How does one step out of the pleb zone? And before you say Start

as long as you're asking questions like this, you will always be a pleb.

>>9645483
>How do I get in shape when I ONLY want to eat sweets?

I've no pleb attitude, I picked up reading seriously only 1-2 years ago. Any suggestions?

>>9645483
read The brothers karamazov, very easy and fun read

also obligatory kys

>>9645483
>I just think that the real world is boring enough already.
This is a subjective illusion. The world is endlessly fascinating.

Sounds like you don't really want to get into literature. Stop letting people you don't know on an imageboard dictate what's acceptable for you to like.

>>9645483
I'm in you're boat OP but j have a question to ask everyone I'm currently reading (and loving) Paradise Lost but what should I read next? I was thinking the Epic of Gilgamesh or Treasure Island

>>9645483
>I find them unbearable
nevergonnamakeit.jpg

>select all books

Iliad Odyssey Aenied, 18th century English novels, 19th century French, Russians, Modernists.

If you really want self-improvement and to grow you have to teach yourself to find value in intellectual challenge. Good literature isn't just there to entertain.

>>9645483
>know that I find them unbearable
Sorry, but you're already in the pleb zone.

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>>9645483
ETERNAL PLEB

>>9645709
>How does one step out of the pleb zone?

Hey, at least the OP can read! Right?

>>9645483
Damn, you really are a pleb. That bitch got no titties or ass. At least gotta have one.

>>9645483

That's a very small bathing suit. I think she maybe got the kid's size by mistake? Shame they couldn't find her anything better to wear for the photoshoot!

>Greeks
>boring

I take it you have never even tried them. Which plays or poems did you attempt to read? Playwrights if you can't remember specific names.

>>9645483
>Start with the Greeks, know that I find them unbearable Not saying they're bad, it's just that I can't force myself to read them.
You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink.

>>9645483
Find a genre that's readable to you and start there. You don't have to devour the entirety of ancient Greek tragedys and philosophy, or the entire Western canon to start reading what you like.

If you take /lit/'s advice you'll not wnjoy reading, won't pay attention or remember anything and will become an intellectualoid LARPer just as them.

TLDR: this board is a cesspool.

>>9646173
That is a decent ass, my good man.

>>9645483
Then don't start with the Greeks. But, you should realize that you are destined to be a pleb.

>>9645589
>The world is endlessly fascinating.
This is a subjective illusion. The world lacks intrinsic evaluative properties.

>>9645483

Lit is full of poor insecure LARPing pseudo-intellectuals. The trash opinions you see littering all the threads on this board are not ironic. Read only books that interest you. Read every day to increase your attention span and ability to abstract meaning from stories. Challenge yourself with meaningful but increasingly difficult books while ignoring time sink meme books. Find smart people you respect and ask them for recommendations. Only come to /lit/ to buttblast frauds and communist baristas.

Philip K Dick, Flowers for Algernon, 1984, Brave New World

>>9646651
Good job anon

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>>9645483

>And before you say Start with the Greeks, know that I find them unbearable Not saying they're bad, it's just that I can't force myself to read them.

Most of the really choice stuff you're gonna learn about Plato is done through secondary lit. The main Platonic corpus is important but you are going to be relying on that secondary lit even more.

You've been going about this wrong. Just keep reading.

You will always be a pleb I think
But who cares? Internet autists shouldn't define your likes/dislikes, go ahead and be a pleb

>>9645483

stop worrying about the pleb zone

if you read the greeks for any reason other than being genuinely interested and motivated to do so, then you might as well have not read them at all

why don't you just read for fun? read what you want to read. eventually, you might be led towards "higher" literature. if you're not, then maybe you weren't meant to be - that's ok

>>9647127
stfu pleb. this kind of mothering is what has produced the millennial swineherd.

>>9646630
but he has drank, and it doesn't agree with him

>>9645483
Higher literature is a meme. Don't fall for it. It's just some normal people who want to jerk each other of for being so smart. In my opinion you are smarter if you inform yourself about any STEM subjects, or learn any interesting skills like maintaining your car instead of this bullshit that has no real value for you.

Also, don't force yourself to read books in which the authors try to make a point to be as hard to read as possible.

>>9647620

>Higher literature is a meme. Don't fall for it.

t. frustrated brainlet

Stop crying and git gud.

>>9645483
http://www.cosmoetica.com/TOP.htm

>>9647620
ARCHAIC TORSO OF APOLLO

We cannot know his legendary head
with eyes like ripening fruit. And yet his torso
is still suffused with brilliance from inside,
like a lamp, in which his gaze, now turned to low,

gleams in all its power. Otherwise
the curved breast could not dazzle you so, nor could
a smile run through the placid hips and thighs
to that dark center where procreation flared.

