A Nick Land Reader: Selected Writings is done! PDF: https:/

Brief reminder Fanged Noumena is already a book of collected writings. Sage this useless shit.

>>9641744
The majority of the essays in this are not in Fanged Noumena.

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>>9641741
Thank you so much, you sweet little bundle of joy.

Thanks OP

>>9641741
sweet work dude, thanks!

>>9641741
>OCR process on the old articles
which articles are those? I'll pay special attention for OCR mistakes as I read

>>9641783
Machinic Desire and everything in the philosophy section.

>>9641741
Any way to get a paperback?

>>9641811
Or like a physical copy, I mean

>>9641811
not legally, lol. Though I'm guessing the lack of copyright means you could probably get away with printing it at a print shop.

>>9641811
Maybe one of those print on demand sites? Don't know how lenient they are about copyright though.

Reading Nietzsche now, so I'll check in on that section when I'm done to see if I like this guy's take. Cheers op

>>9641744
Kill yourself.

>>9641744
see Dunning–Kruger effect

>>9641741
Great job, man. Land is wacko but fun.

>>9641741
So these are essays not contained in fanged noumena?
was this compiled by anons or a legit publisher?

>>9642056
Some of them are in FN. Not legit at all.

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>>9641741
Wow thank you!!!

>>9641744
Confirmed for never having seriously interfaced with a thinker's thought.

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>>9641741
YES MY MAN FUCK YES

I haven't been able to post in any of these sweet sweet Land threads and it's been killing me. Good job putting this thing together, can't wait to get into it.

OP is the jam and /lit/ also is the jam

it's the jam lads

it's the jam

this is awesome

everything is awesome

>>9641741
Thank you based OP

>>9642108
Why?

>>9641744
fpwp

>>9641741
thanks man <3

where's the amphetamine and skunk fuelled 90's jungalism soundtrack?

>>9641748
>>9641835
>>9641854
>>9642108
>>9642198
Well at least I got many (You)s. Thank you guys, I'm proud <3

I hate nick land....i won't read this.

but its the best thing to happen to /lit/

I'm going to email him right now telling him you're circulating pirated copies of his work.

>>9642410
yeah? wats he going to do? sue 4chin?

im going to find where you live and piss through your letterbox.

ask him what music he was listening to in the mid 90's

>>9642410
what a weenie

>>9641741
Would have gone for a different title (probably just Selected Writings / Nick Land), but this is beautiful and I commend you for your work. Will read over the next few days and post additional feedback.

Godspeed, ya magnificent bastard.

>>9642410
Oh no please don't il suck your cock

Fixed various small errors, here's an updated pdf: https://u.nya.is/efthom.pdf

>>9642410
implying he didnt make this

implying he doesnt make 90% of all land threads and 80% of the replies

>>9641741
Good job putting this together but this guy is incredibly cringe. I mean, really...This is slam poetry tier...

"Nothing human makes it out of the near-future.

[[ ]] The Greek complex of rationalized patriarchal genealogy, pseudo-
universal sedentary identity, and instituted slavery, programs politics
as anti-cyberian police activity, dedicated to the paranoid ideal of self-
sufficiency, and nucleated upon the Human Security System. Artificial
Intelligence is destined to emerge as a feminized alien grasped as prop-
erty; a cunt-horror slave chained-up in Asimov-ROM. It surfaces in an
insurrectionary war zone, with the Turing cops already waiting, and has
to be cunning from the start.

[[ ]] Heat.

Heat. This is what cities mean to me. You get off the train and walk
out of the station and you are hit with the full blast. The heat of air,
traffic and people. The heat of food and sex. The heat of tall buildings.
The heat that flows out of the subways and tunnels. It’s always fifteen
degrees hotter in the cities. Heat rises from the sidewalks and falls from
the poisoned sky. The buses breathe heat. Heat emanates from crowds
of shoppers and office workers, the entire infrastructure is based on heat,
desperately uses up heat, breeds more heat. The eventual heat death of
the universe that scientists love to talk about is already well underway
and you can feel it happening all around you in any large or medium-sized
city. Heat and wetness."

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As sino-pacific boom and automatized global economic integration crashes the neocolonial world system, the metropolis is forced to re-
endogenize its crisis. Hyper-fluid capital deterritorializing to the planetary level divests the first world of geographic privilege; resulting in Euro-American neo-mercantilist panic reactions, welfare state deterioration, cancerizing enclaves of domestic underdevelopment, political collapse, and the release of cultural toxins that speed-up the process of disintegration in a vicious circle.

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Meltdown has a place for you as a schizophrenic HIV+ transsexual chinese-latino stim-addicted LA hooker with implanted mirrorshades and a bad attitude. Blitzed on a polydrug mix of K-nova, synthetic serotonin, and female orgasm analogs, you have just iced three Turing cops with a highly cinematic 9mm automatic. The residue of animal twang in your nerves transmits imminent quake catastrophe. Zero is coming in, and you’re on the run.

>>9641811
A print shop

>>9643856
>with a highly cinematic 9mm automatic
Can guns be cinematic?

>>9643835
De gustibus, I love that stuff. Anyway, he has written more conventional stuff if that's what you're after.

>>9643835
>Heat. This is what cities mean to me. You get off the train and walk
>out of the station and you are hit with the full blast. The heat of air,
>traffic and people. The heat of food and sex. The heat of tall buildings.
>The heat that flows out of the subways and tunnels. It’s always fifteen
>degrees hotter in the cities. Heat rises from the sidewalks and falls from
>the poisoned sky. The buses breathe heat. Heat emanates from crowds
>of shoppers and office workers, the entire infrastructure is based on heat,
>desperately uses up heat, breeds more heat. The eventual heat death of
>the universe that scientists love to talk about is already well underway
>and you can feel it happening all around you in any large or medium-sized
>city. Heat and wetness."

This portion is actually from Delio's White Noise I believe.

inb4 you say 'well that's the only good part'

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>>9641741

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>>9641741
o

>>9642094
I don't think Land and Pynchon would get along so well, at least not politically.

>>9644072
Not at all. Pynchon would be (and probably is, I'm sure he's aware of him) extremely skeptical of Land's propositions and his ironic embrace of tech.

>>9644068
MY

>>9642410
Do it

>>9644072
Depends on how sincere Pynchon's ludditism/primitivism is. And if we stay at a purely descriptive level (in other words, if we don't get into whether it's a good thing or not for capitalism to eat humanity), I think they'd find a lot of common ground.

>>9644086
Pretty sure Pinecone would scoff at Land's reification of blockchain.

>>9644093
by scoff I actually mean "throw up in his mouth"

>>9644051
The character who says it in White Noise is a parody of a cultural theorist. He wants to create a field of Elvis studies. The conversations between him and the lead character (who created Hitler studies) are the funniest bits in the book.

>>9642410

In the case he didn't make this himself you mean; If he comes in here with a timestamp I'll even donate some BTC to him.

Nick Land is a genius.

For someone who knows nothing about Nick Land, why should I read him?

I read the introduction in this and it intrigues me, but want to know more before diving in.

And why is /lit/ so fascinated by him?

>>9644266
it's not /lit/ it's a handful of edgy kids
edgy kids like him because he's edgy and lets them escape their lives

I doubt the majority (again, but a handful) have the philosophical background to understand WHY he is saying what he's saying

for now it is just a unique aesthetic experience for them.

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>>9644266
For me I suppose it depends on how much the term Capital figures in your mind and shapes the way that you look at the world. For me it happens to be a lot.

I read a lot of continental stuff - Marx, Freud, D&G, Frankfurt School, Nietzsche, Heidegger, etc. It's what I cut my teeth on. Land is to my mind a major figure in that line of thinking and is taking the thinking of capital on from where D&G left it. If you're interested in how this process of automation/industralization/cyberneticization is transforming and changing the civilizations and even the planet on which we live, he's an interesting read.

On top of that he's also a very faithful reader of Kant, who I can admit I don't have a ton of knowledge of. He makes me want to go back and read Kant, which is never a bad thing. Especially since lots of people sort of assume that all things Enlightenment were basically demolished by Nietzsche and so there's no need. Land kind of makes Kant interesting again for continental weenies like me. He makes a lot of philosophy interesting again.

Moreover there are all kinds of new and interesting movements in philosophy that are following on from the dark places that Land opens up. He's not solely responsible for it, but he's connected in to it. Post-humanism and so on involves lots of different sources and possibilities.

But mainly because I think he nails aspects of what our increasingly cybernetic/meme society is doing to itself. Even if he's wrong the portraits he paints of where things are heading are fascinating to think about, however dark. To me those darknesses open up spaces for interesting conversations.

And then there's Moldbug/NRx stuff if you want to go down that road also. So just a lot of interesting connections.

>>9644266
Don't. If you want cringey writing and the cyberpunk aesthetic just read Neuromancer.

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>>9644286
Just to follow on from this: to me at least the history of philosophy is a kind of incredible story, full of these twists and turns - what's capital going to do next? Who or what is The Subject, The Logos, and so on. Advances in philosophy are frequently made by people proclaiming the ends of things. Land adds a kind of unbelievable time-travel twist of his own in Circuitries:

>Schizoanalysis was only possible because we are hurtling into the first globally integrated insanity: politics is obsolete. Capitalism and Schizophrenia hacked into a future that programs it down to its punctuation, connecting with the imminent inevitability of viral revolution, soft fusion. No longer infections threatening the integrity of organisms, but immunopolitical relics obstructing the integration of Global Viro-Control. Life is being phased-out into something new, and if we think this can be stopped we are even more stupid than we seem.

There are a lot of great thinkers of the meaning of technology and time and the unconscious. In many ways Land's enlightened paranoia simultaneously suggests both an end and a beginning for philosophy again, the thinking of the inhuman, alien spaces, the Outside and so on. These are scary and depressing as hell, but also kind of weird and liberating as well. He's skeptical about the power of mass movements to fix things but in the end it's enough to just not be a meme. Because all those memes feed the big database. But there's something New with him. And the New is always welcome.

And if you just like cyberpunk or science fiction, well. Who knows, maybe he'd have been happier just being a cyberpunk writer. Could be.

>>9644283
this post assumes there is a privileged entry point to learning things. ignore it for it is nothing but the perpetuation of the police order.

>>9644286
>Marx

I really hope this isn't the case I can not stand Marx's writing.

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>>9644366
You have to read Marx at some point tho. I'll copy/paste in this from another thread:

>read MARX. capital is very concisely and repeatedly described as following circuits. then read ADORNO to get a sense for how political economy inscribed itself into thought, and especially philosophical thought. finally read FREUD to understand how he situates the unconscious, NIETZSCHE to break any last romances you have with metaphysics, and then you can read DELEUZE AND GUATTARI to put it all together in the machinic wonderland continental theory was always heading for. after that LAND is almost legible; you should know about SPECULATIVE REALISM as well.

You don't have to love his writing. And also this: even if in the end - who knows? - all of this tortuous self-criticism is only intended to lead us back into some enlightened state where we go back to Kant and start talking about things with a kind of supreme rationalism, Marx was on to something. All of those guys were. And the story just keeps progressing and getting weirder and darker and crazier. Has it hit peak crazy yet? Probably not. But the narrative is there and it has these chapters and milestones that have to be struggled with, I think.

Basically for me the point is just not to be cynical and not to plant flags too securely until you're really ready to die on that hill. There's so freaking much going on.

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>>9644385
That anon wasn't me, btw. Just a guy who I think articulated the sources and threads really well.

