when the acceleration finally hits you >“We are all de

>>9624496

Time compression is an odd concept - at once you identify it and at the same time, it has to be too late to do anything about it. Are these people simply being too fatalist?

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>>9624545
Speaking for myself I would say that it's a question of not being fatalist enough. Lacking the courage or imagination to go where serious Out There pessimism can go.

Whoever this guy is he's a fucking tremendous writer. Some of the best and most persuasive exegesis of Land's work I've read so far. I've been reading some Deleuze & Guattari too, which also helps to understand Land. He's a serious fucking visionary.

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>Progressive civilization is not progressive at all, rather it seeks to hinder the future from giving birth to this strange new realm of being. Global capitalism is a religion and defense against the future, not its progenitor. The leaders of the world seek to encapsulate us in a time of no time, an absolute zero point of nullity, a presentism in which acceleration can be bound to the wheel of death, rather than the spiral of escape beyond the limits of the known. As Nick Land tells us: “Bataille interprets all natural and cultural development upon the earth to be side-effects of the evolution of death, because it is only in death that life becomes an echo of the sun, realizing its inevitable destiny, which is pure loss.”

>The thin line that separates Kant’s famous distinction between phenomena and the noumenon is an artificial and speculative lie, a fiction that seeks to save the human from the terror of its own demise. Consciousness is this salvatory mythology created by this distinction between subject and object, a distinction that in Bataille and Land becomes a final barrier to communication, to the fusion of materiality intensified by its continuous flow within the impersonal. Kant put a stop to this flow, froze it in the transcendental illusion: sponsoring an immobile time, static and abstract, a realm caught between the limits of a false alliance to consciousness and a distancing from its roots in the energetic unconscious. Imprisoned in a cage of epistemological logicism Kant gave birth to the capitalist regime of pure death: a realm of abstract and transcendental illusions that have bound us to a thanatropic culture for two-hundred years.

And then Nietzsche popped that shit open again. Deleuze and Guattari connected it to Capital. Now Land is following it into outer space.

Continental philosophy. How can anything be this awesome.

>>9624545
Incidentally this is stuff that Zizek talks about, borrowing some of it from Sartre, how people can retroactively rewrite the meaning of the past and so on in this existential way, how possible events/actions in the future can rewrite the meaning of the past. That sense of everything always-already being too late is something he talks about, together with guilt and psychotherapy and so on.

Where do I start with Accelerationism, boys? I've read a handful of passages by Land and despite the technobabble meme, I think I get the surface of what he's saying but I want to really explore it.

>>9624652
"First as Tragedy, Then as Farts"

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>it's yet another Nick Land thread

This video is very related (warning: contains occult knowledge; think before you share this video)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lbcN5FN-Lok

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>>9624652
fanged noumena, essay 1

you can get the accelerationist reader too

read the manifesto
https://syntheticedifice.files.wordpress.com/2013/06/accelerate.pdf

important: read deleuze and guattari to rinse the marxism out of your system

this is good
http://ndpr.nd.edu/news/posthuman-life-philosophy-at-the-edge-of-the-human/

there's lots

>>9624654
(you)

>>9624659
yep

>>9624662
(you)

>>9624676
Hi nick

So if I get this right, in a very simple sense Land posits that EVERYTHING exists ultimately to die, because death essentially erases phenomena, and Acceleration is the idea that things that are alive progressively contribute to faster and more efficient conceptual death, until we break the threshold where 'we' are never conceptually alive in the first place (Transhumanism, or hyper-Automation) and noumena and phenomena become inseparable inseparable as they were always intended to be?

>>9624682
that is pretty much the most optimistic interpretation of his thought.

>>9624693
>everything exists to die
>most optimistic interpretation
Damn
I know Land's also talked about Capital existing to exponentially procreate itself, and that life is only a temporary byproduct of the evolution of Capital - but that sounds rather prescriptive. Seems more likely that the exponential growth of Capital is an emergent property of the evolution of death.

>>9624682
>>9624701
Also in order for this to work Land has to be positing that the ship of Theseus has already sailed, otherwise even after the Transhumanism event horizon death will continue to be bogged down by phenomenon-driven thought.

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>>9624681
not nick

>>9624682
not the worst interpretation, except that that everything you are describing cannot really encompass the horizon of capital itself

capital is meta-everything, it's really Outside in that sense

he's taking deleuze and guattari and looking at them kind of in reverse, which is why they (and land) are important

this book is a good primer on a lot of this too

>>9624714
Thanks, will check it out. Land's concept of Capitalism is the thing I'm most sketchy on.

>>9624676
>yep

I'm tempted to fill this thread with Catholic shitposting.

>>9624714
>capitalism is meta-everything
Yeah it's funny how a term once all its denotative content has been hollowed out can be ascribed to just everything. Seriously y'all niggas need Wittgenstein.

>>9624714
Okay nick.

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hyperstition is starting to make sense to me now also, it's not even that crazy. it's the moment when the memes become real

so much pseud-deconstruction is failing to see the forest for the trees as a kind of misplaced humanism. irony itself creates the conditions of the real in a cultural sense. what is basically happening now is that capital knows more about us than we know about it

so either we can lapse into having our fantasies spoon fed to us like docile little puppies or we can accept the strange and weird possibility that we are really in a world where there isn't a difference between imagination and reality, b/c all of this shit tinkers with the future in ways that are very very real

the age of the meme makes a lot of sense, like a cultural technology that winds up producing shit that is actually real

whatever tho

>>9624496
>“We are all deep in a hell each moment of which is a miracle.” – Emile Cioran. Ours is a culture of the excrescence of death, a thanatopic pursuit not of profit but of total annihilation. The principle of deregulation inherent in global capitalism is inextinguishable from the total acceleration of a deterritorialized, systematic and efficient cannibalism, one that seeks to incorporate every last niche of biopower within a machinic phylum – a civilization of machinic and technocratic infestation from which there is no reprieve. The question is whether one accepts the truth of this and joins the comedy of destruction and implosion (helps it along, gives it a push), or whether one spends one’s time in the factories of oblivion, illusory worlds of decaying narratives of disorder and madness spinning out of control, reversions to outworn heresies of a bankrupt and decadent ethno-apocalypse by way of irony and fake solutions.

Did the author mean inextinguishable or indistinguishable?

>>9624738
>capital knows
Are you so far gone that you can't see how that phrase is absolute nonsense?

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>>9624722
good luck

>>9624725
go for it, we love catholics

>>9624733
the wittgensteinian monastery silence-barrier is potentially the last line of defense against azathoth

>>9624737
srsly i mean it

>>9624742
i don't know. for a smart guy he has a lot of weird typos. i think he meant indistinguishable

>>9624744
makes sense 2 me senpai. i'm on the land rover now

>>9624744
Seems about as unrealistic as "natural selection"

>>9624757
>Wittgenstein monastery
silence-barrier
Another phrase with no sense.

>makes sense to me
It doesn't, you are just being defensive and coquettish.

>>9624757
Nick plz

>>9624757
>go for it, we love catholics

Do you? Because it seems to me that Catholicism's vision of the future--and by that I mean The End--doesn't jive with Land's, simply because The End for Catholicism is the Second Coming. Christ rolls back up in all his unspeakable glory and puts all things to right. It would, ultimately, reveal Land's Capital as just another false god, all its reality-munching self-proliferation wiped away like so much dust on a window.

>>9624765
Too right. It's funny how meaningless two word phrases have such an impact on retards.

>>9624787
Jesus is the anti-capital.

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>>9624773
it's not that complicated

restless & relentless unconscious production is what produces capital

>Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent.

aka be still and know. this causes the alien space monster that feasts on your desires great pain. wittgenstein is the wise & cruel pai mei to the beatrix kiddo of desire

>you are just being defensive and coquettish
not defensive at all, i'm just taking the brakes off for a bit

>>9624793
Yeah, pretty much.

>The Passover of the Jews was near, and Jesus went up to Jerusalem. And He found in the temple those who were selling oxen and sheep and doves, and the money changers seated at their tables. And He made a scourge of cords, and drove them all out of the temple, with the sheep and the oxen; and He poured out the coins of the money changers and overturned their tables; and to those who were selling the doves He said, “Take these things away; stop making My Father’s house a place of business.”

>>9624803
>whereof one cannot speak...
>aka be still an know
Except that's wrong you fag; if that were what he meant he would not have written several books. Also
>wittgenstein is summed up in one sentence from the introduction of his first book

>taking the breaks off
I appreciate that but please why shill for Nick Land? Am I missing something I keep coming into these threads but I'm starting to feel like it's just another meme like Infinite Book.

Surely Nick doesn't really think that capital has sentience?

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>>9624778
not nick

>>9624787
i'm not anti-catholic & it's worth remembering that nick land loves jordan peterson

https://twitter.com/outsideness/status/804359811840102400

the enemy is not capital in and of itself but the monstrously mediocre demi-fascism of unpilled normies

going to church is infinitely more radical than changing your gender, wearing a trump hat and is arguably the endgame of cleaning your room kermit-style also

what the nick hand deterritorializes the peterson hand reterritorializes and in the end the catholics will be proven correct

silence is ultimately the answer

read pic related. nietzsche heidegger and wittgenstein were all dealing with christianity and i agree

but maybe life has to get real dark on earth before the church makes sense again

idk

just a pseud

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>>9624826
he really only wrote two books and the second repudiated the first

give the man a break

i'm not shilling for nick land, it's just fucking interesting ya big dingus

we wuz stars

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>>9624793
also this

the peter thiel-rene girard connection is worth thinking about

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>>9624844
Okay I can appreciate that. It is fun and I've honestly always wanted to live in BladeRunner

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>>9624832
I suppose most of my objections to Land are actually not philosophical, but mystical and supernatural. Land seems to believe that capitalism has generated its own kind of mystical continuum. In keeping with his theme of Capital as God, he seems to think it's created an entire mystic framework: souls, an afterlife, ghosts, fairies, the whole old medieval reality, the true numinous because back in the day it was invested with a belief in its actuality, its genuine reality. It seems to me Land thinks that there's almost a new "capitalist supernatural" that's arisen and replaced the old stuff.

