in less than a year this guy managed to kill the nu-atheist movement

>>9791022
Every year the atheism grows.

>>9791022
Absolutely. The solution isn't a reversion to the slave faith of the Jew demiurge, but he is doing a great service in pointing these scientistic simpletons in desperate need of a leader toward Jung. They may awaken from their slumbers yet, and the Aryan race reborn.

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I doubt it, if anything the nu-atheist crowd morphed and diversified. They are still present, and I'm imagining that certain online subcultures have former or morphed new atheists amongst their ranks. I'm imagining that the alt-light has a fraction of them.

The internet is truly interesting in that it allows information to spread so much faster as well as allowing much more information. I'm personally baffled by the explosion of the 'alt-right', and remember how we would discuss it here and nobody said it was a thing, until it blowed up in meatspace and the kekistani incident happened.

Perhaps you are seeing it wrong and it is a younger generation that takes Peterson as their lords and savior.

>>9791027
Atheism is the fastest shrinking religion on earth.

>>9791022
Nah

Yeah. He understands the degeneracy of nihilism and atheism, and the need for a mass spiritual revival in the west.

Is Jordan Peterson the greatest sophist of our time?

His ideas are not original at all

Also

>evolutionary psychology

Lulz

>>9791096
where should I begin with junger?

>>9791121
>His ideas are not original at all
no one said they were. not even he says they are. why do you have to be so autistic?

>>9791096
Modern atheism is Jewish in origin and thought.

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>>9791121
>evolutionary psychology
Some of it is bad, and I know certain bigots and creeps appropriate it, or morph it, in ways that justifies their shitty worldviews
But thinking that you can have cognitive science without biology, which includes evolutionary biology, is foolish - nothing makes sense except in the light of evolution, whatever meatbags like that or not

The fact that people are moving away from atheism and going towards new-age spirituality, religion and other things is very troubling, to say the least.
I don't understand why people are celebrating this.
I'm not a new atheist myself; I'm an agnostic deist; however, I will take atheism any day over religion and spirituality.

>>9791022
>heavily borrows on freud
>tackles on political correctness and freedom of speech
>is in line with the alt-right
>gets a bunch of attention for being a contrarian and automatically called -ourguy-
yeh.
>>9791101
>atheism
>religion
????????????????????????????????
>>9791027
It's stable throughout the years. The growth is only due to a more lenient approach towards atheists.
I do doubt that atheism will surpass faith.
>>9791130
Are you okay? Has /pol/ rotted your brain that much?
>>9791154
They're not atheists, they have been always religious.

>>9791121
He's not selling an original or claiming that he is. He's an academic and is only lecturing about what he knows and his world views.

People like him because he's an excellent speaker, erudite, very good at synthesising his knowledge of philosophy, psychology and theology together to give interesting interpretations. People who don't buy into the degenerate nu-atheist movement like him for these reasons. He provides a high-brow argument against these people that was previously lacking.

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>>9791162
oh how his neckbeard rustles as the redditor is angered, awakened from his slumber by the smell of scalps barren of fedora

>>9791162
>>atheism
>>religion
>????????????????????????????????
Atheism is more like a diseased corpse of the local religion, you are correct. However, atheism still needs to be represented on religion graphs and statistics. It is shrinking.

>>9791154
>very troubling, to say the least
Why? I'm atheist, and don't see that much of a trouble unless they intervene with science, or threaten democracy.
I don't think atheism is somehow a moral get outta the jail card, there are ideologies brewing that are just as bad as religious fundies.

Though I'll admit that I've grown some anti-liberal thought, in the sense of classical liberalism, which basically means that I happen to think that some freedoms we have are a mistakes in the long run.

>>9791022
he's great. he still falls to recognize that christianity is part of the problem, catholicism and orthodoxy are sort of salvageable as they still contain plenty of traditional pagan values and rituals, but Protestantism is pure concentrated cancer and progressivism is it's bardard son, it shall be all burned when people wake up

The majority of Petersons fans today were nu-atheists yesterday - contrarian pseuds who are malleable and easily lead by anyone with charisma.

They look for someone who holds the same views as them - opposing PC culture - and subscribe to their views as a result. There is no real adherence or understanding of the majority of what he says, only the knowledge his conclusions are the same as theirs justifying their obsession with him.

>>9791101
>"Religion is any cultural system of designated behaviors and practices, world views, texts, sanctified places, ethics, or organizations, that relate humanity to the supernatural or transcendental."
I'm sorry but you are incorrect.

>>9791111
checked

>>9791183
>refutes the claim that atheism is growing
>agrees that atheism will never surpass faith
>some random animeposter pulls out the reddit card because i disagreed with him
you're just making a fool of yourself.

>>9791188
a·the·ism
ˈāTHēˌizəm/
noun
noun: atheism

disbelief or lack of belief in the existence of God or gods.
----
sources to back that statistics you claim...aand....

It seems that you're hating on atheism because it threatens your beliefs... how sad.

Outside of your internet bubble nobody knows who he is.

>>9791204
this sums up this thread and Peterson, thank you.

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>>9791204
this is literally me. im very susceptible to charismatic speakers. i wouldve been part of every cult. how do i fix this problet

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>>9791111
nice quads, respect

>>9791224
see
>>9791133

>>9791230
>>9791232
QUTE VIRTUS SINGAL

>>9791196
Protestantism is cancer. It is Judaism of the goyim. Especially Calvinism.
>plenty of traditional pagan values and rituals
Now you need to recognize their flaws and how Christianity improved upon the pagan soul. Start by making a distinction between the religion and the people and the states of the time. You have masses who enjoy watching trained rape animals do their things to men and women on circus. You have Crassus taking over Rome with fire fighters (read it, it's an interesting story)...
Slavery is inefficient, but the stubborn nature of pride prevents the ancients from using their technology, insisting on human labor and an elite that need not do anything.
The tribal nature of central and northern Europe, the endless blood vengeances, feuds, viking raids on monasteries and destruction of important and costly papers...

Things have never been simple. The illusion is born out of limited knowledge.

>>9791111
Maybe we need a new religion then.

>>9791249
>The tribal nature of central and northern Europe, the endless blood vengeances, feuds, viking raids on monasteries and destruction of important and costly papers...
the christians genocided plenty and destroyed many traditions on the european crusades

>>9791022
he didn't destroy it he just took similar types of retarded cunts into nu-christianity which is also cancer and more so

>>9791251
>Maybe we need a new religion then.
I always imagine a post-religious world in the west were ideology simply takes over
There is little difference between ideology and religion if you reduce it to the mental facilities we have

And full rationalism isn't possible, our brains are just wired to seek patterns that aren't there, our memory is fussy, we are build-in with cognitive biases and so on
But religion will probably stick around

>>9791237
>>9791133
There are problems with the excerpt.
First of all, it assumes all atheists firmly believe that there's no god. That's a belief.
Agnostic Atheists (which is my case), do not hold believes of god's existence or unexistence. We just state that there's no evidence to prove god's existence. Which is far from different to stating: GOD DOESN'T EXIST MUHHH.

Second, wrong, theism makes a claim about nature which is the existence of god. Which means the burden of proof falls on them.

This is a fallacy called inversion of the burden of proof.
It's the same as multiplying (-1) to both sides of the equation.
Theism is incorrectly defined, also.
It is a prime statement, therefore it occupies the zusammen side, whereas atheism is the entgegen

Further, Ph.D does not makes you the king of reason. It just means you have a certain expertise.
Also, i can't find Susan Demoni's lattes, please link me in.

>>9791251
I think we should focus on 'the bringer of light', of new perspectives. We should value knowledge and shun ignorance. We should elevate our race above others. We should have a strict law that keeps us in the path, but it should be viewed through opportunistic lenses, for our God loves us and us alone or at the very least, more than the others. There should be a remarkable and influential ritual that makes sure that every one of us is in on it for life. That we know that we have sacrificed something important already, and that there is no going other ways. However, we should keep an appearance for others so that they don't learn to hate us like the last time. So we should learn the path of two truths, our truth and their truth.

Yeah, a new religion.

>>9791275
The image is a satire of your "theism makes a claim about nature which is the existence of god. Which means the burden of proof falls on them."

