Hard determinism, soft determinism or libertarian free will?

We don't know

>>9376989
Cop out. Are you saying that determinism isn't a poor thesis

>believes free will may exist
>even considers libertarianism a valid ideology and not just a facet of bourgeois hegemony
>posts epic alt right irony man

literature is not for you. might I suggest a video game?

>>9377002
>uses cultural Marxist buzzwords
>doesn't bother apprehending the questions

Bitch please

we are animals that have tricked ourselves into believing agency, and are put into an environment that has been enabled by the genetic adaptation to the ancient natural world. everything is genetic, the civilization you live in, the culture - they are the expressions of the genes of the people before you who chose to modify the existing gene-manifestations of those that came before them

>>9377011
>cultural marxist

kys

>>9377012
>tricked ourselves into believing agency
so actions don't exist?

>>9377012
Fantastic assertion. I could equally pull out of my ass Satre's argument that we are terrified of freedom so we invent determinism.

Gimme a reason to accept that all our actions are necessary

>>9377020
they are computations of biochemistry

>>9377011
Go back

>>9377025
Because we couldn't have done otherwise.

>>9377002
>>9377028
Hey, reddit!

>>9377026
>using an outdated 18th century mechanical concept of causal laws

Modern biology are constructed more as probabilistic than mechanical. There is the probability of results happening contrary to prediction

>>9377034
/r/TheDonald is the most popular subreddit

guess who pushed all those epic /pol/ memes like cuck and ARE YOU KIDDING ME

guess which website gave PJW an audience

guess which website is the #1 place for MDE discussion

the reddit alien light is literally on your head right now

>>9377044
Hola reddito.

>>9377047
bye reddit

>>9377049
Hail, redditus!

>>9377054
bye reddit

>>9376981
Fatalism

>>9377059
hey reddit

>>9377044
>most popular

with bots and Breitbart unpaid interns/shills

>>9377012
>doesn't understand evolution

Tell me, where do genes come from and why are they the way they are? Could it be ...ENVIRONMENTAL ADAPTATION?!?! Fucking Nazi e.e

>>9377026
>actions are computations of biochemistry
1. what does that mean?
2. why believe it?
3. is this a denial of the existence of actions or not?

>>9376999
No, not at all. I'm saying we don't know. I'm having a hard time imagining if we could know. I think that would be the more interesting discussion. Certainly the more cerebral one out of the two.

>>9377002
>not understanding that libertarianism when referring to free will is completely different from the political ideology

read a book sometime you fucking brainlet

>>9376981
1. logical determinism is true and compatible with free will (just because you will in fact do something in the future does not mean you will not do it freely)
2. causal determinism doesn't add anything relevant to free will that isn't already present in logical determinism
3. therefore free will is compatible with causal determinism
4. absent arguments from determinism there is no real reason to doubt free will
5. therefore accept free will

>>937714
I just realised that's what he was referring to. What a tard

>>9377152
I agree with you on compatablism.
With regards to 4: are you suggesting that the thesis of determinism might be false. In other words, if determinism is true we are free because of comparabilism, but determinism may not be true anyway?

Determinism, but I'm my atoms, so I'm still making the decisions, because the atoms definitely aren't someone else.

>>9377177
yeah, if by "determinism" you mean causal determinism

there is no free will

the universe is one entity attempting to perfect itself, on a fixed path, forever

all lifeforms = infinite monkey theorem

**determinism**

>>9377206
>I'm
let me stop you right there

File: 1477127959101.gif (2MB, 320x384px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 320x384px

>>9377206
>Determinism, but I'm

>>9376981
Either there's a previous event that determined a later one
or the cause/reason is random.

Soft, hard, compatibilism, free will, and what else are just bullshit terms for pseudo intellectuals

>>9377296
>muh determined or random
prove it or gtfo you harrisite pseud

>>9376981
Determinism has been rooted out by contemporary physics. Well, physical determinism at the very least. Our models simply can not function with a single possible future, or past.

What we need to do is to map our desired outcome and apply placebo until reality is like that.
Hence we have free will.

>>9377312
Prove what? Your question doesn't make sense. What else can an event be besides determined or random? Where should the cause be emerged from?

>>9377312
name an alternative bucko

"nothing is inevitable until it happens"

>>9377348
>>9377350
>durrrrrhh it has to be this way cus i cant think of anothur way xDDDD not taht ive relly tried cus that would be philosphy and thats' just mental masterbaition <3 x8D (;;;
every time
literally. every. fucking. time.
this is the modus operandi of naive scientism

nevermind that ISAAC NEWTON HIMSELF, supposedly contributing to the foundation of the "scientific method" which is the religious confession of scientism, famously wrote against the method of "'Tis thus because not otherwise"
nevermind that he considered even a deductive proof to the effect that no alternatives were available insufficient for proper scientific method
now we are at the point where if an uneducated moron has read sam harris and doesn't bother to think of any alternatives to any of his views, that constitutes all the reason he needs to militate for them with lifelong dogmatism while considering himself scientifically enlightened

>Prove what?
prove that fucking determination and randomness are the only two options
give one actual fucking positive argument why that is the absolute inevitable logical dichotomy that we are stuck with forever
do that or shut the fuck up about philosophy for the rest of your miserable life, you fucking massive pseud

>>9377401
do you know how neurons work, friend?

>>9377405
what is your argument

>>9377428
how about you tell me about this alternative to randomness or determinism instead of autistically screeching (unless the hilarious wall of buttmad above isn't you)

>>9377441
it's time to go back to /r/atheism, pseud

>>9376981
Hume solved this in his first enquiry. There is no problem of free will, just quibbling over poor defined concepts.

(Actually that was the only section in the book that confused me. pls someone explain.)

>>9377462
For Hume the misunderstanding is what is meant by liberty.
Hume is a soft determinist because he thinks that liberty means "a power of acting or not acting according to the determinations of the will"

We have this liberty unless coerced "in chains". So for Hume (logical) determinism is compatable with liberty

>>9377401
Self-determination

>>9377479
Continued.
For a more detailed argument about this point of liberty I'd look to Ayer's "freedom and necessity" you can probably find it online

>>9376981
Indeterminism + compatibilism.

Pragmatic probabilism.

>>9377479
>>9377486
Thank you very much!