>"If you're doing it [masturbation] 20 times a day;

>>9287916
i'm gonna die? look who's talking

This is basically what I think when people say "just google it retard". Well, maybe I want to talk to someone ;-;

>>9287916
the idea that virtual reality is unreal and therefore illegitimate is regressive luddism

>>9287916
To an extent yes.

He's overreacting though. At least in terms of what we have going on right now. In the future God knows how bad it will get.

/pol/sters like to say that the west will crumble due to a lack of belief in itself and a submission to more willful ideologies. I think one of the biggest threats is a future where nobody bothers to breed. The state might need to restrict access to pornography at some point. I don't know of the future will have 90% of the population hooked up on VR sex machines or fraternities with android mates. All I can say is that a civilisation isn't sustainable if everyone does it.

>>9287947
Fraternising*

>>9287947
>future God knows how bad it will get.
That's what he's talking about mate. You don't have to pin it down to happening last year crikey.

>>9287964
I thought dfw did his shit in the 90s, but I guess he is alluding to our future too.

I can see laws passed to ban certain kinds of escapism, or at least limit them. Didn't the Chinese do something similar with Wow?

>>9287947
>The state might need to restrict access to pornography at some point.

Restricting access to pornography doesn't magically make men more attractive to women and make them want to procreate with them.

The reason the West isn't breeding is because women now have high status and high-paying jobs compared to the pre-60s era, which means the batch of eligible mates is miniscule.

When someone puts a quote next to a portrait-picture, people assume that the quote must contain some truth.
But what if you just say fuck you?

>"If you're doing it [masturbation] 20 times a day; if your primary sexual relationship is with your hand, something is wrong...

Okay. Well actually, mr. DFW, you dead gay retard, nothing is wrong.

The vast majority of people are happy, social creatures. The minority of disconnected losers who only get their kicks from the internet and porn would have been creepy losers in any era, and as for the even more minuscule minority of histrionic pussies who offed themselves, well, that's 0.01% of the stupid cunt population.

It's literally nothing.

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>>9287993
In a time of alpha females, only the apex-male is allowed to breed. This is the cause of the "beta uprising". Beta males are once again, being put in their place. The time of the true alpha has returned, soon, all young men will strive to become something greater than their mothers and fathers.

>>9287993
I'm assuming females will be using the Vr as well as males

>>9288036

Nah, women don't do anything for its own sake. They'll be out in the real world shaming guys who opt out of being providers for women.

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>>9288036
>>9288046
>implying women will bother wasting their time on VR porn addicts

>>9288046
Not sure what you mean "for its own sake" I think women have the potential to be somnambulist pleasure seekers just as men do.

I think you'd be kidding yourself if you didn't acknowledge that there's beta female subcultures right now.

>>9287947
>tfw you don't trust other people enough to either have a child with them or adopt one

How does one overcome this crushing doubt? I'm not that ugly, and I can manage to be funny and interesting, but that's it. Wether my next partner will be a woman or a man I will always be scared of losing her/him after some sort of sexual revival in his life. I'm truly scared about losing him/her only because at some point he will want to have mindless sex with people more attractive than me, and I alreayd know that I'm way to narcissist and demanding to accept such a situation.

What can I do?

>>9288067
Are you a boy(male) a girl(male) or a girl(female)?

>>9288075
I'm a 22yo male (male).

>>9287916
>Given to us by people who do not love us but want our money. And that's fine in low doses, but if it's the basic main staple of your diet, you're gonna die"
holy shit
how do i get out of this rut /lit/
last girl i tried dating friendzone me after she found out i was a bad kisser. do i need to get a 4/10 first ?

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>>9287916
Yes, only idiots are unaware that VR is the herald of the end times.

2070 prediction: video games are gonna have better graphics

>>9288092
>Don't have a girlfriend
>Therefore I must masturbate to internet porn all the time

Nice reasoning there, bucko

>>9287993
yep, you're right. women will do anything for a traditional guy they respect, including leaving their high-paying jobs.

however, men who are respectable have become vanishingly rare since the advent of second-wave feminism, and women would rather forgo having a family than have a family with a man they don't really respect. even if a businesswomyn finds some numale she ends up marrying, she won't actually want to have his kids, and he'll tell himself he never actually wanted kids either.

porn is more symptomatic of the death of masculinity than it was a cause, but it's still a powerful tool for placating any motivation or spirit somehow left in the 2017 man

>>9288094
Fix it

NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!

