Holy shit. I didn't think it would be this good. Does it

>>9578584
*takes a great watery shit in your shit thread*
Whoops ;)

>>9578584
>he fell for the sandnigger brainwashing

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>>9578584
>he fell for the religion of peace meme

>>9578590
How does it feel like knowing you'll go to hell for something as dumb as racism?
Arabs are only 20% of the religion.
Brainwashing? Take a look at your own dogmatic hatred towards something you don't understand. Be introspective. I know you're most likely a troll, but come on. At least try harder.

>>9578584
Recommend me a quaran translation/summaries op I've always been interested

>>9578610
t. Reza Aslan

>>9578599
Have you tried reading the Qur'an? It's all about peace.

>>9578612
So far I've read Pickthall, but if you want one that doesn't sound so old-fashioned, I suggest the Yusuf Ali translation.

>>9578612
The Abdul Haleem translation published by Oxford is accessible and the translator is a professor of islamic studies

>>9578622
Hamza Yusuf > Shabir Ally > Reza Aslan
desu

I prefer the Frank Herbert originals.

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>>9578589
Whatever you say or do, just know that you too are forever tied to the infinite. And he's closer to you than you might be able to presently realize.

>>9578584
The hard part is pronouncing it properly, even seasoned muslims mispronounce the words sometimes. I'd rather recommend you read the translations and interpretations first, in this case it's to understand what the sentences mean rather than worry about the grammar. And yes, proper recitals are in arabic, but it's not recommended to read out loud.
I'm not sure of sunni shia stuff, but seems sunnis are closer to the book, because shias tend to disown or hate lots of sunni stuff that are derived from the book and hadiths, such as their hate towards the companions.

Read The Study Quran and the Cambridge Companion to the Quran

>>9578677
>seasoned muslims
ill take an order of marinated cardamom abdul with a side of honey roasted carrots and fresh greens plz and thx

>>9578584
Don't bother with the hadiths, most of them contradict the Quran. Be a Quranist.

>>9578584
NO anon!
Be Sufi if anything then. Most sufis are pretty chill.

>>9579003
>sufism
my man

>>9578584
You wanna do sunni if you wanna get close to the source

>>9579045
I meant to type sufi...

>>9579003
Sufi is not a denomination like Sunni, you can be a sufi sunni.

>>9579049
can u be sufi shia?

>>9578584
Don't even look at the Hadith. They're contradictory and aren't helpful. Shia Sunni division is pointless and based on historical rubbish. Be a Quranist and an Enlightment thinkng Muslim. Not a Hadith reading, prophet emulating Islamist.

>>9578981
I concur. Hadith must go

>>9578610
>racism
I don't have to hate Middle Easterners to know that Islam is a retarded dogshit religion that was founded by a literal goatfucker.

>>9579216
>Not believing Muhammad drank piss and fucked a 9 year old
Got to follow that sunnah, brother!

>>9579314
You sure showed him with your amazing intellect and reasoning, I bet you're well versed enough in Islam and Middle Eastern history to hold a real opinion backed by real knowledge.
Even if you have actual criticisms you do understand nobody will ever take you seriously because you sound like a backwater inbred faggot who gets his worldviews and opinions from Internet forums and headline skimming.

>>9579343
kek
(not laughing at you tho)

>>9579208
This is rather ironic. The mutazils hundreds of years ago are the ones that call themselves forward thinking etc, and yet they're famous for questioning the quran itself. Also the "enlightenment thinking" is yet another irony, since that's the period that gave birth to marxism and equality, something that's proven to be terribly dangerous.

>>9579003
>>9579045
Isn't sufism just a more pious and ascetic branch of sunni?

>>9579045
>sunni
>shia
>not based Ibadi

Wow,/lit/, I'm disapointed.

>>9578584
>What kind of Muslim should I be--Sunni, Shia, or something else?

Check in to some mental ward.
Seriously, aside from its message, the quran is not a good book. The style is simple and repetitive. Nothing novel or interesting about it. I mean, the author didn't become famous for his contribution to literature. This book only makes little sense if you think this religion is true.

>>9579742
>"is yet another irony, since that's the period that gave birth to marxism and equality, something that's proven to be terribly dangerous."

You'd think /lit/ would be a board free of retardation, but here we are.

