what do we think about hitch? i personally love him. i don't

>>9600551
What are the things you don't agree with?

Glad God took him so he could get busy getting into Heaven

>>9600551
>we
fuck off you hivemind piece of shit i bet you watch hitchens videos and try to come up with a comment that will get liked the most

He's the sort of person that stupid people think is smart because they're especially susceptible to rhetoric which he was a master of. When you really get into it his logic is poor and his reporting is notoriously shoddy.

>>9600551
I liked him a lot as well, OP. Though not for any of the "new atheist" stuff where he got the most publicity.

>>9600595
Not OP, but what were some examples of what you consider to be poor logic?

I think he was the only one with a level head on the left about the Iraq war, though it is funny to hear pseuds today talk about "how he was wrong." Then again, being against the Iraq war is babby's first attempt at geopolitical criticism. History will look favorably upon the Iraq war, but not at the vacuum we created by leaving prematurely.

>Mfw there are people to this day that actually believe Saddam didn't have WMDs or chemical labs just before the invasion and that's there's "noooooooo way" that anything got pushed into Syria
Lel. Obviously I'm not saying (You) believe that, but i think it's just the opposite, where people who think they're smart like to hate on him, kind of like first year gender studies students disliking Hemingway for his portrayal of women.

Hitch was okay, and witty and entertaining if nothing else.

>>9600649
>History will look favorably upon the Iraq war
Not that guy but you're fucking retarded.

A really good speaker. Probably the best of our era.

I miss him.

>>9600663
Do you have any rationale for thinking it won't be? Besides the pop-"intellectuals" seeing the aftermatg as low-hanging fruit, the fact remains that the Saddam regime fell. The issue is not the war, it was, and still is, the lack of coordination and leadership in the region after the fall of the Baathist party. Or did you think Saddam was running a "progressive, secular benevolent dictatorship?"

>>9600683
>muh WMDs
>muh corrupt dictatorship
When was the last time the USA went to africa to invade some resourceless shithole ruled by 5 different fucked up warlords to stop them?
If in 2017 you still don't believe the iraq war was for oil you're a clueless shit and you should probably stick to watching hitchens compilations on youtube.

>>9600745
>What the Iraq war was for
What? We aren't talking about the actual justifications, we're discussing the outcome and the benefits of it. I'm not saying WMDs would have been the end all justification to begin with, nor am I denying anything related to our intervention for profits (mainly because I still don't know enough about all of the actual details, and have a healthy dose of scepticism toward anyone who thinks it's as clean cut as that).

I'm talking about the necessity of it and the positive outcomes. Just in the exact same way I would support intervening in Korea with a UN coalition.

I think you're either missing the point, or intentionally trying to direct the conversation in a way that was not intended, friendo.

>>9600649
>the Iraq war, but not at the vacuum we created by leaving prematurely.
pragmatically speaking, that vacuum was inevitable. committing to a ww2/marshall plan-like engagement toward iraq simply wasn't an option considering the culture at the time (and still wouldn't be an option). iraq was doomed to fail.

>>Mfw there are people to this day that actually believe Saddam didn't have WMDs
do you have anything to back up your belief that he did?

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>>9600551
I love him too, especially for introducing me to some great authors and artists but he could be petty at times like pic related.

But he did change my life or at least its tastes. I did not like his memoir that much tho. His old 80s and 90s writings are his best work in my opinion. I once read an article by him on Goya which absolutely blew me away.

>>9600770
By saying iraq was better off being invaded by a country a continent away and without Saddam you are talking about the justifications for it moron. As for not knowing enough, you're the exact type of person who doesn't make his mind up until someone else makes it up for you.

>necessity of it and the positive outcomes
What positive outcomes?
>Just in the exact same way I would support intervening in Korea with a UN coalition.
Unsurprisingly you're retarded.

>>9600787
I agree with you there, Americans were not looking to nation-build and the political capital wouldn't have been there, I agree. I'm just saying the actual intervention there was an overall "good" project, just that the issue with everything going on wasn't simply "because we intervened," but because he half-assed it, similar to a Vietnam-esque mistake.

>do you have anything to back up your belief that he did?
I do, though there is a reason I'm only discussing this on 4chan and not going around trying to get a book deal or anything. I just think that common sense would dictate that Saddam would not have gotten rid of all of his previous arsenal after the UN told him "bad boy :) those aren't for you!" Then there's the issue with all of the traffic from Iraq to Syria right before the initial invasion. And after a quick google, I found a write-up with an example of the kinds of things I'm talking about which does a better job articulating it than me (with links to the original sources quoted) if you're interested.

https://mic.com/articles/62103/how-did-syria-get-chemical-weapons-did-they-come-from-our-old-friend-saddam#.StFv1dLAA
>>9600800
>you are talking about the justifications for it moron
Again, just right over your head.

