Am I the only one who thinks its amazing how the right wing has

no. they're not doing anything new, just continuing what was considered normal if not progressive in some circles only a hundred years ago. picking up from where fellows like lothrop stoddard left off. largely due to internet + anonymity since many of their ideas, at least when stated bluntly rather than couched in obtuse language, are violently unfashionable. was only a matter of time before they resurfaced.

The left is actually also doing what you describe. Recuperated Marxism (Third Way leftism) is the enemy of the far left and the fart right. The future looks bright because Debord is becoming a hot topic again.

>>9559019
I'm not sure how selling Soviet tees to college kids is doing anything for the left. Do you think the normalization of communist imagery is going to affect a major social change? Because universities have been doing the brutalist architecture thing for decades. If you could clarify a bit I'd appreciate it.

>>9559014
HRx has ancient roots, obviously, but right-accelerationism is pretty new

>>9559014
>just continuing what was considered normal if not progressive in some circles only a hundred years ago

This

>hmmm maybe mental illness is a social construct. So maybe I shouldn't feel bad about liking lolis.

>>9559080
>a girl of marriageable age is a loli
eugenics was made for people like you

>>9559095
>10 is a marriagable age

So why do people hate Islam again?

>>9559099
Because it's associated with violent brown people. The art isn't so good either.

>>9559004
>Am I the only one who thinks its amazing how the right wing has utterly co-opted the analytical tools of the Marxists?
No, I'm more amazed at how in the world would people think there is such thing as a left wing that would mantain some manner of monopoly over continental philosophy, especially the contemporary kind, and keep it away from de ebil gabidalists.

It's not like Debord tried to warn people of recuperation or anything, right?

Have you not heard of that madman who lit a lantern in the bright morning hours, ran to the campus, and cried incessantly: "The universities are corporations! The party you vote is a corporation!" -- As many of those who did not believe to be commodities were standing around just then, he provoked much laughter. Has he got lost? asked one. Did he play too many video games? asked another. Or is he hiding? Is he afraid of us? Has he gone on a voyage? an asylum seeker? -- Thus they yelled and laughed.

>>9559019
>>9559185
what is this talk of recuperation? mind explaining it?

>>9559192
>the process by which those who control the spectacular culture, embodied most obviously in the mass media, co-opt all revolutionary ideas by publicizing a neutralized version of them, literally turning oppositional tactics into ideology. The SI {Situationist International} identified the threat of revolutionary tactics being absorbed and defused as reformist elements. The SI pinpointed the increasingly evident problem of capitalist institutions subverting the terms of oppositional movements for their own uses recuperation operated on all fronts: in advertising, in academics, in public political discourse, in the marginal discourses of leftist factions, and so on.
Read Society of the Spectacle and Comments on the Society of the Spectacle.

Debord also made a movie, but I recommend the book because it covers many more important topics like the commodification of time. SoS is more than a discussion of the Spectacle itself, it's basically an introduction to marxism in a media-dominated age.

>>9559004
>the right wing
>the Marxists
>bla bla
implying these are political forces "co-opting" anything instead of intellectual giants pushing knowledge into areas the puny commons can only comprehend through the petty lens of politics

>>9559004
I'd like to choke her.

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>all this delicious left wing salt as they slowly realise their theories about the inevitable direction of history were incorrect, that the post-war welfare state was a blip, and the future will only be more capitalist corporatism, atomisation, and the god-like power of the uber-wealthy to service their own needs

>>9559233
this

>>9559004
>the far right is doing serious intellectual legwork to lay the foundation for the re-establishment of functioning polities worldwide.

2/10
Made me reply

>>9559233
i love this modern right-wing idea that your own life being a nightmare is worth it because your suffering supposedly annoys imaginary leftists.

>>9559004
too bad all this shit only exists within the framework of liberal identity politics and internet fandom. have you noticed the popularization of ostensibly taboo shit like holocaust denial? it functions like a fandom, people will link you to the leuchter report like they used to link you to their petition to bring back firefly. all this supposedly radical shit comes back as a meme, and it's shocking for five minutes until it isn't. it comes back in this castrated way. these people are not nazis, they're the nazi germany internet fandom. a lot of them are probably jewish.

in liberal identity politics the hijab is unacceptable because it's a symbol of the oppression of women, but it can be rendered acceptable by a simple symbolic operation: if the hijab is worn by a woman not because her oppressive muslim society forces her to do it, but because she is choosing to wear it to express her identity as a muslim. islam as a traditional social order is incompatible with liberalism, but it can be "digested" by it, turned into a liberal "cultural identity" where the hijab is now a fashion choice by which a woman expresses herself, just like dying her hair pink or whatever. now you can have a lesbian muslim transwoman, with a dick under her dress and pink hair under her hijab.

this is what the internet revival of radically conservative positions is doing. it's presenting these supposedly unacceptable views for digestion by the liberal identity politics apparatus so they come out the other end as nonthreatening tokens of liberal identity. there is this unreachable utopian vision of liberal multiculturalism and the alt-right is working towards it, not against it, it's helping it swallow these ultraconservative positions that at first glance seem incompatible with it (like the hijab used to). i'm genderfluid. i'm a nazi. i'm a star wars fan. i'm a lesbian. i'm a monarchist. i'm a furry. i'm a reactionary. i'm gay. i'm a men's rights activist trapped in the body of a lesbian, please donate to my indiegogo to help me transition, allah will bless you if you do. hail hitler!

>>9559328
this thread has nothing to do with nazism (neo or otherwise)

>>9559004

It speaks to the fact that Marxism is fundementally correct, as far as an analysis of society and economy goes, but that 'is' doesn't imply the 'ought' that those works were originally written with.

>>9559004
You just have to realize right wing and left wing ideas continually alternate like day and night. It's the natural process of human culture.

>>9559004

I don't understand how the right wing has become the party of blue collar workers. Isn't that the left's bread and butter?

>>9559185
This is precisely the problem though. Left-wing politics has become a commodity of liberal capitalism that can be consumed at will.

>>9559648
The Left abandoned them in favour of migrants; you can't claim support the working class while shipping in hundreds of thousands of immigrations, they aren't fucking stupid.

>>9559614

Marxism is fundamentally incorrect. People will always be divided more by ethnicity/culture than they are by class.

>>9559663

Didn't the left-wing used to criticize immigration and globalization, because it made things worse for the workers at home? Now that seems to have completely reversed.

>>9559676
Blame idealism, the left are obsessed with it.

>>9559676
That's exactly why politics is a total fucking complete meme. It doesn't make any sense. Right and Left are spooks.

>>9559676
>>9559703

it's because the ruling class put all of their effort into undermining anti-globalist leftism after Seattle, but they forgot to watch the right and lost control of the narrative on that side for now

>>9559703

Thank you. The entire concept of political ideologies is totally flaws. Words like "socialism", "fascism", "democracy", "authoritarian", seem to have absolutely no meaning at all, their meaning changes every few years and it means different things in different locations. It says more about who is saying them, than what they are actually describing. And don't get me started on the completed ridiculous left-right spectrum that has no descriptive value at all.

I've come to totally hate political language. It is meaningless. It is vague. It clouds rather than clarifies thought. It makes us think backwards: "is x policy an example of socialism? Is y policy an example of being libertarian"? People are more interested in adhering to the ideologies than anything.

>>9559721
Exactly. You're explaining it very fine.

>>9559664
>americans

>>9559004
>The thought of Marx, Gramsci, Debord, Marcuse, Deleuze, etc. has all been subsumed by NRx and its offshoots.
I mean apart from how NRx and whatever its offshoots are are probably complete bullshit...

>>9559326
Why do people fight for their own servitude as if it were their salvation? Dor the lulz. No wonder /pol/ is right-wing.

>>9559803
*For

Accelerationism is a Hegelian concept. Hegel was a blood thirsty right wing traditionalist who wanted to suck Napoleon's dick. it's Kant, also a traditionalist, who began the shitshow by opining a priori conditions for experiencing phenomena and exalting imagination, and it's Nietzsche, also right wing, who took it to extreme lengths and finished it. What did Marx, Gramsci, Debord, Marcuse, Deleuze, etc, offer except obfuscation?

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>>9559757
NRx isn't bullshit, it's just that it's still too cold to really motivate people beyond Stick It To The Leftists. It has aesthetics, but that's *all* it has (although that's not a small thing). It lacks an appropriately human psychological dimension, something other than theory. Ethnat and alt-right guys are looking to introduce this in familiar Defend Evropa ways, and this will work on some people, but to me the answer isn't 2D Deus Vult. It's literature. Proper, capital-G great literature.

Nick Land is good at suffering and despair, but you can't root for collapse. He's just doing his part to delineate the face of the horror that people are going to have to live with. That's his contribution, to see the obverse side of capitalism and Marxism as clearly as anyone has ever done, to the point where it destroyed his mind.

The thing that's lacking is a kind of optimism and positivity that isn't hopelessly naive or fanatically positivist. You can be constructively right-wing and not be a giant asshole. Right now we have our choice of miserabilisms, cynicisms, black holes, etc to fall into. So how can you resist a black hole? Put something beautiful between you and it to focus on.

"Root the earth," as someone said. I liked that.

>>9559803
>people fight for their own servitude as if it were their salvation
I find this to be very true. Both leftists and rightists do this, but rightists even more.