You make the claim "the burden of proof falls on the claim maker" yet you do not prove that claim.

I'm an agnostic deist. It is perfectly reasonable for me to maintain my position until a gnostic atheist provides me evidence of the affirmative lack of a deity.

>>9791286
>You make the claim "the burden of proof falls on the claim maker" yet you do not prove that claim.
Of course, i do not claim that god exists, duh.
If you use the same logic, i can safely say there are russell's teapots orbiting the sun, unicorns on valhalla, and flying spaghetti monsters on andromeda galaxy. Prove it.

>>9791267
>the christians genocided plenty and destroyed many traditions on the european crusades
The pagans genocided plenty and destroyed many traditions on the European wars.
One such example would be the fall of Rome, or the Roman expansion. They weren't the first ones. They weren't the last. Christianity kept all the cultures around. Industrialization has been eating them away.
I am a Finn. I go to sauna. Why is that part of our culture? Didn't the Swedes destroy it? They killed the literate elite, or converted them and changed their language. That much is true.
They didn't do it for God, they did it for power. You are a fool if you think otherwise.

>>9791296
>Of course, i do not claim that god exists, duh.
Alcoholics worship alcohol. It is their god, it gives to them, it takes from them, it paints their world and their world revolves around it.
What is your central thesis? What is your central position? Separate facts?

>>9791121
No current pop-philosopher's ideas are original. They are all contemporary applications on the ideas of previous philosophers.

>>9791314
No previous generation was bombarded with such an enormous amount of information to digest. They had to think for themselves. They couldn't just google endless articles about it on the language of their choosing.

>>9791273
>post-religious world

you're living in it bucko

>>9791022
He didn't invent the fedora meme.

>>9791125
You can start with spelling his name correctly.

>>9791325
I guess it is true that western Europe is the most post-religious place in existence

>>9791296
I am not saying that there are russell's teapots orbiting the sun. I'm saying the lack of empirical evidence of a russell teapot orbiting the sun does not prove that there is no russell teapot orbiting the sun

>>9791377
They are also problems of different magnitude. We can ignore Russel's teapot regardless of whether it actually is there or not. We can't ignore God whether God is real or not.

>>9791130
Some strains are. Europeans should reject Jewish slave morality in any form presented. It's not as if slave morality is a monolithic entity, it is a mind virus, an underlying was of seeing and being in the world that is alien and hostile to our health. Jung knew this, Peterson feels it, but is not conscious of it yet.

>>9791377
i don't understand the "evidence" meme when discussing religion. doubt has always been a catholic theme. of course there is no proof, it's a structural component of many religions that you can't directly know god.

i am not sure how believers are so retarded as to ignore this. if you KNOW that god exists, your faith means nothing and it's a simple calculation. Morality is only possible if knowledge is limited.

now i am not religious, but this is pretty obvious even from outside

>>9791396
Hitler rose to power by following Christian doctrine. He failed with the Jewish doctrine of revolting. Instead he sucked up his pride and marched through the disgusting system of democracy with success.
It's not easy, and that's why we don't do it.

Morality itself indicates that there is an ought; that there is a preferable state of being, and that there are proper ways to get them. Some simply do not work.
>Jewish slave mentality
Brought to your homes via Hollywood and public education. Hardly the antisemitic Christianity you hear so much bad things about. Similarly, you hear all those nasty things Hitler did.
Christians believed in flat Earth and Hitler made lampshades out of Jews.

>>9791022
If people had a proper grasp at history religion would die out in a week. That's all it is just know your fucking history, it puts everything into context

>>9791022
>kill the nu-atheist movement that took people like hitchens, dawkins, and harris a decade to build


to a cabal of neckbeards caught up in their own echochamber of self-pity and personal inadequacy. I don't rate him higher than the PUA movement

>jungian archetypes

pulease

>>9791027
>atheism grows.
Yeah, more edge ileterate underages prehomosexuals that screams "religionx suxks smoke DUDE jesus is a faggot xDDD" that repeat whatever the amazing atheist its saying

>>9791101
That's a bold claim Cotton

>>9791232
princiblez

>>9792228
Having those neckbeards cleaning their rooms is hardly a negative.

>>9792273
2011 called

>>9791027
In reality the fastest growing belief is apatheism.


Most people, including a lot of people who go to church, don't actually care if there is a God or not. They just don't think about it.

>>9791296
False equavalence. The natural state of the brain is not to perceive teapots in space or any of that crap. But it IS to perceive agency in the environment and universe.

If you make a claim against this common sense (and meant purely in the technical terms, sensory interpretation that defaults to agency) then you must back it up.

>>9792228
Oh yeah, I'm SURE you know all about Jung's worldview and theories. You wouldn't just dismiss a whole bunch of work just offhand without attempting to understand it properly, would you?

>>9791022
All anyone had to do was actually read Nietzsche and you would have already seen how Hitchens, Dawkins, and Harris are full of themselves.

>>9792462
Or think for a second about their double standards with evolutionary theory and dismissal of religion, one of the most ubiquitous phenomena in humankind.

>>9792462
which nietzsche book best illustrates this?

>>9792462
And NEETchee and peterson aren't full of themselves? Are you fucking retarded?

>>9791022
>in less than a year a coherent idea formed through the canon of western philosophy killed the nu-male post modernist ideology developed as a result of the western canon of philosophy being tossed away by post modern societies

Weird isnt it?

>>9791232
You find someone actually meriting a cult.

>>9791125
at spinoza like you should

>>9792594
I'm not that guy, but Nietzsche's clearest, most systematic, and comprehensive work is the Genealogy.

>>9792594
His work is a cohesive whole and I'd recommend all of it. But if you really wanted to narrow it down: The Gay Science, Beyond Good and Evil, and On the Genealogy of Morality.

>>9792605
Maybe Peterson is a little.

>>9792454
The natural state of the brain is to regulate your body needs. Homeostasis.
Everything else is a byproduct of survival instincts and abstraction.
Perception falls into abstraction category.

I'm not claiming god's existence or inexistence. I am just stating that there is no evidence for me to believe in god. If such evidence is fair enough, then sure, god exists. But until this very day, not a single shred of evidence has appeared.

You can't put god into a test tube, honestly.
It's faith. Faith is personal. If you consistently ask for evidence in god, it means you're a very weak believer. And your god would probably be angry at you.

>>9792655
>The natural state of the brain is to regulate your body needs. Homeostasis.
>Everything else is a byproduct of survival instincts and abstraction.
>Perception falls into abstraction category.
Our default state is to perceive certain kinds of things. Both hunger and spirituality fall here.
Arguing against God is like arguing against food.
Now, that doesn't really tell us what kind of food it is, or what kind of being God is.

>>9791027
Kek, but so does ISIS

>>9792670
>Arguing against God is like arguing against food
Not really.
In its absence, one can kill you and the other has no effect.

You don't need god or spirituality to survive, otherwise atheists would be dead.

I can agree by default our brain signals through ghrelin that we need more blood sugar. However, there's no such signal that we need more faith.
spirituality is exclusive to human beings. Abstraction too. I wonder why...

>>9791022

I'm surprised /lit/ hates on him so much because I'd say the majority of /lit/ loves Russian literature from which he borrows heavily.

>>9792706
>In its absence, one can kill you and the other has no effect.
>has no effect
Not eating food doesn't have an effect. Try it.

>>9791101

Got any stats to back this up? Even if you're right, though, it's hard to deny that "practical atheism" is on the rise. Increasingly people may still call themselves religious but not let any religious principles affect their ethics or routines.

>>9792732
Vocal minority, as with all agendas on this site.

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>>9791101
>Atheism is a religion

You might find your brain better suited to non-intellectual boards

>>9791022
sure, now it's on those same brainlets to evolve and realize peterson is also spewing shit

>>9791162
What do you think of Plato?

>>9792742
Let me repeat that over for you:
>In its absence, one can kill you and the other has no effect.
>kill you
>starvation = death = collateral effect for not eating
>>9792783
Can you be more specific? Because there's much to discuss about his views.

