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>People call him the ultimate anti-traditionalist
>Clearly states his goal to preserve the traditional culture and values of English civilization
?
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>>9705110
English civilization doesn't have a traditional culture or values
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>>9705110
>states his goal to preserve the traditional culture and values of English civilization
So he's an anti-capitalist cuck?
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>>9705110
>the traditional culture and values of English civilization
uber-merchantilism ultra-monarchy, globe shattering tech-domination. flippant red horizon cannon-orgy chap. digital anglos. cyber opium.
the british empire restored in binary.
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nick land is for nerds who masturbate to world of warcraft
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>>9705120
pretty much
more here
>The neo-reactionaries spring from the universities and tech hubs of the UK and US—an appropriate setting for an elitist political movement. Nick Land, formerly a philosopher at Warwick University, is among the prominent neo-reactionaries.
What is interesting about the neo-reactionaries is that they foresee technological developments, particularly Artificial Intelligence, as leading to a necessary return to a hierarchical, ultra-ordered society—or total social collapse, the former possibly presaged by the former.
>Neo-reactionaries maintain that as AI develops societies will become increasingly economically polarised. This polarisation between a tech nobility and impoverished serfs will be further exacerbated by genetic engineering, which may cause actual speciation between the tech nobility and the ordinary human serfs. Further, the AI itself is unlikely to benevolent and may spontaneously adopt reactionary positions on, for example, race and physiognomy.
>The neo-reactionary world view owes much to Nietzsche—as entropy is the rule in physics so entropy is the rule in the political and social matters. ‘Gnon’ is the humorous appellation neo-reactionaries give to the dark ‘God’ of entropy that moves everything towards chaos. The leftward movement in Western societies is conceptualised as entropic—it moves towards atomisation, breakdown and decay.
>Neo-reaction’s would-be aristocrats have a wry appreciation for the Jacobites—the diehard Catholic Stuarts who tried to regain the crown of England. This matches neo-reaction’s deep suspicion towards Protestantism, which—in line with Nietzsche—they see as presaging socialism, liberalism and all entropic forces in modernity.
>The Catholic Church, the Roman Empire—these are institutions neo-reactionaries believe should be leading society. The Church has proved itself robust in evolutionary terms; it has survived, but the rational plans of socialists and liberals were chewed up by Gnon’s mandibles. Gnon is not the Christian god, but somehow he watches over those Christian institutions that cleave to hierarchy.
https://medium.com/@TXHart/a-rough-guide-to-the-alt-right-neo-reaction-and-the-alt-light-97e673692732
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>>9705164
So does he hate women, gays, and nonwhites or not? What is his solution to solving the woman and nonwhite issue?
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>>9705132
Wrong
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>>9705178
>>9705178
Optimize for Intelligence.
That's his thing. He's very consistent with it. It's all of a piece. Everything that 99% of greasy meatbags do only serves Capital in the end. It's why he's so anti-democratic, or one of those reasons, anyways.
All demotic crises are a part of the general Not Optimizing For Intelligence issue that he sees as a form of liberalism in morbid decline. He doesn't have an ethnat stance and he doesn't need one. Singapore is a good look but it's because there it's Reals > Feels v/economics.
He doesn't hate women, gays, nonwhites, Jews, etc. He prefers an old-school model of the Anglosphere and a Right Now version of the Sinosphere because there Capital functions and in it people seem to have a marginally better idea of this.
That's the difference between NRx and the Alt-Right. No idpol, no JQ. There is undeniably racism there but it's veiled, or at least restrained, and doesn't go ahead of the Prime Directive. Just corporate deals and sovereign government. The rest of it to him is only so much static.
NRx isn't all him. He's the in-house philosopher. Moldbug is the guy for more politics stuff, and there the issue is the Cathedral. Which does what it does for reasons it doesn't really understand. But that's all economic too in the end.
The issue isn't women and nonwhites, the issue is primitivism.