>>9287916
he literally predicted my existence from the last 12 months
I'm pretty sure this guy discovered 4chan and totally predicted how this was going to develop and that is why he killed himself
what do you guys think he would be up to if he was alive? shitposting 24/7? psychward? totally happpy after overcoming depression? or was he too far beyond saving?

>>9287916
>You're having a fantasy relationship with somebody who is not real

So? I'd rather be with my waifu than a real woman. 2D > 3D

>>9287947
>He's overreacting though
Is he? I'm pretty sure there most be a lot of people who masturbate 20 times a day and have never been involved in real sexual action
Didn't some guy die a few years ago after he wanked like 42 times or something like that?

>>9288124
>women will do anything for a traditional guy they respect, including leaving their high-paying jobs.

No, that's not quite right. Women will leaving their high status/high pay job to have children if the man they marry has higher status and higher pay than they do.

Which was my point. Since women now have way higher status and higher pay themselves, the amount of men that women could even imagine marrying or having children with is getting smaller and smaller every day.

So is once a day alright?

>>9288094
WE ARE JUST GONNA KILL'EM

>>9287932
maybe people don't want to talk to retards

>>9288014
>soon, all young men will strive to become something greater than their mothers and fathers.

No, we'll just sit in our rooms and play video games. Trying to start a family isn't worth it anymore.

>>9288159
I guess so, I usually need 3
I lasted a decent amount of time doing no fap, like a month, but is the most addictive thing in this world, and this comes from a guy who had problems with benzos n'stuff
Do you fap with porn or with imagination?

>>9288014
>tfw reading Nietzsche and realize even someone of his power level would be just an innocent naive child in today's world

>>9288158
>Women will leaving their high status/high pay job to have children if the man they marry has higher status and higher pay than they do.
no, that's not quite right. higher status, better job, etc. will sometimes be enough for a woman to respect a man enough to want to have his kids, but not always. there are plenty of well-off virgins, or at least well-off men who can't find women willing to marry them, because they're too stupid or awkward to entertain as a partner.

>>9288184
The only woman Nietzsche loved lived a very modern life: she was smart, well-read, libertine and economically free.
She ditched him in prder to have a free, sexually open life, and she succeded in that.
Nietzsche's struggle is ours too.

>>9288200
I hate relating to that edgelord so much

its over we men have loss

>>9288210
Read him more and you'll find out hat he was a beautiful soul, a great artist and basically a prophet of everything that has happened in the last 100 years.

Don't dismiss him only because teenagers misread him and start acting like sociopaths. He's better than that.

>>9288214
Maybe as sexual predators, but we've still got our brain, passion, art and craft.
Disregard women and produce something great through science or art.

>tfw you can't do this while shitposting on /lit/

>>9288214
I'M SICK OF THIS SHIT
I'M SICK OF LOSSING
Where the fuck is my vitality, my will, my bravery? How did I manage to sabotage myself this hard? Is it really just not within me anymore?
I'm fucking lossing it lads

>>9288214
>>9288236
we were always loss in the end..

>>9288230
>Disregard women and produce something great through science or art.
its hard when you realize you're only doing it to suppress your lack of love.
>>9288236
hang tight brother were all gonna make it

>>9287916
>if your primary sexual relationship is with your hand, something is wrong
so if you're single and masturbate once a week something is wrong?

>>9288240
You just need to find a good waifu and settle down

>>9288240
>its hard when you realize you're only doing it to suppress your lack of love.
There are other good reasons for doing it. Examine and contemplate them.

>>9288222
>Read him more and you'll find out hat he was a beautiful soul, a great artist and basically a prophet of everything that has happened in the last 100 years.
thats why it makes me so sad (that doesn't mean his writing style wasn't kind of edgy)

>>9288222
>just wait wait for the overman and support him, bros!
>the Y chromosome is literally going to stop existing
THEY CAN'T KEEP GETTING AWAY WITH IT

>>9288256
Life is suffering, it's now your turn to find meaning into that same suffering.

This is what he would have told you.

