In three hundred years, Batman will be appreciated by scholars

>>9448422
>In three hundred years, Batman will be appreciated by scholars as the 20th century's answer to Odysseus.
I bet you he won't

Batman is unironically a great character. So is Superman. Not all comic book superheroes are, but there are a few.

It's interesting that so many writers have written for these characters, but over time there's developed a consensus as to what their "true character" is. It's like tales passed from teller to teller, only within the bounds of copyright.

You are probably right

>>9448422
we don't have more than 6-7 years on this planet. there may not be any ice in the arctic this september, all the feedbacks in the arctic are accelerating feedbacks

>>9448438
>superheroes
>man with no super powers...

Batman is a heroic character but not a superhero. Unless being rich and marry sue'd in every circumstance beyond all fathomable comprehension is a "super" power.

>>9448443

The problem with comic books and other similar media is that they are just retelling tropes and stories that have already been told an infinite number of times. It's not really to Batman's credit if some guy with a decent but derivative talent for writing channels a few decent tropes or classic stories and makes Batman into Odysseus Lite for a few issues.

It's not moving art forward. It's the death of art. It's a downward funnel, just taking existing things and churning it until it fits into a derivative product designed to be just titillating enough to sell, without being obnoxious by being difficult to understand or forcing the reader to think.

>>9448466
Gee, there are alot of places with alot of people that haven't had glacier ice in hundreds of thousands of years. They are doing just fine. China and India are gonna have a population die off. That's too bad. Europe, North America, and Australia will have climate fluctuations and stronger forces reducing birthrate and probably economic trouble realigning. Africa and South America will have fluctuations amd realignment of weather and climate trends, disasters like everywhere bit lets face it, not like things can get much worse for the southern races. We will survive. Not all of us but humanity will adapt just our ancestors have to every climate adjustment over the last million years. Life can survive no ice, and it can survive ice ages. Dont let the sky hit you on its way down. There will be catastrophic climate change, and humanity will survive and our legends will too.

>>9448466
>implying we're not just going to geoengineer our way out of it

>>9448504
> retelling tropes and stories
>death of art

you are literally so dumb

>>9448466
The hyper intelligent cephalopods who will eventually evolve to fill our evolutionary niche when we go extinct will not be able to decipher our written languages, but they will be able to interpret fossilized Batman comic trapped in amber. Thus Batman will be central to comparative human studies, and books like, Batman: The Invention of the Human and Batman: Poem Unlimited will be all the rage.

>>9448523
Making contentless kneejerk responses to half-understood posts on 4chan may make you feel better about yourself for a second or two, but your time would be better spent reading until you do understand things.

>>9448517
Not the same anon, but unless we radically simplify our lives, we are in deep shit as a species. China and India are making great strides in controlling emissions, but the US under Trump is refusing to join them. 90% of fuel comes from hydrocarbon sources, I.e. oil, gas, coal, propane. Unless we get that down to zero in the next ten years, we're looking at a Mad Max future.

>>9448522
No. Every geoengineering action would have unforeseen consequences that would make things worse. The most promising form of geoengineering is taking co2 out of the earth and burning it in appropriate rock formations, but even then, we are talking about a trillion tons of carbon. That is no small feat.

what about the Punisher OP? The Punisher goes harder than Batman, ok.

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>>9448504
>death of art
Maybe overstating it JUST a little much. I don't disagree that distilling common troupes and ancient mythology isn't what it is. But I will disagree that the process you describe is bad or not beneficial in some ways. The process of boiling down a character many times, retold again again with different flair and emphasis untill certain immutable traits emerge over generations of storytelling is exactly how the oral tradition delivered us our great legends and troupes. That process is what creates comprehensive mythology that stands up to scrutiny and can be so relatable across generations and mediums. Indulging in mythology as a mode of story telling is not the death of art. It is the beginning because it starts fresh again with every listener, reader, and new generation that inherits the stories and legends. They can retell it faithfully, they can challenge that character with new trouble and personal crisis, they can even kill of the character and move on. Its a fresh start every generation, every mind that takes in the story. And every once in a while a generation.comes up with a new type of hero, not unlike the familiar, but made relevant again. A perennial rebirth of art.

>>9448550
Anon, we're not going to do that and you know it. We're better off trying to engineer our way out of the problem, it's more realistic than actually expecting anyone in a late capitalism world to live more simply.

>>9448550
I haven't driven a car since the 90s, fuck off hypocritical hippy, fuck global warming and fuck saudi arabia

>>9448517
And yes, the poorest nations of the world will suffer/are already suffering the brunt of climate change, but we Americans are in deep shit. Droughts have already devastated California and the Grain Belt. The heat and cold will be much more volatile: earlier springs will mean farmers will plant earlier, but later extreme frost bites could kill of an early planting, like the late season blizzard the US experienced this year. Cold air from the Aractic and hot, moist air from the Gulf of Mexico will mean extreme weather in the grain belt. If you think Monsanto can develop plants that can survive klller frost, tornadoes, hail and can be grown without water, then we will be just fine. Otherwise, we'd better start addressing climate change.