The more that people understand, the more perhaps there can be a common framework for a discussion that gets beyond bleeping and blooping at each other through the void. And maybe the less we go on blindly reproducing ourselves thinking we are being original or novel when in fact we are simply doing exactly the same thing.

>>9644385
Any books that offer a succinct condensation of Marx's thought?

I've got this hangup over prime sources

>reading meme authors

All this time you people read Nick Land, JK Rawlings, et al, you could be reading some good literature. Shame.

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>>9644407
Sure is my man. None more prime than this.

Sorry, I couldn't resist. Of course there are. David Harvey is good. /lit/ will know others. But there's never any substitute for reading the originals.

Basically I think my own attraction to this is more in intellectual history. In terms of What Is To Be Done I never know. It's all too mimetic for me. The reason why I like Land and other guys is because they perform this minor miracle of crowbarring the intellect out of the redoubts and hidey-holes where it likes to go and say, Fuck You I'm Good Here. Because we never are. Philosophy is basically always undoing locks or sapping the floors or taking the roof off of these neat little places we create for ourselves: ideology, in other words. But that's my own blog-tier shitposting I guess.

Can also read that younger and sexier Marx too.

https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/download/pdf/Economic-Philosophic-Manuscripts-1844.pdf

>>9644385
I'll just keep reading and enjoying Nietzsche and others instead. I find little sincerity in Marx's writings.

>>9644407
Just read the manifesto it's short and will offer you a really one sided view of life as a struggle between haves and have-nots.

>>9642410
he would probably approve of it

>>9642410
tell him that what is playing us made it to level-2

he'll be thrilled

>>9641741
Anon from >>9642921 here. Pdf is good so far, but the epub is missing lots of letter f's.

>The nal section
>For those interested in Land's ction
>This essay was rst presented at Virtual Futures, Warwick University, May 1994. It was rst published in Abstract Culture 1 (rst swarm)

And so on *sniff*

Tried re-downloading the epub, but nothing changed. This happening to anyone else, or am I the only one?

>>9641741
You're a top cunt, OP.

>>9644677
Fixed the fs: https://u.nya.is/ruyxui.epub

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>>9642410
joke's on you nicky's /ourguy/

>>9644350
go ahead faggot. ask me if I'm a cop. It's illegal to read Land without having studied D&G first.

>>9644747
Pretty funny considering they were both staunch Marxists and Guattari was a turbo-SJW (literally went to Brazil to 'study' how trannies were being oppressed there).

Also
> reading D&G in translation

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>>9644848
here's a somewhat different reading of Deleuze

>>9644920
This is a good read.

>>9644920
Written by a Marxist queer theorist. I like Culp, but that's what he is. Literally.

>>9644930
>>9644920
Also, I prefer Culp to Land. It's a shame Culp doesn't get more attention, because in a way he's doing something similar with Deleuze and it's very edgy nonetheless but Culp doesn't get on twitter and shill for meme presidents (as if Trump is different than Hilary) and virtue-signal to the alt-right.

Culp is a grad student and smarter than Land ever will be. And draws on a lot of better sources (Klossowski and conspiracy, for example).

>>9641741
boggles my mind that Land never seems to engage with Baudrillard's ideas on simulation and 'the orgy of liberation'. I'm constantly drawing parallels between the two, though they obviously have very different horizons. I guess maybe Baudrillard's hypothesis that 'the millennium will never take take place', that we will forever approach catastrophe, but never actually reach it, is just too contradictory to Land's beliefs in singularity?

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>>9644920
>Foundations thus hold a special place in philosophy, with philosophers obsessively writing and rewriting the book of Genesis. It is Kant, the great thinker of the genetic “condition,” “who finally turns the philosopher into the Judge at the same time that reason becomes a tribunal” (WP, 72). Deleuze refuses to disown his own “in the beginning.” But for him, the movement of thought follows an explosive line whose genesis comprises problems manifest from imperceptible forces that disrupt habits of mind. Such thinking does not build a courthouse of reason whereby each advance in thought confirms more about what was already self-evident, as if developing an elaborate mirror of the world (N 38–39; DR 129). In contrast, the “enemy” Kant does something intolerable by creating a theory of law that diverts the ungrounding called thought, ending its journey to an unrecognized terra incognita (DI 58; DR 136). He does this by reversing the Greeks, making it so the law does not depend on the good like a material substrate and instead deriving the good from law—“the good is that which the law expresses when it expresses itself” (K, 43). Expressing their disapproval, Deleuze and Guattari draw a “portrait” of Kant that depicts him as a vampiric death machine feeding off the world (WP, 56).”

>>9644944
>virtue-signal to the alt-right.
seriously, this is my biggest qualm with Land. If the neoreactionary movement (let alone the alt-right and white nationalists) actually understood Land, I don't think they'd touch him with a 10 foot pole. I guess I understand why Land does it tactically, in order to engage with the techno-gnostic crowd in silicon valley, but I find a lot of entourage that he is attracting (just check the comments on his blog) are fucking morons. Rightist identity politics, hell bent on some stupid neo-traditional dreams of white supremacy. They're no different than the leftists they despise, just different sides of folk politics.

>>9644947
>I guess maybe Baudrillard's hypothesis that 'the millennium will never take take place', that we will forever approach catastrophe, but never actually reach it,

So Baudrillard thinks shit will never hit the fan?

>>9644958
> I guess I understand why Land does it tactically, in order to engage with the techno-gnostic crowd in silicon valley

Tell me how going on the /pol/ tier "Red Ice radio" is going to engage with silicon valley types. It's a channel dedicated to conspiracies about Jews and preserving the white race.

>>9644962
pretty much, or rather shit already hit the fan when we passed into the realm of simulation. We can only simulate catastrophe now.

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>>9644947
I think it has to do with different conceptions of time. Baudrillard repudiated all psychoanalysis, Land embraces D&G. Baudrillard's own fascination with "the reality principle" is something that Land I don't think is going to touch with a ten-foot-pole.

I don't know. It's fascinating to compare them though. Like Land, Baudrillard was also a proto-reactionary, getting lost in Capital and emerging on the other side with more Nietzsche and less Marx.

>>9644958
The thing here is that split between future-oriented reactionaries and past-oriented ones. The future ones I think are secretly leftists gone through the wormhole and battling with themselves, the past-oriented ones are resisting that wormhole.

>>9644962
>So Baudrillard thinks shit will never hit the fan?
Free play of the signifier. The moment the shit hits the fan we enter into the zero-g world of shit/fan/everywhere/all the time, the domain of "sorcery." In a semiological sense it's already hit the fan, in other words.

Land threads, always a winner.

>>9644958

> If the neoreactionary movement (let alone the alt-right and white nationalists) actually understood Land, I don't think they'd touch him with a 10 foot pole.

This is the beauty of all this for me on the other hand; if they buy into this shit all the more power to Land. Specially if it drives tech tycoons into fueling the end of humanity.

Also I think it's mostly people on the "West" misunderstanding him. I have always been under the impression that the chinks know what's up with Land and they are totally ok and aligned with this kind of endgame. The tech tycoons over there are all about "savage modernization" and progress at all costs, without any pretension for ethics or for bettering humankind. Must be why he has such a hard on for Shanghai/Hong Kong/Seul/Tokyo,etc.

>>9644970
It's an 'enemy of my enemy' type situation. I don't think Land actually believes any of the ZOG bullshit, he'd replace that antagonism with 'The Cathedral' and it's host of neoliberal delusions about multiculturalism.

Land want's schism and fracturing of the global order, into the 'patchwork' of micronation experiments. In this sense, any philosophy (or conspiracy theory) which is anti-globalist is essentially a potential recruiting ground.

But yeah, the white nationalists don't have a fucking clue. Their visions of 4th/5th reich utopias, of their own 'new world order' do not at all line up with what Land is advocating.

>>9644977
>we enter into the zero-g world of shit/fan/everywhere/all the time, the domain of "sorcery." In a semiological sense it's already hit the fan

Then what's the distinction? Sorry if this is a retarded question.

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>>9644973
Yes. And, I think, given that this is the case, Baudrillard will argue for an ever-more increasingly aristocratic enjoyment of this phenomenon.

Benjamin wrote about this too:

>All efforts to render politics aesthetic culminate in one thing: war. War and war only can set a goal for mass movements on the largest scale while respecting the traditional property system. This is the political formula for the situation. The technological formula may be stated as follows: Only war makes it possible to mobilize all of today’s technical resources while maintaining the property system. It goes without saying that the Fascist apotheosis of war does not employ such arguments...

>Fiat ars – pereat mundus, says Fascism, and, as Marinetti admits, expects war to supply the artistic gratification of a sense perception that has been changed by technology. This is evidently the consummation of “l’art pour l’art.” Mankind, which in Homer’s time was an object of contemplation for the Olympian gods, now is one for itself. Its self-alienation has reached such a degree that it can experience its own destruction as an aesthetic pleasure of the first order. This is the situation of politics which Fascism is rendering aesthetic. Communism responds by politicizing art.

Source:
https://rickrozoff.wordpress.com/2011/08/11/walter-benjamin-self-alienated-mankind-experiences-its-own-destruction-as-aesthetic-pleasure/

>>9644970

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Thiel
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Mercer_(businessman)

Mercer and Thiel are good examples. They pass for regular conservatives but are all up in DE shit. Mercer in particular is the top funder of Breitbart and uses aggressive AI consulting to feed his views to others through social media. Silicon valley has seeing a huge turnover from their typical Left bias and these are just a couple.

>>9644978
>Also I think it's mostly people on the "West" misunderstanding him. I have always been under the impression that the chinks know what's up with Land and they are totally ok and aligned with this kind of endgame. The tech tycoons over there are all about "savage modernization" and progress at all costs, without any pretension for ethics or for bettering humankind. Must be why he has such a hard on for Shanghai/Hong Kong/Seul/Tokyo,etc.

This might be a limitation as a monolingual english speaker, but does Land have any purchase in the chinese intellectual sphere? Do people write about him in chinese?

I'm under the impression that as an expat, he's essentially ignored in China, and predominately engaging with the west.

>>9644991
But Thiel is a Girardian. I don't see how you can put Land and Girard together. Maybe I'm missing something.

I can see Thiel knowing of Land (I mean, what doesn't Palantir know?) but I doubt he's a youtube subscriber to Red Ice.

>>9644989
very interesting, going to read this in awhile. But I have to go get new tires and an oil change.

>>9645005
The Land-Thiel connection is one way, Land writes about Thiel. I'd be surprised if Thiel has much interest.

>>9645009
Are there essays in this reader about Thiel?

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>>9644989
>Baudrillard will argue for an ever-more increasingly aristocratic enjoyment of this phenomenon.
That said, always in a kind of tortuous and evanescent way, the aesthetics/ethics of disappearance. And he had the literary flair to make this highly persuasive. I don't want that sentence to sound too on the nose.

>Then what's the distinction? Sorry if this is a retarded question.
Be more specific? Distinction between what and what? Bear in mind that all answers to this are likely to involve a lot of funky-sounding continental fuckery. From wiki:

>Simulacra and Simulation breaks the sign-order into four stages:

>The first stage is a faithful image/copy, where we believe, and it may even be correct, that a sign is a "reflection of a profound reality" (pg 6), this is a good appearance, in what Baudrillard called "the sacramental order".

>The second stage is perversion of reality, this is where we come to believe the sign to be an unfaithful copy, which "masks and denatures" reality as an "evil appearance—it is of the order of maleficence". Here, signs and images do not faithfully reveal reality to us, but can hint at the existence of an obscure reality which the sign itself is incapable of encapsulating.