>>9578625
>Have you tried reading the Qur'an? It's all about peace.
All holy books literally suggest slaughter for non-believers.

>>9582061
Have you read the Qur'an? It's infinitely better than any work of literature. It has the best poetry and prose. It has moved men to tears and creates the laws of nations. You should try reading it with an open heart and mind.

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This reminds me of John the Savage making Shakespeare his religion. Only Shakespeare is more original and well written.

>>9578584
that thumbnail always reminds me of that video of someone with a pool ball shoved up their backside

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>>9578584
To understand the Qur'an you want to consult multiple translations (choose two) and study the Arabic on a verse by verse basis in cases that you find particularly interesting. There are of course many Qur'an study tools online for that.

There are many tafsirs (Qur'anic exegesis) available online in English translation. The classic tafsir by Ibn Kathir cites hadiths. For modern tafsirs you can easily find sets of, for example, Islamic radicals Qutb (Muslim Brotherhood, executed for radicalism, posthumously a major influence on Salafi fanaticism and jihadism like al-Qaeda ideology) and Maududi (some of his other works are banned in Pakistan because of radicalism even though he founded Pakistan's largest Islamic organization). There are many other tafsirs online. Or you could get a set of books of some modern mainstream tafsir.

For Sunni hadiths Sahih Bukhari or Sahih Muslim will keep you busy probably for years alongisde other Islamic studies. I don't know about Shia hadith collections.

As supplemental works you might want to acquire companion books to the Qur'an that are more academic (as opposed to religious) in nature. I.e. books that investigate the Qur'an critically rather than from a point of view of uncritically accepting all Islamic premises.

A classical biography (sira) of Muhammad is also necessary. Ibn Ishaq is the most obvious one, and the surviving version of that book was edited by Ibn Hisham.

>>9578610
Islam is not only an overtly supremacist belief system, but at its core it's also an Arab supremacy, hence converts taking on Arabic names, hence the fetishization of Arabic phrases and language, etc.

>>9578584
Really? This was the most boring trash I've ever read. An entire Sunna about byzantine inheritance laws? No thanks

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>>9578789

>>9582459
I fucking hate when Muslims go on about how beatiful Qur'anic prose is. Its not that good, and I've read it with an open mind. You see it as amazing because you believe it. Stop pretending its a literary masterpiece

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what the fuck is this board even

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>>9578584
>What kind of Muslim should I be--Sunni, Shia, or something else?
The dead kind.

>>9582945
Informative post, thank you

>>9583415
You probably read a translation.

>>9578676
>and we have already created man
I do not know what this is supposed to mean. Who is referred to by "we?"

>and we know what his soul whispers to him
This is clearly talking about desires.

>we are closer to him than his jugular vein
I take this to mean "we" are inside of the man.

What is this supposed to mean exactly?

>>9582182
>implying non-believers don't deserve swift execution to save society from their godless corruption

>>9583515
Sounds like Allah, or whatever, is the "we", don't take anything that book says as truth though.

>>9583415
>You see it as amazing because you believe it. Stop pretending its a literary masterpiece

You see it as unimpressive because you don't believe it

>>9583564
>non-believers, in the eyes of muslims, means majority of the world.
>muslim dog ignores islam's obvious "religion of peace" hypocrisy.
I'll never understand this mentality. Wew.

>>9583515
It's royal "we". Using "we" to mean "I" is common both in English and Arabic.

If you couldn't understand this verse, how can you say you don't believe. First you need to understand, then you can consciously choose to disbelieve.

>>9583580
Kafirs are those who consciously disbelieve and consciously subvert the Truth.

Most people aren't kafirs, because they haven't consciously disbelieved. They've misunderstood Islam and have disbelieved a caricature of Islam, not true Islam, so they wouldn't count as true disbelievers/subverters of truth.

I'll admit it's actually pretty good

>>9583603
>consciously disbelieved
>They've misunderstood Islam and have disbelieved a caricature of Islam
>not true Islam
The line is a subjective one. Neat.

>>9584087
If someone says to you "hey do you believe in aliens?" and you respond with "no, I don't believe in blood-sucking monsters that can turn into bats" then clearly you've misunderstood what this person meant by "aliens".

Likewise, when people say "hey what do you think of Islam?" and the response is "I hate terrorism / theocracy", they've clearly misunderstood what "Islam" is at it's core (submission to God).

