who here /fell for the STEM meme/? >tfw too late to switch

>>9728762
there is so much life after college it is ridiculous
just make a program and stick to it once you get out, and you will be fine

>>9728762
Got an engineering degree. Living a comfortable, employed life. I have the money to travel to the places I want to, and my wife is also an engineer. Highly recommend it.

I spend my evenings, weekends, and some time at work reading great books. I can appreciate art, and I have the time and resources to dedicate toward analyzing and deconstructing what I read. Win/win homie

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>>9728762
Fell for it hard. Back in school I thought I was above those tards who shilled hard for their own mental masturbation majors. I'm thoroughly displeased with the profession and only now I've begun to realize how much I still believed in that garbage people feed to inflate engineers' egos

>>9728762
Me bro

>tfw doing comp-science
>have only a fleeting interest in it
>real passion is literature

Goddamn I know I'm making the right decision job wise, but fuuuuuuuccckkk

>>9728847
I recommend you finish it out. If you decide after a year of making 70k+ that you want to follow your passion for literature, you can do that while still having a fall back for employment and a comfortable lifestyle.

>>9728845
Jesus man, its a JOB. It doesnt define you. Its a means to an end. If you have the common sense to realize you're not special, you can avoid the inflated ego of the typical engineer. Get paid, and do what you want in your spare time with your money.

>>9728868
Not the guy you responded to, but thanks I needed to hear this

>>9728762
fell for it
should drop out

wanna die

Kafka worked full time in business while writing. So did Wallace Stevens and many others. Also, many writers didn't study literature in college.
>>9728868
This.

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>>9728868
>Jesus man, its a JOB. It doesnt define you. Its a means to an end. If you have the common sense to realize you're not special, you can avoid the inflated ego of the typical engineer. Get paid, and do what you want in your spare time with your money.

I told myself that too back then, but now I realize that I still had some of those thoughts buried deep inside my head. People have occasionally asked me how something works, and told me that I can do a lot because I'm an engineer, and that kind of stuff. You might start believing some of it without realizing that you might be accepting a stereotype.

>>9728762
Fell for it too.
It's OK. At least I'm pretty good at it.

>>9728762
Actually, you are lucky because now you wont have the same complex as liberal arts majors. Read some Tesla to get hyped about engineering and science

>>9728816
fellow chem-e fag here
can relate to this.
except the wife part, i'd never marry a STEM women.

Lol unread like wtf just open a book and read lmao

I've always wondered if the people that make theses threads are the same as the people who whine nobody read their queer reading of Oliver Twist paper

who here fell for the dont study at all, party and cheat through college? i got a good job out of it, but absolutely zero education - academically at least.
i tell myself that it was a social education that cant be got anywhere else, and at least i can do a half-assed job of educating myself

>>9728948
it follows that kant was a retard

>tfw brainlet at math so STEM is impossible for me
>tfw I'll probably never have a comfy job and instead will struggle with bills and not being fired for the rest of my life

I honestly just want to end it.

If you're not good at math you should honestly just be euthanized, not because you're considered inferior, but because it is cruel to live in this world with literally ZERO job security and no chance of progressing.

I hate myself and I hate my stupid brainlet brain.

I am a subhuman.

>>9728762
Honestly most arts students won't come out with better tools

I you are genuinely passionate you will have plenty of time to develop your critical analysis skills, if anything without some prof-nigga infecting your thoughts

Also people who go grad study such a specific topic, theme, author, style etc. that if you want to be like them you can just pick the one that interest you the most and write about it

Don't be a dumb cunt, it's not like undergrad means anything, and after that it's mainly about dedication.

If you're genuinely interested and interesting you'll also find plenty of people willing to read your essays and give their thoughts, hell even a good uni prof will be willing to do it even if you're not a student and you come off as genuinely passionate

chin up cunt

>>9729078
Math skill is 45% motivation, 45% familiarity, 10% genius. Most math whiz people are extremely familiar with math BECAUSE they had an initial motivation to pursue it in childhood. It made sense to them from the get-go. Maybe it was beautiful to them because of some incidental associations, or they were unremarkably but innately at certain aspects of it, and they liked getting good grades. Whatever it was, familiarity came easy, because practice and progress came easy. They became familiar with it without even noticing, and familiarity then entwined with the initial motivation, and the finally two mutually reinforced one another, until they were self-sustaining, and the kid was a Math Kid.

The thing is, the initial motivation in the vast majority of cases is not genius. It's not some Leibnizian attunement to the harmony of the spheres. Most of the time, it's actually surprisingly shallow minds that are interested in math. For example, people who like extremely regular logic puzzles, but who almost never ask deeper "why?" questions about the underlying possibility of the logic. Someone gave them a tool, and it tangibly works (at least in some sense), and it feels good when it works. But they don't ask "Why does it work? What IS it? What does it mean for something to 'work'?"