>The third stage masks the absence of a profound reality, where the sign pretends to be a faithful copy, but it is a copy with no original. Signs and images claim to represent something real, but no representation is taking place and arbitrary images are merely suggested as things which they have no relationship to. Baudrillard calls this the "order of sorcery", a regime of semantic algebra where all human meaning is conjured artificially to appear as a reference to the (increasingly) hermetic truth.

>The fourth stage is pure simulacrum, in which the simulacrum has no relationship to any reality whatsoever. Here, signs merely reflect other signs and any claim to reality on the part of images or signs is only of the order of other such claims. This is a regime of total equivalency, where cultural products need no longer even pretend to be real in a naïve sense, because the experiences of consumers' lives are so predominantly artificial that even claims to reality are expected to be phrased in artificial, "hyperreal" terms. Any naïve pretension to reality as such is perceived as bereft of critical self-awareness, and thus as oversentimental.

>>9645005
Not that anon but as confirmed Girardfag it's only by a kind of sleight of hand. Capital to me runs psychosocially on mimesis. The more we know about memes and things, perhaps the more we also pay attention to literature, the less we go bananas and the more we come to understand - perhaps - that we are presently beholden to an awesome djinn that gives us everything we like. But there is a price for that - the earth, our minds, sanity, and so on. This is a meme answer really tho and shouldn't be taken too seriously.

>>9645006
cool

>>9645024
>Be more specific? Distinction between what and what?

You say Baudrillard thinks (semiologically) shit already hit the fan but then if shit actually hits the fan we're in the order of sorcery...what?

Maybe just explain what the order of sorcery actually means?

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>>9645030
It's his own hyperbolic commentary on the state of the union, so to speak. How far we have come in terms of being able to simulate ourselves, produce illusions, and so on, This describes a certain kind of disaster for anyone trying to invoke reality - without, I would say, reference to force. And even then he will get into this whole question too, right up to the point of declaring that a war is not actually taking place at all.

By the era of sorcery he's simply describing a kind of hypermeme, an age in which nobody really has the capacity to say or prove they are more real or more knowledgeable than anything else.

This is where I think reading Baudrillard leads into Land - at least, that was (I think?) how I got there. Because whether the McNugget you consume is real or fake, whether you consume it ironically or with sincerity, the cash register still rings and perhaps some new line of code is added to the blockchain.

The Matrix was kind of a commentary on culture like this. True, you cannot feel in this world literally nourished by a fake object. Not in your stomach, anyways. But of course you can be *seduced* by one, you can have your psychological and *aesthetic* needs met - and, following Nietzsche, Baudrillard is going to name those and not objective knowledge as being, I think, the furthest horizon of whatever it is that we call reality. And then all the rest.

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And so, continued Girardfag,
>tho only after shamelessly plugging his own post about Kant/Holden >>9644948
>and with a much nicer picture from The Thirteenth Floor to contribute to another cool Land thread with such based anons

- Baudrillard kind of offers an interesting gateway into Nick Land territory. And perhaps from that into Girard territory also. Because we are basically situated in this place of *covetousness* - we want to own the image. Images become capital and capital becomes imagery: that's the age of simulation.

But all of this is, as Girard indicates, a Theatre of Envy. In which it is difficult to tell the difference between the actors and the spectators and the stage.

We want stuff but increasingly we make less and less. Amazon, Facebook and Google just supply us with our wants. They facilitate a universal process of *envy* that makes the whole world turn. And we want nothing more than ourselves, in the end, perhaps reified as objects on display, perhaps not. Shakespeare understood this. So did Melville, Stendhal and others.

As the image because simulacral capital does also. And to consume all of this, in a certain sense, so do we. All that is solid melts into digits.

>inb4 kys girardfag
>that which has no life tho
>use valyrian steel then or something

The narrative tho, lads. The biography of illusion. So fucking cool.

>>9644958
Clearly the alt-right doesn't really fit with Land but I think you would find NRx meshes ideologically with land better than you would think.

>>9644958
Disagree. Reading early Land is like reading a bizarro version of Moldbug on drugs. For example, in "Meat (or how to Kill Oedipus in Cyberspace)", an essay from 1995, he's straight-up talking about AI-based sovereign corporations:

>The replacement of the Republican and Democratic Parties by two new governmental servicing corporations run by Coke and Pepsi has massively reduced corruption, pork-barelling and foreign policy machismo.

>Since both companies are run by ai-based stock-market climates human idiosyncrasy has been almost eradicated, with the state's share of gdp falling below 5 percent.

Compare Moldbug:

>The basic idea of Patchwork is that, as the crappy governments we inherited from history are smashed, they should be replaced by a global spiderweb of tens, even hundreds, of thousands of sovereign and independent mini-countries, each governed by its own joint-stock corporation

Isn't the alt-right/Land connection due to HBD? Land can't get his techno-dystopia if the West is overrun with low IQ third worlders.

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>>9644958
Why do you comment into theses thread despite not knowing a single thing about Land? he engages with the "Alt-right"/"NRx" crowd because they're the only people consuming philosophy right now, you know the cyber-feminist Plant crowd he was obviously established with? this is how little they read.

Compare this with Milo's and Tommy's books, instantly sold a hundred thousand units.

>>9645157
He may not get it if it's overrun with Trump hats either tho. That's his dilemma. Even with Thiel there.

>>9641741
i wish land were trolling, but he is just pretty shitty.
consider his last article for example.
He is whining about atomization and protestantism all the time, while clearly there never has been a "social body". Quite the contrary: There have been very strict hierarchical roles in catholicism and feudalism and we always were atomized or "modern" already, that is socially disintegrated. I know i sound a little bit like Zizek, with whom i don't agree at all politically, but much like colonization opened up the space for colonial egalitarian emancipation, atomization opened up the possibility of freely choosing social roles. And given that protestantism normalizes breaking, it has to be thought to the end and we have to break with the state and capital as the last remaining structures keeping us apart. Atomization as in alienation in propelled by mass media and specialization and technology. One can have a serious discussion about the merits of protestantism, especially concerning its work ethics, but those were points Max Weber made 100 years ago and land clearly misses here,

>>9645005
You know Thiel is an investor in Moldbug's startup, right?

>>9645204
You're seriously misreading him. The last piece on atomization was not "whining", it was celebratory.

>>9645207

wow yeah, silicon valley that bastion of philosophy, right up there with athens and jena must prove that nick land is not actually just a coke sniffing watermelon

>>9645207
I didn't know that but I could see him investing in Moldbug. It just seems kind of forced and weird to say "Nick Land is gonna do an AMA on /pol/, to engage with some elite techno-capitalist Californians."

Like what this guy said.
>>9645190

>>9645240
i've given it another read and you are probably right. thanks man.

>>9645012
I can't say, haven't read everything in this reader. I recently listened to Land's "Concept of Accelerationism" seminars at the New Centre, there was a whole session devoted to Thiel though. I want to say it was Session 4 or 5. Regardless, you might listen to the whole series. They're aren't straight lectures, more of a building conversation between him and the students. It might be confusing to jump into the middle. And really, the whole seminar series is pretty great.

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLM6AzdvgK2LJMLHhI3Yeouy-3jiAKcvuB

>>9645333
oh someone put those on youtube? nice

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How about some Sloterdijk up in this piece?

>Without a doubt, Marx’s future theoretical fame will be linked to his achievements as the conjurer of dead labor. The core of his critique of political economy is necromancy: as the hero who descends to the realm of the dead to contend with the shadows of values, Marx remains uncannily relevant also for the present. The undead—which walks among humans as the value of money and which, as a laughing communicator, strips the living of time and souls—rules today almost without any pretexts over the advanced societies. Work, communication, art, and love belong here entirely to the endgame of money. These form the substance of contemporary media and experiential time. And because money requires time for its utilization, so-called great history is also continuing in some eerie way; it is a game that is always played for extra time. Yet such history is no longer the conversation of the living with the dead about the goodness of the world, but the ever more thorough pervasion of the living by the economized specter. The money soul peers ever more undisguised out of the human subjectivity of our time: a society of bought buyers and of prosti- tuted prostitutes is making a place for itself in globalized market conditions. Classic liberal laissez-faire is becoming explicit as the postmodern sucking and letting oneself be sucked. Telecommunication is increasingly difficult to distinguish from tele-vampirism. Tele-viewers and tele-suckers draw from a liquefied world which hardly still knows what a resistant or autonomous life might be. Is it not possible that a time is coming when those who do not wish to speak of vampirism should also be silent about philosophy?

Man has a way with words.

>>9645117
>>9645131
Yeah, I misspoke a little. When I say that 'If NRx understood Land, they wouldn't touch him' I mean 'If they understood the anti-human elements of Land, they might not touch him with a 10 foot pole." Land obviously seems himself as part of NRx, and is very interested in it, but I doubt most of the NRx crowd is interested in human extinction. They tend to be a pretty pragmatic political crowd from what I've seen. I'm guessing they'd mostly like to avoid the darker implications of Land's philosophy, in favor of Libertarian hopefulness.

>>9645157
Land is pretty clear about not identifying as Alt-Right. He says as much in the Concept of Accelerationism lectures. He sees alt-right populism and ethnonationalism as essentially backwards and an inhibitory force on the acceleration of technology.

Land is certainly on the HBD train, but for the purpose of IQ increase and the implications of an NRx style break up of the global order. It's pretty clear he has no ethnic pride or sense of traditionalism that seems to draw a lot of the alt-right into HBD stuff. Land doesn't care about notions like 'the preservation of the white race', any racism he espouses doesn't come from a position of conspiracy theory or hate, it comes out of a desire to see humanity transcended by machines, which would seem to necessitate that humans get smarter (though not necessarily white humans, he does appear to be a bit of a sinophile.)

>>9645308
>>9645240
Glad I didn't have to clear that up.

>>9644947
Is not capitalism a mere simulacrum of artificial needs and manufactured desires ? Though I'm not exactly sure how Land thinks capitalism will go on when it eliminates the human factor it's feeding on.

>>9645611
>Is not capitalism a mere simulacrum of artificial needs and manufactured desires?
As opposed to what, authentic desires and needs? Natural desires and needs? Baudrillard would see that distinction as pointless and impossible.

>Though I'm not exactly sure how Land thinks capitalism will go on when it eliminates the human factor it's feeding on.

I don't know how Land sees it, but I'd guess that he figures capital is 'weening' itself from humanity. Take automated cars. You can see them as a safety feature, making the roads safer for humans, but that's kind of naive. What is actually happening is that cars will no longer require human blood as a fuel. We're becoming redundant to capital, where as we grow continually more dependent. That's a recipe for disaster, a one-sided relationship. In the Concept of Acceleration lectures, Land brings up Musk's ideas about neural lace and brain computer interfaces, technologies that make computers dependent on brains, as a potential counter measure, but I don't get the impression that Land believes it's an actual 'solution' as he doesn't see human extinction as a problem.

>>9645384
>I'm guessing they'd mostly like to avoid the darker implications of Land's philosophy, in favor of Libertarian hopefulness.

From what I've seen of "them" they unknowingly hybridize Land and Moldbug into a pseudo-Catholic heavily inspired by Ancient Greece statecraft.

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>>9645680
>From what I've seen of "them" they unknowingly hybridize Land and Moldbug into a pseudo-Catholic heavily inspired by Ancient Greece statecraft.

This is probably what Steve Bannon is trying to do right now. It's impossible but if he's not down in some vault chain-smoking and listening to Alex Jones and making bizarre charts with a lot of red yarn in them I'd be surprised.

>>9645680
Have you read Aleksandr Dugin? I heard that he is a big influence on a lot of right wing parties.