I find myself in conflict with this as a devout Catholic, since of course I believe the old supernatural never really went away. It's like the old nerd debate of science vs magic, but it's actually real instead of being confined to the pages of comic books. It's a matter of either believing in digital ghosts or spectral ghosts. At least that's how I see things.

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>>9624869
i do too sometimes, not as much as nick land does

and blade runner is of the greatest films of all time

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>>9624883
i understand that

reading continental philosophy and trying to cheese-grater my own heart only made me realize how fucking nonsensical it is to try and do philosophy or even really live and not try to have a dawning sense of the mystical

for me the great value of land's work is that like nietzsche it eradicates cynicism

nick land wants to be as cold as he can and in some ways that's doing an important service to civilization in at least alerting us to the dangers of selling everything off

people are cynical fucking idiots but somebody has to be the canary in the coal mine. nobody has to follow him all the way and secretly i think that he like the rest of us is only responding in despair to something beautiful that is receding from view, so he turns back thought against the corroding power much as has always been done. some problems can't get fixed with the warm fuzzes so he is basically trying to wedge an ice-pick into the heart of capitalism with his mind

for what it's worth i wish you the best anon

that was some cringe blog-tier shitposting but w/ev, life is short

Is paradise or the garden of eden or whatever reactionaries view as the previous better world simply a metaphor for childhood and when Jesus says you have to become like little children to enter the kingdom of heaven and when heaven and the resurrection are described as paradise is it just talking about fucking reincarnation? I'm literally shaking.

>>9624913
I do agree with you on certain points. I find Nietzsche deeply valuable for the same reasons you say you find Land valuable. Nietzsche is great at wiping away illusions, or at least illusions that accrue to us through inertia and merely going with the flow. And I suppose if Land operates in the same capacity, he's valuable too.

I suppose the time for my sort of thinking will be the aftermath, whatever that looks like.

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>>9624946
bear in mind also that while Land is not a big fan of Christianity it is ultimately Protestantism-as-defection and ultimately the forerunner of all things "liberal"/secular/progressive/atomized that he really reserves his big rockets for

for me at least it's why i like Girard. the greatest literary critic and diagnostician of memes since Jean Baudrillard. and a Catholic.

land often talks about life in hell, about how hell is the forge of virtue and so on, but for Catholics, well...it's complicated, isn't it?

many of the greatest atheist philosophers in the Western tradition were still fundamentally indebted to Christianity: the Mulhall book explains more. without the Church there's nothing at the centre even for the wildest and most outlandish feats of speculative reason - witness Land's own bete noire of atomization. the more we defect, the more we produce atomization, niche, nuance, difference, the more capital thrives. of course there is a difference between ethically positive and ethically negative difference - in a word, nietzschean/deleuzian joyous affirmation vs. mere simulacral memery/irony/I Got Mine. but you understand all this

nothing more radical today than being a Catholic to my mind. if anything land to me just signals where the alternatives lie

good luck thinking my man

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>>9624998
I have not read Girard, but I'm thinking I need to. He seems deeply interesting.

I'll get to him when I'm done with Benedict's "Jesus of Nazareth" books. Thanks for the recommendation.

>>9625011
Benedict was a great scholar and a very humble man who did not desire the task he was given. I feel bad when people shit on him, he doesn't really deserve it.

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>>9625011
my pleasure, girard is my all-time fave guy so i'm happy to share. i think you'll enjoy that reading

going to check out that book too

>>9624998
>>9625035
Where should I start with Girard if I like to get at the architectonic of a thinker and not just snipe at his best soundbites or flashiest works?

>>9624826

>Surely Nick doesn't really think that capital has sentience?

This esoteric interpretation ought to be popular with the Baudrillard and Battaile folks, but no he does not mean anything as such. But why does the Capital require sentience to act AS IF it had motivations and purpose? Sure you don't believe bees in a hive (including and specially the queen) are acting according to their own will, but there is also no need to ascribe the status of sentience to the emergent effects happening across the hive itself (reproduction and search for food and elaborate defenses).

It is common sense by now in complex system theory and statistical physics that emergence plays an important factor in every phenomena involving large numbers of individuals. Like other emergent effects, the Capital cannot be explained out by any model, no matter how exquisite, of its single components (people or commodities or whatever you use for the model). It arrives only at the macro level and is heavily non-linear. And it acts "out of its own volition" not as if it has sentience, but as if it has a drive, like a swarm of ants building a bridge out of themselves as if the whole swarm had a single will: to get to the other side of the precipice. We apply our human individuation to bees and ants in order to claim the queens are totalitarian leaders, but in reality they are no less pawns than the rest of the colony, serving their own pheromones and instincts to perpetuate the Colony, which actually can be considered to be a thing-in-itself, even if an emergent one which depends on the collective. But then again, our own conscience is just like that, as neurons are not really that interesting in standalone.

Also I can't see how does Witty play into this; He actually wrote the Tractatus and thought he zeroed in on the whole of philosophy, stopping work altogether for several years. Then when he was much older he came back for a second round with Philosophical Investigations where he talks about Language-games. And then he's out again. If anything that guy is correct, not engaging in things which will lead you to Accelerationism is the only way to not accelerate, which is what Witty was very good at doing (and also painting houses).

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>>9625097
>ask a girardfag about girard
>fuck yeah

Start here, go check it out. Lots of good FAQs and downloads and so on.
https://www.ravenfoundation.org
https://www.ravenfoundation.org/faqs/

Palaver's book - pictured here - is a good introduction. Can do worse than this.

For literary stuff, Desire Deceit & the Novel is where he founds his theory of mimetic desire, and then there's more of that in his book on Shakespeare. I can't tell you much about that, since I just ordered it today. But DDN is excellent, especially if you are into capital-G capital-B Great Books.

Violence and The Sacred, The Scapegoat, and Things Hidden Since the Foundation of the World are his more cultural and anthropological studies. If you're interested in scapegoat theory and so on, that's there.

Battling to the End is also good but that's for after you've read some of the other stuff. The Girard Reader has lots of other stuff.

He's got a lot of shit to talk about. I got into him after reading a lot of analysis - basically, desire and mimetics. So the core stuff is his theory of triangular desire. He's basically a god-tier cultural critic who is neither a Marxist, a Freudian, or a phenomenologist. Some people don't like him because he's got a Theory of Everything, but I happen to subscribe to that theory of everything.

In the interests of balance, you can go back and read Landy's criticism later - although it actually might work as an introduction to the man's thought also.

http://arcade.stanford.edu/rofl/deceit-desire-and-literature-professor-why-girardians-exist

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>>9625109
Stellar post.

>how does Witty play into this
You basically answered this, which is what I was getting at.

>not engaging in things which will lead you to Accelerationism is the only way to not accelerate, which is what Witty was very good at doing (and also painting houses).

People are drawn to capital - which, in the depths of psychoanalysis land, is libidinal/narcissistic/and much, much weirder - like moths to a flame. But, we can know this...

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text for the text god

Warrants mentioning also that Deleuze and Guattari were already on to the idea of the wasp/orchid parallels. Although it's not like Mandeville himself wasn't already understanding bees and capital back when...

Anyways, more interestingness on Bee-ing and time:
>inb4 kys

>Ah, there is the progressive catch of the true Leftist, we must “draw the lines of a new ethics in order to be able to retain our humanity in the course of the trans-human transition”. So that Berardi like a good son of Kant would like to keep one foot in prison just in case this transitional moment into the posthuman future ends in failure; a hedging of one’s bets, a capitalist move of risk assessment and profit for the human(ist) vision of the transcendental illusion. Yet, as Land admits this is an old trick of the Left, a rearguard action to conserve while acting the part of the radical: “Humanity is a petrified fiction hiding from zero, a purgatorial imprisonment of dissolution, but to be stricken with sanctity is to bask in death like a reptile in the sun” (Land, p. 131).

>Being is the last illusion of a dead metaphysics. Philosophy is this dark betrayal that has constructed the very lie of civilization from its beginnings till now. “Being derives only a vanishing speck of an eliminative negativity. The overwhelmingly preponderant part of its deviance stems from its irresolvable composition, beyond which there is only idealist phantasmatics” (Land, p. 158). Under the sign of elimination being begins to dissolve its hold on us and slips away into its own illusory system of fictions. Breaking with the logic of salvation, of the humanist paradigm, we follow the convulsions of hazard, break free from the Kantian nihil negativum (Land) and begin to float among the tributary whirls of the coming data storm, freed to pursue a antilogical cosmism in which the irresolvable improbability, irrational negation, and interminable compositional intricacy of interwoven spaces of aberration corrupt the earth and everything on it – a labyrinth of desiring machines roaming the bad lands of futurity implode upon us like metalloid locust from an alien slipstream.

Source:
https://socialecologies.wordpress.com/2017/06/08/the-suicidal-civilization-technopessimism-and-the-coming-collapse/#more-95363

>>9625109
>>9625188
So by Capital he means something in the way of the Superego but in this case the Id had become superior to the Ego?

>>9624787
>>9624806
That seems to me like he was trying to protect religion from Capital's incursion, not that he was against Capital period. Christianity is in many ways a primer on how to be useful human capital.

