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Cross-posting this from >>>/his/2634926 We're

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Cross-posting this from >>>/his/2634926

We're trying to think of the earliest written source that unambiguously features someone being introspective. What can you think of?

>According to Jaynes, ancient people in the bicameral state of mind would have experienced the world in a manner that has some similarities to that of a schizophrenic.

>Rather than making conscious evaluations in novel or unexpected situations, the person would hallucinate a voice or "god" giving admonitory advice or commands and obey without question: one would not be at all conscious of one's own thought processes per se.

>Jaynes built a case for this hypothesis that human brains existed in a bicameral state until as recently as 3000 years ago by citing evidence from many diverse sources including historical literature.

>In the Iliad and sections of the Old Testament no mention is made of any kind of cognitive processes such as introspection, and there is no apparent indication that the writers were self-aware. Rather, the bicameral individual was guided by mental commands believed to be issued by external "gods". This is exemplified not only in the commands given to characters in ancient epics but also the very muses of Greek mythology which "sang" the poems: the ancients literally heard muses as the direct source of their music and poetry.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bicameralism_(psychology)
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>>9363008
i'm actually centering my novel around a possible conspiracy that involves the church trying to restore people's mind's to the bicameral state, essentially using Jaynes' theory as mind control, thus gaining more influence in the spiritually diminished world, as people can suddenly 'hear' God.
>>
two words, baby:

enuma elish

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/En%C3%BBma_Eli%C5%A1
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>>9363035
cool idea, bro!

you could call it "Snow Crash".
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>>9363008
AHAHAHAHAHAHAH
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>>9363099
stop posting that fugly tranny
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>>9363008
This really is a great, highly readable book. I picked it up at a bookfair when I was 19 and began reading it immediately (having heard nothing about it) and couldn't stop. Somewhere in the Introduction was a notice that he was preparing to release his general psych theories (the copyright date on the book was 1989, or 1990, I believe) and I began to look for it but could find nothing because he had died before having fully prepared it. He was at Princeton.

Has anyone out there since read any of his other stuff? If so, is it worth looking into?
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>>9363008
This might interest you: "A quantitative philology of introspection"
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3449397/
>...Using a statistical measure of semantic similarity, we identify a single “arrow of time” in the Old and New Testaments of the Bible, and a more complex non-monotonic dynamics in the Greco-Roman tradition reflecting the rise and fall of the respective societies. A comparable analysis of the twentieth century cultural record shows a steady increase in the incidence of introspective topics, punctuated by abrupt declines during and preceding the First and Second World Wars. Our results show that (a) it is possible to devise a consistent metric to quantify the history of a high-level concept such as introspection, cementing the path for a new quantitative philology and (b) to the extent that it is captured in the cultural record, the increased ability of human thought for self-reflection that the Axial Age brought about is still heavily determined by societal contingencies beyond the orality-literacy nexus.

they should of broken up the Old Testament to put it into a more realistic historical chronology though, "From Babylon to Jerusalem: The Genesis of the Old Testament" by Paul Arnest is a good overview of the nature of jingoistic Jewish historic revisionism
https://sites.google.com/site/thecampaignerunbound/home/babylon-to-jerusalem-the-genesis-of-the-old-testament
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>>9363008
After Enkidu dies, Gilgamesh broods over his own death, and goes on a search for eternal life, only to discover his own mortality.

Earliest written work and we have an existential crisis. Not to mention that even in Iliad, Odysseus clearly shows cunning, as well as mercy, and his character carries over into the Odyssey.
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>>9363484
Top quality post have a (you)
>>
Antihuman Materialist garbage.
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>>9363484
And yet he's the most god besotted, or favored. Odysseus, i.e.
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>>9363484

Jaynes's early humans weren't automatons.
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>>9363787
>it's garbage because it doesn't agree with my preconceptions
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counsicousness is a meme
>>
Believing that the supernatural is real and gods/spirits actually did commune with man makes more sense.
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>>9364936
how so?
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>>9363008
>unambiguously features someone being introspective

introspection is ambiguous, and, if you're searching through only written sources, you're denying the significance of burial mounds, which is foolish. how about getting down on all fours and sniffing out the unknown god who has just entered into your olfactory zone dawg. howl like enkidue if you want, but didn't they just find another version of that story lately. Might of been a just-so story I head off-hand. You can never be sure whether they speak of the symbol of the beast, or s/he just hated math as much as fish every friday. I like to think that plant neurology would be fun happy times in the heavenly hallways of the logos, but I'd also give credit where credit is due.
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