The vast majority of people who do math for a living are like this. It's a lot more like being a really good guitar player than being a genius: You start early, you have something that keeps you motivated (a knack for memorising tabs until you gained real skill, or a naive desire to be a rockstar), and as your muscle memory makes you better, you can do more impressive things, and that's fun, so you're motivated, and you get better, etc. By the time you hit adulthood, you may be really good at the guitar and you may be able to make a living off of it, but 99 times out of 100 you'll still be a total fucking pleb. Shit, math is more like being a good COOK than it is like being a philosopher.

tldr: Most math people are average retards with a handy skill, not geniuses. In fact, math attracts a higher degree of shallow thinkers, as people who are inclined to ask deeper questions will become unsatisfied with it and lose that initial motivation required to become good at math.

>>9729098
I don't fully agree with this, being a proper mathematician is very different

Apart from that it is all true, the amount of math required to do most of STEM is really just practice and familiarity, and will mostly just be calculus, induction and stats, that you can just learn from practice

>>9728762
I did. I wish I knew ahead of time that STEM programs attract the biggest philistines. A lot of my classmates were only semi-literate. Their intelligence is incredibly narrow. Talk to them about anything outside of video games and their respective majors and they're bumbling idiots. You have these pop-science figures telling the public that science teaches critical thinking, but they're full of shit. It teaches you how to reduce complex issues into simple issues that fit neatly into theories, unsullied by the pesky details the rest of us still foolishly consider. And, far from teaching you to be skeptical, it teaches you to be certain you're right. STEM programs should start making philosophy courses compulsory.

>>9729078
>job security
Well, in my country there is this teacher institution, so you just enroll there, graduate and start teaching secondary education. If you don't care much for luxury it's enough to live comfortably, and your education is just as good as a uni undergrad plus some pedagogy subjects (but the guys graduating from uni can't teach, kek).After a semester of procrastination and all around being miserable in a CompSci major, I'm thinking of going for Literature. What I mean is, anon, I don't know where you're from, but things aren't as hopeless as you think.

>>9729143
The majority of people are like this though, you just need to find more interesting people to hang around, or have a multi-disciplinary friend group/circlejerk group

Trust me, most people studying Lit at undergrad aren't even that interested in lit

>>9728938
Same here.

got a job

it doesn't get better

>>9728816
what type of engineer

>>9729138
>Apart from that it is all true, the amount of math required to do most of STEM is really just practice and familiarity, and will mostly just be calculus, induction and stats, that you can just learn from practice

can confirm. I studied math an d work with engineers. they are literally retards. I told some coworkers about the Goldbach conjecture and they could not understand it.

>>9728868
The thing that you spend the majority of your written time doing doesn't define you?

>>9728762
>tfw I studied humanities
>tfw it is now my job to read books and prepare events on national history
Feels breddy gud

>>9728868
>It doesnt define you.
It literally does you stupid stemfag

>>9728762

> STEM meme

Son, I'm making 6 figures doing STEM work and I still have time to read several books a month. Even if I did "make it" with a humanities degree I'd have to deal with all the identity politics and BS that comes with academia and publishing.

It ain't a meme to get a stable job and then use the stable free time you have to enjoy literature.

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>mfw I majored in Chemistry and English, talked about Infinite Jest in my med school interview and got in

>>9729248

> majority of your written time
> written time

What do you mean by "written time"?

The way I see it, there are 168 hours in a week and 50 of those (on average, let's say) are spent at work. In my book that leaves ~120 hours of time left in the week to do whatever else you want. Even taking out 7*7 hours for sleep, you still have more hours of free time than working.

Even if you were right about the hours, though, you would be wrong about a job defining someone. Goethe was a civil servant, does that mean that he didn't know anything about literature? You just lack the imagination to think that if somebody is doing something in their free time that means they don't appreciate it. If you view your own life this way, you're just limiting yourself.

>>9729417
I'd add to this by saying that you need to have diversity in your week, and work can create that diversity if you enjoy it even slightly.

You don't need that much time in the week to do what you love.

Look at people working two full time jobs a week. Just act like reading, critical analysis and writing your shitbag book/essay is a second full time job.
If you're passionate enough you can do it, if you're not passionate enough, then why are you even complaining?

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>>9729078
>Nursing, Doctor, PA/PTs/NPs, Accounting, the Trades, Military, Business/Finance, entrepreneurship, Law, Networking

It seems like you have options

>fell for the STEM meme
>quit and picked up a trade
>now more content than ever

Understanding society in terms of mathematics and engineering is not bad though, it's all around you.

