Just recently starting to see that some traditions of magic/sorcery

>>9588616
it's not what you think it is, but yes it is real

>>9588629

Don't tease me like that bro, what shit should I look into?

It's a pretty deep rabbit hole. Philosophy is very porous with theology and mysticism, and theology and mysticism are very porous with the occult. There are whole traditions, relatively mainstream, that you can indulge in if you want to be an /x/ guy and read about sp00ky demonic entities, esoteric rituals, and other hermetic secrets alongside your idealist metaphysics. From the theosophists around the turn of the century, to a thousand similar things. Many of these movements have extremely brilliant thinkers attached to them, and much of the stuff is plausibly deep.

Just as a forewarning, a lot of the people into this stuff tend to be burnouts and schizos who waste their lives on it. It's always got some more shit for you to delve into, always got something else to draw your curiosity. It's enough to waste decades on. It's basically a hobby for weirdos.

go to /omg/ on /x/

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>>9588616
He's a bit of a meme on here, but try Alan Moore's writing/interviews on the subject. The important thing is not to think of magic as necessarily "supernatural powers", like casting a fireball for 12 mana or whatever's usually shown in the media, but a way of manipulating symbols and ideas to change things about your mind (or other people's). Like, to a primitive people, the ability to preserve your thoughts after you're dead was basically magic, but we just call it "writing". To cast a spell is just to spell. Money has huge influence over people, but it's ultimately just a symbol.

http://glycon.livejournal.com/13888.html

Magic is real and i can prove it

>>9588689

>>9588644
>Just as a forewarning, a lot of the people into this stuff tend to be burnouts and schizos who waste their lives on it. It's always got some more shit for you to delve into, always got something else to draw your curiosity. It's enough to waste decades on. It's basically a hobby for weirdos.
Yeah, seems as if it may be an exaggeration but it's true. The occult can be pretty dangerous for unbalanced minds.

>>9588644

I feel like I shouldn't be but I am intrigued by this. I've always brushed magic off as Harry Potter/disney bullshit, but some stuff I'm hearing about will-based philosophy is interesting. What should I get into?

>>9588679

Well I do like Moore so I'l check this out for sure. Definitely sounds interesting.

>The important thing is not to think of magic as necessarily "supernatural powers", like casting a fireball for 12 mana or whatever's usually shown in the media

I'm definitely trying to steer clear of stuff that starts to veer into this territory, but I am interested in claims that magic is supposed to more closely resemble using your will to influence the world around you. Whether that's /x/ or just a metaphor for what the will can accomplish, either way I'm definitely interested.

>>9588689
:o

>>9588704
check out evola

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>>9588689
Now do it again but with trips

>>9588715

Just wiki'd him, Essays on Magical Idealism serves as the proper starting point, I assume?

>>9588731
or the hermetic tradition

also check out historian jm roberts history of secret societies. he describes a lot of the political/social climbing aspects of 'magic' organizations and is a good survey of shit to avoid

The problem with magic/sorcery is that it's esoteric. And people want to be part of anything such. It's a bit like wanting to be a secret agent AND telling everybody about it. Thus discussing it on public forums becomes moot.

As you delve deeper and deeper you will learn this-and-this but, you will also realize that it wasn't what you were expecting, never mind something you would learn on 4chan.

Recently I've been reading about Sufis. Yeah it's a meme (also) but there's a lot to it. A mode of life that includes - for example but not excludingly - disciplined 'dhikr' and asceticism *will* provide you with what might be called 'mystical'. But it won't make you a teleporting dervish who pisses honey like the stories might tell.

My recommendation would be picking a context that makes sense to you historically and geographically. Mysticism, or magic (which aren't synonymous but I'll use them as such here anyway) is always connected to your surroundings and to your past. You can't just search the globe on google and become an Indian wizard, to exaggerate a lot.

>>9588704
It sounds like you're just talking about psychological manipulation and hypnosis. You should honestly just read some books about influence and watch some The Real Hustle.
Unless I'm retarded and you're actually talking about telekinesis, then carry on.