>>9288240
>its hard when you realize you're only doing it to suppress your lack of love.
others will relate and find love in it
the stars don't speak to the one who shines!

>>9288263
And what would DFW had told me?

>>9288248
i have and i still weep when i come home to an empty house
reeeeee WHY AM I SO FUCKING WEAK
WHERES MY WILL DRIVE

>>9287916
>strictly to stimulate a neurological response

The exact same could be said of having sex. He doesn't offer any rational difference between the two actions.

>>9287932
I'll talk to you :)

>>9288274
dfw btfo!!
fapping is the same as having sex goyim xD just chemicals in your brain bro that is what life is!!

>>9288268
And but so, stop masturbating to porn 24/7

>>9288273
>being this passionate
You're sitting on a pot of artistic gold. Study a craft and channel these raw feelings into it.
You will probably die penniless and borderline anonymous, but we're on /lit/: you should be able to be fine with that.

>>9288274
This is nitpicking by way of purposeful density

>>9288291
you're right m8. i just gotta put all my energies into a craft.

>>9288274
Unless you're sceptical of any sort of metaphysical statement, sex with someone you truly love will always be more meaningful and enriching than masturbation.

>>9288291
not the same guy but I'm too worried about my craft being complete autobographical boring and unoriginal, it has to have some kind of edge to it
is this what creative writing classes are for?

>>9288268
Something shallow.

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>>9288060
>Daily Mail

DFW is assuming that sexual gratification by itself is only legitimate when it is performed with other people. Assuming we're talking about single persons, which seems fair since this seems primarily like a sexual issue instead of an emotional one; is jerking off all the time any more harmful than fucking random people just as often?

Sex is sex. It's as basic of a retarded monkey impulse as hunger is. Who cares how you overcome it?

>>9288222
then why is he overlooked and dismissed

>>9288457
>Nietzsche
>overlooked and dismissed

Keep not reading 20th and 21st century philosophy

>>9288466
Non of them get him

Even when you are social it doesn't remove the crushing pressure to retreat. Even when you are social within a 'progressive', 'artistic' community, it does not remove the alienated feeling that causes this retreat. It is something inside of you that is causing this retreat, and it is the fear that gnaws at your will that is killing you. Potential not even 'will', but a respect for your place within the interconnection of all things.

>>ITT 4chan defends masturbating with more rigorous logic than anyone here can muster for their own sense of wellbeing

>>9287932
Aww I never thought about it that way :(

>>9287916
>not fracturing your life into Social Being and Virtual Being where you can enjoy the aspects of each end of the spectrum

>>9288497
What do you expect... Is the closest thing most of us have experienced to love and affection in years, some in their entire lifes

>>9287916
>but if it's the basic main staple of your diet, you're gonna die

I swear you can't make this shit up!

>>9288457
>>9288466
>>9288486
why is literally 90% of anything complex not understood by literally 90% of everybody?

fuck off.

>>9287947
we're in a state of overpopulation right now, and I'd think war or famine is more of an immediate and long-term threat to our species than pornography deterring us from procreating is

I personally don't want to bring a kid into this sick world which is the main thing driving me away from that in my mind right now

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>>9288263

>all suffering has meaning

>>9287931
kek

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>>9287940
ok sure have fun living in that cave of yours, friendo. virtual reality is not reality. it is an objectively inferior experience.

this is the problem with our modern society: people are afraid to say that something is WRONG and INFERIOR. i feel sorry for people like you, i really do. maybe one day, on your virtual deathbed high among the fractal clouds of your own design, you will understand.

>>9288589

the world is only as sick as the environment in which you encase yourself in

>your life< can't envelop the entire planet, only an insignificant portion of it, so find another plot if you're dissatisfied, really

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is this good?

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>>9287916
>tfw DFW will never be your college professor

Why even live?

>>9288565
>why is literally 90% of anything complex not understood by literally 90% of everybody?

Sad truth.

>>9287932

there is a difference between someone wanting to engage in stimulating conversation and someone just being lazy and wanting you to do their job man.