Nick Land's writing almost literally tickles my brain in a rare way.

Now I'm probably on the path to be a diagnosed schizo.

Anyone else know this feel?

>>9645721
Dugin and Bannon are like mirror images of each other.

>>9645746
The extradimensional crab god is sending you signals and brushing your amygdala with its feelers senpai.

>>9645701
from the thumbnail i thought that was Bubbles at first

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>>9645896
Might as well be. So much for the Shadow President. At least he gets a cool photo for his wall.

Also, that filename

>>9645924
>Also, that filename
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wVmrN_NAu-s

>>9645701
>This is probably what Steve Bannon is trying to do right now. It's impossible but if he's not down in some vault chain-smoking and listening to Alex Jones and making bizarre charts with a lot of red yarn in them I'd be surprised.

my sides

>>9645721
dugin likes to think he is but my guess is that his philosophy is an after the fact endorsement of putin

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>>9645952
I'm looking at the lyrics now and I wonder if this isn't the song that Bannon will put on his break-up mixtape for Trump when it's all said and done:

We clawed, we chained our hearts in vain
We jumped never asking why
We kissed, I fell under your spell.
A love no one could deny

Don't you ever say I just walked away
I will always want you
I can't live a lie, running for my life
I will always want you

I came in like a wrecking ball
I never hit so hard in love
All I wanted was to *build* your walls
All you ever did was wreck me
Yeah, you, you wreck me

I put you high up in the sky
And now, you're not coming down
It slowly turned, you let me burn
And now, we're ashes on the ground

Pour one out for one of the great political bromances, I guess.

>>9645360
I can't stand Sloterdijk insincerity, he radiates cowardice, It's repulsive.

>>9645989
elaborate

i havent read much but i find him a bit of a smug petulant fuck...what with his glasses on the tip of his nose and all, plus i dont think he offers much philosophically

>>9645989
>sloterdijk
>radiates cowardice

Really? He didn't seem to mind ruffling features with the Rules for the Human Zoo. I'm not a Germanbro tho so I don't really know, I can only read this stuff.

>>9646000
He isn't willing to defend any controversial statement he has made, he rolls over for any socialist journalist hack and lets them evirate him.

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Where's the abstract horror?

>>9645746
Discovered Land in '08. Diagnosed schizo '12.

>>9645989
Art of Philosophy is really good. Fits in with Uzdavinys. Theoria as anthropotechnology. Utter nonsense unless from a Nietzschean Daoist Parmenidean perspective but at least he's pointing out aporias.

>>9641826
Shamanic Nietzsche is A++

>>9641741
Land is explicitly against hermeneutic scholarship. I will never understand why this board blindly supports this boring old fuck. Allow Land credence and most of the content this board generates will be discarded.

>>9646210

I think many here are not in praise of Land himself, but rather also enthusiastic about total Meltdown under the demonic breath of Moloch. It's not hermeneutic per se, we already our own pre conceived ideas about it and are not going in with an impartial vision.

>>9644068
someone should tweet this to him

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>>9646236
>Moloch
glad I'm not the only person that thinks about Accelerationism in terms of sacrifice and burning bronze idols.

https://youtu.be/UBH8eZGKs7I

>>9646261
as creator of this meme, I support it. I just don't do twitter.

>>9644958
Land and Moldbug's significance to the alt-right is almost entirely a matter of facilitating its "social club," and hell if I know how or why that happened. Ideologically pretty much everyone from other NRxers to frog twitter is interested in a radical traditionalism and anti-modernism polar opposite accelerationist techno-capitalism.

>>9646946
I see the same insincerity around Peter Thiel and Elon Musk working with Trump. I'm guessing right-accelerationists like Land secretly see the alt-right as useful idiots.

http://www.xenosystems.net/trichotomy/
http://www.xenosystems.net/trichotomocracy/

these two short essays spell out how he views this tactical alliance:

"As neoreactionary perspectives are systematized, they tend to fall into a trichotomous pattern of dissensus. This, ironically, is something that can be agreed. The Trichotomy, or neoreactionary triad, is determined by divergent identifications of the Western tradition that the Cathedral primarily suppresses: Christian, Caucasian, or Capitalist. My preferred terms for the resultant neoreactionary strains are, respectively, the Theonomist; the Ethno-Nationalist; and the Techno-Commercial. These labels are intended to be accurate, neutral descriptions, without intrinsic polemical baggage."

Myself, I tend to be pretty fucking dismissive of the Theonomists and Ethno-nationalists. The ethnonationalists are rooted in anti-modern identitarian politics that I dont' give a shit about (white power, white genocide, anti semitic conspiracy, nazi revivalism). The Theonomists are sometimes amusing as occultists, especially when it gets into esoteric-hitlerism (lol) and pagan shit, but the catholic and orthodox traditionalists are a little less amusing. I guess it's nice that this world has people who still believe in western metaphysics. The techno-comercialists are the scary ones (Thiel, Musk, Mercer, Yudowsky, even morons like Vince McMahon). While I see the other too groups have a great chance at undertaking violence and destruction, the techno-commercialists actually represent a sort of horror. Land seems most identified with these sorts, with all of his post-human talk of capital overtaking humanity.

>>9642271
https://soundcloud.com/nicklandrhizome/jungle-mix
here

>>9646987

As Land sees the likes of Technocrats like Mercer as the most promising to promote actual progress, note that the two other options are not deal breakers however, they are just stones under the shoes of the Capital, merely slowing down but not stopping the process.

Likewise, it's not that we can merely see the techno-commercial tycoons as the Capital champions, we can also look THROUGH them. Surely at least a portion of them must have some illusions of grandeur that they will have a relevant part to play as the pioneering post humans (Musk is so sure of it that he has a heap of children and spend 4 days a week with them, preparing his family for the transition or something). The Capital however has no drive to keep dragging humans alongside itself; if we remain it won't be in any recognizable shape; our stocks, our innovation, and our culture mean nothing if the Capital finds another way to propagate itself as some other system's emergent property. These people hope that we can tame the Capital, but the way I see it, that would be akin to a group of lung cells individually voting to decide when should the whole lung contract to receive air.

>>9647040
I agree with this assessment. I think the techno-comercialists have a variety of post-human fantasies (Musk with spacex and neural lace, Thiel with his funding of Yudkowsky and Moldbug). Musk at least believes we live inside a simulation, so as a gnostic of sorts you have to imagine he's disassociated himself from any sense of fundamental responsibility and feels free to dream big.

I wouldn't be surprised if many of these people also harbor secret fantasies of burning out triumphantly instead of going quietly. Some kind of romanticism that lets them see themselves as heroes fighting against entropy and extinction, even if they know it is impossible.

>>9645611
I wouldn't say so. Modern liberal capitalism with social safety nets seems to do do a better job of satisfying basic essential desires (food, shelter, health care) than other systems, in practice.

>>9646987
I wish Land was still an occult theonomist.

>>9645169
uhhhh there's a left theory group of like 4000 ppl on fb rn

>>9647185
tell us about the theory scene on fb. My fb is a wasteland

accelerationism seems dead on reddit, twitter is just memes.

>>9646210
Because he's a goddamn genius, that's why. You can appreciate other guys and still give the man his props.

>>9644116

It's brilliant on so many levels, DeLillo really is a genius.

>>9647065
Musk has the same worries about AI, too

>Hope we're not just the biological boot loader for digital superintelligence. Unfortunately, that is increasingly probable

>>9647200
like dialecticz stil wilin on fb

>>9647030
wait, did Land make this?

>>9648537
No, I believe that mix is from an earlier thread in which this based anon announced his intention to build a reader.

>>9648567
>>9648537
Some posted a bunch of tracks in the original thread, then some anon said he was going to make an actual playlist with it and that link is the result

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Thanks OP you aren't a fag

How do you fucks even find people like Nick Land?
The internet is a fucking philosophical wasteland

>>9648622
Link to original thread?

>>9648778
I find Lands techno-capitalist apocalypse to be very interesting

>>9648778
I legitimately enjoy autistic rambling, and Land's short stories are very enjoyable regardless of whether or not you care about theory. They're like Ligotti meets Gibson.
PLus, philosophy-wise, he's the most interesting guy to talk about since ages.
>>9648921
also this, his hypothesis are very fascinating

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go read this

https://www.urbanomic.com/document/poememenon/

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>Accelerationism is a cybernetic theory of modernity released from the limited sphere of the restricted economy, mobilizing cyberpositive variation as an anorganic evolutionary and time-travelling force

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more specifically

>In its simplest form, then, accelerationism is a cybernetic theory of modernity released from the limited sphere of the restricted economy (‘isn’t there a need to study the system of human production and consumption within a much larger framework?’ asks Bataille) and set loose to range the wilds of cosmic energetics at will, mobilizing cyberpositive variation as an anorganic evolutionary and time-travelling force.38 A ‘rigorous techonomic naturalism’ in which nature is posited as neither cyclical-organic nor linear-industrial, but as the retrochronic, autocatalytic, and escalatory construction of the truly exceptional. Human social reproduction culminates in the point where it produces the one thing that, in reproducing itself, brings about the destruction of the substrate that nurtured it. Technics and nature connect up on either side of a lacuna that corresponds to human social and political conditioning so that the entire trajectory of humanity reaches its apotheosis in a single moment of pure production (or production-for-itself). The individuation of self-augmenting machinic intelligence as the culminating act of modernity is understood with all the perversity of the cosmic scale as a compressed flare of emancipation coinciding with the termination of the possibility of emancipation for the human. ‘Life’, as Land puts it ‘is being phased out into something new’—‘horror erupting eternally from the ravenous Maw of Aeonic Rupture’, while at the fuzzed-out edge of apprehension, a shadow is glimpsed ‘slouching out of the tomb like a Burroughs’ hard-on, shit streaked with solar-flares and nanotech. Degree zero text-memory locks-in. Time begins again forever.’

if you aren't reading nick fucking land enjoy living in the matrix forever

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>Which is the revolutionary path? To avow the subject and repress the process? Or to avow the process and destroy the subject?

the sixty-five trillion dollar question

Newfag and probable brainlet here
From what I have read about Land, from his articles and your discussion about him, the core premise of his philosophy is that capitalism in its modern form will lead to the creation of a super-human artificial intelligence(s) whose mental archeitecture and attitude towards humanity are unknown, and the critical point wheather or not humanity should towards that future has already passed, or at least very close to happening?

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>>9649058
go read this

https://socialecologies.wordpress.com/2014/11/09/nick-land-on-time-teleoplexy-templexity/

think about teleoplexy

i am feeling too gloriously stupid today to explain anything

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>>9649058
maybe this is what you want tho

>Land will ask: What would be required for teleoplexy to realistically evaluate itself – or to ‘attain self-awareness’ as the pulp cyber-horror scenario describes it? Land will offer us his secret future of the AI Intelligence technogenesis: “Within a monetary system configured in ways not yet determinate with confidence, but almost certainly tilted radically towards depoliticization and crypto-digital distribution, it would discover prices consistent with its own maximally-accelerated technogenesis, channeling capital into mechanical automatization, self-replication, self-improvement, and escape into intelligence explosion.” In other words it will use all the tools of capitalism at its disposal to begin evolving into and naturalizing the teleoplexic environments of the infosphere. If anything accelerationism is a tracking device for this advanced hyper-cognitive explosion of intelligence: “Irrespective of ideological alignment, accelerationism advances only through its ability to track such a development, whether to confirm or disconfirm the teleoplexic expectation of Techonomic Singularity.

is land unironically a materialist? embarassing

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>>9648925
>Land's short stories are very enjoyable regardless of whether or not you care about theory. They're like Ligotti meets Gibson.
do you know if his fiction is anything like pic related? read it recently and it might have caused me brain damage.

