels_Collected_Works#Contents

Another point worth making is that this corpse (corpus?) is the life's work of two men, not one. So take the fifty volumes and cut them in half (or maybe weight it 60/40 in favor of Marx, whatever's appropriate). In each case, chuck out maybe 5-6 volumes and you realize that each guy effectively wrote maybe about 15-20 books' worth of material over the course of his life (including each individual's contributions to the joint stuff), much of which is just articles and such. Suddenly it doens't look so daunting.

>the collected shitposts of anon

The Labor Theory of Value is outdated and no longer valid. Marginalism is objectively better at explaining and predicting phenomenon. Marxism is outdated pseudoscience akin to Astrology, Phrenology, and the Odic Force.

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lenin's collected works is about the same size and he actually had to do revolutionary things like lead the bolshevik revolution rather than sitting in a british library writing speculative fiction, oh, and some anarchist shitlord killed him early so if he had lived as long as marx he would have wrote more

>>9818180
/lit/ is like all of 4chan completely dominated by /pol/, they rather base their worldview on infographs and youtube videos instead of actually reading books

>>9818262
/lit/ and /his/ is where /pol/'s infographs and meme ideology come to die

>>9818262
>authority fallacy
No this board is dominated by brainlet liberals. And this buffoon here is another example thinking he is some kind of a nazi killer >>9818298 when in reality he can't even defend his own ideology

>>9818372
/pol/ fought liberal autism so hard and gazed into the void so long that it became autistic itself. Neither ideological shitposter is really better than the other, but at least the "liberal brainlets" aren't feeding cronies and being persuaded against their best interest

>>9818389
>against their best interest
Which, of course, would be?

>>9818405
Being resentful 4chan and reddit browsing wrecks that don't interact with society in a meaningful way despite picturing themselves as the path of the practical future. From this >>9818405 post compared to this one >>9818389 you can see how you immediately identify with whatever vague entity is against the liberal brainlets mentioned in the last post. People like you are void of all content and only know how to react.

>>9818180
>How can you treat Marxism as some shallow childish fantasy
By being a brainwashed american

>>9818180
Marx and his followers are suicidal betas who are so angry at god for their existence they want to die and take all of humanity along with them.

>>9818389
>became autistic itself.
nigger where do you think we are. every board is autism incarnated.

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>>9818258
>>9818180

All those books and the best they could do is kill peasant farmers

>>9818180
After reading the main works, seeing the results and meditating over the premise/hopes of marxism I just hate it.

In my eyes its not a shallow, childish fantasy. It's a subtle nightmare that leaves you feel a feel of uneasiness.

>>9819707
OY vey muh 90 gazillion

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>>9819751
not an argument

Most of marxists i've met IRL have barely read the Manifesto, let alone other philosophers such as Gramsci, Lukacs or Althusser.

>>9818258
>>9818180
When I went to Monticello they were selling the collected works of Thomas Jefferson which consisted of like over 40 similarly-sized volumes. These people just had a lot of time on their hands. I'm sure that if you collected all of my emails, papers, and online posts at the end of my life it would also take up thousands of pages.

>>9819772
Source behind this pic?

>>9819784
>Gramsci, Lukacs or Althusser

that's because cultural marxism is a trick by zionists, real marxists read lenin and mao

>This food tastes like shit.
>But the portions are so generous!

>>9819806
Capitalism in a nutshell.

>>9819821
At least there's food in capitalism

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>>9818180
Reminder that state mandated child rape is the logical conclusion to Marxism. Marxists believe family, gender, morality, culture, the rape of children being bad and rationality are all evil white social constructs standing in the way of their liberated communist utopia.Deviant sexuality is pretty much the only thing Marxists will admit is good liberated and not 'socially constructed'.This is why leftists have always been so obsessed with promoting all forms of perversion, such as homosexuality, transgenderism, incest and sadomasochism. all of course leading up to the normalisation of pedophilia which has been a leftist goal for decades. 1968 was a failed violent takeover attempt, after which the left decided to pursue its aims through gramsascian cultural subversion.