>>9559004
>Am I the only one who thinks its amazing how the right wing has utterly co-opted the analytical tools of the Marxists?
[citation needed] show me anyone seriously critically studying natural science or economics that's just not ideology.
"Right wing" politics, its success, is premesised on mass unemployement; it's a result of the lumpenization process that neoliberalism set in motion, drug addication, collapsing of communities, etc, etc... its answer is austarity and getting use to lower living standards

>>9559648
>I don't understand how the right wing has become the party of blue collar workers. Isn't that the left's bread and butter?
In America workers don't view themselves as workers, there's no oppositional "workers culture" just one mass pop culture everyone engages in. Those "blue collar workers" you're thinking about identify themselves as "Christian Americans" not "workers".

>>9559676
Yes, those are called protectionists and there's a lot of reacationary left-wingers who don't understand how capitalism functions and think becoming more like north korea would be a good thing.

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>>9559004
Think you're conflating "the left" with the visible portions of the left, while conflating "the right" with the intellectual portions of the right.

I'm seeing the right increasingly get bandwagoned with "kekistan" retards and such and less people that have read Julius Evola and such. That being I'm trying to understand shit more but I'm literally too low IQ to ever be more than a pseud, one standard deviation above the norm + low conscientiousness combined means I will always be a pseud.

>>9559721
Socialism and Fascism in particular have been extremely abused.

Socialism = everybody chips in money to buy a power plant, and it also = everybody gets money after we sell off a power plant. It literally can now mean the exact opposite thing it once was.

>>9559909
>Socialism and Fascism in particular have been extremely abused
Funnily enough, Italian Fascism was eminently socialist.

>>9559721
>baaw some words are context-dependent
>baaw language is not a precise expression tool
2/9 for making me reply

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>>9559080
The modern SJW left has zero argument against paedophile acceptance in the intellectual framework a ton of them subscribe to and when the normies realise this they're going to lose their fucking minds at them.

The amount of pedo acceptance shit I've seen in recent years is ridiculous. Leddit is a pedo loving nexus.

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Modern leftists have perfected the art of creating young conservatives, a task previously considered impossible throughout history.

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>>9559934
>my concept of contemporary political ideologies and social trends is based entirely on browsing the internet

>>9559942
yes

>>9559648

That's just for one election. They were sick of Obama messing with issues like transgendered bathrooms while they watched their manufacturing jobs sent overseas. Once Trump said he'll bring the jobs back they went all in on him.

We don't know how many of those jobs will actually come back but cutting the corporate tax rate to 15% is meant to have companies move back to the states.

Those blue collar workers could jut have easily voted for Bernie if he campaigned differently and wasn't a socialist boogeyman.

>>9559917
Nice post. Except it's trash.

>>9559676
Democrats have always been pro cheap labor, that's why they fought for slavery.

Republicans have always been petit bourgeoisie.

When you understand the democrats are a pro-business party you start understanding US politics a lot better.

>>9559948
If it was based entirely off browsing the internet I would believe the left was legitimately going to be successful in getting pedo acceptance going because the internet consists of childless ideologues.

>>9559917

We all know that words are not set in stone, but political language is especially bad. Virtually all words used in politics are "ideological words" that encompass many different belief. Concrete language is hardly ever used.

I don't get why the working class always seems to identify more with people like Hitler, Trump and Putin

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>>9559004
>Strong homogenous tribes of HRx subsistence-farmers will be thriving in the woods in a way that Woodstock-attendees and hippie commune-livers of the 70's never could have even dreamed of

made me think of this. it's almost like Western civilization was made out of strong collectivist bands of farmers or something

>>9559974
The craving for simple strict power hierarchies and strong authority figures comes free with being a brainlet.

>>9559648

Working class people tend to be collectivists in the genuine sense of the term; meaning, they are not multiculturalists. They are tight-knit and want to have a bonded community that can work together. They don't want to share their resources with a bunch of outsiders and they don't want the culture to be changed from the outside.

The modern left wing ideology of collectivism + multiculturalism makes zero sense.

>>9559648
the ruling class neutralized the left by making them fear being labelled "racist" if they protest against globalization, so taking the easy way out like the spineless leftists they are, they now protest in favor of globalization, leaving the working class to shift right

>>9560001
This. It seems to be the case that not only is there no room on university campuses for right-wing thought, and increasingly there's no room for insufficiently left-wing thought either.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xK4MBzp5YwM

>>9559974
The democrats literally tax the first $1000 you earn while calling themselves champions of the poor workers. They tax the upper classes more, but just think about that, they literally tax even the first little bit of money you earn and then give your money back to you after taking a cut. This money is largely redistributed in urban areas and to people on welfare when a ton of republican voters are rural.

They flood new people into the country, devaluing labor within the country, to the benefit of business. Sure they raise the minimum wage, but they're helping push down the wages especially wages relative to cost of living for everybody else.

Dems introduce tons of regulations, which are inherently easier for larger than smaller businesses to be able to abide by, and to pay the fines when they don't abide by them.

People see the repubs as supporting independant wealth that makes the poor less dependant on the government and rich. When people hold the roots of their own wealth, that makes the rich less able to jerk them around by threatening to leave the country when they don't get their tax cuts.

Dems are better if you're not making money at all, if you're making minimum wage, if you're disabled, if you're a businessman relying on outsourcing and immigrant labor, a lot of different things. Republicans see themselves as, not so much helping the most disadvantaged, but keeping the economic strength of the country within the group of people making above minimum wage, and small-medium size business, and rural/suburban areas. Which has appeal, even if you're not in that class of people, if you imagine yourself as wanting to climb into that class, and if you're male especially generally you're never going to be satisfied if you're making minimum wage/on welfare no matter how much money you're given because you will lack social status and nobody will ever sleep with you.

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>>9559004
>while the far right is doing serious intellectual legwork

>>9559867
blackpill my man
the worship of destruction has already begun.

people are thinking about rebuilding, not preserving

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>>9560061
>people are thinking about rebuilding, not preserving
This. Finally people are learning the lesson. With a delay of one century, but they're learning.

>>9560061
Perhaps. I'm not into the destruction of monasteries though. Pretty fond of those.

Plus I'd be shit at paganism.

>>9559867
>He's just doing his part to delineate the face of the horror that people are going to have to live with. That's his contribution, to see the obverse side of capitalism and Marxism as clearly as anyone has ever done, to the point where it destroyed his mind.
> to the point where it destroyed his mind.

This meme is stale. If you listen to his recent lectures at the New Centre it's quite clear his brain is functioning fine, compared to any average esoteric academic anyway.

Qwernomics: Path Dependency & Semiotic Fatality Session I
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLPs4TRYh1Unpf9t5BgA_6VHr-Oyw2Cy8m

Nick Land - Bitcoin and Philosophy
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLPs4TRYh1Unr-_knTP9pf84eT698qCj-I

Nick Land - Outer Edges
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLPs4TRYh1Unq8xFETda6BHxbQeps-uTtO

>>9560105
No one said you have to destroy monasteries. On the contrary, beauty (a stationary fragment of eternity) must remain. Destruction is to be directed towards machines, i.e. any system or process than simply doesn't work and causes problems. If something is stuck, eliminate it. It's simpler.

>>9560116
True. He does seem to have recovered it.

Thanks for the links also.

>>9560017

You clearly don't know anything about economics. Yes, you might pay more taxes, but you will end up SAVING money in the long run because your healthcare and education are free.

>>9560116
people actually watch this shit? 196 views. guess not.

op and his ilk are blinded by a charade of spooks. modern society uses marxist analytical frameworks because they are useful, its not a partisan issue, only fiscally and intellectually impoverished struggle with this idea

>>9560186
part of the low viewcount is probably that they're unlisted videos. If you don't have the link, you won't find them. I think this is either to protect the identity of the students engaged in the seminar, or it might be because of the New Centre recently cutting ties with Land.

>>9560026
>>9560026
Guessing this is a jew.

The left/right paradigm is no longer very useful, but to use it for the sake of argument, yes, the most intellectual and cutting edge thought overwhelmingly comes from the right these days. There's not even a competition it's so lopsided. Not the old right that was coopted by jews and became neoconservativism and tried to make the right about abortion and muh constitution, etc. I'd say the new right's problem until recently was that it was *too* intellectual and didn't have a plebe ground game, though it did wisely target youth via image boards -- whoever bears responsibility for that likely intentional manifestation. But /pol is small potatoes overall, more an online intelligence operation than anything else.

The left these days are a bunch of freaks and faggots too stupid to realize they're pawns for nation-destroying jewish globalism. It's an intellectual void. The boomer ideologies that propelled the left are stale and dying, and they literally have to stifle discourse these days to maintain their hegemony. This intellectual vacuum, caused not only by the jewish-run left's preference for fake egalitarian lies over natural truth but its outright hostility best represented by its attempts to import a new underclass to replace the European populations of the west, likely means that we are reaching a civilizational tipping point. One that will end with yet another mass expulsion of the jews from western nations.

>>9560210
even if you just search for "nick land" on youtube, the views are in the low five figures, which is nothing

>>9560217
ok but here's thing...if you believe that people are unequal and that egalitarianism is all lies...and the jews are controlling all of world culture and the global economy...then doesn't that make them the master race? and since you don't believe in egalitarianism or equality, what's you beef? the jews are superior and rule over you, stop crying, what are you some kind of leftist snowflake who believes in "equality"?

