Whenever an anime protagonist started ranting about morals and

You have to realize that this stuff is aimed at teens and failed adults, they don't try to go much further than some moral ambiguity about the character's actions.
There are more "mature" anime and manga series, but even they would feel lacking if you took it any more seriously than the medium is supposed to be.
I'm actually in the process of reading F/S N right now, and it's definitely noticeable that it is made for teens.

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shintoism + zen buddhism + confucianism + christianity + martial warrior culture + american occupation = ???

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>>9789810
While it is certain that it is aimed at teens and outcasts I feel completely estranged by anime and manga ideologically, its as if nips never heard the ten commendments... thats when it hit me that they probably never had! At least not during childhood when it mattered. Even if you come from an atheistic family you've probably heard of the ten commendments as a child but let's not get hooked up by those - there is a lot of philosophy and ethics hardcoded into the literature aimed at children, what is right and wrong is taught from birth but I believe that our right and wrong differs from the japanese right and wrong. How much though?

>>9789790
their humor is a clear window into their kitschy culture. they're juvenile as hell.

>>9789790
Asians care about ethics and collectivism. A Westerner would see that as dysfunctional of course.

>>9789833
What are you trying to say?
>>9789845
Are implying that they love their drama to the death?
>>9789848
How are ethics dysfunctional?

>>9789860
>to the death?
i don't understand what you mean, but i will just say they don't have a sense of boundless shame as the west does, they are as members of eden before the fall, innocent and foolish, our bomb was an apple of knowledge. most anime criticism revolves around the interpretation of the bomb, and some even assume that anime is born from the fantasy world japan was driven into as a society by the traumatic event that locked them into a childish state, their expressions taking the form of a juvenile sort. much like an adult can remain a child in the mind, locked in the time they were abused or what have you.

>>9789860
Ethics is about contributing to society in and compromising your own interests in order to fit in. Westerners as a rule are individualists. This site as a fairly good reflection of western values. The average anon would dismiss any attempt to accommodate another person as "cuckoldry".

>>9789867
>selflessness is inherently ethical
jesus fucking christ.

>>9789864
They are not ashamed of sex but would commit suicide if they injured another person's honor. So juvenile.
Westerners who are ashamed of their natural instincts and could care less about hurting other people are so much more mature!

>>9789872
Ethics is not selfless. Don't interpret "compromising your own interests" as selflessness. But compromising is ethics nevertheless.

>>9789882
committing suicide based on honor isn't a foolish and juvenile thing to do? "oh, i stepped on your floor and forgot to take off my shoes, better commit sudoku". really sensible.
westerners are shamed to the point of temperance, they are willing to be asinine cretins in this world, knowing that they were born asinine cretins. they are lodged in life, whereas the child has a whimsical sense of suicide based on the merest scent of shame. we are floating in shame in the west. only our foolish and juvenile teenagers kill themselves, they and the juvenile and foolish rockstars or mentally ill. noticing a pattern? your seppuku as a rule falls under the inability to accept one's own mistakes, and strive to transform themselves. most westerners make idiot moves believing that some day they'll get better at not being dolts if they're just patient enough, or work hard enough. they're often wrong, but they don't give up just because of a one time besmirchment.

>>9789896
what is selflessness but compromising one's own interests for others? pretty sure that's exactly what it is.

>>9789916
If we assume that then is ethics inherently selfless or do you have a different definition of ethics.

>>9789922
no, ethics is a system by which one exerts their morals, you defined ethics as "about contributing to society in and compromising your own interests in order to fit in."
which is easily conflated with the concept of selflessness, at which i scoffed, as ethics are hardly whatever strange shit you just equated them to.

>>9789922
to expound,
a moral statement would be "it is wrong to kill"
an ethical statement would be "i am not going to kill because it is wrong". it's like a vehicle, morals on their own are simply axioms, ethics are the systems through which these axioms are put into effect in one's life. not necessarily he lives of all people. one can have a personal ethical system.

>>9789833
the motherfucker in your image is pretty much the only interesting anime character ever

>>9789929
>>9789942
Ethics and morals are two different things. Morals are not necessarily ethical. Look it up or something.
In any case what I am saying is not that Asians are more moral. I am saying that they are more socially conscious.

>>9789949
okay, i'm going to assist you. this is the definition of ethics as per google:
moral principles that govern a person's behavior or the conducting of an activity.

do you understand now that you didn't know what ethics are?

>>9789949
also, i would disagree that asians are more socially conscious. the difference is the culturally accepted reaction to social situations. one might seem to be socially unconscious of something in one culture, when in reality, in their own culture, the reaction is simply different. say i don't bow, and instead offer my hand for a handshake. this is an example of both people being courteous according to their culture, however, it could be seen as offensive to either party. often, in fact, westerners are being more socially aware when they forgo their cultural tendency to offer a handshake, and bow in accordance with an asian's culture. that is a great example of how westerners are often quite socially aware and wish to avoid a socially awkward situation.

>>9789909
Because you are applying your western understanding of what responsibility is. Responsibility is accepting the consequences of your actions.
A westerner's way of thinking is more functional:
"If you broke something fix it. Then everything will be alright."
Asians are more about how other people feel.
It doesn't matter what you did. What matter is that somebody "feels" bad because of it.
So your most important task is to indicate to that person that you didn't actually mean to hurt them.
Even in the west if we feel that we hurt somebody's feelings we would have to apologize and only if our apology is accepted will we be allowed to go on. This is common politeness.
Seppuku is just taking this concept of politeness to the extreme. If you hurt somebody's honor then you have to demonstrate to that person that you feel bad about it by being willing to sacrifice your own life. This is just politeness. On the other hand if the other person rejected your sacrifice it would mean that they don't care about your apology so they would be injuring your honor. So accepting seppuku as a form of apology is also a form of politeness.
It's a duty. Not an escape from responsibility.
As weird as it seems to you it's not immaturity. It's just an exaggerated behavior of paying respect because Asians care about respect a lot and their culture developed around that.
Easterners and westerners have different values.

