Is Nick Land the Nietzsche of our times? Why do only we

>>9597528
Why doesn't he have a wife and kids?

>>9597538
pretty sure he does

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>>9597538
He does though. Obviously he doesn't talk about them much on his blog, that wouldn't be very safe.

>>9597567
did he write that tweet himself? if he did i would love him even more

>>9597567
>dad tries to cook popcorn in the skillet
>he just ends up staring at the wall for half an hour while the stove's on
>doesn't even notice when the popcorn starts popping
>burns it to shit
>throws it away and mumbles something about Twitter

>>9597577
He did but he deleted it I think.

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>>9597593
>popcorn spawns infinitely, black and twisted
>swamps apartment, bursting walls like lovecraftian nightmare
>blackened corn floods the streets
>passerby fall into stupefied, bewildered horror, hemhorraging blood as alien kernels grow out of their eyes
>from the dark and twisted mind of nick land comes xeno-snax: can what is popping you make it to level-2

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Rus you're embarrassing us.

>>9597724
>-Rupi Kaur

>>9597724
I always want to talk to nick on twitter but have a mighty fear of making a fool of myself like that guy

>>9597724
>>9598020
>>9598059
nick's prose sounds like that though

>>9597528
Where do I start with Dark Enlightenment?

>>9598073
But when Land does it he actually has something interesting to say (beneath all the jargon). It's excusable for Land also because he makes no pretense of being a "poet"

>>9598131
>when land does it, that makes it good

honestly, though, I kind of agree but still

>>9598094
Probably with the essay of the same name.

Looked at his stuff yesterday.

Looks like good shit. But where to begin?

>>9598094
start with moldbug

I made a Nick Land thread like 10 days ago before sleep; next morning it disappeared, even from the archive. It was about egaliterianism. Can mods delete threads in a way, they are not even archived?

>>9598338
it's never archived here if the mods delete it. but try the warosu archive.

>>9598338
yes.

>>9598344
I found it on the archive you posted. Got more answers than I could've hoped.
https://warosu.org/lit/thread/S9575630

some people in art circles like Nick Land, they're increasingly trying to unperson him though

>>9598529
examples?

>>9598327
I have an epub of Gentle Introduction to Unqualified Reservations if anyone wants it.

>>9598531
He is likely talking about:
https://shutdownld50.tumblr.com/post/158928600961/no-platform-for-land-on-nick-lands-racist

>>9598327
Moldbug's tradition boner makes him mostly useless.

pretty much he's the death grips of philosophy

hack

i like to think that nick's kids know nothing about his blog or weird views andwill randomly discover them in their 20s

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As a philosopher maybe it's because he represents in some ways an interesting moment in the history of continental philosophy, which is another turn of the dialectic of history and Marxist philosophy. Zizek and Badiou aside, he's one of the few (and maybe the last) whose work continues to draw on the legacy of Marx and May '68 and so on, however remotely. Thinking about Land is still a way of continuing a very old historical process of thinking history in terms of capital, although of course with Land capital turns on his head and returns to devour humanity like a monstrous horror. So you can read him as literature or as philosophy, in a way. He's the gateway into the new unknown, cold and distant stars, nascent AI and asteroid mining...

Incidentally, if you guys are interested to know what an alternate-reality Nick Land would be like, where by some transmigration of souls he instead becomes a cheerful Jesuit mystic, check out Teilhard de Chardin. The noopshere is basically the embodiment of Christian transhumanism, Landian sentient capital with a happier spin. Instead of the devouring hole, the Omega point, and instead of an all-devouring capitalist vortex, noogenesis...the parallels are quite interesting.

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>>9598670
I don't mean to say there are no other Marxist philosophers, of course. There are plenty. So I should walk that back a little bit. But Land's thought really tries to push things to the event horizon of theory.

Culturally also he's a kind of thinker of ambivalence in many ways and a contrarian, which is another thing that I think makes him /lit/-approved, as an exile and an outsider. Thinking capital-as-despair is still a way of thinking capital, though stripped of its socially revolutionary potential. This is where NRx is in many ways, it seems, a largely theoretical and literary exercise that doesn't have - and isn't likely to foster - anything like an actual social organization. Alt-Right stuff - wherever that is - co-opted most of that momentum, and that elected Trump, and Trump is squandering most of that positive cultural capital by saying and doing Trump things.

Land's thesis and sources are at this point fairly consistent, however. In some ways his reverence for coldness is a kind of a turning point because he's one of the first post-libidinal libidinal economists, a guy whose paranoia eclipsed his own drives and allowed him some perspective and focus on the real nature of the consumption that drives the consumer economy. Ex Machina channeled some of this, or maybe it was just in the air.

There's also the fact that he's a kind of devoted Sinophile also, and we may be headed into a century the central weathervane of which stands in Beijing rather than in Washington, Paris, London or Moscow. So there's a lot going on with Land for philosophy-dweebs like me that is, however horrifying in many ways, nevertheless strangely refreshing: and while it may be the vacuum of space rather than Nietzsche's clean, dry air, it is at least, for the moment, something different.

>gourmet alt-right rhetoric
"no"

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>>9597607
Audible jej

Going to repost some lecture seminars another anon posted a few weeks ago. I've listened to all of Bitcoin and Philosophy and highly recommend it. It dives things you'd expect, how bitcoin works and various libertarian/anarchist utopia ideas, but the second half of the series is much more about Ontology, and the idea of "blockchaining everything" as a means of verification and creating a "trustless" reality.

Qwernomics and Path Dependency is a much stranger series. The first 4 sessions are straight forward enough, discussing how and why QWERTY came to be the dominant keyboard for the last 200 years. The second half of the seminar is fucking bizarre. They start off with Geology of Morals from 1000 Plateaus and quickly dive into numerology and what I frankly see as superstition, though I was a bit lost for most of it.

Haven't finished Outer Edges yet, but it's sensible, and has as it's focus "catabolic geopolitics", lots of discussion of Brexit, Seasteading, The Patchwork, the nature of the state, etc. Very much an NRx lecture series.

------------------repost>
https://www.youtube.com/user/mshazeyjaney
This is the guy who uploaded it. In the "playlist" ribbon click the arrow at the right and you find this:

Qwernomics: Path Dependency & Semiotic Fatality Session I
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLPs4TRYh1Unpf9t5BgA_6VHr-Oyw2Cy8m

Nick Land - Bitcoin and Philosophy
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLPs4TRYh1Unr-_knTP9pf84eT698qCj-I

Nick Land - Outer Edges
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLPs4TRYh1Unq8xFETda6BHxbQeps-uTtO

>>9598704
>alt-right
"no"

>>9598831
Thanks!

Do you have Bitcoin and Philosophy 1?

>>9597528
No, he's more akin to some obscure philosopher who was rightly ignored by his contemporaries and has now been lost to history.

>>9598953
the only thing cringier than nick land are the 20-something beta nerds who give him and his ideas any sort of attention

>>9598953
If you think Nick Land is obscure you have literally no clue about how academic philosophy operates.

>>9597567
Imagine if Nick Land was your dad.

>>9598535
I want it. Can you upload it on Anonfiles?

>>9598548
There are a lot of fucked up things with Nick, but of course they attack him with slapdash racism. It's like accusing Michael Gira of rape.

>>9598831
nice post, have a (You)

DUDE, LESBIANS LMAO

>>9598831
>Nick Land - Bitcoin and Philosophy

sweet! I thought all he had was that one video where some kid interrupts him and tells him to skip all his argumentation and "just get the point"

>>9598931
yeah, where the fuck is the first video

>>9598831
Wasn't expecting Nick to have such a shy voice.