>have always loved both science and literature
>started university as a literature major
>it made me hate literature
>decide to switch to mechanical engineering
>it made me hate physics

Fuck. I'm just going to power through the next 2 years to get my engineering degree because of the job opportunities but I'm worried I'm going to end up working 50 hours a week at some car company, hating my life. Are engineering jobs as miserable as I've heard?

Yeah, I really regret it. Now I'm just hoping to go back to school and study something else. But due to the amount of debt I managed to incurr, that likely so t be possible any time soon.

I should probably just give up, but I can't bring myself to do it.

>>9729790
From what I've heard they are pretty shit if you're not in a really high-tier position.

Payment's good but lots of overtime and generally tedious and repetitive busywork.

>>9729790
>Are engineering jobs as miserable as I've heard?

They're worse. But at least if you're frugal you can save up enough money to take a lengthy break from work and perhaps make a career change.

>>9728816
>deconstructing

fucking kek

>>9729242
Electrical/computer. I solve problems with circuits and I code up scripts to automate a lot of my daily tasks

>>9729768
Interested to hear more about this

I did Maths without being great at it. When I realised I wasn't going to be great with women, ended up working super hard to get a top grade and now have a pretty comfortable job in cyber security. Have money to live comfortably, and have been a late bloomer of sorts. Read a couple of books a month. It gets better

I don't understand this. How do you "[fall] for the stem meme"?

Did you major in STEM for the money or something? In that case you deserve whatever you get. I majored in STEM because I like it. I also like reading, and do in my spare time.

>>9729078
>If you're not good at math you should honestly just be euthanized
Nah, I'm a doctor (as in medic) and do pretty well, there's always demand for the job all around the world.

I'm a Poli sci major a tier 3 Canadian university. No clue what I'm gonna do in the future, but I'm just enjoying the ride for now.

I fell for the botany meme. Hopefully I can find a job; haven't checked whether there's many openings or if it makes money, but I just liked the idea of working with plants.

>>9729032
haha this seriously just read nigga

>>9730684
Same, except I'm studying zoology. I have no idea what I'm gonna end up doing

>>9729078
hate to say it but brainlet at math either means you aren't that smart, or you find it too boring to pay attention to - which suggests a lack of willpower, if you want to make yourself do it but can't

intelligence isn't as compartmentalized as people think. INTEREST is, but talent is general. you're either bright or not that bright

>>9728762
>>tfw too late to switch to a humanities major
>>tfw going to graduate incredibly underread
I dropped out one semester before graduating in STEM.

What is "too late" you bimbo?

>it's a job bro
>do it as a hobby, decide later
>live a comfortable life
American piggy tier thread. No virtue, no self respect. Avoid suffering at all cost. Have great enlightenment -- go to meditation retreat.

dog people

Great disdain for all of you, from me.

Enjoy your yoga, doggos

>>9731036
what did he mean by this?

>>9731036
I agree with this.

>>9729779
You think the average STEM major (likely the ones who "fell" for it, graduated ignorantly) is intelligent enough to see math and sciences in the patterns of every day life? That takes experience, or else time with literature and your thoughts which few are willing or able to afford.

>>9731036
Are you serious?

You'd rather be unemployed or work shitty fast food jobs for your whole life?

Do you want to work at a fast food place in your 30s and have pharaoh (1999) be your favourite game?

>>9731257
>pharaoh (1999)
I vaguely remember what this is about.

>>9731036

> he fell for the "incomprehensible insult" meme

at least you'll have a chance at a job after graduation, I studied Spanish and still don't have a job in the field after 2 years.

now I'm back in school, getting my MA in Spanish

>>9728941
WRONG

Kafka worked from 8am to 1pm. He worked full-time for a year when he was around 23 / 24 but hated it and worked part-time instead.

Stupid cunt.

>>9731257
What's wrong with Pharoah (1999)? I play that shit all the time. Just yesterday I rescued my city from a fire and from Osiris flooding all the farmland.

>>9731288

>getting my MA in Spanish

Nigga why would you do that though

>always wanted to work in libraries or museums since i was a wee lad
>graduate with history degree
>no museum jobs
>get library job
>it is nothing like I thought it would be and fucking sucks a big rubber dong and the pay is shit and will always be shit

taking computer science classes at a community college now and plan on fixing all the mistakes I made for my other degree (i.e. not really applying myself, poor networking, not going to office hours).

Precalculus 1 was more difficult than any class I took for history desu. Has made me realize humanities majors are pathetic imo.

>>9728762
In Latin America an engineering degree instantly makes you part of the economical elite.

>>9731843
So does having $100.

>>9731881
good post

>>9731895
thanks friend

Yeah, I fell for the STEM meme too. I thought I'd be able to read and write in my spare time but I'm too tired after work to do anything more complex than watch TV or browse 4chan, and with all of the little shit that needs doing I don't get much free time anyways. Honestly going to kill myself if the rest of my life is going to be like this.

