>The first thing that must strike any outside observer is

>>9268828
Socialism at the time he was writing had become an intellectual accessory, i.e. people believed it to be fashionable without carrying its logical consequences into their everyday lives.

The criticism still holds in the West, for the most part

limpwristed snowflakes have always been attracted to weak nu male ideaology

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>>9268892
but you're strong and masculine, which is why you're posting here in support of the men that dominate you.

>>9269074
>in support
it's a mark of the beta cucks that come here from leftypol and reddit that if you're not with them you're for unbridled capitalism

they often fall into patterns of simplistic dichotomous thinking due to being autistic and stupid.

>>9269074
>the bad weak autistic commies are stupid and dichotomous
le example of that which you le criticize face.

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>this describes all of my twitter "friends" from LA or NYC

>>9268850
>The criticism still holds in the West, for the most part
might have something to do with everybody in the west belonging to the middle class now

>>9270236
That's undeniable false. Class still exists. You just have to know how to see it.

>>9268828
>>9268892
>>9269074
>>9269090
"Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism, as I understand it." - George Orwell

What a nu-male cuck, I bet he was prepping the bull inbetween cleaning his rifle and writing Homage to Catalonia

>>9270254
are you being ironic?

>>9268828
What is this from nigga, I wanna go see this guffin shit in context.

Or not I guess I don't need to. I can just read other stuff

>>9268828
Hmmmm... I don't know.

>>9268828
He was calling out starbucks socialists before starbucks was a thing.

>>9270314
I remember when I learned that starbucks socialist are the only type of socialists left. weak cucks who sit in the corner head down in shame while they're humiliated day in and day out by proud black womyn. that day i realized I had to be strong and believe in things like strength, honor, duty. in order to be a man you must give yourself to a man's ideology. that was the day I took the redpill.

>>9270246
"class" doesn't have the same meaning when you can live a better life just being alive in the U.S on government benefits than even the richest 100 years ago.
Literature simply moves too slowly to catch up. So does political ideology. The truth is that the banking system and the stuffing of low interest banking monies has overwhelmed all notions of 'freedom', we're merely forced as a society to run up the credit card by the weakest among us forcing us toward an ever more socialist state.

And when we run out of money and have to face 'austerity' measures like the europeans eventually did, all that means is more excuses to keep the system fitted towards being more 'compassionate' and socialist in nature(i.e give poors more money).
People who write literature usually don't understand basic economics so they won't understand that capitalism while initially cruel led to better outcomes than any other financial system, forces people to work and compete on a much higher level.
It's a lesson that not a lot of people are receptive to because it means discipline, hard work, and sacrifice in both the short and long term but the results are always inarguable.

That's why OP's quote is so prescient. The people who most desire ideas like socialism are the people who already live comfortable lives and want everyone else to be comfortable like them. They don't want to make life better for others, they just want to feel better about their comfortable life right now by using others people money to solve the issue instead of working to help those around them themselves.

I don't think it's a mistake that most people who support conservative monetary policies are in hard working industries like truck driving. They sacrifice everyday to make ends meet and understand that sacrifice is necessary to live, so they want a goal to work towards so they eventually can have an easier time. The eventual goal of comfortable socialist is to feel good about their opinion that a short term, makeshift solution was applied and that they the kind of gentle overseer supported compassion and understanding of others.

Both are incorrect at different times. There's a point where spending too little on social welfare is simply cruel, and spending too much on advancing economics yields less benefit. Who gets to say who's right? Which is the better logical decision, not the emotional one?

>>9270346
I think your being glib, but I've really become completly disillusioned with any kind of "compassionate" political ideology.

>>9268828

How can George Orwell be any more based? He's probably one of the only intellectually honest socialists out there.

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>>9270346

This just strikes me as trading one incoherent political theory for another. Especially if you base your personal political beliefs, which should be understood as a marriage of moral ends and practical means, on what are essentially emotional or stylistic positions.

Consider that your statement on political virtue is without content in regards to anything but a negation of the moral worth of your opposition.

>>9270370
>I have not read any theory and history of socialism and I must post on a thread about a demsoc critiquing his fellow socialists

>>9270370
Quality of life is not class.

>>9270396
Not so much as "one of the only intellectually honest socialists" as much as "one of the only ones you actually read, and even so, because you thought he wasn't a leftist".