>Germany's left has its own tales of abuse. One of the goals of the German 1968 movement was the sexual liberation of children. For some, this meant overcoming all sexual inhibitions, creating a climate in which even pedophilia was considered progressive.

http://www.spiegel.de/international/zeitgeist/the-sexual-revolution-and-children-how-the-left-took-things-too-far-a-702679.html

>A group of notorious leftists, including philosophers Foucault and Althusser, drafted and signed a petition demanding the immediate repeal of all age of consent laws
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_Morality_and_the_Law
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_petition_against_age_of_consent_laws

>>9819796
communism

>>9819841
so what

>>9819841
Fucking hell...

>>9819859
What on earth DO you care about, then?

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>>9818180
>>9818258
>>9819791
Pic is the collected works of Martin Luther. The full edition is 121 volumes, around 80,000 pages. Took 126 years to assemble.

>>9819859
yeah sure communism works in theory, but in practice you'll slave away your life at the communal farm, growing sickly and emaciated from your meagre soy rations while an obese blue haired kommissar of indeterminate gender shrieks WHITE MALEEEEE! in your face for all eternity. of course all art and western achievements would have to go, as they offend victimised lgbts and islamic pocwocs, by serving as reminders of the superiority of the white man. that's because leftism is at its core slave morality, rejection of all that is great and good in man, for all that is weak.

this is a false flag thread used to trick /lit/ users into thinking anti-communists are underage retards

>>9819791
I wonder if Jefferson wrote any saucy bits about all those slave wenches he raped

>>9819902
how can you be stuck in the politics of the 1970's and not be retarded?

>>9820032
Communists are taking over American colleges and have been for decades.

>>9820032
I don't know, but after making that post the thread went from a post every minute to dead silence.

>>9820049
Maybe you are a marxist using meta subversion tactics in order to shut down thoughtcrime.

>>9820003
>about all those slave wenches he raped
You mean his 1/8 black sister-in-law who looked like his dead wife and who traveled with him to Europe where she could have escaped but instead chose to stay with him on the condition that the kids they had together would all be considered free whites?

>>9818180
>setting up your own argument to defend something that is inherently flawed.
That's why.
People like you who get into Marxism are childish niggers.
Also, gas the kikes.

>>9820043
I go to one of the more liberal colleges in America and this isn't true. Ever even been on a college campus?

The problem with rejecting Marxism outright is that this requires you to also reject class-based analysis of society, because that's literally all that matters in Marxism: if there is some amount of class-focused analysis, there is some element of Marxism. The subversive/revolutionary elements are secondary, political/practical concerns that exist only accidentally in relation to the man named "Marx" who was also the theorist of capitalism. Even Nick Land owes a debt to Marxism: accelerationism focuses its eye on the capitalist class and a proletariat as much as Marxism does, though it asks different questions and has different aims. The tools are literally identical: capital is capital is capital, whether you read Fanged Noumena or Das Kapital.

>>9819885
this is the spookiest thing I've ever read. log off the internet.

>>9818180

The only people who don't like communists are shitheads who belong in the gulag or retarded Americans (redundant) too deluded by shitty propaganda to see how beneficial it would be.

>>9819791
Why did you go to Monticello, and what did you think of it?
Also, have you been to Mount Vernon?

>>9819882
Tons of kike-hating gold on that shelf, let me tell ya.

>>9818238
An average shitposter's life work

>>9820171
I agree that Marx's materialist conception of history is a useful tool for historiographers to use, but a class interpretation of history promotes certain political views in and of itself. Same way that feminist interpretations of history instills a particular view of gender on its readers (primarily that social conditions, not biological differences are what account for women's behavior).

Could you imagine biological interpretations of history being a thing? Yet it's as valid a tool for interpreting history as class and gender are.

>>9820172
Gender, heterosexuality, science, the White race, and western civilisation are all spooks you see kids. But don't you dare ever 'misgender' a tranny post factual info graphics or bring up the factz about disproportionate Jewish involvement in leftist movements. Like wow just wow.