>>95887490
what i get out of this post is basically "there's a more practical/pragmatic side to some of the esoteric stuff, but it's not going to essentially genie you to your ideal life" and "pick something culturally relevant, as it's easier to believe in something relevant to your life than it is to pick something you think is interesting in a foreign/alien way and running with it"

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This image seems legit. I've been through Wilson and some Hall myself.

>>9588749
>>9588763
well that's thoreauly embarrassing

>>9588716
watch this

>>9588777

>>9588778
whoa

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>>9588784
admitting that you can make mistakes and that that's ok - THAT is true magic.

dubs

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>>9588616
Magical arts generate incongruous circumstances, incredible situations rendering esoteric associations literally. see the surrealists

>>9588788
noice

clearly lots of interest in this topic. i could get into it a little bit - we should do a reading group

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>>9588800
are you proposing some sort of witch circle format?

are there any esoteric/occult/mystical writers who are into psychedelics and are not complete crackpots

Damn, thank you boys for the responses. Too many to respond to but I'm going to start tearing into this stuff for sure. I'll continue to monitor this thread as well. Thank you.

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>>9588616
Best intro in Kenneth Grant's The Magical Revival. He was an accomplished magician himself, and the book is written from his own unique system's perspective, but it gives a fair a detailed overview of the occult revival of the late 19th/early 20th century from Blavatsky, Fortune, and Spare to Crowley. He also has a good understanding of Tantric magic.

You have to be quite intelligent and educated to get the most out of the book, as well as the ability to leave logic at the door.

>>9588809
Depends what your threshold for "crackpot" is, really

yea read liber null and liber kaos. theres a bunch of good books on chaos magic and crowley magick. its fucking hard to explain it to people though, even after reading the books its still hard to explain to someone who hasnt experienced magic. i come from a very scientific household and i was totally against all this being real until i decided "fuck it ill try it". if you go into it with an open mind you can see some crazy shit go down. but if you go into with a mindset of "prove it", youll most likely miss the point.

the really weird shit is that there are so many people doing this stuff. among all walks of life. your neighbors could be occultists or someone you work with, people generally hide it tho cause its a total turn off. the first few raves i went to i was so surprised at how many people were openly talking about magic and doing it in plain sight.

>>9588831
Grant is considered a retard even by most thelemites. even people that believe lovecraft was co-prophet of the new aeon think grant is a retard. theres way better magic out there senpai

>>9588616

If you have to ask this question then you have low magical potential. If you approach magic through your received lens of rationalist thinking then you're already on the wrong track.

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>>9588616
/x/ has a massive download for magic somewhere, but IU can't find it

Check out this thread https://yuki.la/x/18837275

Also this thread has pretty much everything they have ever seen or read >>>/x/13385717

>>9588765
>Jung instead of Geertz on symbols
>No Jesus: The Last Great Initiate

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>>9588629
No, its all satanist trash, right?

>>9589255

care to expound on this?

Magick is only of interest to the mentally ill, or those on the path towards it.

Want to know the best way to increase your magical capacity? Stop taking your schizophrenia meds

>>9589658
They're not going crazy; they're going sane in a crazy world

>>9589665
damn...

>>9589663

Sometimes I wish I had schizophrenia honestly.

>>9588616

>>>/x/19089927

You really should hang out here, you might learn stuff. And lots of book links in the Mega.

>>9588876
mckenna is a crackpot - anyone who takes too literally things like chakras - i dont know, who are some and ill see for myself if they are

>>9589254
Most thelemites are mindless sheep following an ossified personality cult. They have no chance of successfully crossing the abyss on the path they follow and wouldnt recognize a master trying to assist them if he grabbed them by the hand and pulled them halfway.

Is there a particular issue you have with the very introductory and broad survey of a work that I recommended? Have you even read it?

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Recommending this.

>>9590173
>most thelemites
How does one even become a thelemite. It seems to be self-contradicting

>>9590178
thanks, copped - not that familiar with jodorowsky, and this is off topic - but i also want to get more into video art

>>9589254
can you please link to somehwere where people unironically think lovecraft was some sort of prohpet hahahah

>>9590225
Jodorowski is great regarding hermeticism, etc. I was just thinking of a video I want to do but making video art kind of requires friends or lots of money of which I have neither.