>>9448422
Get some rest, /co/; you have Batman re-telling 768 to pull tomorrow

>>9448598
dude, fossil fuels will be made obsolete by capitalist innovators long before climate change causes any real problems

>>9448577
We're going to have to refocus our societies to the bare minimum: nutritious, mostly plant based diets; public transit in cities and electric or hydrogen cars in the country and suburbs; healthcare; education; science funding and making the infrastructure climate resistant. We're dead if we spend the vast majority of our dwindling resources on bullshit like the military or keeping the parasitical financial industry on life support.

>>9448590
Good for you, but the structural problems that prevent action on climate change transcend your personal lifestyle choices.

>>9448550
Hi. China and India are making great strides at bringing down thier emissions, but that is relative to massive over population and pollution growth they are going to be contributing. The United States will never be able to out pollute China and India ever again. Sheer population growth ensures that. By the time China and India have even come back.down to similar position per person levels after thier massive consumer ramp up, the United States will be mostly off hydrocarbons to a great extent. There is nothing the United States can do, even dropping to zero emissions by this next Wednesday that will make a dent in the damage China and India will do, not to mention Africa as thier populations explode and consumerism ramps up to 1st world levels in those places in the next fifty years. That's why ice disappearing from the Himalayas is the beat case scenario and dry rivers on both sides of that mountain and massive population reductions is a great balancing force pressure that will reduce global emissions. It may be Mad Max in alot of places for a short while but that's what we have seen historically during climate collapses. Realignment is necessary.

>>9448632
they also transcend your personal "activism", so stop congratulating yourself for being a chicken little asshole, i never talk about the environment irl, but i do smirk silently to myself when some vegetarian goes on about the environment for 20 minutes and then gets in their suv to drive out to their mcmansion in the surbubs, oh but you voted for jill stein, will woohoo for you bro, why don't you march around in circles too

>>9448623
Like I said, it's not going to happen, not without a radical transformation of life in the Western world, and even in the world at large. People would have to put a grander, better ethos, a charitable ethos, a kind ethos, at the forefront of their lives on a massive scale in order to enact those changes. You might say we'd have to become religious again.

>>9448640
dude, Bangladesh has half the population of the entire USA stuffed into a country the size of Texas, and you want to scold Americans, who don't even have enough kids to replace their population on the environment? gtfo with that shit

>>9448620
No. we've already warmed the planet by 1 degree C. When carbon enters the atmosphere, it takes 40 years to gather enough energy to warm the planet. The climate is already under massive stress, and we are literally dealing with the carbon that was pumped out in the 70s. This means if we stop all emissions tomorrow, the planet will warm for at least 40 years, not to mentiona whopping 63% of emissions released since the beginning of the Industrial Revolution have been released in the last 25 years, the effects of which will not begin to take hold until the 2050s. We're already playing Russian Roulette with our survival.

>>9448598
I didn't say there would not be consequences, I was telling other an on it would not mean extinction. The severe weather and climate change ate the best possible motivators for change in systematic behavior. Yes, death and destruction will drive consumer forces and government regulations so that change is made. People are not going to change things until they see the need. Yes it will be painful, all lessons of global significant usually are. I was simply pointing out that humanity will survive. Maybe we loose a few billion people, but that will be all for the better as we will emerge smarter and more capable than before with much more manageable levels of need and output.

>>9448655
I wasn't scolding the US. I was pointing out the U.S. Is.not responsible for what happens in the future because we are doing our part and making changes and keeping our population down. Our pollution will be small drops in the bucket compared to china and India over the next 50-100 years. I was criticizing china and India, not the US.

>>9448422
I could see him being the Robin hood of our time, but since when are comic books even remotely respected?

Can any non-nerd remember or quote a piece of comic dialogue?

Batman was a ten year old boy billionaire who was raised by a butler and grew up to fight purse snatchers. He is afraid of bats, or something, and he doesn't like guys who do crime.

Pretty municipal for a hero, if you ask me. You may as well write a heroic epic about a mallcop.

>>9448686
>Can any non-nerd remember or quote a piece of comic dialogue?
I'm the Goddamn Batman

>>9448640
It is not population per se but the rate of resource consumption that matters. China, India and Africa may have massive populations, but they don't pollute nearly as much as the US per capita. What is more, it isn't even ALL Americans who are making this problem, but the richest Americans. Worldwide, an extremely disproportionate level of emissions are caused by the richest 10% of the global population. Thus the environmental crisis is intimately bound with the crisis of global wealth inequality.

>>9448686
i used to collect comics as a nerdy ass teen, and i always enjoyed the art, but i can't even remember any stories ... people need to realize that things can be fun and even valuable without being "serious art", comics, like anime, are not Art, but that doesn't mean they are bad, they are what they are

Word.
I really enjoyed the Ulysses and Batman when i was a kid.

>>9448648
Again. This isn't about you or me per se, but an entire system that is endangering our survival. Yes, it will require personal lifestyle changes, but on a more fundamental level it will require changes in how the global economy functions. It sounds like an insurmountable challenge, but the consequences of not acting may very well lead to extinction.

>>9448654
Even if the western world went to zero emissions in 10 years, China, India and Africa will not be able to do that for 50-100 years. Nothing the west does now can stop what is going to be driven by eastern and African population and consumer growth. We had better start looking at building cities and infrastructure that can survive the climate realignment because we are not going to be able to stop the change. Focusing on stopping it is a silly religion. Its too late. Lets learn from our failure and build a stronger more resilient humanity with who ever is left. I am all for radical adjustment to emissions including but not limited to 100% nuclear power for a hundred or so years. But that's not gonna happen and it doesn't matter how many solar panels we build its not gonna offset the growth in the developing world. Not even a little bit. Batten down the hatches and start building the levees because the climate will be changing. Lets make the best of this opportunity to become leaner and stronger as a species.