Otherwise this stone would seem defaced
beneath the translucent cascade of the shoulders
and would not glisten like a wild beast’s fur:

would not, from all the borders of itself,
burst like a star: for here there is no place
that does not see you. You must change your life.

Great meme.

>>9647643
Has it ever helped you in the real world that you read the Odyssey?

If not, it's just for entertainment. You can also get that with Science Fiction and Fantasy, the only difference is that the authors try to make the text easily readable, lowering the effort you have to make to understand it.

>>9647650
I dodged jail time by quoting Sailing to Byzantium, so tes

>>9647106
this x1000

people who say the greeks aren't boring for a beginner are uni students who got spoonfed all the interesting secondary literature IMO

>>9647650
Not the Odyssey, but it helped me in the real world when I read Chekhov's stories and realized that I was stuck in one of the idiotic passive aggressive relationships that he described with impeccable accuracy.

>>9647658
but why the need for jerking off? If something is useful just recommend it, it's not like people get exposed to these kind of books often, so they can't find them.

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>>9647650

>Has it ever helped you in the real world that you read the Odyssey?

Why are you delimiting the entirety of "higher literature" to that one single work? How do you expect anon to honestly approach mental gymnastics this ludicrous?

Stop making private excuses to yourself publicly. If you don't want to read then don't - no one is forcing you to - but to expect anon to humour you and tell you that your intellectual laziness is anything but is simply not going to happen: git gud or git rekt, brainlet.

>>9647031
This.

>>9645483
With that sort of mentality, you are doomed to remain a pleb.

>>9647674
Yeah I cherrypicked the example, didn't realize that.

Do you have anything to recommend me which could change my mind if I read it?

>>9647670
Personally I don't believe how most people nowadays try to teach people Lit, but there are definitely distinctions between lower and higher lit, and you can't just treat it like a pill and expect instant synchronization with the message.

For example, look at the poem below by Robinson Jeffers which - with powerful images and rhythm - describes man in a misanthropic manner and provides no 'answers' in the definite sense. Some people reading this will feel despair. Others will start becoming environmentalists. Some wackos might turn into the next Unabomber. And some might see the last lines as a creed to stand by and set forth into the human race with renewed vigor to bear suffering. Yet, none of those things matter - because the poem is still descriptive of some part of the human condition and does so beautifully - even though the world is, at large, not necessarily built like this. It shows you this part as an object that you can respond to, but does not dictate your reaction to the object. It also provides enough narrative twists to not be definite.

Such things cannot be given, which, in a way, makes them useless even though they stake out one side of humanity - but they can only be recognized.

ORIGINAL SIN

The man-brained and man-handed ground-ape, physically
The most repulsive of all hot-blooded animals
Up to that time of the world: they had dug a pitfall
And caught a mammoth, but how could their sticks and stones
Reach the life in that hide? They danced around the pit, shrieking
With ape excitement, flinging sharp flints in vain, and the stench of their bodies
Stained the white air of dawn; but presently one of them
Remembered the yellow dancer, wood-eating fire
That guards the cave-mouth: he ran and fetched him, and others
Gathered sticks at the wood’s edge; they made a blaze
And pushed it into the pit, and they fed it high, around the mired sides
Of their huge prey. They watched the long hairy trunk
Waver over the stifle trumpeting pain,
And they were happy.

Meanwhile the intense color and nobility of sunrise,
Rose and gold and amber, flowed up the sky. Wet rocks were shining, a little wind
Stirred the leaves of the forest and the marsh flag-flowers; the soft valley between the low hills
Became as beautiful as the sky; while in its midst, hour after hour, the happy hunters
Roasted their living meat slowly to death.

These are the people.
This is the human dawn. As for me, I would rather

Be a worm in a wild apple than a son of man.
But we are what we are, and we might remember
Not to hate any person, for all are vicious;
And not be astonished at any evil, all are deserved;
And not fear death; it is the only way to be cleansed.

>>9645483
>guys how do i become cool?????
"oh well if you do cool things you'll be cool"
>oh uh b-but i dont wanna do that

the fact that you're posting on an anonymous image board searching for meaning tells us everything we need to know about you

kys

>>9647473
He has drank and he prefers Monster and tendies.

>>9647735
This is different what we got forced to read in school as literature (which gave me an instinctive hate towards the subject). I can dig this. Time to go to the library again

>>9647650

>Has it ever helped you in the real world that you read the Odyssey?