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>>9705178
>What is his solution to solving the woman and nonwhite issue?
His answer to everything: Let capital take care of it.
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>>9705195
>That's the difference between NRx and the Alt-Right. No idpol, no JQ
The JQ exists but the answers are far more diverse and refined. Sadly, idpol is seeping in.
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>>9705206
>Sadly, idpol is seeping in.
Probably inevitable but it's a bad look. Land has been explicit in his disavowal of it.
>According to the White Nationalist fraternity, the Dark Enlightenment tends to like civilized people even when they aren’t really white. I think that’s right (and Right), although — of course — it’s supposed to be a problem.
>It’s certainly amusing that the only people who don’t think we’re Nazis are the Nazis. They recognize that “cognitive elitists” are inherently prone to race treachery — which could be pushed all the way out to species treachery (if I have anything to do with it). Optimize for intelligence isn’t any kind of key to racial solidarity, or solidarity of any other kind. Even HBD, they generally insist, isn’t them (it’s too attentive to PISA ratings and such). There are some seriously interesting controversies implicit in all this, although rage is likely to break them up before they get very far. It makes me realize that one thing I appreciate about the Neoreaction is its anger management, which is inextricable from its taste for irony (and probably also from its decadence).
http://www.xenosystems.net/white-out/
>The JQ exists but the answers are far more diverse and refined.
True. The refinement counts for a lot. It's what corrodes ideology. And you don't even need to read Land go full NRx either. But his thought lined up well with Moldbug and that's why they got along so well.
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>>9705230
Sorry, dumb post. Tired. I meant to say, you don't need to go full NRx after reading Land. Acceleration alone as a phenomenon - together with social cyberneticization - is more than sufficient to get your noggin' floggin.
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>>9705230
I actually think Land's view on the JQ is very weak compared to someone like Curt Doolittle https://www.quora.com/Why-does-the-1-7-Jewish-population-in-USA-have-so-much-political-power/answer/Curt-Doolittle?share=eb0b9e37 Land's assessment of the issue lacks his usual rigor and I suspect this is for personal reasons you probably know about.
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>>9705164
Thanks for this info. The new Nick Land article threads were quite interesting but large chunks were inscrutable or opaque to me because I lack the necessary background knowledge.
Could you red pill me on the sovereignty thing, a frequent theme in those threads? I understand sovereignty from a US history perspective, with respect to states choosing to enter the union, and so on. Also, sovereignty in the context of international law, with nation-states choosing to submit to the jurisdiction of various courts, or not.
But I infer that the sovereignty at issue in the Nick Land discussions was a different sort of sovereignty, having to do with something like personal autonomy, but not quite that, or so I inferred.
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>>9705303
http://unqualified-reservations.blogspot.hk/2007/05/magic-of-symmetric-sovereignty.html
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>>9705258
Good article.
>my goal is to articulate western high trust ethics
This is a Land thing too, although he comes to it in the way that he does: for him it's *Bitcoin.* This is why, or one of the reasons, why Bitcoin matters to him: minimal trust assumptions. Atomization. Humans cannot be trusted, ultimately, where economic concerns are at stake. Economic concerns being everywhere at stake, this trickles into politics. Politics subsequently being largely about the purveyance of meme ideologies, things get ???.
It's a cold, very cold, way to approach human life. But the reason why Land is interesting is because he's *consistent.* Economics is in the end more consistent for him than politics. He wants to exterminate Feels, in a sense. Or at least regard them with the Lovecraftian suspicion they warrant.
Ethnat stuff just skews with things in ways that are for him made much, much simpler as being functions of Capital's ongoing development. I don't subscribe all the way to his nihilism but it's a nihilism that is at times a refreshing bucket of ice-water dumped over the heads of would-be gnostic warlords following their heart-strings.
>>9705303
>sovereignty
This is actually a pretty tough concept and I don't want to mislead you. Here is what I *do* know (or think I know):
In those threads we were using those terms more or less interchangeably and that was probably confusing. The two guys you want to read here are Schmitt and Bataille.
