Why hasn't Africa produced anything of literary value that

>>9772742
Cortazar once mentioned that Africa has a great oral tradition. I really like to read their stories. Any recommendation?

You gentrified black people

>he hasn't read Tutuola

>>9772742
They did not have writing until a century ago. Why do you think, and in the century they did, they were traumatized by the people who gave it to them.

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>>9772742
>another one of these threads

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>/lit/'s favorite new meme is a jungian depth psychologist
>implying african mask mythology isn't jungian to the 28th degree
>implying that there could be anything more objectively counter-postmodern or otherwise jaw-droopingly interesting than literally placing the face of a god over your own and seeing through the eye-holes
>implying that based greek tragedy or based commedia dell'arte is anything but masks on display
>why hasn't africa produced anything of value?
>tfw

>>9772742
>Why hasn't Africa produced anything of literary value
Took me two whole minutes
>https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timbuktu_Manuscripts
>https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/African_Writers_Series
>that goes beyond either
>muh racism
>muh black identity
African literature rarely ever contains racial themes, that's an American thing, so now you're double-stupid.
I don't know why I even bother with this shit, you fucks don't read, let alone actually care about people in a way that doesn't benefit you directly

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>>9772792
i mean it's almost like we would like to be able to put masks over our eyes today and experience what it would be like to be a deathless god of destruction and re-live that experience or something

man too bad that isn't an option
i have a feeling something like that would be popular

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>>9772838
or that a cool gentleman-scholar such as leo frobenius was so floored by african art that he essentially thought it was from atlantis
>nope, it's just based yoruban culture, which was unironically redpilled af:

>most of the city states were controlled by Obas (or royal sovereigns with various individual titles) and councils made up of Oloyes, recognised leaders of royal, noble and, often, even common descent, who joined them in ruling over the kingdoms through a series of guilds and cults. different states saw differing ratios of power between the kingships and the chiefs' councils. Some, such as Oyo, had powerful, autocratic monarchs with almost total control

the problem with wanting to be redpilled is trying real hard to stay in a mode of hating on that which is much more interesting than you might originally have suspected

africa's pretty cool

>>9772873
Browsing /his/ is what got me into African history. It was by far the most interesting thread in their catalog, there's a lot of dudes over there with some amazing photographs and info. You can't start a thread without it being trolled but it's still good

>>9772742
It's too hot there to think, let alone write something.

>>9772742
I'm curious, how much African literature have you read? Be honest, please.

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>>9772873
He was right, this is magnificent.

>>9772947
WOW
I wish I'd come up with this amazing creation!!!/s Why are Africans so displeasing to the eye?

>>9772970
Can you imagine being so blind and corrupted by internet culture?

>>9772934
More than you pleb and it SUCKS

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>>9772947
it's pretty good. step up from >>9772792
>it's no discobolus ofc but hey that was later
>stay on target girardfag stay on target
>ok

this makes me want to re-open durant and nerd out on the history of sculpture. history of art y u so awesome

>>9772742
you had this thread the other day and it achieved nothing

jerk your confirmation bias on /pol/

>>9772993
None of these threads achieve anything you fucking idiot. Where do you think you are?

Not a fan myself but Albert Camus is a popular African writer who doesn't write about black identity.

On the contrary, African literature and art is the highest forms of art ever produced, and everyone else has settled for abstractions and corruptions of this model, dressing the emperor in his new clothes.

>>9772757
Why couldn't they figure out writing themselves?

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>tfw you wonder if the history of aesthetics is the history of civilization

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>>9773010
here's your (you)

>>9772757
Blame game
>>9772792
>literary
The masks are very cool but the thing about commedia is that we have a long written tradition of changes to the characters and plots and it's actually seeing how Arlecchino changed and trying to figure out the psychological motivations behind those changes than it is simply looking at the features of the masks.
>>9772873
His disbelief was rooted in the conditions he saw around him.
>>9772830
Decent post but most of this will be attributed to an Islamic element.

>>9773010
Are you lost?

Things Fall Apart is a great novel that goes beyond those two topics.

>>9773033
You are just being racist now. We don't want you people here

>>9773000
such a crutch

OP didn't get the redpill racist answers he wanted so he wasn't satisfied

>>9773021

The history of civilizational advancement is the history of people organizing in larger and more dangerous groups to oppose existential threats. Whether that threat was winter, lions or the neighbors' army. The things in Europe and Asia which thrust together groups of people to form what eventually became states never happened in Africa because there was no need.