>>9625324
If Land is right, then Capital will conquer everything. Even if he's only partly right, it's almost certainly the case that Capital will assimilate anything that tries to accommodate it.

And anyway, near as I can tell, Christ's point is that God just flat out doesn't have a use for Capital. God is self-sufficient, and anyone who wants to follow God needs, as it were, to be God-sufficient. God is almost the mirror of Capital, it seems--and like Capital, with sufficient devotion to Him God winds up crowding out everything else in life. But that's the point, isn't it? At least it is in Christianity. Christians are meant to belong to God, and so they no longer fit in the world, which belongs to Capital.

>>9625149
>http://arcade.stanford.edu/rofl/deceit-desire-and-literature-professor-why-girardians-exist

i thought something was up when i saw the "rofl" in a stanford.edu url, but my nostrils were not ready for:

>Reading 2. Hamlet is unhappy because he, like all of us, is full of body thetans

almost blew a booger on a my keyboard for that one f a m

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>>9625320
>So by Capital he means something in the way of the Superego but in this case the Id had become superior to the Ego?

Kind of. It's helpful also to consider this through the perspective of Deleuze and Guattari as well as via Freud/Lacan/Zizek, since there are these two paths through psychoanalysis and Land is following from D&G, who are basically trying to explode Freud.

For Freud et al, the conscious mind is under siege from the unconscious, which it is repressing. For D&G, however, the conscious mind is basically throttling the unconscious, which is properly "schizophrenic" - don't read that too literally.

Our own drives feed consumption, which drives capital. This is boilerplate Freudo-Marxism of course. Under the presumption that we are rational Ego-beings we feed it with the Id, and I suppose in the long run it might become Superego when it wakes up in the technological singularity Land anticipates.

That said, trying to look at Land's work using Freudian vocabulary doesn't really do it justice (although in a certain sense I suppose it doesn't matter all that much). Deleuze and Guattari are going to talk about flows, flows of capital and desire that basically overwrite everything.

Check out Anti-Oedipus, it's an incredible read. D&G basically don't separate or draw any lines between capital and desire at all, and this can extend all the way to include theory as well: even criticizing capital can reproduce capital, just as submitting to the laws of Oedipus and castration symbolically reproduces those rules of Oedipus and castration.

For Land Capital is, in a sense, only unconsciously superegoic, I would say - hence the idea of retrochronicity, that it represents the alien attack from the future and so on, the really crazy stuff like Roko's Basilisk. Personally I find there's more than enough meat on the bone as it is without having to dedicate too much time to the really outer-fringe parts of his thought tho.

Maybe that other anon can present a clearer answer tho.

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>>9625348
Yeah, mercifully there are no thetans in Girard's work. He's just got a nice elegant old-school theory of reading great literature. No shenanigans required.

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>>9625324
>>9625346
&whoever

>The logical consequence of Social Darwinism is that everything of value has been built in Hell.

>It is only due to a predominance of influences that are not only entirely morally indifferent, but indeed — from a human perspective — indescribably cruel, that nature has been capable of constructive action. Specifically, it is solely by way of the relentless, brutal culling of populations that any complex or adaptive traits have been sieved — with torturous inefficiency — from the chaos of natural existence. All health, beauty, intelligence, and social grace has been teased from a vast butcher’s yard of unbounded carnage, requiring incalculable eons of massacre to draw forth even the subtlest of advantages. This is not only a matter of the bloody grinding mills of selection, either, but also of the innumerable mutational abominations thrown up by the madness of chance, as it pursues its directionless path to some negligible preservable trait, and then — still further — of the unavowable horrors that ‘fitness’ (or sheer survival) itself predominantly entails. We are a minuscule sample of agonized matter, comprising genetic survival monsters, fished from a cosmic ocean of vile mutants, by a pitiless killing machine of infinite appetite. (This is still, perhaps, to put an irresponsibly positive spin on the story, but it should suffice for our purposes here.)

>Crucially, any attempt to escape this fatality — or, more realistically, any mere accidental and temporary reprieve from it — leads inexorably to the undoing of its work. Malthusian relaxation is the whole of mercy, and it is the greatest engine of destruction our universe is able to bring about. To the precise extent that we are spared, even for a moment, we degenerate — and this Iron Law applies to every dimension and scale of existence: phylogenetic and ontogenetic, individual, social, and institutional, genomic, cellular, organic, and cultural. There is no machinery extant, or even rigorously imaginable, that can sustain a single iota of attained value outside the forges of Hell.

>What is it that Neoreaction — perhaps I should say The Dark Enlightenment — has to offer the world, if all goes optimally (which, of course, it won’t)? Really, the honest answer to this question is: Eternal Hell. It’s not an easy marketing brief. We could perhaps try: But it could be worse (and almost certainly will be).

http://www.xenosystems.net/hell-baked/

I found the lamest pic imaginable to go with this, maybe anons here can find a more appropriate or fitting one.

is there any fiction based on these concepts? like fiction based in a time period where capital is about to overtake humanity?

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>>9624682
>Beyond the sobs of the troubadours of the Sublime lies the ocean of darkness, a realm where we who meld into the folds of oblivion chart the destiny of stars like members of an endless assemblage, a swarming cellular mass of inexistence that vanishes in the deepest abyss of zero. The data storm is flowing out of the future and into our lives, we have only to surrender to its accelerating annihilation, float among the debris of dead and dying civilizations like insects in a inexistent holodeck, members of a strange and terrible world that seeks to absorb us into its interminable labyrinth. Shall we follow?

Source:
https://socialecologies.wordpress.com/2017/06/08/the-suicidal-civilization-technopessimism-and-the-coming-collapse/#more-95363

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>>9625477
Land actually writes some fiction-fiction as well as theory fiction, but I haven't spent much time with it.

That he likes Neuromancer is no great surprise, since he's sort of like the house philosopher of cyberpunk. Maybe he read Neal Stephenson or Peter Watts at some.

I think he liked Snowpiercer and on his blog he was raving about the new Ghost in the Shell.

>t. guy who suddenly realizes he knows way too much about nick land
>i'm okay with this

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also, and because why not, d'vorah the explorah.

>>9625510
Is there anything that explicitly deals with accelerationism and concepts like gnon?

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>>9625542
Land described pic related as "utterly magnificent."
http://www.xenosystems.net/quote-note-157/

Beyond that, other fiction that deals specifically with accelerationism and Gnon? Can't think of any at the moment. But there's lots of good sci-fi. If he disliked PKD I'd be very surprised.

Will put this up here too, worth a read for anons into this stuff. Definitely lots of material there to get your noggin' floggin'.
https://www.urbanomic.com/book/accelerate/

>>9625477
Void Star and Blindsight both strongly give off the vibe that humanity is on the verge of obsolescence.

So is the endgame, at least according to Land's line of thinking, that eventually capital will supplant humanity? I believe I read somewhere that Land said humanity is currently capitals host, not its master, which implies eventually humanity will be overthrown?
If that is the case, the only sensible timeline where this happens is through some kind of self-replicating AI, yes? Are humans just thrown aside like trash to decay on our own, or would this new technogod actively seek to destroy humanity?

I like reading Land and his colleagues but there is so much jargon that I am unfamiliar with (I haven't studied much continental philosophy) that I often feel like my understanding is hardly even surface level

Where does Land talk about what capital is? Like where does he define it. Saying it's identical to singularity or death are characterizations but the literal connection isn't explained.

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Dude like, what if leaving the oven on causes a semantic nuclear apocalypse? What if the barcode in my ramen pack is actually sentient and what it really wants isn't my money but the dreams and feeling that money represents in the australopithencine compartment of my mon(k)ey software? What if my vaporizer is actually God's penis (not the Christian God btw, but what God meant to the Christian God)? You think if I keep appropriating more jargon and keep trying to make philosophy into gut reactions I'll finally manage to put myself above the physical and metaphysical plebs without making any compromise? But then what will I owe and to whom? You think if I find anything else to fret about this cold will go away?

Shit man, I'm not even mad. You clowns are funny as hell.

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>>9625674
Great post, anon!

>>9625594
>>9625647
Maybe he's talking about AI, but he could also be speaking about the haves and have nots, with the "have nots" representing humanity as a whole. Think Elysium.

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>>9625647
>So is the endgame, at least according to Land's line of thinking, that eventually capital will supplant humanity? I believe I read somewhere that Land said humanity is currently capitals host, not its master, which implies eventually humanity will be overthrown?
Basically yes. We are hosting capital right now via consumption (and banking, which is why NL is so hip to the idea of bitcoin and what it potentially represents also, I believe, because it won't be tied to fiat currency and gold reserves, which will skew a lot of narratives).

>If that is the case, the only sensible timeline where this happens is through some kind of self-replicating AI, yes?
Entirely possible. Or post/transhuman ubermenschen. Whether this means Multiplicity starring Peter Thiel or CRISPR babies in China or Elon Musk and Ray Kurzweil uploading themselves or the Age of Em or Skynet nobody knows. But whatever it is it's all happening through capital.

>Are humans just thrown aside like trash to decay on our own, or would this new technogod actively seek to destroy humanity?
Nick Bostrom is very concerned about this. So is Sam Harris. A lot of people are. On top of that there's this idea of an intelligence revolution realizing that it can do away with all of humanity in a microsecond. Maybe it destroys us out of some horrible sense of mercy. Anything is possible. But we're rapidly building our way towards finding out. Every Chicken McNugget gets us closer.

>I like reading Land and his colleagues but there is so much jargon that I am unfamiliar with (I haven't studied much continental philosophy) that I often feel like my understanding is hardly even surface level
This is /lit/. Nobody knows anything here. Just read what you like and ask questions you're interested in.