>>9560163
That's only if you couldn't get healthcare and education* for cheaper than the rate the government can give them to you at. SPOILER: You can, very easily. The vast majority of the population would. The government taxing you just to give you a small portion of it back is idiotic and the entire mentality is what leads to corruption in government. Not to mention it's not nearly as simple as just "healthcare and education" as the money is spent on far more than just those two things, nor does it deal with the needs of individuals or regions. What if I have healthcare from the government but I don't need it? Then that's a waste of money as far as I'm concerned and the """""""""""""FREE"""""""""" healthcare I receive is just money leaving my pocket and benefiting me in absolutely zero form. I'm ignoring "But it could help someone else!" as that's a different argument, we can come up with a better healthcare scheme that makes my money help people without hurting me.

It's far better for people to just get a lump sum of money and have the optionality to do with it what they please, it helps everyone except 0.01% of the population who are legitimately retarded enough to blow their entire pay check on hookers and blow.

You also assume the process is 100% efficient; it isn't. As I've already said the (semi-hidden perks) method just leads to more corruption in the government meaning you are, no matter what, losing money as it's going to some crony's pocket instead of the intended destination.

The single biggest thing the People's Action Party in Singapore did to reduce corruption was just give people lump sums of cash as payment instead of meme bonuses. Instead of MP's getting chauffers and servants and mansions and drivers and cars and healthcare they just got given a wad of cash and could spend it as they needed. Paying for an MP's driver is a literal waste of money if the MP doesn't use a driver.

I'm feeling generous, so here's some greentext:

>Yes, you might pay more taxes, but you will end up SAVING money in the long run because your healthcare and education are free.
>We're going to take 60% of your income, but give 20% back to you! See, you're SAVING money!


*Literally no one except a handful of nuts argue that High School and Elementary should be totally privatized and any arguments even humoring the idea are solely to kill Teacher's Unions so they will stop giving money to the Democrats.

>>9560233
Have you ever seen a jew? They're ugly, short, and weak ... not exactly what I'd call a "master race." I will give them credit for developing a post WW2 plan that allowed them to attain power by manipulating European morality and guilt in a perverse manner, but I think that represents their insanity more than it highlights their right to rule. We're likely to see a much better representation or display of will to power once the left's hegemony fades and Europeans begin to reassert their influence over their historic nations.

>>9560263

sure you can get cheaper, but thats irrelevant to the cost of a state regulated social apparatus.

>>9560220
Congratulations, you've discovered that literally nobody outside of Philosophy cares about Philosophy.

>>9559004
>NRx
What is that?

>>9560275
well i could look up any guy who isn't a total crank and he would probably have 10 times the hits, but even then most philosophy is just pseud bullshit, if you're lucky you get someone who really does something important once a generation, i've had deeper discussions than those stupid nick land workshops on fucking 4chan

>>9560270
ten bucks says jared kushner is better looking and taller than you, fatty, why don't u go trim your neckbeard and put in an application at mcdonalds before your mom throws your nintendo in the trash again

>>9560282
You could look up a popular philosopher discussing topics that aren't philosophy and find many videos with 10 times the hits, yes.

99.99% of Philosophers couldn't get a video above 10 videos, Land is the equivalent of a celebrity, having entire articles dedicated to slandering him in national newspapers.

I don't think you realize how bad it can get, John McTaggart, a major figure has like one video on youtube about him at 300 views.

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>Capitalism comes into existence and immediately becomes hellscape dystopia
>Marxism predicts that the inexorable logic of capitalism will cause utopia
>Capitalism predicts that the inexorable logic of capitalism will cause utopia
>Marxist countries become fascist hellscape dystopia
>Capitalist countries become fordist hellscape dystopia
>Marxism reacts to failure of utopian economism by actively contesting class division in the superstructure (Gramsci, Frankfurt School, Sorelian syndicalism)
>Capitalism reacts to failure of utopian economism by actively contesting class division in the superstructure (New Deal, social democracy)
>Capitalism reabsorbs post-Marxist culture of critique back into itself, nothing changes
>Capitalism reabsorbs New Deal and social democracy back into itself, nothing changes
>Marxists give up on orthodox Marxism, go on magical vision quest to find capitalism's evil core, try to use schizoanalytic alchemy and magic genderbending superpowers to topple phallogo-patriarcho-liquidsnake capitalism
>Reform capitalists fuse with post-Marxists, try to find the Great Evil Penis that sustains All Capitalism
>Evil capitalists fuse with evil fascist technocrats, absorb postmodernism by giving everyone PhD meme degrees in Post-CriticaI I Hate Penises Studies and turning everything into an ironic t-shirt
>Reform capitalists and post-Marxists now work for evil capitalism

>>9559648
Because it was easier to bribe migrants to vote for them.

>>9560312
>John McTaggart
> McTaggart is known for "The Unreality of Time" (1908), in which he argues that time is unreal.

wow man you mean time is a social construct so we can know when to plant the crops and show up to work? what a deep thinker dude

>>9560325
>When /g/ attempts to /lit/: the post.

>>9560285
You hypothetically lost $10 and your insults are weak. Verdict: jew.

>>9560331

/g/ is a better board than /lit/, i wish this board had their level of maturity

>>9560314
The amount of isms is giving me a stroke.

>>9559099
Because instruments, alcohol and portrayals of senetient things are Haram

>>9560345
/g/ is filled with autist freetards who think they are 'leet' for using obscure technology that no one uses because it actually kind of sucks if you use it for anything beyond toy and hobby projects, there aren't many places to discuss literature on the internet that don't suck, but there are so many places with much smarter communities to discuss tech than 4chan out there

>>9560345
>/r9k/-tier """"techies"""" that read SICP once and spend their days reinstalling Gentoo and shitposting about Apple is better than literally anyone
Embarrassing post desu.

I can't tell if leftists are capitalist or socialist. Traditionally they tend to criticize capitalism, but lately I see them accepting it on the grounds of a "global marketplace" and "free trade and movement" and celebrating the fact that factories in rural areas are closing due to automation and outsourcing. They seem to love capitalism when it makes multiculturalism more likely.

>>9560345
/g/ is one of the few boards where reddit is actually a much better topical alternative

>>9560375
see >>9559703 and >>9559721

>>9560271
Whether we're dealing with a state regulated good/service or not is irrelevant to the central point: If I don't use EVERY SINGLE unit of whatever good or service the state is providing me at tax payer's expense as a """"perk"""" then it's going to waste. I'm not saying we should privatize everything, I'm saying we should:

1) Look at the simplest option (Just giving people a lump sum of cash, or just taking as little money from people as possible)

2) Utilize market forces even in situations where we don't like market outcomes by designing systems that don't lead to those market outcomes.

Look at co-ops: They're designed to make a profit, but this profit is purely used to fulfill some other function. A corporation cares about maximizing the profits of its shareholders, whereas a co-op isn't bound by that. A co-op can utilize market functions without leading to the same outcomes as a corporation utilizing market forces.

Look at the Basque industrial co-ops. Yes, they turn a profit, and that profit is solely done to pay their workers a competitive wage. Look at Grocery co-ops. Yes, they turn a profit, and that profit is used to provide customers with high quality produce.

This is precisely the point I'm getting at. Education does not HAVE to be run in a manner that maximizes profit to put as much money into shareholders pockets as possible, and neither does healthcare. Both can be run in a manner that generates profit to pay workers but does so in order to achieve the best quality education and give the best healthcare. This is literally what Singapore does and it does it to great effect.

>>9560345
Nah. /g/ is useless. It is "technology" like /fa/ is "fashion." Just a bunch of preening consumer neckbeards signaling brand loyalty.

>>9560375
>I can't tell if leftists are capitalist or socialist.

you'll find both varieties of leftists, it a wide spectrum. On one end you've got utopian socialists who want one world government, on another end you've got neoliberal capitalists who want to preserve the freedom and dignity of democracy and the peer to peer relationship. On other positions you've got anarchists who want an end to global order in favor of local communes and collectives.

>>9560431
>anarchists who want an end to global order in favor of local communes and collectives
examples of these absolute madmen?

>>9560447
Not who you are replying to but Keith Preston is a self-proclaimed anarchist who has written about the larger state breaking up into smaller states based on ideological preference.

>>9560233
there is no "masterrace" every race evolved independtly in order to survive in its own environment. The Jew is the master of the city, of the exchange; The Jew is not the Master of Europe. He thrives in our current fucked up political order, but once we blanket-ban usury he will go extinct.

>>9560447
I'm not well read on Anarchism beyond it's historical roots. But Bakunin is the go-to source for this stuff. He advocated against statism, in the 1800s, just as internationalism and nationalism were taking off. It's kind of a crazy world view, but at one time, it didn't seem inevitable that the world would "globalize".

You've also got the anarcho-primitivist stuff, the eco-separatists, even Ted Kaczynski at the most extreme end.

>>9560516
>>9560467
Thanks

What should I read by Unabomber and why?

>>9559721
>I've come to totally hate political language. It is meaningless. It is vague. It clouds rather than clarifies thought

Do you have a pamphlet for this? I'd like to subscribe to your anti-ism-ism.

>>9559898
>and less people that have read Julius Evola and such

I think I'd rather have a discussion about someone's rare-pepe folder than a discussion about their thoughts on Evola.

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>>9560523
He lays it all out for us so clearly

>>9560534

im under the impression thats basically what zizek is saying, and presumably stirner

>>9559965

That post said "the Left." Democrats aren't leftist. Of course the binary of capitalist politics in America is for cheap labor.

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>>9559898
>have read Evola
>intellectual

>>9560263
>It's far better for people to just get a lump sum of money
this
UBI is the future

>>9559004
I'm sorry, what does this have to do with literature? Maybe slightly, but you should post this in /pol/.

>>9560001

Hasn't Communism always been globalist? When has a nationalist project ever succeeded in combating capitalist global imperialism? The Iranian oil weapon was a good attempt but simply left us in this shitshow.