>>9789972
i would happily say that taking someone's emotions so seriously that you would take your own life over it is incredibly juvenile. functionality in survival is a mature human aspect. if i emotionally damage someone, which is inevitable, and act by that juvenile system, i will not be able to sire children. and let us remember that maturity in a human can literally be ascribed to the age of fertility. in fact, when one becomes sexually active and able to reproduce, they "mature". if everyone were running about depending their whole lives on other people's emotions, they would inevitably fail, kill themselves, fail to breed, and be as useless as a juvenile, or one who has not contributed to maturity by siring children.

interestingly enough, the cultural ramifications of this juvenile culture are showing in that the men and women of your newer generations are refusing to breed as they must to retain their society. interesting how when you speak the truth as i have, it can easily be seen throughout a given issue, fractal truths.

>>9789954
It's just a semantic distinction.
The definition of Ethics I find at a quick google search is "the study of morals" or something.
The way I interpret morals vs. ethics is personal guidelines vs. collective guidelines. If you don't think that is Ethics then you are welcome to give another word for that and replace it in my above statements.

>>9789986
>men and women of your newer generations are refusing to breed
This is a natural result of modern economy. You can observe the same trend in civilized modern countries.

>>9789987
i have shown in every possible way what ethics are. it is not a matter of semantics. there is no personal and collective dichotomy between ethics and morals. one can have a personal ethical system, which is made up of moral axioms. this is the proper use of the term. end of story.
>>9789993
i disagree that it's merely economics. sure, you could look at say, england, which is supposedly having the same types of problems, but in reality, it seems that they are outsourcing immigrants to breed with. it seems that japan's juvenile xenophobia is restricting their survival.

>>9789982
If humans developed as social species that is because it gave them functional evolutionary advantage. Maybe there are certain limits to which collectivism is advantageous. In any case from evolutionary perspective you can't say a species is more or less mature, only more or less adjusted.
Asians cultures are defined by their genetics just as well as western.
You can argue if you wish that collectivism is a less advantageous survival strategy and that cultures that are defined by it are less suited for survival.
That doesn't make those people of those cultures less "mature" individually.

I've gone through all the same thoughts.
>are they just immature?
>do they just suck at writing?
>maybe they're shallow?

And then I realized that the entire country cannot possibly be all these things and that it's probably just a difference of culture and language. Japanese certainly aren't a stupid people so it doesn't make sense that there shows/movies are stupid. It's an entirely different perspective from our Western one.

>>9790007
i can tell at this point there is a substantial language barrier, and that no progress can be made despite my clear and effective arguments.i hope some day your understanding of english matures further! farewell.

Have you ever read any serious Japanese literature or films made by internationally revered directors? I feel like you are basing your assumptions on some juvenile media, even the ones made by Western people, most likely some shallow blockbusters.

>>9790006
>there is no personal and collective dichotomy between ethics and morals
OK. If you insist on that definition then it's not ethics I am talking about. I am talking specifically about the distinction between collectivism and individualism. You are free to give me a word for that that doesn't offend you so I can use it because that is what I am talking about.
>i disagree that it's merely economics.
Good. You are free to have your opinions.

>>9789971
>that is a great example of how westerners are often quite socially aware and wish to avoid a socially awkward situation.
It's a great example of how westerners put more significance in functionality rather than protocol. That is not a bad thing but it is not more socially aware either.

>>9790019
Not unreasonable to assume that anime is simply an inferior art form and cannot convey depth to the extent that the japanese culture has to offer.

>>9790012
They probably wonder the same things about Western cultures.

>why are they importing so many african people?
>are they stupid? are they naive?
>maybe they just have different values

>>9790035
>good, you are free to have your opinions
it's not just an opinion, i gave an argument to assist the statement, if you'll take a look.
>a word that doesn't offend
it's not a matter of offense, but rather a matter of words having meanings that one must adhere to, so they can use language as a tool to communicate. ethics doesn't mean that. if you mean the dichotomy between collectivism and individualism, i don't know that there is a term for that. there very well may be. i don't know. it's not ethics. that's for fuck sure.

>>9790036
It could but it most likely never will, it's only about pandering to its escapist audience.
Also there is a certain limit in visual media anyway as to how much can it explore anything philosophy related due to its length and conventions. If you want to study any culture in depth always go for books.

>>9789982
Eh you seem to be coming at this with a wholly Western, individualist way of thinking. The thing is that in Asian society no one gives a fuck about you the individual, only your achievements to the greater whole.

>western media
>little boys cutting their dicks off pretending to be girls
>heroes destroying their own societies
>man what if kami are actually evil and SCIENCE is the way
>man I'm so tortured so edgy but psssh nothing personal kid
>dude FUCK morality
>drugs are so cool

Your values are shit. Your literature is shit. Your media is shit. Your society is shit. Close the base.

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this thread is why I love /p/

I have a theory that the japanese way of thinking could be understood through a series of books, at the risk of getting exiled to /wsr/, would you please recommend me something to read?

>>9790108
*this thread is why I love /lit/

>>9790049
I did not know that British are accepting immigrants in order to breed with them? Those liberal values are also a consequence of capitalism.
Japan's birth rate is not declining because of its conservatism but because of modern economics.

If you think that Japanese are going to be destroyed as a nation due to their conservative values aren't British also going to be destroyed as a nation for the opposite reasons of those? What difference does it make?

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>>9790104
>what is Futanari
Jap obliterated.

>>9789839
>ten commendments
Basically "don't be a dick"

>>9790123
That is pornography for perverts. You're pushing trannies as NORMAL. You're brainwashing PRESCHOOLERS with that shit. The sooner the West collapses into chaos the better.

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>>9790130
ahuh

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>>9790135
This is now a degeneracy thread.

>>9790147
This is ART you pleb.

>>9790147
Green symbolizes the loss of nature.

>>9789790

>Do Japanese people have a different school of philosophy and literature than us

Utterly. Western children are taught to advance and improve themselves as much as possible, and to attain the greatest value as an individual. In this way they benefit wider society.

Japanese children are taught to sacrifice everything for their social group, and the only reason to improve yourself is to bring more benefit to your social group. Look at any Shonen, and a core moral is that the characters are always risking death to save their friends / bring glory and respect to their immediate group (or revenge for a dishonour done). By making the ultimate risk / sacrifice (death) for the benefit of those around them, they showcase the purest form of this ideal.