>>9590185
To be fair, Crowley goes out of his way to address the seeming contradictions in his vision of a religion based on individuals following their true wills. Crowley was a true master, but his legacy has been ruined by his church. It would have been in better hands with Grant, although some problems with the systematisation of enlightenment techniques for the many are unavoidable.

>>9590229
That thinking originates with Kenneth Grant, who thought Lovecraft, although or because he was so ultra-repressed, unconsciously tapped into an important and long dormant magical current that defines a new era for mankind. It's written about throughout his Typhonian Trilogies, which are not accessible to the feebly concrete-minded. Peter Levenda has a more accessible book on the subject more suitable for scientistic idiots.

>>9590178
His comics are great, and for the more serious occultist he wrote what is probably the best book on the Tarot ever written.

>>9589259
>A history of Western Philosophy
>AND Being and Time.

Dropped. Not even close to the same level of difficulty. Russell was a biased Hack.

>>9590369
Russell is funny though if you're already educated. And he's indisputably a genius in the field of logic.

>>9590336
so there's something to it youre saying

>>9590245
There is a lot of uncertainty in the question of enlightenment; it arises necessarily from causes and conditions so it's not for everyone. How do we know if it is for us?

>>9588616
Start with magic black and white
Then read some golden dawn stuff

>>9588689
Triforce or nothing bitch

It's about as real as religion. You can waste a lot of time just reading occult texts. My advice would be to start a practical system like Bardon's, where there are actually ancillary benefits apart from just theoretical reading. This way if it does end up being fakery, at least you will come out a more virtuous, concentrated and balanced person out of it, as opposed to just having book knowledge that doesn't really apply anywhere else.

>ctrl+f "tulpa"
>0 results

Guess I'll be back tomorrow then.

>>9590229
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6HqgmMB1_ZI

>>9590403
One's full realization is the project of life and the universe, everything else is a distraction, generally rooted in fear of discovering the real.

>>9588616
Christ teaches us magic. Egregore but with faith. Faith so strong that it changes the world around us.
>kind of like Matrix

>>9588788
you are a god

>muh gick

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>>9589259
>Cuckservatives: How Conservatives Betrayed America
>Adios America

>>9590502
what am i seeing here

>>9590502
this is so fucking cringe

>>9590389
Never got into his really nitty gritty Principia Mathematica stuff. But at least when it comes to the bits of his actual work that I have covered (Decriptivism about names), he gets BTFO by Kripke et al.

That being said, Problems of Philosophy is pretty baller. I'd recommend switching that for his dogshit History.

>>9588765
Lol, funnily enough I went through a lot of these on what i thought was "my own initiative", that is, without ever seeing this chart. I guess I'm less original than I think lol.

Can personally vouch for Manly P. Hall as a very good primer, and Gurdjieff and Ouspensky as good "big-boy stuff"

Not too big on the Golden Dawn stuff and Kabalism, there's maybe nuggets of knowledge in there but a lot of it is masturbation over esoteric concepts that they probably don't fully understand and that you need to know Hebrew to get, lol. Especially not too big on Crowley, a very turgid writer and i accuse him of the same thing --- writing about stuff he probably doesn't know about, but just seems poetic and cool to him. Some Egyptian mythology here, some Qabala there, some trappings of Eliphas Levi and Hermeticism there, etc., etc...

Robert Anton Wilson is a good intro to the whole subject, despite what other people say. A good INTRO. The more you get into it, the more you'll disregard what excited you so much in the beginning. I'm saying this in the same way that I wouldn't suggest, say, Finnegans Wake to someone who wants to get into literature.

Also Huxley (Perennial Philosophy) and Joseph Campbell (Hero W/ A Thousand Faces) could be good intros.

In general, start with the stuff that interests you to feel around and have an understanding of basic concepts that will be repeated again and again in occultism, you shouldn't dive straight into even Crowley (who I don't like but at least admit writes in a very complex, nuanced, allusive way at times).