>>9448693
That is at today's levels of consumption. In a few decades every Chinese and Indian is gonna demand the level of consumer luxury we enjoy today. Then thier emissions in 30 years will match our emissions today per person but with 10x number of people you see that right? China and India are mot just gonna stay poor and agrarian forever?

>>9448693
>China, India and Africa may have massive populations, but they don't pollute nearly as much as the US per capita.
i bet you'd never support oppressing those countries back into the stone age though

>>9448667
How do you know that it won't lead to extinction? We are now living in an environment that has never existed during the 250,000 years or so humans have roamed the earth. We are literally living through an unprecedented time in human history. It may not lead to extinction, but it may. You say thing won't change until things get bad, but that isn't an ironclad law of nature, that depends on what political decisions are made going forward.

>>9448711
again, people will innovate their way out of it, not even "on purpose" but just someone will eventually come up with a way more efficient way to move a vehicle than having a bunch of little explosions going off constantly, it's not like some animal rights activist was mad about conditions of horses so they invented the combustion engine and made the car, henry ford just happened to be an autistic protestant who went full ubermensch with it and here we are, the combustion engine did increase standard of living for billions of people, but it we could have done a better job containing sprawl etc. but eventually these problems will just be obsolete, remember acid rain? i haven't heard about that in ages, where is the hole in ozone? anyone seen it lately? the problem with being 12 is you haven't lived long enough to see problems solved by engineering, live a few more decades ok bro

>>9448703
Good points.

>>9448735
yeah this is a perverse argument, oh the 2 billion people in africa don't pollute much because they have to walk 2 hours to the local well to get water every day, isn't that wonderful? no i say fuck that, someone get these people a fucking truck holy shit

>>9448476
>being a pedantic fuck about children's cartoons
He flies around in a cape fighting crime with sidekicks, supervillains, vehicles, and leagues of other dudes in costumes, he is a superhero

>>9448422

I always figured that after the apocolypse that Star Wars would become a new religion. Religious wars would fought over the validity of any content past the original trilogy.

>>9448735
Jesus, what a loaded question. You might as well ask me if I'm still beating my wife.

>>9448759
I'm just saying, those 4 billion or so people all want first-world living standards, and we all know how much first-worlders consume? What are you willing to do about it?

>>9448759
it's more like saying "oh muslim countries that don't allow women to be educated are so progressive because women aren't stuck with expensive student loans" thats more what you're saying with this "poverty is good for brown people because it means they won't pollute and put my waterfront condo underwater"

>>9448686
Who is worthy flies
Who flies is worthy
Who doesn't fly isn't worthy

Only the true (post-)Yugoslavian kids will get this.

>since when are comic books even remotely respected?
Since forever in civilized counties that didn't have capeshit. In USA since Watchmen and Maus.

>>9448736
Well humans have lived through alot of climate change in 250k years, not as much as we may see soon, but our near human ancestors have survived millions of years changing conditions. They didn't have the technological desires we have and the conveniences we are accustomed to bit biology thier needs were similar and they found a way to get the food and water they needed. Did they likely have die offs and extinction of some branches here and there, yes of course. But they didn't give up and found a way to survive. We will have climate change, we will likely have global conflict and die offs of several billion, but humans will survive. Governments and societies will adapt or be replaced in time. Its not the end of the world. It may be the end of everything else we know bit the world will go on. We will make food, and find water, and continue to have sex and babies. Even if global population drops to 100k, that's still enough genetic diversity to have no long term changes in human evolutionary trajectory.

>>9448731
Those will be problems for China and India to confront. We have a responsibility to lead the world in not wrecking the planet. There are always treaties we can make with other nations to draw down emissions and conserve resources. The US has gotten so used to violating our treaties, we've forgotten that diplomacy works if all parties are sincere and provisions are enforced.

>>9448775
We've lived through climate change before, but only under extreme, once in 500000 million year events will the climate change as quickly as it is currently changing. Because so much energy is necessary to change the climate on a global scale, the climate under normal circumstances changes very slowly, slowly enough for animals to evolve and/or migrate. Generally, long term shifts in climate take tens or hundreds of thousand of years. Changing the climate by 2 to 12 degrees C (which is what we are likely doing to do) in 300 years is beyond what most animals can deal with. That is a blink of an eye in evolutionary and geological terms. 50% of animals are likely to go extinct by 2050. This isn't a problem we can just pass off to our grandchildren. The longer we delay, the more dangerous things become.

>>9448773
I don't get it. Where does this expression come from?

>>9448686
I'm Batman

t. Batman

>>9448817
well, since the ice age gave us white people, and the desertification of the near east gave us urbanization, i say bring on the climate change, let's see what amazing progress it will bring this time!

>>9448768
You are putting words into my mouth. I have been advocating for a substantial cut in the consumption of the richest 10% globally, as well as a radical restructuring of a global economy that caters to the richest 10% of the world 's population. Any radical restructuring of the global economy will see the basic needs of everyone met.