Yes it has because the Stoics reference it constantly.

>>9645483
Then it simply wasn't meant to be anon.

>>9645483
Start with some /lit/ lite stuff like A Clockwork Orange or Fahrenheit 451 or Brave New World if you like science fiction and slowly work into the true patrician material. Tbh senpai anyone who tells you to kys for not liking classics or the greeks has their head up their own ass and should be disregarded. Some people just won't enjoy that sort of thing

>>9647735
That doesn't even rhyme

Other options apart from reading include, using amphetamines, or going to a military or strict religious school.

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>>9645500
underrated

But really OP quit being a literary fat-ass.

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>>9646651
>this is your brain on postmodernism

The only way to escape the pleb zone is to leave this awful pleb filled thread. Jesus christ. I have no idea why half of you don't just browse r/books instead. At least there you'll have more likeminded individuals to circlejerk with.


>>9645483
That said, if you really cannot make it through the Greeks you really are just a pleb. Just read fantasy and science fiction if you want to, but don't pretend that you're any better than the average person. I have no idea how people can find Greek literature anything but sublime and enjoyable.

>>9645483
Read "Mein Kampf" by the Führer

>>9648675
>don't pretend that you're any better than the average person

I'm glad you're not pretending.

what's the shortest/ most efficient way to "start with the greeks?"

I just want to get the barebones of it since even though it's enjoyable there are other things I want to read too, and I imagine the flowcharts that exist are more than that

>>9648631
Poems don't have to rhyme. It's about the pictures and the rythm

>>9648827
Oh it's one of the /lit classics: The "b-but you're not any better either!" argument. How original. Whether or not I am any better is besides the point. All that matters is that I'm at least not a pseud that disregards the classics and foundations of literature and culture.

It's simple, really. If you don't enjoy literature then don't read it. But please do not become another poster on this board that pretends to like literature even though he only reads Gene Wolfe and G.R.R Martin. We have enough of those already, and there's also a containment thread for that.

>>9647620
Utter pleb.

This is a typical STEM fanboy. Don't fall for his shit.

>>9648879
Iliad
Odyssey
Plato: Republic, Phaedo, Timaeus
Aristotle
These are the essentials. You are going to miss A LOT of references.

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>>9648631

>>9648944
>>9649675
wat

>>9645483
How do you feel about philosophy?

>>9645483
you're not gonna make it, dog.

>>9646637
That's not an ass, that's lordosis

>>9650073
That's not lordosis, that's wonky photoshop.
Look at her stomach before her arm, are arm, then her back. The proportions are fucked up

>>9645483
>Are there any good books that will help make a transition to actual literature?
Start with other media then. Go watch Gladiator, Excalibur (1981), Braveheart or Conan the Barbarian. Go read some comics/manga, Berserk or Vagabond or Vinland Saga. You might eventually garner an interest in classic myth through something like these if you can't bring yourself to just dive into them at the start.

>>9650097
I think her body's just weird and she doesn't eat or workout. Don't know why I'm being so critical, she's hotter than any girl I've fucked

>>9645500
>IIFYM

duh

>>9647031
Perfect

You have to go back

>>9647650
> guy who hasn't read Plato

>>9649830
Why would it rhyme?

>>9645500
By snorting amphetamines, of course

>>9648734
Came here to post this he lays out the framework for modern society and basically if you arent red pilled you are a pleb.

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>>9645483
>I just think that the real world is boring enough already.

This says so much about you I'm not sure you can be saved OP. You live in interesting times, are fortunate enough to shitpost on 4chan, but can't find the will to paddle out from the literary kiddie pool. You are 15. Maybe an exceptionally slow blooming 24. You have suckled on the teat of the Spectacle for so long you don't realize there is a cordon around your waking life. You are dying for something original and don't know how to express it. Genre fiction is death, but you wear it like a warm blanket or a pet dragon.

Start with the motherfucking Greeks, child. If you have absolutely no knowledge and need a bare bones list:

Graves: The Greek Myths
Homer: Iliad, Odyssey
Plato: Euthyphro, Apology, Crito, Phaedo
Epictetus: Enchiridion
Aristotle: Nicomachean Ethics

Skipping the Greeks and reading ahead to KJV Bible, the Enlightenment and beyond will just leave you spinning your wheels. To be accomplished, you must do work. There are no shortcuts to the palace of the patricians.

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>>9654017

>You have suckled on the teat of the Spectacle for so long you don't realize there is a cordon around your waking life.