Gurdjieff and Ouspensky (from what I've read of the books there) are probably the most mindfucking writers IF they touch something in you. If they don't, then count yourself lucky, as you won't be tortured by obsession with them. I' surprised In Search of the Miraculous isn't on that

The Kybalion also is great and could be read whenever you want, hard to call it either a beginner or an end-level book.

All in all, use, to the degree you can, your own judgement and read what interests you. You don't have to listen to me or anyone else (can you trust me as a genius or a sage?), and if you don't start off with reading what may be trite but interesting, you won't be able to build up to more complex books on it. Just cause I dislike what the Western tradition has of Hermeticism and Theosophy and all that blend of stuff doesn't mean you shouldn't read it, in fact I insist you SHOULD read it to go through the same process i did --- taking what's good from it, and ultimately realizing what stuff you can throw out based on your judgment. There are seeds of great and beautiful knowledge in them from what I know.

Also >>9588749 is a good post.

I think having voices/speech counts as magic

Why don't occultist ever talk about art? Like how would an occultist interpret Shakespeare or Beethoven?

>>9591558
They do.

>>9591564
Examples?

Occultism and magic (for a non crazy) is spirituality involving the mental (mind). Similar to how spiritual healing is non-science based medicine, occultism is non-science based psychology. I find it very interesting, and it can be easier to fill in the blanks of your mind with mysticism instead of hard facts, but it can be very consuming if you get too involved.
Read the Kyballion to get the basic gist. Study Mandaeism, it's early Christian Mysticism. Also druidism, read The Veil of Isis by W. W. Reade for a basic gestalt of many different occulti/religious orders of olde.

I hate this watered-down pseudo-consensus about it being mind-expanding willpower shit. Styxhexenhammer is hocking it lately and everyone is following suit.

Ironically it ruins what makes it interesting by taking the messiness out of it. "Oh, it's all just ______" is a good way to kill it, WHATEVER it is.

>>9592180
magic of the gaps?

>>9588616

Weirdo/loser here. Be glad to provide recommendations.

Introductions to the subject:
>Mary Anne Atwood "Suggestive Inquiry" (general overview of alchemy)
>Anything by Frances Yates (fun introductions to various subjects)
>Rudolf Steiner "Intuitive Thought as a Way of Life" (A sustainable, general approach to life)
>Aryeh Kaplan "Inner Space" (Kabbalah)
>Helena Blavatsky "Isis Unveiled" (wide, heavily opinionated overview of occult/esotericism)
>Anything (even vids) by Stephen Skinner

Serious, foundational writings on magic/esotericism/mysticism:

>Plotinus "Enneads"
>Proclus "Elements of Theology"
>Iamblichus (anything)
>Emerald Tablet of Hermes
>Agrippa's Four Books of Occult Philosophy
>Jakob Boehme (anything)
>Elphas Levi: Transcendental Magic (intro to modern "magic")
>Orphic Hymns

Grimoires/Spellbooks (note, I have almost no experience with these so I am just listing those which I've heard are most useful)

>Key of Solomon
>Lesser Key of Solomon/Goetia
>Grimorium Verum (supposedly dangerous)
>Necronomicon (probably fake)
>Grand Grimoire (really expensive, and supposedly dangerous as well)
>Aleister Crowley "Magick Without Tears" (not sure if this is a spellbook, but it has quite a reputation)
>Picatrix

Be careful with the practical stuff, and always cultivate yourself morally before doing anything. This is as true in esotericism as in life in general, probably more. As earlier posters have noted, if you have predispositions towards instability, unprepared experimentation in this realm can cause severe problems.

>>9588616

Footnote: beware of anyone interested in magic and esotericism who is also heavily interested in dogmatic religion and/or politics. It's a pretty toxic mixture. Always come to your own conclusions, based on the best advice of your conscience.

>>9588753
What is The Real Hustle? I can't find it anywhere.

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>>9593111
>I can't find it anywhere
I found it by typing "The Real Hustle" into Google

The Phenomenal world rewards particular kinds of attention, like belief or allegiance, with a modicum of reward. Note that this is not the Darwinian/Nietzschean/Liberal reward of blood-soaked sportive glory, but bitterly ironic rewards of little to no substance beyond endless participation for its own sake. Almost perfectly ironic because it is touted as immediate Dionysian ecstasy through felt experience and yet one would need Apollonian self-effacement to keep from revolting against the Cosmic gulag one is kept in for temporal eternity under the pretense that THIS is the antechamber to Elysium.