>>9448842
what makes you think after the basic needs of everyone is met they won't just breed themselves back into poverty? this is why the chinese instituted the one child policy because after the land reform the standard of living went up only long enough for the peasants to fuck themselves back into poverty

>>9448836
Yeah, we'lol make all sorts of technological advances. ISIS-like armies of bandits will figure out all sorts of ingenious ways of attaching 50mm machine guns to the bed of Toyota trucks

>>9448773
>Since forever in civilized counties that didn't have capeshit.
I suppose that's true. But comics that get respect tend to be atmospheric and not heroic, or resemble slow-paced, thoughtful novels.

Capeshit is too limited by its origins. Batman doesn't use a gun because many American kids could get their hands on a gun without much difficulty. He doesn't kill because he's technically a vigilante and is generally depicted leaving criminals tied up for the cops to jail - meaning he doesn't really claim authority the way that a hero would. He devotes his life to stopping crime, but this is a historically very odd way of thinking. Odysseus, for example, would probably prefer to clean out stables of horse dung than run around preventing purse snatchings. It's basically a Boyscout's idea of heroism: helping old ladies cross the street, except in a costume. Capeshit is fundamentally juvenile.

Comics in general - not necessarily. But I don't see them becoming an epic. The Iliad and the Odyssey were almost the Bible of ancient Greece. The stories of the heroes were fixed and well known. Batman has a different life story every few years and no fixed events, because he is mostly a brand that is continually milked for new comic books.

>>9448854
Jesus Christ, maybe because people who have stable living conditions are more in control of making rational decisions about family size. These are human being, not a colony of bread mold.

>>9448856
yes, climate change caused isis

everyone likes to believe bernie could have won, but come on, this shit is ridiculous

>>9448524
>Future species find comic books and consider them as what average humans were capable off
>Make future species feel inconsequential in comparison that a such a great race died off

We Wuz Dinosaurs N Shit

>>9448866
it has nothing to do with stable living conditions, it had to do with women's rights. redistributing the clintons wealth to the global south isn't suddenly going to make islam and hinduism disappear.

>>9448857
Hmmm...maybe in Batman's contradictions to ancient epics, we are putting our finger on something quintessentially American: reliance on an unstable negative identity; a forever shifting and groundless historical memory, etc.

>>9448422
>start reading a normal /lit/ thread
>suddenly lots of extremely spooky posts about imminent disaster

A-am I supposed to get ready for it? Should I start packing canned food' guns and medicines in my basement?

>>9448869
Actually, yes. Climate change was an underlying cause of the Syrian civil war. Google it.

>>9448872
Top Kek!

>>9448891
so climate changed caused the CIA to start an insurgency in Syria? wow

>>9448876
The religion of neoliberalism and extreme materialism is far more destructive than Hinduism and Islam. The idea that infinite grow is possible on a finite planet is madness.

>>9448889
the left is getting increasingly ridiculous with ever passing day, hardcore marxists are still sensible, but i mean the liberal left social democrat types, they just can't make sense of anything any more and they're grasping at extremely kookier straws

>>9448889
4chan has your best interests at heart.

>>9448869
>>9448891
>>9448905
After a quick google search, I didn't find Bernie Sanders saying it but I did find Martin O'Malley saying it, and an article says his source was this: http://www.pnas.org/content/112/11/3241.full
Which has some reasonable sources. Just some food for thought, I have yet to fully read it and cross check everything it cites

>>9448925
so why isn't there an insurgency in california? they also had a major drought for the last several years

>>9448905
It was the prefect shitstorm of man made and environmental factors. And it is the opening act of what a 2-12 degree C warmer world will look like.
https://news.vice.com/article/the-drought-that-preceded-syrias-civil-war-was-likely-the-worst-in-900-years

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>>9448817
Its not a problem our grandchildren will be able to escape. And some of them will survive. Even your worst projection puts 50% animal species extinction, there are still resources for food. Even of we have to grind up insects and process them into wafers that's hat we will do. We have enough intelligence to figure out what to do. We always have. I like our chances. You seem to think that if we do the right things we can somehow stop this. Its too late. I am all for doing as much as we can to limit the damage, including 100% nuclear energy dependence if necessary. But the ball is already set in motion, we can slow it a little but its not just going to stop not in the next 100 years at least. Humanity is not willing to do what it takes. We may get lucky and see a mass die off by natural disaster reduce the global population down to less than a billion to 100 million. If we prioritize and save our best minds to start rebuilding and they build a sustainable new global civilization then its all for the best really. I would love to convert the west to 100% sustainability, and see the developing world embrace the same things in 15 years. Even if that best case happens, we are still going to have climate change, conflict and die offs. Its going to happen mate. We didn't find the mistakes we were making to late. We will lose species, we will loose whole cities. We may come to loose almost everything we recognize about the current global economic and political order. But humans will continue on. Its going to be ok in the long run. Our grandchildren will pay for our grandfather oversight. We are stuck in the middle wishing we can make the world perfect but we cant. Humans can withstand 12 C of variability. We will find new food sources, and we will desalinate the water we need. As long as we don't dip below 100k breeding pairs we will be able to get back to a better, stronger, safer, more sustainable future in a dozen generations. They wont even be able to imagine what it was like before with so many people crowding the planet and dumping thier filth everywhere. It will be like a bad dream to them. And hopefully we will have engrained into our future institutions protections and lessons so it doesn't happen again. And even if it does, I hope those future humans will be wise enough to plant our genetic seed in as many other planets as possible so no one climate can threaten our survival. There is not escape friend. We just have to hope for the best, love our neighbors through the suffering and believe in humanity and the indomitable, brave, generous and ingenious humans who we are today raising. Lets not instill in them a sense of doom and nihilism. Lets be honest with them and tell them that we made a mistake and the future rests on those shoulders and in their hearts. They will suffer, and they will overcome, and we will give them everything we can to help them. That's why we have superheroes and legends. For when things get bad, we can believe