We also now have hundreds of young men who think they know what postmodernism when they truly, definitively do not

>>9791394
Sure we can

>>9791130
Modern Christianity is Jewish in origin and thought too. Many ideologies would be less harmful if they were natural ideas born of the communication between honest individuals. But as long as our thinking is led by outsiders pretending to be insiders all ideologies will be perverted.

>>9791154
Atheism is wrong and dangerous. Being true matters little. Even if it did, the average atheist does not believe in less lies than the average deist. Just different ones. It matters more that society as a whole believes in a single unifying ideology, true or not.

>>9791162
Pseudointellectuals are worse than the dumbest normies.

>>9792980
>It matters more that society as a whole believes in a single unifying ideology, true or not.
You just went back to the dark ages of the medieval world.
Good job.

You've just said: Critical thinking is pointless. I'll gladly accept anything that my community says and do.

>>9792980
> It matters more that society as a whole believes in a single unifying ideology, true or not.

No, not really.

>>9793039
>You just went back to the dark ages of the medieval world.

Should... should we tell him?

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>>9791101
I can't believe this bait got so many brainlets. Please die.

Atheism is a religion in the same way that dog shit is a flavour of ice cream. It isn't really, but that doesn't stop atheists from scraping it off the street, putting it in a cone, and licking it all up.

>>9791275
>(which is my case)
embarassing

>>9791162
>>9791211
But atheism posits a relationship between humanity and the supernatural: that between the existent and the non-existent. It also levels demands upon the practitioner: accept materialism to maintain your belief, or do not direct your thoughts toward this question. But those demands don't really matter. The fact that it posits an answer to the theological question offers sufficient justification for its inclusion among religions, especially for the purpose of sampling demographics.

>>9792925
What happens to your genetic lineage? What happens to your society?
Every civilization that lost its religion lost its way and itself.

>>9792848
>In its absence, one can kill you and the other has no effect.
>kill you
>starvation = death = collateral effect for not eating
Prove it. I can accept a stream.

who?

Nu autheists are fundies. They ignored
the moral lessons of religion because
they rightly feel theistic fundamentalism is
a problem. But we need to heed the lessons
of the bible. Joel Osteen is the problem,
not JBP.

>>9791101
It's not a religion and religion has been dying for thousands of years. Secularism and multiculturalism is pretty good at killing it in all but name too.

Materialist ancestor worship is the only acceptable religion for a healthy modern civilization. Venerating the ones that made your society great and emulating their qualities.

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>is this an admirable feat?
Only if you're a heathen without a debt to Archontes.

>>9793575
>religion has been dying for thousands of years
[citation needed]

>>9793575
Religion reached its apex only hundreds of years ago.

Peterson is literally the savior of western civilization

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I don't have the patience to include the designations of all offending posts within my own, so consider this addressed to you, reader, in spite of the fact that this is not the case.
You plebs should learn not to speak when you occupy the seat of ignorance. Read philosophy and the works of major theologians. I am baffled by the fact that you ignorant people are audacious enough to offer your own opinions. Your thoughts are all so base and devoid of substance. You'll never understand how foolish you are unless you dive into dialectics and consider the perspective of authors far beyond yourself when judged apropos of intellect. I would wager that all of the people who have posted in this thread are pure dilettantes who could collectively be coalesced into one caricature who has read three of the following books: 1984, Thus Spoke Zarathustra, Notes From The Underground, Crime And Punishment, The Metamorphosis, Blood Meridian, Animal Farm.

>>9792862
Well it's horseshit either way.

>>9793680
Peterson is a postmodernist himself

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>>9793665
>mfw hybrids try to ground acts in facts near me

>>9793702
Post-structuralism is not postmodernism

>>9791022
It is pretty impressive. I feel like a lot of the super edgy atheist pseuds have come to his side since they seem to act the same way when talking online. It's truly a weird phenomenon.

>>9793728
I know the difference (unlike Peterson)

Peterson is post modernist, not post-structuralist

>>9791101
This.

I know it's not a religion, but you get what he's trying to say.

>>9792745
http://www.pewforum.org/2015/04/02/religious-projections-2010-2050/

Atheism is growing, but shrinking as a percentage of the world population. It all comes down to birthrates.

>>9793591
What if your ancestors were super religious though? What would the point of worshipping such a person be if I didn't follow what was most important to them?

the nu-athiests are his fans, but they're currently going through a "religious" phase for le western civilization

>>9791165
You still really are in high school i see. Erudite speaker my ass. He talks as if his audience is a bunch of high schoolers. Thanks for giving me proof.

>>9793788
We're probably going to have a sterilization operation in the Middle East and Africa within 25 years so it's all good.

>>9793756

Being a perennialist pseud is the new fedora atheist.

All he's doing is saying what Nietzsche and Jung said.
1. Kill God
2. Wander aimlessly
3. Find viable value system through wandering.
4. Incorporate value system into a hierarchy.
5. Call it God

>>9793908
Yeah and we all know nietzsche and Jung are worthless nobodies who should have just distilled their thoughts into your post and called it a day.

This man's best part is how hard it triggers lit aka leftypol

Could someone recommend a Peterson starter video for someone already redpilled on the JQ and intellectual scams like postmodernism? I feel Peterson would be like going backwards, or something I'm already well beyond so I haven't paid him any attention.

>>9793575
Secularism and multiculturalism kill societies, not religions.

>>9793788
>a belief system that holds Darwinism as its chief doctrine
>actually reduces its members' reproductive fitness

Hilarious.

>>9792706
>you don't need god or spirituality to survive, otherwise atheists would be dead
pardon? atheists depend entirely upon the 'god and spirituality' of others- true or false- otherwise the movement completely lacks an object.

>>9794176
>>9794176
>pardon? atheists depend entirely upon the 'god and spirituality' of others- true or false- otherwise the movement completely lacks an object.

hahahaha§

>>9791285
>We should elevate our race above others

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>>9791285
>I think we should focus on 'the bringer of light', of new perspectives. We should value knowledge and shun ignorance.
And how are you going to "shun ignorance" and have "new perspectives" at the same time?

>So we should learn the path of two truths, our truth and their truth.
Oh...

Honestly, if you assume for a moment that the existence of God is simply a fact of the universe, similar to the molecular constituents of chocolate for example, it is pretty much inconsequential.

The question is what you do with the facts, is it not?

Knowing that you can smash heavy water together at high temperatures to produce a nuclear chain reaction is also inconsequential until the day you use that knowledge on a city and kill tens of thousands of people.

>>9791117
No, that'd be NIck Land.

>>9791022
Atheists are the easiest religious people to trigger.

>>9791138
>bigots
>creeps
what a fag

>>9791121
Says the /lit/ard.

>>9791275
How are you so bad at arguing against an assertion that is so fucking retarded?

This kind of shit is why Peterson posters believe (justifiably) that they're right

JP will complete the system of German Idealism.

>>9794344
Sure, like the bombs strapped on ISIS vests? Religious people sure do know about triggers don't they?

Get out of your basement once in a while, anon. Get real. Stop making childish generalisations.

He is a part of the nu-atheist movement. He is an atheist.
>>9791096
Fuck off to /r/eddit, psychobabblist.

>>9791138
>wants people to accept te merits of evolutionary psychology
>cannot himself accept the merits of bigotry and prejudice in the framework of evolutionary psychology
Fuck off loser, you just want to accept it for as long as it tells you things you like to hear.

>people don't think atheism is a religion
t. 17-year-old fedoracuntfuckhead that doesn't know a thing about religion

>>9791396
Christianity is the death of slave morality. You are the slave.

>>9792400
Because they are iconophiles. They have killed God because fidelity takes itself and sincerity.

>>9792643
None of Nietzsche's work is systematic. Anybody that claims so has never read Nietzsche.

Note that 'viewing' the book and reading are two very different things.

>>9792655
Evidence is irrelevant and nonexistent. God is relevant and existent.

>>9792706
Atheists are dead. Stop sucking yourself, STEMsperg.

he didn't do shit. go on places other than 4can, such as outside

>>9793039
There were no Dark Ages, they are a lie from the stinking horse-mouth of Humanists.
Critical thinking is irrelevant, it is a meme made by Humanists. You are not critical of anything other than what offends you.