You can't disbelieve in something you don't understand. Most people that disbelieve in God or Islam simply don't understand it. The Qur'an says they will receive explanation on what they didn't know or disagreed upon, on the Day of Judgement.

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>>9584734

>>9584755
This is obviously reactionary and anti-critical thought.

>Everything I learned about cars was that one time I crashed
>Everything I learned about white people was that one time I met a skinhead
>Everything I learned about women was that one time a gold digger stole my money and falsely accused me of rape
>Everything I learned about /lit/ was that one time an anon posted this bullshit about "everything I learned about Islam was on 9/11"

All of it is pure generalizations. Cars, white people, women, and /lit/, are broad groups of people/things that encompass much more than the worst iteration of that thing.

>>9584734
Nope, I get it and I think it's vile. Just like I get Christianity, but respect it, yet can't bring myself to believe.
Islam is a corruption of the Abrahamic tradition and should be spat out of the West, or reformed into a milquetoast new age cult. More than doable considering how much stupider and under-educated its followers are.

>>9578584
>what kind of muslim should I be?

the dead kind

>>9578625
>quran is all about peace

which part of the sura 8:12 is about peace?

[Remember] when your Lord inspired to the angels, "I am with you, so strengthen those who have believed. I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieved, so strike [them] upon the necks and strike from them every fingertip."

source https://quran.com/8

>>9584776
>islam is a corruption of the Abrahamic tradition
>projecting this hard

Ever wonder why the "Holy Spirit" and the "Son of God" don't appear anywhere until the New Testament (and even then, not all gospels)?

It's because Christianity is a corruption of traditional strict Abrahamic monotheism. Islam is a restoration of this monotheism, and a universal invitation, not one that is exclusive to the Jewish people, as some of them have thought.

>>9584788
you're not wrong. christianity is abrahamic monotheism adapted for white civilization, while islam is judaism updated for desert evil doers

Muslims >> Marxists desu

>>9584795
unironically this

>>9584779
Peace isn't just being super chill and mellow, letting evil people go without punishment. Peace isn't inaction or lethargy or merely silent meditation.

To achieve peace, in this particular circumstance, a punishment was sent down against liars/corrupters/conscious subverters of truth.

>>9584798
Muslim Marxism > Juche > Anything else

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>>9584800
>all non muslims should die
le religion of peace :)

pic related is (you)

>>9584795
>evil doers

You say this as if morality isn't extremely circumstantial. Islam doesn't teach that sin is something extremely stringent and dogmatic and can never be done, even if the action itself is used for good.

Muhammad said that it's dependent on intention. If you must fight a war to save your people from persecution, then it's a noble intention, and shouldn't be lumped in with the malicious intention of murder.

>>9584800
settle down there, al-baghdadi

>>9584809
>can't read critically

I said "IN THIS PARTICULAR CIRCUMSTANCE".

>>9584800
haha, peace is violence

>>9579745
Rumi had drank, dance and had gay butt sex.

>>9584820
Remember World War II? The world only gained peace from fascism and Nazism after going to war and experiencing awful chaos.

To attain peace, we sometimes need war.

The only Abrahamic faggots who think of their scriptures not only as revelation, but as the actual speech of god. Couple that with the historical context of the quran and you get the hip hop of the Abrahamic religions. Every once in a while a moose lime faggot comes along and tries to convince you that there is such a thing as conscious hip hop, which has intellectual and ethical merits and insists on #notallmuslims because of his conscious rap.

No mate. It's all garbage. You're just to close to it to see it.

>>9584830
Hitler wasn't an enemy to islam.
He was a fighter against the very same group of people who's attacking islam savagely today.

>>9584849
You missed the point entirely.

I'm not specifically talking about all the details of WWII. I'm using WWII as a way of saying "violence is sometimes necessary to atain peace."

This principle in Islam exists. If you MUST fight to end oppression or to defend yourself, then it's deemed permissable. The concept of "lesser jihad" in Islam isn't inherently wrong. It's how it's used by people who don't read about Islamic rules of war (which forbid sneak attacks or killing of civilians).

If the terrorists really wanted to wage jihad, the islamic way would be to create an army and declare war against a specific nation for specific reasons, not broad anti-west, infidel-killing for the sake of it.