>>9448933
I mean, aside from California being part of a almost continent spanning country that has a metric fuckton of trade and stable infrastructure? No clue.
Even by their definition of "drought" isn't really a drought like Syria's. There's is "oh fuck we're running low on water, better not water all the yards every week and get some water from another state"
Not "Oh fuck there's no water, everyone is dying from dehydration, please god"

>>9448957
>Its not a problem our grandchildren will be able to escape.

woah hold up, you aren't intending to have grandchildren are you? do u realize giving birth to white males is incredibly hurtful to minority and underrepresented communities? you need to take a second look at abortion my friend, for the sake of righting historical wrongs, for justice

>>9448966
I've been alive for over three decades, never in that time as there been mass deaths to due to to dehydration. get real you fucking moron.

>>9448933
>why didn't this factor affect a massive state within the country with the single most successful first world economy in the world the same way it affected an impoverished third world desert shithole ruled by a dictator
Gee I dunno bud, real head-scratcher

>>9448422
Jeeze, why do they make his muscles so ridiculously defined, as if he's a roided-up bodybuilder? Real-life superathletes look muscular, but they don't look THAT cut. And why would his clothing be so tight that it would clearly delineate every striation of muscle?

>>9448979
I was trying to be over the top but I can see why that would sound like I was being factual, just saying that drought could feasibly play a giant part in an already unstable region becoming MORE unstable
The fuck you think would happen when a shithole is missing it's basic needs to survive

>>9448991
the missing needs to survive happened after the war started, if you want the government to keep providing you with electricity and water, don't try to violently overthrow it maybe

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>>9448968
Ha. Already have two sons. I will have one or two more if necessary. I will teach them that people who try and blame them for the worlds problems are really just asking for you to save them. What's the point of being white if you don't see yourself as pic related?

>>9448957
Your logic is mushy and muddleheaded.

So we both acknowledge climate change will be bad, but you want to let our grandchildren take care of the problem. They will be poorer and under more distress than we are, but you want them to develop the technologies and the economies to cope with climate change. You are trying to weasel out of taking responsibility for the problems we are creating by cloaking your maudlin words with a bizarre cloak of philanthropy: "woe is me! we are drunk on oil and environmental degradation but surely you will pick up after your dad and get a job and support the family, son." You are twisted.

>>9449001
>They will be poorer and under more distress than we are

you're the one who wants everyone to go back to a third world standard of living so we can all be poor but enjoy low insurance rates on our beach front property

>>9448422
That's not Link.

>>9448957
P.s. Nuclear is way less economical than solar. By 2020, solar will be cost competitive with oil. Nuclear is already obsolete, so don't pretend like it will be part of the future energy portfolio. Nuclear is being pushed because it gives a high rate of return to the few corporations that are in the game (e.g. Westinghouse; Bechtel, etc.) Anyone can grind up some silicone and make solar panels. Solar is far more democratic than nuclear.

>>9448979
You are wrong. Let this be a lesson to you: climate change is moving very swiftly and what used to be done without thinking about it, like staying hydrated, will be difficult in the future.

http://www.bbc.com/earth/story/20170418-climate-change-is-turning-dehydration-into-a-deadly-disease

>>9448422
this is what americans believe

you really are thick

>>9448550
same anon

>>9448623
you talk like a numale on out who buys a survival kit from REI for 55USD

>>9449029
>I choose to have faith in statements from total strangers, but I am really super smart, believe me

>>9449029
>At this stage, that heat stress and dehydration might be causing this problem is still a hypothesis,” Johnson admits.

now link me to the evidence that there is incidence of chronic kidney disease in syria leading people overthrow the government in hope of... getting free dialysis or something...

weak. you think el salvador is the only place that people work in hot dry conditions? do you suppose the volcanic activity in the region might have something to do with it? come with some real shit not flimsy cases of kidney disease.

dehydration deaths come from diarrhea which comes from unclean drinking water due to underdeveloped infrastructure...so rather than turning the industrialized nations into impoverished dumps to save your beach house, it would be better to invest in these countries and help them develop their economy...you can't argue we would all be better of in poverty then link to articles about problems in poverty countries, it's not supporting your argument, you're arguing poverty is better than climate change remember