>>9793437
Society and civilization need to die for God to thrive. Back to /pol/, viKANG.

>>9793591
Back to /pol/, viKANG. Society is not great and civilization is nonexistent. You are a Humanist like the rest.

>>9793908
Nietzsche mourned the Gottes Tod, psychobabblists like Jung and Peterson (the natural progeny of nihilists and proxy-nihilists (existentialists)) glorify it because it is a means to systematic weakness (worship of the Psyche)

The only viable thing a philosopher can do now is to kill the Psyche.

>>9794424
The only way to complete the system is to destroy it.

>>9791022
Who cares? Hitchens, Dawkins, and Dennett were always anywhere from questionable to flat-out terrible representatives of atheism, especially the retarded physical reductionist Dennett.
Atheism itself, luckily, is not a movement. It's a theory. One that makes a fucking whole lot more sense than the theory of any organized religion.
Atheism will continue to grow because it is vastly more likely to be true than theism.

It's really interesting where the followers of 'new atheism' have gone. It's like it's a pathway to be 'red-pilled': they begin to think about Islam's place in society, they begin questioning authority figures and traditional role models based on Hitchens' attacks on Mother Theresa and generally on the Pope. I know for a fact that many former 'new atheist' followers (teenagers) have turned into Trump supporters, libertarians etc. They go from Sam Harris to Dave Rubin and the 'classical liberal' meme and anti-SJW stuff. From there, there are a whole host of people like Peterson, Peter Hitchens, Douglas Murray (former 'new atheist' who now supports cultural christianity). With new folks like this filling up their YouTube viewing history, they open their minds to believing in God and often do.

I find very few actual supporters/fanboys of the 'new atheists' now. Instead, they have splintered off into factions of the right wing and, often, the centre. Many now believe in God, and many don't find religion/atheism important to who they are. They dismiss anti-theism as overly edgy.

>>9793591
WE

>>9794581
Truth doesn't exist. Atheism is invalid. Theories are STEMshit memes made to justify themselves through themselves. Something 'making sense' does not validate it.
Reddit is the website for you, idolater.

>>9794588
WUZ

>>9794596
VIKANGZ

>>9794591
t. brainlet

>>9794615
There is no brain, only my Will. Platonist memes cannot survive in its fog.

>>9794530
And a great amount of self-delusion.

>>9794626
The only deluded are the iconophiles. They love sitting on the fence, and impotence, and contemplation. Action and actual effect frighten them because they require fidelity. Fidelity is our gift but their poison.

>>9794629
How often does one hear of an atheist who has any sense of passion? Their passions are limited to 'nerd culture' and 'humanism' and other memes. To have passion, one requires fidelity. To jump on one's feet and scream: "This is what I love! No matter who or what or if, I will always love this and never miss the opportunity to express that!" takes something that fence-sitters lack completely.

The fence-sitter does not have the capacity to love. Instead, they sit and contemplate. They abstract a notion but never express. They are lazy, passive, weak consumers of things. They sit-watch or sit-read the new trending series' over while the theist re-expresses their love for a thing.

Never will you hear a fence-sitter proclaim: "This is what I believe in, and never will I not believe it! This is what I believe in, and I will defend it from all! This is my star! This is my world! These are my creations!" Rather, they are stuck in an ancient thought-trap. They are skeptical to the point that it is impractical or offensive. Even the professional skeptics do not go further than criticizing what they dislike while ignoring what they love passionlessly. They hold to the dead.

>>9794656
Obtaining knowledge from our universe is not an exercise of fidelity, but one of humility. The humility to accept we are small and the universe is big, the humility to accept we began as ignorants and slowly we learn.

There is no pride in stubbornness. Otherwise, every single action, even the ones which opposes to each other, would be justify.

>>9794668
There is no such thing as knowledge. You are not gaining anything but masturbation materials. Existentialist memes do not last in my God. There is no learning to be had. Stop stroking yourself, nihilist.

How dare you say 'our' universe? There is no universe, only existence. Universe is a systematizer's meme.

>>9794629
impotence and contemplation are the main weapons wielded by those that reject more accurate ways to observ our universe. In the meanwhile, the rest of the world moves, inquiries, and is excited to learn without any precondition

>>9792772
aka the whole website

>>9794673
And this existence, it is not yours either! It belongs only to me, and no millennia of systematizing will make it yours. You are an ignorant and always will be, and so will every last systematizer.
>>9794678
There is no universe, and no world. There is no accurate way to observe. Will you stop it with these memes? You are preconditioned already, you do not see this because you are sick with Platonism.

>>9794673
You definition of universe is a mere sensation, as my masturbations. And we can both observe and learn from that. To say the opposite is to negate our reality. All the things that happen, our current reality, we cannot understand them if we don't accept the big impact being able to observ it had in our lifes.

>>9794683
There is no reality. There is no understanding. Stop memeing yourself. There is nothing to observe or learn.

>>9794682
>There is no universe, and no world
Mere words, i cannot use them. I can't employ them. My life and the life of other human beings cannot take advantage of them. From the soldier to the poet, your self-contained view of the universe is only valid to you. Tomorrow you will visit your medic because your definition of universe didn't contemplate your pains

>>9794686
Pragmatism is another humanist meme. Drop it or it will kill you.

>>9794690
If this is the only way you have to justify your views, at least i can say i have justified arguments to refuse any kind of belief. Be careful with doors, they could actually exist. And your cultural inheritance won't be able to stop them. Very little knew your ancestors about the past, let alone about the future.

>>9794697
>arguments
>justification
>knowledge
More memes.
>ancestors
Fuck off, viKANG.

You have beliefs, just no fidelity to them.

How can a person that helps people annoy lit so much

is it because he doesn't like pomo in anyway?

>>9791121
>thinks he's above evolution

Lulz

>>9794767

He's passed the popularity threshold thus 4chan's hipster complex kicks in and he has to be torn down. It's so predictable that I swear someone could write a mathematical formula for it.

>>9794586
That's a very accurate representation of the situation. I used to be a new atheist fanboy about 3 - 4 years ago.

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>>9794656
>believing in an invisible sky-man who can't be objectively proven makes you a better person
>following a moral system because you feel forced to by the invisible sky man and his punishment of eternal torture instead of as your own decision due to your own personal character

>>9794586
Also, do you think past new atheist fan boys are generally better at critical thinking and have higher IQ's than most other groups?

>>9794806

I wish you guys had just died off, it's annoying to now be lumped in with you. I never forgot just how insufferable you were. You guys were cancer back then and God help us you'll find a way to infect this too.

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>nu-christians literally don't have a single foundation of their belief system besides "MUH FEEFEES"

>>9794813
You can't expect teenagers to act not in accordance to their age. I believe following the new atheist movement was a first step towards critical thinking for many people that later pushed them to learn more. Which is a great thing.

>>9794834
More like as society has gradually become more secular being a christian conservative became the new edgy contrarian thing.

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>>9794420
Then do a better job, smartypants.
>>9793431
Agnostic atheism is not a belief. It's a position.
>>9794537
>>9794541
>>9793315
>>9793442
>>9794176
>>

>>9794834

>can't expect teenagers to act any differently
>literally was a teenager, literally acted differently

Nah, there's no excuse.
The internet never forgets.
Your choices are to accept that you were a scourge upon humanity and atone for your sins, or keep making excuses and forego self-actualization forever.

>>9791211
dude you seriously don't see the irony in what you posted?

Okay I'm out of the loop. Who the fuck is this guy and why is lit talking about him?

>>9795025

>I don't know how peterson is plz explain it to me like i'm 5 meme

2 ironic 4 u

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>>9794807
>>9794815
If you are going to be baiting at least try to be humorous and more subtle than:

>"MUH FEEFEES"
>invisible sky-man
>following a moral system because you feel forced

>>9795027
No, explain it to me like I'm an old man who is too weary to keep up with every new meme you youngsters invent every five minutes. I'm your grandpa, anon. Will you not help your grandpa?
How heartless you are.