>>9584819
>the particular circumstance in question is not at all related with the sura I mentioned, which is completely generic and arguably universal
>I can't read critically

muslim education

getting sick of /lit/ this has to be the most spook riddled board on the whole site, there's always some foolish child stuck in the "idealism" stage of development trying to push some retarded ideology, islam, catholicism, communism, whatever, shit is fucking stupid and not literature related, this board fucking sucks

>>9584974
>waaahhh people believe in some of the most popular ideologies and religions in the world not my super cool niche bullshit like voluntary egoism/individualist anarchism.

>>9584964
>I am with you,

God is with us. Think about what this might mean to people.

>so strengthen those who have believed

Consider what belief means and how a knowledgeable, hopeful person might be better suited to acquire this quality of "strength."

>I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieved,

God controls even the most intimate details of our subjective experience. Fear is brought not by our own will, but by God. This fear is brought not to people who accept truth and reject wickedness. This fear is brought by people who consciously reject truth and who do wrong, knowing it is wrong, for their own opportunistic gain. THESE are the people that are being punished, in a circumstance of war.

>so strike [them] upon the necks and strike from them every fingertip.

Striking them upon the necks is one of the quickest way to kill. It's in fact far more merciful to strike the neck than it is to stab and wait for them to bleed to death. The cutting of the fingertips is to disarm them from ever regaining the capacity to injure or kill you or civilians in your community. This was a situation of war, and the side that was fighting the muslims was merely the side that lost, not the most ethical side to be on. In fact, they were intolerant and oppressive: they subjugated their women and were in constant war with each other. It was Islam that freed the peninsula of them and united the tribes, with very little bloodshed.

>>9584821
So basically every back then, I do remember turk sultans having boy harems.

>>9584840
Not an argument.

>>9584974
Stirnerfags belong on reddit.com

>>9584775
It's ok guys, did you hear 9/11 was just this "one time"? Everybody deserves a second chance. We're cool now!

>>9585158
it is an argument. The quran is the only abrahamic scripture taken by its followers not only as the word, but the speech of god. The violence embedded within its historical context is undeniable. Make of that what you will.

Islamic exceptionalism is real. It's exceptional in its resistance to western secular values.

>>9585166
You're taking a religion with the population of 2 Chinas and you're saying a few thousand terrorists and a few bad governments damns the religion.

It's nonsense.

>>9584795
This

>>9578589
>>9578599
>>9578622
>>9582061
>>9578590
>>9585173


Quran [7:28] Say, “God does not command indecency. Are you attributing to God what you do not know?”
All praise and thanks are due to Allah, and peace and blessings be upon His Messenger.
Quran [2:256] There shall be no compulsion in religion; the right way has become distinct from the wrong way.
Quran [109:6] “You have your religion and I have mine”
Quran [10:99] Had your Lord willed, everyone on earth would have believed. Will you compel people to become believers?
Quran [18:29] And say, “The truth is from your Lord. Whoever wills-let him believe.
Quran [88:21] So remind. You are only a reminder.
Quran [88:22] You have no control over them.
•Allah (SWT) has systematized Moslims relations with non Moslims;
Quran 60:7 Perhaps God will plant affection between you and those of them you consider enemies. God is Capable. God is Forgiving and Merciful.
Quran 60:8 As for those who have not fought against you for your religion, nor expelled you from your homes, God does not prohibit you from dealing with them kindly and equitably. God loves the equitable.
Quran 60:9 But God prohibits you from befriending those who fought against you over your religion, and expelled you from your homes, and aided in your expulsion. Whoever takes them for friends-these are the wrongdoers.

>>9578584
As another said, it reminds me of Mr Savage in BNW who makes shakespeare his religion. Except, Shakespeare belonged in England, Islam doesn't.

>>9585228
>religion of peace meme
If Islam was a religion of peace, muslim extremists would be some of the most peaceful on earth.

>>9585233
"Peace" in Christian societies has come to mean "turn the other cheek; let yourself be trampled."