>>9449001
Wrong. I am saying that the climate change is going to happen. We must do everything we can to lessen the consequences. We can begin the process of creating better technology and more resilient and sustainable cities. We can begin developing the strategies for helping them deal with what is comming instead of pretending that if we just do everything perfectly here on out everything will be ok. We wont be able to do everything perfectly, and we will see some climate change. It is still our responsibility to do everything in our power to learn the consequences. I literally never said otherwise. You keep pretending that I am arguing for doing nothing. The exact opposite is true. I am arguing that we should both fight climate change with all our resources but we should also find solutions to help the next several generations weather the storms that are coming. Please stop with the ludicrous straw man. I'm not trying to pass anything down the line to our grandchildren except a reason to keep going when it gets bad and the tools to do so. I wish I could believe that our generation can fix this bit the clock is already mostly run out for us. Our generation is diving right back into the same mistakes. The global consciousness is not strong enough at this point to convince all the people of the world to give up oil and coal. I wish it was. Please be realistic. I'm not saying "Oh well lets just keep using oil" neither are most Americans. But most Indian, Chinese, and Africans are. I wish I knew a way to convince them to by pass the excesses we have enjoyed for the last 50 years but they just now are getting a taste and they want the cars and the houses and the rest. We don't have to pretend like nothing bad is going to happen. I wish it wasn't. But looking ay history and the the future, it looks like bad things will happen. We must start today developing the strategies to counteract the climate change that does happen. Not just hope it doesn't if everyone alive starts doing the right thing right now. We can have some effect on the severity of climate change but its not just going to be nothing because we hope so. I have said repeatedly that we must do everything we can to lessen the impacts and give the future generations the tools to make better decisions and survive what does come. Never in this thread did I say we should do nothing. I am simply arguing that humanity can survive whatever comes. There is nothing evil about planning for the best and preparing for the worst. If I could figure out what to do with nuclear waste and then snap my finger and convert the whole world to nuclear tomorrow I would do it. But i cant. So I am simply arguing that we can keep building better solar, better wind and tidal, develop global power storage, develop cities that wont be below sea level, develop desalinozation, develop sustainable food sources and infrastructure that will survive the coming storms and destruction of climate change.

>>9449060
>colinpowell.jpg

u expect me to read all that shit by you?

>>9449005
Ummm...yeah they will be poorer than we are because so much of our economy depends on having a stable climate.

And my point is that a future economy must provide high quality basic necessities to all: healthcare, education, transportation,food and shelter. Look at America today. How many people can honestly say they get adequate healthcare, education, etc. Maybe half the population, if that. Meanwhile the richest among us live in opulence far beyond what any pre-modern emperor could have imagined. Any stable future has to eliminate this ability of the global elites to exploit the planet without constraint.

>>9449067
>And my point is that a future economy must provide high quality basic necessities to all: healthcare, education, transportation,food and shelter.

why must it?

>>9449065
If that post is too long, how did you end up on a board about books?

>>9449075
there'd a big difference between books and blogs by teenage hippies

>>9449001
There are two people replying to you. Only one of them is an idiot who keeps firing off one liners.

>>9449078
naomi klein tier environmental "concern" doesn't warrant more than one line snark, deal with it

>>9449077
There is a big difference between people who can't read 3000 characters and people who have something to contribute to this board. I'm twice your age son, lets not start with the stereotypes. Your the one who doesn't like lots of words.

>>9448504
>implying retelling of tropes somehow diminishes other peoples ability to make their own art
You underestimate contrarians and how far they will go to make things outlandish in order to call it "ART"
People will always try new things so art can't die, especially from something as dumb as saying comic books and media kill art.

>>9449084
this is 4chan, if you want to write longform 2000s era blog bullshit take it to medium

>>9448422
Batman will be remembered like the Penny dreadfuls of the 19th century.

>>9449098
I bet "serious" comics won't be remembered at all, though. Watchmen, Robert Crumb's stuff, nobody's going to care about that shit beyond cultural anthropology.

>>9449094
So the board limit is 3000 characters and you have what rational argument for why we are not supposed to use them? Other than you dont like it?

If we are not supposed to wrote that much why is the limit set so high? For laughs?

Are you that guy on the highway going 50 mph when the limit is set at 75 and getting mad when someone passes you?

>>9449057
>beach house
Right, because climate change is primarily a 1st world issue. Yeah, climate change will likely destroy the Eastern seaboard of the US, but it is also going to put the entire nation of Bangladesh underwater.

Second, it's not like Central Americans always had totally potable water and now they don't. Their water was always substandard. That's not different, but what is different is the extreme heat caused by climate change. And there are all sorts of human health problems caused by climate change, from dehydration, to the spread of diseases and parasites into areas that used to be too cold for them to survive. It is a well known and well documented problem. These are also problems happening right now.

http://therealnews.com/t2/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=767&Itemid=74&jumival=18963

https://theintercept.com/2017/02/17/as-senate-rushes-to-install-scott-pruitt-at-epa-exiled-climate-scientists-survey-the-damage/

>>9448504
If this was truly the "death" of art as you say, all art would have been dead long ago.

Art and most all creative fields have a lot of derivative content, and most everything created has elements of things which have existed before it. This even carries over into hard sciences, such as Leibniz figuring out much of calculus before Newton.

Everything contains elements of everything else, and sometimes interesting incremental leaps forward are made. This is nothing to lament.

No, he won't. Odysseus has a canon. Batman is just a perpetuation of an capitalist icon like most superheroes that adheres to nothing. You wouldn't remember him if it hadn't been for Batman Begins and the DCAU toons. In fact after the last movie he was in most people already don't want to remember him. Without a canon nothing lasts. Not religion, not science, not even symbols of something more than just a man.