>>9731843
bull shit, you still can't even get a job with that.

>>9731881
Wow!
Top kek!

>>9728762
I did it once, and regretted it. I quit my comp-sci course and started studying law. Once again I regret it, should have chosen literature.

>>9728762
I'm a physics major. I admit I read much less often than in high school (back then I would get through a non-technical book every one or two days), but I'm learning worthwhile shit. I read in my spare time and manage to get at least a book or two in per week, depending on the length and if it's not around midterms or finals.

If you can't motivate yourself to read without having to do so for grades, do you even really enjoy it? Or is your goal just to become 'well-read'?

What about law

>>9732101
What can I say, the entire concept of it is immoral, in which that is quite genius. Same with medicine to a lesser extent. Being an artist at the same time as being one of these is just simply not possible!

>>9729248
lol presupposing "you" and it being able to be defined by a normative action

>>9728762
>tfw going to graduate incredibly underread

Then read more fag. Just take a hour or two out of your day to read.

>>9729417
I just skimmed goehtes wiki there and it says that he hates his career in the legal profession. He would rather dedicated his life to literature and writing full time


I think you are being disingenuous. Your job ultimately defines you. Especially if it is highly skilled eg doctor, lawyer, engineering. Something like that will inevitably eat up time you would rather spend reading

>>9731036
much sorry for bad english

>>9732186
>skimmed a wikipedia page
Well gee you're a certified fuckin expert now ain't ya

>computer science degree
>did TAing in my final year
>as an exercise for first years, they had to make a program that counted words from a Gutenberg copy of Anna Karenina
>not one person had heard of it or recognized the opening
>three people could name a Shakespeare play when the input asked them for a book for another exercise and I said put in a Shakespeare play (many had not even heard of him because they were Chinese or Indian)

JUST

>>9732459
Those are the people 4chan glorifies, and you are the one they denigrate. Remember that.

>>9732468
It's just pretty sad. It felt like these people didn't care about learning. They just wanted to know what was required and they were in it because it's "understaffed" so they'd get easy money.

>>9732521
The bitter fruits of money-worship.

>>9732459
>>three people could name a Shakespeare play when the input asked them for a book for another exercise and I said put in a Shakespeare play (many had not even heard of him because they were Chinese or Indian)


jesus christ what a horribly constructed sentence. You must be a moron. Not to mention the fact that you're actualy surprised that chinese and indians don't recognize western lit...
>>9732468
and then there's this delusional projecting tard...
FUCK

>>9729790
>Are engineering jobs as miserable as I've heard?

Well I've heard it's mostly staring at computer screens, phone calls, random busy work. And if you do actually design something, it's going to be a very small part, like the screw on a toilet or something.

But all jobs suck for the most part, unless you're self employed or the top dog in a company. It's called 'work' for a reason. People go into engineering for the money so they can do other shit with their lives

>>9728762
Just read some books you dumb faggot.

>>9732535
Mad STEMbabby who realizes he has forgone the true fruit of knowledge for the lowly gruel of material wealth, conformity, and repetition.

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ITT: those guys who go into work with a new car new watch new jeans and sit and move around doing something they absolutely dgaf about for the majority of their life.


FUCK THAT SHIT

>>9732186

> I just skimmed goehtes wiki
Forgive me if I don't take you as an authority on the matter, then.

> he hates his career in the legal profession
The legal profession wasn't the only non-literature thing he did. He was also a civil servant (like I originally said) and scientist (looking at botany, optics, etc.). Also, to the best of my knowledge, he resented his legal career not because it was non-literary but because he got a crap caseload that embarrassed him out of the gate.

EVEN IF everything you said was true, though, it wouldn't be a great argument for you. The fact that Goethe (hypothetically) resented not writing full time is not a reason that others should focus on literature full time--they have different personalities and can divide their time differently. The reason I brought him up was to combat this sentiment:

> I think you are being disingenuous. Your job ultimately defines you.
Goethe is just one of the examples that disprove this. He was never really a "full time author" but he's ultimately remembered for his literary achievements today. People are only "defined by their job" to the extent that they let themselves be. A lot of people, when introducing themselves, will say "Hi, I'm Bob and I'm an engineer." When they do this, you are correct and they do define themselves by their work. But who is forcing them to think this way? The answer is no one, and it's just a cultural habit that people have gotten into. There's nothing stopping you from just rejecting the thought that "I'm an engineer and that's just what I am" and writing a book/researching in your spare time. Or being a DJ in your spare time. Or doing awesome volunteer work in your free time. Defining yourself by your job is a self-imposed limitation on your own potential, not a universal maxim.