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>>9820211
I've been to DC a bunch of times. I have a brother who worked for the government there. Mount Vernon is okay, but very touristy with its series of gift shops. The view of the Potomac behind Washington's house was pretty sick though. Monticello is cool because Jefferson was an amateur botanist, and they resowed and maintained everything he ever planted. Literally hundreds of different plants stretching out for acres.

But if you ever go to DC, pic related is your first stop. Seeing the Magna Carta, US Constitution, Bill of Rights, Deceleration of Independence in person was nothing compared to being face-to-face with a Shakespeare First Folio.

>>9820250
>but a class interpretation of history promotes certain political views in and of itself.
This is not important at all--political facts do not affect the validity of an argument form or the soundness of an argument. If an analysis is correct, then that is the end of the story; if a fact is true, it is true regardless of the existence of a political party acknowledging its truth. This is not complicated.
>Could you imagine biological interpretations of history being a thing?
Hoo boy.

>>9820322
Are you a spook of some sort? is that why everything you say sounds like it's been approved by a committee of neocon deep state interests? I'm sure the pentagon/mossad plants you people in forums to control public opinion and shut down criticism of zionism

>>9820346
This is a naive view of how history as a subject works. The interpretive lens you apply to your work is often one of a multitude of different lenses one could just as easily apply; and if the reader isn't critical (as most aren't), she can be under the assumption that the particular interpretive lens that the historian she's reading chose to apply to his work isn't just a myopic, single-dimensional prism through which to view those events. The reader assumes that that lens is the only way to interpret the those facts. So if a student only reads Marxist interpretations of history, she herself will interpret events in the real world exclusively through a Marxist lens.

This is what you see with feminists who see patriarchy under every stone. They get trained to think that way by what they're assigned to read.

>>9820434
If the government wants to pay me to be a deep state propagandist, i'd do it in a heartbeat. I have a huge boner for my country

>>9820434
Stop being such a faggot

>>9820451
>I have a huge boner for my country
you mean, Israel?

>>9820462
Neocons don't have all have a blank check view of Israel. They're mostly an ally we use to prevent Iranian Middle Eastern hegemony.

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>>9820451
> I have a huge boner for my country

nice psychosexual implications dude

>>9818180
Erich Fromm seemed to think his ideas entirely worthwhile, and I love that guy, so I'm inclined to believe the value or Marx's thought, though,...

only prototypically
each new passing decade has the capacity to invalidate certain aspects of old ideologies, and not in the sense that new technologies outstrip the principles espoused, but rather a calcinating fire burning off the dross of our prolonged attempt at a systematic approach to human nature as if it were finally capable of being "reigned in" if only we could find a sufficiently elaborate systematic control over ourselves, or lack of control through systematic means. Anarchy is the one true religion, friends.

Although narrowly, as a critique of capitalism, it is proper and thorough.

>>9818180
volume=/=quality. You'd know that if you read every now and then.

>>9818389
>being persuaded against their best interest
Not only yours but of the whole worlds, your tiny brains can't comprehend that your actions do have consequences, but don't worry you will be the first to go and not in a easy way too.

>>9818180

It doesn't matter how much you write if it's all shit.

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>>9820481
do they serve 'cheese pizza' at bohemian groove?

>>9819869
nothing
>>9819885
not white, i dont care about your basic bitch problems

>>9820697
Sad! Your life is going to get worse and worse for you, bucko. How old are you already?

>>9820579
I want these toys!

>>9819869
no children that is for sure, fucking useless little shits.

>>9820708
Let me guess, a plan for your own suicide once you get to a certain age because "life is shit then anyway"?

>>9818180
J.K Rolling wrote a lot too for her lame fantasy world

>>9818262
I, for one, once considered myself a marxist, and I got a lot of reading done in that period.
I would hazard a guess that many people here had a similar phase.

>>9818180
I wish I had the time to dive into the life works of an individual thinker

How does one salvage Marxism after the death of the labor theory of value, which leads to the death of the myth of capitalist exploitation? Marxist historiography looks pretty goofy by modern standards of scholarship as well.

I'm skeptical about class itself being enough of a basis for it.