>>9599037
Absolutely. It'll be a few hours though. I also have Land's Dark Enlightenment if you want that.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t5gqHII2drA&index=20&list=PLsNBWUypcFJvRZuEvPfGGdW9K2Fu5BWRm

There's Bitcoin and Philosophy 1

>>9598554
>tradition boner
Unlike the rest of the movement that actually calls itself "neo-reactionary"?

>>9599525
but neo tho

>>9598931
Nope, unfortunately I only have those playlists. Part is probably available if you have the link, but they're all unlisted, probably because of the ncrp cutting ties with land.

Does anyone have video of lands spring seminar that ended in april?

>>9598554
If you think Moldbug has a "tradition boner" you didn't understand him, or more likely, you didn't even read him.

In a prior thread, an anon in contact with Land said his next book was on bitcoin, those lectures will probably give you a taste of the book

>>9598059

You should do so anyway, Nick doesn't look like he has enough connection to others to even feel ashamed by your antics. The rest of the internet might care, but do you really care about the internet...

>>9598554

NRx in general, and specially Moldbug, have nothing to do with tradition. Quite on the contrary, the idea is precisely accelerating away both from Enlightenment AND the controlled opposition of the conservative Right (NRx considers the modern Right to be like a Jester, playing the role of making themselves appear as fools in comparison to democracy).

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>>9599596
So sort of like planetary Taoist capitalism? Let capital take care of itself, harmonize yourself with the great Way?

Moldbug seems to focus more on Great Man theory, the idea of the CEO at the helm of the ship, while Nick Land prefers just to focus on the formal operations of capital itself, which is - at present, anyways - exceeding anything like human potential for governance in the absence of an absolutist sensibility.

>>9598699

I don't think even NRx 'enthusiasts', so to speak, pretend they are going to become a social movement of any kind. Land's accelerationism is more of a thesis on a fundamental force of nature, as if we are going to be engulfed by the capital, like it or not. The only way to "act" in NRx is to promote convergence to optimization, which can be done much better by Exit rather than by Voice. Kinda like Peter Thiel if you stripped Thiel of every apparent good intent and left in his place a billionaire technocratic economic-warmonger.

>>9599612

Yes, Land takes the capital to the level of a great old one that has far more optimization capabilities than we ever will. Accelerationism esteems from wanting to get to that breaking point, where the capital does not necessarily need us anymore, as fast as possible. Either we become the Borg, or we become extinct. There are folks like Chardin who advocate for a more "Star Trekky" scenario of merging ourselves to the process of the capital and changing it into something more amenable to our individuality (that would be much more Taoist, whereas I think Land is a complete nihilist).

>>9599559
nice

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>>9599620
Good post.

>the only way to "act" in NRx is to promote convergence to optimization, which can be done much better by Exit rather than by Voice.
I agree.

>Kinda like Peter Thiel if you stripped Thiel of every apparent good intent and left in his place a billionaire technocratic economic-warmonger.
True.

>>9599653
Also good post.

>Either we become the Borg, or we become extinct. There are folks like Chardin who advocate for a more "Star Trekky" scenario of merging ourselves to the process of the capital and changing it into something more amenable to our individuality (that would be much more Taoist, whereas I think Land is a complete nihilist).
Yep. I agree. Deleuzian perhaps also.

I was trying to start a Chardin thread the other day but nobody seemed to be picking up on it. In fairness he kind of goes against the grain of NRx tho. Ah well.

>>9597567
I heard they are not his own. Don't know if true though

>>9599718
>I was trying to start a Chardin thread the other day but nobody seemed to be picking up on it.

Isn't that mostly because Chardin doesn't really saying anything novel.

I like his CCRU days more than anything else desu

Are readers of Land here interested in him as a provocateur or as something of a sage? Are you interested in his thinking and the issues he explores, or dedication to his conclusions and politics?

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>>9599786
Depends on how approach it, I suppose. What's interesting about Chardin for me is that he's pro-God and pro-technology. Heidegger is pro-Being and anti-tech, Nick Land is pro-tech and anti-Being, a lot of Marxists are anti-God and anti-capital (no surprise there) but Chardin is sort of in this unique place as mystic-transhumanist. He could have been Jacques Ellul, for instance - Catholics and Marxists have a pretty rich relationship, as much perhaps as Marxists and Freudians. But he isn't.

Chardin never really tries to separate his interest in evolution from his faith. So I guess in one sense, you're right, that he's not saying anything novel, but at the same time what he is saying is just interestingly different.

Of course he's associated with a lot of flaky New Age stuff too, and of much of that the less said the better. Still tho. I can't really think of a good reason to disagree a priori with this idea of a noopshere, especially not in the age of the internet, acceleration, and so on. Land's pessimism is, as usual, likely to conform with the usually sad and disappointing fruits of history and dialectic and so on, but Chardinian optimism maybe makes it a little easier for me to get out of bed in the morning. And to have a little more respect for science too and shed those parts of Heidegger's antipathy towards tech that are outgrown. Stuff like that.

>>9599870
If Land is to negative for you, just take the crazy optimistic Lala-Land version : Ray Kurzweil

>>9599313
That would be lovely.

>>9599883
Kurzweil is a retard

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>>9599858
For me at least I wound up reading him because I was still on a late-Marxist bent. Sage-provocateur sounds about right. And because his position is relatively consistent it makes him easier to use in conversation as a point of reference. I don't share his love of Bataille or Lovecraft but in terms of allegorizing capitalism they're pretty useful models, sadly.

>>9599883
Yeah, I've read him. Was a while ago. Kurzweil is definitely a god-tier futurist writer.

Benjamin Bratton is way better than Land.

>>9599906
Benjamin Button ?

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>>9599917
pretty sure he means this guy

>>9599732
He married Anna Greenspan who I believe was his doctoral student so I find this extremely unlikely since people of that education level typically don't pump out multiple kids in their early 20s and become single mothers.

>>9599895
Kurzweil scared the shit out of me when I first heard of his thought in sixth grade. What does it say about my psyche that I accept Land but hate Kurzweil?

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>>9599949
You find Kurzweil scarier than Land? What bothers you about him?

I thought we liked Land though. Fanged Noumena is pretty excellent, and one of the best books of this decade.

Not the biggest fan of his jargon though, even his twitter posts are hard to comprehend because of it.

He's up there with Thomas Ligotti for the spergiest living philosophical horror author.

>>9599957
/lit/ does like land, land threads are always popular

>>9599917
this guy

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IXan6TvMqgk

also TedTalks btfo!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yo5cKRmJaf0

>>9599977
We don't though. He's a retard like Moldbug and a passing fad.

He may redeem himself with his new work on bitcoin but overall, he's just another neoliberal with an edgy flavor to market to gullible kids who want novelty.

>>9600019
It all depends on whether leftism ends up comitting suicide in this century or not. France can serve as a good example of a complete collapse of leftist politics in favor of populism versus liberalism.

>>9600019
>another neoliberal
I would like to know what the hell doesn't pass as a neoliberal then.

>>9599954
At the time I was scared of the rapid change that would occur and that humans would lose their sense of self. At this point I think I've just accepted that that would happen and would rather see humans superseded completely than proceed as lumpen husks of our former selves.

>>9600019
>he's just another neoliberal
You'd have some credit if you'd have called him paleoliberal instead.

>>9599858
I'm not dedicated to his politics, especially not nrx or the "human biodiversity" crap. I'm more interested in his philosophy, specifically his sense of ontology and what may even be termed metaphysics, than any first order politics. His ncrp lectures are good because he keeps to cold analysis, what he calls metapolotics, and has the ability to keep his first order political alliegences out of it.

He knows the boundary between philosophy and politics, and is intellectually honest. A real shame the ncrp caved to the "no platform" stuff, his lectures were good.

>>9600102
>"human biodiversity" crap
You're not being serious, are you?