>>9795037

I'm literally probably older than you but ok

Dr. Jordan B. Peterson is a clinical psychologist and tenured professor of psychology at the University of Toronto and author of the 1999 book Maps of Meaning.
He was an obscure academic until 2016 when he released several videos on his youtube channel criticizing the Canadian government's bill C-16. If you want the full legal run-down I suggest you listen to Dr. Peterson himself but essentially the bill has to do with protecting gender identity and expression (preferred pronouns) and Dr. Peterson criticized it on the grounds of free speech.

There was a protest on the UoT campus that received a lot of meme attention and since then Peterson has become the newest addition to the alt-right roster because of his exceptional ability to identity ideology and articulate many of the problems associated with it especially the ideology of the New Left.

Besides that he also apparently teaches some undergrad level psychology courses that have lecture clips on youtube and he's become something of a father figure for this generation of lost young men because of his insistence on the importance of constructing meaning in life and his stance against post-modernism.

I got lazy at the end but that's the gist of it if you aren't retarded you could spend 30 minutes watching his videos and put most of the pieces together for yourself.

/lit/ get ready to see The Holy Bible being posted more and more frequently.

Mark my word. In less than one year, there will be no more place for pomo on this website.

>>9795060

Fine with me I'm frankly tired of seeing gaping ANAL DEVASTATION every time I go to a non work safe board anyways.

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>>9795060
sounds beautiful

>>9795037
>>9795049

Oh and I forgot to add - he sounds like Kermit the Frog.

>>9794685

>there is nothing to observe or learn

What about that point itself?

>>9791394
C'mon man you gotta know that you have to explain to us why not.

>>9791022
I've been watching hours worth of videos, of interviews with him and public speakings, and it's incredible. The more I learn of religion, the more respect I have for it. The more I learn of Communism/Marxism and how the left are ignorant to defend it so much, the more I take pride in being in a western Capitalist society that allows me to pursue my desire of having a writing career. I'm a proud Canadian, but people like Jordan Peterson and Lauren Southern make me even more proud. We'll get past Trudeau j.r., and we'll become great again, like we were under Harper. I'm hoping Prime Minister Scheer will steer us back on the right course once more. Another election, it cannot come soon enough, and I still hope to get a vote of non-confidence like those Liberal morons tried with Harper, only to end up giving him even MORE power.

>>9794782
He only said evolutionary psychology. Which can be argued against while maintaining evolution.

When did all these pathetic nu-atheists invade /lit/?

>I don't need spirituality or God

Good luck being ready for death. The funniest part is these people think they don't worship something, that they don't have a personal God. To use Tillich's words, we all have an ultimate concern, thus we all have faith, the only question is what this concern is because it can either completely fulfill you or utterly destroy you.

>>9795226

You're projecting.
I know it's hard to believe but there are a class of people who don't feel the need to "be ready" for death. For them life is just a succession of animal pleasures and then they go to sleep.
Something happened to you that engendered an anxiety of being. They don't have that.

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>>9795226
EHHH ABOBO BGUGUUUUUUUU
DUHHHH JUHHHH DEEEEEEETH
AGUGUGUUUUUUU
BLUUUUUUUBLUUUUUUUUUUUU
FUUUUGUGUUUUUUUU LIEEEFFF
JEEEEZZZZZZZZZUSSSSSSSS
KRISSSSSSSSSTOSSSSSSSSSS

>>9795226
>Being religious out of fear of death
Pathetic

>>9795230
I don't have anxiety, but everyone of us grapples with the question of being. Also, we can't have it one way: we are both animals and rational beings capable of abstraction, otherwise we wouldn't be having this conversation. So if someone does spend their life only chasing pleasure, they're rejecting and repudiating consciousness; they're running away from the question.

>>9795245
Lol, you said fear bucko, not me. But just as a musician prepares for a gig, one must also prepare themselves for death as the culminating event of their life.

>>9795247

>I don't have anxiety

Yes you do or you never would have formulated your original point in such a way. I have no idea why you're trying to walk it back now when it's a perfectly valid thing to feel.

>everyone of us grapples with the question of being

Literally untrue.

>otherwise we wouldn't be having this conversation.

You and I are having this conversation. Where are the normies? Not having this conversation. And they never will.

>they're running away from the question

No they aren't, the question simply doesn't exist for them.

>>9795261
Seems like you're projecting, or maybe we don't agree on what anxiety means. I don't mean preparation in the sense of ensuring that I go to an afterlife, but as I said in my other post, as a musician would prepare themselves for a performance, for after all living is dying well. I accept that it is as much a part of life as is birth, and when it comes that will be my time. But not many people can say that they are living their lives in a way that they are resolute or ready to die, as a performer would be ready to perform at a moment's notice.

By the question of being I mean: why is there something rather than nothing?Sure, it's possible that this thought never crosses others' minds, but I do believe that everyone is capable of experiencing wonder, which is the same kind of feeling that such a question generates.

Finally, the capacity to have conversation generally is evidence of consciousness; I don't mean this particular conversation. The fact that we all use language proves that we aren't just mere animals, so again, a life of pure pleasure is a rejection of this faculty.

>>9795304

Wow holy fuck you are memed.
I'm embarrassed that I didn't see this sooner and actually tried to reply.

>>9794531
I student-taught a course on Nietzsche at an accredited state university. Where your retardation kicks in is missing that I said it was his most systematic work, nowhere implying it was an especially systematic work.

>>9794523
Sleepwalking through life is indeed easier than being awake. Stay sleepy, christcuck brother.

>>9794516
False, he's a devout Christian.

>>9795323
I guess you're incapable of actually having a discussion.

>>9795384

Yeah that must be it couldn't be anything else

>>9794516
Wrong.
>>9795367
This, he has come out as being a devout Christian, and has spent something like 20-40 years thinking about how Christianity and science can be considered in unison since it's often seen as a matter of religion vs science rather than religion AND science.

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brehs...
how was our kermitdad possibly this cute?

>>9795392
>Wow holy fuck you are memed

Am I supposed to know what that means? Sounds like everything in my post went right over your head.

>>9795028
give literally one piece of evidence that any sort of God exists

>>9795434

>Am I supposed to know what that means?

I guess not b/c if so then you wouldn't be memed.
Think of it this way your words in this thread were something all the rest of us can learn from.

>>9795230

That's because they're already dead inside.

>>9795451
Define God.

>>9795463
A divine being that rules over some or all aspects of existence with a will of its own which has helped to shape the forces of the universe that we live in and which actively intervenes in the lives of men.

>>9795468
Define being.

>>9795025
He tells the conservakiddies what they want to hear because now being a christian is the edgy contrarian thing to do

>>9795455
See, a discussion is supposed to be an attempt to reach an understanding, but you clearly can't do that. I guess you want to appear clever. Meme is such a buzzword that it can be thrown around in any given situation without it actually having any bearing on the conversation, but have at it friend.

>>9795480

Define define

>>9795480
A sapient existence

for a website that used troll cults, a lot of the younger crowd seem desperate to join one.

>>9795484

It actually has nothing to do with me when I read your post I realized that all further communication with you would be utterly useless.
You're being petulant now about being memed.
I will say that if there is any possible point of understanding between us you have like 95% of the distance to travel.

>>9795489
What is Peterson'¨s cult? The self-help stuff? That doesn't seem cultish to me.

>>9795487
There is no "evidence" for anything like that. But if you don't believe any such thing exists then you must think that you're a strength-less automaton with zero influence on the world.

>>9795515
What is the reason for this dichotomy? There is nothing wrong with life being a happy accident.

>>9795514
yes, none of his fans sound like the atheist fans or scientologists or fundamentalists of any sort. that anon is just part of the evil world that seeks to tempt you.

>>9795512
Jesus, you're such a child. Have a nice life m8.

>>9795534
Seems like You are ready to throw everyone onto a bus into Jonestown.

>>9795541
of course, i too am part of the evil world that seeks to tempt you. best avert your eyes

>>9794629
>>9794656
YES
E
S

>>9794656
>To have passion, one requires fidelity. To jump on one's feet and scream: "This is what I love! No matter who or what or if, I will always love this and never miss the opportunity to express that!" takes something that fence-sitters lack completely.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=qQgXEkL3NV4

>>9795520
>There is nothing wrong with life being a happy accident.