For Bataille it refers to a concept of freedom, radical freedom, as in, No Identity freedom. As free as it gets. Bataille's sovereign being is not really conservative, being as aristocratically hung-up on they are v/god/eroticism &c. They are built for squandering and excess.
>sovereignty for Bataille is based on the dissipation of excess energy and it involves dedicating ourselves to the expenditure of energy. What he does is flip Marx and the economists on their head. He argues that the question of the economy is not always one of coping with scarcity; it is one of coping with excess or superabundance.
Perhaps both the Master *and* the Slave in Hegel, if that makes sense: a sort of slave doomed to seek the Master that he also is.
More here.
http://sauer-thompson.com/conversations/archives/001152.html
Schmitt's concept of sovereignty is not quite the same, but it's not so different either. Rather, "Sovereign is he who decides upon the exception." What did he mean by this? Just that: *freedom.* Who's the Master? What rules *should* a head of state be beholden to? He's on rough territory here, and this is why he invokes the friend/enemy distinction at the core of political thought. The sovereign is Free and not bound by rule or convention. Consider this, for instance:
>humanity is not a political concept
So what is it then? God only knows.
More here.
https://solutioperfecta.files.wordpress.com/2011/10/gulli-the-sovereign-exception-8x10.pdf
I hope that helps, or partly.
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>>9705397
>This is a Land thing too, although he comes to it in the way that he does: for him it's *Bitcoin.* This is why, or one of the reasons, why Bitcoin matters to him: minimal trust assumptions
You may find use for this, I don't know.
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>>9705445
I remember this. Some anon on /lit/ (you?) writing to Land and getting a response. V cool.
Anyways that's basically it. The decline of high-trust infrastructure. And the reasons for this are everywhere (atomization). Basically Protestantism, which becomes liberalism, which becomes...well, everything it is today. Capitalism. Except that Capital-as-demiurge now spends the spenders and buys back itself.
Plus also Bitcoin will not be tied to fiat currency or gold reserves, which makes it free for all kinds of other interesting transactions that he likes, and for various reasons. It's also part of the technological/technocommercial determinism that he subscribes to.
Makes me wonder how much of it is nostalgia, ultimately. And how much is fear. Regardless, he's the world's most interesting philosopher, or one of. Digesting acceleration really changed the way I look at the world. If anything it's helped to make me less political rather than more.
But in general the decline of high trust is just a sad thing. Inevitable perhaps. But sad. And ultimately perhaps signifying much worse things to come, depending on what side of the collapse you are on.
It's why I've been so interested in him. Not because I dream of someday living in an NRx paradise. I won't. More because I think that his antennae have picked up the warning signal that winter is coming, and to act right accordingly. Forget meme politics. Optimize for Intelligence.
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>>9705115
Dis! Whitez have no kulture!
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>>9705477
english have no culture just like any other contemporary nation
they are a horde of identityless savages that inherited culture of immense value, but don't understand it or know to appreciate it
take a walk outside and look at what their buildings look like, turn on the radio and listen to the newest hip-hop or rap "music", look at what they are wearing, how tehy make their things in general, what are their customs like
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>>9705491
Exaktly my nigga and thatz why we are going to rape and you murk you really soon.
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>>9705164
>What is interesting about the neo-reactionaries is that they foresee technological developments, particularly Artificial Intelligence, as leading to a necessary return to a hierarchical, ultra-ordered society
Wouldn't transhumanism lead to egalitarianism, not hierarchy, since everyone could just upload their consciousness and then install some sort of intelligence upgrade? I mean, maybe in the short term this stuff would only benefit the rich, assuming the present system persists, but in the long term, it seems like it would make almost all forms of hierarchy obsolete. I get the feeling these guys would like to make 2/3rds of humanity miserable just so they can LARP as some villain they saw in a video game. It's pathetic.
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All these threads reek of astroturf.
