does Gravity's Rainbow condemn homosexual, fetishistic,

>>9465132

I wouldn't say so. But I wouldn't be able to say what the fuck the book is about in general, when it comes to its themes. So don't mind me. :D

Definitely not. Certainly doesn't advocate hedonism though.

>>9465132
no. You want it to, though, don't you?

definetely not. sex is used as a means of control and a tool of sadism in GR, but it's also bound up with love and everything positive that comes with it. this is sort of a copout answer but it's sort of a stupid question: the book is neutral towards sex.

in his post GR works it's almost a rule of thumb that sexual deviants are homosexuals are the good guys.

Pudding fucking dies of e.coli. Funny as hell.
Also generally disgusting that a dude eats shit, and laxative induced shit at that. Not only is this disgusting, but a man named fucking Pudding is doing this.

>>9465419
yeah, because of his PTSD and survivor's guilt
it's his repentance, made erotic by katje's embodiment of the angel of death -all of which catered to him by Pointsman and his men as a means of controlling Pudding. he also stops taking his ecoli pills against orders as a means of suicide.

it's not just some wacky dude who likes to eat poopoo

>>9465613
You're really being a boring fag here mate. I'm just sitting around trying to have a smoke with my friends and you come in and start screaming about cancer. Fuck off.

Captain Blicero is the nexus of sexual deviancy in GR, and this extends to his rocket. Which is, of course, what the book is about. Blicero also happens to be a bad guy, so make of that what you will.

It's been 6-7 years since I read it, so I might be missing some details, but I seem to remember associating all the sexual craziness with the war and its degrading effect on people.

Yes

if /lit/ nigh-universally likes an author they are, without fail, either a Catholic, a crypto-Catholic, or a proto-Catholic

>>9465662
Slothrop is also a sexual deviant, and he's the personification of the counter-force, so there's also that

>>9465836
try again faggot, Tommy P is an unabashed leftie Protestant

>>9465924
I disagree. Slothrop is the rallying point for the counter-force but he remains pretty much self serving and amoral/apolitical the whole time. He is the common man whom the counterforce claims as their own.

>>9465930
His wiki says he was raised a Catholic

i think pynch is saying deviants hold all the power and that sexual normies are cursed to wage a futile campaign of PIV agaisnt them

>>9465836
>implying we don't also like Pantheon-worshiping Greeks, Zen Buddhists, and a nutcase who worships a puppet

>>9465935
True, he's hardly a paragon of virtue, but he is a counterpoint to Blicero, a disruptive presence in the Zone and his sexual escapades aren't condemned

>>9465132
mindless pleasures

>>9465935
everything in the book is caused by itself

>>9466008
All Proto-Catholics

>>9465924
but youre supposed to like slothrop

>>9465930
hes irish catholic and was practicing for a while at cornell

>>9465662
i never saw Blicero as a bad guy or Pointsman, the only explicitly bad guy was Marvy imo which was a very caricaturesque character

>>9467920
Blicero put his sex slave in a rocket and Pointsman manipulated an old man into eating shit. Both are pretty explicitly bad.

>>9465132
>condemn
>>9465662
>also happens to be a bad guy
>>9465924
>personification of the counter-force
>>9466015
>a paragon of virtue
>>9467098
>supposed to like
>>9467920
>explicitly bad
God. I though at least /lit/ would have more common sense than that.

>>9467966
here is your (YOU)!

>>9467966
wow man how postmodern you must be like really smart and relativist

>>9467920
>>9467948
blicero is definetely a villain but pointsman who is initially made out to be one is slowly humanized throughout the book. he's a victim of time, like pudding. an obsolete pavlovian in a statistician's world who has seen his friends killed one by one by the war. in the end he is relegated to a desk job and becomes the arbitrary target of the counterforce. they fall into the same trap as the reader in seeing him like a big bad. (though he's obviously not a great guy eiyther)

>>9467966
fucking retard

What was the point about the homosexual nature of Gottfried and Blicero's first meeting? Is it just a Herero reference?

>>9468084
Yeah I did feel a bit sorry for Pointsman at the end there, and liked him as a character. And desu that sucker Marvy deserved it

>>9469516
>And desu that sucker Marvy deserved it

ye

If I read this book and enjoy it will I turn into a pomo/pseud?