Lol. Why the fuck you watching anime? Go read.

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>>9790173
>Western children are taught to advance and improve themselves as much as possible, and to attain the greatest value as an individual. In this way they benefit wider society.

Do you gaijin actually believe the shit that spews out of your mouths?

>>9790209
How is it wrong?

>>9790220
Western children are taught nothing but to destroy themselves and their own society.

>>9790209
>Germany
>Western
Nope, Central European barbarians.

>>9790123
Polytheistic gods in every culture ever?

>>9790230
In theory they are not supposed to be taught that. Any particular insights on what is wrong with our educational system?

>>9790230
True. The guy you're replying to obviously hasn't taken the redpill

>>9790243
There is no education system in the West. I went to university there. What a joke that was. I talked with westerners about their experiences in schools. You have abandoned your children to wolves. Whatever system might have once existed has been thuroughly obliterated. Unless you come to Japan to see our schools I don't think I could even list all the differences to you. There is simply nothing of value left in your society.

>>9790262
Japanese education is on the other side of the crazy curve.

>>9790262
Shame on us not making our children commit suicide because of bullying and stress in school. Also shame on us for not spending our whole life "working" when most of the 12 hour spent on a job is actually only about saving face, doing nothing productive.

>>9790267
No. Japanese education is fine. We don't have kids shooting up heroin in their classes between shooting up their classes. We don't have transvestites graphically showing our children anal sex. We keep our communist teachers on short leashes like the rabid dogs they are. We don't brainwash our kids to hate Yamato or Japan. The children actually learn. The children are actually given a chance. And when they leave there is actually a society that they can join and contribute to. You offer nothing but a wasteland. I've been there. I've seen it. Your failure disgusts me.

>>9790279
I don't think the West is all that different in those respects although the reasons are different.

>>9790209

I never stated I believed it. I stated that it's the default perception of virtue taught to Western youth.

Neither perception of virtue is correct nor wrong. They are simply different.

>>9790287
There is no virtue taught to western youth. Only vice. A terrible corruption has consumed your hearts and you feed it your children.

>I made the assumption that manga and anime are for children
That's because it is.

>>9790292
Take it easy, Muhammad.

>>9790286
It is very different, I've worked at a Japanese company, it is ridiculous how much they only live for their job, regularly working 12-16hours 6days a week and actually get nothing done but they can tell themselves and their bosses that they contribute to some kind of imaginary society where people should have no personal life, only empty slaving away every day.

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>>9790292
I had average schools that taught me average curriculum and average technical school that taught me average employment-preparation skills, I've never seen the vice things you are preaching. Sure, school bullying and all that nonsense but nothing you are describing.

>>9790279
Shame on us for not throwing our children to immigrant rape gangs. Shame on us for not pumping our children full of drugs. Shame on us for not murdering our children in the womb and replacing them with foreigners who hate us. Shame on us for not dumping millions of lifetimes of tax dollars into funding the above.

>>9790292

The only reason they are vices is because you are comparing them to your own set of values. Every single community has a different set of values. None of them are correct, not yours nor theirs. There is no true virtue. Only the values which make up different perspectives on what is correct.

>>9790300
Also overtime is of course not paid, you are only doing this out of good will for your "nation", so they can also slave away their whole life while having literally no free time for anything apart from sleeping a few hours every day.
Just look up karoshi, our society is not perfect but the Japanese mentality is not better at all.

>>9790305
Yeah you just brush under the carpet every problem so nobody has to disturb the order, nobody should ever raise any issues, just make it look like everything is perfect while people of every age are suffering every day.

>>9790300
LOL sorry we cut into your valuable time browsing 4chan you lazy longnose.

>>9790320
>being this much of a wagie

>>9790300
Even though Westerners don't nearly work as much the average Westerner is still a wage slave with no significant contribution to society. They might not be as repressed but they are still pretty spiritually poor. There is only an illusion of freedom. The fact is not even Westerners are good at being individualists anymore because modern society is way too complex. It's so much easier to just follow orders.

>>9790301
High schoolchildren here don't even know what marijuana is. Meanwhile your schools need metal detectors to stop your gangs from bringing glocks to protect their crack deals. Think about that.

>>9790318
Your society is objectively inferior by every rubric and will not survive into the next century. Good riddance.

>>9790319
You're right we should start having annual parades where men shit into each other's mouths and keep syringes of Ritalin on hand to inject every child who speaks a little too loudly. Your society is circling the drain and you deserve it.

>>9790300

Yes, there's a mindset that they should live solely for the good of their nation. I'm curious what they'd think of Stirner.

Can't find the reply I want to reply to but anyone is welcome to give me a (You) for this..

So if I'm a psychopathic human being with no conscience or empathy and use people from my own selfish gains rising up to the top of the heirarchical structure only to then use my position at the top to throw crumbs at the lower classes and give back to society.. would I be considered a "moral" (or "ethical) person in your eyes.

That is the american archetype, look at ironman for example, a billionaire playboy who fucks around and does everything to his own gain only to then use the power gained by that behavior to benefit his society.. you would never find such a character as a hero in Japanese culture - that would be the antagonist, the institutionalized but strong, charismatic but flawed hero takes ironman on and shows him the way to be true and good and humble to the society at large.

Hmm

>>9790379
In moral reasoning intent is important.
It would be moral if you do it because you think it is right.
It would be ethical (although that other anon argues that there is no distinction) if you think it is right because other people think is it is right.
Note that neither being moral, nor being ethical are enough to make you a nice person.
If you do it just because you enjoy playing around it's just a hobby.

>>9790379

>would I be considered a "moral" (or "ethical) person in your eyes.

I would be inclined to say no. The theory is that you rise to the top and gain the benefits of it, it's because it's a reward for the benefit you provided to society. Of course, many don't follow the ideal. Gaining mass profit while subverting the 'helping others' part is not follow the correct path of virtue, assuming we're the ideas of western capitalism.

> ironman
Tony Stark started off as an anti hero. He was intentionally designed to be very flawed as a hero, he's popular because he breaks the mold and it ends up making him more relatable.

>>9790379

This topic probably already had at least a couple thought out replies, but anyway, I feel like I should emphasize on the one I just quoted.