Humans evolved in Africa. It's the only part of the world where the animals know what we are. They're not confused by us, they know exactly how dangerous we are. Our bodies are designed for that place, the natives don't need jackets, or boots, or even houses.

Why fight when there's enough food and altogether too much land? Why have a standing army when you won't do more than ritualistically skirmish with neighbors? Why have walls when there are no wars? Why concentrate dwellings into a city when there are no walls you need to be inside of?

Negative pressures produce positive results, and Africa was too comfortable and too big to compete with tiny Europe. Europe reached a critical mass of people and states crammed into tiny borders, all straining to destroy each other, locked in a rat-fight whose only outcomes were advancement or destruction.


"After all it's not that awful. You know what the fellow said – in Italy, for thirty years under the Borgias, they had warfare, terror, murder and bloodshed, but they produced Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci and the Renaissance. In Switzerland, they had brotherly love, they had five hundred years of democracy and peace – and what did that produce? The cuckoo clock. "

>>9773033
>Decent post but most of this will be attributed to an Islamic element.
True, but to be fair most European artistic and scientific achievement is attributed to a Catholic element

>>9773075
Don't worry buddy I got exactly what I wanted right from you. Thanks ;)

>>9773094

>>9773086

the world of difference between /pol/ and /lit/

>>9773059
how the fuck is he being racist

>>9773109
Have you ever heard of Occam's razor?

>>9773125
Ah, yes. In this case the simple, and correct answer being that you're a simpleton that jerks it to BLACKED because of your repressed emotions over mommy? Am I using that right?

>>9773109
what, tautological bloat?

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>>9772873
it's so weird when leftists try to use right wing jargon.

>>9773086
All of that falls apart when scientists discovered that people actually came out of Europe not Africa. Do some research kiddo.

>>9773167
I'm not some lefty, and I'll admit that academia is heavily biased towards the left

but the rightwing tendency to gobble up kooky, bad science as gospel is embarrassing

>>9773086
It also strikes me as intellectually dishonest when you give a quote that's trying to discredit the Swiss people by identifying one invention of theirs and ignoring the countless others. I don't expect anything less from a leftist pseud tho.

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>>9773165
objectively true

>tfw gnostic-accelerationist sinophile w/mad guilt issues
>ffs man get your shit together
>i'm trying i'm trying

>>9772970
>Why are Africans so displeasing to the eye?
Inbreeding. Europeans (a.k.a. "Whites" to you burgerclaps) are the most genetically diverse and ancient group of humans.

>>9773175
>http://www.newsweek.com/first-hominin-europe-east-africa-human-evolution-613494
Too lazy to google it yourself I assume, Tyrone?

>>9773167
Literally WE WUZ.

>>9773220
> "newsweek.com"
I'll call you back when I need urgent updates on the Brad & Angelina question of our times. Till then, have a nice day.

>>9773220
It's a pre-hominid, retard.

>>9773220
>Too lazy to google it yourself I assume, Tyrone?
>smug and racist
>could not even read the first line of the article he linked

God, this is embarassing.

>>9773263
>you can teach to Congolese kids fucking Calculus but /pol/tards will still believe that they are as smart as gorillas

>>9773086
>Humans evolved in Africa.
>>9773261
>>9773254

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>>9773220
>one fossil, even if it was a human fossil, some how discounts all other evidence
top lel, this is your brain on ideology

>>9773263
Right, but the question is why did China fail to subjugate the rest of the world with their superior IQ? Clearly, conflict and scarcity help humans on a civilizational level.

>>9773275
> le 'all other evidence' meme
Are you an archaeologist by any chance? Or are you just channeling third-hand memes and thinking that makes you somehow patrician?

>>9773275
>>9773261
>>9773254
Nice samefag btw.
>http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0177127
>https://phys.org/news/2017-05-humans-evolve-europe-africa-dont.html

>>9773274
It's not a human, It's an ancestor dated 7.2m years. I may as well discredit your claim by saying that we came from the sea. It would be right, but it would bear no useful information.

>>9773263
>tribal hunter-gatherers without emphasis on written language, and thus the subsequent possibility it offers for math and strictly logical thinking, do poorly on tests made stressing exactly such questions
durr

>>9773278
Because China has a combination of cheating problems, the poor unable to take tests, etc.