There is actually. In the Judeo-Christian tradition, the universe was created by a rational God, and it follows from this that the universe is predictable. This is in contrast to most other religions and belief systems do not posit a creation at all. The universe is said to be eternal, without beginning or purpose, and never having been created, it has no creator. From this view, the universe is a supreme mystery, inconsistent, unpredictable, and arbitrary. For those holding this view, the only paths to wisdom are meditation, inspiration or revelation.

This idea of a rational creation is important for scientific discovery because without it there's no good reason to believe that the universe is rational and predictable, and it follows that there's no good reason to engage in scientific experiments. After all, if the laws of physics could randomly change or if we don't accept causality then no true knowledge could ever be gained from reason and experiment. A belief in a rational creation is the foundation for science.

This is why Muslims are so backwards, most of them believe that anything that happens is through Gods will which he can change at any time and that the only way to gain true knowledge is through revelation. Moderns atheists are taking us down a very similar road that the Asharites took the Muslims down. They're rejecting the very foundation of knowledge and they're not replacing it with anything. This is very important question that they're failing to answer: If God isn't real and we aren't created then why shouldn't we believe that the universe is unpredictable?

>>9795580
>This is in contrast to most other religions and belief systems do not posit a creation at all.
wat?

>>9791022
It's pretty incredible to think about the amount of games the average human commits to, with his own fantasy team on his side and the opposing warlocks on the other. The sportsmanship taken as anything but itself, always leading to zealous points of view and their shadow opposites with different stripes different colors on the field of talking heads. And each team keeps score strictly of the others losses, ignoring their wins, continuing to shitty processed foods produced by shitty processed people, a borderline fanatic loyalty to Coke over Diet Come, ignoring the genocide that is human trafficking that is going on in the parking lots (FBI: Kids 13 to 17 rescued from Super Bowl prostitution; USA Today), ignoring the hopelessness of any true intellect stuttering amoung the crowd of future corpses.

>>9795585

I'm talking about creation ex nihilo or from nothing. Pagans don't deal with this and the question of creation is ultimately irrelevant to most eastern religions.

>>9795580

You're bending over backwards to nest the scientific method in the "Judeo-Christian tradition."
In fact you're basically going so far as to credit Christianity for procedure.
Let's remind ourselves that this is also the religion of the Trinity and the Immaculate Conception. How are miracles predictable? It undermines your entire point.

The basis of scientific procedure is the observation of cause and effect which even animals can notice. It has absolutely nothing to do with the idea of a rational god, which is debatable as christian dogma anyways.

>>9795580
is this bait?

>>9795594
yeah the vikings didn't know the heavens were made from imir's skull and from his bones the mountains were made. most of the religions that christianity replaced had creation myths, as do most other major world religions, as do extinct and pagan ones from gods vomiting up the planets on a bad trip one night to dead beautiful women's tits being the islands on which they lived. the sound aum is supposed to be the first sound after creation, which what all that eastern humming is about. you're basically assuming it's not there because you want to think your very sheltered christian culture background is unique, when it's not for that. every culture has a need to explain its origins and the world around it, that's why so many pagans claim to be directly descended from a god. (cf Brahmans where you're incarnated as a more spiritual being because of your genetic descent and the basis of the caste system)

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>>9795520
>A divine sapient existence that rules over some or all aspects of existence with a will of its own which has helped to shape the forces of the universe that we live in and which actively intervenes in the lives of men.
"Divine" is an attribute dependent on the perspective of the one who applies it to a thing. Any "sapient existence" in the world can be divine under the proper enlightenment. Any "divine sapient existence" can be said to rule over some aspects of existence and help shape "forces of the universe" unless it is utterly deprived of strength and will. Such can have a will of its own depending on how you define will.

Really, your definition is vague enough that it can be applied to all recognizable things in some way. The "God problem" is only a problem among people who look at the works of the ancients and disregard the zeitgeist of their respective ages. The ancients did not see a separation between symbolism and reality like we do, these things were of the same mixture to them. The usage of the word and concept God by the ancients then becomes mangled when parsed through modern lens. They never quite meant that a bearded man or glowing orb of will lived in the skies somewhere like a puppeteer of the universe, much like how the Greeks did not quite mean that Olympus and the gods were there in the skies either. They believed in their existences to be sure, but their beliefs were of a different nature than ours. I would say that you could more easily relate it to our modern belief in characters in a work of fantasy and our ability to form emotional, meaningful, REAL relationships with them (as far as our consciousness is concerned) than to our modern understanding of organic structures in the world.

The gods have changed form, but in all ages and forms of the spirit they have always been something of a controller. That which has control is also something we must attribute to a thing. So what are the possibilities?

1. We feel that the world is outside our control and it controls us. Thus there are gods and lesser gods that control either the universe or some aspect of it.

2. We feel that the world is in our control to some or all extent. Thus we are gods or lesser gods.

It all rests on the temperament of yourself.

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>>9795580
>mfw about to say "but that's just human rationality"
>when rationality is only mantained by humans

>>9795612

You're not understanding, there is no pagan "first cause." The Norse creation myth doesn't even attempt to explain where Imir's skull came from. This is all besides the point because even if they did have an ex nihilo creation myth it still doesn't mean the creation is rational and follows consistent laws. They're more like Muslims in that regard.

>>9795612

>he doesn't know the difference between mythological time and historical time

>>9795625
Odin killed Imir the ice giant and from his body the earth was made. They literally have a whole sagas to explain it. You're ignorant.

Brahma is considered the creator of the universe, and while there is debate as to whether he is self born, or born from the navel of Vishnu, yes, he created the world as much as is described in genesis though, and in the earliest scriptures is described as the all creator including creating all other gods and Vishnu of himself. Again, you think your head pictures are reality when really they're just reflective of talking out of your asshole.

>>9795631
>he thinks he's better versed on the problems of calendars and dating than someone studying pagan religion
:3

>>9795634

This is stupid. If Brahma has a creator then he's not the first cause, and if Vishnu can't explain her own existence then she's not the first cause. You're failing to comprehend what ex nihilo is and I shouldn't have spent this much time talking to you.

>>9795640

>responds to a diagnosis of his category mistake by literally intensifying it

>>9795645
Brahma is literally called "self born". He is his own cause. I've literally just told you this and you're too retarded to understand a 4chan post, so the chances of you being a scholar of any sort is pretty much nil.

>>9795650
>is probably triggered by every mention of the October Revolution
It's okay Bobby everyone knows it wasn't in European Christian October.

Piggybacking onto this thread to ask something I've been pondering:

Do you think that intelligent depressed people need more intelligent psychologists?

I've had depression on and off for five years or so, but have always refused to speak to a therapist because I know they work from a cognitive-behavioural perspective which mostly centres around finding and challenging irrational cognitions - e.g. Client: "Everybody hates me and doesn't want to be around", Therapist: "Is that true? What evidence do you have for that? Do you think you could be exaggerating?" etc. However, it sounds arrogant but I genuinely don't think that would work for me because in some ways I'm too intelligent. I already scan my cognitions frequently and everything seems very rational. My depression has more of an existential nature. However, I listened to some of Peterson's lectures about how the quest for happiness is far less important than the quest for purpose, and some of that made much more sense to me, and I feel like I'd maybe make progress if I had a therapist like him.

>>9795675

>tfw too intelligent to be understood by mental health professionals

>>9795675
cbt went out of fashion. mindfulness is the new gag. seem up your alley. most of the benefit is having a chat with someone of social esteem, like going to a priest used work.

if you want to make it interesting, look up some witchdoctor or eastern shit (obvs research any remedy they want to give you like you should jesus juice).

>>9795634
That wasn't the beginning you idiot. Norse myth starts at a great abyss which then separates into two poles that give rise to a sacrificial/productive animal, which THEN feeds Ymir so a trinity (and not Odin alone) can separate him.

>>9795698
It's the beginning of Midgard, which is what God creates in Genesis.

>>9795698
Also what you're describing isn't the start. It's the start of one of the nine worlds.

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>>9795700
And?

>>9795706
Are there any texts on the starts of the other worlds?