The Japanese and quite some other eastern people as well, had their philosophy indeed built very differently from ours. For starters, I think I can more or less safely claim "West" people were often concerned with unity of things, or at least conflicting sets of duality that do have a middle ground inbetween. This has been around since the Greeks with dialectic, Plato's ideal, etc. Eastern philosophy on the other hand (and only insofar as I know it, but I'm even less of a scholar than for the case of western), has a LOT of focus on plurality and disparity. The earliest metaphysics I can think of, has plenty of concepts such as claiming every single object and being has a single unique soul. At the same time, our Platonic idealism somehow ended up on mass egotism and narcissism, whereas the way Nips think of disparity turned them into [quite literally] human cogs to run a great mechanism. Go figure, but that's the earliest difference I can recall anyway.

As for modernity, they still have much of that left inside I think. From working with only dozens at most of Japanese people, even the most non-traditional ones have this strong idea ingrained inside them that they should contribute their small part to something bigger. They know they're a small part of things and what pretension of growing they do have I suspect is western influence. I don't think our brand of social justice, for example, will ever catch up on them because they high key believe wealth inequality, racial superiority and "natural law" matters are just part and parcel of the disparity of life (which, to them, started simultaneously with death and not in a duality, it's the one and same thing rather than two sides of a spectrum, but don't quote me on this and take it for what you will). I think this is one of the reasons they work so much and their media appears to be so weird to us: they are always doing their best (even if they're the best at being the worst!) because they value it no matter how small their contribution is. It's not that they don't have the concept of uselessness, but who they deem useful or not is very different from us, which leads us to close the circle on Tony Stark: in spite of being a "hero", he still has much to learn and is not in the best state he could be at all, and his story by a Japanese oriented person would never end without him becoming a humble, small part of the bigger scheme of life, ever in disparity of the rest, but also combined in synch. Which might sound like New Age shit because that's usually how it sounds when a Western person tries to explain the East brand of metaphysics, me included (sorry).

>>9790305
>Shame on us for not throwing our children to immigrant rape gangs.
>Shame on us for not pumping our children full of drugs.

You're a nation of pedophiles, for who every perversion is ok as long as it's hidden behind mosaics. Kiddie orn was only outlawed recently cos you have an entire industry exploiting eastern european and poor asian girls.

Your country is still unrepentant about it's crimes during WWII especially in vidya, anime and manga. They think the US just dropped the bomb for no reason. Hell, look that recent anime movie "In this corner of the world" where the main character screams about not surrendering to the violence committed by the US but no comment is made about the shit they were doing to the surrounding asian countries.

Always amazes that weebs will always come out the woodwork to defend the nip's honor while shitting on their own country.

>inb4 country has gone to shit

You guys still shit on your own country when talking about WWII

>>9790283
>Kids shooting up heroin in class

As a recovering heroin addict, I can definitively say that it's not at all common for high-schoolers in western countries to do heroin. They certainly do drugs, but its mostlyy sit like weed, "club drugs", psychedelics, prescription medications, etc. Not crack or heroin. That's more so an inner-city/impoverished rural area thing. Of course in the last 2-3 years heroin/opiate use has reached epidemic levels and is indeed bleeding into the suburbs and upper-middle ad upper class neighborhoods, but it's still mostly young adults and up who are using it, not teenagers. My guess would be that your average highschool has only a small handful of heroin users - like literally maybe 5-10. Of course things might be different now, with the current opiate epidemic, but the numbers can't be much higher.

>>9790283
>We don't brainwash our kids to hate Yamato or Japan.

They don't need to, the rest of asia still hates japan.

>>9790318
So killing people and raping children is okay, if I believe it is, or if doing so is a social norm in my culture? Right and wrong don't exist, only social standards of acceptability and personal moral attitudes?

>>9790571
How are your exaggerated ramblings a social norm?

this dude slamming the west isn't necessarily wrong but what i hope he realizes is how utterly dependant and infatuated the japanese are to/with america. if we were in as dire a state as you think we are then dude you are going to be killed by whatever national power moves in to replace us. your women love foreign men because we actually come home from work.

>>9790571

Yes. Right and wrong are purely subjective. Your concept of right and wrong is determined by your values, which for most are based on the society you grew up in.

Take cannibal tribes eating the hearts of their enemies as sacrifice to their god, because they perceived it as just and virtuous to do so to their enemies. If those cannibal tribes were the only society on Earth, then those actions would be uncompromisingly defined as good and right.

For raping children, one could look at to the victor go the spoils. It would be unjust for the warrior who risked his life for victory to not gain suitable reward. If it is virtuous to kill the enemies of your social group, why not pleasure yourself first before doing so?

>>9790620
Can you take a step back from the brink please?

>>9790637
Accepting that people are different than you doesn't mean agreeing with them.

>>9790637

I'm not on the brink of anything. Those are not my values, I'm simply giving examples of cultures which did. If you were raised in those cultures, you too would consider those things good and virtuous. You are the circumstances of your existence.

>>9790521
Nationalism is being killed in western countries, why does this amaze you?

>>9790620
Too bad God and reason exist.

>>9790659
And if you weren't born in a degenerate culture you wouldn't be a liberal faggot.

>>9790597
The idea of America here is literally 1950s America. I was astonished when I went there. You people aren't even human anymore.

>>9790907
>Too bad God and reason exist.
pfff
Classic. I should have known.

>>9790563
Oh wow only 10 of the kids are hardcore junkies and the rest are just doing pot and party drugs what an accomplishment.

>>9790484
Pedophilia is punished by law here. But it hasn't turned into a hysterical moral panic like it is in the West where men aren't allowed out in public unless accompanied by a woman to restrain them from reaping children, but not a woman one or more years younger, since being attracted to women in their early 20s makes you a baby fucker, meanwhile Muslims are raping your children in the street and you just whistle and walk by. You westerners are insane and hypocrites and evil and stupid.

>>9790914
>Dude all cultures and values are equally valid and above judgement
>except those based on God and reason because I don't personally believe in those things

Fuck off you incoherent imbecile.

>>9790262
Stop role playing.