>>9600067
>>9600082
Explain to me how he doesn't encourage people to passively allow techno-capitalism to continue its reach.

By all means I'd like to be proven wrong.

>>9600109
expanding its reach*

>>9600019
>passing fad
Hasn't he been going for nearly 20 years now? that's a long fad.

>>9600119
And didn't he dismiss the first half of his career because he doesn't remember/recognize it due to methamphetamine abuse?

Nick was not cut out for teaching. When I knocked on his office door there would be a frantic clatter as he hid his dope-smoking paraphernalia, and a breathless squeak of “Who is it?” He was stoned and his office stunk. But he radiated an excitement that made philosophy fun, throwing out offhand remarks that brought fresh illumination to many problems.

>>9600109
You're missing the bigger picture.

>>9600153
By all means tell me what I'm missing.

>>9600059
It isn't quite that simple, Political science has collapsed in the western hemisphere, people think it began with Trump, but that's only because they weren't interested in Politics before now; It began with Obama, a better actor than Trump could ever hope to be, behind the cool collected facade he was so amateurish and incompetent, Bill Clinton tried to convince the DNC to give the election to the Republicans in 2012.

>>9600128
Was it actual methamphetamine, not just regular old amphetamines? I find the picture of Nick Land the academic philosopher slamming meth between lectures pretty funny.

>>9600137
I can't see Land smoking weed.

>>9600184
Who cares, no one can prove to me I'm wrong or state what it is that I'm missing. He's a neoliberal shill.

>>9600188
Holt shit you're so buttblasted. Who exactly do you think Land is a shill for?

I personally would still prefer a version of the future where AI/Capital rule rather than a browned muslim sharia/socialist hellhole

>>9600221
Wouldn't we all?

>>9600232
on /pol yes, not sure about /lit

>>9600197
land has been coopting neoreaction since its inception and turning it into another commodified theory fit to have a seat within the marketplace of ideas instead of competing with capitalism itself. he's at least honest though, making it prostrate itself to big c capital. unless he's being ironic it's transparently neoliberal. cyberpunk fetishism is neoliberal at its core. it caters to the swpl filter bubble and distracts them from identity politics (which is another distraction from class politics).

>>9600242
Nothing Land says contradicts Moldbug and neoreaction has always been diametrically opposed to any ideology focused on class politics.

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>>9600188
What's wrong with neoliberalism? There are enough charlatans peddling socialism and class warfare nonsense out there if that's what you are looking for.

>>9600256
land belongs to the "liberal" side of neoreaction. he thinks patchwork is a good thing, but that state of affairs pushes first order liberalism (anarchy) back to the level of the sovcorp. what prevents one sovcorp conquering another? well nothing, except "exit" is supposed to take the place of war incentives. the citizens are thus consumers and "vote with their feet" which is different from democracy how? because they're bused out instead of in?

honestly patchwork is the weakest part of moldbug. treating patchwork as an end in itself (as opposed to a temporary interbellum) means one has to presuppose westphalian "sovereignty", and we're headed back into the enlightenment again. at least moldbug doesn't treat patchwork as an end. i interpret it as more of a rhetorical device to convince his libertarian leaning audience.

>>9597528
I really, really want to see Nick Land as Sam Harris's guest.

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Normies are starting to see the true way of reality

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/jun/04/forget-far-right-populism-crypto-anarchists-are-the-new-masters-internet-politics

>>9600333
Land only sides with Corprocratism/ Techno capitalism because he's a singularitarian, but not in the Kurzweillian sense for humanity but rather against humanity as it will become obsolete and also obliberated anyway.

I introduced /lit/ to Nick Land

AMA

>>9600419
No you didn't, fuck off.

>>9600333

Not sure I get the impression that Land pretends the patchwork to be even a semi-permanent thing either. He seems much more keen on people establishing optimized technocracies as soon as democracy goes down, and the patchwork may never actually come to fruition because the Capital simply skipped that step, so fast it accelerated towards a singularity. At least that seems to be where he was going in Fanged Noumena and even more in his later writings (which are basically blog posts but yeah).

>>9600419
I introduced Nick Land to /lit/

ask him anything

>>9600432
He may be moving slightly from the blogging format since he's writing his new book, made those lecture series, and will be a regular contributor to Jacobin mag. He'll definitely keep his blogs though.

>>9600435
Actually I did but I lost the image.

>>9600419
>>9600435
I'm Nick Land and /lit/ sucks and /pol/ is better
nigger

>>9600432
From listening to the outer edges seminar, he does seem to posit the patchwork as an eternal metapolotics frame, in which states compete, are born and killed, it's darwinism as an eternal process. He sees no utopic end, or perfection of the state

>>9597724
HAHAHAHHA I saw that last night and felt bad for him when there was no acknowledgement.

>>9600432
>>9600408
he seems to fetishize competition for its own sake. so a singular superintelligence would be horrible, because it wouldn't have any impetus to improve upon itself. it'd be even worse of it was remotely human, because it'd be tempted to slave itself to self-induced orgasms in the absence of an existential threat. one more reason why we don't deserve to reach that apex. multipolar singularities rather than just "a" singularity would seem to be his forte. thus, patchwork or a non-political patchwork like system of hypercompetitive intelligences.

>>9600299
>>9600197
Perfect. Now I'm 100% confident that he's a distraction.

The more he sucks the dick of bitcoin the less confident I'll be in bitcoin itself.

>>9600461
go back to /g/ Nick

>>9600479

Point, and that seems far from conventional liberals/neoliberals as well. A superintelligence would probably not engage in half the drivel we promote in society, let alone if it had to fiercely compete against another.

>>9600484
I don't think Land even programs. I could be wrong, but he almost never talks about the technicalities of technology. Not that there's anything wrong with that, he's a philosopher after all.

>>9600479
>to slave itself to self-induced orgasms in the absence of an existential threat
scifi predicted that autonomous agents are bound to become trapped in circular reasoning of infinite loops or psychotic schizos if anthropomorphized a la Shodan or Glados.

>>9600475
The poem even had "(for Nick Land)" in the title, pure cringe.

>>9600472
exactly, which makes him not reactionary at all. the reactionary posits the process of involution (as opposed to evolution) as its first principle. we're degenerating from generation to generation, our best and brightest being genocided in iq shredders. the past was better according to the reactionary, and we should try to return to that stable order in order to halt the descent into madness.

>>9600479
No, read these essays.
http://www.xenosystems.net/against-orthogonality/
http://www.xenosystems.net/will-to-think/

>>9600480
>I-if I just call any thinker that challenges my narrow worldview a shill I will never have to think too hard and have my assumptions dismantled
Even /pol/ never gets this bad.

>>9600511
no, he's saying that values do not transcend intelligence for advanced intelligences. but it does not apply to us. and it doesn't matter if values aren't orthogonal to intelligence if we don't act that way and end up self stimulating if given the ability to manipulate the minutiae of our cognitive capabilities. you need to make a jump from human intelligence to advanced intelligence, not stop halfway to avoid the trap. or you can just not start with the human at all.

>>9600527
> just jerk off to corporations, what, are you bluepilled?

>>9600184
It wasn't just amphetamines, Land practised several non-drug methods of a achieving altered states of consciousness, including prolonged total sleep deprivation. Somebody in a earlier thread explained how Warwick university refuses to release the copyright to a bunch of his stuff related to this.

>>9600392
Jamie Bartlett is literally retarded and thinks blockchains can solve everything including cancer.

>>9600605
>>9600605
Block chain ontology seems identical to baudrillards perfect crime, the impossible exchange of the world for its duplicate. What seemed oddest to me about the bitcoin lectures was that no one asked what a 51% attack on the block chain of Realitycoin would look like. It's all terrifying to me.