Okay, let me try to lay this out for you so you are not getting confused with what I am trying to say.
>I don't care about the official American foreign policy justifications for going into Iraq
>I think some were probably fair, some were probably not
>I don't really care about the Halliburton/Cheney nonsese where the majority of contracts went to closely affiliated private contractors
>I'm not saying there wasn't a push to go in from big oil money and other private investors trying to get a hold of previously nationalized oil fields
>On the other hand, I'm not necessarily agreeing with the conspiracy theory that that alone is why we went in

If you want to talk about that stuff, go to /pol/.

It happened, they did it, we went in. I'm talking about some of the positive effects which were a result from going in - regardless of official/non-official justifications both on behalf of the federal government and of American "public intellectuals." I'm disputing the claim that the Iraq war was fully a mistake, not talking about the reason we went in. I'm sorry if you can't seem to separate the two, but that's not my job to argue in the position of someone else for a view point that I neither hold, nor am advocating for.

>Unsurprisingly[,] you're retarded.
To be fair, this is a fault on my behalf, not yours. I wasn't clear enough. I did not mean to imply that I would support an intervention "because" of that necessarily, just that if we found ourselves in a situation where we were intervening (regardless of whatever the "reason" was for going in) I would still support the overall outcome of the fall of the oppressive regime and would see it as an overall good move.

>>9600855
What were the positive outcomes of the iraq war?
Really just sounds like you're for the US being world police along with being completely ignorant or not caring about the geopolitics of other countries.

I am a devout Catholic, so I quite naturally think Hitchens was a shitter. >muh Mother Teresa . Guess who has two confirmed miracles and is therefore now a saint? Fuck Hitchens.

He's charming to listen to and watch on television, though.

>>9600855
i suppose it's hard to disagree with the idea that, in the abstract, it is a "good" thing to depose "bad" people from positions of power. i just can't divorce the intervention from the results in the particular case of iraq, especially in light of the fact that our leaders were well aware that a power vacuum would likely arise (see cheney's comments during desert storm under hw bush).

your link has me reconsidering my understanding of the wmd situation, even if it hasn't changed my stance on the big picture. i still believe the media played an incredibly disingenuous role in pushing the wmd line so hard without ample evidence, but that's neither here nor there for the moment. anyway you seem bright and informed enough on the subject, cheers.

>>9600916
>What were the positive outcomes of the iraq war?
Well, where to start?
>[theoretically] the chance to form a democratic nation in the middle east where there was previously a harsh dictator
>The end of state-sponsored attacks against the Kurdish people and one less nation going after them
Frankly, the fact that Turkey is a member of NATO is hilarious.
>Ability to establish a country more open and free to interact with Western society as a whole (we're not just talking about American business interests, but behaving like adults on the international level with developed nations)
>The fall of the Saddam regime
That's the biggest one. Your question is like asking "what were the positive outcomes of going to war with Germany in WW2?" I'm talking about positive outcomes of the actions done, not the negative actions resulting from the lack of continuing after the fall, anon.

>Really just sounds like you're for the US being world police
No, I'm in favor of the world being "world police." As an international community, we shouldn't be so quick to assume that sort of nonsense is acceptable. You can continue to live a comfortable life in the US with no immediate threats to your life and a Publix just down the road, but there's no need to pretend others are dumb for caring about the situation of individuals on the other side of the globe.

>being completely ignorant or not caring about the geopolitics of other countries
You have literally no idea what you're even trying to say with this. Obviously you're not, nor have you been, taking this seriously. It's not like I'm going to convince you otherwise, and that's fine, I'm just supporting why I believe what I do.

>>9601052
Yea, I'm not trying to justify what the government did, I'm just trying to take into account what other results happened rather than taking the pseudo-intellectual stance of "hurr durr, blood for oil, imperialism, etc. etc." And yea, I agree with you on the media being disingenuous, but that's sensationalism for ya, eh? Cheers to you as well, anon.

New Atheism died with him.

>>9600551
I don't know, ask reddit

>>9601404
probably right. he was built for youtube, no disrespect to his writing or anything, and i think if new atheism is remembered as a movement it'll be remembered for vanguarding on youtube. Meanwhile the other horsemen don't have the right flare or are too old, Harris is too monotone and buddhist and Krauss should stick to math, etc.

>>9601404
New atheism was cancerous to begin with, though, and religion was also Hitch's least favorite thing to talk about. His publishers loved it since it sold a lot of books, and so that's what got pushed the most. Have you read anything by him pre-reddit circle jerking?

>>9601521
>religion was also Hitch's least favorite thing to talk about
Source?
I know he said he wished he could get away from politics, but can't think of any time he said he wished he could get away from religious questions

>>9601521
As I recall, he had a deep love of Homer.