>>9795687
I know that it sounds ridiculous, but that's genuinely how I feel. I should add that I have two degrees in psychology and have met quite a few people in training to become clinical psychologists, and haven't really respected many of them on an intellectual level. Yes I know that sounds really arrogant, and I don't even think I'm THAT intelligent myself (certainly not genius-tier), but I just didn't feel like these people had any real grasp on the experience of depression, or at least the type of depression that I had (I'm starting to think that the label depression is pretty meaningless, as there's a very wide range of different experiences of the disorder, which are only loosely linked by groups of symptoms).

>>9795690
Yeah I'm aware of mindfulness and have practiced it myself, although I think the way it's most commonly applied in clinical psychology is through mindfulness-based CBT, so you still have the cognitive-behavioural paradigm. Personally I've found it a very effective way of dealing with extreme sadness and learning to cope with a range of emotion, but it doesn't really help with the 'lack of purpose' side of things. I'd still recommend it to anyone with depression though.

>>9795718

You seem dreadfully spooked by intelligence. What if "no one is intelligent enough for me" is just a defense mechanism so you never actually have to open up and confront your issues?
What exactly do they need to be intelligent enough to understand? To be frank it's a rather stupid idea. Is your depression a math problem? They need to be intelligent enough to provide the solution?

>>9795698
Before you freak out about this>>9795706, the Biblical God (which is the creation myth of Muslims too kek) only creates the equivalent of Midgard from nothing. In the Norse myth it clearly says that in the beginning there was the great void, then from the south came the fire winds, then from the north where ice shadows lurked and from these formed the ice god, from which the world was ordered by Odin who arranged the body into the heavens and earth and mountain and seas, which were turned by the warm wind of the sun created in the gods' cauldron until they brought forth life. That is Odin creating an ordered and rational world, the one which winds up killing Odin again when the worm rises and winter comes back. That is a world to the same extent as what God created and with the same rationality order and foreclosure as the Christian one. Even down to hanging the constellations by which they navigate.

>>9795712
jesus you're dumber than a tolkienite and trying to lecture people about myths
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yggdrasil

>>9795736
>In the Norse myth it clearly says that in the beginning there was the great void,

The void is not nothing.

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>>9795742
"NOTHING" is not-Nothing-nothing because it assumes observer that can assert that there is nothing

huehuehe go drown yourself in marxist cum sophist faggot

>>9795730
It's hard to describe, but my main problems are the same sorts of things I've since read about in existentialism. It's a bit bourgeois, but I've always been genuinely troubled about questions about the purpose of life, what happens after death, etc. When I was younger these sorts of questions would haunt me so much that I'd actually feel physically sick and start shaking, although I'm much better at dealing with them now (mostly through acceptance and focusing on other things). But I always worry that it will come back and affect me like it did in the past. The thing is, I don't see it as being completely irrational to be troubled by these sorts of things - a whole host of some of the most intelligent writers throughout history were troubled too, to the point of suicide in some cases. I can't see CBT as being adequate to deal with that, which is why I need something more.

>>9795736
>In the Norse myth it clearly says that in the beginning there was the great void, then from the south came the fire winds, then from the north where ice shadows lurked and from these formed the ice god, from which the world was ordered by Odin who arranged the body into the heavens and earth and mountain and seas, which were turned by the warm wind of the sun created in the gods' cauldron until they brought forth life. That is Odin creating an ordered and rational world, the one which winds up killing Odin again when the worm rises and winter comes back.
Why are you restating what I said? Do you think more words are going to make a difference?

>Yggdrasil
Where does it say it was created (and how)? Ctrl+f gives me nothing.

>>9795718
>Yeah I'm aware of mindfulness and have practiced it myself, although I think the way it's most commonly applied in clinical psychology is through mindfulness-based CBT, so you still have the cognitive-behavioural paradigm.
they really go through phases on this. cbt is dying and a therapist that recommends it is probably not hip. dbt is a new one, which is mindfulness related and created by a BPD psychologist for BPD people, and it's going well. the eye movement people had a brief moment but i think they're losing momentual compared to dbt. cbt was just starting off getting big around the millennium but it's nowhere near as strong as it was even five years ago, and you're more likely to get a different fad.
cbt should technically address lack of purpose (especially since a lot of purpose is doing it until you see results which might take a lot of persevering at a behaviour until it becomes normal/pays off in results).

instead of blogposting here, you could read Crazy Like Us by Ethan Watters, which is about how classifying mental illness makes people more sick in fad ways, and how the DSM definition of a lot of things is invading a lot of cultures. it's a bit like a Bill Bryson of mental illness from around the world and how sometimes the witchdoctors are doing better than the West. or if you want to be all intellectual about it, The Anatomy of Melancholy might help.

>>9795759

dude existentialism is a meme you sound like you have generalized anxiety disorder
you don't need peterson you need fuckin meds

>>9795742
it's called the measureless absence, so yeah, it's pretty nothing.

>>9795767
>why are you repeating
Because you have a problem absorbing new information. This is the second time, btw.
>Ctrl+f gives me nothing
I gave you wikipedia because you're dumb enough to not know about the world tree. That is basic shit, and I'm not spoonfeeding your arrogant ass shit. Work for yourself if you want to not be ignorant. what does a root need to grow into a tree?

>>9795769
I don't know, I think it's still the dominant tradition for clinical psychology (in the UK at least). My favourite clinical psychology professor was a big adherent of it and had studied under Beck (the man who originally pioneered it), but he also acknowledged the need for it to evolve through things like mindfulness, and was also a DBT practitioner too. He's a BPD specialist, so maybe that's why. Crazy Like Us sounds very interesting, I'll definitely check it out.

>>9795773
Not a big fan of meds at all desu, although I've never been on them

>>9795785
>Because you have a problem absorbing new information.
It's not a matter of information. You bringing up more shit won't change that. You think we're disagreeing in how things went about when that's not the point.

>That is basic shit
If it were basic I could not contest it.

>what does a root need to grow into a tree?
Your face meeting the back of my hand.

>>9794571
So back to Buddha then?

>>9794029
Message to millenials

>>9795820
>It's not a matter of information. You bringing up more shit won't change that. You think we're disagreeing in how things went about when that's not the point.
If you could read that whole paragraph you would see the point of the paragraph is that creation myth creates as much a world as the Christian one does. Your overall claim that other religions do not have that myth is ignorant in the extreme, and portraying it as your words when you flip flopped on the Midgard story and patently haven't read the Eddas is laugh, because you're so ignorant you don't know the context of the story you're trying to claim you raised (though I brought it up as proof of other creation myths which are equivalent causes of the oikoumene look it up, your pretentious ass will love it

>It's basic shit
It's from the same book that tells the story you claim to have brought up about midgard, though you seem not to have read that at all and seem to think anyone believes you're not ignorant, when it's a kid's book in a lot of the world, and heavily referenced in in genres as low as fantasy. :)

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>another day another peterson poster

This pseud is cancer and only appeals to /pol/tards

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>>9791022
This meme alone killed an entire religion

>>9795851
>Your overall claim that other religions
Are the quotes on my name not showing on your side? Is moot (pbuh) truly so far away?

>you're so ignorant you don't know the context
If you can't handle the field, go back in the castle, you pansy noble.

>look it up, your pretentious ass will love it
I will you some day you cunt.

>when it's a kid's book in a lot of the world
I only read stuff for grown ups I'm afraid.

>>9795883
>Are the quotes on my name not showing on your side? Is moot (pbuh) truly so far away?
let me show you the start of the quote chain you're in
>>9795580
>>9795585
>>This is in contrast to most other religions and belief systems do not posit a creation at all.
>wat?

so yeah, that's what we're talking about, how that statement is retarded. complete with examples.

>>9795883
>If you can't handle the field, go back in the castle, you pansy noble.
>WAAAAH I SHOULDN'T HAVE TO READ BOOKS
You don't have to, it just means a lot of other people can truthfully say you clearly haven't read enough on this subject to be considered even basic. Get basic if you can't get good.
>I only read stuff for grown ups I'm afraid.
Nobody's buying that, babby.

>>9795894
>that statement is retarded. complete with examples.
Tell me where I have disagreed with this.