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>>9705524
ur just noticing this now?
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>>9705509
>Wouldn't transhumanism lead to egalitarianism, not hierarchy, since everyone could just upload their consciousness and then install some sort of intelligence upgrade?
Ideally yes, of course.
>I mean, maybe in the short term this stuff would only benefit the rich, assuming the present system persists, but in the long term, it seems like it would make almost all forms of hierarchy obsolete.
Possibly. *Hopefully.* But would you count on it? The present term is defined by economic inequality and that process is arguably only getting more exacerbated. The serious question to ask is if automation keeps up and continues to displace the working class...what incentive do the rich have to share? Do they benefit from social collapse? There are already luxury doomsday bunkers being built.
Stuff like this.
>I get the feeling these guys would like to make 2/3rds of humanity miserable just so they can LARP as some villain they saw in a video game.
The thing is that there is a horrible recursive logic in this. The worse things get, the more wealth stratifies, the greater the incentive to cozy up with other people who are going to help you *stay* rich, and the worse it looks down below.
>It's pathetic.
It's horrible. I agree. So who's to blame? It Is What It Is and so on. The Spice Must Flow.
I don't ascribe much to conspiracy theory. But I have no problem seeing capitalism as this autonomous process that generates profit and scarcity, luxury and inequality, all at the same time. It is trending towards automation (clearly) transhumanism (probably) and AI (definitely). So all of this in play.
Liberal democracy is a great system. I hope it lasts. But for the time being it doesn't seem to have much way of reigning in the temptation to plunder. If you don't want to read Land, read Piketty instead.
My thing is mimetics (and since Tiqqun, social cyberneticization, which is to say the same thing). All this describes the process of acceleration - the Industrial revolution into the Financial revolution into the Cybernetic revolution. All this makes sense to me.
Rubbing your hands and gloating about it? Only if you're an absolute cunt, of course. Even Land isn't doing that. He's just putting out an argument. Of course in the long run making hierarchy obsolete would be good. Do you see that happening? I wish I did.
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>>9705397
>>sovereignty
Many thanks.
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>>9705389
Thanks!
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>>9705537
You still haven't explained why you think hierarchy will persist once people are no longer tied to their biology and gaps in intelligence can be closed with a simple software upgrade. This isn't even getting into scarcity and resource competition, which wouldn't make a lot of sense at that point, much less ideas of race and nationality and the reactionary political forms they seem to favor.
From what I've seen, NRxers seem to assume exponential growth in technology to get to where they want to get to, but then just stop thinking as soon as it conflicts with their political views.
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Highly recommended for everyone ITT
https://www.amazon.com/Nietzsches-Great-Politics-Hugo-Drochon/dp/069116634X
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>>9705164
>tfw it's just tech nerds going all hawhaw I'll be your boss one day *snort*
top jej
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>>9705572
>You still haven't explained why you think hierarchy will persist once people are no longer tied to their biology and gaps in intelligence can be closed with a simple software upgrade.
Sadly I think it will persist simply Because Reasons. This isn't my argument, just a personal reflection on human nature and the sense I get from following these ideas. Economic inequality and scarcity are baked-in to the liberal understanding. Freedom - who doesn't like Freedom? - only goes better with wealth. There will be more things to buy, more cool things to own, all of this. With no end in sight as tech advances.
Just because you're no longer tied to your biology doesn't mean the idea of owning seven or eight multinationals will go away. I know Nick Hanauer says even a millionaire only needs three pairs of jeans, but there is no upper limit on how Happy you can be with a fat bank account. If you can live forever you might as well live happily. Especially if the rest of the world, steadily impoverishing, requires you to live in a gated community. It might as well be a nice gated community, maybe at sea. Who knows.
There are exceptions to this. First, the possibility that if you crush out the middle class you will destroy the tech innovation all this depends on. Or second that the system becomes so hopelessly bloated that it breaks down and takes the rich with it. War, thermonuclear or otherwise. All possible.