>>9560572
It's a discussion of philosophy, lightweight philosophy perhaps, but it belongs here.

How does one save a whole thread in some archive? I fear this one could get deleted if it receives a certain numbers of reports

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>>9560217
>The left these days are a bunch of freaks and faggots too stupid to realize they're pawns for nation-destroying jewish globalism. It's an intellectual void.

>>9560574
North Korea

>>9560270
>the left's hegemony

The USSR was dissolved in the 90's my man. Global capitalism is the current state of affairs. Even Cuba is teetering on the edge of losing its status as a leftist country. This is what happens when you rightists pull the curtain on the overton window in order to hotbox each other's farts.

>>9560574
Cuba

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>>9560558
>Intellectual
>interested in politics
>Not reading the book the person who runs Brietbart and Trumps strategist says he was inspired by
>Not understanding a major fascist influence in a political climate where people namedrop the concept of fascism constantly
>Not reading Evola and blindly giving Pseud opinions about US politics and Fascism

>>9560431
>on another end you've got neoliberal capitalists who want to preserve the freedom and dignity of democracy and the peer to peer relationship.

We tend to call these people capitalist pigs and therefore not leftists.

>>9560447

Prince Pyotr Kropotkin

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>>9560638
and yet they are still liberals

>>9560638
They're centrist maybe, but the history of the left really begins with "Liberte, Egalite, Fraternite".

>>9560523

I'd suggest reading Man and Technics by Oswald Spengler for a good understanding of the human relation to evolving technics. Unabomber was an angry crackpot who bombed energy execs for the wrong reasons. I admire his thoughts on the insane dependency on technology, but even a broken clock is right twice a day.

>>9560620

I think Castro did a helluva job, but we're right now seeing Cuba be subsumed back into global capitalism. Hopefully that doesn't happen.

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>>9559004
related piece by Nick Land:
http://jacobitemag.com/2017/05/25/a-quick-and-dirty-introduction-to-accelerationism/

>>9559867
>It lacks an appropriately human psychological dimension

Land:

>What is it that Neoreaction — perhaps I should say The Dark Enlightenment — has to offer the world, if all goes optimally (which, of course, it won’t)? Really, the honest answer to this question is: Eternal Hell. It’s not an easy marketing brief. We could perhaps try: But it could be worse (and almost certainly will be).

>>9559942
>Modern leftists have perfected the art of creating young conservatives, a task previously considered impossible throughout history.
Reading Debord I couldn't help but notice how he wants people to read books written by people living in a pre-Spectacle age, and how the Spectacle is invested in preventing this from happening.

There is a far larger overlap between conservatives and what's left (punt intended) of the marxists than either would ever be willing to admit at gunpoint.

Something similar was brought up during this Eagleton-Scruton conversation ("debate" is too strong a word, too much English gentlemanliness going on): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qOdMBDOj4ec

>>9560686
i wish people would stop posting these second rate british "thinkers"

>>9560705
It was just an example

>>9560684
Yeah...I forgot about that line. You're right. He does have another good post where he talks about hell being the forge of virtue. For a while he seemed to have gone through a phase of being really taken with the Calvinism.

I'm trying to balance my thinking about Land with Peterson videos and it's fucking my shit up.

>>9560730
>I'm trying to balance my thinking about Land with Peterson videos and it's fucking my shit up.

why do people waste their life on youtube pseuds

>>9560614
You don't seem to understand how things work. Communism and western neoliberal capitalist globalism (or whatever you want to call it) are both "leftist" jewish machinations. That communism failed doesn't mean "leftism" failed. Jewish globalism still pushes leftist values like feminism, free capital movement, faggotry, open markets, multiculturalism, constant growth, etc., because they are beneficial to the global jewish globalist oligarchical system promoting such things through international jewish institutions like the IMF, World Bank, UN etc. Organizations like these punish states that do not comply with those leftist jewish principles, and often with force supplied by the US enforcer state which is currently owned and operated by members of the same jewish oligarchical elite. When communism failed, most of those communist jews simply moved to the west to spearhead the new scheme, but both were products of the same people and have the same end goal.

>>9560749
can you give us a reading list so we can better understand your ideas?

>>9560758
Jewish Study Bible
The Origins of Biblical Monotheism

The (Wiley-)Blackwell Companions to:
- The Hebrew Bible
- Judaism
- Ancient Israel

The Chosen Few - How Education Shaped Jewish History, 70-1492
The Invention of the Jewish People
You Gentiles
The Diary of a Young Girl
If This Is a Man/The Truce
I And Thou
The Star of Redemption
The Dignity of Difference

>>9560735
Well, I don't really have much of a life in the first place. So there's that.

The other answer is that after a lot of reading postmodern/deconstructive/Marxist-theoretical stuff I guess I just find esoteric/spiritual stuff more interesting, more meaningful. Reading Negarestani, for instance, tells me - welp, good luck trying to be more nihilistic/pessimistic than that, than geotrauma (or Landian acceleration, or insert horrible thought here). Given that I am not pursuing a life in academia or in politics, I basically want to read stuff now that it's interesting and will help me basically just manage my life at this point, which is so fucking damaged by suspicion that I can barely get out of bed in the morning.

So the gospel of Suffering, in various forms, works for me. Suffering makes sense, more sense than modernist social experimentation/subersion/whatever. Peterson is eloquent and articulate and I like his lectures. That's basically it.

>>9560735
>why do people waste their life on youtube pseuds

Why do you waste your time on 4chan?

>>9560758
https://frieze.com/article/art-war

>>9560758
I am >>9560749 but I did not post this: >>9560776

And I'm not a Christian and haven't read most of those books. But generally speaking, yes, understanding how jews work is the only way to understand both ancient and modern ideological weaponry and to fully grasp how the world functions. If you don't understand or don't want to understand that we in the west live under a jewish order, things just won't click. I read the Economist front to back for over 5 years and only realized how I'd been getting intellectually scammed by jews once I learned about the jewish problem. These are people who lie on a mass scale and they are the sole reason why so many people out there are uninformed.

>>9560621
I actually read Evola, that's why I brought it up. The whole fact of claiming that reading particular works makes anyone an 'intellectual', let alone works of a single author is brainletism par excellence. Although, considering your the_donald tier reply I'm not surprised.

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>>9560544
>tfw you pass the pleb detector for once
have a rare pepe my friend

>>9560820
Yeah I'm jewishand I endorse this message. Obviously there are innocents (I personally haven't done anything to ruin the western world and don't want to), but my mother (the jewish one in the family) is deeply embedded inthe academic systems that do exactly that, and genuinely doesn't seem to realize it. Sad.

I will raise my children vaguely Protestant, but probably only at Christmas and Easter. I have a normal last name, look normal (thank God my father is just a regular American), and haven't told anyone my Jewish heritage since I left high school where everyone already knew it.

>>9560749
>Jewish globalism still pushes leftist values like feminism, free capital movement, faggotry, open markets, multiculturalism, constant growth,

You are using a neoliberal definition of leftism to categorize neoliberals as leftist.

>Communism and western neoliberal capitalist globalism (or whatever you want to call it)

Well what do you want to call "it"? Because those two things mentioned are absolutely antithetical. Would you call it "Jewry"? The reason you are wrong is because you are shoehorning actual political theory into a deranged conspiracy theory schema.

The end goal of communism is communism. Neoliberalism opposes this. Our current situation has not been shaped by a racial cabal but by economic processes by which the zeitgeist changes its productive environment. Ascribing any sort of teleological component to the existence of liberal capitalism is beyond moronic.

>>9560596
are you retarded? lurk more before posting you dumb nigger

>>9560217
> The right are a bunch of MAGA wearing science deniers.

> The left are championing reason and logic to better understand the nature of our world.

If you're going to cherry-pick then be specific otherwise you come off like a dumbass.

>>9560749
>Jewish globalism still pushes leftist values like feminism, free capital movement, faggotry, open markets, multiculturalism, constant growth, etc.

so what who gives a shit? unless you're a loser who can't compete what do you care? you aren't some kind of leftist worried about "equality" are you?

>>9560911
i googled it. i need to be spoon fed.

>>9560217
>>9560217
>the most intellectual and cutting edge thought overwhelmingly comes from the right these days.

Name one relevant rightist intellectual - a real intellectual. Jordan Memerson does not qualify.

>>9560924

thomas sowell

>>9560789
Fuck off, 4chan can even be full of pseuds, but sure it's better than staring at some random hack who speaks with the usual trite voice falling in lots of stereotypes just because he needs more views. Youtube is 95% garbage.

>>9560911
Fuck you motherfucker, I've been here for 3 years. I just don't know how archives work. Who decides which threads deserve to be saved somewhere and which ones can simply vanish forever?

>>9560686
Marx himself admitted that rule by aristocrats wasn't that bad. It was the Capitalists that he couldn't stand.

>>9560966
If you agree with him you're retarded, just be aware of this

>>9560966
>Marx himself admitted that rule by aristocrats wasn't that bad. It was the Capitalists that he couldn't stand.

no. marx said many times that capitalism was progress towards communism, it was a higher stage and an improvement, you clearly have no clue, damn where do these stupid fucks come from

>>9560961
the jews

>>9560966
We need to go further back, to Hegel, which is where it all started in the first place.

He was a great philosopher, everybody wans a piece of him, even the analytic crowd started to warm up to him FFS.