Ease up on the kid. You don't need to open with an orbital nuke. Lines like these should be ten posts deep.

>>9654038
It's all in good fun anon. OP should know I was not serious. There is no such thing as a palace of the patricians. OP pls don't be hurt I'm sorry.

Greeks, Kant, Wittgenstein, and them are all abstraction anyway. Really when you get down to it all the learning in the world comes this: gratitude. That mindfulness the eastern yogi berras talk about. Mastery over the self is being grateful and kind to others. The false way is inheriting doctrine from Confucius, or the unexamined Catholic meme. You will only get to a place of intellectual satisfaction by personal sacrifice and pain. This is why people consider your first post to be so silly.

>>9654017
Lel

>>9645483
4 WORDS
START

>>9649140
I'd add a tl;dr on the greek gods first since they show up so much
also your plato order is fucked, the trial & death of socrates is both significant and easy to read, so do that before republic

>>9645483
>Finding the Greeks unbearable
Just read the first 3 books of The Odyssey, come back and attempt to tell us this again. I understand where you're coming from though, I tried to read Plato when I first heard start with the Greeks, big mistake on my part.

>>9655328
Is the Odyssey better than the Iliad? Because I found the Iliad to be unreadable senpai.

>>9654671
WITH

>>9645483
I'll give you an actual answer because this thread doesn't have any.

You just have to ask questions while you read. That's all there is to it. Ask yourself what expectations are being set up by the book, and predict what will happen. Notice patterns and ask what they might suggest/mean. If you don't understand something, take note of it. Take a few minutes after reading a chapter to think about what you read and ask some questions. Write them down if you want, and go back to look at them when you're done with the book. You don't have to have any answers, even when you finished the book, but just by asking questions you get better at asking the right questions.

Eventually if you do this enough you'll be able to engage with a work on multiple levels (not just with the plot or characters), and stuff that seems mindnumbingly boring will become interesting. When you ask the right questions, you can be engaged by basically anything, no matter how inaccessible it is.

Oh and if this still fucking sucks, then just get into art film first. You'll learn the same abilities and you can come back to lit later.

>>9655745
THE

>>9656773
KANGZ

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>>9656990
OF ROME.

START WITH THE KINGS OF ROME.

Lit in a nutshell

>>9645483
I'm not the only one who thinks the front of her body, everything right of her arm and below the clothing thing, looks real weird, right?

>>9645500
T3 T4 DNP.

but reading is for faggots

>>9645483
Either start with the Greeks or stop judging yourself on the standards of a mongolian basket weaving forum

Cyclopes, demigods, war, incest, talking animals, Atlantis and shit that's written poetically and without fluff by some insane man thousands of years ago is boring to you?

the pleb zone isn't real. it was just a made-up thing to keep people with weak, gullible minds from being comfortable with themselves so the advertising industry can use this insecurity to sell various products. if you want to get the girl, make sure you use our shaving cream!

This thread seems to lose replies everyday I see it. What's happening here?

>>9659875
>This thread has been around for 4 days

Fucking hell. Just kill it already.

>>9647620
I fell hard for this meme and ended up in a field with shifty ethics where people regularly cheated on certifications and most people left the field within a decade. I was taught how to cheat and taught not to cheat by the same people. However not cheating also helped made me a burden on people. I could settle for a lower down position but I feel envious and jealous and not as good as a provider and cheated and weak. I fucked up my head with sheer cognitive dissonance since I am a moralfaggot.

After falling for the STEM meme I turned to philosophy, which I need to understand higher literature to understand, simply because I got all fucked in the head with cognitive dissonance. I also wanted to understand more of the ideas underlying society. Higher literature seemed like a gateway to both.

I'm a believer in that meme that STEM type subjects teach you how to live, not why to live. There is a big chunk of learning about the world they leave out.

I also genuinely just find the stuff pretty entertaining because I keep having aha moments where I realised I was finally reading something I had heard references to before.

>>9655348
I thought it was, it was more adventure than action if that's more your pace.

Also no chapter dedicated to listing off everybody that fucking was part of the Trojan war.

>>9650139
This is good advice and is largely how I got interested in mythology. Also playing Civilization.

Once you hear about all these myths indirectly, once you actually read the source materials they become more interesting on merit of you being able to realise just how many works they have touched.

>>9662177
>>9650139
Why are 16 year olds browsing /lit/

>>9645483
brappity brap!
i want to smell her crack

>>9645483
>Horny for Thorny
Back to 2012 /tv/ with you

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>>9645483