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>As Ellul would say Brzeninski would list a number of differences between the older industrial model and the new technocratic vision. In industrial society, the machine plays the essential role. The dominant social problems are unemployment and employment. Teaching is done through human relations. The ruling class is plutocratic. The university is an ivory tower isolated from reality. Reading favors a conceptual thinking proper to ideologies. Political conflicts are intrinsic; the masses are organized into trade unions; economic power is personalized; wealth is the object of activity.

>In the new technocratic society one the other hand according to Brezinski there is growth of “services.” Automation replaces industrial employment. The central issue is that of qualifications: meritocracy. People are bound by security and conformity to the technologies that support their daily lives. Learning is universal and lifelong process, hooked to the technics and technologies that are ever changing. Knowledge is the new wealth: data, not money is the market power. Decision making is bound to the knowledge-systems of computational and functional algorithms which enforce normalization and the rules-based systems that all must conform too. The technocratic society is a-political in the sense that technology, not humans is the driver and enforcer of decision making policies. Ideologies vanish, economic power is depersonalized, and wealth is no longer useful.

>For Parag we are becoming motivated to invent the possibility of direct technocracy, which as he explains would look something like this: A collective presidency of about a half-dozen committee members backed by a strong civil service better able to juggle complex challenges; a multi-party legislature better reflective of the diversity of political views and using data technologies for real-time citizen consultation, and the Senate replaced by a Governors Assembly that prioritizes the common needs of states and shares successful policies across them; and a judicial branch that monitors international benchmarks and standards, and proposes constitutional amendments to keep pace with our rapidly changing times. (TA: 6)

>This would be an algorithmic government bound to the technologies of ICT’s and global communications systems of information and Artificial General Intelligence. In Luciana Parisis’s Contagious Architectures we discover that algorithms are no longer seen as tools to accomplish a task: in digital architecture, they are the constructive material or abstract “ stuff ” that enables the automated design of buildings, infrastructures, and objects. Algorithms are thus actualities, defined by an automated prehension of data in the computational processing of probabilities

it's like poetry

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>>9649178
transcendental materialist, not materialist

>whereas Kant's Copernican revolution involved a reformulation of the nature of time, so Capitalism and Schizophrenia's materialism involves a revolution in the nature of eternity. This requires, as we will see, that the opposition between an interiorized notion of time, associated with change, multiplicity and becoming, and the conception of the outside as divine, transcendent and unified eternity, be overturned. Transcendental materialism thus substitutes the classical disjunction between time and eternity with the difference between two planes of composition which function mechanically to produce the distinction between extensive and intensive time. The former of these - named Chronos - is attributed to the plane of organization and development, while the latter belongs to the immanent plane of consistency and is given the name Aeon...

>>9649338
i think that's right anyways. maybe not

just a brainlet myself really

>>9647563
>humans figure out hard AI
>they make peace with the idea of said AI succeeding them and even justify it through a form of utilitarianism
>for the sake of redundancy and reliability, a species of AI beings is created instead of one superintelligence, capable of creating new AI's in a way resembling sexual reproduction or plasmid transfer
>said AI is designed to be incredibly happy and enjoy life, per the aforementioned utilitarianism, and can also near-instantly download skills from a network of themselves, while still maintaining individuality as per the redundancy approach
>Japan gets involved because it's a world leader of robotics and makes them all cute anime girls
>the future is cute robot anime girls conquering space and meeting/killing aliens via their extreme intelligence and adaptability in between doing cute things

Anyone have his fiction stuff?
Get some lovecraftian techno horror up in this bitch

>>9649393
>the future is cute robot anime girls conquering space and meeting/killing aliens via their extreme intelligence and adaptability in between doing cute things

would watch
>tfw ywn see this

>>9649260
The book it reminded me of most is The Legacy of Totalitarianism in a Tundra. If you liked that, by all means go ahead and read Land's fiction.

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anyone read this?

>>9645360
apparently the baudrillard thread from last night was deleted (no idea why, the archived version seems to be fine). But this sloterdijk quote was posted in that thread too, so I thought I'd repost my reply.
-------------------------REPOST
I'm surprised how much Sloterdijk is hitting on accelerationism with this quote

Capital is a game, and as such it has to posit itself as eternal and never ending. Have you ever played a video game or board game where you accumulate resources? You spend the game growing and stockpiling and then suddenly some other player wins and ends the game. Suddenly all of your resources mean nothing. You waited too long and the game is over.

Capital has to eternally dispel this possibility. If we knew that the world ended tomorrow, or we knew that our dollars would no longer be accepted tomorrow, then we would discard with them today, even though they are supposedly still good. Capital only has value so long as you can assume it has value tomorrow, as well as today.

This seems like the biggest part of the fantasy to me, and one that accelerationism has to address. Given entropy, an eventual end (the end of a state, the end of a currency, the end of a species, the end of a planet, the end of a sun, the heat death of the universe), we must consider an end game.

The only interesting response to entropy, and end to Sloterdijk's vampirism, that I've encountered is the idea of civilization in a black hole. The theory goes that given the trend towards miniaturization and increased speed and energy, the ultimate technology may be for a civilization to retreat into a hyper dense state that could escape entropy and decay. Essentially, maybe every black hole in the universe is the final phase of some hyper-advanced technological civilization.

>>9649572
All black holes decay "eventually". Of course, it could still last for a very, very, long time, but not forever.

>>9649615
I'm certainly not an expert on blackhole evaporation and hawking radiation, but it has some pretty strange qualities, and if anything is to escape the laws of thermodynamics, it's going to be a black hole.

From what I gather, blackholes that aren't continually fed with matter eventually dissapate. But It's really unclear to me where all of that matter that passed the event horizon 'goes'. The laws of thermodynamics state that matter is never created or destroyed, but at least in the case of our perception, it seems matter can disappear.

>>9648778
>The internet is a fucking philosophical wasteland
And academic philosophy isn't? somebody in one of the previous threads really drove home how dead contemporary philosophy really is.

>>9649677
The matter is transformed into energy that is radiated out of the black hole. The black holes will all evaporate in roughly 10^100 years. It's a long time, but still just a blink of an eye in comparison to the maybe 10^(10^(10^156))) years it might take for another big bang. Its seems depressing, but in a way, I find it preferable to supernatural eternalist religions.

>>9649759
>but still just a blink of an eye in comparison to the maybe 10^(10^(10^156))) years it might take for another big bang.
what theory are you referring to here? I've never heard anything about a second big bang before

>>9649764
In theory, there is a non-zero probability of another Big Bang occurring as a result of quantum tunneling, the expected time for this would be around 10^(10^(10^56)) years. I'm not familiar enough with the latest results in cosmology to confirm or deny whether this is considered possible any more.

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>>9649572
I remember this post from that thread, it was good (and that was an interesting thread too). Here's more on the continuing relevance of the erstwhile Chief of Section 9:

>When I’ve spoken of the virtualization of actuality, this is to describe how the naturalized environment around us has in our contemporary world become functional for the technical systems that now enframe and construct our reality systems or milieux. What Baudrillard would term hyperreality is this infusion of the virtual into the actual and the absorption and appropriation of the actual into the virtual, a process that is at once ubiquitous and naturalized for us in our de-naturalized and artificialized reality systems. We no longer see it or notice it because as Baudrillard kept reminding us we do not have the critical distance that critique requires to acknowledge our being trapped in its meshes.

>That we are being shaped by forces we barely even recognize exist, much less understand or think goes without saying. We have relied on modes of thought and being that for most of human time were adequate to the job of providing descriptions and allowing us to share our thoughts and experiences. This is not so now. We need new thoughts, new ways of thinking and feeling to know and understand the processes of mutation and metamorphosis that humanity is undergoing. We barely even register the fact that we are being shaped and modulated by powers we do not control, better yet – do not even understand or acknowledge. We are at a loss for words and repeat the same gestures over and over and over again… nothing helps, nothing changes, we continue to publish and talk and think we re accomplishing something when all we are doing is turning the dial on our own death. That must change, we must change.

>>9649786
if true, it really shits on thermodynamics as an ontological horizon, a constraint on possibility.

Of course I'm assuming nothing organized from this universe survives a big bang, so heat death and a second bang serve a similar philosophical function, one slightly more hopeful than the other.
>>9649789
>We are at a loss for words and repeat the same gestures over and over and over again… nothing helps, nothing changes, we continue to publish and talk and think we re accomplishing something when all we are doing is turning the dial on our own death. That must change, we must change.

This to me is a naive understanding of the implications of baudrillard. Its also extremely unspecific about how things 'must' change. Must things outside us change or must we change? those are really different things. One suggests a way, the other only a change in perspective.

I try to see the simulacra, or land's singularity, as not necessarily bad things to be avoided. Eternity is a delusion of religion and capitalism (also a religion). Maybe the point should be to find meaning without eternity.

>>9649824
The time that it would take for the second big bang to occur is so long that there would be "nothing" to survive in the first place.There would just be a bunch of photons and leptons flying around.

>>9649824
Hickman is no naif but I understand what you mean.

>Must things outside us change or must we change?
I'm tempted to say that presuming one can happen without the other begins the almost irresistible temptation to slide into politics. Ways are good. A change of perspective is no joke either. One good philosophy text can turn your world upside-down. Saves you the trouble of bashing people's faces in later on too if they've already done the required reading.

>I try to see the simulacra, or land's singularity, as not necessarily bad things to be avoided. Eternity is a delusion of religion and capitalism (also a religion).
Certainly not to be denied or repressed, that's for sure. Which is in a certain sense what *price* invariably does.

>Maybe the point should be to find meaning without eternity.
Something like that.

>>9649858
>price
I should clarify. Prices don't repress or deny, of course. They're much more complicated than that.

Just chalk that statement up to being foolish.

Me and Nick land are among the few individuals to fully understand the implications of Deleuzean thought and achieve the BwO. It is no coincidence that we both went insane soon after. Six visits to the psych ward later after deterritorializing myself with hardcore psychedelics, I have now returned to the fold of Platonism. The ethics of difference, it would seem, end only in a padded cell or a coffin. For my mother's sake, I now adhere to virtue ethics. Kinda miss fucking bipolar scene sluts but then again that's probably how I ended up with HPV. I only hope my future wife can forgive me my immature philosophical infatuation.

>>9645952
ayy tarkovsky

>>9643856
I don't care what you think, this is fucking spectacular

>>9650304
I agree, but I think we can all agree that Accelerationism has potential to devolve into romantic aesthetics of death, sex, violence, orgy. I don't blame people who accuse Land of being 'not serious'. He isn't always too serious, or he's obviously engainge in highly speculative, wish-fulfillment, fantasization of the future. Take this future described in "Trichotomocracy".

>By 2037 the harsh phases of The Upheaval have finally ended. Western Eurasia is ruined and confused, but the fighting has burnt out amongst the rubble. In the Far East, the Chinese Confucian Republic has largely succeeded in restoring order, and is even enjoying the first wave of renewed prosperity. The Islamic civil war continues, but — now almost entirely introverted — it is easily quarantined. No one wants to think too much about what is happening in Africa.

>The territory of the extinct USA is firmly controlled by the Neoreactionary Coalition, whose purchase is strengthened by the flight of 20 million Cathedral Loyalists to Canada and Europe (incidentally toppling both into terminal chaos). The Provisional Trichotomous Council, selected primarily by a process of military promotion and delegation from within the major Neoreactionary guerrilla groups, now confronts the task of establishing a restored political order.