>>9599037
https://www.anonfiles.cc/file/8f7e99f68952c2168b84a4fd268658c6
It wouldn't let me upload epubs so I had to zip them.

>>9600648
>What seemed oddest to me about the bitcoin lectures was that no one asked what a 51% attack on the block chain of Realitycoin would look like
You don't even have to accomplish a 51% attack, what you can inject into a blockchain by design is terrifying enough.

>>9600648
>>9600671
Can you guys elaborate? Only interesting posts so far ITT.

>>9600677
Basically in his Bitcoin lectures he tries to theorize and possible system in which a self-aware Lovecraftian god of Capitalism would accommodate humanity to engage in the decision process, the system he describes would basically be moldbug's Urbit (he uses the example of a turing machine) but using Ethereum instead of address-space PKI.

>>9600677
this

>>9600758
>a self-aware Lovecraftian god of Capitalism would accommodate humanity to engage in the decision process
Is that not Rokos Basilisk in yet another disguise - acausal blackmail returns

>>9600758
Explain to me what is a 51% attack on bitcoin.

>>9600780
No, LessWrong didn't invent Pascal's Wager and Land has had his own equivalent of "Roko's Basilisk" (he called his Basilisk "Undead Amphetamine God") long before Yudkowsky even started his cult.

>>9600817
A blockchain requires a constant grinding of computational mathematics to continue moving, this computational power is provided by a distributed network of volunteers, blockchains work by every link in the chain going "yep, that looks right", now imagine if somebody could replace enough of those chains that the other chains couldn't contact each other and realize something is wrong, they would have complete power of the blockchain, depending on the complexity of the blockchain it can be as simple as denying every transaction or as damaging as having complete control to manipulate the blockchain at will.

Can you imagine what it would be like to have Nick Land as your dad? Do you think he's a normie in everyday dadlife who drives his kids to school and buys them birthday presents?

>>9600856
Yeah, I'm looking it up now. This is pretty interesting stuff. Are there other potential problems with blockchain? Is the 51% attack the biggest potential problem?

>>9600865
>Are there other potential problems with blockchain
Scalability so fucking much, right now public blockchains use financial intensives to continue rewarding people who perform the calculations required to keep everything grinding, this is completely unsustainable.

>Is the 51% attack the biggest potential problem?
It depends on the level of complexity, for simple blockchains yes, for complex blockchains like Ethereum which are turing complete allow people to run code remotely on nodes any vulnerability can have apocalyptical results (already happened).

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>>9597528
How can you be so uninformed?

>>9600917
thank you very much, my man

>Spinoza's belief that animals are to be used as a mere means for the satisfaction of humans
>Schopenhauer believed all individual animals, including humans, are essentially the same
Theory: Nick Land holds theses both to be true.

>>9600860
Now I have this fucked up image in my head of him reading me bedtime story.

>>9601106
i'm trying to imagine the children's book he would write now

>The Thirst for Bedtime

>>9601125
>The Apotheosis of Unconsciousness

>>9601125
"And then, the black, crawling, necrosian chaos - Bedtime incarnate - consumed the little bunny, and she fell asleep, visions of Cthulhu dancing and whispering in her dreams"

>>9601125
Cthelll is the terrestrial inner nightmare, nocturnal ocean, [P]lutonic science slides continuously into schizophrenic delirium. Fast forward seismology and you hear the earth scream.

>>9601106
"Can you sing me a song dead?"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XxScTbIUvoA

>>9601212
dad*

This thread is getting way too reddit way too fast.

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It's laughable how his "complex" teleological systems could easily be solved by a practical approach using linear algebra tools. He can't fathom basic concepts like the molding of concepts by change of rules, sets and times by matrice-like denominations of tought.
Read Gullinari, brainlets.

>>9601236
>ramiel unlocking SSJ 3.jpg

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>>9601227
Haven't you heard? Decrying a series of comments for conforming too narrowly to the reddit formula IS what reddit does now.

So bud, your comment is reddit-tier.

>>9601841
How would you know unless you browse reddit? I didn't know that because I don't go on reddit.

>>9600665
thank you anon <3


is it The Dark Enlightment a good point where start?

fuck this guy seems interesnting but probably just a well-read right-wing idiot
i don't want to read a right-wing u.u

>>9602449
He's a Marxist that went so deep he came out the other side.

>>9600452
Is that the "whisperings of the fungus people from alpha centari" twitter screencap?

>>9601236
Who the fuck is Gullinari

He posted a new essay today: http://jacobitemag.com/2017/06/06/atomization/

Really good stuff.

>When considered as rigid designations, Atomization, Protestantism, Capitalism, and Modernity name exactly the same thing.

>While any particular variant of implicit or explicit Protestantism has its distinctive theological (or atheological) features, just as any stage of capitalistic industrialization has its concrete characteristics, these serve as distractions more than as hand-holds in the big picture. The only truly big picture is splitting. The Reformation was not only a break, but still more importantly a normalization of breaking, an initially informal, but increasingly rigorized, protocol for social disintegration. The ultimate solution it offered in regard to all social questions was not argumentation, but exit. Chronic fission was installed as the core of historical process. Fundamentally, that is what atomization means.

>>9602986
>The ultimate solution it offered in regard to all social questions was not argumentation, but exit.
Reminds me of why Catholic countries continue to be more socially conservative in the current year: clergymen have this idea of discussing shit, as opposed to "agreeing to disagree" and breaking down in separate churches like adolescents.

>>9602999
But separation is the natural, healthy solution. Why would you stay together if you can't get along with others? Same for divortions.

Land is pro atomization and so am I.

>>9599732
nice try

>>9603178
remove your head from your shoulders

>>9603215
why that reaction?

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What about the CCRU writtings? There is some archive about them when Sandie Plant was in the group?

Or at least just some opinion about them, if anyone has one.

>>9603226
it was an autosomatic response

>>9600006
YES. Bratton is great. He's less esoteric than Land, but still very incisive. Coming from a design background myself its especially interesting. I've got a copy of The Stack, and am reading my way through the new normal. He's also writing a book about AI and design which should be good.

This is a decent lecture of his.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4TIUVeOO5tk

I'd also recommend checking out his essay Iphone city. Its slightly older, (2009) but makes some good points about software reorganizes cities.

Also that TED talk is really something. I had long disliked TED but couldn't really put a finger on what it was. He tears them down so well.

>>9600445
Jacobite is the opposite of Jacobin. Land is writing for the former, not the latter.

>>9603226
Your cells want ought to be atomised away from the body-collective.
>Land is pro atomization and so am I.
No, you ain't.

>>9603178
>Why would you stay together if you can't get along with others?
How can you know in advance that you will never be able to adapt to the other guy, or make the other guy adapt to you, or both adapt somehow?

Why would you give up even before trying?

>Land is pro atomization and so am I.
I don't see states or multinational willingly becoming smaller. And why am I reminded of the libertarian pipe dream of the state downsizing into minarchy within the limits of the non-aggression principle? No, the damn thing is not relinquishing all that power without a fight.

>>9599870
I work at a college library with a massive number of religious texts and I walk by Chardin's works almost every time I go to work. I haven't taken them down to read them but I probably ought to, since my only impression of him is one I got from Dan Simmons books.

Speaking of which: is Alastair Reynolds the Nick Land of sci-fi?

>>9603335
>Why would you give up even before trying?
Why would trying be worthwhile?
Here's an experiment you can do: stay on a board that you love when it becomes infested with /pol/fags or some group you despise. Try to get along with them. Watch as you start to love things you once hated because you want to fit in with a new crowd and the things you once loved turn into monstrosities because someone told you a scary story about boojums and everyone in the room believed it. Eventually, you'll wonder if it was worth trying. Eventually, you'll realize that it wasn't, and wonder why you tried.
If you don't do this, then you have no commitment to the initial community; you were not bound to it in a meaningful sense; the community no longer exists in its old form, but you clung on to the hope that the new form would somehow be the same. It wasn't, it can't be, because the old crowd liked Ron Paul and the new crowd likes Trump, or because the old crowd liked Gundam and Cowboy Bebop but the new crowd only likes Naruto and Yugioh, or because the old crowd liked Foundation and Dune and the Culture but the new crowd just wants to talk about the need for queer SF writers and Dr. Who.