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>>9790947

>>9790939
I am not judging your culture. Nor have I in any way rejected the concepts of God and reason.
I am just pointing out the curious fact that people who express the opinion that they are objectively superior to others tend to justify this opinion by appealing to authority.

>>9790971
>dude the one objective truth in all of existence is that FUCK AUTHORITY

>>9790977
What exactly is your argument? I don't remember having made any claims about possessing objective truths.

>>9790930
Epic troll bro.

Does /lit/ regularly go off the rails like this?

>>9790990
You've refuted yourself.

>>9791007
Explain further.

>>9790961
Wow, you sad slanty eyed fuck.

>>9791005
I'm sorry that this truth makes you uncomfortable.

I like how people here are basing their discussions of Japanese culture and values on a chuuni visual novel composed mostly of action and fight scenes that was translated by a high-schooler who spoke English as a second language.

>>9791005
I forgot I was on /lit/ for a second, though it was /jp/ or /pol/

>>9790930
>Pedophilia is punished by law here
It was relatively recently that possession became illegal you pedophile fuck. And what about your idol industry you degenerate?

>>9789790
>Do Japanese people have a different school of philosophy and literature than us?
If by us you mean Westerners, then yes, they're East Asian and influenced by China and other Eastern idea and ideals. Further, they westernized hard in the late 1800s.

>>9791011
You have no genuine interest in hearing any new ideas because you have already dismissed them so an explanation would not profit you. Relativism is nothing but a defense mechanism, a padlock on your mind. I hope that one day the truth will set you free.

>>9791015
What truth? That you're not a nation of pedophiles?

>>9791026
No one here considers such things normal. No, reading manga is not normal. No, watching anime is not normal. These are things for children and weirdos.

>>9789790
Could've been interesting but you never criticize japanese stuff for long on 4chan.

>>9791034
How is not claiming to possess objective truths a dismissal of new ideas?
If objective truth exists what makes you think that you are the one in possession of it?

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Daily reminder that Porco Rosso is the peak of anime and its final becoming, Marco being the ultimate übermensch and Fio the ideal femme.

Anyone who disagrees is an utter pleb and beyond salvation.

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>judging the character of Japan by anime

Do you judge the character of the western sphere by spongebob?

>>9791047
>ain't normal cuz I sed so

Not an argument, sweetie

>>9791068
You've done more than that. You've claimed that no one possesses objective truth. Which is a claim to objective truth. A false one.

>>9791086
No, raping children is not normal in Japan. Thank God.

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>>9791081
>spongebob

Way to go and make yourself a retard by crticizing the most /lit/ and patrician cartoon ever conceived (first season only) in spite of anime.

Outta my board.

>>9791088
How do you determine if a truth is objective? Do you believe that there is such a thing as a subjective truth or are all truths exclusively objective?

>>9791105
second season is better

>>9791047
>No one here considers such things normal.

So why'd it take so long for kiddie por to become illegal in japan? Why do you have the idol industry?

Is this another of those cases where in Japan everyone looks away and hopes it disappears? Your country is sexually degenerate.

>>9791089
>Thank God.

You're a godless nation....and an epic troll.

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>>9790484
>>9791039
>>9791026
>>9791331
:^)

>>9791570
LOL, you think women in Japan speak out about sexual harassment and rape?

>pic only shows hentai

You have a real, flesh and blood sex industry that preys on the young.

>>9791614
>T-t-t-they just aren't speaking out
Lol. As if that would even completely explain the huge disparity
>You have a real, flesh and blood
So does the west, and it's much bigger there

>>9791639
>Lol. As if that would even completely explain the huge disparity

It would, the nips are conformist to a fault. They love not rocking the boat even if it's a detriment to themselves.

Also your country has an incredibly high conviction rate meaning either everybody gets convicted whether they are innocent or not, or they don't go after cases that aren't easy to solve and release the perp.

>The west

The west is a big place slit-eyes and I don't think many 1st world nations sell softcore porn with kids in them like your country does.

>>9791570

Do they think we have big noses?

I thought the cartoonist was one of those anti Semitic bastids until I saw the flag.

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Fuck off, you wish your shitty western writers could compare to this

this futile dickwaving. Japan is a tiny island of pedophiles that poked a hornets nest by kiilling themselves with little planes, only to be blown the fuck out to oblivion by superior minds, serious and steady. we can speak only of the fall of the west in the sense that there was a true empire spanning the world over to fall to begin with. Japan exercises no power, and its citizens are full of resentment over it. you, Nip, cannot understand that an empire is cyclical in the west. where one decays and is a symbol of depravity that once showed strong moral foundation, there will be another that surpasses in every way. The Empire is the greatest human feat, every Empire that rises is leaps and bounds ahead during its growth. Yes, there will be chaos when it falls. it is necessary. When it comes to Japs, they have no true empire, no global chunk. Wake me up when Japan exercises even the control that great britian, a fucking tiny island, exercised. I am fully willing to believe that asia may be the next seat of an empire, but until then, shut your Nip traps.

>>9791688
>All this sourceless garbage
Nice. As expected. If are conviction rates were so high, wouldn't our rape rate be much higher than our western counterparts?
>Softcore porn with kids in them
You mean the thing that is illegal to do. Which also happens in the west.

>>9791720
I think your small eyes are not capable of reading the entire post.

>>9791733
It was just baseless conjecture with no evidence so I ignored it. Sorry.

>>9790283
Your suicide rates indicate a wholly different, but just as dysfunctional, wasteland.

>>9791741
So what you're saying is you're retarded? I'm glad your nation is in decline. We'll take the good stuff when you're all dead.

>>9791075
Not even Miyazaki's best movie, pleb.

>>9791753
I don't deal with baseless conjecture. I like evidence with my arguments.

>>9791706
>I am fully willing to believe that asia may be the next seat of an empire, but until then, shut your Nip traps.

I don't think it's going to be the nips. Probably the chinks. The Mongol empire was a pretty good empire wasn't it? Nips were lucky they weren't able to set foot on their island.

>muh western depravity
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/19/world/asia/japanese-transgender-politician-is-showing-i-exist-here.html
you nip monkeys kill yourself at an alarming rate per capita, you don't bathe, you don't even have chairs, your youth are turning away from your tradition, and your executives are just as poisonous and cutthroat as any. your fall is just far more quiet because you never accomplished a god damn thing.

