I'm halfway through Fagle's translation of the Odyssey.

Fagles.

Also the plot of the Telegony is super fucking weird.

"A storm forces Telegonus onto Ithaca without his realising where he is. As is customary for Homeric heroes in unfriendly land, he commits piracy, and unwittingly begins stealing Odysseus' cattle. Odysseus comes to defend his property. During the ensuing fight, Telegonus kills Odysseus with his unusual spear, thereby partially fulfilling Tiresias' prophecy in Odyssey 11 that death would come to Odysseus "out of the sea" (i.e., the poison of the ray).[10] (In another respect, however, Odysseus' death contradicts the prophecy of Tiresias, who predicted (Od. 11.135) that a "gentle death" would come to Odysseus "in sleek old age"). As Odysseus lies dying,[11] he and Telegonus recognise one another, and Telegonus laments his mistake. Telegonus brings his father's corpse, Penelope, and Odysseus' other son Telemachus, back to Aeaea, where Odysseus is buried and Circe makes the others immortal. Telegonus marries Penelope, and Telemachus marries Circe."

Fagles is smoothest and most powerful read for a modern English speaker, easily. Unless you're doing academic work (Lattimore), just read Fagles.

I've done some preliminary googling around and can't find a quick answer to this.

Why/how did Athena get the title of Pallas Athena?

>>9569070
We don't actually know. There's some debate about it, but the general classicist consensus is it refers to the giant Pallas, who was slain and flayed by Athens in the battle with the Gods.

>>9569100
Slain by Athena I mean. There also seems to be references to her wearing his skin as a cloak as the origin of the epithet.

>>9569100
So somewhere in there is the root of a Palladium as a large [giant] stadium?

>not reading Pope

>>9569136
>Pope
>translation

uhm...

>>9569136
Oh dear ...

>>9569150
>>9569154
>i'm an autist who wants my poetry translated literally

Might as well not read it at all. Literal translations of poetry do not work.

I recently read a review on The New Criterion of Caroline Alexander's translation of the Iliad, and it convinced me that it was as good as Lattimore, and sometimes even better. It also convinced me that Fagles is rather shitty. i don't know whether she has translated the Odyssey or not, but you should still check it out.

>>9569171
>she

>>9569165
>Thinks Pope translation is good
>Jumps on 'literal translations' as a weak defence for poor taste.
Try harder, kid.

>>9569165
>I'm an idiot who thinks the movie Troy, the book Black Ships Before Troy and Pope's """"translation"""" of the Iliad are relevant to a discussion of TRANSLATIONS

why would you waste your time reading that instead of just watching the movie? it's old and poorly wrote

just watch the fucking movie - put your "reading time" into a good book not some stupid fucking overrated gobbledygook written by ape-men

>>9569195
>>9569196
This is funny coming from people shilling fagles. Fagles isn't Homer anymore than Pope. He's just an easy to read version.

You're aren't getting Homer with literal translations either, that's kind of the point. When you translate homer literally, you ruin the poetry that makes the epic poem so good in the first place.

You're losing all aesthetic value.

Now you can actually critque Pope without memeing, but looks like you guys don't even know what you're talking about and just read 'it is a pretty poem, Mr. Pope; but you must not call it Homer' and that's all you have to base your decision on.

If you're going to read a modern translation at least read someone like Merrill you stupid plebs

>>9569150
It is a translation though

>>9569216

>autistic screeching intensifies
>muh Pope

yikes.

>>9569225
Very funny, I had a good laugh at that one Anon!

>>9569226
>i'm a worthless shitposter who thinks he's funny

You probably haven't even read homer at all.

>>9569216
nice reddit spacing

>>9569208
I am trolling here but honestly I am such a noob at literature that I seriously believed this up until I googled the Fagles translation and started reading some of it...

so this Homer guy was actually amazing

I wish I had been smarter about literature earlier in my life than having to play catch up like this

>>9569230
Achilles' wrath, to Greece the direful spring
Of woes unnumber'd, heavenly goddess, sing!
That wrath which hurl'd to Pluto's gloomy reign
The souls of mighty chiefs untimely slain;
Whose limbs unburied on the naked shore,
Devouring dogs and hungry vultures tore.
Since great Achilles and Atrides strove,
Such was the sovereign doom, and such the will of Jove!

Declare, O Muse! in what ill-fated hour
Sprung the fierce strife, from what offended power
Latona's son a dire contagion spread,
And heap'd the camp with mountains of the dead;
The king of men his reverent priest defied,
And for the king's offence the people died.

...how is that not a translation? Which parts have been added to or taken away from the original Greek?

>>9569239
>You probably haven't even read homer at all.

As someone who fell for the Pope meme, neither have you

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>>9569248
>Pluto

"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""translation"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""

>>9569196
Pope is very much related to the discussion, dumbass. It is still a staple stone in the history of English translations of Homer.