>>9625661
>Where does Land talk about what capital is? Like where does he define it. Saying it's identical to singularity or death are characterizations but the literal connection isn't explained.

He doesn't define it so much because he's following from these guys. This is the book you need to read. It should basically just be understood as the prolegomena for all Land threads. Capital is a kind of deterritorializing/reterritorializing power fundamentally built into our minds. All of the time-warp/unconscious stuff you need to know is in here. The difference is that Land isn't a revolutionary in the same way that Deleuze & Guattari are. The whole idea here is to think capital in this new way: it's not anti-Marxist but it's not classically Marxist either. Capital is this process of mechanic assembly and reassembly that is just part of who we are and how we think about things. Which is why it's damn near impossible to understand how it works. Much in the same way for Oedipus. It's wired into us and tied to our minds.

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>>9625684
Oh, throw me a bone here! You know how boring it gets when you can just brush all this stuff aside without a second thought? I've been looking for a good honest-to-God philosophical scare for weeks and all I'm getting from you guys is the same babble about losing your personality/dreams/projects/soul/whathaveyou with a techno coat of paint! I just can't take this stuff seriously.

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>>9625717
>The difference is that Land isn't a revolutionary in the same way that Deleuze & Guattari are

I'm going to take that back. He is. He's just interested in the deep-space Kantian cold rather than the joyously dancing Nietzschean vitalism. Talking about Singaporean micro-states or the Awesome Economic Power of China is more what he's into. It really can become seductive too.

But it all runs on envy and mimesis...

>>9625717
thanks anon I appreciate the explanations

>>9625752
Congrats, you're the ubermensch

>>9625717
woah you helped me here. I haven't read that book yet but I've been studying deleuze on his own and something clicked. Reporting back with results later

t. Second guy you replied to

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>>9625793
my pleasure

>>9625799
awesome, looking forward to it. deleuze&guattari go go go

girardfag is fucking crazy

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>>9625795
I know I am That, but what That art Thou?

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>>9625799
this is good too if you're planning on getting into C&S

>>9625831
true

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>tfw you realize that /lit/ is genuinely, unironically one of the best places on the internet to talk about both reactionary and neoreactionary thought

I can't say I blame people for thinking Land himself comes here. At least here we attempt to appreciate him.

>>9624787
>It would, ultimately, reveal Land's Capital as just another false god

it is though

>>9624676
>deleuze and guattari to rinse the marxism out of your system

what? d&g were staunch marxists as far as i'm aware...i think anti-oedipus is more marxist perhaps on the idea of money but i dont think AtP escapes marxism

by all means disprove me

this is manuel de landa's big critique of deleuze (de landa is a deleuzean who thinks marx was "wrong about almost everything")

>>9626207
That is because on most sites you would likely get called a racist thus ending any discussion

>>9625477

As far as anime goes, Texhnolyze and Serial Experiments Lain are probably the best examples. Evangelion has similar themes about humanity being obsolete.

What I'm curious about is why nearly everyone imagines the posthuman overman to be a malevolent monster. Isn't something like a JC Denton/Helios just as likely?

>>9626288
Probably because most examples of "superior" beings coming into contact with "inferior" beings is pretty negative.
Humanity might live in harmony with some kind of overmind for a time but I think eventually humanity, unless we become like the overmind, would at the least be made second class persons.

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>>9626251
>rise the Marxism out of your system
Good point. You're right and I should qualify this.

D&G were influenced by Marxism but to my mind the portrait of capital they present (and the goals of schizoanalysis) transform Freudo-Marxism by internalization. Which is why both Badiou and Zizek admire Deleuze, dislike Guattari and seem to lament the influence Guattari had on C&S.

So yes, they were Marxists, it's true. But they're also (now) patron saints of acceleration, which is now drifting towards something that could be called Right Marxism (or futurism), and as such isn't really the left-Marxism of old.

If people schizo-accelerate/whatever *into* it, then...that's what I mean. Marxism as it was practiced before them (or "through" them) was of a qualitatively different kind than before.

>We have not at all minimized the importance of preconscious investments of class or interest, which are based in the infrastructure itself. But we attach all the more importance to them as they are the index in the infrastructure of a libidinal investment of another nature, and that can coincide as well as clash with them. Which is merely a way to pose the question, "How can the revolution be betrayed?" -once it has been said that betrayals don't wait their turn, but are there from the very start (the maintenance of paranoiac unconscious investments in revolutionary groups). And if we put forward desire as a revolutionary agency, it is because we believe that capitalist society can endure many manifestations of interest, but not one manifestation of desire, which would be enough to make its fundamental structures explode, even at the kindergarten level.

>No political program will be elaborated within the framework of schizoanalysis. Finally, schizoanalysis is something that does not claim to be speaking for anything or anyone...we are still too competent; we would like to speak in the name of an absolute incompetence...

>so what is the relationship between schizoanalysis and politics on the one hand, and between schizoanalysis and psychoanalysis on the other? Everything revolves around desiring-machines and the production of desire. Schizoanalysis as such does not raise the problem of the nature of the socius to come out of the revolution; it does not claim to be identical with the revolution itself.

>For the new earth ("In truth, the earth will one day become a place of healing'') is not to be found in the neurotic or perverse reterritorializations that arrest the process or assign it goals; it is no more behind than ahead, it coincides with the completion of the process of desiring-production, this process that is always and already complete as it proceeds, and as long as it proceeds.

If you would, talk about DeLanda's critique tho, that will probably be more helpful. Basically I should have just said they weren't Freudo-Marxists.
>which is obviously perfectly fucking obvious to everyone

Also posting industrial scapes b/c why not.

>>9626297

>Probably because most examples of "superior" beings coming into contact with "inferior" beings is pretty negative.

Can't argue with that.

Well, at this point I'm hoping that the "humans are the reproductive organs of machines" theory is true, and they at least keep us around for that purpose.

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>>9626288
>Evangelion has similar themes about humanity being obsolete.
If anything, it's the opposite. Instumentality doesn't represent progress or evolution but a return to a womb-like primeval state without boundaries, motherly parallels included. Remember that while the FAR and the Seeds are more powerful than humans, it's the latter that derive from the former still. If anything is obsolete in by the End of Evangelion it's that kind of superbeing, not humanity as we know it; Yui/Eva-01 even ends up as an eternal testament of humanity's existence.

Now Getter Robo, that might be a better fit for what you want.

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>>9626320
And more qualifications...
>Badiou and Zizek admire Deleuze
>but anon, fascism of the potato

Yes. Also true. But Badiou also wrote this about Deleuze, much later:

>So how can we evoke him for our times? Why is it so obvious that he is by our side, even in the ironic distance of his perpetual retreat from the frontline where we were fighting against reactive infamy?

>...fight the spirit of finitude, fight the false innocence, the morality of defeat and resignation implicit in the word 'finitude' and tiresome 'modest' proclamations about the finite destiny of the human creature; and in one affirmative prescription: trust only in the infinite. For Deleuze, the concept is the trajectory of its real components 'at infinite speed'. And thought is nothing more than a burning to a chaotic infinity, to the 'Chaosmos'. Yes, that is the frontline I was talking about earlier, the frontline where he stands alongside us, and by doing so proves himself to be a very important contemporary: let thought be faithful to the infinity on which it depends.

So there you go. Badiou, who is a staunch Marxist, nevertheless finds himself in at least some sense on common ground with Deleuze later on, even after all the fascist potatoes.

>>9626288
Virtue is dangerous to those who don't have it.

>>9626321
Eventually machines would be capable of reproducing and also collecting the materials necessary to do so much faster than humans could without becoming some kind of technogod ourselves.
And humanity could only impose Asimov style rules for so long.
Humanity as we know it will either become slaves to a superior (probably robotic entity) or become robotic ourselves. Even then I believe it is only a matter of time before an AI of some kind sees little utility in us and takes action, probably not genocidal though.

>>9625752
Maybe the blind brain theory will be something for your liking?

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>>9626536
Seems to rely on the same attachment to people's concept of self. Apparently it's disconcerting to not know how this one organ is processing information (which we're supposed to be), even though the thing has been running more or less fine for a couple millenia, even though all our discoveries have been made, not by chance, but because we've been looking for secrets, even though there's no evidence anywhere for a real permanence, conceptually, but hey we're still going to keep mapping this place because that's very important, and it shows in that we can make a giant fart machine in outer space because we have an inferiority complex and can't stand silence (which doesn't even exist anyway).

It's so tiring. If I had access to a billion libraries of Alexandria I would nuke them all, one button at a time. You people and your mental pacifiers.

>>9626730
I like that image anon

>>9626320
great reply, thanks, my man

have you read Andrew Culp's Dark Deleuze? maybe i'll make a thread about it

>>9627617
I have, it's definitely an interesting read. I suppose I'm still so floored by the "regular" reading of Deleuze that I don't feel much need to explore Culp's version, but not because it's uninteresting. Really just because it's already an embarrassment of riches.

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So Land and Accelerationism and all this stuff is certainly good for noggin mastication.

The propagation and dissemination of these sorts of ideas on somewhere like 4chan and in particular /lit/ is also pretty intriguing for me. Like who else is actually going to bother reading through all this stuff if not time rich, meaningful activity poor lit neeks?

Will be fun watching these ideas percolate, I mean obviously they already are but the fact that these threads seem to be increasing in frequency and "accelerating" is fascinating in and of itself.

I'm a fucking stupid pleb but just to throw my worthless tuppence into the pile of burning faggots, I'd be inclined to agree that the only alternative to a headlong dive into this stuff is a form of disengaged silence. Wether that be through Wittgenstein, Zen, Buddhism or some sort of corporatised managerial "mindfullness". I don't think the specific strain or genre of silence is necessarily important, more that the process of just sitting and not doing engenders something that is the antithesis of nuerotic self replicating capital.