>>9791761
>my baseless conjecture is worth more than yours

Ok small dick.

>>9791792
>Baseless Conjecture
Nope. Every western nation has a higher rape rate than Japan. This is a fact. Sorry you can't read.

>>9791769
Yeah, china has vastly outstripped anything Japan has managed. but besides, their economic power was gained, just as japan, by our ceaseless capitalism. they became our proletariat, while the entire US became the bourgeoisie. Their entire foothold in this world, the Japs, is because of our use of them as literal slaves. They pretend they're not infected, completely, by western culture, they're fucking hilarious.

>>9791801
>my small eyes are incapable of inferring anything my government spits out for me

>>9791814
>small eyes
>lifting a weak insult from ta-nahesi coates

lol, sad!

>>9791814
>inferring
Garbage. I don't care about your subjective opinions. Why are your rape rates so high porky? Are the Japanese behind that too?

>>9791829
Our rape rates actually reflect the amount of rapes being committed, while your country uses a loan-word for the term sexual harassment.

>>9791847
>Japan's rape rates don't reflect the amount of rape being committed
Source?

>>9791851
http://www.tokyoweekender.com/2017/06/sex-crimes-japan-go-unreported/

>The definition of rape will be expanded to include oral and anal sex, while a new penalty will also be established for parents or guardians who sexually abuse children under the age of 18.

Anal rape is ok in Japan.

>>9791886
You think this proves your point. This doesn't happen enough for it to be statistically relevant. The fact of the matter is, Japan has a far lower sexual assault rate than any western country and all your flailing won't change that.

>>9790283
based Japanon destroys buttmad Westerners

>>9791902
yes, and mozambique has a smaller per capita rape rate than Japan. are you going to argue that Africans and their culture are better than you Nips? Or, would you make the argument that perhaps they have fudged the numbers? I guess Nips are a lower tier than niggers now.

>>9791936
Assuming this is true, Mozambique is better at not sexually assaulting people than Japan but worse in other aspects of life. This isn't hard to understand. Anyway, we're talking about how the west has no room to criticize Japan when they are guilty of the same thing on a much larger scale.

>>9791936
Anyway, it's clear you can only operate from emotion not logic so this will be my last response to you. Enjoy your crumbling society fatboy.

>>9791945
i disagree that we have no room to criticize. a genuine criticism, as long as its true, doesn't somehow become less true because the person expressing the criticism is being hypocritical.
besides, you're having no trouble bickering about nip superiority. in terms of rape statistics, yes, the reported japanese rate is very low, whether or not that's effected by statistical anomalies or otherwise, still doesn't preclude you from being criticized for having an overt lolita complex. i would say it's easy to point the finger towards our tv shows, like the youth pageants, and i would in the end agree that these things should be purged.
we are arguing over something we both hate about ourselves and each other. a waste of time. i will say though, that japanese entertainment has an incredibly juvenile tinge to it. as i said above, there is a difference in maturity, seriousness, whatever you want to call it. i do see the US as a falling empire, however, i do not see Japan in the equivalent status. when Japan begins to decay, genuinely begins its descent, (it will, it's inevitable), i would like to compare then the aspects of japanese society to the ones of american society.

>>9791986
I haven't participated in this conversation but I want to say, I think it was a beautiful conversation. Thank you for gracing this board with a beautiful critique of Amerifats and Westerners.

>>9791986
>my last response to you.

There were several people in that conversation slant-eyes.

>>9790124
What do you think happens in nip society?

double nip population, add 14% niggers, and give them a military capable of destroying the entire world, then get back to us.

>>9791945
>Worse in other aspects of life
The irony here is that this is exactly the problem Japan has when compared to the west. Most Japanese offices, stores, and probably houses too don't even have air conditioning, and your public bathrooms don't have soap. That mean that when someone takes a shit in a public restroom, they're walking around the rest of the day with dirty hands.

>>9791997
>Japan begins to decay, genuinely begins its descent

Well, Kpop has cannibalised Jpop.

>>9789790
>Do Japanese people have a different school of philosophy and literature than us?

A small isolated island that thought they were to superior to the rest of world till an atom bomb got shoved up their ass? No idea.

>>9790341
You are focusing in an aspect that is not really extended in all western nations nor accepted as an invariable value just to justify your own failure. Sad. But what can one expect from a bug born in a society incapable of self criticism? Even our faggots are more masculine than all your men and we are not proud of such abominations. Japan, a nation of women and eunuchs. Isn't saving apparency your second nature?

>>9790320
eastern comeback!

>>9790961
that's even worst buddy

>>9792110
torched his ass.

>>9790320
>longnose

Flatface.

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>shōnenanime.txt

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JUST

>>9792150
...he talking about Peal Harbor?

>>9792179
yep.

>>9791757
If you say spirited away I'll take you for mentally handicapped, you helpless pedestrian

anyone browsing this thread who doesnt really watch anime let me fill you in on a secret:
miyazaki is dogshit

>>9789943
O

>>9792258
MY

>>9792264
RUBBER

>>9792266
NEN

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Japan is but a gateway for West's most depraved and denigrent fantasies: before the American invasion and provisory governement (circa 1976, hand to hand with the oil crisis in the Mideast), Japan was a beautifully bucolic sequence of rural scenes and peaceful peasants going up an down its hills and rice fields and writing sudoku in bamboo sheets. Oh well, no more fun for then! They got rapes (Nanquin, circa 1927) and western devilry like forks delived at their thin paper doors... AND NUKES AS WELL (Kawasaki and Tokio, circa 45')! What such a enfeebled nation could do? Hereby I have the answer: create the most feared media of unadulterated art that goes by the name of sushi. And we, foolish white folk, now have our kids getting sushi and ending up shells of their former selves.

>>9792238
>I'm retarded

Miyazaki is one of the few producers of the medium that isn't dogshit.

>>9792277
how many layers of irony senpai

>>9789790
In porn they literally have no idea on how to kiss and in most anime romance is written by autists

What's romance like in modern japanese lit and tv/movies?

>>9791742
Would it be more acceptable if the Japanese committed suicide by blowing themselves up in public? Would you stop talking about our suicides, say #NotAllNips, and awkwardly change the subject then?