>This isn't even getting into scarcity and resource competition
The scarcity and resource competition aren't going to go away. Populations rise. Automation puts people out of work. The environment degrades. Terrorism rises. People get angry. All of this. Long before anyone is actually uploading themselves to their AI forms or whatever.
>ideas of race and nationality and the reactionary political forms they seem to favor.
These don't matter. Forget this. Race and nationality only matter to the alt-right and that's something different. What matters is that the form of government people adopts reflects the actual exigencies of world capitalism. Small micro-states like Singapore seem to work better. Huge, politically divided states like the US struggle. Capitalism as a process is changing everything as it continually techs up. Land wants you to understand how this works.
Forget race and nationality. Land likes the Chinese right now because of the *baizuo* and all that, but he ultimately likes Singapore. You know who else Singapore? The Singaporeans. That's the important thing.
>NRxers seem to assume exponential growth in technology to get to where they want to get to
That exponential growth is happening, it's crazy not to assume it. Things are moving *fast.* Mostly they're trying to keep up with it. Land is betting that those attitudes are compatible. He might be right.
Liberal democracy is better. But many other people besides Land have speculated that it's not compatible with free-market capitalism. Capital appears to be winning out.
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>>9705603
That would be great. Wake me up from this nightmare senpai. Maybe it was all just a dream. I'm okay with this also.
Anyways, I don't want to be That Guy v/Land any more than I already am. In that last monster Land thread I shook most of sillies out in that regard. My feeling is that he's worth reading to get a sense of these issues, and then make up your mind accordingly. Personally I think this idea of *social cyberneticization* makes a LOT of sense and I think that's what he tapped into. Now he's doing his NRx thing and that's fine, that's something else. The political stuff isn't really my bag. Metaphysics > politics. I'm here for the memes. And Capital is the ultra-meme in that sense. That's pretty much it.
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>>9705110
>culture and values of English civilization
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>>9705598
>hardcover only: 37 bucks
fugg
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>>9705164
>the rational plans of socialists and liberals
eh, they just can't help it
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>>9705572
So you seem to be saying a bunch of things here. Hypothetically, you say, if biological and intelligence differences could be eliminated then hierarchy would no longer be needed. If we were equal, then we don't need hierarchy. I don't agree with this at all. But even if I did, the economic cost of this technological equalization is something to consider. It will be more expensive to enhance the intelligence of someone who is not naturally intelligent, so this equalization is still premised upon economic inequality. Which comes first, economic inequality or equality in biology or intelligence? If the former comes first, how do you get from there to the latter? What use is a hypothetical where scarcity is ignored, when scarcity is what is relevant?
The likely scenario I foresee when cognitive (and physical) enhancements become cheap enough for mass consumption (but not cheap enough for equalization) is that the masses will pick the enhancements that is most satisfies their lust for resentment. Wisdom is still a thing. And the wisdom of the crowds are not always good. So rather than life extension or enhancements that improves one's aesthetic or moral sensibilities, they will select enhancements that gives them an edge in competition, whether economic or in combat. There will be a backlash against this, which will take the form of hierarchy. Even toppling this hierarchy will result in a new hierarchy, led by those well versed in toppling hierarchies, which will be a bloody and paranoia fueled affair.
Cybermaoist dystopia or techpriest Egypt, pick one.
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>>9705846
Dystopia will be a lot more boring than you think.
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>>9705855
Cybermaoism will probably be really boring. Those guys have no creativity.
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>>9705846
>muh human nature
All historical progress has been the result of people like you being killed by revolutionaries.
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>>9705979 what did he mean by this?
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>>9705979
If you've ever taken a step outside your country, you'd realize that 4/5ths of the world possess not the least bit of imagination, wisdom, nor sensibility, and would do worse than put even your head on a pike.
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>>9705979
>All historical progress has been the result of people like you being killed by revolutionaries.
god damn nigga u brainlet as fuck
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