>>9603371
>is Alastair Reynolds the Nick Land of sci-fi?

Obviously Peter Watts is the Nick Land of sci-fi.

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>>9603371
I'm that anon. I think I've become subtly breadpilled recently, in part because I'm reading about Thomist/scholastic metaphysics and it's making me feel refreshingly stupid and partly because my Marxist sensibilities are starting to feel rather stale and dead. If everything is capital than nothing is. And still we think. Also because I think I've absorbed some new feeling for Catholicism from /lit/.

Pic related may seem corny to you. Maybe because it's corny. Or because of the typo in it. I guess it's because there's no *urgency* in Chardin's thought. Things are happening. Progress and intelligence are good. Smart is better than dumb. Maybe I'm just tired of the ingrained suspicion that seems to come built into continental philosophy, or I'm just really averse to what passes for social progress when it's really just memetics.

Haven't read any Alastair Reynolds so I can't really comment there.

>>9602999
Unfortunately the Catholic Church isn't holding out well, the only part of it which seems virile is the SSPX.

>>9597528
he took the chav pill, only Anglos understand its true esoteric depth

>>9597567
is he a rice mixer?

>>9598918
>"no"
""yes""

>>9603378
>Why would trying be worthwhile?
Because I can change and so can them. Every book I read changes me in some way.
>Try to get along with them
Nobody wants to look at which particular events made them change into what they are. Essentialists think they behaved like this since they were zygotes, but they didn't.
>you start to love things you once hated because you want to fit in with a new crowd
Asking questions is not fitting in, go ask Socrates.
>Eventually, you'll realize that it wasn't
How do you know in advance whether a person is incapable of change? How do you know a fad is not the flavor of the month historical contingency?
>It wasn't, it can't be, because the old crowd liked
And yet here on /lit/ we continue to have conversations about Homer and Plato. Looks like you could use some learning of our ways, too.

>>9603418
Catholic literature can get pretty fucking weird, like monks spontaneously independently developing a system of prayer that's borderline identical to proto-Buddhism, or Rolle establishing a cult after buggering a bunch of nuns to achieve religious ecstasy.

>>9603237
They didn't produce anything of value until Land got in a charge, Plant is imaginatively bankrupt and produces extremely basic sociology tracts.

>>9603737
okay okay so what's your opinion on CCRU after 1997? Do you know if the keep with cyberfeminism? What about rave culture?

I am interested in feminism and raves that's why I was asking about Plant influence, she has a book about drugs.

>>9603767
Unfortunately we'll never know how prolific CCRU were during their Landian years, various universities have prevented publishing of their work, including the infamous Necrophysics.

Their cyberfeminism is layered behind obscurantism; goddess worship, womb symbolism and lesbianism.

>>9603649
>monks spontaneously independently developing a system of prayer that's borderline identical to proto-Buddhism

can you elaborate on this

>>9603859
Can't they publish their stuff on the internet?

>>9602578
Yes.

>>9603284
I've listened a bunch of his lectures awhile ago. I should probably get The Stack and really study it.

>>9603871
http://www.ccru.net/archive.htm

>>9603593
No

>>9603642
But why would knowing that you and they are capable of change lead you to think that causing some vague change or participating in it would be worthwhile, or more worthwhile than undergoing changes that aren't connected to those being undergone by the 'they' in question? You haven't answered my question. 'I can do X' isn't a good reason to do X, it's a condition for the being-done of X.

>>9602986
Land's capitalism/Protestantism connections are some of his most interesting stuff imho. Defection as the default mode of bourgeois/liberal/modern thought.

Wonder if Land ever saw this sketch.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qR_ZMAM9t2I

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Friendly reminder to all ITT that a Land-Peterson trust fall is actually a philosophical possibility.

>The courage, decency, and sanity of Jordan Peterson is one of the great discoveries of 2016. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=04wyGK6k6HE …
(Long, but great.)

https://twitter.com/outsideness/status/804359811840102400

>>9604226
What is a trust fall? Are you saying you think they could do something together? I think Peterson could benefit from Land's HBD orientation.

So I have a copy of Fanged Noumena, Thirst for Annihilation, CCRU Collected Writings for kindle, and still require more...


Is the journal Collapse worth reading? It's by Urbanomic

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>>9604249
See pic related. It's the kind of shit they do at retreats and workshops and so on, a kind of psychological exercise. I just mean to say that there's an unusual/interesting correspondence there.

I brought it up because the fact that Land praises Peterson or the kind of latent fixation Land has with religion echoes some of what Peterson says. I don't want to turn this into a Peterson spam thread or anything, just that I read that article >>9602986 linked on atomization and it reminds me of the stuff that Peterson says about the dragon of chaos and so on. They're both talking about similar things, one as a philosopher and one as a psychologist/guru/cult-leader/Truth Warrior/&c.

>I think Peterson could benefit from Land's HBD orientation.
Explain?

>>9604226
wow nice

two anglo manchildren coming together to espouse views founded on weak modernist philosophy

>>9604273
>Explain?
Peterson seems ignorant of HBD in an absolute sense, not just straying from talking about it for reasons of covering his ass. Nick Land could serve as a good messenger of these facts.

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>>9604278
>Peterson
>modernist

>Land
>modernist

>>9604304
Eh, I don't know how well Land knows the genetics stuff. Razib Khan or gwern are probably the best sources for that kind of info.

>>9604313
A Jungian and a Liberal.

Maybe you haven't even read Peterson and Land?

>>9604329
Is this an elaborate bait or are you legitimately 14?

>>9604315
He knows it exists, which is better than most. I'd say he knows his genetics better than most Alt Righters even since he talks about things like inbreeding and the hajnal line and such, things which are more obscure that he likely draws on from hbd chick.

>>9604339
He is right in a sense since Peterson's main influences are from late 1800s-mid 1900s and Land's thought is mostly 18th-19th century type thinking with postmodernism and neoreaction sprinkled in

>>9604304
I'd be interested to hear him talk about that too, although that is a road of bones.

http://tracinskiletter.com/2016/10/02/a-libertarian-icons-descent-into-racist-pseudoscience/

>>9597528
He is more the Caraco of our times, more interested in exhausting the rhetorical possibilities of deleuze meeting with the abyssal metaphors of H.P. Lovecraft rather than have a real thought.

>>9604354
>trans/posthumanism and accelerationism
>18th-19th century type thinking
Also stop bringing up a fucking psychology professor in philosophy discussion. It's bad enough this board is flooded with polack teens.

>>9604358
The great thing about Peterson, like capaign-era Trump, is he is both too big to fail and every time he is attacked he increases in popularity. As long as he goes about it in his usual manner, this is something that would go over fine with his current fanbase.

>>9604354
I've been running a theory that Land is HEAVILY influenced by pre-Jung alchemic texts while everybody obviously knows that Peterson is influenced by Jungian alchemy.

>>9604372
You could maybe make this argument in the 90s but certainly not now.

>>9604329
I've read both.

Jungian depth psychology does not seem modernist to me in the way that Freudian psychology does, and less so in the ways and for the purposes that Peterson wields it. Jung belongs to modern psychology but when I think modernism I think of something other than archetypes and alchemical formulae.

Land is not a liberal unless you mean liberal in the Hoppe/Austrian School sense of the word. In which case, sure. But even then his thought is so divorced from Mises or whoever as to be unrecognizable.