>>9469529
nope

If anything you'll turn into a degenerate

>>9469535
>>9469529
this, reading Gravity's Rainbow made me from a good God fearing conservative boy and literature lover into a degenerate anarchist & drug using hippie

>>9469868
Just as intended

>>9469868
the recognitions did that to me.

>>9469868
well actually it also sort of helped instill the fear of God in me but I suppose YMMV as reddit says

lots of good S/M shit in it though

>>9467098
I hated Slothrop and was glad his mind ended up spread thin across the zone.

>>9469976
Well geez that's kinda mean

>>9465419
>>9465613

This is what people consider genius literature

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>>9470008

>>9466008
>implying he's not an atheist who's using the puppet as a metaphor for the concept of a god as an idea to mock theists
You fucking pleb cunt

>>9469976
he got 'lost in the noise,' retard

slothrop lives!

>>9470174

Brings a man to tears

>>9469504
DUDE S&M AS A METAPHOR LMAO

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Lads, I'm concerned with the amount of kiddie fucking that goes on in this book, also the whole incest thing with Ilse
If she was conceived in 1930 after Franz saw the Alpdrücken and he started fucking her on her second visit to Peenemünde, she was 8 or 9 yrs old
Also, Slothrop thinks that "he loves little girls too much", before fucking Bianca, who he describes as"11 or 12, she's a knockout allright."
Is this the Great American Novel I had heard of?

>>9473299
the authentic successor to Joyce's Ulysses

>>9473299
honestly the pedophilia in pynchon does concern me a little ... what was the point? was he just a perv or was this considered somehow edgy and subversive or revealing in the 60s/70s

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>>9473473
Who is the child he's walking with?
Why doesn't he want to be photographed?
Has he done something wrong?
Did he "do" the Kenosha Kid?

>>9473299
Pökler never fucked her that was just a runaway fantasy before he accepted her for his child.

>>9473473
It's there as a Slothropian variable to the reader. Slowly beginning to be able to betray the people around him and regular values. He also paints Rocketman as a likeable dude then has him do something questionable. And like, she was hot and wanted to fuck in the Zone. And the Zone. And other stuff

>>9473577
This is the obvious answer but I'm not sure I buy it. For a novel that provides exhaustive commentary on every little thing it encounters it seems strange how neutral it approaches pedophilia. There are also numerous adult man young girl relationships across V., Lot 49, and probably some of his later novels that i am forgetting

>>9465132
all we know for sure is that thomas pynchon is a furry

what's tommy's fursona everyone i'm taking a pool

>>9473701
I gave like five reasons, just didn't expand. I said that Bianca was also hot as fuck. But I also doubt Pynch is trying to invite you to consider that fucking eleven year olds is alright, and in comparison to extenuating circumstances and her wanting it. Maybe it's a Nabokov hat tip. B had her vagine pounded into a vagoo long before good old Tyrone (not black) got to her.
But we could also be a little more narrow with this and focus on viz. T. Slothrop banging B's mom, B's mum's sexual deviances, B's mum's odd relationship with B.
It's something we could talk about all day and there are probably ten more things you could come up with if you tried hard enough. There are less real answers in big books because their purview is bloated to such a degree.
I don't like the anti-hero establishment any more than you, but it's the kickoff.

>>9473718
Dolphin

>>9473473
>was this considered somehow edgy and subversive or revealing in the 60s/70s
p much dis

great book though

Slothrop says Bianca looked 11 or 12. Doesn't mean she actually was. She's actually around 16

>>9473855
No.

>>9473876
what? we have all the dates. She was impregnated in some goat mask orgy after the shooting of a film. The year is given.

>>9473876
>yuk yuk slothrop says she's 12 but she's actually 16 yuk yuk did that PYNCH?!?!
What did he mean by this?

>>9473896
We know Ilse is a baby in 1930, conceived after Franz was watched Alpdrucken, so Bianca must be older than Ilse as she was conceived during its filming

>>9473718
It's the pig, his obsession is no secret

>>9473944
>>9473876
>>9473934
Bloody hell he got me good, the trickster, old Tommy Ruggles