what is your favorite character archetype in literature? personally

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>>9602013
Would-be uber mensch who can't handle the ramifications of their actions like Macbeth or Raskolnikov.

>>9602044
I like the way you phrased this.

>>9602013
paladins or picaros.

white knight

>>9602013
Charismatic villains. It's always fun reading eloquent bad guys.

>>9602131
I used to enjoy this too in my early reading endeavours, but I feel like this archetype has been ruined. I love characters like the Judge and - the most important and obvious - Mephistopheles, even the sometimes literal comic-like adaptions like Watchmen's Ozymandias. But ever since the Tears in the Rain monologue, which I admit was great for movie standards, the archetype has been gaining too much traction. It's so many badly done villains with so many flaws in the way they were written. 9/10 times it feels like a parody.

>>9602013
The confused outsider who pokes around in forbidden nooks and crannies- think Tom Cruise in Eyes Wide Shut

The curious but aloof intelectual. Think William of Baskerville in Eco's Name of the Rose.

>>9602013
The Picaresque Hero. Cugel the Clever is the GOAT pulp-protagonist.

>>9602850
this.

>>9602013
Unironically the avenger.

Young people who you know are going to get into an adventure because they ooze curiosity whilst being optimistic about anything.

>>9602712
Hannibal Lecter as played by Anthony Hopkins was utterly brilliant.

Psychopaths tend to make great eloquent bad-guys

The ubermensch misanthrope. Maldoror is by far my favorite example, although this archetype is almost always done piss poorly.

Over-confident and arrogant youths that are not only aware of their attitude but also realize that they rely on it to function, and gradually turn from a hollow narcissist into my diary desu

The God-King questing for immortality. Think Gilgamesh.

The tsundere; think Asuka from Neon Genesis Evangelion.

>>9603336
Is there a way to write this as a believable character, though? Anime -dere archetypes always feel very parallel-world in social dynamics. Very few people are like this unless they're in a position of power or have some sort of mental issues. Granted, Asuka has them, but in a more plausible scenario more people would have told her to fuck off right away.

>>9603360
It isn't really trying to be realistic, though, is it? I think if you could separate yourself from how it's normally portrayed in anime and just try to write a character that is mean to a person that they like (due to insecurity, etc.) and gradually warms up to them and becomes affectionate, it might be possible. If you break the archetype down it doesn't seem unreasonable.

The fundamentally evil person, not out of spitefulness for being mistreated, but because they were simply born without the same feelings of sympathy that others have, and this realization is troubling for them.

Best example is Cathy in East of Eden

I don't care about characters desu

>>9602013
Morally ambiguous characters that'll do brutal things for the people they love. They don't give a shit about killing a person, if they're trying to kill them or their friends. They're not evil, or cruel, just remorseless. All the excitement without all that snivelling guilt that authors like to force in to add drama. FUCK OFF! That's my absolute favorite, but I have a hard time finding books...

>>9603989
Stirner's Diary desu.

The genius hustler who appears to be a timid, crippled fool.

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The misplaced anachronism in a world where he doesn't belong for political reasons.

Think anything from John the Savage in Brave New World to Logan in the new capeshit movie Logan.

Whatever Slothrop was

I like innocent incompetent characters who end up becoming jaded, but talented by the end of the story.

>>9605053
There is a Flannery O'Connor story where a very tedious philosophy PhD gets 100% hustled by one of this type and it's fucking hilarious.

>>9602013
Confused, unreliable, and unimportant narrators: Nick Carraway in The Great Gatsby

>>9606519
Shittiest character archetype ITT.

líshniy chelovék

Youre all wrong
Best is the capable and arrogant jerk who get humbled into compassion

>>9602013

Whatever archetype includes dears Quixote, Myshkin, Alyosha, and Mario

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Doomed but capable loners on a one-way ticket to the end.

>>9606841
They're referred to as Quixotic actually.

Hamlet, but he was one of a kind.

To be honest, I like "blanks"

>>9602013
Charismatic mystery men with a past. Gatsby if he wasn't so much of a white knight.

>>9602044

I share your fondness for these characters but on that score, C&P is almost a (pardon my use of this word, so overused on these boards) deconstruction of the übermensch meme.

The would-be übermensch of the novel, Svidrigailov, is looked upon with disgust by Raskolnikov. He tries to 'step over' Rodya's sister with zero consideration for the ramifications and it's one of the primary causes of Rodya's frenzied mental state. Indeed, the whole great man theory, the übermensch idea, (or as it appears in C&P) Raskolnikov's theory, ends up being either a sterile intellectual toy to play with (like any one of Lebezyatnikov's ideas) or a veritable mental illness. Yes, Svidrigailov does things like throw cash around town to cover up and justify his sins (just like how Raskolnikov plans to do) but Raskolnikov can't help but hate him. This and the person Svidrigailov has become barrs him from any chance of fulfillment (Dunya hates him). So even an """übermensch""" becomes a would-be übermensch; he has a Macbeth conscience crisis.