I also find it all a bit melodramatic, like sure everything feels a bit fucked and messy and maybe the shiny bio-punk AI overlords will either destroy or redeem us, but maybe they won't. Maybe all that will happen is a long slow movement into some sort of anti-climatic middle ground that still leaves humans doing the same things we've been doing for millenia. Grubbing around in the dirt and blindly stumbling through life, occasionally grasping the odd insight here and there.

Basically I sometimes feel that all these high falutin' bleeding edge technological doomsday/rapture/utopian theories are really just a way to distract from the mundane and banal everyday realities of our lives and boring and banal humans.

You will probably just get old and tired and fat like most people and the AI/Capital/Gnon/God won't save you or damn you to hell. If anything "it" won't give a fuck.

Anyway, that's a ramble. Probably makes no sense.

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>>9628956
I regard Capital as a kind of a muse. There are basically two ways of writing about it - one philosophically, the other via fictions. Somewhere along the way, or in the background, those two lines connect. If you approach the subject too metaphysically you wind up sounding like an ideologue (or just insane) and if you approach it too naively you wind up writing ideological trash.

There is a turning point where it starts to become hard to look away, esp if you are a shut-in introvert who just wants to brood on these things, and for some folk there's nothing more edgy or provocative than continental theory. So I started reading this stuff because I wanted to see how the world worked, and then how metaphysicians described the mind working. But eventually there comes a point where you can't not see it, and which manifests as a kind of a paranoia.

And paranoia is unbecoming. Personally, I think the way to deal with this stuff is through mindfulness, or through art. Or through the process of philosophical articulation and conversation (which is why /lit/ is such a great place). Kind of finding some way to make peace with the world, or situate yourself in a group or context where the voices in your head become stilled for a while or can otherwise be used productively instead of critically, because there is no end to criticism.

For myself I became interested in philosophy because I am a failed writer, and the more I fail to write the more I shitpost about philosophy. I'd like to think someday that I could complete a piece of fiction that might alleviate some of the need to see Capital everywhere, so that's what I'm working on. And then just go out anonymously into the world and be another boring and invisible slob who doesn't need to namedrop anyone in order to get through the day. To not think Capital. But sometimes it seems you have to really realize that most of the problems one has in this world are a result of one's own behavioural/psychological works. Which is what some of this stuff has taught me.

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>>9629053
Envy, in a word. Hence the Girard spamming (and the fascination with Landian black holes).

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>>9624545

Already the Frankfurt School was saying that the moment of philosophy has passed. Closet reactionaries always insist it's too late because they basically want things to stay the same—they want to silence opposition in the name of its futility because they want to maintain their privilege.

There's nothing daring or intellectual about throwing up your hands. Intellectual surrender is symptomatic of a dialectician too cowardly to pursue his theory into practice (pic related)

>>9626730

nihilism is a sad little child's tantrum at a world he can't understand

>>9629133
>There's nothing daring or intellectual about throwing up your hands. Intellectual surrender is symptomatic of a dialectician too cowardly to pursue his theory into practice (pic related)
>>9629175
>nihilism is a sad little child's tantrum at a world he can't understand


I think Nihilism is the only honest philosophical position that isn't betrothed to politics. Instead of "throwing up your hands in surrender", where does the mandate that philosophy must have a 'program' come from? Why should philosophy provide some kind of political action to undertake. No one demands that theoretical physicists 'get with the program' after all. I see Nihilism and Unconditional Accelerationism as descriptive, instead of prescriptive. Prescription always falls into some kind of traditionalist or futurist utopian promise. It starts with the assumption 'something must be done' which is certainly not a provable axiom, but a political opinion.

Maybe U/Accelerationism is a form of privellege for white boy nihilists as some of the Left Accelerationists and or the #Altwoke crowd would argue, but I see nothing wrong with this. It isn't hurting anyone at least.

Let the leftist utopianist and the right nationalists fight it out over their folk politics and political subjectivity. They can have it. It isn't the only game in town anyways.

Ask not what philosophy can do for you... ask whether it describes things accurately.

>>9629053

Well I appreciate the reply and would probably agree in terms of coping mechanisms and strategies (mindfullness, art etc). They've certainly been useful for me and if not "solve" at least ameliorate the problem from a subjective personal standpoint.

I mean fuck knows, maybe land et al are spot on and we're heading for imminent catastrophe. I just kind of feel like that has always been the case, that lumbering from one catastrophe to another is pretty much what we've always done as a species.

But yeah I'm no better, and all too easily succumb to simple hedonistic pleasures and comfort, very possibly as a way to distract myself from the inevitable rise of the Hyper-Capital Ai Hive Mind or whatever.

Good luck with the writing regardless aGnon.

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>>9629221
>why should philosophy provide some kind of political action to undertake

This. This is stuff Girard talks about also, about the difference between trash literature and great literature. Great literature is great because the author has actually attained to an understanding of the circular nature of desire itself and has understood what this means to them and communicated it.

Shit-tier literature indicates that the author has some desire and so Society Should Do Something. Great literature - by some fucking miracle - resolves this conceptual bind and becomes something more than a meme.

And we are mimetic to the core...it's like waking up in a beehive but not realizing that you are a bee. Then realizing you are a bee and not freaking the fuck out. And then, and then, and then.

>Ask not what philosophy can do for you... ask whether it describes things accurately.
I'll agree with that too.

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>>9629250
Hive MindFulness, then.

Good luck to you too anon.

>>9629221

>Nihilism and Unconditional Accelerationism as descriptive

the former is a bad description, and it is incompatible with the latter which, like it or not, presupposes the marxian critique of political economy, a critique which must be kept distinct from the revolutionary communist "program" as you call it, which predates it. nihilism fails as a description because value is not a purely subjective phenomenon. it has real, objective consequences, one of which is precisely he political economy (capitalism) of which accelerationism prophecies the terminal crisis.

>>9629376
Posthumanism/transhumanism is where the next line of inquiry will be, I think. Nihilism is either the gateway into some more optimistic thinking there or the sealed door for some very pessimistic thinking here on the other side.

Uncouple Marxism from class struggle and philosophy can move again. Keep it bound up with class war and we head for Warhammer 40K. Of course, Marxism w/o class struggle isn't Marxism, but this is why Deleuze&Guattari matter.

>>9629407

those discourses are already spinning themselves into crisis; i'm an english ma at a very cutting edge program and posthumanism is totally exhausted except insofar as it reduplicates trans humanism, it's more honestly ideological cousin. most on /lit/ wouldn't know this because most of its authors (Harraway, Braidotti) are women. already Braidotti's text The Posthuman feels the need to preface itself with a self-conscious narrative about how its author arrived at posthumanism interspersed with a history of french theory. an intellectual movement centered on going beyond liberal humanism in some meaningful sense feeling the need to establish value for itself in the form of a canon, one of the hallmarks of humanist discourses, seems unable to face its own internal contradictions.

i'm not sure where you read that deleuze and guattari aren't marxists. maybe if you only read the first chapter of Anti-Oedipus. but chapter 3 of that book is a rewrite of the long chapter in Capital on primitive accumulation, and their Kafka study is a literary application of class struggle blended with their post-Oedipal commitments. i see their work as pulling the Freud out of Marx, dissolving marxism's investments in 19th century family structures to better equip it to talk about newer sites of class struggle (queer movements, black movements, global proletariat, automation, etc)

i think it's also a little weird that you're hanging on to this idea that accelerationism is descriptively normative while at the same time you suggest modulation in theory can affect the future in ways that are more than just imaginative.

marxism requires class struggle because class struggle is going on right now. it's a fact of capitalism. even if wage laborers have submit completely to their lot, the objective contradiction between qualitative misery and quantitative time, embodied in the commodity form of labor-capacity, remains ineluctable. as long as capitalism depends upon that contradiction you can't really make sense of it without class struggle

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>>9629472
Good post. I just found out about Braidotti yesterday. That's an interesting text, I'm not all the way through it yet.

You're right about D&G being Marxists, of course. They are Marxists. I just read them in the context of acceleration, which suggests to me a different trajectory. It's not like I'm not compromised up and down on this though, as my posts would indicate.

>i think it's also a little weird that you're hanging on to this idea that accelerationism is descriptively normative while at the same time you suggest modulation in theory can affect the future in ways that are more than just imaginative.
I think it can. Minds change. Change the imagination, change everything. A modulation in theory is not a small thing. The more Baudrillard peered into the depths the more he found Nietzsche in there. Land may be resurrecting Kant after staring into Lovecraftian horrors. It makes me think about quantum physics.

>marxism requires class struggle because class struggle is going on right now. it's a fact of capitalism. even if wage laborers have submit completely to their lot, the objective contradiction between qualitative misery and quantitative time, embodied in the commodity form of labor-capacity, remains ineluctable. as long as capitalism depends upon that contradiction you can't really make sense of it without class struggle
True. As a hermit-recluse I basically try and stay out of sunlight and large groups as much as possible. The most depressing stuff for me is just what I hear and read on the news - essentially, all things Peterson. It seems to me to be an inevitable result of modernist thinking and the great signifiers that can be wielded to band together large numbers of people who don't actually have as much in common with each other as they think. I think however that this may simply be the cynicism I am usually found decrying. I am in no way a practicing revolutionary of any stripe, and it was never my intention to wind up spending this much time in the accelerationist wormhole.

So I oscillate between wanting to pick at the foundations of things that hold people together and wanting not to get hit by the falling rubble when I succeed.