>>9773298
>>tribal hunter-gatherers without emphasis on written language, and thus the subsequent possibility it offers for math and strictly logical thinking, do poorly on tests made stressing exactly such questions
Or, put more succinctly without losing meaning:
> niggers have low IQ

>>9772947
holy... i want more

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>>9773315
(you) 1+

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>>9773024
Are you the tripfag that equate fascism with aesthetics
Because I want to hear more about it.
Franco was /fa/ as fuck

>>9773293
Read the fucking articles, you worthless mongoloid.

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>>9773348
i am indeed. it's not my idea tho. the guy you want to read is walter benjamin

>All efforts to render politics aesthetic culminate in one thing: war. War and war only can set a goal for mass movements on the largest scale while respecting the traditional property system. This is the political formula for the situation. The technological formula may be stated as follows: Only war makes it possible to mobilize all of today’s technical resources while maintaining the property system

>see also adorno
>see also *marinetti* b/c you want a balanced perspective
>D&G of course
>see also many others

but benjamin's not a bad place to start

https://www.marxists.org/reference/subject/philosophy/works/ge/benjamin.htm

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>>9773348
srsly tho i'm starting to wonder if instead of lamenting Feels > Reals if it doesn't make more sense to think seriously about what a consistently autopoetic & trans-cultural planetary desire for increasing beauty & form & virtuality unfolding through the centuries suggests

ode to a terran urn

>dat wabi-sabi evanescence tho
>tfw sometimes you want to weeb so hard

>>9773167
>>9773207
>>9773220

bad trolling.

If not, you are a moron, and cannot even read a shitty newsweek article and understand it.

The claims of a "European origin" are not even saying that modern humans first appeared in Europe (which is generally what the colloquial term "human origin" refers to), but are saying it is a possibility (and only a possibility) that we split from the Pan genus in Europe.

This split would have led to several lineages, of which modern humans are the only extant one. It is also far from a consensus that this is the case, and even if it ends up being "true", would leave an implication that the lineages which stayed in Europe are the ones that died out, while humans and our ancestors flourished in Africa.

The way the right tries to engage with anthropology, archaeology, and human evolutionary biology is the definition of pseudoscience and doesn't belong on this board, or anywhere aside from a /pol/ echo chamber.

>>9772742
>I am genuinely curious since supposedly the first homo sapiens evolved there around 200,000 years ago so they appear to have had quite the head-start.

All of the proto-human monkeymen who were smart enough to realize that Africa was a shithole, and weren't too lazy to just stay there anyway, left 100,000 years ago

>>9773116

He's spreading hate-facts. If you don't gaze upon a crudely hacked slate of banana wood (which, by the way, is so primitive that a western depiction of an African wearing this artistic masterpiece is considered a repulsively racist affair) then you are a filthy racist. The emperor's new clothes is petulently insisting that beautiful art is more "valuable" than art which a domesticated chimpanzee might have created over a three day weekend by accident. However, feigning a sense of wonder at these crudities is most assuredly *not* an example of the emperor's new clothes effect. If you dispute anything I have just written, then you are a white supremacist fyi

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>>9773348
ultimately tho for aesthetics it's all about this guy

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>>9773348
He was a manlet bald my boy.

>>9773464
The statue that anon posted is masterfully crafted. Regardless, why are you now equating contemporary music with ancient African art? Can't you see your bias?

>>9773390
>The way the right tries to engage with anthropology, archaeology, and human evolutionary biology is the definition of pseudoscience and doesn't belong on this board, or anywhere aside from a /pol/ echo chamber.

However, insisting that anthropology, archaeology, and human evolutionary biology are irrelevant social constructs, as you leftist types do, is wholly suited to a literature board.

>>9773497
Nice usage of stereotypes. What a virtuoso.

>>9773513
Not an argument.

>>9773482

I didn't mention music, but it's very interesting that this is where your mind went when reading that sentence about the chimpanzee. I meant to imply that our intrepid chimp could have hacked at a split log with a machete and then smeared some form of pigmentation upon it in random patterns and the result would not look terribly out of place among these: >>9772792

I did so because the mental gymnastics and contortions of that poster were cringe-inducing. No, you cannot apply junior-year close reading skills to "interpret" reams of meaning from the lowest denominator of human cultural achievement, as you would a toilet bowl nailed to a wall.