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>>9560217

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>>9559004
>the far right is doing serious intellectual legwork

kek

>>9560984
>acts as if I were asking something totally absurd and foolish
I wonder how you learned to read and write

>>9560907
Leftism / liberalism is the cultural or social method through which the current neoliberal economic order gains power by turning people into individualized consumers who mistakenly believe the moral values that have been provided for them are in any way their own. They are the values of the deracinated, the weak, which is why they presuppose that group struggle is over and that everyone should just get along peacefully. This is an illusion that has been implanted into them by the jewish elite to keep them passive numales and corporate feminists.

>Our current situation has not been shaped by a racial cabal but by economic processes
This is simply untrue. Systems are a reflection of the people who create them or are in control of them. As long as you pass blame onto an abstract "system" you will continue to be unable to see (or direct rightful blame onto) the people (jews) in control of it.

>>9560917
You should care; we should all care.

>>9560924
I think one of the most important philosophers of our age is Greg Johnson of counter currents. So there's one for you.

sometimes i wonder if anyone who isnt white/jewish/maybeeee an eastern marxist has even thought about this shit

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>>9561015
>gets irrationally assmad about a simple joke

>>9561015
>doesn't know how to use google
go back to rabbit m8 you don't need to keep responding to defend your honor on ANONYMOUS image boards

>>9561046
I repeat: fuck yourself up herfucker full of stale shit

>>9561040
If it was a joke I didn't get it. Can you answer me now?

>>9561033
Abstract political philosophy is a strictly white endeavor. Berniebros highlighted this rather well and they were forced to realize it the hard way. What liberals like that wanted, which includes many things I would want, were only things that white people value. And since the democratic machine had already decided to be the nonwhite party, and since nonwhites don't think in lofty and abstract political terms, they became irrelevant.

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>>9561053
THE JEWS, RACHEL

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>>9561068
More?

I've never seen a right wing argument against Marxism that actually disputes his points and isn't simply the same buzzword phrases like "they tried it and it didn't work!!!"

In 2017, left wing = promoting multiculturalism and right wing = trying to resist it.

This is essentially where the divide is right now. This is the subtext behind all of modern politics. Even if you live on a hippy commune in Vermont, if you don't want minorities around you will be considered far-right.

>>9561087
i've read some neoliberal economics textbooks that make a pretty clear argument that free trade results in a more efficient so prosperous economy than closed borders, try:

>World Trade And Payments by Caves, Frankel, and Jones

>>9561097
>In 2017, left wing = promoting multiculturalism and right wing = trying to resist it.

and nowhere is anyone even challenging capitalism, capitalism is triumphant, now the only debate is how gay should people be allowed before feeling ashamed? sucking their husbands dick? spit roasted by two studs? gangbang bukake? as long as the commodities keep flowing idgaf

>>9561087

There is no argument that actually supports the labor theory of value. It is simply wrong.

The Marxist notion that people are divided more by class than by nationality is also totally wrong. People's cultural values are more important to them than the equality of foreigners.

>>9561087
I'm not a leftist but actually there are arguments against Marx. One of them has already popped up in this thread

>>9559664

>>9559664
>People will always be divided more by ethnicity/culture than they are by class.

have you not witnessed trump and kushner trotting the globe doing deals with chinese and arabs and anyone else who wants a piece? only the poor care about "race" and "culture" the rich care about one thing: money, and that's why they're rich and you are shitpost your life away on pol

>>9561087
Also, there is no impeccable political system for humans... and never will be.

>>9561124

Just because they make deals with others, that doesn't erase the notion that they feel more connected with people of their own culture.

>>9561142
kek this is some fresh bullshit actually

>>9561124

If you were right, then the rich would live in vibrant multicultural centers. But they don't, they live in gated homogeneous communities.

>>9561099
And a lot of money goes into convincing you of exactly that. Free trade never really exists, and is not necessarily bad, except when when you apply it to vastly different nations of people with different capabilities and standards of living. That's what we have now, and its effect has been overwhelmingly negative. That's why the standard of living in the west has gone down. It's good though ... for the people who pay the people to write the text books you mentioned because they want to destroy our nations and dissolve out borders. Free trade also means the free movement of capital, which is also bad. Lastly, it's not simply free trade vs protectionism. Not that simple, and the same people who write those books are same people who have made words like "protectionism" into pejoratives.

>>9561154
this is even more bullshit! kek!

>>9561099
One of the basic components of Marxist theory is that capitalism is an essential stage and is necessary for development. Communism is merely the next stage.
>>9561115
Go re-read Mein Kampf

>>9561155

But what's bizarre is that in the modern world, supporters of capitalism ALSO are supporters of protectionism. While supporters of socialism tend to be the ones who like free trade and global movement.

It's just bizarre. The world has done a 180 in politics.

>>9561154
>then the rich would live in vibrant multicultural centers

have you ever been to manhattan or london my dude? maybe the local small time bourgeoisie in your flyover state do that, but if you've ever been in a global city with the big bourgeoisie, it's always multicultural as fuck

>>9559004

You are totally incorrect. The left wing is still far more sophisticated in their propaganda, the right wing is hilariously transparent and ineffective. This is because left wingers are better educated and better suited to technology.

If it seems to be changing, it's because right wingers have finally caught up. They are always a few decades behind in intellectual and technological ability.

>>9561170
No one is protectionist. It's political bullshit. Trump talked about protectionism while making deals in multiple countries on the other side of the world.

>>9561154
They don't stay in "vibrant multicultural centers" because they want power, not isolation, and power = money. Fucking retard.

>>9561124
>only the poor care about "race" and "culture"
This is a really dumb statement, but a good example of how the current conditioning works. White people care immensely about status, and the jews know this; what better way to appeal to that desire for upward mobility than to tell people only the poor care about ethnos and culture ... whereas high status rich people care about abstract values and the global community we're creating for you. You don't want to be seen as *poor* do you? Eww, gross ... those poor, uncultured people who care about race!

>>9561173

the cities overall are multicultural, but the neighborhoods are segregated as fuck. The super rich live in all white areas in New York and Los Angelos

>>9561185
There's a reason they're poor. It's because they're uneducated.

>>9560314
>X becomes hellscape dystopia
Except no. Nothing ever really was a hellscape dystopia in its entirety. The rest is correct.

I can't stand the current leftist world, but wew... reading these threads really gives you a measure of the dullness of the right-wing kids

>>9561195
Think you missed the point.

>>9561184

But you just said that dealing with other cultures will get you more power and money, idiot.

>>9561202

Explain, or your post will stand as a meaningless ad-hom.

>>9561208
It will stand as a meaningless ad-hom, I'm fine.

>>9561202
>leftist world

what leftist world? the middle class in the west is being destroyed, and we're being driven to oriental levels of inequality, but the ruling class has you tricked to think this is "leftism", i don't care, i got mine, but i feel bad for the sad trumpist just being lead around without any clue of what's happening to him

I am left-wing and I must admit that you are right.

>>9561211

As long as you realize your post was pointless and lacked any insight at all, and your smug tone doesn't cover up your lack of intellectual engagement.

>>9561203
The point you were making is that ignorance and poverty don't have a strong correlation when they do

>>9561204
>other
Yeah, not your own culture. They don't give a fuck about national culture.

>>9561191
this is true. You >>9561173 are wrong. I live in Chicago in a 98% white neighborhood. A mile from me is the same but for blacks. I would never step foot there

>>9561213
>i don't care, i got mine, but i feel bad for the sad trumpist just being lead around without any clue of what's happening to him
If only you knew that this despicable attitude is even more indicative of someone who's being led around without a clue. You are the atomized, the selfish, out for only yourself.

>>9561215
Seems like you came from /mu/. Maybe I should just shitpost in here until the thread reaches his bump-limit.

>>9561220
well of course no one wants to live with blacks, but south and east asians and wealthy hispanics all mix freely in places like manhattan, some of the best property is being sold to chinese and arabs every day

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>>9561215
You tell him, girl!

>>9561227
right because i should care about some illiterate fool from /pol/ because he is "white"? nah.

>>9561217

Not him but I feel like every "side" has really smart and really dumb people. The left wing has your really smart Marxist academics but also really dumb inner city folks. The right wing has well read reactionaries but really dumb chritstian rednecks. At the end of the day I don't think one side can claim they hold sole intellectual superiority, especially since Trump got the majority of educated whites and the majority of high income voters...which seems to destroy the narrative the left has created, which is that Trump voters are purely dumb, uneducated hicks.

>>9561238
/thread, seriously

>>9561238
high income voters voted from trump because they want lower taxes, and after trump gets done cutting obamacare and foodstamps, he might be able to lower taxes, if he doesn't blow it all on military bullshit

>>9561208
I don't think it really functions as ad-hom as much as you're taking it. Conservatism implies a certain Aristotelian moderation and virtue. That's, well, dull. Most of Western art, literature comes from bohmeian progressives who are ostracized from the walled castle of power. Now that capitalism has flipped the script on the gay theater kids running the ideological state apparatus it doesn't change the function of conservatism -- it just makes the job of selling en masse more difficult.

>>9561217
Ignorance of what? The most ignorant people of our age, whose ignorance will one day have books written about it, are the virtue signaling liberals who promote the multicultural destruction of their nations from beautifully green and 90% white suburban spaces. The most educated of our time are the most ignorant because our current education system is the means through which ignorance is transferred. I understand why you think this way, but it's incorrect.

if the rich cared about "race and culture" more than money then they wouldn't have spent the last two generations to slowly destroying the new deal and pushing middle class whites back down to the poverty levels of the 19th century, the only thing in life that isn't a spook is the cold hard cash in your fist, ignore this at the risk of wasting your life on some cause that is not your own

>>9561237
I'm not from pol. Is it easier for you to ignore the truth if you think I "came from" pol?