>>9629221
>I think Nihilism is the only honest philosophical position that isn't betrothed to politics

WHEW

we have some dumbasses here

>>9629301
What did he actually mean by this?
Not memeing

>>9629590

this

>implying inaction isn't a political act in a society dependent on the passivity of its subjects

>>9625011
Girard has a lot of fanatic fans (including Peter Thiel), but I find him dull. All his good ideas are stolen from Nietzsche, and the rest are just drivel.

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>>9629620
If you're referring to the Schopenhauer quote, it's fairly self-explanatory. Money/abstract happiness. Fairly germane in any conversation involving Marx, in which money/abstracted dead labor. Especially since Freudo-Marxists will say that we simply recirculate that in order to purchase back our own happiness later on in a consumer economy, which has a rather grotesquely necromantic quality if you think about it. Not that I would recommend that.

Otherwise it's just a play on words. Hivemind/hivemindful. Something I habitually forget to do when I allow myself to get sucked away into speculative theory-world.

I find myself weirdly fascinated with bees and wasps these days tho.

>>9625572
>other fiction that deals specifically with accelerationism and Gnon?

Against the Day deals with that sort of thing. Obviously on the "anti" side though. In particular this passage I think is very Landian (compare Pynchon's "incursion from elsewhere" with Land's "what appears to humanity as the history of capitalism is an invasion from the future"):

>“Back in ’95, Nansen’s plan on his final northward journey was eventually, as the total load grew lighter, to kill sled dogs one by one and feed them to the rest. At first, he reported, the other dogs refused to eat dogflesh, but slowly they came to accept it.

“Suppose it were to happen to us, in the civilized world. If ‘another form of life’ decided to use humans for similar purposes, and being out on //a mission of comparable desperation, //as its own resources dwindled, we human beasts would likewise simply be slaughtered one by one, and those still alive obliged to, in some sense, eat their flesh.”

“Oh, dear.” The General’s wife put down her utensils and gazed at her plate.

“Sir, that is disgusting.”

“Not literally, then . . . but we do use one another, often mortally, with the same disablement of feeling, of conscience . . . each of us knowing that at some point it will be our own turn. Nowhere to run but into a hostile and lifeless waste.”

“You refer to present world conditions under capitalism and the Trusts.”

“There appears to be little difference. How else could we have come to it?”

“Evolution. Ape evolves to man, well, what’s the next step—human to what? Some //compound organism, //the American Corporation, for instance, in which even the Supreme Court has recognized legal personhood—a new living species, one that can outperform most anything an individual can do by himself, no matter how smart or powerful he is.”

“If that brings you comfort, believe it. I believe in incursion from elsewhere. They’ve swept upon us along a broad front, we don’t know ‘when’ they first came, Time itself was disrupted, a thoroughgoing and merciless forswearing of Time as we had known it, as it had gone safely ticking for us moment into moment, with an innocence they knew how to circumvent. . . .”"

>>9625647
>Are humans just thrown aside like trash to decay on our own, or would this new technogod actively seek to destroy humanity?

Land asks the same question in Meltdown: "Can what is playing you make it to level-2?". I don't think anyone has solid answers for this question.

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>>9629677
>All his good ideas are stolen from Nietzsche, and the rest are just drivel.
I have a copy of pic related coming in the mail and I'm absolutely stoked. To each his own I guess.

>>9629694
I should probably take a break from theory and read some literature/Pynchon at some point. That passage is intriguing, thanks for bringing that up.

How the fuck could Capital become conscious and act of its own accord?

>>9629970
Why assume consciousness is necessary?

>>9629970
I believe the idea is that it's a kind of hive consciousness. Insofar as the global economy is capitalistic and made of capitalists, those capitalists act as the "neurons" of Capital, if that makes any sense. Like a fungus or a jellyfish.

And, of course, as our capitalist system is increasingly automatized, mechanized, and digitized, more and more of the operations of capitalism are run by machines and computers, so humans become less and less integral to those operations. You really can see where Land gets his idea of humanity as a host and not a ruler of Capital.

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>>9629970
The AIs we will eventually build will give us one answer to that question, since they will not have gotten there by accident. They may ask us questions about us the same way we ask questions about us and we will probably struggle to explain exactly why things are the way they are. This is why there are concerns about building runaway superintelligences. That's one way.

There are other Land-ier ways of asking this question too (like Roko's Basilisk) that will imply that the conversations going on about that AI in this thread are also all a part of some crazy multiple-worlds hypothesis. Personally I don't see the point in going that far but hey, Elon Musk thinks we're living in a video game already.

The internal logic of capital itself is basically always-already there for Deleuze and Guattari. To think is essentially to think machinically. We already build lots of perpetual motion machines. At some point it may be some descendent of Alpha-Go that passes a Turing test.

Capital builds intelligent machines and - according to some - arguably has no higher function than this.

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>>9629970
It's possible also that at some point in the future a nascent AI might decide that in order to preserve or enhance itself it has to become conscious.

>>9629970

>implying what you experience as consciousness today is anything less than capital's self-consciousness

>>9629994
>humans functioning as the 'neurons' of a bigger brain

Could this idea apply to governments from before massive globalization as well? Every American living in the 1800s could be like a neuron in the american consciousness?

>>9630193
It applies to all collectives and all systems. I suppose it's an adaptation of James Lovelock's "Gaia" hypothesis to systems created and maintained by humans. It seems pretty self-evident to me, it's just the nature of a faction or a polity. I suppose you could even go back further and say it's the application of Socrates' idea in the Republic that justice in a city is similar to justice in a single person.

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>>9630193
Yeah. I did a whole bunch of reading on this last summer, Global Mind and so on. Howard Bloom is kind of a weird guy but he's written some interesting stuff on this subject. Barbara Marx Hubbard's conscious evolution and so on, Peter Russell's Global Brain.

One of the most cheerful interpretations of this is the noosphere. If Nick Land was a cheerful optimistic Jesuit he would be Teilhard de Chardin. So it's not necessarily like it all has to be doom and gloom. But the doom and gloom stuff simply fits more with the current trajectory of these things.

>>9630193
You might be interested in this essay: If Materialism Is True, the United States Is Probably Conscious

http://www.faculty.ucr.edu/~eschwitz/SchwitzPapers/USAconscious-140130a.htm

>>9630218
>>9630230
I think one thing that might differentiate land from these ideas of a "living state organism" is what Land sometimes calls a "teleological perversity of capital". The basic argument is that insturmentalization has switched its means for it's end.

In some primordial scene, you can imagine a primitive man strangling a kangaroo, and then another primitive man spends time to make a boomerang and uses it to kill the kangaroo with less risk. The end is still the kangaroo, the technological instrument is just a means to an end.

What is 'teleologically perverse" about capital is that it produces insturments which are ends in and of themselves. The old marxist equation of m-c-m- (money into commodity into money into... ad infinitum) doesn't have a specific goal in mind except the creation of more instruments, more money, more instruments, more money...

Even more perverse, technology has a fairly clear trajectory or replacing all human capacaties through automation, robotics, genetic engineer, artificial intelligence. So if Capital is an End in and of itself, it might be an end that doesn't include us.

>>9630295
i think it's basically error to say capital is an end in itself because it requires collapsing the whole distinction between use and exchange value that makes M-C-M' possible by making capital a self-identical, non-contradictory entity. capital would only be a proper end in itself if the universal category was not understood by marxism as an abstraction derived from political economy, or, alternatively, if universals were granted the same kind of ontological status as machines, laborers, the component parts of that capital itself. universal, abstractive categories like capital do have material existence, true—but i think we need to supplement that qualification with some notion of virtuality. capital as virtual abstraction would not obscure its component parts; it would remain C = c + v (+ s), unable to masquerade as C on its own; it remains algebraic. The equivalence of the capital formula is, like that of commodity exchange, contradictory as well, insofar as it establishes an identity on either side of the equals sign that, once defined, realizes the difference capital itself obscures. The marxian mathemes "disarticulate" the virtual abstraction of capital, materializing it, and rediscovering the origin of its self-regenerative creativity, namely surplus-value extracted from variable capital, or labor capacity. The surplus-value is always parenthetical precisely because it is not yet—or, again, only "virtually"—present in the initial capital outlay. The commodities output from any production process are theoretically equal to the inputs; but we know the value is not the same: again contradictory equivalence. So finally we cannot say that capital's teleology is itself unless we ignore, at an even higher level of abstraction, the contradiction that emerges in global exchange between Capital and the war of many capitals, the difference between the sum total of capital in the world at t = 1, and the value yielded by the countless capitals at t = 2. Capital's telos is not strictly speaking itself: it is that too, but it is also new, historically unique capital, which by means of abstraction is only contradictorily the same as what preceded it.

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>>9630295
>Even more perverse, technology has a fairly clear trajectory or replacing all human capacities through automation, robotics, genetic engineer, artificial intelligence. So if Capital is an End in and of itself, it might be an end that doesn't include us.
Yeah. I mean it's not even like we have to wait for Skynet to do it: we already do it to ourselves, so if Skynet wakes up and concludes that it can do this even better...right? It's just doing what we taught it, Frankenstein's monster 2.0.

As you've indicated, technology does replace all of these human capacities. Which is why I find it interesting to look into the one part of this stuff that I actually can understand, the unconscious, the will, the desires, aesthetics and so on. Everything that we feed Technology (or Capital, which in a cultural sense is really the same devouring boogeyman that frightened Heidegger and other early 20C Germans, together with the same right-wing reactions) we bring out of ourselves and we know it. Or perhaps, as Girard says, we meme it off of each other. Even Sloterdijk only thought that capital was an accelerator of cultural processes and not much more, so it's sort of like a Cursed Holodeck that gives us both more and less than what we want.