>>9288083
faggot

>>9288720
>reading comprehension

>>9288589
>We're

No, we're not. The west isn't overpopulated, it has skewed demographics but that's it

Thirld-World countries are overpopulated and still breeding like mad, and there's no cultural or political mechanism in those countries to stop that

>>9287993

>The reason the West isn't breeding is because women now have high status and high-paying jobs compared to the pre-60s era, which means the batch of eligible mates is miniscule.

Yes it would. Try noporn + nofap. After just 90 days of noporn + nofap, I developed razor-sharp focus, like being on adderall without any side-effects all the time, my initiative sky-rocketed, I was energized, slept well, looked healthier, started eating clean without any effort, my voice got deeper, I was happier in general, I became much wittier, I developed a seeming magnetism on women, got laid frequently, could slow down the flow of time through sheer will alone, could move small objects with my mind, could levitate in place, developed precognition, learned the secret name of G*d which allowed me to summon a Golem to do my bidding, unlocked the secret metaphysical truths of the cosmos and became the master of the universe and lord of all creation.

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>>9289582
excellent post

He's right, but he fails to recognise (perhaps from experience) that most men are resigned to the images, and don't prefer them

DFW was a chad lite. Smart, good looking in a frumpy kind of way. He had it all.

You can only get redpilled on sexuality from ugly motherfuckers like Houellebecq

>>9289582
Kek

>>9287940
your a retard

this bland faith in anything technological just because it is novel is not logical or sane... it's regressive technofetishism .... and how pathetic it is to write off any criticism of specific technologies with a "Muh ludditism"

>>9287993
>The reason the West isn't breeding is because women now have high status and high-paying jobs compared to the pre-60s era, which means the batch of eligible mates is miniscule.

that's a pretty stupid and facile explanation. Surely there must be a lot more factors at play

>>9287916
>more and more
What did he mean by this?

>>9289582
>it doesn' turn you into a god so it means it's worse than the alternative

When I do nofap it takes 3 hours+ to fall asleep

When I fap I wake up in the middle of a night with a raging boner and can't go back to sleep.

My brain is fucking crippled from this insomnia.

>>9289726
Hire an escort and finally sort that out, anon.

My hand fucks me better than expensive escorts.

What is the fucking issue? Why is women's masturbation celebrated but men can't?

Jesus I hate this world

>>9289702
Like what?

>>9289739

>What is the fucking issue? Why is women's masturbation celebrated but men can't?


Because men are still supposed to be the proactive ones and women the receptive ones, and this notion permeates our culture at every conceivable level, despite ardent efforts by some people to dispel this conviction, duh.

Thus, male masturbation is resignation to defeat, women's masturbation is of no significance whatsoever, so we may as well just celebrate that they fuck themselves with plastic penis electric dildos, because why not?

>>9289741

Increased income and social security nets have eroded the need to breed loads of children to take care of you when you're old and hyperindividualism has devalued establishing families in favor of personal advancement and development. Those are two I thought of immediately that I think are at least as good if not better explanatory theses.

Redpill (fuck I hate that word) thought is misguided. While I'll grant that it identifies certain explanations, it is myopic and puts much too much weight on these factors.

>>9289575
Places like England and Italy are definitely overpopulated. Japan too.

My imagination serves me better than porn though, I ejaculate faster by immersing myself in my own deviancy. Yet I still watch porn. Porn has to be a different beast. It's not more convenient self-satisfaction. It's dopamine cinema in the same sense as image boards, fast food information.

>>9289853
>It's dopamine cinema.
damn son hit the nail in the head.

>>9287940
You know, its funny, but i think Virtual Reality may be a FORM of luddism. It may actually do more to stifle scientific progress by destroying the forums on which scientific progress is based.

Maybe its better that scientists meet face to face and only publish their theories in science journals. Maybe the press shouldn't always be involved. Maybe businesses should not always be the first to hear about a scientific discovery.

Even if those business lay claim to those processes, i feel the ones who developed and researched those processes should have a say in what happens in regards to the technologies they have created.

>>9287947
I think most people are still going to be too embarrassed to hook themselves up to a sex machine.

God damn it, why am i talking to you?

>>9287995
I keep telling you something is going on! Why aren't you listening?

>>9289764
Both Italy and Japan are suffering from a massive demographic crisis.
>b-but the immigrants
Japan has virtually no immigrant, Italy has about 4% immigrants in his total population (and we already know that in 2 generations from now most of them will be in a demographic crisis too).