There are plenty of critiques of sovietic totalitarianism, a lot of them actually contemporary to said totalitarianism, you just avoid them because you're such a meme loving fuck that you can only acquire your knowledge from infographics at this point

>>9270594
>>9270632
bernouts are the easiest triggers lmoa

>>9270370
A buffet of meaningless nonsense

Orwell was a socialist btw

>>9270686
Ah it makes sense if that post was meant to trigger and not a sincere opinion

>>9270703
So were Adolf Hitler and Bernie Sanders. 'Socialist' is a meaningless word at this point.

>>9270686
>>9270780
>TWO unprompted mentions of Sanders

Someone's triggered.

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>>9268828
Socialist reform when? Why are all socialist groups dominated by these people?

>>9270799
I didn't even see the other guy. I was just reaching for a well known socalist figure in contemperary politics to illustrate my point about 'socalist' being vague to the point of meaninglessness.

>>9270813
I don't see how Bernie makes the word meaningless when he is an actual one running on a social democracy platform

>>9270823
Because Orwell, Sanders, and Hitler are triameterically opposed in ideology. Orwell was a compsaionate individualist, Sanders a welfare nanny, and Hitler was Hitler.

Any definition of "socialism" that doesn't include the abolition of private property is a meaningless definition that needs to be thrown under the bus. Socialism = social ownership of the means of production.

Welfare state capitalism is simply the last temporary bandaid of the "Social Democrats" before they gave up reformism altogether in favor of deregulated capitalism, or "Third-Way Social Democracy" (is there a worse political position than this, my god?)

>>9270648
booty blasted
everyone has fun reading orwell

>>9268828
I think it's useless to talk about this failed form of socialism when a post-scarcity economy is coming straight at us and we need to find out how we're going to deal with it now.

>>9270848
And the dumbest post in the thread award goes to....


....this fucking guy.

>>9270869
don't see an argument there buddy

>>9268828
He doesn't mean anything except what the person paying him wants to say.

>>9270900
We're heading towards a Malthusian crisis, not a post-scarcity utopia.

>>9270832
As I already said Orwell and Bernie don't differ much in their ideology, only the details.

>welfare nanny
Like I said, another facet of social democracy that Bernie is trying to implement. It is still compatible with his socialist tendencies

>>9271023
Orwell fought for the anarchists in Spain, Bernie is a career politician who fears violence. I'd say those are fairly large differences.

>>9270780

Hitler really wasn't a socialist in any sense of the word. He conceived of international organization along racial, rather than economic lines.

Be honest anon, did you only think that because 'national socialism' has socialism in the name? I promise I wont judge.

>>9270913

Strongly agree

>>9271070
If you count "robbing the jews and seizing thier homes and buisnesses to benefit the germans" as an implimenation of "abloshing private property to benefit the prole" he's a fucking socialist hero.

>>9271093

kek

but you get the point, he intended to purge or enslave the jews and slavs at all levels of the economy for the benefit of the 'Ayrians', who he figured would exist in a stratified, semi-traditionalist society. The world would be inherently classed on race, and even within the 'best race', society would look pretty similar to what we see today, with a mass of workers and a smaller, more affluent elite.

>>9269090
>>9269161
bump

I don't get it, I know Orwell was a socialist but it seems like all he ever wrote about was how shitty socialism is.

>>9271064
Wow it is almost as if different people can take the same ideology and do different things based on it. Democratic socialism doesn't insist everyone do stuff like Orwell or Bernie

Is Road to Wigan Pier his best work on socialism?

>>9270648

Are you joking? Are you not familiar with the intellectual climate of the 1930s-1950s? Virtually every leftist was in bed with the Soviet Union until reports of Stalin's gulags became widespread throughout the West. Don't project.

>>9271161
There was nothing wrong with that, the USSR was an authentic hope for a world socialist revolution, I would have supported it too. However, it was doomed from the moment any European revolutions failed to take hold, and the Soviets had to redefine themselves from "strategically holding on until developed western countries led the way" to the vacuous idea of a single socialist state, which had no possible way to affect the global capitalist mode of production.

>>9271070
Eh Strasserism was an influential wing of the Nazism (before they were purged by Hitler). Strasserists were most definitely socialists. The Nazis also came to power partly by winning over converts from the Far Left. Your dichotomy between race and economics doesn't quite work either. The Nazis saw identity as the only way to overcome the death struggle between labor and capital. The "socialism" in National Socialism is not arbitrary.