It would be neat if novels were real things and Napoleon could walk into Rodya's apartment after he's had a nightmare. Raskolnikov would probably be like "haha look at this angry little manlet who thinks he's so great! Get out".

I'd like to reread Nietzsche soon and see what unique nuances his theory has and if it's fundementally different from what's in C&P.

>>9607255
I knew C&P was a übermensch satire, but I never realized Svidrigailov was one. Thanks anon, I should probably reread it now.

>>9606497

I was actually envisioning Kevin Spacey from The Usual Suspects for what this anon said

>>9602013
I am not passionate, but I like the "heroic wise", the one who knows everything and uses his wisdom with greatness, as the villain of The Scarlet Letter, the man without qualities or Judge Holden.

>>9606447
A toon.

The most real ones like Leopold Bloom or Dona Malu of Self-portrait of Family with Dog.

>>9606841
Who Mario?

WHAT THE FUCK HAPPENED TO THIS BOARD?
GO TO REDDIT

>>9602850
Oedipa (most Pynchon characters??)

>>9607874

Incandenza. Alyosha maps onto him (as Hal : Ivan and Orin : Dmitri)

>>9607894
That's it. I was trying to remember where else I've encountered it. Are there any other non-Pynchon books that use this archetype?

>>9602850
The Last Feast Of Harlequin has a good one like that.

>>9603209
>>9607255
What are some good short books with the ubermensch archetype as a main character? misanthrope or not.

>>9608010

Notes from Above Ground

>>9608010
Les Chants De Maldoror, obviously. Although the book is more proto-surrealist and proto-existentialist than Nietzschian.

Atlas Shrugged, but it's complete trash and essentially Rand's power fantasy.

Like mentioned above, there C&P's Raskolnikov, where he wonders if he actually is a ubermensch or not. It's worth noting that the novel was published before Also sprach Zarathustra and that Raskolnikov considers Napoleon to be the archetypical Ubermensch, showing that the idea at the very least predates Nietzsche.

Arguably Sherlock Holmes.

Thomas Ligotti plays around with the concept in a lot of his short stories, like The Shadow The Darkness. Although like C&P, it's a deconstruction of the concept and unlike Dosto, Ligotti is very unpleasantly pessimistic.

>>9608010
The Demons. Stavrogin is the most übermensch of the characters of Dostoyevsky.

>>9608010
Blood Meridian. The Judge.

>>9608095
Not short.

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>>9603989
Video games are trash, and there's a hundred post apocalyptic stories about adults doing anything for The Child, but the way it was handled in The Last of Us was great. Joel's ability to justify theft, betrayal, torture and mass murder, all in the name of personal loyalty or love or some other egoistic self-beholden concept was really refreshing. No doubt that he was doing what he needed to do. No need to consider the consequences of his actions beyond himself and what he was trying to save, whether they wanted to be saved or not. Equal parts hero and unrepentant monster.

>>9606955
this, although far too often they get "saved" by some moral cause or group that causes them to realize the good within themselves

>>9606430
Encino Man is my favourite film too

>>9602013
People who are extremely Machiavellian, and essentially evil, but you can still see a lot of relateable humanity in them. It's pure kino when they end up doing the right thing in the end.

One man armies who are either too jaded from war, or simply don't give a shit about any of the results, and just do kick ass shit. Like Doomguy.

>>9607771

This is what I imagined too

the spook who is just sad and cant so shit and then gets angry, think like bilbo in lotr or hal in ij, just less "intellectual"

I relate to characters who are intelligent, nihilistic and have a wicked sense of humor.

>>9603360
Just have a girl who warms up to the main character over time

Disillusioned young white men wandering around a city feeling lost and drinking too much.

>>9606799
what like jaime lannister in ASoIaF/GoT?

>gibsmetheyouslit

Trickster. From Jingle in Pickwick to Burlingame in Sotweed they come in many shapes and sizes.

>>9609651
nice
my favorite literary trickster is A.J. from Naked Lunch.

>>9609651
omg Jingle is such a prick - but so lovable too.

>>9608919

Have a (you) because Jaime Lannister has a sweet redemption arc and even before that he was the only one who wasn't a cunt to Tyrion in his youth.

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Villains that slowly become good guys, albeit not completely expelling their characteristic flaws. I don't read much, so I haven't come across any.
Another one isn't so much a character archetype as it is a progression they play: Early-introduced Normie side-character that slowly finds his way up the "might" ladder and unpredictably becomes very central to the story.

I don't read enough to come across any of these two in literature.

Could anyone point me out to any literature that have these two kinds of characters somewhere? Preferably medieval fantasy or (medieval) historical fiction? Comics/manga need not apply.

>>9609832

>Villains that slowly become good guys, albeit not completely expelling their characteristic flaws. I don't read much, so I haven't come across any.

Can you expound on this? Give an example? Not a literary one, just any you can think of.

>Another one isn't so much a character archetype as it is a progression they play: Early-introduced Normie side-character that slowly finds his way up the "might" ladder and unpredictably becomes very central to the story.