>>9561258
i didn't say you came from /pol/ learn to read

>>9561258
Neo-pol tends to use "I" very aggressively. Anonymous image boards don't lend themselves well to first person rhetoric which brings me to the conclusion that you're a reddit kiddie who found /pol/ recently and fancy yourself a redpilled aesthete which is why you're shitting up a literature board with political discourse. Can't imagine there are really any oldfags left on that board but they sure as fuck don't use 1st person syntax.

>>9561263
You're correct, I misread that, likely because it's so frequently leveled on here. But these ideas did not originate on pol, so to dismiss them because of that is no way to achieve enlightenment.

>>9561253
>romote the multicultural destruction of their nations from beautifully green and 90% white suburban spaces.

you must live in a real shithole if you see this happening...where i live the place gets more gentrified everyday, tons of rich chinese and indians pouring in to buy trump and kushner family properties, while the blacks get forced out, if the "minorities" you live with are unpleasant, maybe you should get your money up and live with people that aren't primitive thugs

>>9561274
my point is why would i care about some uneducated poor in middle america more than some educated asian in my community? just because the guy in the red state is "white"? why the fuck should i care?

>>9561271
I've never posted on reddit, either. Only been there a handful of times. You got me on not being raised on image boards, though.

It's a fact that any political zealot doesn't have a literary mind. Most of you shouldn't be allowed to post in this board.

>>9561275
I live in the epicenter of white gentrified blacklessness. Though why you think corrupt Asians spending their ill-gotten loot buying up your community commons is a good thing is beyond me, and rather sad. It's fairly easy to not live around blacks; doesn't require you praising the third parties rubbing them out.

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>>9561284
>You got me on not being raised on image boards, though
REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

What have we fucking come to that this is an acceptable admission? All the newfags in this thread NEED TO STOP FUCKING POSTING AND LURK MORE

>>9561280
Because I'm more closely related to your made up white redneck than some party bureaucrat escaping Guangzhou with 5 mil he scraped off a construction project. Have you ever been to China? These people don't share a fraction of the warmth you do for them.

>>9561311
right because some white guy who dropped out of high school and now leeches off disability while watching tv all day is more "warm" than some chinese guy with a phd

Always the same story with right-wingers. "muh race". "muh culture". How, today, do they still fail to see that these are just meaningless divisions?

>>9561305
i'd happily move to hong kong if it wasn't the most expensive real estate market on the entire planet, i don't care about race, i care about class

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>>9559004
I've been refreshing this thread for over an hour, but I'm not going to bother reading it. Seriously, this is a slapfight between two or more people who care way too fucking much and aren't saying anything of substance. Shame.

>>9561323
Yeah, because if it came down to it he would fight and die for your country, which some dumb soulless chink never would. How hard is this to understand? You don't have to give a shit about the French or something, but you should care about other white Americans

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>>9561256
For a stirner poster you sure are spooked by money

>>9561323
If only the people of the real world fit into your convenient fantasies of who they are. You don't have experience but I've actually lived in China. You're only saying what you are because you've never been around Chinese people and have probably spent most of your life in the fantasy world where all whites are lazy and all Asians have Phds. To reiterate, these Chinese people would throw you under the bus in a second.

>>9561256

>implying cold harsh cash isnt a spook also

Its just worthless paper. Money itself is a spook that is worth nothing, it only has worth because we agree that it does.

>>9561328
Go there, teach English or something, I encourage you to. The experience would teach you a lot about how this romantic notion of yours that class > race is complete bullshit.

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>>9561328
>he thinks he's "high class"

>>9561366
teaching english in asia doesn't pay shit, you aren't going to buy a fucking condo in hong kong teach english, besides, everybody in hong kong speaks english anyways

>>9561328
>i don't care about race, i care about class

I don't know if I can agree. I think I would rather live in a working class white American town than a rich town in Saudi Arabia or India.

>>9561380
>he thinks rich white people give a fuck about white hicks like him

lol keep votin' republican bro, all the asians and "multicultural" types are loving the tax cuts

>>9561390
then you're fucking stupid, every rich area has the same global bourgeois culture, it's only the poor area where the culture differs, saudi arabia shopping malls have the same shit as shopping malls in macau and long island, culture is the new religion, the rich use it to pacify the plebs

People seem to forget the "socio" in "socio-economic". There are rich whites who are culturally more aligned with the working class; that is, wealthy whites who own profitable ranches, oil fields and farms. Even if they have a lot of money they don't belong to the same social class as rich whites on Wall Street.

>>9561387
I've met several people who have taught English in Hong Kong and heard the pay isn't that bad. There's always the mainland. But the point is, they will not share your values. They don't think like you. And you have much, much less in common with the average Chinese person than you do with the average white person. The Chinese person you're sticking up for would likely laugh in your face and call you a big nosed laowai.

>>9561427
the chicks from hong kong i fucked all seemed pretty westernized, but they were wealthy students, not hookers, so maybe your experience was different

>>9561415
>george bush understands me, not like all those rich hedge fund guys from connecticut!

lol you know /lit/ is fucking over when people like this find their way here

>>9561415
It doesn't even have to be about culture, wealthy whites who own profitable ranches, oil fields and farms get royally fucked over by the democrats at nearly every opportunity; under Obama if a family inherited a $2m ranch would almost always have to sell because they couldn't afford the death taxes.

>>9561447
are people seriously posting mainstream republican talking points on /lit/ now? these isn't even some edgy alt-right nazi stuff, it's just straight up gop bullshit, ok man i'm fucking out, this is just too retarded, i can't go on

>>9561446
>reddit spacing
>non-argument
>muh /lit/
Good post.

>>9561455
>Americanocentric posting
I literally have no clue what your talking about.

>>9561435
Asian women have received a heavy dose of pro-western jewish propaganda; it's not surprising they'd think that way. But if you made hapa babies with them they'd probably turn out fucked in the head.

>>9561455
>mainstream republican talking points drive le reddit army off /lit/
Holy shit, this legitimately might be the discovery of the century.

>>9561455
I'm not that anon but to be fair the estate tax is fucking bullshit. If I came into a lot of money from a deceased relative and the government wants a significant taste I'd want them to fuck off too. Arguing the point that people deserve to keep their property just makes you out to be a black shirt commie radical. Now shut the fuck up forever this thread is so stupid.

>>9559004
Imagine having a grown son who watches anime.

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Daily reminder this is the kind of people to whom you usually reply in these threads.

>>9561570
>/leftypol/ still bumping a dead thread
Why

>>9561333
Rolling

>>9561570

no, its people who wish they were

>>9559004
that word salad you posted is a whole lot of bullshit

>right is doing serious intellectual legwork
the only fucking thing close to that they do is trying to be logical, outside of that is rote memorization of shite books dead people wrote with zero interpretation, not unlike the average moron college freshman that they bitch about all the time

>>9561327
Race I can understand but culture is very important because entire ways of life are centered around it.

>>9561652
Bravo little cuck

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>>9561124
The upperclass is fundementally international and its culture enforces sutch to be able to sustain itself. Meanwhile lower class population have sutch an extreme wide range of cultures that some peoples are unable to exist with eachother without conflict. But the upper class is slowly pushing to eleminate culture and depe culture of the lower population and replacing it with an artificial higher class produced culture of consumerism. The right is right about multiculturism but wrong about the origin of what is pushing for it. Its not cultural marxism but almost litteraly cultural capitalism wich naturally happens with the Base and superstructure theory of marx. The fact that leftists dont realise this proves how right debort was.

I'm not a hardcore righty. But I do believe that the modern left is hoping that working class whites will be demographically replaced by immigrants, so they will be irrelevant as a voting bloc.

Am I wrong? I don't think it's a conspiracy, the left openly talks about demographic change and how it will increase their chances to win future elections. I think they have no real desire to help poor whites, and just want to see them disappear.

>>9561695

no i think they genuinely believe all immigrants are some poor downtrodden good people who just need the light of modern liberalism to reach happiness.

>>9561695
As a seemingly (and assumedly on my part) unideological gentleman like yourself has inferred, it's rather obvious what is happening. The next step is realizing that it's happening in every white nation, that jewish policies have spearheaded the phenomenon, and that whites must band together in order to stop it.

>>9559955

Bernie might have killed his ideas by associating them with the Soviet Union (in the eyes of the public). He should have just said he was a populist and redefined the word. Now it will be difficult for anybody with his ideas to succeed until the Baby Boomers who hate communism stop voting, now that that idea has spread throughout the United States.

Now consider whether that was the intention, given how easily Bernie Sanders caved to the establishment.

>>9561695
The left doesn't really exist as a bloc per se, there are many different groups with many different opinions and many of those oppose the mainstream socialist parties, that have written Marx out of their official programs long ago and often opt for this multi-kulti platform.

In the case of this thread, "The Left" only exist as some ideological "other", that the alt-right and /pol/ crowd conjure up to to justify their own beliefs. It says more about them than what is really going on among socialists.

>>9561741
>The left doesn't really exist as a bloc per se
I don't know, recent elections France and Austria kinda proved otherwise.

>>9561741

I see people say this all the time, but honestly, is there anyone who is "left wing" that would be AGAINST more diversity? I don't see it. I don't see any modern socialists or communists who actually think that Western nations have the right to preserve their demographics They all seem to be on board.

