>There are people on /lit/ who claim you can be non-ideological

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>>9256178
You very much can though, there's a distinct difference between pretending as if you can operate socially and intellectually without operating through in pre-constructed avenues of thought and those who adopt a prescribed framework and accept all its axioms a priori without giving due analysis and consideration to your own acceptance of reality outside your front.

Its the difference between being an intellectual and a mere emulator.

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>>9256215
Empty words.
According to you one can go against psychological reality.

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>>9256234
I what way does asking yourself "which of these mutually exclusive propositions do I think best corresponds with my experience?" contradict with psychological reality?

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>>9256250
You seem to be using a different definition of ideology as I do, I do not claim you cannot ask yourself "which of these mutually exclusive propositions do I think best corresponds with my experience?"

I do claim that this is still ideology, and based on psychology not independently chosen but influenced by groups of people you either affiliate with or not

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>>9256271
I don't believe thats enough to legitimately declare it ideology. Ideology necessitates not merely isolated propositions but superstructures of thought in which it goes beyond isolated rational descriptions but rather an intuitive vision of reality.
In a certain sense I agree with you that it is not possible to be strictly non-ideological but I think it is necessary to remain comitted to resistence and negation of ideology and an examination of ontology is a key component of such a project. While we may not be able to think outside of the cognitions which we are socially pre-ordained either from our cultural background or language itself we still in the end of the day are immersed in the Real to which we can with effort and intellectual integrity measure the contradctions with our accepted beliefs against with.

Ideology should always be a dirty word is my point.

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>>9256271
>not independently
Even if it was, cognitive biases play their part making non-ideology impossible
But I feel that I and some on /lit/ do not hold the exact same definition of "ideology"

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>>9256300
Hmmm... I can agree slightly with you but it seems we hold different ideologies

Thanks for the conversation

>>9256178
I think you misuse the word "non-ideological" from what I can tell (you have put forward no definition/argument why everything is inside ideology). Perhaps you are thinking of "influenced"? Yes, everyone is influenced by something/someone. No, not everyone is an ideologue going by the normal defintion.

>>9256382
Good post in a shit thread. OP doesn't realize how difficult being an ideologue is. Unless OP means everyone is a ideologue of their own ideology which is fucking stupid.

>>9256382
>>9256386
He's taking the Zizekian conception of ideology which is that there are no truly authentic beliefs but rather that we always consciously or subconsciously operate in derived structures of thought.
The issue however is that he does not go on to recognize Zizek does not believe that this implies both that everyone is an ideologue and that negation of ideology is not possible.

There are definately individuals who are more ideological than others.

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>>9256382
What do you lot mean then when saying non-ideological then? I'll give my definition of ideology and it is simply ideas, beliefs, goals, expectations, and motivations which individuals hold.

I don't see what ideologue has to do with it.

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>>9256419
So when I see someone claim they are non-ideological I do think similar along these lines:
>Perhaps you are thinking of "influenced"? Yes, everyone is influenced by something/someone.
But both consciously and unconsciously.

And I claim that even without outside influences there are still processes in the human mind that influence your ideas, beliefs and so on and so on.

You cannot be free from ideology so to speak.

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OP you're as dumb as an Orangutan

You don't even know what ideology is

>>9256435
Don't be mean to Orangutans, they're actually clever

>>9256435
>You don't even know what ideology is
So tell me then.

>>9256459
Ideology: Subconscious of Society.

>>9256494
Ok, from there, what is non-ideological then?

>>9256508
disregard axioms

>>9256234

>implying that people had ideologies during the Stone Age

>>9256538
Why wouldn't they have ideas, beliefs, goals, expectations, and motivations?
You (as well as a lot of /lit/) and I have different definitions.

If we follow this >>9256494 instead of my definition why wouldn't Stone Age societies have subconsciousness? If they didn't why would we have it now?

>>9256555
neolithic societies developed primitive forms of religion as their subconscious.

having an abstract understanding of the seasonal cycle and then making offerings and giving worship to the Spring God(dess) in order to make Springtime come around and replace Winter isn't quite ideology.

>>9256604
>isn't quite ideology.
You need to explain why. To me we can make a difference between ideology and religion, but that would be a social construction. In reality - I think - they are the same.

I say that because I look at it from a psychological perspective. Hopefully simpler put: the brain we use for ideology is the same as the one used religion. Differently put: the same psychological processes that underpin religion underpin ideology.

>>9256644
>>9256604
It is a very reductionistic way to look at it perhaps.

>>9256494
HAH!

You're dead wrong kiddo. It isn't OP who doesn't know what ideology is - it's you (not that I actually know what OP thinks ideology is, but your definition is terrible).

>>9256215
No, you can't.

Even to believe that one can reject ideology is to have an ideology surrounding what ideology is and the method(s) for its rejection.

Not to mention, your mind is not the source of your belief, nor that of your compatriots - you all cling to the ideas of others who tell you you can, and should, reject ideology.

Which is, itself, an ideology.

>>9256941
So is the observation that objects in motion stay in motion ideology?

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>He's not non-ideological
>He can't even fathom being non-ideological.

What, are you some kind of slave or something?

>>9256929
>not that I actually know what OP thinks ideology is
I said ideas, beliefs, goals, expectations, and motivations that an individual has. Mainly the first two, the other half is straight from Wikipedia.

>>9256300
this

>>9256300

uhhhhh this looks like harold bloom?

Look, I just dont know what is my ideology
The ones that I see are all useless mumbo jumbo
Do you want me to be what? A commie? An anarchist? A neo-con? Non of those seem legit to me, I'm sorry, but everyone in politics are pieces of shit, and is not really that much their fault, thats how democracy or the system or whatever you want to call it works. I dont think there is an "ideology" that will fix anything. I think everyone should just forget about civilization an go live in rural places, but no one wants because it is boring, there are no bookstore there so I'm staying here, trying to enjoy myself, minding my own bussines and hopefully not doing any harm to people since their lifes are probably even worse than mine.