Is George R.R. Martin Book Series, A Song of Ice and Fire Really

It's only so 'realistic' in a sense that it emulates (not always that well) the political dynamics of family dynasties. A lot of medieval fantasy tends not to place such emphasis on the scheming.

Actually I don't know, I feel like there'd be a lesser known fantasy author who's already done what GRRM did but better.

>>9289037
Then why do people clamor on about it

>>9289072
there isn't necessarily any principle in place that places those who "deserve" attention in the eyes of the mass public

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>>9289030
It's realistic in terms of "Muh horrors of war" and "muh knights were murderous assholes". Much more so then most fantasy. Also the characters are mainly shades of gray with few outright good or evil characters.

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I've read the first couple of books and nothing about them struck me as particularly realistic. If GRRM's books have a reputation for realism then it's probably because of redditors trying to elevate yet another one of their plebby obsessions.

>>9289093
imo A Game of Throne and A Clash of Kings were very solid. But with the others, I feel somewhere along the line though he adopted too much of the very thing he wanted to try and subvert: that generic heroic fantasy trope usage (ie prophecised hero kings, dragons, magic, supernatural gods etc) which was lacking from his early books (which in turn made them feel refreshing).

>>9289030
"But Tolkien doesn’t ask the question: What was Aragorn’s tax policy? Did he maintain a standing army? What did he do in times of flood and famine? And what about all these orcs? By the end of the war, Sauron is gone but all of the orcs aren’t gone – they’re in the mountains. Did Aragorn pursue a policy of systematic genocide and kill them? Even the little baby orcs, in their little orc cradles?" t. George "Raging Retard" Martin

>>9289155
Did he follow his own advice? Or was it just a one time mention like all those criticize?

>>9289030
Really realistic depictions of shitting

>>9289223
Yeah he did to be fair.

>>9289030
It is not "realistic". It is just the most famous example of the "low-fantasy" genre. LOTR obviously being the most famous example of "high-fantasy".

>>9289268
Yeah perhaps a better word would be grounded.

>>9289155
he wasnt critisizing tolkien, he was saying how his work was different and making light of it, ya raging retard

>>9289037
>fantasy author who's already done what GRRM did but better.

nope, not at the time

>>9289155
>>9289223
>>9289303
>>9289303
The real question is, does any of that shit make a good story? But the answer is no

>>9289317
Shit. I would love to hear a group of people trying to improve their nation by debating one another. Instead I get Powerplays and other shit.

>>9289309
Mordant's Need achieved what early ASOIAF achieved without needing to be so grim-dark AND it had a satisfying conclusion.

>>9289320
>I would love to hear a group of people trying to improve their nation by debating one another.

Then become a politician.

>>9289317
sure it did, for the first 3 books.

it's the prose that one could criticize, which is mostly ok, sometimes good, and sometimes garbage

>>9289326
Opinions, but yours is wrong. It's so obviously trying not to be typical fantasy, and after 3 (as you claim) pointless books falls right into archetypal fantasy to actually set something in motion.

Martin is a hack, but I guess he's the king of the hacks in modern day fantasy.

raddit as hell thread OP

>>9289037
>I feel like there'd be a lesser known fantasy author who's already done what GRRM did but better
Zelazny did it before him and did it much better. He was also his mentor.

>>9289324
Such discussion could prove insightful

Plebs don't know what realistic means. Look at video games, where realism means turning saturation down as much as possible and giving everything a brown/grey tint. Reality is stranger than fiction.

>>9289339
He's not just trying to "not be the typical fantasy" he's actually trying to not be fantasy at all. He's trying to be historical fiction in a semi-fantasy setting, or something. It's a pointless variation. He even said he only added the dragons after being convinced.

>>9289072
Because is got an HBO show.
I'm dead serious. The first book came out in like, 95 or some shit. Nobody gave a shit until about what, three years ago?

>>9290545
That's confusing

>>9289085
>Muh shades of grey GoT characters
Ramsay is an outright torturing lunatic with no redeemable qualities. Cersei and joffrey are both outright evil and sadistic. There are also pure good characters, aka most of the Starks and some others. Not to mention the literally supernatural malevolent force of the white walkers. There are clearly good and evil characters in GoT.

