>You see, money doesn't exist in the 24th century

>>9593312
Moneyless empires (such as the Incas) have existed, so they can work. The problem in the modern age is that centrally planned economies can't anticipate needs the way a market system can, but by the 24th century, supercomputers may well obviate the need for markets and money by making central planning feasible.

Not that I particularly dislike capitalism. It's better than anything else, but surely something better will eventually take its place.

>>9593312
It does exist, but is completely irrelevant. They have a sycophantic society. Everyone has replicator rations, but because of vast energy resources those rations allow everyone to live as upper middle class Americans while doing essentially nothing. The people prefer home made stuff anyway so they buy stuff from their friends and neighbors who make it as a hobby when they can. It's bought using Federation credits which they use to replicate the stuff they can't conveniently pick up.....everyone has enough credits to buy what they need to easily live a comfy life (basic universal income?) But there are limits, no one dude has enough to replicate 50 Galaxy class starships for himself for example.

While you don't have to work, some people's dreams require higher education, work experience, you have to build up a resume of volunteer shit to appease others and achieve positions that are beyond a singular individual's resources or begin s career that will earn you the respect of others, which everyone seems to value now, having 'evolved' beyond greed and all that.

>>9593312
It would work with my perfect, yet unimplemented version of communism.

>could warp drives ever work
>could replicators ever work
>could aliens look like humans with cunts on their foreheads
>is op a faggot

>>9593312
star trek is still a capitalist society, it just has a "marketplace of ideas" going on without an explicit currency.

>>9593312

As I understand it, they have what amounts to a basic universal income, because resources are abundant, but there are obvious limits as to what any particular citizen can do. It's Brave New World without all the mind raping and with open social mobility I suppose.

>>9593321
I don't think that star trek has planned economies either

It just doesn't make sense to have money in the modern sense when there's enough resources for all humans to live insanely well. That said, it's not clear how something like housing/land (a limited resource even in the 24th century works. Who gets to live in San Francisco?

But, yeah. Even with a capitalist conception of the universe, we can see why money might not be a big part of life in the 24th century. If all material goods in your life (food, clothes, appliances, entertainment systems) cost cents to make, what could you possibly want loads of money for?

They use material goods, like rare metals, in trades in many parts of the series. Trade exists, perhaps a fiat currency is just unworkable in the economic conception of Star Trek?

>>9594564

I don't think most people in a post-scarcity world would particularly even care about "their place". Housing allocation is probably done by a superintelligence in such an efficient way where no one really even has reasons to complain. Also consider being born in that age you were probably taught no such thing as border/land being a part of you or your family, hence going back to the point of "no one cares about where they are".

Other limited resources (if they can be called so) would be social and political leverage, and I assume these would be the only things people would "fight" for. But fighting here is in a much weaker sense, because the only stakes are your 24th century facebook likes, you're not going to be impoverished or even ostracized by not having influence.

>>9593552
A shame it's not canon.

File: 9458260ClVoJz6WIAAmVg8.jpg (51KB, 640x681px) Image search: [Google]

51KB, 640x681px

>>9593312
Only in a world where there is no more need for exchange. Money exists as a way to make exchange/trade easier since barter fucking sucks (the person who has what you wants NEEDs to want what you have in order for you to trade. If both of you accept money of some sort, trade can happen no matter what you make/do.)

Also without money, I don't see how complex service sorts of jobs might exist. How many minutes of me teaching economics or haircuts can I trade for a loaf of bread? If I'm just paid to teach economics in money, then it doesn't matter.

A lot of artsy types hate money for some reason, but they seem to attach a weird negative mysticism as if somehow money is the exclusive object of greed. Where someone who wants to hoard a ton of money isn't greedy so much as miserly (since they usually refuse to spend it.) Hell, part of the entire problem with Ebenezer Scrooge was that he was just sitting on a ton of money and not spending it to the point where it was affecting his own personal health by not heating his house and only eating gruel.

If you have an issue with greed, you just have an issue with the general human condition of want. It's simply a fact that humans are never really satisfied with what they have forever, and it's not really a bad thing that we always want more and better. Imagine if we still thought that whale oil-lights and the telegraph was the absolute human pinnacle.

I don't view money with a lot of mysticism, it's just a medium of exchange, but if I were to view it with any, I would probably do it like pic related.

>>9594585
>done by a superintelligence in such an efficient way where no one really even has reasons to complain
this sounds handwavey / technocratic / fascistic

the handwavey part is super Trekky but the dictat by a computer saying YOU LIVE HERE is less Trekky. Trek gives very little power to their AIs in general.

I find it much more likely that Star Trek would have Swedish style housing lotteries. You need to wait on a list X years to get to live in, say, downtown Stockholm. (In real life and in Star Trek)

>no one cares about where they are
this is bullshit

There are objective reasons why San Fransisco's climate is better than Pittsburgh's climate. Granted, some people don't mind clouds and humidity and rain, but most people prefer a perfect Mediterranean climate of 60-70 degrees with mostly sunny days. Moreover, where you're born will have sentimental value, there will still be tribes of a sort in the 24th century. Even if the Humans/Federation "tribe" is stronger than Atlanta vs Dublin or whatever, there'd probably be some kind of affinity for regions of earth.

That said we can use these limitations that still exist in a "post scarcity" society to explain all the human colonists. If you can't live on a beautiful private island on earth, you can at least do it on a distant planet.
Anyway, as someone who has had enough money left to me by rich ancestors to never have to work, LET ME TELL YOU SOMETHING. Not working leads to despression, drug use, uselessness and misery. Finding work to do is central to survival for humans. Your brain is wired that way. If you're not able to feel like you contribute, your brain gets fucked up. I imagine 24th century schools would be centered around giving kids motivation to contribute to society.

>>9593312
If we reverted to a debt/money based economy where a few men controlled the capital while the rest accepted that they can only rent it, the system could definitely work.

We've had it before, we're heading back to it now.

>>9593589
Wow, an honest to goodness faggot. I was starting to wonder if these existed anymore

>>9593388
>Star trek where instead of currency society is powered by egotistical power hungry megalomaniacal boot licking ladder climbers

I'd read it