>>9604388
Land has some esoteric influences that he isn't exactly shy about revealing. I know he's read the Kabbalah and I think Crowley. Maybe ask him if you want anything more specific.

>>9604402
>Jung belongs to modern psychology but when I think modernism I think of something other than archetypes and alchemical formulae.

That's too bad, because his entire stance, the point from which he starts and then goes towards archetypes is wholly modernist.

> Land is not a liberal unless you mean liberal...

I mean it in the original sense. Not the 21st century "Liberals and Conservatives are different!" delusional sense.

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>>9604385
Yessir. Peterson is to me pure Taleb-school antifragility, and at war with the ultimate fragilistas. It's diabolically clever that he fights with "postmodernists" who are a source of chaos and yet his own thing is to only get more people on his Patreon in the process.

>>9604278
>Says the post-modern sophist

>>9604429
For now, but some dumb ass /pol/tards will embarass him so hard that he'll get his tenure revoked and make free speech a complete laughing stock in Canada.

I hope not but...

>>9604429
>It's diabolically clever that he fights with "postmodernists" who are a source of chaos
Peterson's whole thing is balancing your life with both chaos and order is a daoist manner. It seems consciously or subconsciously he is very good at the practical application of this.

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>>9604429
>art of manliness

>>9604406
He cited Kenneth Grant in one of his papers.

>>9604393
Dunno, I tend to find neo-reactionaries even more dumb than the old land. That's a movement that really has no basis in anything but what kant called "rhapsodies".

>>9604457
Not OP but they've unironically published a couple of semi-decent posts on their blog before, the "Christianity’s Manhood Problem: An Introduction" post was interesting.

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Do you think Nick Land posts on /lit/?

>>9604461
That seems consistent with Crowley since he's a Thelemite.

>>9604429
I love this manliness shit because it seems that theiir whole self image can be destroyed by:

1) Random women laughing at them
2) a stranger calling them feminize

>>9604464
I'm rusty with my Kant so that seems way too specific a complaint for me to counter.

>>9604468
>less men actively practice and participate in Christian rituals
>hurr Christianity is a feminine religion
This site is one giant joke.

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>>9604478
No.

>>9604502
But that isn't what they say at all.

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>>9604412
>Not the 21st century "Liberals and Conservatives are different!" delusional sense.
Okay, I was under the impression that you were.

>>9604451
Me too. I think Peterson has already distanced himself from the alt-right tho. He thinks its incomplete.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fInko6WL9No

>>9604452
I can see that.

>>9604457
Better?

>>9604515
That's literally the whole premise of the article series.

>>9597538

He does, his wife is a commie.

Which is why there is a leftypol theory that Nick Land is just an accelerationist.

>>9604520
The premise is that the extensive focus on mariology, bridal mysticism and impotent preachers has made Christianity hostile to masculinity.

>>9604532
1) Talking as if masculinity really exists, and is not fluidly defined in each context. You guys need some nominalism.

2) Not clear what the value of "masculinity" as a concept is except feeding the ego of those who subscribe to it. Why should we care?

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>>9604532
Christianity's doing just fine guys, right?

R-right?

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>>9604542
>nominalism

>>9604526
>his wife is a commie
Source? My theory is she's a "commie" in the same way Land is a "commie."
>Which is why there is a leftypol theory that Nick Land is just an accelerationist.
There is a million reasons just off the top of my head why this is really dumb but >leftypol

>>9604562
I know it's hard to come to terms to the fact that most political discourse on the right today is based on reification of words without a clear reference.

Right-wing philosophy is just a set of soundbites thrown together to rile up its followers, not different the disconnected chatter of coaches and sports professionals for their fans.

>>9604550
Conservative Christianity actually is doing fine though, It's only liberal and progressive Church are dying.

One thing Land didn't address is how some aspects of Protestantism are decelerationist. And I would say those aspects are gaining power. It seems like capitalism and feminism are deeply intertwined...the former births the latter, only for the latter to try to end the former. I have no idea where I'm going with this...

>>9604578
Pope Francis is the most popular church leader in the world.

>>9604590
Feminism is only possible because of the burning of fossil fuels? Feminism tacitly condones global warming?

>>9604590
Feminism and modernity are intertwined because because in the abstraction of the law in modern societies the citizen as such is universal.

On a deeper level in modernity after Hume a dichotomy like masculine/feminine is meaningless and even more so after nietzsche.

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>>9604578
I agree. Thomism seems to be more on the rise these days too. Makes sense given how fucking depressing continental philosophy has become. I used to be heavily into that stuff but I find traditional Christianity only gets more and more interesting now.

>>9604590
>One thing Land didn't address is how some aspects of Protestantism are decelerationi
You should definitely read more into Land, he definitely talks about this phenomenon, it's even one of his central ideas I'd say.

>>9604550
scandinavians were a mistake

>>9604605
Got a link?

>>9604591
That's great, but it isn't bringing in converts, under Francis the Church has decline has accelerated dramatically.

Meanwhile SSPX growth has exploded, In France they might literally replace mainline Catholicism at the rate them keep ordaining priests.

>>9604600
Seems kinda silly to me. How will thomism respond to Hume's and Descartes criticism except through a closing of the mind?

It seems to me that here we are exchanging inquisitiveness and rationality for the safety of scholastics. Hardly the daring move conservatives seem to think that it is...

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Going to spam this book here too for any anons interested in more exegesis on modernity and atomization.

>>9598173

>>9604610
France is a country overwhelmingly atheist and pretty much irrelevant. The overwhelming base is now in South America and Africa.

Also remember that they are still Catholic since the excommunication was revoked in 2009 and many of them have the duty of absolute obedience to the pope.

>>9604610
>In France they might literally replace mainline Catholicism at the rate them keep ordaining priests.

Really? I'm glad. I can't imagine them getting any traction in north america.

>>9604612
I'm that anon and this is a good post. I don't really have an answer for you except to say that trying to follow Nick Land's or Reza Negarestani's thought has occulted in me precisely that desire to close my own mind.

Now I can't advocate for this in a political sense, of course. And I don't even think I can defend it intellectually. Much more a question of personal psychology and the disquieting sense that if there really is no end to the hermeneutics of suspicion then beyond a certain horizon the safety of scholasticism starts to look pretty appealing.

tl;dr touché

>>9604612
>How will thomism respond to Hume's and Descartes criticism except through a closing of the mind?

Read Anscombe and Macintyre. They dealt with this explicitly and well. Hume and Descartes are much, much less of a problem for Thomism than Heidegger.

>>9604609
I'm not sure there's one essay that talks about this directly, it's more a theme or assumption that underlies his entire work. Being that the gains created by capitalism are used by politics to undermine capitalism, this is the cannibalism of modernity. The goal of accelerationism is to remove these inhibitory constraints and let capitalism run free. His first Jacobin article may help http://jacobitemag.com/2017/05/25/a-quick-and-dirty-introduction-to-accelerationism/ as well his neorection canon Dark Enlightenment essay http://www.thedarkenlightenment.com/the-dark-enlightenment-by-nick-land/

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>>9604656
>Hume and Descartes are much, much less of a problem for Thomism than Heidegger.

Explain, gentle-anon

also good thread gents

>>9604645
My solution to the hermeneutics of suspect and my own malaise was to leave everything I had, my family, the married girl I was seeing, and move oversees and start from nothing.

I laughed, I partied, I loved, I indulged in every pleasure and chased every hour of the night until dawn. I lived with no concern of my future and no anxiety, sleeping from couch to couch, doing odd jobs, taking every opportunity I could. And all the while I wrote poetry and music celebrating to myself everything that I loved in this life, and any moment that made my heart cry.