Anyways, I'm sorry for going out of the way to pick on you. If you feel the need to make literature into you're life's work in order to appreciate it, by all means do so. I genuinely hope that it's rewarding. But you can't tell everyone to do the same thing, and it's not necessary for them to do so anyways.

>>9732640

> it is only possible to gaf about one thing in your life

Well meme'd, my friend.

>>9732618
Mad LA student who has 50k of debt and serious envy of the sweet cars his STEM buddies are driving.

And also all the sweet literature his STEM buddies are reading with healthy spirits that haven't been embittered by endless debates about identity politics, critical theory, and deconstructionism.

>>9732649
>no time for the part time

I never been one to half ass my life's work, but hey that's just me

>>9732661
A fast car can't drive you away from the crushing emptiness inside you

>>9728762
I fell for the STEM meme just out of highschool. It was fucking terrible for the reasons this anon articulates >>9729143 .

I found myself less and less interested in science and engineering compared to when I was in high-school. (Granted, I was an insufferable fedora-tipper in high-school, and my worldview changed considerably during my first year of university)

Changed to a Phil major a year later, at a better university as well. I've been much happier since. I have a talent in mathematics, which can be helpful in Philosophy too.

Would I have been better off doing engineering, hating it at the same time, but with supposedly better job-security at an inferior university? I may never know.

>>9732695
the only thing that can do that is delusion faggot.
my life of luxury and comfort has led me astray. Surely i should have picked a more painful way to fool myself.

>>9732710
You seem to have a lot of repressed anger.

>>9732714
you'd have no way of knowing that.
I'm jus being real with you.
im neither of those other guys just so you know.

>>9729768
Trades are my plan Z if everything else goes to shit

>>9732717
Why are you so eager to disassociate from yourself?

>>9730963
pascal disagreed with you, and I agree with him

>>9730982
What are you doing now Anon?

I just graduated with a STEM master's degree. Been half-assedly applying to jobs but not really feeling it. Considering just being a highly educated NEET. Funny thing is, my bachelor's is in English.

>>9729078
i can relate

end me

>>9732080
Don't do physics major if you want a job.

>>9728816
You're a pseud, good work. Enjoy that old hag wife!
>>9728868
>common sense
Fuck off back to /r/eddit. You already embody that same 'inflated ego'

>>9729779
Society doesn't exist, mathematics and engineering do not exist.

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>fell for the "do what you love!" meme and took Literature
>share classes with insufferable slam poetry people
>otherwise people who are not at all interested in Literature
>a "full-time course" of 6 hours per week
>can only read set texts for 3 years
>What little I have learned about literature I have had to teach myself
>graduate with slim career prospects
>go to China because there is no work in Brokun Brexit Brittan for a humanities graduate

>>9731737
History is not a humanities course.
Precalculus 1 was only difficult for you because you're a moron. My first degrees were in engineering and physics, and I easily taught a young girl up to most of what I was taught in mathematics up to my 3rd year. By the time we got there, I quit my job and began shitting on STEM.

>>9730684
Start a weed crop

I'm doing Engineering Physics (truly the most /lit/ engineering degree), and I love the problem solving and the general knowledge, even though I have objectively mediocre grades and have no interest in the actual physics anymore. But I fear that most engineering jobs seem to contain very little problem solving - you just get your tools you apply in 90% of the cases, and the only thing that changes are the details - you don't need to find any actual solutions most of the time. That, and getting stuck in middle/project-manager hell is my biggest fear work-wise.

What's the most /lit/ degree? Classics at Oxford?

>>9733410
I'm sorry anon.

>>9733410
Jane?

>>9730963
>talent is general

You can't just say that as a blanket statement. People are individuals, reccomend that the OP goes to see a psychologist focused in learning disabilities rather than say that OP is stupid in all other areas.

I have a verbal reasoning IQ of 147 yet my maths IQ is at 85. I thought I was an idioit in all other areas thanks to people like you. Fuck you.

>you are probably intrinsically too inferior to be at non stem things

Yes sure, he's statistically likely to be bad at verbal reasoning due to his lower maths ability seeing as types of intelligence generally correlate with each other. But there are other explanations as well, the more likely one being that he has dyslexia,dyspraxic, or some other learning disability. Either way a psychologist is needed, not a retard like you.

Applied maths will get me anywhere I want right

>>9733425
>>9733410
lol

>>9732661
>identity politics

Kys

>>9733435
Oops I meant to write dyscalculia not dyslexia

>>9733435
>those spelling and grammar errors
my condolences

>>9733493
Yep I am dyslexic. My grammer and education have always been shit yep pretty funny you faggot. But guess what? My verbal reasoning is at 147 on the WAIS, I am the top 99.9th percentile of verbal ability. I can articulate myself better than you, and have won national debate competitions. Whatever hobby you have will still pale in comparison to my public speaking ability.