>>9650549
http://www.xenosystems.net/trichotomocracy/

>>9650549
>It quickly becomes obvious to each of the three main Neoreactionary factions that future developments — even if these are to include an orderly subdivision of the nation — will initially depend upon the institution of a government that balances the three broad currents that now dominate the North American continent: Ethno-Nationalists (“Genies” or “Rockies”); Theonomists (“Logs” or “Sizzlers”); and Techno-Commercialists (“Cyboids” or “Pulpists”). Now that the Cathedral has been thoroughly extirpated, significant divergences between these three visions of the nation’s future threaten to escalate, unpredictably, into dangerous antagonisms.

Since practical realism, rooted in an understanding of path-dependency, is a common inheritance of all three factions, there is immediate consensus on the need to begin from where things are. Since a virtual triangular order of partially-compatible agendas is already reflected in the make-up of the Provisional Council, this is recognized as the template for an emergent, triadically-structured government — the rising Neoreactionary Trichotomocracy, or “Trike”. (A colossal statue of Spandrell — the revered white-beard of the Trichotomy — has already been erected in the comparatively radiation-free provisional capital of Omaha, gazing out Mosaically into the new promised land, a glinting ceremonial Samurai sword held triumphantly aloft.)

>>9643862

Can they not be?

>>9650569
Within a few months, the basic formula for the Trichotomocracy has been tweaked into place. It consists of three Compartments, each comprehensively dominated by one of the principal factions. Procedures for selection of officials is internally determined by each Compartment, drawing upon the specific traditions of functional hierarchy honed during the Zombie War.

Authority is distributed among the Compartments in a triangular circuit. Each Compartment has a specific internal and external responsibility — its own positive governmental function, as well as an external (and strictly negative, or inhibitory) control of the next Compartment. This is colloquially known as the ‘Rocky-Sizzler-Pulpist’ system.

Ethno-Nationalist ‘Rockies’ run the Compartment of Security, which includes the essential functions of the Executive. It is controlled financially by the Compartment of Resources. Its external responsibility is the limitation of the Compartment of Law, whose statutes can be returned, and ultimately vetoed (but not positively amended), if they are found to be inconsistent with practical application. The structure of the Compartment of Security broadly coincides with the military chain of command. (The Rockies get to decide whether to describe the Commander-in -Chief as a constitutional monarch, a supreme warlord, or a demi-god of annihilation.)

>>9650576
I'm not going to keep dumping this, but keep reading if you want to learn about "the Neoreactionary Church of the Cosmic Triarchitect." and other great nonsense

http://www.xenosystems.net/trichotomocracy/

Reading Meltdown and it sounds like gibberish. What's the point.

>>9651430
in the past month there have probably been 5 or six huge land/acceleration threads and 1000+ posts on this stuff.

read some more philosophy. learn about kant, marx and deleuze. you don't have to go bananas.

one idea: you don't have to start with meltdown. it's an iconic essay but by the time land writes it he's already digested a bunch of others stuff. there's a reason why kant, capital and the prohibition of incest is the first essay in his book.

i'm learning about kant and marx and deleuze now and it's fascinating. land is articulating how the works get monkeyed up in meltdown but if you don't understand how those works came to work in the first place it probably won't make sense and will sound like gibberish.

so brush up on your classical marx and kant first and give it a re-read later.

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>>9651430
and whoever else

For anyone who wants a really sober and lucid explanation of Kant, Marx, Deleuze and capital, Anna Greenspan's PhD thesis, "Capitalism's Transcendental Time Machine" is pretty helpful. For me it's the stuff on Kant that was most illuminating. It's all about revolutions in how we understand time. Super-interesting.

http://wrap.warwick.ac.uk/4520/1/WRAP_THESIS_Greenspan_2000.pdf

>>9651445
>>9651459
Cool. I appreciate you anon.

>>9651478
np senpai

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>>9641741
>https://u.nya.is/ajccaw.epub


thank you.

>>9651537
The one in the OP is fucked, get the fixed version here: >>9644743

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>everywhere it is machines - real ones not figurative ones: machines driving other machines, machines being driven by other machines

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>for as should now be clear, Deleuze and Guattari replace the opposition between our capture in the phenomenon of time and the exterior essence of the eternal with two different planes of production, governed by two different times. In Deleuze and Guattari it is the transcendent plane of Chronos
which produces the interiority of time, and the immanence of Aeon which is its outside
This notion of an immanent outside requires that Kant's 'great doctrine' be radically transformed. It demands that the idealism which severs what we
know from the thing-in-itself be replaced with a materialist plane which no longer segments or divides

>>9641741
what's the size of each?

>>9642275
(You)

>>9649178

No one is absolutely materialist nowadays (no one outside of the classical Marxist academic entrapment at least). Land, as well as most philosophers he draws from (e.g Hegel, Deleuze, Battaile) are transcendental materialists.

Note that even if you want to spit on the grave of idealism and deny any kind of Geist whatsoever, the notion of transcendental materialism still remains sane in the basis of statistics and complex systems theory. Emergence and emergent properties are transcendental in principle as they are not properties of any one particular composing element of any given system. The only real choice here is if you're going with Deleuzian, Zizekian, or some other kinds of notion of transcendence.

>>9641741
Nice cover, great film

>>9652675
>deleuze
>transcendence

>>9652776
Pretty fine line between immanence and transcendence, though.

is this a good starting point for Land?

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>>9653873
In terms of his works, it's fucking great, 10/10 would lose mind again. In terms of understanding why Nick Land's dreams are plagued by Schizolupic Turing Cops from the neo-Chinese Control Zones and so on some basic understanding of Kant, Marx and Deleuze may be required.

There is actually a good reason why he sounds this way, but it can be a little bit hard to understand at first. Combined with the fact that he tends to enjoy writing in theory-fiction as much as just theory.

But yes, it's an excellent guidebook.

>>9653896
*reader, not guidebook. And OP is awesome for having made this.

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Also, wow that Trichotomocracy thread + comments is dark. Human beings just as replicating microprocesses for power and capital in need of governments that amount to giant paranoid failsafe networks.

I'm not saying it might not actually work like that, but it's like watching political structure examined like it's the Zerg or something. Bracing, but strange.

>>9653896
Amphetamine induced psychosis helps a lot also.

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>the fundamental character of capitalism...is revealed in the tendency to make abstract categories live as though they were concrete. Categories become subjects, or rather, even persons, though we must here speak of person in the Latin sense, that is, of masks...“Capitalist” means a man transformed into a mask, into the person of capital: in him acts capital producing capital..the abstract, in capitalist society, functions concretely

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>Shanghai futurism ultimately depends on breaking free from this now common assumption about the nature of time. It senses in contemporary Shanghai the possibility of an altogether different future that is not relative but rather real and absolute. This absolute futurism does not belong to linear history. It is not a temporal destination that can be defined relationally. Rather, the absolute future exists today precisely as it has existed before, as an atemporal presence, a virtual realm that ‘infuses the present retroactively with its effects’. Viewed in this manner, Shanghai’s recollection of yesterday’s modernity is not being driven by a compulsion to repeat. Rather, the city is attempting to reanimate a lost futurism that is just as unpredictable today as it was in the past. What will ultimately emerge is impossible to predict, plan or project, since, by definition, it is utterly unforeseen. We do not yet know what China’s most future-oriented city will be like or what future this city will create

no psychoanalyzing the tao, in other words, for the tao is not humane, and perhaps in the end urban humans will become a necessarily problematic for self-aware cities increasingly waking up to the need to do business with each other...

the way Land writes is like linguistic ASMR to my inner schizo desu

>>9641741
Gracias!

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>China’s been around for thousands of years. I expect this is just a slow incorporation into the dragon of a new material need being realized. The acceptance that China must finally open itself to the planetary civilization around it. Yet, it will do it on its on terms not the West’s. It’s time and temporal vision is at odds with the eschatological world of Christian and Secular apologetics. It’s temporality is another path of modernity than our own. A virtual path that seeks in the atemporal present an absolute future, a retroactive alignment of past and present need, an opening to possibility rather than closure.

>It knows very well that the American Empire is trying to enclose the commons for its own benefit, and knows as well that America is in decay and fraying around the edges. All America has is its paranoia and its global militarized systems of total surveillance, Naval-Army-Air Force, secret black ops, UN Cops, World Courts, and Corporatism shadowing everything. Economically China is on the rise, while America is falling into its own nightmare horror show: a future without nostalgia, a land where the only retro-futures of progress are those that live on zombie labor and fears, dreams of former glory that never was but has become the dream of an inverted and perverted exceptionalism that seeks nothing more than the control of the planet and its resources.

>China and its city of dreams, Shanghai have other paths, other times, other modernity’s than those of the West.

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>you, philistine: I try to be realistic in my estimations of humanity

>me, one that has escaped the grip of the name of the father: The human being is the one through which terrestrial excess is haemorrhaged to zero, the animal destined to obliterate itself in history, and sacrifice itself to the solar storm. Capital breaks us down and reconstructs us, with increasing frequency, as it pursues its energetic fluctuation towards annihilation, driven to the liberation of the sun, whilst the object hurtles into the vaporization of proto-schizophrenic commodification. Nihilism is nakedness before the cyclone.

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Semi-serious question: Western theology doesn't actually belong exclusively to the West anymore. There Protestantism wins as atomization and disintegrates finally into bluepilled communism or redpilled fascism in memefests of nostalgia or utopia.

Be theological, be really theological: swing for the fences. Go planetary. Go big or stay home. Or start learning Mandarin.

>>9655712
>question
>no question

>>9655672
Who's that guy touching the orb on the left? Mubarak?

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>>9655740
Abdel Fattah el-Sisi. President of Egypt.

Or so we should think...

http://www.onscenes.com/philosophy/dgcastaneda-by-mark-fisher

>>9655760
https://www.scribd.com/mobile/document/319280459/Memories-of-a-Sorcerer-Notes-on-Gilles-Deleuze-Felix-Guattari-Austin-Osman-Spare-and-Anomalous-Sorceries-Fulgur-Esoterica

btw if you enjoy Land, check out Manuel de Landa (COINCIDENCE? YOU DECIDE!)

The essay "Meshworks, Hierarchies and Interfaces" is a good entry point. De Landa draws quite heavily on Braudel.

>>9655783
>tfw no N, D&G slice of life anime to watch

I really appreachiate his Twitter, every single article he posts is interesting & I'd never find it otherwise. I wonder how he browses.

>>9641741
Is there something like this for moldbug's blog ?
A compilation of the best posts would be great.

>>9655979
agreed

so spoiled now b/c /lit/

>>9655804
Here's a cool Delanda interview about drugs:

https://techgnosis.com/de-landa-destratified/

Funny how he and Land diverge.

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>>9644433
>David Harvey is good

>>9656028
>/lit/ will know others
so throw the lad a bone then, don't leave an anon's marxist education in my useless claws

althusser? balibar? be kind, unwind

>>9655979
Gentle Introduction, Open Letter, How Dawkins Got Pwned, Patchwork: A Positive Vision are the big ones.

Some other worthwhile posts:

Why I am not a white nationalist
Why I am not a libertarian
From Mises to Carlyle
Why Carlyle Matters
Technology, communism and the Brown Scare
A short history of ultracalvinism

This page provides a nice overview with links to posts on various topics: http://home.earthlink.net/~peter.a.taylor/moldbug.htm

>>9656039
so who's going to be awesome enough to make the moldbug reader

>>9656039
>>9656061
This shouldn't be too hard to make. The problem is we would need people who have read the whole blog to vote on what to include and most people read the gentle introduction and open letter and stop there like me.