>>9569216
Get a load of this guy, folks. Didn't even entertain the idea anyone can read ελληνιkά kαι ομερος.
>idiot

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Pope is about as much of a translation of the Iliad as the movie Troy with Brad Pitt

The dude literally just felt like writing an epic poem, couldn't come up with anything and then stole the premise of the Iliad

>>9569171
>Translation of Homer
>She
Oh boy...you have a long way to go, lad.

>>9569127
I don't think so - from what I've read it comes from the Greek Palladion, which was an image of Athena which was supposed to safeguard things. You never know with some of these things though.

>>9569176
>>9569276
>Caroline

fucking elitist retards

>>9569276
>>9569176
look as the elitist retards fail to comprehend basic sentence structure and identify the subject/object and proper adjectives in the statement

and misattribute their error to the error of the writer

all while claiming to be smarter than the writer and telling the writer that they are stupid

irony

>>9569288
>translation of Homer
>she

Anon.... that doesn't belong on a bookshelf, that belongs in the trash!

>translations

wew lads

I bet you went to a comprehensive

>>9569293
It's really ironic that you are saying all that while completely failing to comprehend the posts you are replying to and doing exactly what you are accusing the other posters of

The point isn't "it's not a woman" the point is "it's a woman so that translation isn't worth considering" you dope

>>9569294
oh, I get it. you're being sexist

lol

>>9569248
It's not a translation because Pope couldn't read Greek. He used English translations of the poems to produce his "translation".

>>9569303
Fucking hell, you finally caught up.

>>9569302
sorry I'm autistic as fuck

I guess I need to read more to cure my retardation, though I fear I may be hopeless

>>9569303
Wow, that only took you like 20 posts and 10 paragraphs to comprehend!

You are probably a woman

Also I'm just being rational

>>9569304
Source? Or are you just rusing? Pope's version comes with notes explaining his translations from the Greek, and I'm pretty sure Greek would have been standard for educated Englishmen of his era.

>>9569288
>>9569293
>>9569303
Jesus, lol. It's really not a hard concept to comprehend. I'm not sexist, but translations are definitely the kind of thing that takes the mind of a man to do well. Especially with something as complex as Homer. I don't know why you'd want to read something besides Fagles are Lattimore to begin with.

>>9569259
Pluto is LITERALLY a translation of Hades. How stupid are you people? Just because reading Pope makes your head hurt doesn't mean it's not a translation.

>>9569365
Like someone else said further up, the anti-Pope crowd hasn't actually read Pope or developed their own opinion, they've just read that one quote on Tumblr or something and that's it.

>>9569381
No it's not, anon. Where is the π in Άͅδης? Come back when you know what you are talking about, faggot.

>>9569381
If I wrote a book loosely based on the Iliad but set in modern day New York city on the wall street stock exchange with the CEO Mr. Thunder taking the role of Zeus, would you call that a translation?

>>9569381
Pluto is the Roman version of Άͅδης. It's not literally a translation at all. Now fuck off, kid, you don't know what you are talking about.

>>9569400
How is it not?

Google the original meaning of 'translation.'

>>9569413
>literally all the words are different
>not even set on the same planet
>different names for everyone
>characters might act or behave differently
>THAT'S A TRANSLATION BECAUSE IT'S LOOSELY BASED ON THE SAME PREMISE!

wow you Popetards really are retarded

>>9569413
in maths and physics translation means changing the position of an object in space. if there's a copy of the iliad on a table and i push it a bit with the tip of my dick, i have produced "a translation of the iliad". and it's still better than pope's

Fifty posts in, and no mention of Fitzgerald. Is his translation really that bad?

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>Akhilleus

>>9568889
Rieu. You can't translate ancient Greek poetry into English. It's pointless.

Get off your high horse and realize that Rieu's prose translation captures the spirit better than any other translation except maybe Pope's liberal and baroque version.

tl;dr 1. Rieu 2. Pope

>>9569528
No, it's just memed less often.

More like FAGles.

>>9569412
You have to be kidding, right? You can't be this illiterate. It would require effort.

>>9569528
No, it's good.

lombardo's is the most bro, bro

>>9571536
Lombodombo can fuck right off

>>9569528
Fitzgerald is great. I'd say his is the best actually, besides Pope.

>>9571491
Not at all, that anon is completely right. Pluto and Hades are not the same words. Now who is the illiterate one?

>>9568889
Should have read the Fagmore version.

>>9568893
*Fagless'es

>>9569248
>>9569263

>rhyming couplets
>Latin names
>Strays from original
>Collaborates with other authors and tries to hide it
>Satirist otherwise

Guys, i'm starting to think that Pope's "translation" was actually just a big joke that everyone took seriously by accident

Can anybody please explain the advantages and disadvantages between Fagles, Fitzgerald, and Lattimore translations?