That said, I would actually prefer if Africans attempted to go their own way in the world, and if embracing and building upon the little history they have available is a means to do so, then more power to them. But condescending to suggest that these chunks are equivalent to Grecian marble is as pointless as it is insipid.

>>9773513
>The way the right tries to engage with anthropology, archaeology, and human evolutionary biology

If that is not a stereotype, it is at least a generalization born of ignorance. I think a counter generalization born of tired familiarity is a justified response.

>>9773464
madness

>>9773533
I meant contemporary art (I was posting on /classical/ 2 minutes before that post).
Also I was talking sbout this sculpture: >>9772947

>>9773533
Yeah, I do feel like there's no middle ground in these cultural wars around race. We should acknowledge the hard truths about race and genetics, and try and move forward from there. Yes, Africa lacks a written historical record outside of colonial accounts, and their culture is much poorer for it. The lefties plug their ears and act like it's not true, and it's an embarrassment to everyone involved.

But /pol/ loves to act as if facts are on their side, and they're above "feels" and deal only with reality. Yet whenever you suggest that, say, broad historical and anthropological factors led to the world we see, they start freaking out because you just *seem* like a leftist, then they chimp out and start calling everyone nigger and dindu.

I can't stand that the potential for clarity of conversation around race is always wasted by people who pretend they want that, when really they have a pathalogical hatred/fear of non-whites. You don't have to acknowledge the leftist fantasy of total equality, but when all you say is a variation of calling blacks gorillas, you have to admit you have no interest in thinking critically about anything. You're just invested in feeling superior as a white.

>>9773292
>weighing evidence is a meme
what the fuck is wrong with you dude

>>9773292
Are you an anthropologist? I don't think anyone here is saying there's literally no way that you're right about humans descending from Europe. I just don't think any of us agree with you that the preponderance of evidence exists to make that claim yet. Right now, if you asked an Anthropologist, I'm positive they'd name Africa as the cradle. And I don't even see how this is an idealogical issue?

If you're /pol/ then you think, well tough environments made whites culturally stronger and smarter. If you're a libshit then you think, well, we're ALL Africans, and thus equal.

And if you're not retarded, you think, ah, I'll use this knowledge to gain a better understanding of the world around me.

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>G*rmans and Am*ricans complaining about Africa's lack of culture

Oh, if they only knew,

>>9773002
Pied noir, more french than african

Memes aside, it's literally because what good literature is has been defined by rich, bearded white men a while ago.
It's really just that.

>>9773650
I feel this argument can be made only by Frenchies, Italians and Greeks, and to a minor extent Anglos and Spaniards, at least in Europe. When it comes to other nations, it beckmes comical.

>>9773719
Which argument, the historical record?

It varies by where you are in Africa, but there's still more written record of a pan-European identity than a pan-sub Saharan African one.

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>>9773528
neither was your stupid stereotype

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>>9773497
I'm not left or right, asshole. I'm just someone who actually knows anything about this topic and gets annoyed by the attempts, made by people on either side of the American political spectrum, to enter into a conversation they have no ability to even consider.

>reading the actual research
>interpreting the findings in light of established data
> "insisting that anth, archy, and HEB are irrelevant social constructs"

hmmmm.....I don't follow your logic there anon. Unless you just wanted to say "THE LEFT DOES IT TOO" which I agree with but is beside the point.

I used "the right" to mean the /pol/, r/theredpill internet-scholar morons which frequent 4chan. You seem to fit that bill to me. And I am fine with making generalizations about that group.

>>9773800
BASED
A
S
E
D

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>africa is a country

>>9773533
well baited/10

>>9773970
Are you a literal child? He didn't;t say or imply it was a country you dumb fuck

>>9773979
I meant to quote the op

>>9772742
>>muh racism
>>muh black identity
Are you implying that western literature isn't mostly
>muh western identity
>muh religious heritage

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>>9772742
The issue isn't the literature that comes out of Africa, but rather the attitude of the world towards Africa. Take for example Things fall Apart, a good book about a fundamentally flawed man and his almost fascistic view of Culture, but no one can enjoy Okonkwo's interesting story because the people teaching about the book in modern western schools can't stop bitching about the evils of Colonialism.