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>>9601560
>mmm, beer

He was right about Muslims and Hillary Clinton.

>>9601545
>Source?
Hitch-22

Do you know anything at all about the man, or do you just know him from "mega super duper intellect DESTROYSSSSSSS idiotic STUPID Muslim Sand NiGGER!!!21!!!"

>>9601701
I feel like if he were still alive he would have seen Trump winning from the very start of the race.

>>9600551
Sort of new to Hitch but I'm interested. What are some of his wittiest remarks in his career?

>>9600770
>the positive outcomes

Holy shit, L O FUCKING L

>>9602012
Considering the context of what I was saying, it should be obvious that we were discussing positive outcomes of the regime falling and what would have ideally happened had the world maintained a presence there for "nation building."

>>9601708
i don't remember that, my bad, point me to a page number though

>>9602765
Sorry, I guess that may not be common knowledge. I don't know a page number off the top of my head, especially since I listened to it as an audio book quite a few semesters ago while at work

I'll try to see if I can find anything about it. Maybe it wasn't his least favorite thing to discuss, but I remember him talking about the publishers wanting the title to be "god Is Not Great" and that he cracked a joke at wanting it to be just "god is not." But some of that may have been at the Q&A at the end of the book which only the audio book has.

Let me see if I can find another interview too, I believe with Charlie Rose where when they sit down, Rose's first question is "Christopher Hitchens: when people meet you, what's the first thing they want to talk to you about?"

And then his answer was something to the effect of "Well, lately it's been religion, though I wish it weren't so; I've grown incredibly bored with the topic" and then some other stuff along the lines of his first love being literature and then his time as a journalist and yada yada yada.

His younger Brother Peter became Christian, they even had a debate and C.H. made him look like an idiot.

P.H. said after our Manchester bombing that troops on the streets were illogical and unnecessary. I tweeted him back after the 2nd London attack within a month and he just brushed me off with an Ad-Hominem when I brought up how useful those extra troops on the streets would have been.

He said: 'It's amazing how little someone could know of their country'

What a bellend, amirite?

>>9600551
I love him too.

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>>9600551
He's pretty cool. You know, despite being a trotskyist.

>>9602865
Did you listen to the debate they did? Regardless of whether or not you like either or them, Christopher was just a much better orator.

>>9600551
He was an excellent showman and con artist, popular with the credulous

>>9600745
>the iraq war was for oil
*how* much oil did the US extract from Iraq...?

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>spent three years writing a 180k word novel
>rejected by tons of agents
>finally self-published it
>a couple of trial reads but no purchases
>three months later
>see today that someone has bought it
>also a a 5-star plus review
>holyshit
>go on amazon
>look under my book
>tfw it's my mom using her real name
>review just says "love you xxx"

I don't deserve her bros.

>>9603228

at least you can greentext faggot

>>9600745
>>9600663
>muh kurdish genocide
>muh harbouring terrorists
>muh invading kuwait
>muh not letting inspectors do their work to make sure they didnt have WMDs

>>9603228
this made me genuinely sad

>>9603228
Sounds like what Peter Hitchens must go through living in the shadow of his brother.

>>9603228
sad but also nice of your mom

>>9603222
It's not so much what was gained, but what was prevented. Saddam threatened to back petrocurrency in the euro rather than dollar.

>>9600565
iraq war, mainly

>>9600551
>he is probably the wittiest person i've seen.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

>"how dare you" man is witty in the eyes of the reddit newfags

>>9604246
Why?

>>9600944

>Guess who has two confirmed miracles
>confirmed miracles

I'm guessing still no one

>>9600944
lol

kys

teresa was a hypocrite and is literally burning in hell if there is a hell.

>>9602865
peter is an absolute faggot and christopher would be ashamed of him

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>>9604392
Just keep plugging those ears and closing those eyes, Anon.

>>9604883
you have access to (virtually all of) the entire information ever known to humanity with the internet

yet you believe in fairy tales rather than basic scientific facts that you could easily verify

this would be hilarious, if not so sad

whatever makes you happy, though

>>9600595

He is an amazing speaker, like his brother. Both are very clear, deliberate and never seem to be out of their element.

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>>9604981
The Miracle of the Sun doesn't make me "happy." It fills me with fear and joy, as do all miracles.

>>9604981
reddit spacing
thanks God you're simply shitposting

>>9604246
You probaby don't even understand his position on it.

>>9600551
Had a chance to see him in person commenting about global security challenges of the 21st century. He was the first person I saw in a debate that was ok with being called a racist or bigot and kept on going. He was open about his disillusionment with Communism and being a drunk. His greatest tactic was to stay even tempered after saying something that got a rise out his opponents.

>>9600583
here's your (you)