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I don't understand how Marxism has anything to do with the working class when its adherents are all university students and professors. I know it sounds dumb but it's just so obvious that the working class is more economically right-wing

>>9821492
The great disappointment of the 20th century for Marxists was discovering that proletarians like reactionary things such as their countries, their families, and eating food, so the whole thing shifted over to the intellectuals, who, presumably, have greater revolutionary potential.

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>>9818180
>>9818258
L Ron Hubbard wrote a metric shit ton too, I don't know what point you're trying to make with all this and I like Marx

>>9819885
>>9820257

legit the most retarded thing i've read in a really long time, please kill yourself

>>9821496
>their families
What's the Marxist explanation for this? Isn't an attachment to one's kin one of the most fundamental facts of nature? Do they not believe that human beings are evolved organisms?

There are MLP fanfics longer than what Marx wrote, does that mean we should take it seriously?

>>9820043
It's totally not and a good portion of "communists" are actually liberals who are retarded to the degree they believe they are communists.

>>9821525
Because they're literally autistic, everything else must be demolished if it doesn't fit in neatly with their theory

>>9821492
>advanced
>works only with unlimited resources

>>9821632
Post-scarcity doesn't mean unlimited, it just means no one is going to die if everyone got an even slice

Why can't Marxists just voluntarily socialise? Why can't capitalism and socialism coexist?

>>9821647
Because Capitalism is better obviously

>>9821643
Sweet

>>9821581
No because its a fanfic. Why would anyone take a fanfic seriously in the way someone would take a social theory seriously? They're different categories.

>>9821658
Marx is basically just Hegel fanfiction

>>9819841
I don't even know the difference between Marxists, sjws,BLM, liberals, lgbts, communists and transgenderists anymore it all seems like one indistinct shrieking mass of Marxism and victimhood

>>9823351
t. millennial.

read a book

>>9823351
durrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

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>>9818180
>all you 'communists' in /lit/

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>>9823372
When will you people admit that Cultural Marxism has absolutely nothing to do with Marxism

>>9823351
Actually read some fucking Marx, nothing he said has anything to do with this SJW bullshit.

>>9823439
Never. They get their information strictly from youtube, infographs, and memes.

>>9823351
Uhh Marxism is about banding together and rising up against the oppressors, not being a special snowflake and using your victim status to have things handed to you. The primary aspect that nobody on here seems to consider is the means of production are seized and owned by the workers who are doing the producing.

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>>9818180
Darwin wrote a lot too, his understanding of biology was incredibly simple and wrong compared against what we know now. Both are products of a less advanced time, why the fuck would anyone pour over massive tomes with dated and wildly incorrect information? You might as well be reading about the fucking four humors of Hippocrates in med school. The general idea is enough, and it's clearly wrong.

>>9823445
>>9823463
Sometimes I wonder if it's just bait from the federales, and if anyone displays too much knowledge about the subject, they get monitored and v&.

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Man usually believes, if only words he hears,
That also with them goes material for thinking!

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>>9823372
Everyone else is fucked up but I like how this guys' great offence is starting to grow an afro

>>9818180
>hahaha if you don't read this massive pile of garbage which no-one will ever reasonably actually read that means the pile of shit might be right and you can't say no
retard

how can we trust Marx's economics when he can't even explain himself economically

>>9818180
I've written just under a million pages on my theory of the universe. It centers around the protonatural force now found and harnessed in Cheetos Puffs. People seem to have no trouble dismissing it outright without familiarizing themselves with the actual material. Pseuds, right? Just fyi, it proves determinism and god both wrong.

>>9821647
Every time they have co-existed they have been in constant war with each other because each believes that their economic system is greater.

>>9823480
would read desu

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>>9823372
I bet she pegs like a champ now

>>9823372
more like
>Americans

>>9823789
funny how freeing up and even encouraging nay worshiping reckless capitalism to rape every institution of your nation at the expense of the next generation is the fault of 'marxism' huh?

>>9823789
Mostly Brazilian

https://twitter.com/antesdepoisfede?lang=en

>>9823793
>implying their teachers don't perceive the struggle against gender, sexual, and social prescriptive expectations as being part and parcel with class struggle
Capitalism doesn't create this.