>>9449104
>implying Cerebus won't be studied for centuries.

>>9449130
>Right, because climate change is primarily a 1st world issue.

ppl in the 1st world never cared about anyone before, but now that suffering is being caused by climate change instead of religious fanaticism or communism we have to do something about it?

>>9449104
Watchmen will still be remembered because of its contemporary value as a screenshot into the mid-1980's recovering from the Cold War and just before the 90's, an illustrated interpretation of Revelations, and being avant-garde in its employ of exclusive-to-medium techniques in every issue.

>>9449060
Wrong wrong wrong.

The reality is that all of the dark people whom you disparage, the Chinese, Africans and Indians are much more urgent about tackling climate change than we Americans are. China and India are world leaders in solar and Africais seeing a leapfrog from poor energy infrastructure to solar energy, often times piecemeal and makeshift solar installations at the street and neighborhood and village level than at the municipal and regional level. But the transition is happening.

Again, the problem is in good part OUR problem. Look at Trump, who refuses to acknowledge climate change. In fact he is promising to accelerate fossil fuel extraction, even the extraction of coal, which isn't even cost effective anymore without heavy government subsidies. We are the problem. The world needs US to change. You claim you want to do everything to mitigate climate change, but you are simply passing the buck, blaming the rest of the world when we are the ones causing the bulk of the pollution.

>>9449072
Because the current economy denies basic services to the most needy while allowing the wealthy to destroy the environment. Why.should the wealthy few decide the fate of the many, not just of people living today but of all generations to come. Our political system must protect the planet, while protecting the needs and rights of everyone.

>>9449157
Ummm, yeah.

We've spent a couple hours talking about how climate change is going to really fuck thing up.

>>9448561
>worse

Than what? What's worse than the worst-case scenarios of climate change? As others in this thread have said, even if we stopped emitting greenhouse gases right now, a certain amount of climate change is already baked in due to emissions from an earlier time.

We're past "fuck it." We passed it in the 90s.
So I say we say "fuck it" and try whatever we can.

>>9449134
Interesting how both Batman and Iron Man got really popular just as the military industrial complex was amassing power.

>>9449191
You mean during WWII?

>>9449178
Again worst case scanario is extinction. It isn't hard to see how climate change could precipitate a nuclear war as we fight for diminishing resources. Hell, we're almost coming to blows with Russia over Ukraine and Syria, and with China over N. Korea. We aren't even in an existential fight over resources, and Trump wants to start WWIII. Think what happens when India and China fight over the remaining glaciers of the Himalayas.

>>9449207
Yeah. WWII and into the Cold War.

>>9449210
anything bad that every happens is now due to climate change, you're stupid, blaming climate change for every war is like blaming the jews for everything bad

>>9449178
Your post doesn't make sense. Are you saying, "fuck it. Let's live off the land while we can?" If not, what does, ""Fuck it, let's do what we can" mean?

>>9449220
Jews. Out of nowhere you bring up Jews.

Look, obviously I'm talking about a self-reinforcing cycle: we already have a military that is threatening China and Russia; our military allows us to extract resources around the world to enrich a few corporations; using one of these resources, fossil fuels, fucks up the environment; this makes us use our military to pursue fewer and fewer resources; this brings us into conflict with other great powers; we fight with them and don't start preparing for climate change, all the while climate change is becoming more and more dangerous. The cycle repeats again and again. See how political, military, economic and environmental factors all reinforce this fatal dynamic?

>>9449267
I must also add that we the rabble in the street must be the ones to demand that our leaders take this problem seriously. It sounds like idealistic hippie dippy bullshit, until you realize that leaders of corporations will let the planet burn tomorrow if it means meeting sales quotas today. Washington is so in love with war that climate change is not only ignored, it is actively suppressed as a serious issue. It is up to us to force them to change.

>>9449163
The US is only 14% of the carbon emissions and falling. But ok, its largely all our fault.

>>9449300
Veteran journalist Paul Jay gives what may be humanity's epitaph if we are not careful:

"And there is some underlying feeling here that I think we have sort of at somewhat of a subconscious level, which is, you kind of feel like if it's really that bad, even the capitalists are going to want to fix it. You know they're not going to want to be so irrational, so crazy that they would let this stuff happen, without doing something about it. And they've got the resources to do the scientific investigation, whether it's geo-engineering, or whether it's some kind of mitigation, or even if it is, you know, some kind of carbon, you know, reducing carbon use. Would they really let someone threaten their own society that's making them wealthy? So, you kind of feel like, you know, even they'll do something about it, in a timely enough fashion. And then you start to realize, well, no. They're not going to. They're not going to threaten who has power and how business is done here. They will let the planet go to hell because as I said they'll be okay. Their families will be okay. Or they're just going to ignore it and put it out there. Out of mind, out of sight -- or is it the other way, out of sight, out of mind? And they're not going to do it."

http://therealnews.com/t2/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=767&Itemid=74&jumival=18529

>>9449234
No, I was saying, "Fuck it, let's do geoengineering." As far as I'm concerned, at this point we have nothing to lose.