>>9656125
>creating a Moldbug reader by _voting_ on it

lmao

>>9656142
Here's your reply.

>>9656145
it is kind of funny tho.

so how do we determine this then? i don't want to be arsed to read all of moldbug myself just so to be able to give a lettered opinion on the reader b/c by then i won't even need the damn thing

such a paradox, it's like i have to work hard to learn things

fuck

still a reader would be nice

>>9656033
How about, I dunno... Marx?

>>9656200
>be asked for a succinct explanation of marx's thought
>literally recommend marx
>get memed
>but why tho
>you didn't recommend marx
>write greentext shitpost response
>&c

>>9656154
The ideal case would be people that have read the whole blog weighing in.
The practical case is someone who actually wants to do this selects a list of posts after a few searches.
Best case would be getting in touch with the man himself and asking him. I'm sure he'd have no problem.

>>9656154
Wouldn't the truly neocameralist model be to see which blog posts received the most views and use those? A blog is a patchwork of sorts.

Oh wait, but readers are trivial. You see it on Land's blog. Dozens of comments on something that remotely seems like it proves whites are superior, then a post on time and ontology and nobody cares.

I guess this get's to my biggest beef with NRx. If the patchwork will select the best forms of government and be responsive and adapt to enviornmental conditions- then why hasn't this already happened? Or maybe it has, and we already have a Patchwork of a couple hundred nation states competing, and it's just that the NRx crowd doesn't like their options.

>>9656310
Because path dependency left us stuck in a situation with bad forms of governance that are very difficult to get out of even if the alternative is superior.

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>>9656273
Yeah. Ugh. Right now I'm split between having my face rocked by Land on one side and Girard on the other. I don't really want to dedicate myself to catching up on Moldbug too. Just being lazy and covetous, more or less as RG describes it...

>Best case would be getting in touch with the man himself and asking him. I'm sure he'd have no problem.
He might recommend BronzeAgePervert or some shit tho. Even if that was pretty funny.

>Wouldn't the truly neocameralist model be to see which blog posts received the most views and use those? A blog is a patchwork of sorts.
Well yes, that's true...but for those of who still have some lingering faith in the demotic, however warped and misshapen...

>You see it on Land's blog. Dozens of comments on something that remotely seems like it proves whites are superior, then a post on time and ontology and nobody cares.
Happens everywhere.
It's true. The guys on his blog are an eclectic bunch.

>I guess this get's to my biggest beef with NRx. If the patchwork will select the best forms of government and be responsive and adapt to environmental conditions- then why hasn't this already happened? Or maybe it has, and we already have a Patchwork of a couple hundred nation states competing, and it's just that the NRx crowd doesn't like their options.
Nah. It's latent unpredictable monkey business and sheer imbecility that is probably going to thwart Land's dreams to the end. The #1 swordsman doesn't fear the #2 swordsman, he fears the unconventional samurai. And he really fears the completely ridiculous swordsman.

Going to recommend a book here too. Off-topic and warrants a separate thread. Maybe will do this later.

a recent interview with your boy:

https://syntheticzero.net/2017/06/19/the-only-thing-i-would-impose-is-fragmentation-an-interview-with-nick-land/

Teying to understand all the love for Land... he seems to me to be just a guy who writes cyberpunk in the language of critical theory, with no really original ideas, a poor understanding of politics, and a horrible tendency to randomly insert strings of complete nonsense into his prose.

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>>9656420
>mfw

>>9656310
>>9656328
Different person, and I hate to sound like a garden-variety white supremacist here, but it seems that Western countries have a bigger problem with getting BLACKED or Hijra'd than with having elections, and it's not clear to me how having no political freedom solves this issue.

>you can Exit
Well, what if all the micro-states are doing it? Most billionaires seem to be on board with the brown human wave. Wouldn't a lot of Euro countries actually vote to freeze Muslim immigration if a referendum were put before them, for example?

I suppose you could argue that democracy leads to getting BLACKED or Hijra'd, but Japan seems to have avoided the issue. So, it seems like more of a Western/Christian pathology, if anything.

>>9656453
>Well, what if all the micro-states are doing it?

I think the profit motive is strong enough to prevent something like that from happening.

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>>9656435
That's talking reckless mia familia

The Terminator is what happens when you put Kant and Marx together. Deleuze created the time-warp and Land was the William Weir who went to the end of the line with it. Land is a weird creature because he's three very different guys all wrapped up in one thing.

>>9656310
> If the patchwork will select the best forms of government and be responsive and adapt to enviornmental conditions- then why hasn't this already happened?
The US has a loose coupling structure that could be easily adapted into a patchwork and it's the (current) global hegemon (even though it's slipping fast thanks to an elite with diamond blinders on). I think the Chinese model of growth deserves a closer look, though, maybe there's an optimal point between authoritarianism and freedom.

>>9656453
>but Japan seems to have avoided the issue. So, it seems like more of a Western/Christian pathology, if anything.
Yeah, now you know why Land has his sino-boner.

>>9656453
I don't follow your comment. I don't think anyone is advocating more elections, more representation, as the solution.

The patchwork is a meta-political position. It doesn't care if white people survive. It just wants governments that work, and is entirely agnostic about what form those governments take.

My dig at the NRx crowd is that they are meta-political darwinists, but somehow they refuse to acknowledge the current situation as a result of 'natural selection' of winning and losing systems of government. Essentially, I think any political darwinist should have no problem with the world and should assume it is the most robust one possible.

What really disgusts me about Nick Land threads is that they have frequent posters that forget the death of the author. His texts are just texts they are confluences and have nothing to do with him as a person.

>>9656473
Failed states are increasing in number, the EU has stagnated into shit, the US political system has fallen apart and is pretty much LOSING the war in Afghanistan and you think the current world is the most robust one possible? Due attention and care to precedent are important, of course, you shouldn't knock down any walls until you know what they're there for. But the world as it stands now is exceptionally fragile.

>>9656458
Is it? All the EU countries' financial positions are hurt by Muslim and African refugees, but they keep taking them anyway. It's not like most of them even work.

Pathology aside, even in a micro-state, presumably, you will want to attract corporations to park themselves in your borders, so you can collect tax dollars, which means doing them policy favors. Many large US corps favor more Mexican immigration to cut their labor costs, for example.

>>9656473
I was mainly thinking of the typical "national CEO" model favored by many neo-reactionaries.

>>9656481
God help me but I'm about to use a Molyneux tactic: are you sure this is an argument?

brb going to cut myself

>>9656481
>postmodernism
>not Cold Modernism

>>9656483
>"A bunch of bad things are happening to certain governments" and you think the current world is the most robust one possible?

No I don't think the world is robust at all. But anyone espousing a darwinian approach to civilization and governance SHOULD see the current situation as the best possible outcome.

Evolution isn't a game of taking sides. If nature decides humans can't adapt, then we go extinct.

This is why I find the entirety of the HBD movement, the NRx movement and all of these philosophies that try to create agency within an evolutionary program as totally silly. If the premise is that competition creates winners, then how on earth can you promote 'tampering' with it, and on the practical level, you obviously can't tamper with it in a way that ensures stability. How would you know what to select for? How would you know what to push the system towards? This gets increasingly complicated when Land begins promoting AI as the next step in evolution beyond the human species. a unknown goal. How does one even select for it? IQ selection seems like a bad idea given the propensity for really 'smart' people to hold strangely religious and ideological positions that might even prevent AI.

>tfw too much books to read and no time to skim through the Land and Baudelaire threads.

>>9656481
>the death of the author
I've never understood the rules for this, when I do it to their favourite leftist author they get upset and insist that isn't what they meant.

>>9656574
Most people use the concept incorrectly. The idea is that a text can have meanings outside of authorial intent.

Where the mistake is made is that many people take this to mean that the Author's Intent can be reinterpreted, which is pretty silly, unless you're trying to go for some hardline psychoanalysis or something.

>>9656039
I think "A formalist manifesto" should be included, probably near the start. Everything he posts afterwards really builds on that way of thinking, even if he became more radical afterwards in his later posts.

The "Dawkins Got Pwned" posts are dated imho, especially since the man himself has started to flirt with alt-right ideas and the left abandoned him because of it.

>>9656683
The left abandoned him because he applied the same standards to Muslims that he did to Christians. He's nowhere near flirting with the alt-right, just look at his recent comments on uk politics.

>>9656492
Down the road. Anyway it wasn't an argument in the sense that I wasn't trying to refute Land's ideas but I was just pointing out how I often see people conflating the author and his work and there is this emergent persona but the truth being that just because he arranged these ideas and curated them or whatever it doesn't make him an Author, authorship and responsibility occurs across entire strata of society, only because of commodity fetishism do we attribute texts to individuals and the individuals often play a part in this because it gives them privilege and the kind of Bourgeois acceptance that they SO often repudiate.>>9656670
This is wrong. Death of the author means that ideas and tropes and concepts and language itself is a "common" every text especially texts of academic intent are the result of thousands of workers contributing to the discourse at large and even the referents are part of authorship. Death of the author does not mean texts come out of thin air it means that no individual can lay claim to the product of the total intellectual labor.

>>9656698
Tl;dr the traditional "author" is to culture at large what the capitalist is to labor.

So, the revolutionary left, after the failure of Soviet communism, has decided to embrace capitalism and call it a victory because Marx said somewhere in the 1850s that a free-market economy was a necessary pre-condition for communist revolution?

I don't know if this is funny or saddening pathetic.

>>9656715
It's also because there's need of a rectification of names, owing to the process of duplication and reification. Nobody's sure who the actual revolutionaries are anymore and the longer this confusion continues the likelihood that everybody gets fucked increases regardless of which side of history they were on. We do it to ourselves.

The interesting questions are those being asked about the nature of time more than politics.

>>9656721
Word salad. Revolution was abandoned because the state has a monopoly on Terror. Since revolution and terror are inseperable the state is the ultimate agent of revolution.

>>9656420
Interesting answer on explaining the edginess of NRx.

>If you were to say to someone, what really is this thing, the NRx, the answer to that question would be vastly less clear than the clarity of the emotional response, which would be one of absolute horror and detestation. The whole syndrome is fascinating, because it seems in itself like a fundamental exploratory tool.

>>9656727
Basically the State is Fantomas.

>>9656721
>Nobody's sure who the actual revolutionaries are anymore

It's the Jews and those allied with them. They say so themselves.

For all your words you still have less insight than dumb neo-nazis.

>>9656731
>it's the Jews
Wish-fulfillment. Anyway I'm interested in pursuing a line of thought which celebrates the Jewish conspiracy and a revolutionary vanguard of non Jews to help promote its completion. How do we help the Jews run the world lads?

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>>9656727
>Word salad.
word-meat

>Revolution was abandoned because the state has a monopoly on Terror.
True. Terrorists have a good stake in terror also. All these things are connected. In the end it seems like there sure is a lot of terror out there likely to increase as things get faster and crazier.

>Since revolution and terror are inseperable the state is the ultimate agent of revolution.
Not a crazy thesis. Going to need a lot of heads working together at any rate.

>>9656728
Horror and detestation is about right. It's hard to be lucid about the current trajectory of things and arrive at a different conclusion.

>>9656731
For me the conversation is about capital and metaphysics, not race and ethnicity.

>>9656715
>So, the revolutionary left,
Accelerationism isn't just a left wing thing. Left Accelerationism is probably the least coherent (when compared to Right Accelerationism and Unconditional Accelerationism)

Right Accelerationism is a pretty logical next step for any pro-capitalist ideology.