>>9561744
Except Macrons reforms are loathed by socialists and the Austrian dude is member of the "Green" party, which isn't left, but rather centrist.

>>9561684
People who can afford to travel the globe tend to embrace cosmopolitanism, this isn't a new phenomena and you see it throughout history. Same thing with poverty, it breeds its own unique cultures of resentment and anti-intellectualism.

>>9561695
White people, from a class prospective, are predominantly middle class or are aspiring to be. The working class hasn't been predominantly white for a long time already.
It really depends on your country but immigrants, in Canada anyways, vote overwhelmingly conservative since the conservative party has pandered to immigrants on social issues and most immigrants aren't really into the notion of welfare

>>9559004
>is doing serious intellectual legwork to lay the foundation for the re-establishment of functioning polities worldwide.
We have functioning polities all across the Western world now. The only thing that the NRx and other alternative right types (the trumpies, the the nationalist populists, the neo-Nazis etc.) would do is ruin them. The radical left-wingers, being no better, would also ruin them.
The current state of the Western world is fuckin amazing. It's the greatest point that human civilization has ever achieved.
What we need is gradual change, gradual sustained improvement to what currently exists, not revolutionary radical change.
Anybody who lives in the West and is a healthy adult, yet insists on revolutionary change, is an imbecile and most likely a failure. People who are not failures understand that never before in history has so much opportunity existed. You can go from being poor to being a millionaire by typing things into a plastic box. This is incredible.

>>9561759
>The French left would rather elect a neoliberal
ultra-capitalist than somebody sympathetic towards socialism, small business and welfare.

>>9561757
What do you mean by "left wing", liberalism is individualistic, it comes in positive/negative forms but it's concerned firstly with the rights of individuals not nations.
Forms of collectivism require a hegemonic totalitarian culture, you can't premise communism on diversity as contradicts would exist and conflict as such.

>>9561781
Like I said, "The Left" doesn't exist anywhere, except in your head, you dolt.

The Anarchists who smashed windows and threw Molotovs during May-Day most likely didn't vote for either.

>>9559909
>Socialism = everybody chips in money to buy a power plant, and it also = everybody gets money after we sell off a power plant.
Umm... you're literally describing capitalism.

>>9561115

Nationalists are united across the world in their greater struggle, aren't they?

>>9559328
Okay, I didn't read it all but this is not something that is going on on the internet.
Le pen and that other communist candidate were the two most similar platforms on the ballot in France.
In Italy salvini (lega nord, look it up if you want) went on a tv program and called himself a "comunista padano" (comunista of course means communist while padano it's basically people f from the Italian north east, where lega nord was funded,it used to want the north east to secede from Italy but now has become an all-national right wing anti eu party)

>>9561124

What stops different nations from trading with one another, provided that there is mutual respect? I'm sure that a non-barbaric nation would do that.

>>9560553
Stirner goes on this in his chapter about ''critique'' in the ego and his own.

>>9561801
lol, if you knew anything about history you would know how alliances of foreign nationalists have always worked out historically, the second they get actual power they stab each other in the back

>>9561797
muh socialism, muh fascism, muh capitalism, muh nationalism, blah blah blah

why don't you all take a break from this meaningless pile of shit?

>>9559934
>The modern SJW left has zero argument against paedophile acceptance in the intellectual framework a ton of them subscribe to
Sure there's an argument... it would go like this: we should accept pedos as having an alternative sexual orientation, but we should keep child-fucking illegal because children can't consent. Actually, this makes perfect sense. Obviously being a pedophile doesn't make someone a bad person, it just means their wiring is different. What would make them bad is acting on the desires.
>The amount of pedo acceptance shit I've seen in recent years is ridiculous.
You must be seeking it out, then. I've seen virtually no pedo acceptance anywhere, ever.

>>9561719
>The next step is realizing that it's happening in every white nation, that jewish policies have spearheaded the phenomenon, and that whites must band together in order to stop it.

This will never happen. Hitler ensured no one can take any kind of white nationalist rhetoric seriously. Even if it means the state denying its sovereign rights and the welfare or interests of its people. Witness the EU and their daily terrorism problems.

>>9561806
because some uneducated deadbeat will start crying about "muh jerbs" if the other countries starts supplying the shit he used to make, basically exactly what we have now

>>9561170

That's how it always was since the United States since 1776. Hamilton's ideology won out over the long-term after the Civil War. Capitalism with enough self-sufficiency to guarantee a mixed economy with free entrepreneurship. Only in 20th century, and mostly outside of the United States at first, did "conservatives" begin to prefer free trade to protectionism. There's a reason why Pat Buchanan is called a paleo-conservative.

>>9561778
You have to be a special kind of idiot to buy this line of thinking. While it's true that the baby boomers are the most prosperous generation to ever live, their prosperity has come at a price. Living standards have been plummeting for decades, industry has been offshored, and young people have an insane amount of debt. What this small period of debt-induced prosperity has bought is white passivity. In nearly every measure, things are worse, not better.

>>9561806
all nations want to protect their own industries, they want to have tariffs on imports but none on their exports, without supra-national trade frameworks you get constant trade wars or real wars over who will control markets

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>>9560217
>Guessing this is a jew.
Of course you are.

>>9561816
What? Try to focus and be more eloquent when attempting to make points.

>>9560372

Reading (and doing the exercises) in SICP is no small task bro

>>9561822
>Living standards have been plummeting for decades, industry has been offshored, and young people have an insane amount of debt.

this is mostly thanks to the right, not to say sleazebags like the clintons didn't help, but the majority of the economic war against the proletariat has been from conservatives

>>9561446

that's how george bush presented himself, as if he had the background. besides, have you ever been around an investment banker these days? it's crazy

>>9560447


crimethinc.com
libcom.org
Bob Black (a bit more serious primitivist, not my style but oh well)

>>9560472
LOL. Blanket-banning usury (and therefore, essentially, capitalism) and trying to create a political order that is not based on the city and the exchange would only lead to taking civilization back 200 years or so. It's an almost Pol Pot-tier delusion that this would be a good idea.

>>9561849
exactly. i think the term the khmer rouge even used for the ppl they wanted to kill off were "new people" meaning french influenced urbanites

>>9561840
Not that anon, but can you just shut up?
Immigration, delocalization, terrorism, economical crysis from 08 that it's still a problem here, these problems exist and I don't give a shit about muh 70 years without wars.

Also, I Don't want a revolution, I just want a better future for me and for the people I care about (and no, none of them are dark skinned individuals).

>>9561810

When? It seems like the other way around. The most extreme example is when Mussolini and Hitler were at odds with each other over the issue of Austria, but then they began to gravitate together as Hitler supported the invasion of Ethiopia and the Spanish under Franco.

>>9561858
unemployment is below 5% in the usa, and stem salaries are sky high, stop being a baby

itt: delusional leftists who are still clinging to a rebel image and trying to act like the right is doing (a) nothing or (b) nothing new out of their childish need to seem more 'in-the-know' than the rest of us.

>>9561817

I'm pretty sure that we aren't the best at everything, but that's not an excuse to justify exports the assets of every industry. Too many industries are going overseas because of government-provided incentives to do it, not because the free market, without intervention, would have "decided" that it was the most prudent choice after economic inputs.

>>9561826

Which is why negotiations happen and why deals are made?

>>9561866
I'm not from the us, and if you think your country is just doing fine, or better yet, it was totally fine before strumdpf, than again, you're are not worth to be talked to

>>9561822
Sure, there are economic problems, but keep in mind that teenagers and people in their 20s exaggerate how bad they are because most of them haven't entered good career paths yet. Most of the US is still solidly middle class. Yes, it's harder for stupid people to make money than it used to be, but it's easier for smart people. What this means is that smart people will have to put up with being taxed a bit more in order to maintain the stupid people at a middle class level of existence. Nothing wrong with that. I'm willing to pay the taxes necessary. Yes, there are problems... but I find the idea that the problems are so bad that revolution is in order to be absurd. 9/10 revolutions, historically, have made things worse. Every revolution is a giant gamble. Why not just try to make things better gradually?

>>9561875
the only problem in the usa is all the dead weight white people who think they deserve a middle class lifestyle because they have a high school diploma and white skin

>>9561858
Immigration happens because foreign countries are collapsing, "delocalization" is just par the course of typical capitalist development, and Islamic terrorism is cold war blowback from financing every anti-Soviet Islamic insurrection imaginable to destabilize the region.
Immigration, delocalization and terrorism aren't going away because you created them and now you must sleep in the bed you made until there's a stable world system, people actually form real communities instead of being anti-social, and you stop funding Wahhabism (opps they got to much money to be made from being friends with the Saudis)

>>9561878
You're a slave of the capital, a corporate drone, a soulless individual and a dull mind.

Now you're gonna say "muh spooks" even though your brainlet mind is full of moral relativism.

>>9561895
>You're a slave of the capital, a corporate drone, a soulless individual and a dull mind.

watch out everybody! edgy teen comin' through!

>>9561888

there is literally nothing wrong with expecting a high standard of living in 21st century USA

>>9560749
LOL. Even if you are 100% right about cosmopolitan Jews ruling the world, I'd still much much rather have the Jews ruling the world than people like you ruling the world. This supposed Jewish-ruled period of history is pretty fuckin great. Science and technology advancing... economic prosperity like never before in history... high level of social tolerance toward freethinkers... things are good desu. If this is what Jews ruling the world is like, well, I don't really see any reason to try to get neo-Nazis to rule the world instead.