>>9289030
In the sense people are assholes and screw each other? Duh.

>>9289072
>Then why do people clamor on about it

Because of the show.

It's a fun set of books, but the normalfag clamour about it is singlehandedly because of the HBO series.

>>9289785
You've never watched Congress in session, have you?

>>9289072
HBO TV show
rape

>>9289030
Nah. It's gritty and dark, and somehow people now associate this with realism. The thing is, that dark is all he has, he's completely missing poetry, legends and life as it was from the late middle ages and early renaissance where his books are roughly set. In his work, everyone is out there plotting against eachother, when you actually need to look very hard to find similair plots in history. Likewise you won't find fortunes of lineages changing so fast and so drastically as they do in his work. One lost battle, one death in his book can completely annihilate houses and erases them from action. That never happened. Even civil wars were drawn out, while you had major wars that lasted for decades, and were never resolved quickly and decisively.

>>9290545
That's no only confusing. That's blatant stupidity. He's got magic, and he's got zombies, and he's got knights, and he's got dragons. Ergo, he is fantasy. There is no discussion about that.

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>GoT audience

>>9291908
Can you imagine how bad that room must have smelled?

I've never read a single GOT book or seen a single episode of the show.

Feels good.

>>9291693
I said there aren't many, also Cersei isn't pure evil, she loves her children.

>>9292178
congrats?

>>9292205
Thanks.

Being a smug hipster douche around my "friends" who fawn over that GOT shit is quite satisfying.

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>>9292210
Look at this guy who has such low quality friends they unironically watch GOT.

>>9292184
So Hitler isn't pure evil then? Face it, grey doesn't exit. People are ether evil or good at their base, there is no middle ground.

>>9292225
Themistocles is an example.

>>9292184
as an extension of herself.

>>9289037
You're thinking Zelazny.

No.

>>9289072
HBO and teh sex.

Sunset found her squatting in the grass, groaning. Every stool was looser than the one before, and smelled fouler. By the time the moon came up she was shitting brown water. The more she drank, the more she shat, but the more she shat, the thirstier she grew, and her thirst sent her crawling to the stream to suck up more water.

>Sunset found her squatting in the grass, groaning. Every stool was looser than the one before, and smelled fouler. By the time the moon came up she was shitting brown water. The more she drank, the more she shat, but the more she shat, the thirstier she grew, and her thirst sent her crawling to the stream to suck up more water.

Sunset found her squatting in the grass, groaning. Every stool was looser than the one before, and smelled fouler. By the time the moon came up she was shitting brown water. The more she drank, the more she shat, but the more she shat, the thirstier she grew, and her thirst sent her crawling to the stream to suck up more water.

>Sunset found her squatting in the grass, groaning. Every stool was looser than the one before, and smelled fouler. By the time the moon came up she was shitting brown water. The more she drank, the more she shat, but the more she shat, the thirstier she grew, and her thirst sent her crawling to the stream to suck up more water.

>>9292787
That's one example, even the greatest writers have some weak moments

>>9289155

Tbh the orc genocide question is pretty good

Plus like didn't Umbar used to be a Gondorian fiefdom? They rebelled or some shit right? And what about the Easterlings? Tolkien already said the Rohirrim hunted the Dunlendings for fun so he doesn't shy away from bad stuff.

>>9292225
>So Hitler isn't pure evil then?
No? Are you fucking retarded?

>>9289030
The world gives off a gritty realism feel because of its portrayal of magic. Magic is more of a subtle, mysterious force that underlay everything, and doesn't often manifest visibly or tangibly.

>>9292225
>So Hitler isn't pure evil then?
Hahahahahahahahahahaha

>>9292884
Basically no real person was pure evil.

>>9292917
You're pure evil.

>>9292178
>shopping in my local bookstore in a rich area
>some kid comes in
>there are first edition, signed copies of books selling for thousands of dollars
>kid nags his mom to buy him a 1st edition GoT book to brag to his friends
>she buys it

I stopped reading after an incest scene and a pedo interracial scene appeared in the first hundred pages.

>>9292037
I've been to two M:tG pre-releases. I think I know that smell.

>>9291901
But muh realism