>>9604656
I read them, but I think that his arguments are very weak.

His arguments against Nietzsche in a return to teleological view of the man doesn't consider that it gives up the autonomy of man.

A teleology can exist only if there is no autonomy of man (that is his ability to set his standards and decide what he values). But you can deny this autonomy only by bringing back the ontological chain, that is saying that the world is already axiologically ordered.

That is there must be values in the world. But of course there is no such thing. Value doesn't exist in the world, and that's because any set of values that is given (any "should") can be negated by the will (Hegel).

And this is just from the moral point of view: onthologically I haven't heard anybody managing to save causality from hume's criticism. And with no causes no aristotelianism.

>>9604676
Thomism is part of Heidegger's sweeping critique of western metaphysics, and also Heidegger completely denies the possibility of an after-life.

When Heidegger was young he wanted to be a Catholic priest but then he abandoned Catholicism and went full atheistic Lutheran. There's some debate that maybe Heidegger at the end of his life reconciled with Catholicism, because he made contact with a Catholic priest (guy named Welte, I think) and was given a Catholic burial. Did he see an error in his philosophy? I don't know and I can't read German so I don't know what's in the letters.

As far as I know, Catholic/Thomist responses to Heidegger have come from Hans urs von Balthasar, a Polish theologian that I can't remember off the top of my head, some Milbank and maybe Feser but I'm not too sure.

>>9604722
stupid

>>9604722
macintyre was not talking about the world as such (as a universal) but the greek (and later, medieval) world. there are seemingly no values for us because we are children of modernity, as opposed to members of a community that manifested itself for aristotle as the polis. and no it isn't up to the individual to decide his values, it is up to the community.

an ancient greek would probably consider "autonomy" to consist of not having their polis btfo by another polis and ending up as slaves. then we can ask "what values do we need to have so that we don't end up like this?" and thus preserve our autonomy. it's "autonomy of men", not autonomy of the singular man. it's a rejection of the cartesian subject. the attribution to metaphysics of what happens to be a historical contingency is his basic argument.

>>9604839
But that is not because we don't have a community, but that we have multiple communities that exist inside the state.

The greek state was totalitarian in that didn't accept communities that weren't coincident with the polis in itself.

But inside our state we have many competing communities. And modernity is the understanding this.

Now let's say the thomist tells me a should with which I don't agree with: chastity for example.
I may say, thank to my autonomy, "no" I don't agree that a man should be chaste. And I form another community with fellow people that enjoy it.

Now there are two possibilities:

1) The two communities live peacefully one next to the other: modern pluralism is achieved.

2) One of the two communities denies the other the right to exist: a struggle begins between the two where the strongest one will prevail as right. Nietzsche was right.

In either cases St. Thomas was wrong.

>>9604685
Good post anon, thanks for this.

>>9604729
Another good post! Thank ye kindly sir.

Because I was never a Catholic back when and am only discovering this stuff now after a long journey in continental land it always seems refreshing and strange to me to think that theology is still a thing after all this Marxism/Freudianism.

Feser and MacIntyre get a lot of references on /lit/ and Milbank seems like a guy worth reading, I'll check those out, thanks.

>>9603859
>Necrophysics

My interest is piqued. Can you elaborate?

>>9599596
>>9599612
Sounds Evola as fuck if you ask me

>>9604877
the modern state may have competing, cooperative, and often overlapping communities, but there are some communities that persist in the modern state that are immanent. your family and your heritage are communities you belong to that you do not choose. you may repudiate them but barring exceptions (roman adult adoption for one) you can't replace them with another.

i don't see how the struggle between communities is nietzschean. don't you mean darwinist? and that's only if you conceive of it in a war of all against all kind of way, treating a community as a black box. but what's inside the box is important, because it is within that that the virtues flourish. and it's intimately entangled with survival, but that doesn't make it crudely darwinist. and thomism would be another of those sets of values that allows a community to flourish.

>>9604917
Hmm, maybe. If you could expand on that I would appreciate it since I used to love reading Evola and have since become less interested since reading NRx. Funnily enough, Land hates Evolan ideas, but I doubt he's read him extensively.

>>9604877
>And I form another community with fellow people that enjoy it.

because that would happen and would be sustainable...

>>9604928
Well you were arguing if he was or wasnt traditionalist, then started speaking about

>the idea is precisely accelerating away both from Enlightenment AND the controlled opposition of the conservative Right (NRx considers the modern Right to be like a Jester, playing the role of making themselves appear as fools in comparison to democracy).
Which is literally Evola's position for the diferentiated individuals

And then,

>So sort of like planetary Taoist capitalism?
>harmonize yourself with the great Way?
Which is the whole transcendence focus of traditionalists


>Moldbug seems to focus more on Great Man theory,
Evola was obsessed with the superman, he called himself a "super fascist" on a trial when he was asked if he was a fascist, meaning he was the sort of man fascists coul only dream of being

>>9604917
>sounds Evola as fuck

Explain Evola to me. I've read some of his stuff but I'm interpreting your statement to mean something like a cross between Nietzsche and sort of anarchism, an ambivalence towards movements and so on - something like that?

Pardon the comparison, but sort of like a Chogyam Trungpa with reactionary sensibilities instead of Buddhist ones. Ride the tiger/no ground either. Like that?

>>9604926
I think your point about communities that persist is pretty irrelevant.

I'll make you an example: my father thought that becoming a philosopher was despicable, that a man should be practical.

I disagreed with it and instead thought that dedication to truth is something I intrinsically wished.

Who was right among us? No one, because there there is no teleology of man, no way it should be. I just disagreed on how I wanted my life to be and I followed my path forming a new community with other philosophers.

Also Nieztsche is Darwinian in his affirmation of values. Values are right not because they are true or good, but because they survive/persists/affirm themselves.

>>9604985
>like a cross between Nietzsche and sort of anarchism
Strangely besides Marx he was the only philosopher I can tink of who was directly influenced by Stirner, something /lit/ should appreciate.

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>>9604985
nvm, I think I get it now.

>The formula referred to in context of a change of polarity of living, particular intensities living as a means toward a more-than-living, evidently finds its supreme application this path. In particular, here one can see a connection with the special orientations considered this chapter: measuring oneself in a contemplation death, living every day in the present as it were the last, and the quasi-magnetic orientation to be induced in one's own being, which may not manifest this existence with the complete rupture the ontological level proper to "initiation," but will not fail to emerge at the right moment, order to carry one beyond.

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>>9605008
Yeah, that's what I was thinking too, Nietzsche/Stirner. The comparisons to Laozi make more sense understood in that way.

Interesting guy.

>>9598548
>As the crisis lurches into the Frog Twitter presidency
Jesus

>>9604985
yes, but is a weird anarchism, basically he calls himself as an aristocratic of the soul, so he sees himself outside of their control, is not that he doesn't want one, is that he thinks all the currently existing ones are beneath him in terms of hierarchy, him being a spiritual aristocrat and them pleb-tier rulers of matter

>>9604990
let's compare your case by transposing it to someone living in the middle ages. in that context, a child who would have had a relation to his father in terms of apprenticeship wishes instead to pursue a scholastic life. to the extent that he pursues his own will, he would be repudiating something. what is it? probably the bonds of obligation between master and student. the master has an obligation to tutor the student, while the student has the obligation to serve his master, until he gets to the point that he surpasses him. that is the telos of the apprenticeship system. there doesn't seem to be the same gravity in your situation. you just had like, different opinions man.

to the extent that you sense no telos, macintyre would reply that it's a matter of historical contingency rather than something universally true. teleology existed for the master and student. and he thinks we have lost something by losing sight of that.

nietzsche cannot be reduced to darwinism because if the aristocratic value system didn't survive, does that mean they were "wrong"? that's a very un-nietzschean conclusion.