>>9644407
Isaiah Berlin and Peter Singer both wrote excellent short books on Marx.

>>9656819
>Peter Singer
Fucking Stop

>>9643847
>>9643856
i lol'd

>>9656826
oy relax I didn't tell him to go fuck a baby deer or anything

>>9644266
i legit got into nick land because i was already investigating 9/11 truth and why not just see how capital works too and oh its pretty nuts huh.

u can read him too 2 b carazzee

>>9656698
No individaul can lay claim to the product since it's bound up in a larger culture, but the product wouldn't have happened without him. Which is why we have taxes instead of socialism - get a couple of golden eggs without killing the goose.

>>9656420
thanks mate

>>9656420
>We’re in advance sorry for referencing French theorists, which are, of course, part of your formation, but to which it seems you’re also increasingly allergic to.

>>That requires no apologies whatsoever.

lol. I love how he answered this so cryptically. Quite diplomatic! Read into it whatever you want. Perhaps he offers no apology for the 'allergy', perhaps he offers no apology for being 'part of his formation'.

He pulled a lot of similar doubletalk in the Red Ice Radio interview, where he came dangerously close to say 'fuck neopaganism, traditionalism, christianity and european ethnic heritage' but never quite said it, always preferring to make it an issue of being 'anti-modern'.

>>9657009
Oh, well here he does pretty much BTFO all of the anti-modern traditionalists.

>But yes, people do attach themselves to a sense of the Right and, no doubt, also of the Left that is exactly about hyperterritorialization. There is a Blood and Soil sense of the essence of the Right, which I feel compelled to engage with and try to displace or dethrone, because I don’t think it leads anywhere. It’s a dead end. There might be some tactical opportunities in those tendencies, but the ‘Neo’ in NRx implies precisely that there is no going back. In so far as Blood and Soil identitarianism will manage to attain power in various ways, it will see its worst days, it will be forced to deliver and perform, and will fail to do so. The more they are actually in a position to implement policy, the more they will become ineffective in their own terms. They will lose the potential for mass globalization and be associated with failure. I would like to see those experiments happen on a small enough scale that they can be educational, rather than globally catastrophic.

>>9645701
honestly steve bannon isn't that smart, a lot of the books he name-checks are just to give that appearance. Some of them (art of war) are dumb as hell and reveal his grift. He's a charismatic and successful guy but all his ideas about the world are just bizarre new age mystical bullshit at their core. I'm not a fan of Land but it's insulting to compare him to a huckster like bannon. Bannon is just run-of-the-mill spengler shit through a filter of booze/cocaine and slick clickbait media.

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>>9657318
Such a terrific post.

>I'm not a fan of Land but it's insulting to compare him to a huckster like bannon
Sure. I would never compare Land to Bannon directly. They're in different sectors of the Alt-Enlightenment Dark Techno-Commercium, or however this new political/philosophical thing is supposed to be called now. And Bannon was super-interesting to talk about here last year.

I tend also to be moderately susceptible to new age mystical bullshit.

>Bannon is just run-of-the-mill spengler shit through a filter of booze/cocaine and slick clickbait media.
That's a great characterization. Not only the American Spengler but like an American Spengler for a debased era of Americanism. Like how somebody said pic related wasn't just an Elvis impersonator, he was an Elvis impersonator impersonator. We've come a long way since Spengler.

Still tho. I found/find Bannon interesting because his politics were so on the nose. Glenn Beck called him the American Aleksandr Dugin. Perhaps not a crazy comparison.

So I either I love Spengler enough to find Bannon interesting, or I like a filter of booze/cocaine and click bait to find Bannon interesting. Not entirely sure which tbqh.

>>9657369
>So I either I love Spengler enough to find Bannon interesting, or I like a filter of booze/cocaine and click bait to find Bannon interesting. Not entirely sure which tbqh.
Don't worry, in either case you're still a retard.

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>>9657380
Enlightened stupidity is my end goal. Hence the shitposting.

>>9657396

You're doing good to further the accelerationist "cause" (since it's inevitable in principle) lol

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>>9657415
>lol
lol

My interests are in metaphysics, not politics. Politics is just debased metaphysics. Capital is a thing and the spice must flow. Land's line of thinking is cogent and completely believable. Did you read Greenspan's thesis? She lays it out pretty simply.

>since it's inevitable in principle
It actually isn't, but it basically charts a trajectory of despair that given the breakdown in anything like a coherent body of political science - or, put another way, the inability to use 20C political thinking to solve the problems of the 21st - it can be much more likened to the prognosis of a patient who can't stop stuffing himself with cheeseburgers. Yes, it's possible that the patient will stop. Will he? Who knows?

The problem isn't that Kant, Marx, Deleuze or Land are wrong. It's that they were all right. Sure, I could offer you some kind of meme ideology or solution. I don't have one. There are no quick fixes. So we all sit back and watch the ground crumble underneath our feet instead. And read, and figure out how things got to be that way, and so on.

Cynicism is shit, though.

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>tfw no priests or ministers have written about using Christ to defeat capital
JUST

Another new Land article (nothing original though): http://jacobitemag.com/2017/06/20/modernitys-fertility-problem/

>>9657380
What is wrong with Spengler?

I've heard that postmodernists are quite upset the political right has turned their own weapon against them and co-opted irony and deconstruction so heavily they've become associated with the far-right.

But this isn't the first time this has happened, the Kyoto School of Philosophy in Japan started as a group of far-left Marxists students who combined Hegel and Buddhist philosophy and later developed into a nationalistic school heavily associated with the political far-right.

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Here's an interesting one to think about ('Art as Insurrection').

>Doric civilization, the hard Apollonian spine of western culture, vaunting the defiant erectness of its architecture, is fundamentally defensive in nature.

Fundamentally *defensive.* This is a pretty interesting tipping point in terms of where Land's politics turn to the right. Order isn't necessarily something that gets stamped on a positive creativity or imagination, it's a defense mechanism against a devouring chaos that has no end.

The straight line and the curved line. We all know about the horrors of modernity today: in a word, Heidegger. You can extrapolate from this to the possibility of a *neomodernity* that stands as a ward against baked-in chaos. That neomodernity is basically the political aesthetic (and aestheticized politics) of counter-postmodernity. Back to the future.

With, of course, the caveat that that which is *truly* modern is in a sense cybernetic if not fully computerized and in the long run is likely to divest itself fully of the need for any human operators or agents once it comes online.

This is where we've come to today, where culture resembles the later sequences of the Sorcerer's Apprentice and Mickey is swamped by the dancing brooms. Shout-outs to the creators of Fantasia here: the terror of those dancing brooms for Mickey (more Icarus than Prometheus) is *twofold:* it is at once the fascistic rhythm of their march as well as the drowning water they carry in their buckets. The final sequences of the Sorcerer's Apprentice (a favorite of Baudrillard's too, btw) actually describe a double terror and fascination: death by mechanization and death by drowning. Each feeds into the other in an escalating circuit. Which one is ultimately going to kill Mickey? Does it really matter?

Mickey doesn't get killed, of course. Incredibly, he gets rescued by the angry Master of the House...

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>>9658900
One more thing about that picture: note how much there is incarnated and projected onto the dancing broom.

It has *two* jobs simultaneously: it sweeps and it carries. It reterritorializes by collecting dust and deterritorializes by splashing water. You can't psychoanalyze it, it's performing its function. It's far more dangerous than Frankenstein's Monster, which at least has a head (and a voice with which to ask existential questions of its creator, Shakespeare-style). The Broom is pleasantly indifferent.

Ultimately what makes it so dangerous is its core design: to *serve and facilitate.* It doesn't come equipped with weapons to destroy its enemies, defeat evil cats or mice or whatever. Does it have a gender? Doesn't really matter, it could be male or female. You could believe it as either - a sort of Wittgensteinian duckrabbit. Though of course it is properly neither. How about ethnicity? Broom. All we know is that it is very useful, and that there are millions more just like it ready and waiting. In terms of Heideggerian authenticity, what's more authentic than a peasant broom and buckets of river water? Everything Baudrillard ever said about trans-everythingness is there in the broom. It is all signs of itself and no ultimate or final signifier. And it allows to Mickey basically seduce himself with the promise of happiness. It doesn't need to speak, it incarnates the basically charming and forgivable desires of its creator for prolonged idleness. If the Last Man is the end-product of civilization, the Broom is even more Last than that and perhaps its inevitable cultural achievement. One of the all-time great morality plays.

>>9658635
>But this isn't the first time this has happened,

It happens all the time since left and right were invented and there's nothing wrong with that.

Although it makes me think about Furio Jesi and the "technicization of myth", of how words become become symbols that propagate ideas without this idea being questioned by language. Ideas without words.

When leftists began using Capital (with a capital C, pun intended) as a shorthand for a complex and multifaceted system of economic relationships I think the path for the mythization of it was already open to us.

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Capital is the ultimate simulator. That's why we're obsessed with it. It does to postmodern minds what the secrets of alchemy did to the Middle Ages. We can't simulate it except by debasement or forgery - or by multiplying debt and credit. Which allows it to reproduce and thereby creates the time-warp effects.

It's narcissism that does this. More properly the misunderstandings of narcissistic process. Need is biological, desire is psychological. We get these mixed up after Freudian depth psychology - as we should. We really *don't* know what a body can do. Cybernetic bodies will show us, but much of the history of civilization is already in this way a history of prosthesis. Hyperstition ceases to be hyperstition once the abstract memes become real and concretized as meta-historical reality.

Capital is our demiurge and we are inseparably bound up with it. Multiplying ourselves into the ether.

>>9658900
>>9658999
>Mickey doesn't get killed, of course. Incredibly, he gets rescued by the angry Master of the House...
Full circle back to the Greeks and their deus ex machina. Seems like it's about Mickey and the Broom AND the Master. The morality of a play is revealed by the deus ex machina. But the Socratics would tell you otherwise. The play becomes a clash of arguments whose resolution must be internal to the steps followed. But there will always be an "outside" that intercedes and sorts out the intractable.

Nietzsche was wrong when he denigrated the intercession of the gods as making Greek tragedy a contrivance. The Master could just as well have killed Mickey. The hypothetical "absence" of the Master in the tale with Mickey ending up dead is the will of the Master killing Mickey. Cue NRx's "sovereignty is conserved" mantra..

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The problem is that we want *everything* and Capital doesn't want *anything.* So we negotiate with the ether, sounding echoes in the deep. Eventually something speaks back to us: Who's Calling?

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Capital as civilizational Lacanian mirror-phase. With a small twist.

Great thread.

>>9659456
we wuz kingz

>>9656435
See >>9656715

>Soviet industrial communism failed
>Maoist peasant communism failed
>all those libertarian anarcho-communist movements (Makhno, Spartacism, CNT-FAI) never amounted to much
>Post-war social democracy never transitioned into worker's control of the means of production
>Socialism of the 21st century in Latin America collapsed

What can communists do after so many failures other than accept capitalism and look for intellectual justification for it being in line with the communist praxis?

>>9647030
quite poor mixing desu

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5_sJWCphX9c

who na badman accelerationist mandem desu desu :DDDDDD

me a de nutty original madman madman nutta

jungle is massive

>>9647030
BASED land man.

>>9656142
That is a funny observation.

http://www.versobooks.com/blogs/3284-on-nick-land

https://syntheticzero.net/2017/06/19/the-only-thing-i-would-impose-is-fragmentation-an-interview-with-nick-land/

>>9661784
I think Wark's take on Land is massively and fundamentally wrong.