Sorcery is:

1. A name for the means of engaging with the Phenomenal world.

2. A Literary repository reminding one that doing so is Evil.

3. When used pejoratively, a projection of the desperate Yang unable to admit its own abjection.

how can i constantly keep in mind that im going to die? as soon as i bracket it, bourgeois spooks start to take root

>>9588616
"Abracadabra": Aramaic- 'I create as I speak.'

The idea of magic arises from a time where the application of language was about as liberal as murder is today (in first world countries). To speak well and cause influence was a magical art. To cast control over the mind of a listener was an act of mysticism. Of course today this is just known as opinion sharing, or charisma. But in the past words held real weight. They weren't just words, they were the ideas themselves, and to speak in certain tongues could strike fear into the hearts of others (as the idea of curses, damnation, vengeance, or prophecy). That is your true heart of magic. The ancients having more respect for language than it will ever receive again. They were more aware of the influence of one's words over themselves as well as others, and hence religions of peace formed with the practice of loving thought and care. For it strikes not only peace within the hearts of others but alters the mental state of the speaker as well, for better or worse.

Real magic was and always is just influence over the mind.

>>9594444
Your post was fun to read. You've clearly put a lot of thought into your worldview, which is clearly that of a hardcore gnostic.

Isn't, however, sorcery another word for illicit use of spiritual agency, to be sharply distinguished from theurgy? Sorcery is an attempt to break into the spiritual world without having respect for it; using it as means to an end. Theurgy is a form of spiritual agency, being used for communion with God(s), and as a means to fulfill God's will.

Sorcery depends on the assumption that God's will is not entirely good, and that one must use spiritual agency illicitly in order to break free from it.

This, however, seems to be analogous to a man who, knowing how to change a tire, goes to an automotive shop and tries to take over all of the responsibilities.

I agree, the world/cosmos can feel like a gulag at times, but that doesn't mean that I know how to make a better one.

>>9594444
q u a d s

>magic is totally real everyone

jeez this really is the most stupid board

>>9589249
>if you go into it with an open mind you can see some crazy shit go down. but if you go into with a mindset of "prove it", youll most likely miss the point.
Eh? Wouldn't the external crazy shit result be the same, say, in one of those collective events though for both the open-minded and the skeptical?

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Sup OP.

>>9595873
So that infographic does exist.. Reading Prometheus Rising right now and was hoping that this was a thing haha

>>9595873
I've read Kyballion and PR. which of the next tiers is along the lines of RAW's non-localized quantum circut?

>>9595886
Cosmic Trigger is next.

>>9591574
Famous artists were occultists. They incorporated such ideas into their work, and in many cases wrote about them extensively on the side. There are also many scientists who were into the occult, like Einstein, Tesla, and Newton. Literally just google any famous historical figure you can think of and "occult" or "esoteric" and you will probably find something about them.

>>9595873
The third row is dogshit.

>>9595934
>Einstein, Tesla
Source?

>>9595935
Do you mean the one that starts with Undoing Yourself, or Archaic Revival? Can you explain why?

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>>9595944
https://www.theosophical.org/publications/quest-magazine/42-publications/quest-magazine/1250-science-and-the-occult-where-the-twain-meet
https://www.theguardian.com/science/2005/jul/14/3
http://www.theosophyonline.com/ler.php?id=3653#.WTR62OsrIkI

http://www.blumhouse.com/2016/11/01/five-famous-scientists-who-dabbled-in-the-occult/
http://www.collective-evolution.com/2016/07/08/how-nikola-tesla-used-spirituality-philosophy-to-learn-about-reality-limitless-energy-science/

I've been there. At the end of the day you'll find out it's trash all the same.

The existence of supra-normal experiences and abilities aside -who's existence I will not dispute; I will reaffirm them even- the actual material itself is a jumbled mess of nonsense.

The occult is edgelord larping on a historical level. Learn the skills, forget about the theory. It might as well be fanfiction.