>>9561888
New left in a nutshell. Gotta sacrifice myself and people I care about to compensate your ego and your self hate

>>9561840
What you are calling the "right" is the left-controlled version of something you don't understand. There hasn't been a "right" in the US since jewish Trotskyists subverted the Birch Society.

>>9561894
>this problem is this bla bla bla late capitalism bla terrorism bla bla bla oil bla bla bush and trump bla bla bla

>>9561895
No, I'm a guy who has read extensively about history and has come to realize that most revolutions just kill a bunch of people, then end up with yet another corrupt elite in charge, without having improved anything. I also realize that we have a good thing going in the modern Western world, and that our problems are more likely to be fixed by gradual incremental improvement than by wrecking everything and trying to impose a new system.

>>9561906
>Gotta sacrifice myself and people I care

i don't give a fuck about uneducated hillbillies

>>9561901
Just saying that literature and art is something you should drop, because there are not artists that you would call "extremists" or " edgy".

>>9561928
political art is crap dude, get some taste

>>9560523
You should read his later essays, he shows that all united things have a fuckton of disunitys under the rug and that something like a global goverment is impossible with the extreme amount of conflict ideas that happen unnotiched within and outside the structure itself. Conflict between interests will always remain.

>>9561917
Ok. I don't want a violent revolution, but I'm not naive enough to think that the keeping the stutus quo it's way to take.

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>>9561917
>our problems are more likely to be fixed by gradual incremental improvement than by wrecking everything and trying to impose a new system.
woow get a load of this revisionist dork over here

>>9561878
Your reality has been manufactured, fabricated by $20 trillion that will never be paid back. It looks nice on the outside, smells real rosy, and it has the best salesmen in the world out there assuring you with a wide smile that it is nice, that everything is fine, better than its ever been, nothing to worry about ... but you are living on the downward side of a collapsing empire. It's not real.

>>9561920
Not american. But even if I was:
>I don't give a shit about uneducated nigger refugees

>>9561109
Why would anyone want to challenge capitalism? Capitalism is awesome as long as there is also a state that provides a certain level of social safety nets - which, in the West, there is.

>>9561931
>political art

Not talking about that, brainlet.

If anon has this twisted logic, he's probably a boring, stale person, thus not a good writer and definitely not an artist

>>9561945
i'm not opposed to capitalism, capitalism is fucking rad

>>9561142
>believes that Trump gives a fuck about his voters
>doesn't realize that Trump's real culture is and always has been the culture of rich people

>>9561905
See: >>9561940
Your reality is an illusion and jews want to kill you or destroy your family's lineage by telling you to make low IQ half breed mud babies.

>>9561155
The economic problems that Western proles are having aren't caused by free trade - they are caused by rising competition from the entry of Asia and various other locales into the modern global economy, and by technological advancement that has raised the minimum intellectual threshold that a person must clear to be able to do the kind of work that justifies him or her having a top-10%-of-the-world existence (which almost all Americans have). The important thing to understand is that both these factors would still exist, and would still exert their influence, even if the West adopted protectionist policies. Protectionism is not a solution. If laws force Americans to buy American-made trinkets instead of China-made trinkets, it would help the producers but hurt the consumers, for an overall gain of zero.

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>>9561955
The only people I see who are obsessed with exterminating their political and cultural enemies are far-rightists like you, plus far-leftist militants.

>>9561979
Oh god, another autismo who lives on 4chan

>>9561972
First or all, I'm not even arguing necessarily for protectionism. But you're fundamentally wrong about the effects of free trade being inevitable. Shipping factories and industry to China was a policy, not some magic invisible hand wave of the gods of economy. All of these things are policies made by people; that's what those who blame / praise this abstract entity commonly referred to as "the system" don't understand. And the same goes for political philosophies; white people could make any political philosophy work, even communism. The reason why white people *couldn't* make communism work was because it was political instrument imposed on them by jews.

>>9561979
Why are you making stuff up? I haven't advocated exterminating anyone; I merely want to send people back to the countries they belong to. My enemies, however, want to use those people as a bludgeon against me. So who's really in the wrong here?

>>9562026
>The reason why white people *couldn't* make communism work was because it was political instrument imposed on them by jews

all of the fucking bolsheviks were jews, my god man are you retarded, the whole reason the west let hitler rise to power and rearm was because they thought he would block the jewish revolution from sweeping europe, then after ww2 ended the brits gave palestine to the jews and they all converted to nationalism from communism and that was the end of it

>>9562039
I think you misinterpreted that statement.

>>9562050
oh my bad i thought you were trying to blame the failure of communism on jews lol

>>9559934
>The modern SJW left has zero argument against paedophile acceptance in the intellectual framework a ton of them subscribe to
LE CULTURAL MARXISM! XXDDDD

>Leddit is a pedo loving nexus
This whole post is just a sad attempt at virtue signalling.

>>9562034
>I merely want to send people back to the countries they belong to.
Alright, then convince enough voters to vote for politicians who will put tougher immigration laws in place. Further than that, you shouldn't go. Even if I wanted to deport non-whites, let's say, the problem is that this could only be done by making the government authoritarian, and that would be a solution that is worse than the problem ever was.

>>9559965
>If it was based entirely off browsing the internet I would believe the left was legitimately going to be successful in getting pedo acceptance
But that's what I meant here >>9559080
because the new left tried that 40-50 years ago. Rightists are remixing Foucault's ideas about mental illness and sexuality.

>what if the child consents though?!??!

Leftists these days have passed that.

>>9562054
I was just making the rhetorical point that because of our inherent ingenuity white people could make any political system work, even communism, which is saying a lot since communism was a terrible and destructive jew-imposed system. I mean, I wouldn't prefer it, but ultimately the system is secondary to people running it.

>>9562079
I wish it were that simple, but the situation is a lot more complex than you're making it out to be and political solutions are not always feasible. There's a dishonest media establishment lying to the people and protecting its entrenched tribal brethren in the ruling class, inter alia. Uprooting those people may take extra-political action.

damn they just killed travis kalanick's mom

>>9562111
>There's a dishonest media establishment

the nytimes has totally lost touch with reality, it was always an imperialist cia mouthpiece, but now it's just become unhinged

>>9561917
> and that our problems are more likely to be fixed by gradual incremental improvement than by wrecking everything and trying to impose a new system.

This works if you have a general consensus on what needs improvement, namely an elite that is willing to give into relinquish some of their political and economic power, but we currently don't have anything close to that. In the US at least, there are too many interest groups who want too many wildly different things, often in direct contradiction. And the political parties in charge, along with the elite institutions that back them (corporations, banks, wealthy donors, media institutions, and so on) are happy to throw money behind the party that they think will work best for them.

Case in point: immigration. What would immigration "reform" consist of? A mass amnesty, along with increased yearly limits, or even open borders? Or would it look like a wall on the Mexican border, expedited deportations, and lower legal limits along with the end of family chain migration? Because different sectors of the population want each of these, so any reform will be highly contested, hence we stay in the current awkward status quo we have been in for 15+ years.

This is why, while I agree that incremental reform along Burkean lines can work, it isn't always the best method and can end up exacerbating the problem.

>>9561178
The left is more sophisticated in their propaganda, as you put it, because of the news media/press and Hollywood/entertainment complexes. There are now more viable right-wing alternatives to the left's media hegemony than any previous time, Breitbart and Fox News come to mind.
Hollywood/pop culture is the next step.
TV, popular music, films, franchises.
If multiple multi-million dollar films of every possible genre were produced affirming right-wing rather than left/multicultural values, the tone of the narrative would drastically shift.
Imagine, like, a Sam Hyde type of right winger could do with a bit of adult supervision, a 30mm dollar budget, and nationwide distribution. Cutting edge pop culture with a right-wing slant, mocking, SJWs, etc., is the next step.
The left isn't even funny anymore--comedy will swing right before the rest of pop culture because nothing is funnier than mocking the sanctimonious.

>>9562111
>Uprooting those people may take extra-political action.
Hmm... and what might you mean by that?

>>9562266
Smoking them out of NY, DC, and LA then sending them to Israel.

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>>9562164
>The left is more sophisticated in their propaganda
I actually think this isn't true, left-wing propaganda is hilariously bad, Its so unsubtle and fake even they cringe at it.

>>9562281
I'd much rather have them here in the US than you. They might be manipulative, but if they are, they've manipulated us into an unprecedented time of prosperity. You, on the other hand, seem to be in favor of kicking US citizens out, a step that would require a grotesque augmentation of US government power. And government, once it uses power, rarely relinquishes it.

>>9562159
Well, right now Americans on average/as a whole obviously want a whole bunch of illegal Hispanic immigrants here. Americans don't necessarily want this consciously, but they want it through their actions. They go to the store and buy cheap fruit. They hire the cheap construction company that employs the illegals. Etc. If America really wanted to get rid of the illegals it would simply stop supporting the businesses that employ them. But it doesn't. It would rather have the increased crime and the competition for low wage jobs, and in exchange get the cheap labor.

>>9561343
>implying money is a spook and not a useful means of imposing my will on others
Being rich is the easiest way to be a good Stirnerite. Doubly so in global capitalism.

>>9562144
I completely agree with the generic statement about the dishonest media establishment, but even though I always see people complaining about the nytimes in particular, it's never struck me as so bad. Obviously, the opeds are ridiculous, but besides that, could you explain your specific dislike of the jew york times?

>>9562315
I actually think the late night comedy propaganda is quite sophisticated. Of course, if you're not used to it, it is disgusting and immediately turns you off, but when you are spoonfed it slowly it does a magnificent job of priming you for the correct reactions to situations, even those not specifically covered in the shows