Go to central Africa, India and China if you want to see real overpopulation

>>9289906
>Both Italy and Japan are suffering from a massive demographic crisis.

Yeah, I'm sure some (((experts))) have convinced you so. (I'm only doing that semi-ironically.)

I'm talking about comfy population densities, and England/Italy/Japan are simply too densely populated.
And I don't give a shit about 3rd world, there are richer and more developed places with much lower pop. densities, so obviously a high density is not a requirement for a good crisis-free life.

And you can also find economists who think a slow and steady population decline (like in Japan) is not at all a catastrophe and can be fine in the long run.

>>9289932
>I'm talking about comfy population densities, and England/Italy/Japan are simply too densely populated.
>And I don't give a shit about 3rd world, there are richer and more developed places with much lower pop. densities, so obviously a high density is not a requirement for a good crisis-free life.
What cities are you talking about.
I've lived in Milan, Turin, Venice and a few minor cities in the last 10 years, and none of them were overcrowded.
You may have a point for Rome (which is overpopulated af) and few badly designed metropolis' in South Italy.

But really, objectively both Italy and Japan are in a demographic crisis, to the point where it will probably be necessary to adopt radical measures in a few years from now.

>>9289764
we can easily sustain 10x more humans on earth if we focus on sustainable food production
overpopulation is not even a meme

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_and_territories_by_population_density

>>9289943
I'm talking about the fact that you go to the beach in the summer and it's packed like like in a can of sardines.
Or the fact that to buy a decent size house/land you literally have to be 1% tier rich, while in places like the US/Australia (and even some Euro countries to a lesser extent) it's regular middle class stuff.


>>9289953
Again, it's not about mere surviving, but about having a decent 1st world life with long term sustainability.

>real
nice spook faggot

>>9289966
Also, England for example has barely any forests and wildlife left.
And that's not something you can fix with Pakis and "economic growth".

>>9289966
>Or the fact that to buy a decent size house/land you literally have to be 1% tier rich, while in places like the US/Australia (and even some Euro countries to a lesser extent) it's regular middle class stuff.

The opposite is true. In most major italian coties you can buy comfy apartments for 70-100k $.
You can match these prices in the US only if you're willing to live either in the hood or in rural areas.
Apart from Rome, Venice and the historic centre of Milan rent is affordable everywhere in Italy. I can rent a 2 room apartment in the historic centre of Milan for less than 500$. Match that in New York.

>>9287932
I often think the same

>>9289980
>apartment

Show me a decent suburban house+land in England/Italy that a middle class family can afford.

You're going to die anyway.

What is /lit/ opinion on porn tho? While i feel that pornhub mainstream forms some tasteless, decadent propaganda without meaning, but there is surely some K I N O hidden somewhere with aesthetic values. Erika Lust, Behind the green doors, some films with Ria sunn, or this new czech or whatever wave (kunkelova, busty teen kristi), idk need to ask /gif/

>>9289990
https://www.idealista.it/affitto-case/milano/centro-storico/?ordine=prezzo-asc

These are the apartments in one pf the most expensive blocs in Italy. You can afford them with a minimum wage job, if you've got a partner who has a minimum wage job the proce will be as low as 250$.
In other parts of the city the price drops drastically. 500$ is a pretty big apartment (at least 3 rooms), 200$ is a one roome apartment.

In the suburbs 500-600$ is enough to rent a 2stores house.

Again, housing is not a problem in Italy. I don't know about Japan though.

>>9289953
God I hate people like you. You focus on the mere numbers and not on the psychological effects of this. More sustainable food production for that many people means eating fucking cricket powder for protein. It means the absolute desertification of arable land to sustain high intensity farming. It means collapsing the fish stocks periodically without end. It means being placed in ultradense cities to minimize infrastructure and transport costs. I'm not going to live like that for more economic growth. Go fuck yourself.

>>9289968
lel

>>9290017

>2k17
>not being a utilitarian
>not realizing that as long as a human can scrape by with just a teeny bit more happiness than suffering, his life is a net plus and desirable
>not realizing that the satiation from cricket powder protein would ensure this minuscule amount of necessary happiness
>not realizing that it follows from this that we should enlarge human population 10x

Sounds like someone wants to face the death squads, you sure are bringing my net happiness down severely.