>>9820439
>The reader assumes that that lens is the only way to interpret the those facts
This is simply a baseless assertion.
>So if a student only reads Marxist interpretations of history, she herself will interpret events in the real world exclusively through a Marxist lens.
That's the student's fault for being a fucking idiot, the analysis itself can still be valid.
>This is what you see with feminists who see patriarchy under every stone. They get trained to think that way by what they're assigned to read.
Can you shut the fuck up about feminism for a second? Your obsession with petty political grudges blinds you to the laws of reason.

>>9823822
I don't understand what you're on about.

>>9823822
marx thought all other struggles (race, gender, sexuality, etc) was subordinate to class struggle.

capitalism strategies and capitalistic despots have attempted a "divide and conquer" tactic to break down the power of unified class politics into divided identity politics...........we've seen this process proliferate since the mid 90's when most academic institutions became neo-liberal, market driven sites.

>>9823465
Spoken like a true STEMfaggot

>>9821525
modern marxism draws a lot from the ideas of reich and marcuse, leftists unironically believe all problems in society to this very day stem from 'sexual repression'. If capitalism hasn't collapsed yet it must be because people cling to their reactionary family units and traditions instead of engaging in all ages pansexual fursuit orgies 24/7. seriously. this is what these people actually believe.

>>9823846
It doesn't matter what Marx thought himself, it matters what people who claim to represent his work teach. They think that all power structures (even the ones based on biology) are necessary to dismantle, and that class and gender are both part of a struggle against a particular straight male hegemony.

>capitalism strategies and capitalistic despots have attempted a "divide and conquer" tactic
This is a conspiracy theory on the level of "muh frankfurt school!"

>>9823822
By definition it does

>>9823863
How do you live in the real world and not understand sexual selection? Please don't tell me any female academics actually believe this; this has to be a horny male fantasy

>>9823866
>It doesn't matter what Marx thought himself, it matters what people who claim to represent his work teach
Why not both, you fucking moron? Who's paying you to pretend to be this thick? If nobody is paying you, why are you so fucking stupid?

>>9823885
>Why not both, you fucking moron?
Because Marx's ideas don't exist in the minds of most of the people who are forced to read him as being distinct from the ideas of the professors who teach his work. Very few people read Marx outside of a school context.

>>9823889
>Very few people read
Yes, I agree. The number of people familiar with an argument has no bearing on its soundness or validity, however.

>>9821525
>What's the Marxist explanation for this? Isn't an attachment to one's kin one of the most fundamental facts of nature? Do they not believe that human beings are evolved organisms?
They believe in evolution insofar as it is useful for demonstrating superiority over right-wing idiots who don't believe it. However, a Marxist would probably say that attachment to kin is a product of capitalism.

>>9823863
It's just Jewish projection. Sexual pathology is typical of Jews, as is projection of their tendencies onto others. Why do you think they're so obsessed with calling everyone racist in societies that, by any objective standard, are the least racist in the world, while maintaining an ethno-nationalist state that exterminates Palestinians?

>>9823372
You can be left-wing and not a complete degenerate.

>>9823807
brazil is basically a shittier parallel dimension USA. ancaps are a thing in brazil too, you know.

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>>9824031
but the goal of leftism per se is complete degeneracy. the celebration and promotion of degeneracy is the leftist's only true conviction, everything else is a culturally relative social construct and probably reactionary as well.

>>9824031
You can't vote Left in most countries without supporting some degree of degeneracy

Politics are the worst thing to happen to 4chan. Nobody has a fucking clue what they're talking about and every thread devolves into my memes and half baked stawmen. Disgusting.

>>9824150
There's a reason why you're not supposed to talk about politics in good company. It's the one subject that can have perfectly reasonable and intelligent people quarreling

>>9818180
Most people don't give a crap about philosophy, or life, to begin with. It's all just something to be endured so most just take the easiest position for their personal interest.

>>9824254
Intelligent political discussion, from my experience, can be the most illuminating and fun ones around. For this to happen however, those involved must be well read, well spoken, don't take things personally, and can take a joke: all of the qualities 4chan lacks.