Oh and with dragon text to speech I can pretty much fix all basic grammatical errors. Anyways even though I insulted you you piece of shit, could you tell me where I messed my crammer?

P.S

I'm also typing from my phone which is harder

P.P.S

I Am probably going to get all A's and A*'S at A level and go to a Oxbridge uni

Its also worth mentioning that verbal IQ is correlated with succuse more than ANY of the other IQ subtests.

I am the next Fitzgerald.

>>9733522
i did not mean to belittle your intellect we all are special keep that chin up lad you will get into oxbridge one day

i wish you the best for your succuse

STEM students can read literature and better themselves in the humanities on the side.

STEM teaches structural thinking and logic that can only be fully realised within a structured learning environment. Tutors, live interaction, and standardised testing.

How many scientists and engineers became self-taught successful writers? Many.

How many authors have become successful self-taught scientists and engineers? None. It's impossible unless they went back to school started over and got qualifications in that field, in which case they would no longer be "self taught".

Thousands of humanities students graduate and wish they studied something more concrete so they'd have job oppourtunities.

0 STEM students graduate and wish they studied humanities so they could read a book or write. They just do those things anyway.

>>9733474

But dyscalculia is numbers and arithmetic.

Mathematics is about as far from numbers and arithmetic as its possible to get.

>>9733522
You're so fucking stupid, my man.

>>9733626
Woah! How articulate of you.


Surely you can do a little bit better?

>>9733570
People with dyscalculia often cant even pass there maths GCSE. Surely if they can't do a maths GCSE they can't do any further mathematics either ?


Also the original person I replied to was presenting a false dichotomy

>you are dumb
> or lazy

He forgets a third option, namely that you could be dumb in one area and smart in another.

>>9733640

Hmm, basic mathematics for kids is all arithmetic (times tables etc.), so I guess failing that could put someone off and give them a long term hate of mathematics.

But no, the further into mathematics you go the more abstract it becomes. Mathematics is the highest concrete form of logic there is. Only philosophy is higher on logic but philosophy is dealing in wishy washy stuff that's not real. Mathematics is all real and grounded in the real world.

>>9733640
>>9733711

And to put it into perspective.

I was a physics student, and I can count on my hands the total amount of times I used a calculator in my studies. 90% of those times were just as the final step to an exam question.

Physics involves even more numbers than mathematics because we're modelling real world phenomena instead of dealing just in ideas. Maths students at university barely have any need to touch a calculator at all.

>>9733633
I don't need to, I'm not the insecure dyslexic on a literature board.

>>9733711
Okay fair enough I didn't know this. I guess I may be wrong here.

>>9733711
I am kinda confused, what skills are used for mathematics? Spatial reasoning? Verbal reasoning? Working memory? Ect.


Also, I would still say my original point stands strong in that it is possible for someone to be smart in one area of intelligence and dumb in another.

>>9733711
>Mathematics is all real and grounded in the real world.

nO.

>>9733717
I accomplish more in my sleep than you do in a day.

>>9733728

It's difficult to describe. Basically all logical thinking.

All the sciences train your mind much like philosophy does, just in a slightly different way.

Breaking complicated things into logical abstractions, drawing conclusions from those. Imagination and creativity to "see" where to go and derive new things.

You have to be able to draw conclusions from things, and relate things to other things in a complicated web. Almost nothing stands alone, or at least you don't generate anything useful or insightful from a toy model all on its own. The interesting stuff happens from putting different things together like bricks.

Spatial and visual thinking is relevant sometimes yes.

Working memory is always important but that's true of most disciplines. It's particularly important in maths and sciences though to remember other results and not get lost in the trees when trying to see the forest and derive a wider result. You can easily be bogged down and not see the way ahead. It's very important though for getting to a stage and remembering X previous result so you have the imagination to see that "aha if I do this to that, then it looks like that other thing and I can use X previous result to simplify this".

So yes you need working memory to have a toolbox of theorems and results that you can attack the new thing with.

It's kind of true when people say mathematics is a language. Being good at arithmetic is like knowing lots of English words. It doesn't help you have anything interesting to say or help your knowledge of grammar. It doesn't even help you think anything interesting. It's the most basic useless level. But you still teach kids English by starting with single words.

>>9733750

In the sense that it comes from the universe itself and describes it all mathematics is real.

Just because you can't put an imaginary number on a numberline and have an imaginary number quantity of apples, doesn't mean its not "real".

Engineers use imaginary numbers everyday to design your smartphone CPU and radio wave transmitters and in signals processing like your .flac collection. They're totally real.