>You don't have to
Then do the dignified thing and be quiet.

>Get basic if you can't get good.
Being good is the only way to have a base. Nothing to do with knowing anything.

>Nobody's buying that, babby.
This is the confessionary not the market place.

>>9795925
>WE WEREN'T ARGUING AT ALL
uhuh sure buddy, you're exceptionally bad at being wrong and proven wrong.

>>9796186
Don't you mean I'm *good* at being wrong and proven wrong? Was that a Freudian slip? Are you coming onto me?

>>9796197
>Are you coming on to me
There's a reason you're lonely and desperate to prove otherwise. It's probably the same reason why you pretend you read books. I'm guessing you're not going to read up on the shit you were wrong about and instead invest time trying to sell the idea you're not shit to me. Have a (You), it won't make you less alone or dumb.

>>9796254
Whoa, you're a sore winner!

>you're not going to read up on the shit you were wrong about
Not right now, no. I gotta masturbate.

>invest time trying to sell the idea you're not shit to me
Should I try to sell the idea I *am* shit instead, wise master?

>>9791022
I have a genuine question. How can I be an atheist whitout becoming a fedora, edge lord, dawkins fanboy, etc. ? Is it possible? I'm a really simple guy. I wasn't raised religious, I enjoy religious literature so to speak but I can't stand speaking with loud obnoxious religious fanatics.

>>9794782
Evolution is a nonexistent meme made up by humanists in the 1800s

>>9794046

An irony so perfect it's almost Divine.

>>9794807
Back to /r/eddit, illiterate.
'objectivity' is nonexistent. One cannot be conscious and still OBserve like an OBject.

>>9794815
>foundations are good because muh reddit meme

>>9794834
>critical thinking and learning is good because my ideologue teachers said so

>>9794850
Agnostic atheism is a belief, you aimless dualist

>>9795096
That point is my Will
>>9795230
Nihilists have already died and continue to die. They love death because it is familiar to them.

>>9795345
>teaching
Sorry, you're still wrong!
Why would I care if the university is accredited? The most accredited of universities are the worst of universities.

are people paid to shill this peterson clown?

>>9795350
You are the one sleeping, though.
>>9795367
Jungians cannot be Christian. They worship the icon Psyche.
>>9795402
Science has no place in Christianity. Science is garbage humanist hand-waving.

>>9795451
Evidence doesn't exist, sorry!
>>9795489
Fucko, you're 17 at best. I'm 29, I was here when /b/ and such were pulling that crap, while you've only heard stories. Fucko, back to /r/eddit. You stink of semen and skateboards.

>>9795580
THIS IS INCORRECT, THERE IS NO RATIONAL GOD IN CHRISTIANITY. GOD WAS REDUCED INTO A RATIONAL BEING BY HUMANISTS AND GR(EEK)S. GOD DID NOT CREATE A MECHANISTIC UNIVERSE, BUT A PURE EXISTENCE

>>9795597
>these things offend me so they cant happened!
Upset pagan
Science is invalid, there is no cause and effect. You are deluded into believing such nonsense because it is easier than accepting God and His World.

>>9796510
>Fucko
>twice
are you seriously LARPing as a 29 y/o who has been here since he was 20 and think that's how you should talk?

>>9795675
Psychologists belong on a pyre. They need to stop existing.

>>9795823
Buddha does not kill the Psyche, he kills the Pathos

>>9796528
Are you telling me that I should talk in a certain way?
O' HOW HORRIBLE! I LOOK UNPROFESSIONAL TO SOME JERK-OFF! MY HONOUR!
I've actually been here since I was 15.

>>9796496
Jordan Peterson Is a Christian scientist, and is proving that civilization needs both science and Christianity. Science tells what things are. Christianity tells us how we should act. Science tells us what is. Christianity tells us what we ought. Christianity has given us this society that has lead to the pursuit of science, but in recent decades people have been straying away from Christianity. This might not necessarily be due to science, but either way, it has lead to reckless sex, broken homes (since "til death do you part" no longer means anything), ruined lives for men/women/children, and in general it would seem that the farther we stray from the basis of our western culture (Christianity) the more we tend to suffer.

If marriage was still maintained, there would be less men suffering from having their kids ripped away from them and with the Government reaching in their pocket to force them to give money to the bitch that divorced him and took his children. If marriage was still maintained, there would be less women suffering as they become old, lonely, and poor. Or even if they manage to become wealthy, they often still end up old and alone, with nobody to spend the ages of 40-80 with. If marriage was still maintained, there would be less suffering of people in general because about 80% of criminals in US prisons were raised by single mothers. Murderers, rapists, drug abusers, not to mention all the suicides; marriage WORKS. It might be difficult in the short run, it might need lots and lots of patience and work in the short run, but in the long run it is so unbelievably worth it.

Western culture, which has developed the greatest society ever conceived in human history, was born of Christianity and further improved upon with science. We need both. Without both, we will suffer and fail.

>>9796524

>there is no cause and effect
this is what happens when brainlets read hume

>>9796553
>Jordan Peterson Is a Christian scientist
Do you know what that term means?

>>9796553
Stop with the dick-sucking. I don't care about 'muh society' or 'we wuz vikangz' or whatever meme you pull out of your ass. Science is invalid, civilization is inherently evil. Science belongs in the pyre alongside all proponents of it.

He is not Christian, he is a disgusting pragmatist. It is a disgusting American (protestant) illness.

>>9796564
I understand that sentence, yes.

>>9796555
I came to this conclusion before I actually read Hume. Furthermore, Hume still believed in a systematic universe as opposed to a mere existence.

>>9796576
Alright bro
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Science

>>9791101
>t. Secularist identitarian religious pleb living in a country built by secularists and the deistic non-orthodox

>>9796578

>i came to this conclusion before i actually read Hume

wow so you're even more retarded than i originally thought

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>>9796553
Negating suffering is the most heathen thing you could do with your life.

>>9791138
I think it has less to do with Evolutionary Psychology being unilaterally true across the board than it does the fact that you literally can't test for these conclusions and therefore can't really apply the scientific method.

Evolutionary Psychology is basically just painting a bullseye where your arrow already landed.

>>9794656
You are mentally ill.

>>9791165
>People like him because he's an excellent speaker

He sounds like a fucking muppet

>>9791377
The point of Russel's Teapot is that it's unfalsifiable, you twat. Making unfalsifiable claims doesn't mean you're always right, that's ridiculous.

These are meaningless questions. Give me something we can test.

>>9791413
>if you KNOW that god exists, your faith means nothing

I don't know of this was intended, this was kind of brilliant. Religion is like a magic trick, as soon as you figure out the trick (knowing god exists) the magic (the faith) is gone.

What if religion is less about the actual content and more about the act of faith? Kind of like placebos. We've all seen faith healers, imagine those people during hunter gatherer times. What if faith, not religion, has some type of biological imperative?

>>9791022
People have just realized how hollow it is
its a movement for edgy teens but they grow out of it when they search for meaning and truth
and truth is nobody knows anything

>>9797240
Pretty much this, intellectually I think the ""masses"" are maturing to an extent, myself included. I'm actually pretty optimistic when it comes to where the public's philosophy and beliefs are headed

I watched both of Peterson's Joe Rogan appearances and most of his 2017 Maps of Meaning. I entirely ignored all his political/personal videos and anything to do with his idea of philosophical postmodernism.

You aren't the rest of you doing this? The main criticisms of him are based on his political views, which appear in the lectures only occasionally. Also I was genuinely surprised at the reaction to his podcasts with Sam Harris. It was as if people perceived an underlying spy vs spy element that I thought was completely absent from both podcasts, with the exception of Harris's brilliant criticism of Joseph Campbell-type interpretation of mythology (for Peterson's convincing rebuttal, see Maps of Meaning lectures 8 & 9)

>>9797683
Exactly what I do too. Some of his political points have appealed to me, but given the either dishonest or supremely misinformed way he talks about postmodernism, I've decided not to pay too close attention to the politics. In most other areas, he's brilliant. He helped me start thinking about religion in a way I desperately needed

>>9796487
I honestly wonder if this is the case.

The obsession with him and the memes about him seem way too forced.