>>9605022
it's almost like evola lived his whole life trying to erase the fact that he ever made those paintings.

>>9605051
He didn't ever repudiate them.

>>9605069
accepted it and moved on yeah

i selectively choose to ignore them in memory of the man because they were objectively shit

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>>9604429
i think it is funny how taleb misses the obvious thing about fragility.
lets say you are antifragile and you survive a lot of volatility and shock and thrive from it.
maybe someone who doesnt survive it at all and has to start from scratch every time is improving a lot more as he iterates through different systems.
so being antifragile can lead to paralysis.
e.g. let's say capitalism is an antifragile system. the more it thrives from disorder and volatility and so on the more it spreads and mutates and survives.
however maybe by doing so it destroys life on this planet. or at least makes part of the planet uninhabitable and part of its pupulation's problems unreconcilable.
just my 2 cents

>>9605046
But then what is the difference between MacIntyre and any other cultural relativist or historicist?

Also he opens the flank to a materialist/marxist critic:

In how he describes teleology doesn't seem the essential part in describing how and why certain relationships (or ways of living) exist but rather the ideological sheen that gets put on top.

A marxist would rather point out that what that means is not that there is a teleology, but that our ability to critic ideology is proportional to our independence from certain structures for our sustenance. That is: we are interested in perpetrating the arguments of certain ways of living as superior, not because that is true, but because it is convenient to us.

This is again a very nihilistic conclusion.


On Nietzsche: that's a problem he has and in fact he has to come up with a series of figures that are strong (the great priest, christ, socrates) but ugly. They are strong figures but profoundly wounded and their resentment they want to end all of life.

That's why his philosophy is a defense to the aristocratic pose, because that's the only one capable of making life bearable, while the last man will only lead to the death of humanity.

>>9605137
because aristotelianism and teleology as a given is more coherent than our current use of moral language which presumes the lack of teleology but still wants to retain moral judgement. and this incoherence manifests itself in the widespread disagreement between moral theories that developed afterwards. he goes at it at length in after virtue where his historical treatment of the development of moral philosophy takes up the first half.

it's interesting that you treat "independence" as some sort of good, when being exiled is next to death for the greeks. are you really independent when you claim you're independent, or are you just another atomized artifice of the superstructure? by reasoning from the historically contingent premises that you have adopted that make the modern state possible, aren't you perpetuating the modern state?

the medium nietzsche converses in is just as important as his message. it's important that zarathustra is a prophet, because the ubermensch is yet to come. the ubermensch needs a value system to thrive, and his solution is for the ubermensch/en to create this value system himself. it shouldn't be interpreted as a mere "i value this so i shall do this" that reduces itself to egoism, but values that have to be manifested in the world.

>>9605136
>what doesn't kill you makes you stronger
>get killed
>oh shit
what did you mean by this

>>9597528
no, remember that Nietzsche had some original thoughts

>>9605269
I don't know, he probably plagiarized those thoughts from Stirner.

>>9599906
Benjamin Britten?

>>9605252
I think that he ultimately fails because teleology is a truth statement that as such can't be verified in the world. He just ends up being a cultural relativist, he can never claim that one point of view is better then another because moral nihilism is the only true position. There are no moral facts so no moral proposition is true.

As for the rest it's not independence but autonomy. The ability to decide what values to accept and which to reject made me much more happy, wealthy, and free than I would have been if I were to be beholden by my paternal circumstances. It seems a nightmare to me to be limited by the values of narrow-minded common folk.

>>9602986
this is brilliant

Where do I start with him and the Dark Enlightenment in general? Fanged Noumena?

>>9605578
Meltdown & Machinic Desire

>>9605136
He addresses that in Antifragility, anon. Things are only Antifragile up to a point both in the extent of how much they can grow and in how much punishment they can take at a time.

A muscle can only get so strong and it can only take so much damage from a workout before it breaks (Rhabdomyolysis). In your case, Capitalism can only handle disorder up to a certain point (A complete and utter breakdown of the social system leading to total depraved anarchy) and can only grow to a certain point (Where it becomes so efficient that it consumes the whole planet and kills itself). This is why he explicitly says that nothing is 100% Antifragile in all walks of life unless it's a meme.

This is more of a critique of your example, but "Capitalism vs Nature" is a false dichotomy, you just have to monetize nature. See: Big Game preserves.

>>9605252
>our current use of moral language which presumes the lack of teleology but still wants to retain moral judgement

unironically intelligent post anon, this (You) js yours

>>9605578
http://www.thedarkenlightenment.com/the-dark-enlightenment-by-nick-land/

>>9603994
woah now I don't know what to make of him

>>9598991
so is he obscure or not?

>>9605545
he accepts the premises of the moral emotivist, but denies their conclusions. it only leads to nihilism if we deny teleology. he accepts that the emotivist gives an accurate description of the current state of moral discourse, but in a relative way. emotivism is true relative to us. but teleology is not relative.

if a car or computer fails, can we not say that it fails in its purpose? "but we attribute purpose to them" is the incorrect answer, because they were designed for an end beforehand. their contingent purpose is determined by whether a human will choose to check their email or watch youtube on them but their ultimate purpose is non-negotiable. it has to work. human beings are likewise imbued with purpose, even if they can have purpose attributed to them post hoc like the setting of personal goals. you are referring to contingent purposes (will i pursue philosophy? where will i work?) not ultimate purpose (how does one lead the good life?) and aristotle was trying to work out a description of "purpose" that does not consist merely of survival, though it is a necessary precondition for it.

i don't deny that you may be better off by your decisions, but your autonomy (and the "rights" you enjoy) are conditional upon the state. insofar as they are not "inalienable" it is imprudent to insist on being an advocate for autonomy as if it exists in a vacuum, or more dangerously as an ideal. you're only "free" insofar as it's easier to govern you that way. until it isn't.

>>9605812
No, Land isn't obscure, most philosophers never get a mention outside of their department let alone get entire articles dedicated to them in popular fashion magazines.

>>9605774
Did you think he married an Asian and now that you realized he didn't your opinion of him has changed?

>>9605812

He's hardly obscure. CCRU notwithstanding, he is credited as one of the leads into speculative realism, which is THE contemporary academia along with the other post-Kantian philosophies.

He's also founded two e-presses so far, and his wife (if they're still even together) Anna Greenspan is huge in Shanghai's sinofuturistic circles (which does include people with actual influence over there), so he also had a lot of momentum over there.

Also, his Dark Enlightenment stuff, along with Moldbug's, gives a raging accelerated boner to folks like Peter Thiel and Steve Bannon (even if neither can grasp all of it). Since he's taken interest into bitcoins more so than before, I reckon he'll be even less obscure soon enough. It could also be said anyway, that it is irrelevant whether or not people are reading him: they're still accelerating towards doom.

>>9605945
marrying outside your thede is a major heuristic indicator for a lot of things

>>9605957
>thede
lol

Anyway, he married a jew? I suppose that's going to trigger you.

Oops! Sorry I forgot the triple parentheses!

>>9605973
Calm down /leftypol/, don't get baited so easily.

>>9600939
thise

>>9603310
Lol people are going to get them mixed up constantly now it's awesome

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>>9604139
Because the reasons I was given for not trying are almost as clinically retard as you are, lmfao

Switching from all-knowing metaphysics to skepsis like clockwork

Fucking retard lol

>>9605973
Jews are technically Asian

What is Land's view of Mystery and PUA guys, also when is he going to get with Taleb and Rippetoe and start an elite thot patrol?

>>9607314
Start a new thread, we reached bump limit.

>>9597528

Nietzsche writes clearly, Land is in the style of french deleuze whateverthefuck cyberpunk postmodalities. No he's not Nietzsche, I like his aesthetic tho.

Move
>>9605557