This thread is ~~spooky~~

>>9733207
>jealous of Anon
>call him a pseud
>still feel discontent and suicidal because my life is stagnating

Don't worry, anon. Things will get better for you. Maybe.

I think every single non-STEM degree should be illegalized and every student of these courses should be shot.

I also think that STEM majors should get special privileges in regards to voting (like having a special voting system), because they're the only human beings that are able to think rationally. Wolfs in a world of sheep.

Music should get regulated by the state, every nigger that "raps" or makes other subhuman music should be shot on sight. The only music that should be on the radio should the the country's national anthem and traditional music. No modern degenerate trash anymore.

I also think that TVs should be illegalized because they contain too much power when most people are stupid sheeple. People should learn math or physics in their free time, and do the occasional sports.

I also geniuenly believe that high positions of political power should go ONLY to STEM majors, since they are the smartest people, and, as said before, the only ones capable of critikal and rational thinking.

Only the finest Humans can hold such high positions of power.

Furthermore, it is also important to make guns easily available to the people, so they can defend themselves from all kinds of threads.
Open carrying should be allowed and ENCOURAGED, to create an unity between all people, and to prepare them for the upcoming Anti-Degenerate war.

In this war, every non-STEM major and every manlet and everyone bald will the executed AND shot, and then their corpses will be used as food for the animals.

>>9733950
reminder this is unironically /g/ + /sci/

>>9732958
how does one neet?

seriously considering quitting my engineering job and getting a part time one so i can go to Holy Mass and read the rest of the time.

>>9734157
>getting a part time

So only working 35 hours a week instead of 40 hours?

Part-time is utter shite nowadays and absolutely IMPOSSIBLE to survive with if you're not living at home.

It just sucks, it's either NEETing or full-time working nowadays.

I failed the STEM meme so hard that I lack the motivation to even finish my degree, and now make a living correcting assignments for undergraduate students.

The largest problem with STEM education is that the courses are highly repetitive, and so most the students spend their time practicing how to solve familiar problems. Most people I encounter trough my job resemble faceless soldiers on duty.

The problem with humanities is that it clearly doesn't weed out the unintelligent people. I sometimes get humanities students taking the introductory programming class, and most of the time they are unable to comprehend even the most simple logic.

>>9729143
>STEM programs should start making philosophy courses compulsory.
My university have that, and it doesn't help. The philosophy class takes on philosophical history and ethics to build a moral framework around the contemporary political reality. That is probably the case for formal education anyway - it makes you "a good citizen".

>>9733207
You sound frustrated.

>>9733640
>dumb in one area and smart in another.
Would you visit an art gallery to contemplate the uncontrolled spasms of a genius? If you are unable to control what you leave on the canvas, you should never become a painter.

>>9729078
>graduate high school
>only took the minimum required math classes to graduate
>join the military
>get out of the army at 26
>go to university
>take a placement test to see which math to be in
>beginning algebra
>my teacher taught the same subject to middle schoolers as her other job
>still only get a C

Math is the hardest shit in the world if you haven't done it in a long time. It's been 8 years and I forgot absolutely everything.

>>9729259
did you get an english degree and are now bitter as the starbucks your brew at your "career"?

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>>9728762
Remainder that the best writers didn't have a lit-realted job. Dracula is a good example of this.

>>9731257
You know, some people actually have a spine.
Oh wait, you will never have, cause you were born in shitty family and thought to run away.

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>>9734514
You were saying?

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>>9734540
You know what i sad darling

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>>9729078
>>9729098
>through childhood all the math teachers I had made me anxious to various degrees and even afraid of attempting to answer a question in class
>by the time I finished High School I was barely mediocre at math compared to everyone else
>tfw hate math now
On the other hand most of my language teachers were really nice so I never had any problem with the work nor the classes. I don't know if it's a math thing where you just become a disgruntled annoyed cunt the longer you do it or if it's being a male teacher, but man those guys made me feel like they were going to bite my head off if I didn't give them the exact answer they wanted, and relatively quickly too.

>>9733950
rational thought is degenerate

>tfw studied economics and math
>tfw read, wrote, and studied literature all on my own time throughout college

>>9732544
so is it less work than a compsci major?

>>9734514
Yeah most of them didn't have a job at all and kafka basically worked part-time

>mfw there are il/lit/erates who would actually fall for the humanities meme

The greeks were STEMfags, no one you meet in college will be anything other than a bumbling fuck wit anyway.

>>9734540

> your assertion:
All good writers were full-time authors

> your proof:
One good writer was a full-time author

Your assertion is too broad to be proved by any number of individual cases, and can in fact be disproven by any counterexample. Like the one that you were responding to.

>>9732731

Man, I am so glad this board is anonymous. Otherwise, heaven forbid, we would actually be able to tell who we were talking to!