>>9287940
Seriously kill yourself if you cant tell how dumb this post is

>>9287932
That's not the same thing you cuck.

>>9290249
>cuck
loving that middle-income life, aren't you?

>>9290235

The terrifying thing is there are people that really think like this and they have power.

My takeaway from this thread is that we'd all be happier if we focused on basket weaving or wood carving instead of using the internet.

What about the people who have to do this by necessity? Or completely restrict their sexual urges because no one wants anything to do with them. This assume that everyone chooses or will choose to do that voluntarily, when many most likely have no better option.

>>9290282
Carving wooden dildos, yes.

>>9288092
How can one be a bad kisser? Legit question, what do you have to do?

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>>9290308
not female but i had my share of bad kisses

don't stiffen your lips
don't use your tongue like a propeller or even worse not at all
generally react to the other person
don't soak them in saliva but maintain a nice amount of sloppiness
don't always focus on the upper or lower lips
caress them both

>>9287932
Your comment is irrelevant to the OPost but I'll bite anyway.
Human informants are insightful and shape information to suit the situation. They can also spark interesting conversation and critcisms. Googling is absolutely no substitute for conversation.
However: when I was a kid, and my parents were fucking my brain up, I went through a few phase of trying to figure out how to interact with other people at school. One of the annoying thins I did for a couple of years was ask question about everything. Maybe you're just asking too many questions because you don't know how to strike and interesting conversation. Try bringing something to talk about and respecting your own knowledge.

>>9288952
>>9289700
>>9289888
>>9290247
triggered luddites unsurprisingly incapable of argumentation

>>9287947

>Worrying about humanity ceasing to reproduce.

Read your Schopenhauer buddy.

>>9287993

Redpill me on this. Are there any serious writers who've written about "female hypergamy"? Or is it all just reddit users and /pol/?

>>9290746
Sounds very difficult.

>>9291410
it isnt. just imitate your partner and don't think about it too much. normally it comes naturally.
i had a girl that needed three months to learn it but normally thats as bad as it gets. if she really sucks at kissing just tell her: open your mouth, use your tongue, whatever

>>9289198
are you autistic?

>>9288014
cringe

>>9287993
>>>return of betas

>>9290011
your own imagination is the real kino. porn has never done it for me. i just find it grotesque and not arousing to watch.

>>9290014
>tfw i pay $700 for 14 m2

>>9289752
>male masturbation is resignation to defeat

Or how about the default? How can you be defeated when you were never in the game

>>9287916
What are you supposed to do if you're too ugly for love? For me it's either masturbate, or never experience an orgasm in your life. Those are the only two options.

Why were the ancients so much smarter than us when it comes to sex? They understood the importance of making it taboo, and of enforcing monogamy.

>>9287916
how does one even jerk it 20 times a day? get a fucking job.
if you're not getting laid jerking it hard once/maybe twice a day is healthy. as for his claim that it's a neurological response it's also a fucking physical one.

>>9295188
prostitution

>>9295214
Because survival was still chiefly a struggle for them

>>9295235
And also really shitty birth control, so if a woman had sex and got pregnant out of wedlock she'd be screwed for life

>>9290014
Your own link starts with 25m2 for €550 and 50m2 for €700. If you're that French guy from Milan who keeps spreading the nonsensical bullshit about dirt cheap housing you should kys yourself. A tiny studio in a shitty burb might seem like a palace to you, but it doesn't to most people.

>>9295226
>get a fucking job
Lmaoing @ you, wagie.

>>9288256
>>the Y chromosome is literally going to stop existing
exaggeration
we really don't know what will happen and the Y chromosome has significant self-repair properties.
but the mutation rate of Y chromosomes is significant

>>9287947
Have you heard of automatization? The state will survive, of humanity i'm not so certain.

>>9287932
this desu

>>9295226
jesus you're a fucking brainlet of the highest order

>>9287931
fpbp

>>9289966
In Australia if you are making less than $100,000 a year you are considered low income earners and you will never be able to afford a house.

Please don't use Australia as an example of normality. Our housing situation is so ridiculous. I have prettyuch abandoned any hope of buying a house in Australia in my lifetime.

>>9287931

hehe