>>9792056
We carry around hand sanitizer and even out public toilets have spray bidets. Go shart in mart, pig.

>>9792110
>You are focusing in an aspect that is not really extended in all western nations nor accepted as an invariable value
You get thrown in prison for saying mean things about faggotry.

>Even our faggots are more masculine than all your men and we are not proud of such abominations. Japan, a nation of women and eunuchs
Say that to my face not online see what happens.

>>9792136
Round belly.

>>9792223
How is Porco Rosso better though? It's got the right passion behind it but it's debatably his least creative work.

>>9789790
Anime is literally made for children. If you want a decent perspective of Japanese philosophy, read a book. Would you get a decent understanding of the European cultural tradition by reading Iron Man comic books?

>>9790173
You're an idiot. A philosophy course in Japan will follow exactly a similar structure to any Western one. One of the dark aspects of Japanese philosophical and political culture is that it's entirely trapped on a Western, Westphalian centered view of modern civilization. Then again, Japan has always been a mongrel nation, culturally subservient to the outside world.

name the top ten japanese works of literature

>>9793259
hand sanitiser is useless compared to soap. soap washes germs off your skin, alive or dead it doesn't matter - they're gone. hand sanitiser just kills some germs but leaves others and their toxins on the hand.

>>9793999
Which is why you sanitize then rinse your hands. You're aware that we have sinks, yes? By the way go wash your ass.

>>9794032
>sanitise then rinse your hands
Nice waste of money. Sanitisers are a good option when you have no alternative. You shouldn't use antibacterial soap or hand sanitisers too often though, as it promotes the evolution/cultivation of resistant bacteria or "super bugs". You are literally making your hands more pozzed by overusing antibacterial liquid. Do you Nips overuse antibiotics too?

>>9794032
Why are you here nip? Thought you said it was you last comment.

>>9794642
There were several people in that conversation round-eyes.

>>9790036
Good anime exists, maybe not on the level of "depth" of an actual serious novel or film but there are certainly anime series and movies that aspire to some level of artistic achievement.

Overall, of course, most anime is commercial, but judging the medium on that basis is like saying film is worthless because the most well-known movies are Hollywood blockbusters.

>>9794671
lound-eyes

>>9794693
>akira

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>>9790108
Kokoro is the quintessential modern Japanese novel so that's where I plan on starting, but it might be useful to start with some older stuff if you want a full understanding of their culture. Just saved this chart from the chart thread, hopefully it's got enough recs to get you started.

>>9794695
Yeah Akira is good, as are GitS, Perfect Blue, Lain, NGE, some of Miyazaki's stuff, etc. I think the main thing that holds it back from being "art" is a lack of familiarity with the literary canon but I think it still manages to take on interesting topics in a serious way.

>>9794759
>Akira is good
>perfect blue, Ghibli films are also good
Correct

>NGE, GitS are good

Good God no.

Even the GitS live-action was better than the 95 movie.

>>9794704
You should stop being a subhuman EOP that reads translations.

>>9789790
anime is for children

>>9794784
Idk what that means but nobody has time to learn every language, I'd rather read something in translation than not at all.

>>9794777
What's wrong with NGE? It's just a good coming of age story with nice aesthetics and a solid foundation in mythology, I don't think there's too much to criticize.

And as for GitS, it's been a while since I saw the original but Innocence was pretty good, it was nominated for the Palme d'Or (although I wasn't sold on the animation, but at least it was appropriate for the setting).

>>9790296
What are 'regular' Nip TV and film then?

>>9794831
I don't know anything about TV but Kurosawa and Ozu are the two iconic Japanese directors.

>>9791017
Look, you know just as well as I do that you aren't going to find much good in this thread.

>>9792223
Porco Rosso and Spirited Away are respectively his best movies and seeing you two insult each other over this strikes me as ridiculous. If you cant see the depth the other has that's your loss.

>>9794848
>I don't know anything about TV

I thought as much. Japanese live action TV makes even the standardized moeshit harem series look like a godsend. Anime and vidya for the most part are the best Japan has to offer most people.

>>9790283
Let's be honest here, modernity and liberalism is destroying Japan spirituallu more rapidly than the west

>>9794919
I wouldn't call Japan "liberal", they maintain at least an appearance of respectability. The moral rot tends to hide itself in shame over there instead of being a source of pride (hence the whole otaku/hiki phenomenon).

Anime comes from a culture very much divided from Christian ideas of self sacrifice/perfection/guilt and so on

I'm not going to say that makes it beneficial, or harmful, or that all anime like this but ultimately anime deals with archetypes, illusions and abstractions of various ideals (much like Shinto Gods and spirits) as anime decends from Japanese shadow plays and theatre.
Now people with autism enjoy this because these ideals and emotions are easy to identify in the medium (Japanese theater is known for how expressive it is go get subtle things across) but this is just a side effect.
Ultimately anime is like a modern version of Greek and Roman plays which is why it does a great job in similar areas of comedy, satire and tragedy
I won't say all anime is good or bad because of this though

>>9794888
Actually his best movie by far is Mononoke and his treatment of morality in that movie is masterful. The only blemish in the film is the ending, as Miyazaki says that since mostly young people watch his films, he cannot bring himself to create a story that ends without hope.

>>9795079
>his treatment of morality in that movie is masterful.

That's exactly why I found most bland about it though. Most everyone basically gets some extremely good excuse for their actions (like Eboshi's treatment of lepers) in ways that neutralize the moral conflict and make it hard to care about. It feels like it tries try too hard to portray everything overly fairly as opposed to allowing more 'liveness' of moral drama, as you might get in an Ikuhara anime.

SA and Porco don't focus on this explicitly, and are better for it as Miyazaki is more subtle when his moral sensibility remains there, but as a background element.

>>9795079
From a moral perspective, you don't think the characters deserved a happy ending? I could see him wanting it to end badly though, after watching the documentary it's funny to contrast his actual personality with the attitude of his films.

Also I'd say The Wind Rises is his best but it's really a matter of personal taste at that point, they're both extremely well done.

>>9795137
Ambiguous morality is more truthful though, people generally aren't cartoonishly evil, or if they are there's some reason for it. I can see how that would diminish the movie's effect as a myth/fable though.