>>9735022
You've got it backwards. The person I was responding to argued that the best writers didn't have lit-related jobs. I provided an example (and there are many more) of one of the best writers who was a full-time author, thus disproving his assertion.

>>9728762
>tfw graduating next august
i realized the last couple months how much i hate engineering on the plus side now i can pursue my dreams and study philosophy.

>>9729779
>wanting to be part of a more mechanized society

>>9731036
this

>>9733336
English literature from a state school in the deep South that's know for its engineering school and football program

>>9729078
>>9730963
>>9732960
>>9734483
>>9734560

I've also developed severe math anxiety.

What medication would help with overcoming it? Adderall?

>>9735399
Anxiety how? was it taught to you by force?

Just realise its hard and its meant to be. But when you start it progressively gets easier.

I fell for the stem meme and now I just want to do drugs while fucking hookers in my free time.

>>9729254
Do you have a job title?

>english degree, technical focus
>expend barely any effort to do better than 90% of the people in my class
>realize how abysmally low the standards for success are here
>now very nervous
>reassure myself that i'll be competing with these chuds for jobs. i can write circles around them in any creative or tech genre
>get degree
>find out employers want their tech writers barely adequate and they can ship that in by the cargo container from india

FUCK

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BROKE: HUMANITIES DEGREE
JOKE: STEM DEGREE
WOKE: TRADE SCHOOL WELDING/MACHINING

>>9735472
Woke: trust fund NEET patrician
Slave: literally everybody else

>>9735472
The trades are alright when you're young, but enjoy your broken body once you're older

>>9730035
1 year out of school and I'm retiring in 8. Live like a minwagie, learn basic finance, and you can buy your freedom.

>>9729749
>Math
>Law
lol, English is a better major for seguing into Law than any math

>>9735520
Considered looking into finance but it seems like jumping in the ocean and asking the sharks to make me one of them, i .e. i'm going to get eaten.

Where would you recommend somebody look?

>>9735545
Honestly, if you're totally new read some of John Bogle's stuff. It's dry as hell, but it explains it pretty simply (just buy index funds).

What really got my interest going was Ed Thorpe's A Man for All Markets, which drove me into plowing through The Kelly Capital Growth Investment Criterion: Theory and Practice.

It's easy to get autistic with it, but that's a good thing.

>>9733564
I don't want to be a scientist, or an engineer

>>9728762
The University I attended is heavily focused on STEM. It's rife with Indians, Asians, and sperglords who spend their free time playing Smash and watching Netflix. Just a walk through the library would demonstrate what the school is churning out: technicians and future managers hunched over laptops, surrounded by thousands of books that they will never even take a glance at. I would go there to read/study, and autists would come to watch an episode of Parks and Rec as they obnoxiously ate a cheeseburger. Intellectual deadweights.

Thank God the Humanities department is comfy af. There's really only two professors who teach continental philosophy but they're great, my last two years were the most rewarding years of my life thus far. Actually just got an email from a professor who's organizing an extracurricular reading group where we'll be reading either Shakespeare/poetry/philosophy or religious texts. He's leaving it up to us.

Don't fall for the STEM meme; math won't prepare you for death.

>>9732958

How did you get a STEM master's from an English BA?
Asking because this may be the route I end up taking (will be doing a math minor as well, just for the fuck of it)

>>9735472
I know a kid who went to a shitty state school for football and was too dumb for that so he dropped out. Now he's going to welding school. He spends most of his time drinking and being a general shithead. I used to really hate him in high school because he'd pick on me for being quiet, so watching him fuck up terribly all on his own is a very cathartic feeling.

I hope he welds until he dies.

pop was a high speed mathematician/engineer @ lockheed martin for 10+ years working @ NASA

working on some cutting edge technology etc.

went on to become a private consultant, made really good money.

but despite making lot of money, the truth is- money doesnt make you happy. he was worked very hard during his career, and was quite stressed for many years.

smart guy though

>>9728762
yes but organic chemistry changed my view on life. really solidified my opinion on determinism

>>9733336
>classics
'muh colonialism' is not /lit/ unless you literally mean /lit/ -- the shithole board.
>>9733564
>systematics
>good

>>9733711
>real
Fuck off, Platonist. Logic is nonexistent and 'reality' is nonexistent.
>>9733925
>projecting
>>9734419
You sound weak.

>>9734850
The Greeks were fucking morons

>>9728762
fortunately for you being an English major is unlikely to make you better read

>>9736175
>falling for their lies

>>9736936
Can confirm. Just finished MA program. Outside of my specific interests, I know just a little about the broader canon.

>>9735251
I finished my MSc. in engineering one year ago, and spent the year studying philosophy at the same school. Can highly recommend it if your finances are in order.