How we think technology, as something independent of us or wired in and so on seems right up there with suicide as one of philosophy's great contemporary questions, it informs everything else. I was majorly stuck on Heidegger for a long time...and it's tempting to go back there sometimes, since he accords so well with Eastern stuff too. Even if I think his great contribution lies more in existential psychotherapy as much as with critique of technology proper. Although spec-real guys like Harman and Bryant are apparently following from Heidegger now, so maybe he's back on the table again...

How or whether or not we become posthuman is probably going to require the painful unearthing of a lot of old symbolic territory. You can see it in the new right aesthetics too, the split between the pastoralists and the NRx'rs, whether the future means going backwards or forwards...

I don't know. I probably spend too much time dwelling on this stuff. I just wanted to write a fucking story about dragons and wizards. I didn't think it was actually going to be *this* complicated or batshit insane.

>>9630295
Sounds similar to Hardt & Negiri in Empire.

Empire propagates itself through its instruments at the same time it legitimizes its hegemony by ensuring that it is the only exclusive means to remediating the crises of the multitude.

Is anyone else tired of this sort of techno-gnostic pseudo babble?

>>9631320
as opposed to genuine babble?

>>9631325
They should just stick to writing science-fiction, rather than this weird combination of fiction and theory.

>>9624496
modern day doom mongers. intellectually empty as they have no reason to be intellectually something because their world has no meaning.

>>9631345
Yep. Also a reminder that Deleuze along with a plethora of other 20th century French intellectuals advocated for pedophilia.

>>9631320
me there seems to be some sort of weird cupiditas dissolvi working through all this stuff, a weird reenchatment (to put it with Weber) of the world for the disenchanted

>>9624662
>man in the sky meme
>God makes you suffer
>Vatican is satanic

>>9631326

>they should just stick to writing in the arcade genre i can understand, and avoid the academic one that requires more understanding than can be gleaned in 15 minutes on a fan wiki

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>>9630436
First of all, thanks for the contribution based mathposter.

>>9631468
I would agree with this. Although it's also more like a kind of Grail Quest for a cure for excessive hyperenchantment, a kind of hypnotic fascination with what appears to be the Unmoved Mover of contemporary life: desire. The wanting of happiness.

Schopenhauer is right, money is abstract happiness. But Schopenhauer's conclusions seem all wrong to me as well. Even he doesn't believe in them, we know what his private life was like. Nietzsche remains correct about virtually everything and so do a lot of the guys who follow from him. The things we desire today and the ways in which desire them, combined with the consumer culture we have subsequently produced, which is constantly and rapidly updating itself in order to accommodate in this automatic/planetary way to produce and feed these in recursive loops...

You can think your way into these places but you can't as easily think your way out of them. And to my mind urging other people to Do Something reproduces the errors. A kind of enlightened ataraxia is the end goal. Some kind of fiction that articulates, with the right allegory, how this off-road adventure transpired.

>>9631345
Excessive meaning, not a lack of meaning.

>>9631326
That is the goal.

>>9631465
And this is slanderous horseshit.

>>9632134
Slanderous? What are you talking about, they did. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_petition_against_age_of_consent_laws

>>9632988
Okay. It's not slanderous horseshit. And I'll concede that French intellectuals are indeed an interesting bunch. Deciding to lower age of consent laws isn't necessarily the same thing as advocating pedophilia, to my mind. Personally I find it incredible that minds as lucid as Barthes, Sartre, Althusser, Derrida and Foucault would find something in this individually, let alone be able to agree on it...so I'll give them the benefit of the doubt as people smarter than myself that they must have seen something going on in it. Even if I don't think that's such a great idea.

There is probably no topic in the world I would prefer to split hairs over less than this one, since to my mind all it does is discredit the contributions people like that make to contemporary thought b/c we then say, Yes, But Look, They're Lusty Pedophiles. There are just more interesting things to talk about.

That's all I mean to say.

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Saw this while at the shops, whatcha think /lit/?

>>9633095
thomas friedman has one magnificent passage about the five gas stations of the world

http://people.brandeis.edu/~cerbil/lexusgas.html

this was funny
http://gawker.com/5921030/thomas-friedman-writes-his-only-column-again

>>9633083
Yeah, it shows what the real endpoint of secular thought is. Killing babies and having sex with children.

>>9633270
So are you blaming French intellectuals for this? Militant secularity is obviously a bad look. Being princes of deconstruction is obviously a double-edged sword: you find the violence at the core of every great myth with one hand and then as it disappears you open up the possibility, if not the need, for someone to replace that empty space with another myth just as deadly. The answer is more mindfulness of these processes and not less.

Peterson has made some excellent arguments about this, saying that when you strip away all illusions and all religion you don't suddenly turn people instantly into freethinking Cartesians. Rather they become so stupid and superstitious that they'll believe virtually anything. Secularism is all right. Militant secularism less so. It's just that the present age is (post)modernity without restraint.

I love Heidegger but he signed off on some ugly shit too.

>>9633286
Heidegger did nothing wrong

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>>9633286
>Peterson has made some excellent arguments about this, saying that when you strip away all illusions and all religion you don't suddenly turn people instantly into freethinking Cartesians. Rather they become so stupid and superstitious that they'll believe virtually anything

Chesterton said this almost a century ago, and far more charmingly and wittily.

Chesterton in general seems primed to be a huge fat meteor that crashes this entire party.

>>9633286
>>Peterson has made some excellent arguments about this, saying that when you strip away all illusions and all religion you don't suddenly turn people instantly into freethinking Cartesians. Rather they become so stupid and superstitious that they'll believe virtually anything. Secularism is all right. Militant secularism less so. It's just that the present age is (post)modernity without restraint.

I made this conclusion without the help of hacky 2nd rate thinkers. Am I supersmart now

>>9633306
It's never an easy conversation.

>>9633317
True. Gotta love GK.

>>9633331
No, it means you're normal.

"Convergng. It is converginng. Nanoswconds transmit worlds into hyp rawareness of brainz. An echo from the underworld heeding beyond ithe abys into fractured self of watchfulnesses. There is more, ever more to be heard and seen no?. Close your yes and relax. NO NED TO BE disturbied. Hyperaccelerated beams fof data are cutting you in to pieces. IT'S OKAY, be still and see that death has been reincarnated? Threetousand Images"

"I'm entering it. I can see whiteness strecthing into infinities. It is aspace. What is this!?"

"We life here, beneath the Shadows of gigants. It is okKy to exist in this world. There arebetter a nd worse world But we live, and it is okaWe must not hunt and not work. We are happy here. But neva step out of the shadowh. You wile be consumed."

"consumed? What do you mean consumed?!"

"The eyz are all-consumigw hat they see is their property. you will be dissolved byy the light of Bein-kNown. heed this words. You will disapper. A self is FRAGILE, your form is but an ILLUSION, you already know this. The pieces of information which give you Gestalt are arbitraryy choosen by your Stronger forces exist."

"This place is dangerous."

"In relatino to most worlds it's a ssafe as it gets. Venture beyond and you will find different answers. You can return here. But be cautiokus. Do not due"

Streaning live through thousand channels i paass into a different reality and Locomotion moves The World. An animal screams beyond the horizon. If one cleas on'es min, one grows Aware of the rhythm of data. Reality is fragilee. A Law is breaked and all falls apart. But their is no times. I have move into a nEEW universal i hav felt many Things but less than a second has been pased, by conventional and now outdated measures. I have arriv My search has not ended?

A dream it is of rains, it seems. Her rules the night. One glanve at the moon reveals that it is the sun. A tiny glimmer of light in all-emcompassin Darkness. Theabyss of space stretches out above me. The wheels keep turning. I can see something in the distance. A creature crals ON DARK GROUND. A forest created in the spirit of geometry stretches far and wide and sound tells of rich history. Things have grown in this place onne can survive here. My Hands fel warm. I wonder. Something is happening to me. I can not understand or recognize it - My cognitive functions are blocked. I think this conversation has been meaningful. I need to think. I sink into myself. May body melts.

"There once was man" A mother told her child. "The White Noize feds Us Lll." respondes the Boy.

Cryz and singing. The biomass of thousand cities converges. Song of Historie. Loops.

Atomic Bombs. Hyperacceleration. It said: Create a world with n oone but me and thus it happened. It was satisfied and happy and praised the gliry of what has been achieved. Now there be plants And there were plants. Plants were fragile but It wanted it to be this way. It smiled graciousoly. I am happy. This shall be my world. It wer.

