Would people still think he was such a good writer if he took

Not a native english speaker here, how hard is it to read Gravity's Rainbow in english?

>>9759789
difficult only in the most superficial ways: references, complexity of plot, and willingful obscurity, completely unrelated to depth of artistry

>>9759783
>Would people still think he was such a good writer if
Yes

>>9759783
>make them seem like they were saying more than they actually were
Most of the obscure parts in Pynchon novels do actually have a meaning, you only have to pay attention and maybe read it two times

>>9759783
He is very verbal and knowledgeable but I sincerely don't think he is a good writer.

>>9759783
Imagine being the kind of person who reads postmodern fiction and thinks the references to science and culture are just about the author showing off

Bleak

Look OP, I don't know why you're so angry about this, but this is clearly about something other than Pynch. What's really going on here?

>>9760130
>>9760169
the point is that the way in which he uses these references, no matter the justification he has behind it, makes for mediocre art, and yet brainlets like you are duped into thinking it's good because it's complex. Take for example Infinite Jest. Wallace purported to have justification for every complication in the novel, that everything that was difficult in the novel was in service of something, and yet this does not always make it so that the art itself is good. And yet, idiots like you think that it makes art good because of its ability to resolve complexity. No, that just shows that the author is smart, not that the art is good. Infinite Jest, although it is well-thought out and constructed, thematically sound and complex, it is for the most part, terribly written, an immature and shallow work. Pynchon is just another case of this. Of course, not all complexity is bad. The complexity of Ulysses is often "unnecessary," so to speak, and may even be less justified, thematically, than Pynchon's, in some cases, but the fact remains that the work is an incredible work of art in its ability to mirror consciousness, and much else besides that. One can search forever in analyzing the aesthetic depths of Ulysses, and can not same the same for Pynchon.

>>9760173
My mom passed away recently

>>9759783
so ididn't read any of this but doesn't pynchon look like he speaks in goofy's voice

ahyuck

>>9760564
Sorry to hear that.
But on the topic at hand, I think it didn't really appreciate IJ until I listened a lot more to DFW's reasons for writing it. Overall, the issue seems to be that this is the strain of post modern lit, that it was novel when it began (Ulysses) and has grown to be so common it's sickening.
A great example is that DFW apparently would fail kids when he was a professor , when they tried to write "clever" stories. Probably for the reasons you listedit was annoying and that most people aren't really all that clever and stories like that just end up being the author stating how smart they are.

All those references are like colorful sprinkles on a Pynchon Ice Cream Sunday.

>>9759783
Why did Pynchon look like an absolute mongoloid? He looks like a caricature of a redneck caveman

>>9760564
> Pynchon is another case of DFW

No, DFW is a terrible reader of Pynchon and a prime of example of people who read Pynchon and don't get him

sage

>>9760564
References and scientific references are such a minor part of pynchon that focusing on them like that makes it sound like you're only resenting their going over your head, as if they were attempts at pulling a fast one over the tasteful, effortlessly capable and discerning reader you think you are. Pynchon isn't DFW. He didn't cram all that stuff in his books just to make himself look smart. It only even stands out at all when you come from a narrow and otherwise uneducated humanities perspective. He worked in engineering and wrote with what he knew, used these concepts because he was interested in them, and then always went to the trouble of explaining them in the few cases when they were necessary to one's understanding of the corresponding metaphors and of the narration they were part of. The one aspect of his writing which can be said to be seeking deliberate complexity, and which is appreciated for it, is the prose. The rest of it, the maximalism, that's research, background detailing.

>>9761287
seeing that you have such fucking poor reading comprehension just reinforces my point that all Pynchon fans are pseuds. I'm currently working on my Phd in Math, by the way, so no, the references did not go over my head.

>>9761601
yet the simple point went over your head that you sound like one of these morons guffawing at how preTENtious an actually simple book is for using what they think are big words from the dictionary

>>9761287
He studied engineering for two years, and calculus fucked his shit up so hard he left for the Navy and when he came back switched to English.

>>9761601
It's already been explained to you why we think Pynchon books and his style are actually good, if you really want to play the part of the insulting illuminated patrician, go on. I think that Pynchon's complexity is highly justified by the sheer beauty that you can sometime find in his books. Plus, I'm generally interested in things labeled as "complex" or "multi-layered". If you don't want to debate, just fuck off

>>9761601
>asian memorizer man thinks his literary opinions have any weight

take it to mathoverflow nerd

>>9759783
>and "whoa so scientific" equations

integral of 1 / cabin d (cabin)

= log cabin + C

= houseboat


whoah, scientific all righty.

>>9759783
So let me get this straight. You tried to read GR but it was too difficult so you came to lit to complain about it?

>>9759783
Have you actually read one of his books?

>>9760564
>my mom passed away recently
Should've replied senpai

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Yeah, it's endless reference-spotting and half-baked essay fodder, taken a safe distance away from anything remotely human. Some people like that though.

>>9763415
Why is it all of you plebs cry references when readers who do appreciate Pynchon actually ignore them? Is it literally autism?

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>>9760564
> Infinite Jest, although it is well-thought out and constructed, thematically sound and complex

>>9760102
Why would depth of artistry make a book difficult to read?