>>9789864
Underrated

>>9795143
>Ambiguous morality is more truthful though

You don't seem to understand why I'm arguing in favor of. I'm not at all advocating for a more simplistic or cartoonist morality, rather, this is in opposition to even more complex kind of morality. I simply consider the portrayals in Mononoke to absolve the moral issues too conveniently and in a way that makes it hard to care about what each character values or what happens to them and so I consider it a weaker film than other Ghibli works the achieve what they set out to better. It specifically sets out to be morally relativistic in ways I just don't think are all that interesting compared to other specific anime.

SA's Yubaba is actually closer to the kind of character portrayal that I'm speaking of. Rather, she is never excused for being the horrible person she is, but her badness is shown realistically and she gets to be a 'full bodied' character naturally capable of love and kindness, like a mafia boss; she's a huge bitch, and the people she deals with come to accept that. I'm not saying that all villain characters have to be written in such a way or that this is an ideal example, but I feel that Spirited Away's writing is superior and handles its moral agendas with more tact because it isn't trying to be so ethically distant.

>>9790961
Kek faggot ordered Japanese butt wipes from the internetz to larp harder

>>9795180
Well, I don't remember the movie very well but the impression that I got was that Eboshi wasn't necessarily meant to be an "evil" character, just a tough but fair leader driven by profit and a desire to secure a decent life for herself and her people. Her motives and understanding of the situation happened to be at odds with those of San and Ashitaka. That's what made it interesting for me, the fact that many different factions and perspectives existed, all with their own competing motives.

There's nothing distant about that, other than the fact that there isn't time to show the full story of every character. It's just an epic story that has to be shown with a wide lens. If that's less interesting to you than a more focused approach though, I can understand that.

>>9789790
>Do Japanese people have a different school of philosophy and literature than us?
Yes.
It is a different culture with a different history, why would you assume otherwise?

>>9795224
>but the impression that I got was that Eboshi wasn't necessarily meant to be an "evil" character

Once again, I'm not claiming that she was supposed to be 'evil', but rather that most of the conflict ends up boiling down to various sides fighting over who should be able to make use of natural resources. The conflict is based on circumstance instead of being a more fleshed out and personal drama, and while this isn't inherently inferior, I don't feel that it is enough to carry the film make it a masterpiece and there are other anime which do the whole "different perspectives existed, all with their own competing motives" thing in more creative ways.

>>9795137
>(like Eboshi's treatment of lepers) in ways that neutralize the moral conflict and make it hard to care about. It feels like it tries try too hard to portray everything overly fairly

You missed the point of her character, the way she treats lepers is not arbitrary at all and not there as a "get out of jail-card" for her evil deeds - the entire point of her character is that she is the only "modern" person in the movie: she doesn't believe in superstition (and lepers were thought cursed), does not respect tradition nor any gods. Because of this, she can at the same time let the women work in the bellows and in general be equal to men (unlike everywhere else at the time), bandage the wounds of the lepers (because she's affronted that nobody is helping them), and mercilessly wage war against gods (she values her people's needs above theirs). All her motivations stem from this. In a way she is the most clear-eyed character in the movie, and does nothing randomly.

>>9795143
>From a moral perspective, you don't think the characters deserved a happy ending?

It's not about what they "deserve". Sometimes it happens that mutually incompatible interests clash in such a way that there is no solution or a way out and I think that would have made the movie more poignant and brought its point across better.

>>9790333
your highschools are covered in zombies and innapropiately dressed girls with katanas

>>9795268
Well yes but it's a story about nature, which is ultimately a conflict over resources, determined by circumstance. The animals are ultimately no better than the humans, they just have less power. The personal drama comes in as a result of characters whose circumstances cause them to have divided loyalties, which then brings about peace. The universal human/animal conflict is reflected in the personal story of crossing paths, one character entering the world of the humans from that of the animals and vice versa, and then the supernatural element brings resolution by bridging the gap and returning things to harmony. I think it's a fairly well-executed mix of large and small-scale stories.

>>9794919
Japan is not liberal. Or modern.

>>9789790
That bushido codes of honor thing came out after the japanese stopped being samurais right?

Good thread.

>>9795657
So you can be technologically advanced without being modern? Interesting...

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0102587/
HANDS DOWN THE BEST GHIBLI FILM

BUMP

>>9797674
Japan has kinda fallen behind on tech.

>>9789790
>Do Japanese people have a different school of philosophy and literature than us?

omg do people from another culture have a different culture than us??????

>>9790456
underrated post

>>9790456
>his story by a Japanese oriented person would never end without him becoming a humble, small part of the bigger scheme of life

Didn't they do a japanese iron man cartoon in 00s? How did that go?

>>9789790
>Do Japanese people have
Japan is an occupied country

They are being reformed into something more pliable to western exploitation

All of their media is geared toward this, and the most heavy-handed strokes fall on the children (anime)

The reason retards like you watch anime is because it makes Japanese culture accessible to you through western cliches just like it makes western cliches accessible to Japanese children through Japanese sentiment. But you're unable to distinguish between the western cliches and the Japanese culture, its just one ball of color and noise to you.

If you really loved Japanese culture you wouldn't go anywhere near anime. The occupied state censors everything. If an established creator tries to go off the rails, they simply put the work down.
This is even mentioned in that Miyazaki documentary

Anime is the most poisonous garbage ever created for 'entertainment'

>>9792110
he was right, you know

you're really stupid, no joke.

everything you say is subjective based on your emotions

>full stop Sad full stop
get the fuck out of here, you talk like an algorithm

>>9790319
>you just brush under the carpet every problem so nobody has to disturb the order
are you really this unaware?
how is that different from the west at all?
all of people's real problems are deprioritized in lieu of what the media tells them is important

>>9790521
>tunnelvisioned on insignificant aspects of culture
>picking aspects with the most western military force driving them into the population
basically this thread in a nutshell

>>9790333
not sure if b8 or actually a nip, but your society won't survive another century either, because you know...no one is having babies?

>>9790930
age of consent
13

>>9799988
LoGH must have gone under the radar.

>>9800670
You mean a novel adaption sold in OVAs?