>>9595946
Undoing yourself row. The Peter J Carrol one is good but the rest comes from amateurs.

>>9594674

Is there any way to practice magic and be in tune with God's will at the same time? I believe in God and have had religious encounters with God and don't want to sacrifice that but am interested in sorcery.

>>9596373

Read 'The Alchemy of Happiness' by Imam al Ghazali. In it he describes a method for philosophical self-development for the sake of knowing God, which inadvertently results in spiritual power comparable to sorcery.

>Know also, that if the heart should not be tarnished with the rust of rebellion, and if the animal and ferocious qualities should not be dominant, that it would be capable, on account of the presence in it of angelic properties, of manifesting this same influence over other bodies. If it should look upon a lion or tiger with severity, they would become weak and submissive. If it should look with kindness upon one who is sick, his infirmity might be changed to health. If it should look upon the vigorous with majesty, they might become infirm.

http://oll.libertyfund.org/titles/ghazali-the-alchemy-of-happiness

>>9596455

Thanks dog, will for sure check this out

>>9588629
hahahahaha what a cliffhanger m8

Can anyone share any personal stories about getting anything out of any of this shit? I know they can't be verified or anything but I'm in a curious as mood.

>>9596373

>Is there any way to practice magic and be in tune with God's will at the same time?

Yes. But you'll probably want to be a lot more careful than just running out and trying to do magical stuff, imho. I can see the value of an experimental approach, but I think that the real magic in life is goodness, wherever it arises. Interest in magic should stem from an attitude of "how can I become a better person and help make the world a better place" rather than "what can I get out of it/use it to satisfy my every whim?". The line between these two can obviously become blurred. Always remember the Delphic aphorism: "KNOW THYSELF". Your conscience will be your greatest guide if only you learn to listen to it.

Read Iamblichus's book on The Mysteries. Or Shaw's book on "Theurgy and the Soul". The Alchemy of Happiness is also good.

Also STRONGLY recommend Plotinus. He has by far the most rational and broad perspective on most things spiritual. Plato is really good too, but you have to work a lot harder to dig the insight out.

>>9596908

In a general sense, I'd say it has helped me understand how things get done, and has broadened my interest in the world around me. Contrary to what the jaded like to say, the world is most certainly full of mystery and magic, if you only know how to approach it. Most, maybe all people, even if they think that "le occult is stoopid", "gimme muh sciences" or whatever, have magical thoughts or fantasies. It plays a large role in how we act. Learning to approach that more systematically has streamlined my life considerably.

>>9590229
besides the thyphonians there are several lovecraftian cults out there. there are even a few book/articles about lovecrafts cults and theres a lot of books written about lovecraft magic (nox and liber koth, the pseudoenomicon, most of the necronomicons from barnes and noble to name a few) theres a particularly interesting one called the Esoteric Order of Dagon who took their name from one of his stories, and i think theyre apeshit crazy or something. chaos magicians love lovecraft cause his gods are the ultimate fuck you to any type of order. a lot of satanic orders/cults have some lovecraftian influences and shit like the O9A deff have some cthulu magick in there. now keep in mind this doesnt mean much, most "esoteric" or "occult" orders/cults/covens are pretty lame and are usually 4-10 people who try out doing rituals and fucking each other, and theyre usually in somebodys basement. like 90% of people in the occult are those fat nerdy people with no social skills you remember from high school and college, except instead of video games or D&D they ended up getting into magic, and the fringest of these people ended up cthulu cults cause #sppookybro. there are some qt occulty girls out there, but they usually get sucked into witch covens or festival culture, and mostly normal people that are into the occult keep to themselves or join the OTO or masonry or something like that. might be kinda cool to own a cthulu cult doe idk. like i always thought it was cool that there were these underground secret societies that dressed in robes and brought monsters into the world

>>9595873
this is a terrible infographic. looks like some 11 year old from /x/ just threw together. wallstreet and the bolshevik revolution? theres like 20 different systems being represented most of which are contradictory to each other. also dont read alan watts

what is magik with a K

The secret teachings of all ages is a good primer if you wish to understand what there is to gain from studying hermetics.