I love this archetype too, especially if the individual 'normie' realizes the situation and utilizes his 'might' to correct injustices.

>>9610110
>Can you expound on this? Give an example?

1: Pic related, Vegeta from Dragonball Z (anime). He comes to Earth with a lesser baddie to kill the "Superman" protagonist or bring him back to their side. He is defeated, escapes, but not without killing a bunch of good characters. Later, he comes back into the story and is reluctantly fighting with the good guys for the benefit of survival. The "Superman" protagonist tries to ease good morals onto him, but Vegeta laughs in his face and even betrays him shortly after. Vegeta is later on (long story short) forced into interacting with the good guys, not because he wants to (because he hates them all, as he's an outsider). Eventually another true antagonist comes and threatens all the good guys including Vegeta. Again he is forced to assist them to survive. Rinse and repeat, he slowly reveals his emotional side and even procreates with one of the more antique side-characters. Ends up becoming the (un)official sidekick of "Superman" protagonist. But still, by far the jerk of the two.

2: Merle Dixon from The Walking Dead (show) is a loose example of this (he dies while trying to do the first unambiguously "good" thing he has ever done in the show, by attacking the story arc's antagonist)

Sorry, I can't think of any other character. I'm almost certain I've found others through media.

magical old black person

>>9610205

>fighting with the good guys
by this I mean he fights ALONGSIDE the good guys. He fights on their side.

>>9610205

>Pic related, Vegeta from Dragonball Z

I pretty much understand the archetype you're talking about now. Vegeta turned good, reluctantly, and settled down. Hell, he even had a kid. Weird when you think about how he was introduced into the show.

>Merle Dixon from The Walking Dead (show) is a loose example of this (he dies while trying to do the first unambiguously "good" thing he has ever done in the show, by attacking the story arc's antagonist)

If she decided to brazenly attack a man who was well fortified then she's not very clever and probably was going to die in the show anyway, even if she was doing the good thing. I was thinking more along the lines of deep undercover types, who strain with evil to do the right thing, the one who is constantly engaged in a ghastly, mutual embrace with the antagonists. Those ones who have the mental fortitude to keep their head when most people would freak the fuck out. I guess off the top of my head I can think of Leo DiCaprio's character in The Departed, and even Matt Damons, to an extent, although it was vice versa in his case.

Morally Ambiguous: Humbert Humbert (Lolita)

>>9609832
The Fool's Tale (Nicole Galland)

>>9610365
>Merle Dixon
>she
What? Merle was a he. A guy.

>I was thinking more along the lines of...
Oh yes, I remember that character type and DiCaprio example from The Departed. Jaime Lannister, well, sort of. Or maybe not. Can't quite compare the two in most aspects.

So, you can't think of any literature with a character that has a Vegeta characteristic transformation? (still hopeful)

>>9610389
Thank you.

>>9610381
>HH
>"ambiguous"
are you for real anon? The whole point of the book is that he's a sick fuck

>>9610400

>What? Merle was a he. A guy.

I don't watch the show so I wouldn't know.

>Oh yes, I remember that character type and DiCaprio example from The Departed. Jaime Lannister, well, sort of. Or maybe not. Can't quite compare the two in most aspects.

Maybe Jaime Lannister is kind of the archetype? I dunno? I mean, is he a good guy? He might be. He used to be a jerk. He maintained his dignity while he was imprisoned by the Tully's and was ultimately released, but still had to endure yet another capture, this time losing a hand. He began to see the world differently after that, which maybe could be considered a 'bad' or evil character reluctantly turning to the 'good' side, but in Jaime's case he was essentially forced to the good side.

to answer your question I don't really read fiction too much but maybe The Good Soldier by Mardox Ford

>>9610450
Thank you I'll give that a try sometime.

The intellectual who has his beliefs slowly shattered over the course of novel/story.
Anyone have any recs?

Is there a name for the Gandalf/Dumbledore archetype? Basically a character who seems endlessly wise and almost omniscient. Their presence gives off a vibe of implacable intelligence and protection.

>>9606519
Within and without. I also agree and think they make for great storytelling

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I have yet to take the "archetypes 101" class, so I'll just go with whatever category yopu could fit this guy in.

>>9610609
www.tvtropes.org

Look up Gandalf. They call him The Chessmaster, The Mentor, among other stuff.

>>9602013
The force of nature. I like seeing how the characters and the world reacts to them. In a way I find myself learning more about the world when such a character is introduced, e.g. Malvo [Fargo], Haliax [Kingkiller Chronicle]

>>9603311
do you have an example for this? Very curious.

>>9602013
The fool who thinks he is wise.

>>9603377
>>9603360
>Isn't trying to be realistic
There in lies the problem. Breaking down the archetype ends up with schoolboy fantasies at best.

The misunderstood professor who could have saved the world if people just listened. Think Jeff Goldblum in Independence Day or - for a literary exemple - Jordan Peterson.