>>9824299
Have you been on forums that aren't 4chan? They're almost all exclusively awful, censorious echo-chambers full of the pseudo-educated. /lit/ is an outlier.

>>9824319
Lainchan was decent before it died. /leftypol/ was unironically a good place to have political discussion before it got too big. /lit/, too, was decent for a time before it got too big and obsessed with Stirner and Peterson posting. It's an outlier compared to the rest of 4chan, but that doesn't mean shit.
Goodreads is still the only good book forum.

>>9824359
>Goodreads is still the only good book forum.
You can't be serious. It's full of teenage girls reading young adult garbage, and the more serious corners of the site have an exclusively leftist activist bent. Reddit is a more serious forum for discussion.

>>9824370
>You can't be serious.
OBVIOUSLY

not shallow. just wrong.

Marx was infected by 19th century liberal sentimentalism (as represented by Shelley, Dickens, Rousseau etc) and simply took it to its logical conclusion. Modern liberalism is, ideologically speaking, nothing more than communism-lite. They both rest on the same fundamental assumption: that inequality is inherently bad. This is the reason why Nazis are all but hunted for sport, while commies (or, in their snake-parlance, progressives) are simply ignored at worst. America is a country that has the means and the motive to become a great empire, if only it was not being eaten from the inside out by crypto-communists.

>>9824544
They're based on the assumption that inequality is inefficient and artificial, and thereby useless and cruel. Modern liberalism is based on the idea that capitalism can be humane, and ultimately can aid the goals of democracy. "Progressives" believe the system is fundamentally okay, but needs to adjust outdated social norms and laws. Leftists know the system itself has failed.

In that sense, liberalism is the foremost enemy of communism in the modern era.

W/r/t your dimwitted nazi statement, the reason why Nazis are hated is because they're antidemocratic, misanthropic, and is built off the idea that the majority of humanity are sheep to be controlled and used for the sake of "their race", while explicitly enforcing a hierarchal society in which those sheep suffer the greatest: the ideology is a total farce, an even bigger one than neoliberalism.

>>9823465
>Darwin wrote a lot too
>read the Origin of Species
>it's Freud tier pseudo-science
it's a marvel that from these kernels came the fruits of modernity

>>9818219
>just letters and correspondance
>just
>Marx's and Engels' correspondance

They were writing to the most relevant intellectuals, historians, economists, philosophers, and even politicians, of their time. Also it's not like they were writing about their groceries lists: those are mostly clarificstions and direct answers regarding works of those years (including theirs).

>>9823469
He's clearly the success story in the bunch.

>>9819707
>Stalin
>Mao
>reading Marx
>ever

>>9825208

i had a copy of "marx's letters to americans" that i got in a now defunct used bookshop in manhattan for $5, there was pretty much nothing interesting in it... unless you're writing a biography of marx none of that shit is relevant to anyone

>>9825215
Those letters are relevant to scholars, who are the only people (apart from some occasional enthusiast) who might want to buy all of those 50 books.

>>9819707
You should remove 6 million from that Hitler figure.

>>9818180
Marx's work is the philosophical version of that giant super smash bros fanfic.

>>9818180
Because it's enough to read the wiki page of marx and look at history to see that socialism/communism/whatever is a violent ideology based on theft and oppression.

>>9823351
wew nigga
go on twitter

>>9818180
How can you treat Marxism seriously when you can read Mises?

>>9818180
All of that, but ignoring innovation. Satan can only distort and take over.

>>9825512
So you're not willing to check, for example, wether what happened in those countries was compatible with Marx's writing?

>>9819751
Go back to /leftypol/ or Reddit, faggot. You’re pond scum and you’re not welcome here.

>>9824031
trump_saying_wrong.gif

>>9825512
>browses /lit/
>it's enough to read wikipedia pages to form political opinions
Leave this board and never come back

>>9818180
This is a nonargument, a more played up version of gish gallop. I could wrote 12 infinite jests on my shit, doesn't mean I had something of value to say. And I say this as a person interested in what Marx wrote.