More sensibly, peace means closeness to God and tolerance/love with all humans and animals. How can you live in peace while some humans violently oppress and subjugate others--maybe even including yourself? Do you merely pray to God? No. The Qur'an teaches that God permits you to defend yourself and to defend others, and that actions are attributed to intentions. How can a murderer and a person defending himself against the murderer violently ever be considered "the same"? They aren't! One imposed himseld violently and the other defended his life. All life seeks to protect itself from harm. Islam is more life-affirming than some modern death cults that would encourage you to let yourself be killed and to casually accept the misery of society by tyrants and oligarchs.

>>9585245
Islam does not belong in the west. The day that Islam is mainstream will be the day that the west is no longer the west.

>>9585250
You do realize that everything from the Enlightenment to the US Constitution was heavily influenced by Islam, right?

This idea of "the West" is fairly new and only nominaly true.

>>9585256
Not another historical revisionism meme

>>9585256
My point being that the west has values and traditions that don't fit with islam, not in the slightest.
I've seen that first hand too.

I think many people are conflating Islam with the pan arabism pushed by the Saudis onto the rest of the world. In a world where they weren't spreading their particular brand of cancer Islam likely would be by and large more peaceful

>>9585318
>pan arabism pushed by the Saudis
>Saudis
>pan arabism

lol

>>9585256
we wuz muslim kangz

Apologists, #notallmuslism friends, #islamisnotwahabism brothers, riddle me this:

1) How does your community deal with apostasy?
2) How does your community deal with you and your daughter if they spot her kissing a kafir on the street or if word gets out that she gags on her non-muslim boyfriend's cock pretty much daily? How do you and your community react if she marries him?
3) The charlie hebdo question? Should blasphemy be punishable in any way?
4) Do you find theological justifications of violence acceptable in any circumstance?

I live in a UK city densely populated by muslims. Not one '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''moderate muslim'''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' has been able to answer these questions satisfactorily. Fortunately the UK media has recently been giving voice to some muslims who do answer these questions in the way most Westerners would and who call for a reformation of Islam and a condemnation of anyone whose answers are incompatible with Western secular values. But you call them uncle Toms, or undercover atheists.

Sort you shit out, or we'll do it for you to the point where it's as benign a religion as Buddhism is in the West.

Look towards the truth. Sufi is where you will find your light

>>9584795
>adopted fornwhite civilization
This retarded, the great centers of Christianity were either Greek or Levantine/middle eastern outside of Rome. And a very large portion of Christians were Arian until the church suppressed that.

>>9585192
>a few bad governments
Literally every single government you fuck.

>>9585256
This has to be a fucking joke, the founders despised Islam

>>9578981
How do you do your Salah if you reject the Hadiths?

>>9585256
WE WUZ (MUSLIM) KANGZ N SHIT

>Top 10 pranks that went too far.

>>9578584
Not OP, but how do you guys cope with the structure of the Koran? I know it's arranged by length of passage, not chronologically. Idk if I could deal with that in a religious text.

>>9578584
converter, was a muslim for over 5 years, prayed 5 times a day, kept ramadan and so on. Took me a long time to figure out that the koran is not from god. Be honest to yourself, would god allow rape, killing and propose death penalty for people which change religion?

>>9585965
God can do/be what ever the fuck he wants. He is morality, he does not abide by morality.

>>9585573
Jefferson and Adams admired Islam greatly and used it as a basis for the new government.

>>9585385
>1.
Islam deals with apostasy by giving the nation the power to decide what to do with apostasy--which at the time was associated with treason.

>2.
A "kafir" isn't someone who merely thinks he disbelieves, but someone who consciously knows the truth but still rejects it or holds it off (the kind of people who do wrong but think they can just ask for forgiveness later). Very few people are genuine kafirs, and it's not for human beings to decide what lies in the human heart. God alone determines who are the kafirs and who is the truly submissive Muslims.

>3.
Blasphemy isn't punishable in any way in Islam.

>4.
Violence is the religious duty for the protection of the violently oppressed. The Qur'an says that oppression is worse than war/fighting and it's true. But the type of violence that ought to be undertaken is not the heedless, savage violence of terrorist groups who commit suicide or attack civilians. In violently opposing tyranny, we must never attack innocent lives and we must never kill ourselves.

>>9578612
I'm currently reading a translation by Abdullah Yusuf Ali - I blieve its 19th century. Beautiful - comparable with KJV.

>>9585573
The founders were intellectuals. Only retards like yourself despise Islam or any other faith.