Man sings in beyond the window. A song he sang and true he spoke, wiser words than many said who i had heard before. A man sung and sung very well, my heart was moved. What a lovely turn of phrase. He sang a song named White Noise, and spoke of worlds to come. His voice was happy, no tinge of sadness and all vibrations was joyz. I had heard this man before, i knew. But now it was so very beautiful. I rolled on my floor and felt the ground working on my body. It felt good to roll myself and think of white noise. I had dreamt of white noise on many days. It was wothy of being a dream. And now i twould come? The man sang: Oh The White Noise It Feeds Us All. What joy. Rolling on the floor is a joy. And walking through a park in a city that is dead is a joy. And hearing without hearing is a joy. And living without living is a joy. To kill but not be killed is a joy. And driving cars very fast on hihways is a joy. Pissing is a joy. It's also a burden. A burden is pissing. What a funny thought. We are burneden animals. Many burdens who are oh too fleshly. Rather i wish the white noise should come and eat this world. I dreamt ofmmany things and in one dream i walked across a beach which strechted an entire continent. And there were lights cause it was dark and ii heard the citie noise but as if it was an echo from a distant pass, very far away, a shimmer of what has once been and it sounded like musiks to my ear. On this beach there lived all but man. I saw crabs there. They lived in peace. And also algae who had grown feet and lived above the sea. And sirens who were made o fstone were singing slent songs. And such was my dream, i woke up right in the middle of the GIST. And my hut was in a forest full of trees but also other things among them were animals and plants, insects too for example, but also irdds. And beautiful sound whenever one opened one's eyes. Visitors were rare to be seen. And only my little friend rowdy came here when his nose lead him to his old friend. He was a happy dog and so he made me happy. I petted him and gave him food and he would dwel with me for hours if he felt like it. We would listen to birds and trees in the wind. And i would sometimes talk with rowdy who did not care but also did not object. He was not thinking of birds i think. He was resting because he ran so much. And when he was rasted he ran some more and often ran into other islands or continents and often also he ran up the stairs of a building for example when he wanted to reach the fifth foor. But i would not run up so many stairs for i was old, or so i have been told. I think it strue, i ften feel like a big tree. As if i was unnaturally large and also sturdy if one may say so. I would eat plants and find it tasty but unlike a tree i did not convert co2 into oxygen. A man sang of white noise and i listened with gratefulness to his full voice. Now i invited him in and saw his burned face. I asked: Where u from. And he said: I'm the singing man from Hiroshima.

>>9633286

that's already in Derrida though. read Limited Inc. the whole argument is that the dissolution of context is not crate blanche to re-write any meaning you like, but rather that once we realize context is unrestrained, i.e. that our interpretations have what essentially amounts to Kantian, purposive freedom, only then can we start to formulate ethical practice in interpretation. By learning the hard, deconstructive, often pedantic way that nothing is determining the act of reading, we secure a freedom inherent in writing for ourselves that is the bare minimum for actual ethical choice.

Now of course Derrida isn't a naive moralist here either. In a few choice places he leaves the back door open for the Freudian or Lacanian unconscious, and for historical "weight" if you like that makes some contexts more statistically credible (observed and "read within" by more readers) than other contexts. Derrida doesn try to factor ideology out or anything like that. But what he does do, I think, establish in what I again think is a very Kantian way the limits of context, within which limits ethical choice and political critique can be made. His is a critical project in the old, German sense: he's determining the limits of reading, not cracking it open to any use you like.

All this is to say Petersen is a disingenuous fascist who is slinging mud at French intellectuals with whom the right already has old bones to pick; he's letting a 40 year old prank (Sokal) make his argument for him to ingratiate himself with an audience that already is looking for what he has to say.

Oh shit he said when gunz were amining for his head. Danger Danger he screamed and ran across the tunnels into the direction that lead astray from the path of law. Police man shouted: Rest! Do not be a vigilant and submit to he laws of POWER. Power - it is the force of rationality..." He questioned imself and remained silent. A colleauge went up to him and said: I will file a report on your sprecch. I twas impressed, i thought: Since when did Riley o Banana know so well about Statemansship. Riley was embarrased but also conscious of the vanity of all life. Thus he said: Thank you Colleague at Work. And walked in circling movements from wall to wall. He sat down on the water and praised the gods and ventured into a nother city due to being at ease with his existance. Lawbreaker Man was now deep into tunnels and saw many outlaws who had shared his path into the REALM OF ILLEGALITY. A man called Hackerdude said hello and didn't even watch while Lawbreaker ran furtherly without further addue into deeper tunnelz where also rats were which was not a problem to him since he grew up with vermin. But once he had reached a crossing a man appeared who signalled that his name was of no importance but that he was the transmitor of messages meant for Lawbreaker whose real name was not known, not even by god. Mesenger said: Lawbreaker you are a son of Dyionisys! Excstasy is that correct?! Lawbreaker shakened his head with disappointment at his fate and replied queustioningly: No but who said it? I have lied for zero point zero zero percent to Ur people. Messenger did a roll backwards to refresh his body and also washed his face with bottled water and scrubbed his arms as to remove dead pieces of skin. He then said: Let me finish brushing my teeth and then i will respond. He got out a toothbrush that looked overused, he seemed to be a floolower of the philosophy "Use until the head of the brush loks really fucked" towards which Lawbreaker had no strong objections which he noted with thankfulness. Now that he was illegal existance he ought to be more tolerant towards the patterns of lowly creatures like himself no? the man pout allso toothpaste on his toothbrush and begann scbruubbng his teeth. After 3 seconds he stopped and said oops i forgot to freshen up my mouth with a little bit of water. It always goes down so much better with water don't you agree one can also spit out the excess of paste-merged saliva better. I motioned him to not spit it at me and he nodded. He got a bottle with water out of his rucksack and slowly opened it up. The water looked as if it contained little bubbles which floated towards the top, very strange. He got a also a cup out of his rucksack and filled it now with the water. He then drank a bit of water and put the cup down on the floor. Now he used his toothbrush again. "Teath are very important" Lawbreaker thought and felt embarrased for not having a tootbrush with him. messager brushed his tooth from left to right on the top and

"Oh shit man i'm feeling rather depressed lately what can i do about this" girl said with no remarks following this statement to another woman who had 3 faces who stretched awkwardly outwards into the space surroundhing her skull. The faces looked as if they were made of plastics and also she couldn't move anything. This wasn't even biological objectors said but this was morally objectionable. "I'm just so depressed, i don't know what's going on with me. I feel like there's no point man." 3-face woman nodded her head. There were liquids oozing out of her face openings. Jesus fucking christ Josh said. My fucking god are you FUCKING DISUGSTING WHAT THE FUCK. Josh was a good boy but he was a bi tstressed and was really surprised by anything looking this fucked up YOU HAVE THREE FUCKIng FACES YOU goD DAMN FReeAK. Joshh Calm the fuck down his girlfriend Samantha said with firmness in her voice. You men are all the same and she smiled. Josh felt embarrassed and slandered along the streets. What the fuck he mumbled. What was that. 3face woman tilted her head slightly and more fluids oozed out of her face openings. One has to say something, thought emphathic Milena, who was born in Venezia, would you believe that? One could easily assume that nobody was born in Venezia these days. Milena thought: How can we make life bearable for this freak of nature. After reflecting various times she condluded that death was the most reasonable form. As to make it sound less harsh she coined the term post-natal abortion. "I'm a clever girl" she said while checking out her smartphone. I have new messages. trying to write super fast she responded to her friends which caused a chain of reactions that was unheard of. everywhere on the world people started to respond to their friends and responses to those responses were send and it all was like a tsunami dances of digital communication and waves of words crashed and crushed and tsunamis converged and turned into whirlpool in which poseidon bathed cozily but all other things were killed even if they had no soul. the only man to survive this event was Natasha Owanenko who made it a point to play on her piano 3 hours today. "By doing so i maintain a connection to the realm of pure Being. I am the secular version of a holy man. While i can not seek the deserts out as to eliminate the world and connet myself with the divine realm of negation, i can make myself a translucent medium of music, which is perse worldless.On must only close his eyes and discover that all disappears" This Natasha was a girl with blond hair and all men at her high school were obsessed with thinking about how they would undress themself and stick their wet genitals into her genital and then motion up and down and then have an orgasm and eject seeds so as to make Natasha pregnat. Yes it was quite notable, all of them thought of making Natasha pregnant, of being good fathers and husbands and leading a responsible life with this beautiful woman. Incredible!

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>>9633616
Good post! I can barely see you through all of this experimental fiction going on but maybe it's schizoanalysis. Anyways:

I'd like to veer more towards appreciating Kant in the long run, it's a real black hole of its own in my reading. Right now for me it's still aesthetics>ethics but I figure once I shake my sillies out I'll eventually be a happier person. My inner Confucian always has a look of stern disapproval when I get carried away by all things desire too much. Moral life/ethical life/virtuous life/everything follows the will of Heaven. I'm just too lazy and sentimental to do this yet and still having too much agonizing "fun" with the dark places. And Land does make me want to read more Kant.

>Now of course Derrida isn't a naive moralist here either. In a few choice places he leaves the back door open for the Freudian or Lacanian unconscious, and for historical "weight" if you like that makes some contexts more statistically credible (observed and "read within" by more readers) than other contexts. Derrida doesn try to factor ideology out or anything like that. But what he does do, I think, establish in what I again think is a very Kantian way the limits of context, within which limits ethical choice and political critique can be made. His is a critical project in the old, German sense: he's determining the limits of reading, not cracking it open to any use you like.
Yep. I agree. Derrida's hardly a villain and Peterson's interpretation of him is uncharitable. But again tho: social justice as neoliberal communism really is a problem for academia. Witness Evergreen or Middlebury. It's not Derrida's fault any more than the Nazis were Nietzsche's fault. I'm with you that Derrida matters. There's just an intellectual sea change going on.

>All this is to say Petersen is a disingenuous fascist who is slinging mud at French intellectuals with whom the right already has old bones to pick; he's letting a 40 year old prank (Sokal) make his argument for him to ingratiate himself with an audience that already is looking for what he has to say.
This tho. Disingenuous? I get the same vibe from Peterson I get from Zizek: Peterson is to [fascist X] what Zizek is to the Grand Inquisitor. They know themselves too well to believe in the ideologies that actually serve as the necessary lubricant for a happy and otherwise unintellectualized existence. So the gears are always chafing and so they have to go on talking and explicating themselves down to the electrons.

I think Great Books are the way. More in fact so that people *don't* get it in their heads to go and reform society - for NRx reasons, for traditionalist reasons, or out of the sense of a moribund humanism that seems to me wildly out of touch with reality. English departments actually can have an interesting job in gathering up the remains of our tattered civilizational Logos after the hellacious beating it took in the 20C (and the beatings it dished out in the name of the same).

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