>>9449300
I guess the United States should just pull out of global engagement with the world and let China and Russia do as they like with their neighbors. You know like annex by force half of them and bull doze coral reefs for military bases. Great, that timeline looks really bright. Let me guess, just like pollution, global military conflict is entirely the fault of the United States. Poor Russia and China are the most outstanding defenders of liberty and human rights and environmental protection the U.S. Should just disappear.

>>9449300
Nobody's going to do it without a change of heart. You say "People need to do this," but they won't do it unless they truly want to, and for that to happen, their souls will need to be changed.

The nihilistic materialism that undergirds the Western psyche at this time will need to change. Otherwise, things will stay the same as they've always been. Your calls to action need a spiritual dimension to be effective.

>>9449339
Again, it is a two fold problem.

First, we use way more per capita than comparable nations.

Second, even among Americans, the wealthiest Americans are responsible for the bulk of the emissions.

If we were to radically cut back emissions made by the wealthy, that would go a long way to curbing climate change.

Third, a lot of the emissions China makes is through industrial output making plastic crap that ends up in the US. So a reduction in Consumption by the US elites would help to level off emissions in China.

>>9449351
Uhhh, yeah we have lots to lose. Didn't you watch the last episode of "Dinosaurs"?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=voXw6RfWuZE

>>9449340
This is what I do t get about how this is a U.S. Problem and the developing world isn't going to keep polluting. China is already double the U.S. In Co2 emissions. If there is little hope that the U.S. Government will be able to control our capitalists from reducing emissions what makes you think the Chinese or Ethiopian or Bangladeshi businessmen will be so much more ethical than U.S. Businesses over the next 50 years? Will they not want to get thier fortunes at all costs too? Have you read about how business works in India? They are just going to be so much less corrupt than our businesses and government? I don't see that happening. We can and should do everything to get to zero emissions. But what makes you think that they will when you dont even think we can?

>>9449356
Kek what are you even talking about dude? This guy clearly isn't an apologist for the axis of evil or whatever you're trying to say.

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>>9448983
>why do they make his muscles so ridiculously defined
so he looks strong and heroic

> Real-life superathletes look muscular, but they don't look THAT cut
he's not an athlete

>And why would his clothing be so tight that it would clearly delineate every striation of muscle?
because it makes him look strong

>>9449376
>way more per capita than comparable nations.

That's today's numbers. That's because those nations are not fully developed. You think everyone I china is gonna say "that's ok, we don't want cars? The numbers say thier auto buying is booming. You say they will just not want houses and consumer goods and every last amenity we enjoy? They will want just as much as we have now. I hope they can make their factories so much more efficient but the numbers show that they haven't really made actual strides towards that. Every consumer good that the U.S. Person stops buying will be sold elsewhere all over the world. They are not just gonna say "oh that's ok, we don't want iPhones and washing machines and two cars and a house in the sprawling suburb. We like our tent in refugee camp fine! We have to cut back to reduce carbon emissions."

The projections of carbon emission growth show that the developing world will indeed become an increasingly larger share and total emissions will rise even if the U.S. Goes to zero. Its just math and historical forces. We can force all the green tech on them we can but they want thier piece of the destructive pie just like our businessmen.

>>9449356
Dude, don't give me that.

China and Russia are both authoritarian regimes, but so is the US. We might not be as bad as them, but as long as the Patriot Act is the law, the Bill of Rights is effectively suspended.

Like the U.K., the US is effectively an island, meaning we can send our army around the world, which we have been doing since a WWII. Sure, China and Russia would love to have global empires like the US, but they are continental powers, meaning they need to keep their armies at home to defend against their neighbors. Ironically, China and Russia spend a good deal of their military resources watching each other. Also, as authoritarian regimes, their armies can't go abroad because there would be massive revolts at home. This puts limits on either one replicating America's accomplishment of becoming the sole global hegemon.

As a final though, if you care about coral reefs, I suggest you do a google search of Henoko Bay in Okinawa, Japan. Somebody is destroying a 4 thousand year old coral ecosystem, and it ain't the Chinese or Putin.

On the one hand, I want to be an autist and complain about how wildly off-topic this thread has veered.

On the other hand, the OP topic wasn't all that good to begin with.

>>9448422
>answer to Odysseus.
There was a question to begin with?

For anyone wanting to stay current on climate change news, Truthout runs a monthly review of major climate stories. The situation is very dire, which is why calling for a radical reconfiguration of the entire global economy may be extreme, but not when you consider the consequences of inaction.

http://www.truth-out.org/news/item/22521-climate-disruption-dispatches-with-dahr-jamail

>>9449819
It still won't be enough if things are that dire. We need instant, dramatic action. We need geoengineering.

>>9449007
I actually think Link and LoZ in general has a lot of potential to analyze the Hero's Journey and mankind's fascination with the role of the 'hero' in fiction but Nintendo will never realize that sort of potential.

On topic, Batman and Superman are both great characters, actually. I agree.

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"There was a time above... A time before...There were perfect things. Diamond absolutes. But things fall...Things on Earth... And what falls is fallen.In the dream they took me to the light. A beautiful lie."

>>9448743
People will innovate, but who will be the beneficiaries? Will technology be distributed equally or will they remain in the hands of the well heeled and the well armed? I think an honest look at contemporary society will answer this question.

>>9448743
>henry ford invented cars
>ozone problem solved itself
>everything will be alrite mkay, kiddo
Please, don't reproduce.

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>>9448823